Guild Wars 2

Anything about weaponskills energy cost?
In the stream the Revenant was able to use them at 0 energy. Was that a dev thing?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

<3 I got a good laugh at the title. Glad you are looking forward too it.

Thank you for listening to us.
Any news on energy cost on weaponskills? They did not seem to have it from the stream

Mallyx doesn’t work like Necro at all. The purpose of Mallyx is to get conditions and copy them, and put some torment.

Also Necro was never the best condi class (and neither Revenant imo)

Yeah, I could be wrong. Hoping to get Roy’s attention for a reply. Keep bumping

It’s probably no cost. Energy reached 0 and I’m sure there was no symbol, not even for an instant.

I can be wrong. Hope not.

CronicDemise.4635:

Sigmoid.7082:

it also has a flanking requirement.

You’re right, I forgot about the flank requirement. Skill 3 on sword could play into this well.

only 1 skill and with a long cooldown. Also the flanking there is pretty random.

Don’t over react guys.

From the stream I could tell thet energy cost got removed or lowered a lot on weaponskills. That would pretty much solve half of your concerns.
When the guy used skill #9 and his energy was over, there was no symbol on weaponskill, meaning those were still usable.
This makes sense with the newly added weaponswapo (that would require too much energy)

For the rest I’m still waiting Roy’s post.

oh, you were talking about pvp.

Well, old professions are all getting new mechanic and more skills to customize with elite. Revenant is only getting another legend probably. Still no skill rearrange.

I’m pretty sure necro has way more if you don’t factor the Life Force. Shroud = extra HP
Edit: and Revenant requires flanking, soooo… no.
And I seriously doubt people are going to get it over the other 2 traits.

or a faster and cooler omnislash

Oh please, stop this nonsense. Guardian is completely different from Revenant.

Not even going to talk about Necro. Why? This comparison makes no sense.
Revenant has nothing like Necro staff, death shroud or skills. They have nothing in common.
Mallyx? Oh come on, Necro is not even the best condi class.

I’ve seen a couple of times his energy go down to 0 and he still could use weaponskills.

Hope we get a clarification in the upcoming post.

Another great news it seems: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Energy-cost-removed-from-weaponskill/first#post5291286

Am I wrong? I’ve just seen legendary skill #9 consume all energy, but weaponskills were still viable.

Is that a mistake? If not then awesome, thanks.
That was required for weaponswap to work with no penalty.

Edit: and it seems that cooldown got removed from some legendary skills too.

Randulf.7614:

Whilst this is good news, where was the info’s source? Was it the POI stream?

yep.

Loex.5104:

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

ROY …. THANK YOU =)
and WTF … the Sword 3 is just insane as hell …

most of them were “swap weapon when you swap legend”, that is actually WORSE then having no weaponswap at all.

And all of them were way worse then actual weaponswap, not only harder to make.

… the best looking skill in tha game.

They can simulate their underpowered suggestion pressing F1+weaponswap at the same time.

Sorry, I was posting at the same time probably

You just did it!
Thank you

Just a note. Weapons are not limited at all. Hammer is the same with every legend and has almost 0 sinergyvwith them, except some shared looks with Jalis. Same for mace and, I guess, swords.
Also staff is not the Ventari weapon, but the healing one, and Ventari happens to be the healing legend. Similar to Guardian’s staff, just melee.

I used mace with Jalis just fine, and hammer with mallyx. No prob

To be honest I find hammer being better then staff on ventari, and staff being very good on jalis. Rotating hammers are good on melee range, and tank loves healing.

Killyox.3950:

That’s still bad. Doesn’t leave any options tbh. What if I don’t want to be support? On engie/war I can be full dmg focused. Here I can be at most 50% dmg focused:P

Atm Jalis have the best dps skills excluding Shiro (rotating hammers are pretty good to burst in melee range, the only peoblem is that energy cost will prevent you from doing weaponskills), and Mallyx has (or should have) condi cleans but also condi damage. I can see many good companions for Shiro if they’re fixed.
being able to self sustain while doing dps is also good. Revenant is too fragile

Loex.5104:

I Would start by making Jalis a “tanky frontliner” like they intended him to be – more “I am here to protect you” – type
atm the only “tank” skills are a 50 energy 1s taunt and a 50 energy AoE DmG Reduce elite

That lasts like 3 seconds with a 2 seconds cast time, so it’s a waste of energy

How are those ideas better then regular weaponswap?
protip: they aren’t

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Forcing the rev to swap to regenerate energy with any efficiency is just bad design wise.

I do not agree. It’s actually pretty smart to give reasons to use the main class mechanic. They even did it with war in the last patch. Plus if you trait it, then legend swap (as thief steal) can become a useful slill, with buffs, stunbreaks and so on.

