Guild Wars 2

Arheundel.6451:

Regardless of what people want, Anet has alreayd stated that glass cannon will be toned down but no nerfed to nothingness, you can scream as much as you want but thieves spikers are here to stay and people need to adapt, plain and simply

You need to pay attention if not you get destroyed…as long as you insist in playing zero/low toughness builds; but this is so logical that is hard to believe that people even try to argue against it.

There are many runes-traits that naturally counter any burst but if you want to keep using divinity runes without paying more attention for your lack of indirect defense, why the hell do you cry?

who said they wanted to play without toughness and such?

If any profession, than thiefs have the most players neglecting defensive stats and traits.
Wonder why that is…

I complain a lot, but I don’t offend often. I try not to at all, but sometimes I can be so full of myself and really have that tone of looking down on someone in my post
Not good, but it happens when I find the post beyond reason.

Anyhow, I strongly believe that discussing clashing opinions is healthy and good for a game.

What strikes me in the OP’s post however, is the way he gives examples of people critisizing the game as being too hostile and whatever. He mentions the ones having issues the most.

He does not list the many very agressive responses the defenders of this game often post.

Without exagerating: this game has some of the most hostile elitist players I’ve seen on any forums in a long while.
It’s as bad as the pure arena and rated bg forums of WoW, and that’s saying something.

But somehow the OP doesn’t adress those defenders, at all.
He mostly says: those who critisise please be quiet and polite, so the rest of us can have our forums to ourselves.
He should mention the very fierce defenders as well, they are just as hostile, or often worse, than the ones bringing up issues they have.

In general I agree that forums are also a fun place to discuss builds, strategies, fun facts, and all of that.

Guess what: not a single post of mine on the engineer forum is as critical as the ones I put on the pvp or general discussion, or recently the halloween forums.
There is a reason the more general forums attrackt more heat.

And this being the spvp forum, it is bound to attrackt the most heat.
And justly so: this is where the most frustrating things happen, when you fight other players and you feel the odds aren’t even.

Much comes from the stubborness of only wanting to balance around a single game mode.

Introduce different game modes and suddenly not every strong build now will be great for the other forms of pvp.

The important balancing thing here is that you should give weaknesses if needed. For example:

guardian bunkers are reall strong in capture mode.
They would remain equally strong if they don’t have much mobility at all, not even if they would have moving penalties on top of that. Since they mostly stay on the point they defend.

Now introduce capture the flag.
First idea: hey, let’s give it to the guardian again, bunker as they are!
But he’s slow, sooo slow. He ultimately dies every time since he can’t escape, and this game has no healers…

In that particular game mode other ‘lesser’ bunkers will arise, more speedy like engineers or elementals to name somethign.

Other roles in different game modes would be filled in different as well.

I truly believe focusing on one game mode only, actually leads to certain builds being too strong always.

As for tournaments:
mix up the game modes but very importantly: don’t allow build changes once the tournament started.
Since you can’t go all out for one mode than (guardian bunker example again), you’ll be forced to use more balanced buoilds.
That alone would even out the extreme builds in their usefullness.

Not that we really needed another post on it, but just out of curiosity for the replies so far:

you guys actually think GW2 is material for an e-sport than?

If spvp is here to teach us anything related to tpvp, than it should be 5v5. Plain and simple.

And on top of that the points system is broken, it just screams to play selfish. So in anonymous random pvp that is what you’ll get. The system is at fault even before the individual players are.

Anyone thinking that in random pugged pvp people will not focus on points mostly is delusional.

Idiots like me focus on strategy in spvp. Some others do as well. The majority plays it as it is designed: as a selfish zerg game.

My motto for spvp: defending gets you nothing but killed.
(and I speak out of experience on that one)

Arheundel.6451:

1) They’re there to punish you for your lack of attention
2) They’re there to remind you that in this game being able to time dodge is fundamental
3) They’re there to remind you that in PvP to have great map awareness is crucial

As top players have showed, the thief can be countered like any other profession, so if the means to counter them exist why people complain that much?

A. First part: the 3 reasons thiefs are there according to you.
IF these are the reasons thiefs are there, than there are no reasons why thiefs should be there…
I’ll explain:

1. if thiefs are the main reason I should pay attention, than the game clearly doesn’t evolve around me paying attention. This means the thiefs are the odd thing here, forcing me to pay attention. Remove thiefs and game back to normal.

If on the other hand other things force me to pay attention, than your argument is completely void.
I believe this second option to be the case.

By no means are your 1-2-3 reasons any legitimation of why thiefs should or should not be nerfed.
All 3 reasons are typical features of pvp play.

The fact that for a thief I need to pay more attention than for others, actually proves they should be nerfed…

Please stop this crappy reasoning as to how thiefs fill that special role to help us poor sods in staying awake in pvp.

What I explained for 1 goes for all 3 reasons.
Thiefs are no more reason than the next one stopping by to kill me. If they are, according to your reasoning, than that just proves they are too strong in comparison to others.

