Guild Wars 2

Roy Cronacher.1576:

You all should make sure to watch the stream tomorrow.

STOP TEASING ME!

I’m joking. Please keep doing it.

Man, I have to work tomorrow

lighter.2708:

don’t even compare to ele or engi

rev has the lowest skill slots.
thief has 17, 16+steal bundle
warrior has 17 skills
ranger has 17 skills

Not only that. He also has the lowest skill frequency (while thief and ele have the highest).
And not only because of the cooldowns on every skill, but mainly because of the lack of weaponswap and kits, and because of the energy cost on weaponskills.
Meaning thet whan you use a toggle skill, you’re forced to swap legend or you can’t even use weaponskills anymore, since they need energy AND cooldown.

Revenant is skills from 1 to 5, then wait. Or toggle legendary skills, do 3 weaponskills attacks and wait. A bit exaggerating here, but you get what I mean.

While elementalist can do over 35 skills in a row without waiting a second.

Skills 6-0 are nothing compared to skills 1-5 in terms of frequency and low cost.
Being able to swap skills 6-0 does not replace the lack of range swap and 1-5 swap.
You can use almost 1 weaponskill every second, while healing skills has to be used only when you need it, elite skill has a huge cost and/or cooldown and utility skills have toggle or are not really useful, and sometimes have long cooldowns and energy cost >35.
Revenant skill frequency at the moment is the lowest in the game: the lowest. How can you say it doesn’t need weaponswap?

An Elementalist can change range midcombat thanks to kit, and can get >35 cooldowns. during the fight with 4 attunement swap and conjured weapons.
Again, over 35 skills in a row, without caring for the others (that alre already free to use after that rotation).

Also it seems that devs have already acknowledged the fact that the lack of weaponswap is an issue for Revenant, while it’s not for Ele.

A question for you Xenon: have you even tried Revenant in the last days, or you just don’t want it to improve?
And if you tried it, how could you not notice the low skill frequency and the lack of ability to adjust to the situation?

As I said in another thread, forcing you to swap weapon with legendswap is a bad idea.
I may want to legendswap to heal (Shiro basically has no immediate healing skill) or to use a certain skill, or to reset energy, but I may want to keep my ranged weapon.

Normal weaponswap is a good solution. Also because weapons seem to be designed for a particolar legend, so having 2 legends and just 1 weapon doesn’t make much sense.

Xenon.4537:

This would allow you to swap legends freely, while still applying conditions, CC, DPS, or support whenever you need it. No need for weapon swap. IMO the Revenant’s unique style should be that it swaps 6-0 instead of 1-5.

Style? Oh come on. Every other class can swap skills from 1-5, that are the skills you use the most.
This gives them a lot of advantages.

Look at Elementalist. Has no weaponswap, but has attunements and kits. This allows the Elementalist to use 35 skills in a row (only those from 1 to 5), without stopping or waiting for cooldowns. Again 35. And without factoring any skill from 6-0 except the ones to conjure weapons.

Revenant can use his weaponskills and then wait for cooldowns. Or can use 1 toggle skill (like Ventari barrier, or rotating hammers, or Mallyx elite) and do nothing, because once your energy is low you can’t use any weaponskill except AA.

Do you get how much swapping skills from 1 to 5 is useful? Swapping skills from 6 to 0 is not even close to that. Mainly because those skills suck however, or have a huge energy cost.

@skowcia.8257

I’m not suggesting ONLY weaponswap. I just want a way to reset skills from 1-5 and to swap mode between melee/ranged, as EVERY other class does.

I also suggested in other threads some kind of mode-swap tied to the legend/weapon combination. This however may be a bad thing because legendswap is needed for energy management, and you may need the other weapon mode with the current legend, or you may need to swap without changing mode. So mode swap would have to be independent from legend to work.

I also hoped for mist conjured weapons or jade weapons for Shiro.

Weaponswap just seems to be the best and easiest solution to me. Easy to implement, it’s probably just a variable in the Revenant class (software class), and it would solve everything.

Of course, weaponskills need to have no energy cost, or it’s almost useless to have swap. You would run out of energy way quicker (and still have the problem that toggle legend skills make you unable to use weaponskills)

skowcia.8257:

Weapon swap is not the answer. They can make him adapt by other means than weapon swap. If engi and ele could do fine without weapon swap for 3 years, why revenant would end up as exception?

