Guild Wars 2

Unless you want to be a heal bot in pvp go with a different class. As for endgame pve our damage is being nerfed to be like all the other classes with nothing to compensate so you would have a much easier time and still do about the same on any other class

sephiroth.4217:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Sorry to dissapoint, i have played both warr and against a warr as well, the latter all the time. If you’re so sure I know nothing then feel free to show me meta warr build that does not use defense line and/or stances. I dare you.

Only if you show me a Druid build that doesn’t use pets.

I’ll show you mine if you show me yours first

Well I’m excited

Feanor.2358:

thrag.9740:

3.) Elementalist: Make a decision, does ele damage scale with hit box or not? Because your meteor shower nerf just made us move towards things like wildfire, lightning orb, and phoenix, additionally skills like icebow 4 and lightning storm still do scale damage with hitbox size. Picking a single skill and putting an internal cooldown on it is inconsistent with the class. Either all skills should have internal cool downs or none of them.

My personal suggestion: Put an internal cool down on every skill, but buff its damage accordingly. Its stupid for 1 class to dominate large hit box, and then another to dominate small hitbox. Balance it so eles do the same damage regardless of hitbox size, and make sure that damage is competitive with condi ranger.

I’ll reply here, being an ele main, but it’s not just about eles.

There’s a big problem with the concept of competitive damage. Condi ranger is soooo much easier to play than ele. You don’t lose 10% damage when something sneezes in your general direction. You don’t lose 10% damage when you stop moving for a second. You don’t have to ground-target your skills just behind your target, or change distance to it constantly so you maximize the damage of your skills. You can simply flank in melee range and you’re golden.

Balancing the damage of both to competitive levels creates a choice between the two only for people who can play them at a near-perfect level. For anyone else (and that’s the majority of the player base), picking the harder class is simply a poor choice. They are limiting their own efficiency and hindering their own groups.

How about give these players an actual choice that actually matters? Because, let’s face it, whether qT take eles or condi rangers would only change their clear times, and only by very little. However, a player of lesser skill could potentially choose between an easier to play class for more consistent results and a harder to play class for better potential results. Taking a risk, betting on their own play. Now, that’s an actual choice.

And this doesn’t just apply to eles and condi rangers. Condi engi has the same problem compared to much easier dps builds. And there are other easy dps builds on thief and guard too, which produce far too much dps far too reliably. Not to mention the condi ps.

There has to be a bigger gap in dps to justify considering a harder class. Current balance only looks at final damage numbers. No, that’s not how you balance.

^this

Mutaatti.2789:

Spartacus.3192:

no thanks…. don’t want to see shooutbow war, cleric/cele ele, Mercenary Necro/Mes back again.

yeah no thanks.

As i suggested, add all amulets and class restriction to ranked! I want to see those wacky builds and some bunker others than ele, and seeing how ppl would learn to play other than just “whackwhack, Im power warrior/necro/DH/scrapper!”

Only amulet that wouldnt be added back would be celestial because one class shouldnt be able to do everything.

Nope if you want all amulets then it’s all amulets. Ele isn’t the only class that used cele and it has recieved quite a few nerfs since then.

Bring back ALL amulets

Except multiple classes could use the same amulet. If you’re going through all this trouble why not restrict only one amulet per class rather than one amulet per match. All amulets btw not just the ones you personally like, can’t have your cake and eat it too

Lordrosicky.5813:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Every amulet back except Cele amulet (it allows to much hybrid stuff, while we need more non-hybrid builds) wouldnt be bad I think.

Agreed.

And I dont think people enjoy non-tanky amulets because you just insta die in this meta. Let people run around and have fun with their sustain specs if they want to give up dps for it.

Only reason they removed the amulets was to make their failed esports better to watch. It failed anyway. So lets get some fun back in the back. Sentinal amulet please come back.

This is one of the MANY benefits we can get now esports is no longer killing this game.

Edit: and it shouldnt be unranked and hotjoin only. That is a ton of extra coding work to enforce and its pointless anyway. let people play ranked with their bunker guardian if they want to.

Insta dying to thief/mesmer spikes out of stealth really isnt fun….