B. Second part: pro players have shown…
But to burst someone down as a thief, you don’t need to be a pro player.

That’s another reason why your argument fails:

if it takes advice of a pro player to counter something a beginning player can do, than there is something seriously unbalanced.

I should add this: I personally don’t know yet if and how thiefs should be nerfed.
I’m just here showing you that you might be a good thief, or ele, or pvp’er, but you’re terrible at justifying why thiefs shouldn’t be nerfed.

Plunder.8195:

You want to have every player and their grandma walking around with the Halloween themed weapons for the rest of the year?
That’s why they are hard to make/get. Same for any other unique skin.

You can still get the temporary skins somewhere in LA if you wish to. Why don’t you use that option?

that works the other way just the same you know: the more special an item is, the longer someone will use it.

If the Halloween or other event items are common, people won’t use them all that long.

My point for making them easier, or at least some pieces, is that you might use a single piece in combination with something else for your character.

People focus a lot on ‘total’ sets when discussing skins. I tend to focus on single pieces I see opportunities for. Creating my own look is part of the story telling aspect of this game (or any other MMO I tried, not that many).

Having gear diversity isn’t that much of a strain on ‘content’ I think.

I don’t really care if Wow has more by itself, as most of it is utterly not my style anyhow.
Wow can be extremely cartoonish and silly in gear, but when you have other options, you can pick and chose.
So the point is: diversity in looks gives you options.

I turned my hunter in WoW into a moon huntress-priestess in pve and a forrest stalker in pvp for example, but for that I used different pieces from all over the game.

In GW2 I tried to do simular things, but I simply can’t.
Except for the really special looks, my engineer always looks the same, give or take a pvp hat.
But I can’t combine here in a way it makes a difference.

GW2 obviously sold itself as a game where the looks, and skins, are very important. opposed to the stats and all that.
So new game or not, I was hoping for more diversity in those looks.

I like some of the things my characters wear, but when I see other pieces I can hardly see a very big difference.

Important note: the dying system is brilliant and by itself offers a lot of possibilities.

My view on this:

I try feel unique with my characters by making original combinations.
Those can include rare pieces, but that’s not necessary as such.
it’s the combo that makes it stand out, for me.

This is exactly my problem with the gear in this game.
For a game being ALl focused on the looks or skins of gear and weapons, I find very little variety to work with for creating a personal look.

Most sets look simular, and what’s worse: those few sets that have pieces that stand out, are usually very hard to obtain.
‘Hard’ bieng: it takes ages or tons of mats, or gold, or incredible luck, etc.

I don’t mind having lots of gear in the game that is so hard to get.

I do mind having so little options with gear that isn’t hard to get.

As for WoW, where the diversity is immensely bigger I’m sad to admit. Bit weird that a game like Wow has so much more gear variety than a game like GW2 that is based on the skins as incentive for everything.
WoW has a ton of very ugly gear in my view, but it has more variety and that’s important for me.

Not all ‘skins’ in WoW (so basically transmogging pieces) are that easy to get by the way.
I can spend more time chasing one elusive low lvl chestpiece i want for transmogging, than it takes me to win a raid roll on the latest set piece.
If you’re discussing skins and looks in GW2, you need to take the transmogging route when comparing to WoW, not the raid gear grind route

I really wish I could obtain a lot more interesting little pieces in GW2 that would allow me to make unique combinations.

Halloween could help for that, since the looks stand out from the rest for example (at least some do).
I see it as a missed opportunity that event gear should be so hard to get as well.
It’s an event, let the players have some fun gear without much hasstle for a change.

Holliday events are the ideal way to introduce several different pieces that people can use.

In short: I find the game very lacking in easy to obtain gear that has variety in looks.
Not even talking about special looks, just a bit more different looks…

Shrapnel.7056

I couldn’t agree more. Another this to bring up is that this is the first part introduced so far. There are 3 more acts to play in next few days. To much unappreciated grief in my opinion. IF YOU DONT LIKE EVENT THEN DONT PLAY PEOPLE!

In all fairness Shrapnel, I think the OP’s entire point is that he WANTED to play the event, but had TROUBLE finding his way around .

Caps is sort of fun, I should do that more I think, but this aside

MithranArkanere.8957:

Hey, frank and blunt is a style.

Asura style.

Of course it is!

I don’t mind frank or blunt as such.
It’s all in how you do it

Rika.7249:

guide.1487:

Google it isn’t a sign of a very poor game design, google it is a sign of a very poor game community.

+1 to this.

People are being far too lazy and expect everything handed over to them.
People really don’t like needing to think anymore in games >.<

‘google it’ as an answer, also shows the agressiveness of players these days, when somebody asks for info or help.
It cuts both ways in showing how poor the gaming community can be.

Many posts here as well: it’s one thing to mention how you discovered it all by yourselves, but apparantly it’s also needed to insult the OP over this in many different ways.