They have kits and conjured weapons, as mentioned before. Actually very few Engineers use their weaponskills most of the time, and Elementalist’s conjured weapons are a good way to burst close range if you are a staff Ele, or to kite with ice bow if you are a dagger Ele.

Also both of them get A LOT of new skills with no cooldown. Elementalists can spam 35 different weaponskills in a row with 4 attunements and 3 conjured weapons.

Revenant has his 5 weaponskills (that are only ranged or only melee) and once those are on cooldown he can just wait.
Also once a toggle skill is activated if energy is over then you can’t even use weaponskills. That’s a huge problem.

I’ve seen a video yesterday of an Ele soloing a wyvern from HoT hero challenge. He could win only because of infinite weaponskills. He kept damaging and healing back with water attunement.
A Revenant would have just died. 5 skills, wait, wait, die.

That doesn’t seem the case however. To me the problem with Revenant traits is that they don’t do much.

Rising Dusk.2408:

A lot of forum specialists have heard the public’s cry for a weapon swap on Revenant and we’ve passed that along to the development team. I can’t promise they’ll add one, but I will say that in principle I agree with the premise; the Revenant needs the added customization and adaptation mid-combat that a weapon swap provides.

Thank you very much.

Genesis.8572:

cut

I agree. Both ranger and Engineer have kits/conjured weapons. A dagger ele can summon a bow, and a staff ele can summon a greatsword or a hammer. Similar stuff for engineer.

This also provides 5 new skills with no cooldown. Spam skill from 1 to 5, then swap/summon weapon and spam 5 skills again.

Revenant can’t do it (and even weaponswap wouldn’t allow that because of energy cost on weaponskills, that also have cooldown… but that’s a different flaw)

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And I think you misunderstood what he was trying to get at which is if the class doesn’t suit your style, there are 8 others. That’s a bit different than saying they can’t fit a role so change it.

It’s not so different. I won’t play another class and abandon Revenant talk or stop addressing issues because there are 8 more classes so I should not care.
And it is not about liking the playstyle either, I pretty much like some mechanics. I don’t like flaws in design and I want to address them.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Weapon swap isn’t needed.

Your opinion about that differs from the opinion of the great majority here.
Revenant is the only class that can’t change skills 1-5 at the moment. This makes him unable to reset cooldowns like other classes do (well, that would also be pointless because of energy hoever) and most importantly doesn’t give you melee/ranged swap during fights.

Some bosses have phases that need you to stay ranged, then swap to melee for burst. Revenant can’t do that. Has to stay ranged full time, doing less damage, or stay melee, unable to attack all the time.
Also being ranged and kite is pretty useful on a melee spec. Gives you time to heal back.

Oh, Rev can fit almost every role if it’s fixed. At the moment way less efficiently and with no “gear change” (did you notice it’s the only class that can’t change skill 1-5 while in combat?)

I was just replying to “There are 8 other classes”

Got no problem with traits focused on a legend. That’s the whole point of specializing into something.

I second this, but not only for hammer, but for every weapon (maybe just 2 modes instead of 4? Like ranged and melee?)

This stance swap would be great, maybe a little bit more difficult to implement compared to weaponswap, but would solve the “I guess I’ll just wait and do nothing” problem when malee or ranged combat is required and you don’t have the right weapon equipped-

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I’ve already made a lot of changes due to feedback from last weekend for the Revenant. Hopefully I’ll get to share them soon.

Did you just say “weaponswap”?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Make sure to check out the stream tomorrow, seeing it in game does the skills way more justice then reading about them.

Are you going to show us the rework you did on Revenant mechanics (pls weaponswap or range swap) and other Legends?

Dagger ele is pretty good and basically melee.
And all you’re saying is 100% opposite to the GW2 philosophy that Colin also refreshed last week.

“Every class in GW2 must be able to fit every role”

There should be no “Revenant can’t do it, call a Guardian”.

forcing you to swap weapon with legendswap is a bad idea.

I may want to legendswap to heal (Shiro basically has no immediate healing skill) or to use a certain skill, or to reset energy, but I may want to keep my ranged weapon.

The weapon sets are themed off the stances, but we can’t swap weapons. So we will be stuck with one good combination and one useless one.

Also no mention about swiftness? No mention about weaponskills needing energy + cooldown?