If you don’t design it that way, people won’t use it, making every class the same.
plus the lack of customization on skills is replaced by the legend swap, so of course you should get benefits from that, since you lose time swapping

Linking weapon to legend is a bad idea. Legend swapping is needed to regen energy, get a particular skill, double heal or even stun break. Weapon swapping is needed in different situations.

I may want to swap weapon while keeping my toggle skill, or swap legend while keeping a eanged weapon.

The “sub optimal” stuff depends on how you build. And hammer and mace seem the same with every legend. The only dedicated one is staff, but at the moment every weapon is useless with the tablet, so staff is just the healer weapon, it just happens that Ventari is the healer legend. They don’t really have so much sinergy.

But regardless linking weapon to a legend is really bad and lowers customization, that is already low with Revenant.

Please stop bringing it up in every thread. There are 6 thread with people suggesting to swap weapon on legend swap, and it’s a really bad idea, much inferior to regulat weaponswap, so just ask for weaponswap.

It’s true however that rev has low survivability. Even in pve

Knox.8962:

This Grandmaster Trait gives a stacking 2% crit chance every second and resets when you crit. This is, in effect a fancier way of providing an increased crit chance trait that is slightly more interesting than “Increase crit chance by 15%” or similar.

The reality is that the trait is very weak because of the fact that even at low crit rates it resets itself pretty regularly. The best case scenario is for a person with a base 5% crit chance, who will gain an average of 12.64% crit chance from the trait if they attack once per second. If you take this at a more typical 20% crit chance, that bonus drops to and average of 6.01% bonus crit chance.

I know some people have suggested making the increased percentage higher per tick, but even at 5% steps, the trait is worth less that 10% crit before you even get to 30% crit chance. I’ve attached a chart that shows the average value of the trait at different crit levels and at three different stepping intervals (the current 2%, 5% and 10%) and even at 10%, this trait is fairly weak for anyone with a decent starting crit chance.

In short, this trait is pretty ‘neat’ but is woefully underpowered, and lacks the ability to scale for people who want to add more precision to their existing gear.

Yeah, science kitten!

Edit: autocensor ruining my quote from Breaking Bad…

I’d suggest to make it more helpful. Aoe protect and aegis on Jalis and base regen on Ventari.

Shiro is probably going to be the selfish legend.

Knighthonor.4061:

[…]
It should also have more passive effects radiate from the Revenant along with the current effects.
[…]
I like the concept of Ven Will. But this skill need to self heal a small bit each use for it wont see any use in SPvP.

Yep, also this.

Well, dps build should be focused on dps legend.
They need to change the meta to change that. Not a Revenant issue.
Every class has a dps trait line that 90% of the builds are using.

You’re forgetting toggle skills and skills that require you to have more then 50 energy. Those are only possible with this mechanic and are unique. I like them.
The problem with toggle skills and skills with high cost is that they make you unable to use weaponskills.
Energy needs some rework and weaponskill don’t have to use energy (thay also have cooldown already, so why the energy cost?)

skowcia.8257:

Kidel.2057:

I want to be able to use hammer and dual swords, for god’s sake.

Even with wep swap you can still use olny one set. Unless you want to triple wield?

Lol.

skowcia.8257:

If you want to swap between dual swords and hammer roll warrior.

That was just an example…

skowcia.8257:

You do not provide any reasonable argument as to why revenant needs weapon swap.

Seriously? I gave you way more then one.
And you’re even suggesting a F2 conjured weapon mechanic as a possible solution for them. And you still didn’t tell me why your suggestion is better then weaponswap (except you personally want it). How are kits and attunements better? Well because they are almost the same thing as weaponswap but you get many of them. Weaponswap is just 5 extra skills, attunement is 15 more.

Not wasting any more time with you, sorry.

DaveyC.4398:

Linking the simplest way to implement would be to tie the wepeon slots to each legend slot. That way you can change both wepeon and legend as you see fit. This would not take or remove anything from your inventory.

Using one wepeon across multiple slots is already possible so I don’t see an issue.

Really a bad idea.
If you didn’t notice, Revenant main focus is legend swap. We get energy from it, and stunbreaks and the utility skills we can’t customize. We need to swap and a lot. Just look at the traits. Many of thems are “when you swap legend”.

You can’t tie that to the weapon swapping.

What if I need to burst melee-range but I’m stunned and I need to swap to Jalis for stun break? I’m forced to go hammer for that? That’s nonsense.