Not saying the OP wasn’t biased himself in his post.
But some of the reactions here show the true face of the player behind it, regardless of the OP being wrong or not.

The GW2 community is becoming this elite club of insiders that think they are privileged to insult anyone who questions anything.
I thought the WoW pvp forums were as bad as it could get. So i was unpleasantly surprised to find out these forums come dangerously close to that level at times.

And for those saying i should get out than: not a chance. I paid for the game, just as all the others, I’m playing it, I’m staying on the forums till i’m done with it all.
Just as a small note for some who would prefer to have me gone as well

And I’m not generalising: to the many players that aren’t aggressive or insulting I gladly say: feel free to disagree, as long as we can do it in style.

Balancing around one game mode gives just as much issues as balancing around several…
This game should support ‘balanced’ builds, all rounders, instead of creating new holy trinity’s.

It’s true that if they introduce, for example, 5 game modes, that there will be like 2 or 3 really popular ones. 1 or 2 with mixed feelings and at least one hated by most.
But is that really enough reason not to introduce them at all?

Capture point only goes so far for me…

WvW isn’t balanced in any way or form, and the free server transfers are completely ruining it beyond that in terms of balance.
I love the idea, I don’t like the implementation at all.
Join the best server, win.
join the biggest zerg, win.

Simple answer to the OP’s issue:
yes it lacks variety for me too, a lot of it!

because the size differences between the races are rather big, I am in favour of cast bars.
Just throwing that in here.

Balance isn’t there yet, but not going to comment on that one.

In general I think spvp is a mess indeed, it needs some serious attention fast.

I have 4 main issues:

1. pvp lacks variety in this game. Only one game mode doesn’t cut it for the launch of a so called pvp game.

2. spvp puts 8v8 on a 3 point map, causing all sorts of issues just by these numbers. It is anything but strategic.

3. the point system doesn’t reward defending or strategic play in general. It rewards zerging and kill-hunting.

4. in tpvp premades face pugs.
Paid tounraments wo’t change that by itself: the premades still need a testing ground for builds and comps… and that will be tpvp against pugs.

I’m not saying the balancing is good, because I fear it isn’t, from my limited experience. But balancing is being looked at in minor baby steps, and that’s something at least.

All in all, I feel like playing a pvp beta where the real stuff for the launch isn’t included yet…

I should mention it, since it’s technically pvp too:
WvW is ‘fun’ but is it really pvp for the most part?
I don’t consider massive zergs of players crushing smaller zergs of players really pvp, it feels like pve more, even if it inolves players.
Sometimes it can be good, often it’s a mess. Smaller teams are great fun, but you need the level and gear for that.
And for some reason they didn’t level that in terms of gear and such, real odd.

I’m more on the disapointed side of things.

Don’t get me wrong: the area’s are great, the freedom while leveling is superb.

The game lacks a bit of ‘fun and sillyness’ perhaps, just in between the rest, but it’s not that that element isn’t there at all. It’s there, but rather minor.

My biggest issue: respawn rates and rather empty mid level zones… I like seeking challenges alone, even in an MMO, and that’s nearly impossible because of these two reasons.

Anyhow: leveling and such: great, not perfec.

My first disapointment is that downscaling only works half, and that there is little to no incentive to go to lower area’s as max level.
This was a major selling point for me: I wanted the world to be big even when outgearing it all. I wanted it all to be challenging as well.

My other major disapointment is the total lack of pvp variety.
A game selling itself as pvp game that has only one game mode.
I still can’t grasp that notion. I had no idea before I came here, I didn’t inform myself about the pvp variations because I simply assumed there would be plenty… boy, was I wrong.

And in that one game mode, the spvp is a zerging mess because they throw 8v8 on a 3 point map. On top of that the point system doesn’t even reward strategic play, it rewards selfish play.

As for tpvp: a lot better of course, aside one little detail: premades vs pugs? Seriously?
And paid tournies won’t change that since the premades will still be testing comps etc in tpvp.

This isn’t a pvp game by my standards. It’s not even balanced yet, partly because of that one game mode making some builds better than others.

Pvp simply feels like a beta to me.

Is it a great game?
of course.

Am I disapointed?
Sadly yes.

note: depending on how they handle the ‘BLC affair’ the next days, I might or might not be disapointed in the goldselling business this company throws in your face in the game itself (50 chests, 5 keys if lucky… that sort of thing)

They can’t turn back the clock.
At least they are doing something about it, and it’s just been a day.

Of course some people will feel left out because they destroyed all in the chests.
While others will be angry they bought their skins in game for gold.
Those that said the buyers knew what they were in for, should now also realise the ones buying the skins for gold knew what they were in for…

But personally I feel sorry for those inevitable ones who will be left out in any proposed solution. There will be some, always.