Seriously, weaponswap, energy on weaponskills and swiftness are the things Revenant needs the most. I’m not concerned about dps (that’s simply a “change the numbers” + Shiro thing)

Spitzilla.4193:

Well I do not know if someone posted this, but if sigils on weapon swap would not work with legend swap, all those sigils will not be usable for Revenant ?

Some of them do work. I tried Earth and it does.

Please Roy, give us weaponswap.

Revenant is the only class who can’t change (and reset cooldowns) to skills from 1 to 5.
Being unable to weaponswap not only forces you in some situations where you have to say “oh well, guess I’ll just wait”, but makes your damage output inferior to other classes who can swap or summon weapons and get more cooldowns to use. And we also have energy consumption shared with skills from 6-0, so if we use too many of them (or just a toggle one) we can’t even use weaponskills.
And weaponskills can’t even be spammed with energy like thief does, because they also have cooldowns.

(and swiftness with no combo or 25% permanent speed buff please)

Ventari the best? Come on. Active use of tablet makes you unable to do anything else.

I support some of your suggestions (not at all with hammer).
Let me add something:

• Downed skill #3 doesn’t work at all many times. A bug? Doesn’t really help a lot however. I’d suggest to reduce CD on #2 and to make a different #3 that actually heals you, similar to other heavy armor classes.

• Sure, active ways to gain energy, but also remove energy cost from weaponskills. They already have cooldown. Toggle legend skill simply make you unable to attack if you don’t pay a lot of attention and deactivate them after a couple of seconds.

• Dwarf #9 is useless if the room is small because hammers get destroyed on object hit. Bug?

• Autosummon tablet on Ventari swap. Makes no sense that you have to swap ant then summon, since you can’t do anything if tablet is not summoned, and the only reason to swap to a legend is to use legendary skills. Summon tablet should be used only if you destroy it or you go too far.

• Tablet skills should not lock you into motions, should be like shouts/virtues. Otherwise if you actively give commands to the tablet you basically can’t do anything else.

• Hammer needs a full rework. It’s too slow, you can’t even kite with it. #5 is so slow on activation it’s a pain to use it in PvE, and basically worthless in pvp unless you’re not seen (well, at the moment if somebody sees you you’re dead). All hammer skill need a speedup, similar to what they did for Guardian scepter. Good ranged weapon? Damage is so low. With no traits it does HALF the dps of my Guardian with scepter and also no traits.

• Staff is fine except #2. It’s horrible.

• Add swiftness/mobility options. Shiro may have those, but I won’t like a legend to be basically mandatory

Still other classes have an advantage there. It’s not balanced.
Also with no swiftness (except from hammer 5 + lightning field) that platforming part is very hard, expecially because harpies attack you. Swiftness from mace is not an option, since it would make you fall from the small platform.

Revenant needs mobility on every legend (except Ventari, ok)

Can we please know why we have cd if all our skills have also energy cost?
It makes no sense to me.

Empty Sky.6354:

Where are blocks,stun breaks,etc.? Swap legend…and then you are stuck with skills you don’t want or can’t help you. And what a "rich " choice of what you want for utility skills

I agree, a lot.

I often play as tank in pvp as Guardian. The classic staff+[mace-focus] Guardian, useful to hold points. It’s amazingly solid and I can survive 2vs1 forever and even 5vs1 for quite some time.

Since we have no dps legend on Revenant at the moment, I decided to try some defensive builds to do the same thing.
The result is …. It doesn’t work. Not at all, not by a long shot.

I got killed by a Necromancer in 1vs1 and he never had to use death shroud or any elite skill.

Even the most tanky Revenant with Ventari Tablet and Dwarf Stance feels like a Thief with Soldier gear. Before you ask, yes, I also tried Knight gear and Demon stance. Tryed mace, staff (probably the best option here) and hammer.
Not enough heals, not enough buffs. Not even enough condi cleanse, at least not fast enough. Your best option for stun break is legend swap with trait, and forces you to be locked in skills you don’t need in that moment or that you have on cd (can we please know why we have cd if all our skills consume energy?)

Being unable to deal damage is a thing, we still lack that legend, but being unable to tank with Tank and Heal legends already out, it’s a huge mess.

Gordon Ramsay won’t be able to express my frustration.

Even it it was like Guardian elite signet (full heal), being forced to actively control the tablet puts a death flag over your head.
Ventari is simply worthless in pvp at the moment. You can’t tank like a Guardian, not a chance.
On my Guardian I can take a full team for many seconds before I go down, with the most defensive Revenant I could pull I don’t usually survive 1 vs 1.