What if I’m fighting the Golem World Boss ranged (before you rage, that’s an example) but I need energy, so I need to swap legend? Do I also get a melee weapon so I have to wait and do nothing? What if I’m Shiro and I need Jalis for stability? I get stability but also a melee weapon so I can do nothing.

Just 2 examples to preve that your idea is bad. Also difficult to make and worse then weaponswap. Simple, good old weaponswap.

And not just your idea. All the strange ideas that are coming lately (f2 conjured weapon, skill change, mode change) are all inferior to weaponswap. People are suggesting those just to make something original. I’m okay with original things, but only if better or decent, not if worse.

Tell me 1 good reason why your idea is better then normal weaponswap. 1 reason.

When revenant was announced I believed that 7-0 skills would have made up for the lack of swap. Of course they could change the gameplay, but guess what? They didn’t.
As 7-0 skills are now (yes, not counting 6, since it’s healing skill) they do not replace weaponswap, and they won’t unless they do them all again from scratch.

And you know what? I prefer them the way they’re now. I don’t want a class that is a completely different game and I also think it would confuse 90% of the players. I just want a class with a different mechanic, and the current Revenant is fine. Just give weaponswap and no energy cost on 1-5 skills.

However they already said that energy has already been changed since the last bonus beta. We should have ways to generate it in the next one, aside from legendswap that already can.

LiQuid.3958:

I’m totally okay with weapon swapping, but didn’t they say that rev won’t get it?

Simple answer: no, they didn’t.

And Rey told us a couple of times to wait for POI tomorrow in threads where we were discussing about weaponswap. So something is coming.

They thought that weaponswap wasn’t needed because of 6-0 swap, but it’s clearly not the case. In Rev forum 60% of the threads are about the lack of weaponswap.

LiQuid.3958:

Even if you can swap weapons, your energy is low most of the time so you won’t be able to use the energy costly skills of the swapped weapon anyway.

And this needs to be fixed, even without weaponswap. Either give them only a low energy cost, or just cooldown.
Thief has no initiative cost on 6-0 skills, why Rev has cost on all skills?

UnknownRH.4592:

lets say make it blink to the location of the cursor.

Yes.

Jalis
I liked this class a lot with hard tanking utility and offensive mechanics to keep pressure on the opponents.

Jalis? Really? Didn’t notice that.

UnknownRH.4592:

Legend invoking

Yep. Welcome to the “wait” class.

UnknownRH.4592:

Really….really ….baddd!!!! (SS reference if you get it).

I got it!

Pretty much agree with everything, except I don’t see all that utility and tankyness on Jalis. Coming from a berserker Guardian in pve and a tank point-holder Guardian in pvp, I found Revenant to be both unable to do damage (well, that was ealmost xpected, lacking Shiro) but also unable to tank.
Even with the tankiest build I could do, if somebody spots you in pvp you’re basically dead. Rev seemed quie squishy, mostly for the lack of useful traits.

Jalis should do AOE protect and maybe aegis too.

Rev doesn’t have low cd. You’re not factoring that hidden cd that is energy cost.

Listen, that f2 solution, just tell me how is it better then weaponswap? Because it’s “different”? Oh come on…

I want to be able to use hammer and dual swords, for god’s sake.

Omg, weaponswap is so much better.
All those solutions are just to make something different but actually worse. I’d love to be able to have hammer and dual swords.

Range swap is A solution, not the best. The best is something developed long ago, but that works just fine. Why the urge to make something different, even if worse?

And still, if you only change skill 1, this solves nothing.
You still have no cooldown reset. That’s the main reason of weaponswapping and attunement/kit swapping: doing more skills with no cost and no wait.

Moving it is just 10% of the problem. Having to be locked while we issue orders is the biggest flaw. It should work like shouts.
I’m just giving an order, why I can’t even autoattack meanwhile?

2: has not been made and would force every revenant to use that legend, or to have a redundant skill on every legend.
3: Bad. Legend swap has to be independent from weaponswap. I may want to swap legend to get energy/utility and keep the same weapon (ranged or melee), or swap weapon without needlessy change legend. Legend swap is the main Revenant mechanic (did you even look at the traits?). We need to swap legend frequently, but we may not want to swap weapojn in the process.
4: No. See 3.
5: Nice, but not a fast solution and legends would change too much everything, but that’s my opinion.
6: No. See 3.
7: Does it change from 6? Not too much, so no. See 3.

The only solution to me is weaponswap, sorry. Maybe a conjured mist weapon of choice with F2, but that’s harder to accomplish and gives worse results. It’s just to say “look, it’s different! (but worse)”

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Certainly not! I completely agree that Legends being absolutely tied to a weapon is a terrible idea. I’d rather have plain weapon swap in that case. However, there’s been several suggestions in the other threads here that have great solutions. I’d rather than not reguritate them though considering they’re still on the first page of this forum.