One thing strikes me as funny though: the same people who been defending Anet through all of this are now popping up to say how they resent Anet for giving in?
Bit odd…

As I said before: this is not about who is right or who is wrong.
It’s about doing bad business if something (legit or not) disapoints your best paying customers, those willing to spend extra cash in the shop.

Anet took only one day before reacting and announcing the outlines of a solution.
I give them credit for that.
Maybe they do it out of sincere regret they messed up, maybe they just do it because they are worried for future sales.
Either way: they are reacting and seem to take steps in setting as much right as they can.

That’s about all they can do, since the damage is done.
Reacting only a day after the ‘BLC affair’ is pretty decent in timing.

Now let’s see what the details of the solution will be.

Rainfall.4017:

azurrei.5691:

BAMFZILLA.1850:

“Between October 23 and November 5 each Black Lion Chest you open has a chance to give you one of six exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!”

People that feel they got ripped off knew going in that there was a chance of getting a skin. Nobody knew entirely what that chance was only that there was a chance.

You guys should’ve stopped and thought for a second “is my hard earned money really worth just a chance?” like me and I’m sure everyone else who decided not to buy keys and chests did. Arenanet didn’t rip you off, you ripped yourself off.

I’m not a fanboy, I could give 2 kitten how successful guild wars 2 does. I’ve already gotten my 200 hours of playtime and $60 worth so if it tanks it doesn’t effect me, but the ignorance of people on this forum is extremely obnoxious.

In all fairness, “chance” is extremely vague.

People assumed maybe 2-5% drop rate, which is already LOW.

In reality, it is a fraction of that – which is ridiculous. However, now that people know the super low odds of special BLC drops – most people will never again bother with buying keys.

Anet’s loss in the end.

Oh my god. It’s hard to keep my temper now because of you people. CHANCE is exactly what it says. A CHANCE. You don’t know what people assumed, and it’s irrelevant. You DIDN’T KNOW the chance, but there is a chance. There was no bullkitten and you got what you paid for.???? Why you people can’t accept this fact i cannot fathom.

Once again you can be disappointed but it is TOTALLY FAIR AND LEGIT. You only have yourselves to blame, that’s it. Stop blaming Anet for your disappointment about your risk, look at yourselves.

keep screaming there is no problem, it will solve things.

Anet = company
Many customers = angry
this = problem
you = yelling and not seeing problem

like it or not, it is a problem they have to deal with.
no company can afford to kitten of so many paying customers and simply say ’it’s your own bloody fault’.
They need those customers…

robber.4613:

Welcome to life. Get used to it.

I actually think the people at Anet take this very serious, regardless of the fact if they think they did something wrong or not. I still am convinced that any business company would ring the alarm when their customer base suddenly explodes in complaints like this.

simply accepting bad fortune without seeing it as a problem that can be adressed, is rather weak I think.
Try to solve it first, roll over when you can’t

That would depend on the answer Louis S

proxy.3297:

1000 posts and 32k views and no updated response. i am getting increasingly angry at arenanet’s failure to address this issue. what ever happened to caring about your customers??? they better be ready for this kittentorm that is coming.

It’s one thing that the forums exploded over this, but give them some time to react

We’re all waiting for an answer yes, but be reasonable. It’s not even a full day.

If they don’t answer in 1 or 2 days I might be as angry as you, but give them a day at least.

Snipps.1532:

Kimbald.2697:

nldixon, it’s a bit more than splitting hairs on the b2p or f2p thing i’m afraid:

they sold 2 million copies, so b2p in my explanation but call it whatever you want

Important is that this was way more than they anticipated or ‘needed’ for their costs made.

So because it is indeed b2p and only 2 months in the game, and because the sales were so high… they didn’t need to milk the cash shop this harsh, so early.
They didn’t need the income badly yet. more money is always good for a company, but it is way too soon to say they needed it so bad they should risk disapointing their most paying customers.

The money gained wasn’t needed enough to risk the reputation lost.

I respectfully disagree with your main thought. Unless we know Anet’s business model, what their operating costs were and are, what they have already begun work on for future content, the staffing requirements etc. then we can’t know what they need in the way of income. We have no idea what their investment is in the future of the game and where it’s coming from. Basically, we can’t make definitive statements like the last one above without knowing the financial details of Anet beyond broad numbers thrown around from purchases, etc. It would be better to perhaps say you don’t think they should charge this much this soon because it may look bad rather than statements of fact around their need for funding.

point taken, you’re actually right.
I should rephrase it as what i consider to be very bad looking in the public’s eye.
From a customers point of view it seems greedy and rushed that they started milking the cow this fast after getting all those launch sales.

nldixon, it’s a bit more than splitting hairs on the b2p or f2p thing i’m afraid:

they sold 2 million copies, so b2p in my explanation but call it whatever you want

Important is that this was way more than they anticipated or ‘needed’ for their costs made.