+1

Revert the nerf to base healing and it would be fine. Dedicated healers shouldn’t be a thing in this game anyway

Most specs are good across all content just depending on your play style. Some are easier solo than others if that’s your preference. As you said you like playing dps I wouldn’t recommend ele as it’s been pushed into the healer/support role in pvp.

Malchior.5732:

Keadron.9570:

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

Jan. 26 was the nerf.
The original change I meant was the specialization update, which allowed Eles to take Diamond Skin without sacrificing too much. My bad for not specifying.

Thank you for the clarification

Malchior.5732:

Keadron.9570:

Malchior.5732:

Keadron.9570:

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

Everyone knew it should be toned down, though I honestly didn’t want it changed for fear of what they would do to it. When they first previewed it it had the icd which was fine, then when the update went live it had been turned into an on hit trait. why anyone would think that was a good idea is beyond me.

Keadron.9570:

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Actually that was a choice of preference. Earth for damage reduction or water for healing. Then air or fire and tempest. Water wasn’t mandantory. DS didn’t destroy ele counter. It only worked when above 90% health. Anyone who ran up and dumped condi right off the bat deserved to die. I also ran Necro part of the time (still do) and killed quite a few ele just from knowing when to bomb and when not. Then as a Necro I tended to stick to team fights back then

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

I think you missed my point as I was referring to Current state not past. Actually the whole post was about the nerfs effect on current Ele. Such as when DS was changed was also when the removal of defensive amulets started, like cele, and more boon corruption was added. Defensive amulets are gone and water is still mandantory

Just out of curiosity why were you running flesh worm at that time? Reaper was out then…. if I recall correctly I was running a hybrid mm reaper build with condi, increased def, and lifesteal at that time. Unless you were really ganked there was no reason to run. Reaper was insane at that time 1v1 1v2 1v3

The point was to explain the perspective of the nerfs. Reaper did not exist at the time. Diamond Skin was added in like 2013 and the specialization update was months before HoT.

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

Wolfric.9380:

The change is like this. A large downgrade of options and power in sigils. Shure this leads to more balance again scrapping diversity. I don´t know who is making desicions but diversity is the main key for long term exitement. Games without options can be fun for two days then i discard them.

^this

Malchior.5732:

Keadron.9570:

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

Everyone knew it should be toned down, though I honestly didn’t want it changed for fear of what they would do to it. When they first previewed it it had the icd which was fine, then when the update went live it had been turned into an on hit trait. why anyone would think that was a good idea is beyond me.

Keadron.9570:

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Actually that was a choice of preference. Earth for damage reduction or water for healing. Then air or fire and tempest. Water wasn’t mandantory. DS didn’t destroy ele counter. It only worked when above 90% health. Anyone who ran up and dumped condi right off the bat deserved to die. I also ran Necro part of the time (still do) and killed quite a few ele just from knowing when to bomb and when not. Then as a Necro I tended to stick to team fights back then

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

I think you missed my point as I was referring to Current state not past. Actually the whole post was about the nerfs effect on current Ele. Such as when DS was changed was also when the removal of defensive amulets started, like cele, and more boon corruption was added. Defensive amulets are gone and water is still mandantory

Just out of curiosity why were you running flesh worm at that time? Reaper was out then…. if I recall correctly I was running a hybrid mm reaper build with condi, increased def, and lifesteal at that time. Unless you were really ganked there was no reason to run. Reaper was insane at that time 1v1 1v2 1v3

It was balance. Year round

zealex.9410:

Keadron.9570:

Personally if they devoted more resources to balance I wouldn’t care what content they decide to focus on

i mean last balance patch made almost all dpsclasses viable in pve give them but yea more focus on balance wouldn’t hurt

There’s so many underused or just bad traits on all classes that could be changed to make so many different builds. Balance is one thing that benefits everyone who plays the game regardless of mode. Just wish it was focused on more

A Necro main who doesn’t like diamond skin?! Well I think I might die of shock! A well played bunker tempest couldn’t be beat 1v1 really, which is kind of why it was a bunker. But guess what! That was with defensive amulets. Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much. It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly. Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

Personally if they devoted more resources to balance I wouldn’t care what content they decide to focus on

After the next 10 buffs it could be slightly better kitten than it is now

Please don’t use the excuse “it was to break the bunker meta” removing all the defensive amulets did that.
In this instance P stands for those complaining about ele, while A stands for uh… whomever was responsible for the changes.