Again, Revenant can’t even tank.

Revenant has huge flaws at the moment.
Long story short, the lack of mobility, the very slow weapons and the fact that you can’t swap (that is not a bad thing on ele and engi because they have kits, while revenant has nothing)

cocowoushi.7150:

Kidel.2057:

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

The ONLY “mandatory range” 2nd weapon in fractals is against Reactor boss. Everything else is fine in Melee. And even then it doesn’t take long to get melee range back.

Rev def needs another range option, though, for other situations.

Not only bosses. Many situations require some party members with ranged weapon (like the platforming part with harpies, that is already pretty bad for the lack of swiftness if you have no hammer)

Agreed that mobility is a huge issue. And yes, I’ve tested what you said about hammer verticality, it’s bad if I’m not on the same height as the enemy.

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

Thank you Roy. Since you’re there, let’s get rid of the energy costfor weapinskills

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

Well, let’s say you release Shiro and a DPS trait line and weapon. That won’t solve everything, becouse it would just make current revenant options useless, forcing everyone to use Shiro to be at least decent.

Noticed that with Revenant, it seems it can’t queue weaponskills.

Is that because of the energy cost (pretty lame however that energy cost is shared among legend and weapon skills, even thief has it only for weapon, so revenant shoult have it only for legends, and no cooldown)

I noticed that too.
Maybe it’s because weaponskills depend on energy?

That also should change however. It’s a huge problem that you can’t even attack when toggle skills suck away all your energy.

Thief initiative is not shared across utility, Revenant energy shouldn’t be consumed by weaponskills (that also have a cooldown, so why?)

Hammer needs a complete rework. It’s too slow and makes no damage peak to compensate for that. Make it at least on par with Ele staff please, and give a legend some melee [or ranged] options to compensate for the lack of weapon swap.

As you probably can notice from the amount of threads about that, Revenant has no way to compensate for the lack of weapon swap, unlike Engi and Ele that have kits/conjured weapons.
Make weapons change skills according to legend, like attunements, or just add a weapon swap option.

I agree with most of the stuff you said. I’d add something to Demon stance to counter the fact that party dungeons have a lot of condi cleanse, so all the skill/traits with “3 conditions” treshold are almost useless.

Good thread. I’d like your suggestions to be implemented. Still Revenant would be weak, but playable.

Also dwarf elite must be changed. Has a huge energy cost and a low duration, so the huge channeling time makes no sense. Also if you get interrupted (and that’s very likely) you lose all your energy and you pretty much can’t do anything.

EDIT: you added it, nice

I’d still be waiting for Glint legend with MAIN HAND SHIELD (yeah, I know it will just be offhand ;_;)

Problem with Ventari is the Tablet, not the staff. The staff is fine. Not very high dps, but heals a lot (it actually heals MORE then the Tablet).

Not only the Tablet is useless (except for Lupicus gimmicks lol), but it forces you to actively use it without time to even attack, and making it very hard to dodge or move.
Skills are not instant, you are locked into ana nimation, and heals are low. Only decent heal is not instant because you should prevent damage (how? spamming it? goodbye energy and damage).

Also energy cost is not appropriate.

Why the hell Ventari tablet needs summoning?
You swap to that legend only to summon the tablet, there is no other reason, that legend does NOTHING if you don’t summon it.

And why the command to follow you? To heal in the process? The amount is too low. Make it follow you while applying regen, like an engineer turret or a ranger spirit.

In practical use, the tablet is only good for stacking situations, and even so it’s pretty meh, since you can’t actively issue commands withaut wasting A LOT of dps.

The tablet should NOT lock you in animations while using commands, it should work like shouts. It’s even hard to autoattack.

I agree with OP. Having to use a combination makes you waste a lot of time for just 5 seconds of swiftness. Plus you are forced to use dwarf (well, not a problem now, but it could be later).

The main problem however is that is very easy to hit monsters while doing that, since all of them are large aoes, slowing you down more, even if you have swiftness on.

I believe that currently there is no engineer build with no kits, maybe with the only exception of heavy turet builds.
Being struck with the same weapon is pretty bad in this game.

Without having a second set of weapon, a nice way to have a third no-swap class would be to have every weapon with 2 different set of skills, similar to elementalist attunement.