So because it is indeed b2p and only 2 months in the game, and because the sales were so high… they didn’t need to milk the cash shop this harsh, so early.
They didn’t need the income badly yet. more money is always good for a company, but it is way too soon to say they needed it so bad they should risk disapointing their most paying customers.

The money gained wasn’t needed enough to risk the reputation lost.

nldixon.8514:

Kimbald.2697:

Where does this F2P argument keep coming from?

The game is barely 2 months old, we paid more by buying the game than we would for a sub fee for those 2 months. Can only become better value in time of course, granted.

2 months in, we get this total sale of the gem shop at this event, cashing in massively for the company again.

But people say it’s free to play.
B2P is not F2P.

If it really was F2P than a cash shop is about the only resource for direct player income.
But it’s not… we already paid.

Of course they need more money, and the shop is a good way for that.
But since it’s B2P and not F2P they should have held back on the cashing in a bit…

You can’t go around pissing of your best paying customers just like that, you need them for future income still.

You don’t HAVE to spend a single dollar. You can buy the skins that people are selling on the BLTC. You can spend gold you make in game to buy gems for the BLTC.

The game, aside from the initial purchase, is F2P.

‘aside from the initial purchase’ is what makes it not F2P but Buy to play.
Especially when only 2 months in.

On the other point you’re right: no one was forced to buy something from the shop.
Just remember that those who did are the ones supporting the game the most.

Whiskeyjack, when you bought something on the GW1 shop, what were the odds than?

people were right to believe those would be the odds for GW2 as well.

And i stated it before:

all they needed to do is add some minor event rewards, candy corn and sillyness.
Maybe a few pieces of common Halloween town clothing. Just put things related to halloween in each chest.
Make the buyers feel they gotten something at least, make them giggle and smile at their silly price.

Than all of this would have been avoided.

It’s not about what was right or wrong, it’s about how things are percieved.
They gave a good example of doing bad business.

Where does this F2P argument keep coming from?

The game is barely 2 months old, we paid more by buying the game than we would for a sub fee for those 2 months. Can only become better value in time of course, granted.

2 months in, we get this total sale of the gem shop at this event, cashing in massively for the company again.

But people say it’s free to play.
B2P is not F2P.

If it really was F2P than a cash shop is about the only resource for direct player income.
But it’s not… we already paid.

Of course they need more money, and the shop is a good way for that.
But since it’s B2P and not F2P they should have held back on the cashing in a bit…

You can’t go around pissing of your best paying customers just like that, you need them for future income still.

Whiskeyjack.4569:

Kevlon.2341:

Wow this is disappointing for sure. All the people who are saying its your fault for buying the keys…maybe it is but if you think about it, all the people that actually were willing to spend their REAL money on gems to buy keys are the same people who would be willing to buy them in the future. Makes logical sense right? So what happens when you screw the people who are willing to use the cash shop? Think about it those who are bashing the people who are “whining”.

We have people claiming they have spent HUNDREDS of dollars on keys. I question if this is a case of pure exaggeration, or a question of lack of common sense.

It actually doesn’t matter in the endif you believe it or not.
Nor does it matter if you (or me) think that it’s a lack of common sense.

It’s about what Anet did in regards to the trust their most paying customers had in them.
Don’t forget we are discussing the players here most willing to invest in the game, the ones willing to cash out.

If those players feel disapointed, rightfully or wrongfully, than as a company you have an issue. And what’s worse: since they are the customers, and you as a company are the one depending on their support: you’re the one that messed up somewhere, not them.
And this stands even if those customers laked common sense. Anet still relies on them for the future.

Epicsmooth: sales of 2 million. Do you really believe most of those are still playing?

And if the complainers in this 20 page thread are a minority, than the defenders are one as well (and even a smaller one at that).

Out of your 2 million players only a handfull find the game worthy of defending?
Things must be really bad than.

Stop playing with words, if you don’t see there is a genuine problem by now, than you are willingly blind.
I’m not saying that you should agree, or change your opinion on how the dev’s did absolutely nothing wrong.
But don’t dismiss the outcries here. They are important for the furutre of the game you love so much.

Twilight Zone Guy.1487:

I see players threatening to try and destroy this game or at least say its going to die because they can’t get a weapon skin. That’s probably one of the most petty things I’ve seen from gamers in a long time. Maybe they should just make all weapons have the exact same skin. People are getting far too invested in this.

I also see people insulting the very players who were willing to invest extra cash into the game both of them love.

That’s one of the most pitty things I’ve seen from gamers in a long time.

If you still think it’s about weapon skins, think again.
it’s about real money and most of all: it’s about trust.

Nothing good can come of this for the game itself.
At least one side is trying to reason with the dev’s that they made a mistake.
The other side is moslty saying things are fine, and it’s your own fault, while not helping the future of the game one bit.