P: “Ele has low health but it’s strong against my condi build that has no power!”
A: “We’ll butcher diamond skin by making it an on hit with icd, so they will have to run water too.”

P: “Ele used protection to survive my burst!”
A: “We’ll add more boon conversion to use their defense against them!”

P: “Ele used an aura to reflect my attack back at me!”
A: “We’ll reduce the duration of all their auras.”

P: “I auto attacked an ele but it healed itself and it’s teammate!” (Obviously wasn’t a thief)
A: “Don’t worry we’re reducing base healing to really drive home that we want dedicated healers/supports rather than just nerfing healing to allies.”

P: “Ele did more damage than me to a Large Immobile Target!”
A: “Who needs a risk vs reward ratio? We’ll reduce their best damage skills like lava font, meteor shower, and air overload to be more on par with other classes. But don’t worry they will still take more effort and be the squishiest dps. Have to leave them Shatterstone though cause we’ve buffed it 23 times and still don’t know why it’s kitten.”

Yes I’m annoyed and venting. I do not want to play support in pvp! I realize if you’re a great player you can play a handicapped dps and be decent but does that really make it ok?

origin.1496:

They need to go back to the Guild Wars 1 method. Attunement swapping in GW2 is THE most difficult aspect to balance in the game imo. What if we got a 2-handed weapon in expac 2? That’s 20 skills coming straight from 1 weapon, 4 attunements. Now balance each of those 20 skills according to trait lines, trait line combinations, and runes perhaps. That just sounds like a nightmare even to me. And suddenly we get nerfed to kitten, again, making us have a semi-useless weapon in all attunements.
Abandon the 4 attunements in my opinion and let us pick from 1 attunement pre-combat, 2 possibly, and give us a weapon swap for some customization that the ele has never actually experienced. Add a special mechanic or feature to each attunement itself if you’re picking from 1 of the 4, so that it’s affects are felt. Such as if you’re in the fire attunement, burning dealt lasts 20% longer and you deal 5% more damage to burning foes. There is your DPS/condi line as an example.

I feel forced into D/F in sPvP, and I know that I can easily go D/W. I do both, but focus is just better, and equally boring. I don’t know how many people have played with the warhorn, but it’s extremely fun to play! But more importantly, I am forced into Earth, Water, and Tempest otherwise my entire team flames at me for not playing the proper ele build. That’s what I truly dislike. And my team is right. I feel that I am inclined to play that sole role because it’s the staple role. I desperately want to play in fire attunement again, but I lose out on so much survivability from water, or earth, that I get stomped and it’s just no fun.

I also believe ele base stats need a rework. If ANet is tired of us playing the healing/support bot in sPvP (possibly WvW. I don’t WvW), let’s rework the stats some so that we at least have some decent HP to stay alive without choking us into earth/water trait line. I just feel that arcane should be the niche trait line for such things, not earth AND water. Make the ele’s base stats celestial since the 4 attunements are already a dead giveaway of that. One attunement for dps+ condi, one attunement for heavy “single” target DPS (air seems to have lost it’s focus on being a single target heavy dps in a majority of the skills), one attunement for healing, one attunement for some tankiness and survival capability. By default the ele’s mechanics are a celestial stat profession, but without the base celestial stats.

The 4 attunement are fun. Anet isn’t tired of us playing support in pvp, look at the nerfs and you’ll see. Low hp but strong against condition builds not smart enough to mix in power? Butcher diamond skin into an “on hit” with icd, making water mandatory. Ele relies on boons? More boon corruption added. Nerf base healing to be more reliant on heal power.The list goes on. There is a reason most ele run support. It’s all that’s left. If ANet wanted us able to play a different role they would change it

Doam.8305:

It’s changed

The purpose of each class used to be your own personal taste because they’d be viable in any mode. Every class could be a condi, power, hybrid, and so forth and you’d always get the job done.

The raids hit and with raids they slapped trinity elements and thus some classes became better at being tanks, healers, and so forth. It’s not even elitism as a casual group can’t just fill up with randoms and head of to town. They need people to fill roles now and some classes outshine others greatly.

If all classes were just as capable as the other classes in each role though with different mechanics and methods for doing it then we wouldn’t see the rise of these posts asking for pure role classes.