Among those? (tanken from a thread in the first page)

Possible solutions

1. Allow weapon swap
2. Add Utility Skills to the legends, that provide something similar to Conjured Weapons or Kits
3. Completely change weapon skills depending on which stance you’re using (Elementalist-Attunement-style)
4. Only slightly change weapon skills depending on which stance you’re using (for example, Mace/Axe basically keeps it’s skills when changing from Mallyx to Jalis, but the skills lose their condition applying and get CC/protective effects instead, plus all skills turn into ranged versions of themselves)
5. Give us something like ‘Death Shroud’: Each legend allows us to swap between our weapon and five legend-based skills by pressing F2
6. Tie Legendary Stances to their respective weapons (so swapping stances auto-swaps your weapon, or swapping weapons auto-swaps your stance)
7. Completely switch legends with weapons: Legends determine your #1-#5 skills, weapons determine your #6-#0 skills (probably the biggest Revenant redesign of all possibilies, needs a lot of creativity)

2: has not been made and would force every revenant to use that legend, or to have a redundant skill on every legend.
3: bad for the already mentioned reason. Legend swap should not depend on weaponswap.
4: previous post
5: nice, but not a fast solution and legends would change too much, but that’s my opinion
6: bad, really bad. Again, legend swap has to be independent from weaponswap. I may want to swap legend to get energy/utility and keep the same weapon (ranged or melee), or swap weapon without needlessy change legend.
7: as above. It’s not really different.

The only solution to me is weaponswap, sorry. Maybe a conjured mist weapon of choice with F2, but that’s harder to accomplish and gives worse results. It’s just to say “look, it’s different! (but worse)”

That still won’t add gameplay diversity, like changing from melee to ranged midfight, or getting reset on cooldowns.
That’s not a solution Xenon, we’d still need weaponswap. The one you’re suggesting is just a nice trait to have. But also another way to tie the legend to the weapon, that is bad for the very reason you quoted.

You’re basically suggesting to move main skills in the right side of the bar?
Because it doesn’t matter how you fix energy stuff, I can’t spam a healing skill and I can’t spam damaging attacks with an elite skill or a utility skill.

Utility skills are there just to be useful, providing things like blinks or CC, while the main source of gameplay are skills from 1 to 5, and Revenant is the only, again the ONLY, class that can’t swap those.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Rising Dusk.2408:

A lot of forum specialists have heard the public’s cry for a weapon swap on Revenant and we’ve passed that along to the development team. I can’t promise they’ll add one, but I will say that in principle I agree with the premise; the Revenant needs the added customization and adaptation mid-combat that a weapon swap provides.

And did you represent those asking for other solutions rather than just plain weapon swap? There are just as many people asking here for a different solution than weapon swap.

Like what solutions?

Swap tied to the legend is terrible, forces you to swap legend when you don’t want or WORSE, keep a legend when you need to swap it. Legend swap is vital for revenant. Our main source of energy, our solution for the lack of customizable utility skills and almost our only stun break. If you tie weaponswap to that we’ll be even more often in a “guess I’ll just wait” situation.

Weapon modes with F2 key is a nice solution, I also suggested it in the first day of this last beta, but harder to implement and inferior to plain old weaponswap.
Since Roy is showing that tomorrow it seems, I guess they just added the good old weaponswap. I seriously hope so, and I’ll support them if they did.

This interview is amazing.

Ventari stance is the one that needs most rework. Its concept is cool, but the micromanaging is not micro at all. It’s a full time job with a very low pay.

Auto summon? Yes. Resummon only when destroyed.
Auto follow? Maybe. I suggested it too in another thread, but many did not agree.
Insta cast on commands? YES PLEASE. Doesn’t make sense that we are locked while using them.
A buff on some tablet skills? Of course. The healing output seems too low or forces you to spec a lot on healing power, meaning it’s useless on balanced builds. It should be at least good on a celestial build and awesome on a full healer build.

We should be able to actually do something while micromanaging the tablet.

Rym.1469:

Just move Resistance to the end of the cast.

@Roy, To be honest, Demonic Defiance could’ve been baselined. It’s pretty much a no-brainer for PvP or something competitive with conditions present.

Or keep it, but buff the Resistance duration to 3s, so I don’t have to aggressively mash Embrace to sustain any Resistance in non-teamfight situation.

I agree with both those suggestions.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Underwater combat? Yes.

Uhm, got a question then. How are those weapons final? Aren’t we getting a spear or a trident for underwater combat?

Not that I want them. Being able to fight with swords underwater would be great.