GW2 has a declining reputation outside these forums, time to wake up. Things need to change for the better, and that can only be achieved by pointing at what is wrong.

nachtnebel.9168:

The downscaling system is one of the best features in GW2. Since you can’t steamroll mobs in low level areas lvl 80 chars don’t go there to farm stuff and therefor don’t mess with the gameplay éxperience of twinks and new players.

but at the same time it leaves many of those area’s rather deserted to level in, while mobs respawn like crazy and event bosses have a zillion hit points…

I like downscaling, even think it’s too weak., but I also think level 80’s should get incentives to go to lower area’s! Not stay out of them… on the contrary.

That’s fair enough Avatar, but they should have considered the simple business rule of always giving your customers the feeling they gained something.

Candy corn, silly towns hats, anything…

They could have avoided this whole mess so easy.
Just give each chest some not so rare silly stuff, and a few towns clothes that would become common indeed, but still…

karma.8763:

the event in the middle of lions arch, isnt supposed to move, it is a countdown towards the last event. holy crap something doesnt work the way i think it should…..IT MUST BE BUGGED rolls eyes.

either the gentleman in red is being funny, or you’re being wrong

rolls eyes at both in case it’s one of the above

adding small rewards in each chest, and a few semi-rare towns clothing skins on a better drop rate than the really rare weapons and such…

I think that’s all it would have taken to prevent this whole uproar.
That simple, I’m afraid: just a few tokens and comfort prizes

Batterybiscuits, without starting anew argument about other things you said, just this one little thing:

this game is not free to play, we actually paid a good ammount for the initial purchase.
We’re hardly 2 months past and than this whole selling business hits us on Halloween.

Doesn’t make things right or wrong, but it does make things slightly different from real f2p games that have no other means of income from the playerbase.

Just throwing that in here, not arguing your post as such.

Awesome.6120:

This could have gone in any of the 20 threads currently running on this topic.

True, but that doesn’t mean it should

In all fairness, even if i’m at the complaining side of the table.
I don’t think we should overdo it on the threads.
It’s good to post our concerns (from both sides) but after a reading all the other posts and threads (I’m in most of them and did read them indeed), I sort of feel I done my critical job and I’ll wait and see what’s next.
Ball is in the dev camp now.

And oddly enough I came to the conclusion of waiting it out after sort of comming to terms with one of my ‘adversaries’ in the threads
(looking at you Dump Truck, we both got carried away at times)

DumpTruck.2945:

I’ll give you the benefit in saying that the majority of the grievers are just doing it because they found it out or think it is funny.

my main concern is that the outcry for a reward for spending a certain amount of money or gold that was spent on a chance at an item is ludicrous. the community is upset yes and in my more recent post i stated that i presume that the devs and PR team may be coming up with a “fix” for this.

it is too soon to tell whether or not they are just trying to make a quick buck or were oblivious. something is going to happen soon and it is too soon to make judgements on the Anet and Ncsoft team.

On that level I can completely relate to what you’re saying.

It’s not ‘too soon’ for me, since i think they already made a big mistake in my eyes. But of course the only important thing from here on is how they will handle the situation next, as you rightfully state.

They can completely turn it around if they want, or simply admit they were wrong here or there and promise to be more clear in the future.
Or they could do nothing… (which I find the least likely scenario).

Currently in the overflow so can’t check the griefers myself yet.

What is a bit dangeorus about the complaints about them is that if you link them too much to the BLC affair, they will become the BLC affair. And than it will get worse, just out of sheer spite.

Without going into much detail, but do you happen to know about the Braindeadly Youtube contract drama a while back?
Doesn’t matter if you don’t, but simple version is: because a WoW hunter movie maker couldn’t get out of a contract with a Youtube company, all of a sudden all his fans started disliking filmclips other game moviemakers produced.
To hurt the company, they massively hurted and ruined clips gamers made. Mass disliking a Youtube clip the minute it is launched, totally ruins it forever by the way.

I would hate such a thing to happen here, that the event is ruined for players because of a mistake or misjudgement the company made.

The people seeing this, do you see messages relating to the BLC affair?
I’ll check in a moment myself, just out of curiosity.

I never liked players griefing other players, even if I’m rather disapointed in the way Anet handled the chest drops and such.

So it’s a serious question: are you sure these players are doing this because of the BLC, or is it just what they consider ‘fun’.
Simply because they ‘can’ is often enough reason for people to do silly things.

DumpTruck.2945:

well if you have read any of the post that has 800+ replies. the general consensus is that the devs took advantage of their addiction to gambling and they prayed on the weak. and now the ones that are “spitting venom” are now in game using exploits to block other players from enjoying the other 90% of the event. the BLC were just a small fraction of the event and now we can’t enjoy the rest.

that’s not the general consensus, that’s you highlighting the posts you handpick.

The whole addiction thing to gambling was a side track of a few posts, not the large majority at all.

Spitting venom suggests we’re griefing without reason.
You’re spitting venom with your very post of exagerating… if people don’t agree they often don’t take the other serious, as you fall to now.