Elite specs killed a part of the game because they completely changed the nature of the classes. The elites have particular roles behind them while the core classes did not its rather plain and obvious. If they want to see pre HoT numbers again in this game they need to reverse course with pushing roles with elites.

^This

Remove the on hit from diamond skin so water isn’t as mandatory in pvp for more offense
Remove either some of the long cast times or delay, currently an interrupt builds wet dream

Have you played ele in pvp without getting flamed for not playing support. Wish Tempest was given more damage with self sustain but no team heals
They are forced as the elite specs are superior to core

Crab Fear.1624:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can already heal a ton with a druid or ele spec’d out appropriately. For example, I’m not all that good at it and I can keep a team of 5 alive through the poison at Tom in the uncategorized fractal. I imagine skilled players can do even more healing.

Also make rangers, rangers again and ele’,s eles again…not healers LOL

Yes rangers and eles again plz! Let healers be a new class not forced on classes that don’t want it

The absolute lack of jumping puzzles would be great

Remove the “on hit” from diamond skin to remove reliance on soldiers and remove water from being mandatory in pvp

Balance health across all classes

Reduce cast times or time before skills actually work, currently any interrupt builds wet dream especially staff.

Go back and look through the underperforming traits

Wish they would change more honestly

Ayrilana.1396:

Keadron.9570:

In the beginning gw2 was advertised with no holy trinity. Every class had a way of healing so never a need for a dedicated healer. Play your way. Which is what drew me to the game to begin with.
Now we have a trinity, Anet even further increased the need for a dedicated healer in certain content by lowering the base healing of all classes across the board. Added raiding and after saying it wasn’t meant for everyone and nobody would be forced to play it added legendary armor exclusive to raids.
So yes I would say the game has lost its identity.

Healer is only ever needed in raids. It’s not anywhere else in the game. For those that don’t raid, they can play the game as they wish without needing to use the trinity.

There shouldn’t be a dedicated healer/support in any game mode. That isnt the way the game was advertised back before HOT and to change that is losing part of its identity to be just like other games with the trinity. Every class has it’s own way to mitigate/avoid damage and an ability to heal. Also see support in pvp

Certain classes can’t carry as well as others. This would just give x player an advantage over the others. Or is the idea? After all the debate I’m not sure if this is supposed to help or give certain classes a nice buff to be even stronger than the ones who already can’t carry

A front line dps spec for ele. If it’s another support, I won’t be buying

In the beginning gw2 was advertised with no holy trinity. Every class had a way of healing so never a need for a dedicated healer. Play your way. Which is what drew me to the game to begin with.
Now we have a trinity, Anet even further increased the need for a dedicated healer in certain content by lowering the base healing of all classes across the board. Added raiding and after saying it wasn’t meant for everyone and nobody would be forced to play it added legendary armor exclusive to raids.
So yes I would say the game has lost its identity.

As an ele I hate the balance. Just saying

Why I don’t play? As an ele main… after nerfs, amulet removals, etc all there is left is a play style that makes me grind my teeth. Don’t get me wrong I have plenty of other characters I could use but when I don’t like the entire mode with my main the desire to play it vanishes.

Have a vid of it in action?

Einlanzer.1627:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Einlanzer.1627:

I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.

They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.

Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.

Serious question here, since I’m not a dungeon person.

Why aren’t fractals considered a dungeon? They’re both 5 man instanced content where you beat a boss and have a bit of story.

They are. They just, IMO, aren’t enough on their own. Having one super dungeon that sits in the main player hub isn’t going to compensate for having a lot of other large, thematic world dungeons that players can venture out to.

With that said, like I said above, it’s less about the dungeons themselves and more about how the professions work in PvE. There simply isn’t a good enough role structure to make small group content as engaging and tactical as it needs to be.

I completely disagree on the need for roles. Forcing players to suddenly play a specific role after 4 years of being able to play the way they like would drive more players away than bring in. After ele was forced into the support/healer role I completely stopped playing pvp. The game was marketed for “play your way” and “no need for designated roles” which was one of its largest draws and what made it stand out. GW2 is already headed down this path but then I don’t see any of my friends left playing it either.

MethaneGas.8357:

Gwaihir.1745:

A lot of these posts are complaints about death shoud not matching up to reaper shroud.