Each Revenant weapon could have 2 (or more) set of skills. Skill sets can change according to the current legend.

Defensive legend -> weapon skill set 1
Offensive legend -> weapon skill set 2

Example:
Hammer Revenant could have a melee action set for shiro and demon, while having a ranged skill set (like the current one) for ventari and dwarf.

why not just make the second weapon tied to the legend or by its own.

or if you don’t want a second weapon set, then why not making the legend change the way the weapon works?

Hammer Revenant → dwarf stance makes hammer go melee with more damage
→ demon stance makes hammer go ranged with current skills/damage

In agree. Made a similar thread, then it got merged into the blob.

Engi has many options to switch in melee-ranged situations, as Elementalist. A staff ele can summon hammer/sword, a dagger ele can summor the ice bow and also get many heavy hitting utility skills.

Ranged revenant is weak in melee situations, and a melee revenant has NO WAY to go ranged in battle.

this is a pretty stupid class design

Kronos.2560:

Legendary Dwarf Stance – Supposed to be tank. I propose giving some tweaks and adding protection boon.
Forced Engagement – Reduce energy cost, for a measly interrupt/taunt 50 is too high.
Vengeful Hammers – Make so gives protection to group at intervals while hammers active. (Jalis needs some access to protection boon)
Inspiring Reinforcement – This one is fine as is.
Rite of the Great Dwarf – Reduce channeling time, it already costs 50 energy so it doesn’t get spammed… why add a ridiculous channeling time to it also???

Legendary Demon Stance – Based on dealing more damage with conditions. I feel condition cap at 3 should be lowered to 2 given the ridiculous amounts of condi cleanses you get in a group setting.
Banish Enchantment – This is one good as is.
Unyielding Anguish – The torment caps at 3 stacks (6 if condi met) and does not increase per pulse. Needs to be changed so it can at least stack some torment. Also displacement ignores stability and defiance as well as moves unmovable bosses.
Pain Absorption – Way too much of an energy requirement for getting a second of resistance (not to mention a bunch of hurtful conditions).
Embrace the Darkness – Interval needs to be lower and condition apply higher. For how little of time you can use this should have higher effect. Maybe something like 1 second interval, 2-3 seconds of conditions. Given how it doesn’t last long at least let it stack more then 1 stack of a condition.

Legendary Centaur Stance – Healing tablet build, felt a bit messy, wish there was a way to just have tablet follow you as to focus more on dodges etc then just moving the tablet. Feels like it wants you to stack, wasn’t the point to stop stacking not support it?
Protective Solace – This one is good, though maybe a slightly larger aoe.
Natural Harmony – Decent skill low cost and usable but it still felt weak on the heals, maybe its just me.
Purifying Essence – Works fine, although the cast time was making it fail half the time when used.
Energy Expulsion – Would not activate unless i was over 50 energy. Felt that made it not as useful.

Hammer – Everything has a 1 second+ activation time that needs to be reduced. Why bother with huge activation times when it all costs energy anyways?

Mace/Axe – Felt weak but still by far the best weapon out of the choices. Needs damage increase.

Staff – Extremely low dps, yes it does heal you… kind of. But for how pathetic the dps is not worth it. Also noticed it didn’t always send out healing orbs on 3rd attack.

Please post any ideas you think would work! I would go into traits to but… not worth it ha ha. Hope to hear some good ideas of what boons/buffs etc the rev could use to make it not terrible =P

I agree with ALL your suggestions.

Misguided.5139:

I don’t think you want to auto-switch weapons when you switch legends, if that is what you mean. It would make more sense if you chose one weapon and your SECOND weapon you could switch to was based on the currently active legend.
Now THAT I like!

I’d prefer that too, but we should fly low. No way they’re going to make it.

As title says. You pick 2 weapon sets as normal classes and 2 legends. Then first one is tied to first weapon set and second one to the other.

Ok, but you have no means of auto rally, expecially against bosses.

To me, yes they do (expecially when you compare them to Warrior, Elementalist or even Guardian). But let’s discuss.

As reported in bug section with screens:

1) missing Hammer skill1 animation when trasnformed into a ghost in AC. I believe this also occurs with other transformations
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Revenant-missin-hammer-AA-while-ghost-in-AC

2) dark square around Ventari tablet when moving it with skill #5
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Grey-square-when-moving-Ventari-Tablet-around
It’s more visible in certain maps