I’m not sure who the npc blockers and such are in the game right now.
But the more you link them to the people complaininghere, the more it will become the outlet to do so. Enforcing it yourself here.

You might want to consider that things like blocking npc’s simpl start because someone discovers that they can. Simple as that. It’s fun for many.
Just like you seem to exagerate and pull things out of proportion here, it seems fun for you as well to grief others when they disagree with you.

It’s clear I’m rather against the whole affair, I’ve proven that rahter a lot tonight.
But i can guarantee you I would never ever grief another player over it in game.
So let it be very clear, that if they are indeed the very griefers of the BLC affair, that i don’t support them ruining the game experience of others.
Their beef is with Anet, not the players.

I try to reason with inflamatory people like you here on the forums where the discussion belongs.

And it’s not about how big a % the BLC affair is in the total event, that’s besides the point.
It’s about getting in-game drop rates, when you’re invited to spend real money for event items.
People don’t accept the same low drop chance as they do in the game itself, not when they are spending real money on it.
That’s the heart of the matter.

If this many customers are not happy, something was done wrong. If you think they are right or wrong isn’t relevant to them.
Companies shouldn’t do things that make their most paying customers this angry.

SmOkE.2805:

Here is a hint for everyone and anyone complaining: It’s a “GAME” if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Don’t try to get a skin from a BLC. Do dungeons, PVP, WvW. Don’t participate in the Halloween event, then guess what, you have nothing to kitten about…

Pretty effin simple….

the complaints are about the real money. Real money isn’t ‘a game’.
The mistake made here was that they thought people would accpet the same droprates for real money event items, as they do for dungeon drops or so.
reality check: they don’t.

And to take your own advice: it’s a FORUM. if you don’t like people saying things you don’t want to hear, don’t read them. Just as effin simple I would say.

DumpTruck.2945:

Anet did not keep the odds hidden, they told the community in their post that there would be a chance at getting items from the chests. “a chance” automatically makes it a gambling mechanic and the community decided that they were not going to accept they were gambling in the first place. that is their own fault. you don’t walk up to a casino or a liquor store to buy a lottery ticket and see the odds of winning clearly stated in bold words. your gambling and you know you are gambling. and everyone is kitten that they wasted all their money QQ. you made the choice and its time to face the consequences..

Anet had a history in GW1

When they sad ‘a chance’ it’s safe to assume it were the same odds they used before.
It weren’t the same odds…

Just stating a RARE chance would have been good.

And in all honesty: if they bothered to include plenty of minor rewards, people wouldn’t feel so left out.
This whole thing was conducted as a badly designed, hasty and greedy event.
They could have done so much better, for little more effort.

They messed up this one, they conducted themselves like the first cheap money grabbing MMo out there… and they are better than that.
Big mistake on their part, and sadly so: this game deserves better than this controversy.

DumpTruck.2945:

gambling is gambling. end of story.

actually no.

The odds matter, not end of story without including the odds at wich you gamble.

GW1 odds were different from these…

HornetOne.1640:

Kimbald.2697:

It’s also a ‘hoot’ that those defending the game are ignoring the fact so many paying customers were severly disapointed.

This is beyond right or wrong: it’s bad business to kitten of those customers who pay the most…

You might disagree with the complaints, you’re very entitled to do so.

But if you think that that makes the problem less, than you’re mistaken.
If something stirs up so much complaints with your most paying customers, than you did something wrong as a company.
Reputation is everything for an MMO.

People are disappointed because they are not mathematically literate.

Its not their fault to a certain extend, but it doesn’t make them right.

If you want to say people are disapointed because they are too stupid to realise how gambling works, be my guest. It says more about you than them…

They are disapointed.

Why doesn’t even matter anymore.
People are mathematically literate enough to realise it was a chance game.
But they expected better odds, that’s all.
GW1 shop had better odds for example. Not gicving the same odds without warning is misleading people.

But as I said: right or wrong are less important by now.
if a company manages to cause this uproar with that supportive group of players that were willing to spend real cash in the shop, than they did something wrong.
You can say these people are too stupid (that’s what you did with your terms), but that doesn’t change anything.

People who are economically literate know that pissing of your best paying customers is a bad deal, no matter how misinformed and stupid they are.

The majority doesn’t have to be right if you try to sell them something in the future…

dahkot.3579:

Spendrik.2961:

I don’t get it. Players decide to throw good money after bad over some pixels, then decide that Anet, a profit-driven enterprise when I last checked, is doing the wrong thing?

It’s not their fault man , they couldn’t help it , ArenaNet forced them to.

simple question: did Anet gain customers here today, or did they lose customers for the gem shop?

as I said: what you or me think about the whole ‘gambling’ thing isn’t the issue.
It’s the simply the question wheter or not they made their customer base angry or not.
They did, even if you think that this angryness is unjustified. But your opinion doesn’t change that.

Many paying customers are angry.
That means the company made a wrong decision.