Do guardian virtues match up in any way to DH virtues?
Do Mesmer shatters match up in any way to continuum split?
Etc.

Thread has become a place for people to cry not discuss balance.

The thing is… DH virtues didn’t remove anything from DH – they just got a straight up flat buff. They didn’t “lose” or “sacrifice” anything in terms of their virtues. Their F1 was buffed like hell. F2 heals like crazy and is a leap, F3 is a long @$$ block. Literally buffed.

Mesmer’s also didn’t lose anything. They were just gifted an additional shatter – F5. They lost nothing, just gained an extra shatter.

Rangers gain OP pets and cele form – straight up buffs.

Necro? Necro loses Deathshroud. It’s not like we gain an F2 for Reaper shroud. You lose 5 skills and gain 5 new, different ones, and that’s the difference. Sure, Reaper Shroud can be considered a buff, but we lose everything Deathshroud had to offer. And as it stands, there’s no reason why Deathshroud shouldn’t be buffed to provide a viable alternate playstyle. And it does provide a different playstyle but it’s not AS viable… which is why Reaper is the most honest of Anet’s elite specs – “providing a different playstyle” and not straight up buff… Anyway…

And people ARE discussing balance. Aside form discussing Necros in teamfights, Necro’s survivalbility, etc., the facts are DS does not match RS in its power. Same thing with every single other base profession – most suck when compared to elite specs. Saying that they suck isn’t really crying, it’s fact…

Could be worse you could have been like ele and go from an “adaptive damage dealer” to a healer

Thief is in a pretty good spot, ele is mostly just support, mesmer is burst condi, etc. All in all pvp isn’t too bad, you’ll just find new amulets and others have been removed. Not many builds now(two for some classes one for others) so won’t take you long to find what each is gonna bring.

Depends which classes you like to play or style

Crinn.7864:

Xillllix.3485:

It was a fine trait before Anet ruined it.

Yes because having traits that read “gives passive immunity to condi builds” is such good design.

Diamond skin should supplement your condi clear. Not be the end-all-be-all of condi defense which is what the old version was.

How was it end all be all to break 10% health on a low health character?

Wolfric.9380:

yea if this would work on ele swap and maybe like arcane 15% an OL too …. Arcane tempest would get crazy. High skill cap but devasting in the hands of the good main ele players …

Has anyone checked? That could be very fun to goof around with lol

Xillllix.3485:

It was a fine trait before Anet ruined it.

^This!

They aren’t as game changing either. They can only be used once unlike moa

You have a full sec to interrupt them. Those skills also doesn’t take the opponents skills away from them for 10 seconds

Ithilwen.1529:

1 second is an eternity in PvP. This is why the aftercasts on some skills are so strong a control.

If you cannot interrupt, block or dodge in a full second you really do deserve to get moa’d. In addition to that, it’s not a death sentence. It’s a hard hit, yes.. which is what elite skills are supposed to be.

1 sec elites just for ele fiery great sword, tornado,1 1/4 glyph of elementals…. one sec is an eternity in pvp for every other class as well not just mes. The difference is they can’t be used back to back as only mes has CS.

phokus.8934:

Keadron.9570:

Ok I’m not arguing for a nerf but I have to ask why people keep saying it’s a long cast? It’s 1 freaking second! Flamestrike fireball are all 1 sec and their autos with other skills being more. If you want to defend the skill that’s fine but please don’t say it has a long cast time when it doesnt

You can’t react to hitting your dodge key when a bluish animation starts within 1 second?

My point wasn’t if it can be dodged or not. It was that people keep claiming it has a long cast time which it doesnt

I wouldn’t mind those changes at all…. but just think of all the tears on the forums this would cause…. oh well that’s pretty much anything involving an ele

Have we not already had enough amulets removed? Stop with the Remove kitten. Options are a good thing and oh look certain builds use that ammy.

Ok I’m not arguing for a nerf but I have to ask why people keep saying it’s a long cast? It’s 1 freaking second! Flamestrike fireball are all 1 sec and their autos with other skills being more. If you want to defend the skill that’s fine but please don’t say it has a long cast time when it doesnt

I ran into some really good warriors last season actually the new adrenal with signet is quite a bit of sustain now. You’re headed there just give it time

Do you think the flash freeze + soldiers bug being fixed is going to hurt your build?