This reflects on the reputation of the game.
Reputation for an MMO is everything.

It’s also a ‘hoot’ that those defending the game are ignoring the fact so many paying customers were severly disapointed.

This is beyond right or wrong: it’s bad business to kitten of those customers who pay the most…

You might disagree with the complaints, you’re very entitled to do so.

But if you think that that makes the problem less, than you’re mistaken.
If something stirs up so much complaints with your most paying customers, than you did something wrong as a company.
Reputation is everything for an MMO.

That’s the sad and only truth:

they disapointed exactly those people who supported them financially the most.

Speaking of ’it’s your choice’: if it’s the customers choice to vent their disapointmentthis much, you better wonder what went wrong… instead of complaining about the ‘whiners’.

Forums are for feedback. Why do you even bother to complain about feedback others are giving?
Who made you the judge of what feedback is justified and what is not?

You like the game. Great.
That’s about all that is relevant here.

Zyrusticae.7245:

I don’t understand why AN didn’t just take the point system from LoL’s Dominion – 5 points every 10 seconds for sitting on a point defending it, 10 points for dying on a point to defend it (martyr bonus) would help tremendously in justifying point defense to players as opposed to the current method which really feels kitten.

it could be that simple…

Well, that and reducing the points for a skirmisher kill.
How can that be rewarded more than a kill on an enemy node? That’s asking for people to neglect objectives.

If it was a gamble, than Anet gambled and lost.

Now way in hell are they going to sell this many chests again, ever…

They made a quick buck, they have plenty of supporters calling zeverybody who wasted money fools.
But they did lose trust here, a lot of it.

And for those who might not know: the reputation of this game is not very good, outside of these forums (and even here…).
GW2 isn’t reviewed all that good on other MMO forums (not related to a specific game).
Many things are critised.
Heck, even the live streams can’t draw viewers like they should.

In this light, the general reputation of GW2 in the world of MMO’s, this latest money grabbing event, isn’t going to go down well.

From now on when mentioning GW2 outside of these forums, expect it to be called out for a money hungry Korean (or whatever) MMO.

You might agree with this or not.
But it’s a very bad thing for the game. Reputation is everything for a MMO.
GW2 got big on the reputation of GW1, just to show how reputation matters a lot for the sales of a game.
Anet had a great standing with it’s playerbase. today they insulted the part of their base most willing to spend money on their game.
(as others have pointed out as well, and got equal flame for it as I will)

Logan.2706:

I did not mean to anger anyone. I just thought it would be a productive suggestion that’s all.

It was.

All those shouting that the complainers are spoiled brats and such, seem to neglect we’re talking trust in a company here.

Your idea could restore some of the lost trust.

That’s way more important than being right or wrong.

Many Anet customers are unhappy today, specifically those customers who supported the game the most financially.

People can call those supporting paying cxcustomers whiners if they want, that doesn’t change the fact that Anet did bad business here.
This many posts with complaints isn’t ‘whining’ or ‘being right to complain’… it’s mostly a sign something went wrong between company and customer.

Your idea is a wonderful way to regain some of that trust.

The least they could have done is add a mid-level rarity of items, no weapons but town clothing only.
Things that wouldn’t be all that uncommon to see, but people would still like it a lot more than getting nothing Halloween related at all.

And throw in lots and lots of silly candy, small fun items of whatever kind, consumables, etc…
Give every chest a small consolation prize, a silly nothing that at least proves it’s a Halloween chest you opened.

Do these 2 and the complaints about not getting the real rares would have been much less.

I would go about it in a rather simple way:

first: set out 3 categories of items inside

1. rare: these are the current ones: skins that are as hard to get as legendaries
They are COMBAT gear skins, and weapons of course

2. ‘rather rare’: these look a bit like more common gear, but are still inspired by the theme somewhat. these you’ll find on plenty of people.
These are like the current town gear skins

3. silly, consumable and all over the place: transforms, candy, flying effects, whatever…

During the event, cash shop sells things in this fashion:

a) If you buy 5 chests (or keys…) you are guaranteed one item of category 2, the ‘rather rare’ town clothing pieces.

b) Each chest can contain another of these rather rare category 2 items.
let’s say a 1/10 chance.
They may not contain them at all, your only guarantee is the 5 chest bonus above.

c) on top of that each chest has a 1/100 chance to contain the category 1, the extremely rare ones.
This way the weapon and combat gear skins remain elusive and hard to get.

d) every chest ALWAYS contains a bunch of the sillyness of category 3.
As well as normal chest items any BLC has of course.

Everybody wins here:

Giving people a small consolation prize is always a winning strategy for ‘feel good’ business doing.

The chances of getting fun town clothing is quite good.

You always get something if you spend at least 5 chests.
No one can complain about lottery or gambling.

The rare items remain just that: extremely rare and special. But at least the way to get them is more fun than opening box after box that contains nothing of the event at all.