Guild Wars 2

This whole thread proves something very clear.
And it’s not who is right or who is wrong.

It proves that it doesn’t even matter which side is right:

the people who are complaining are exactly those people who supported Anet by buying chests.
They are the customers they rely on beyond initial purchase of the game.

Well, it’s clear they kitten them of somewhat

That’s not smart business. And it puts the game in a very bad light.

If you kitten of your best paying customers, it hardly matters if others come to defend you.
You made a bad decision at that point.
And this goes beyond who is right or wrong in this thread.

This would actually be a wonderfull solution, where Anet would be the greatest winner.

They already ‘won’ by selling this many chests.

Giving all the dismayed players something in return would cost them next to nothing to implement it.
Here the players win.

When the players feel like Anet took their concerns seriously, and doesn’t want to be a money grabbing cash shop MMO, it will reflect positively on the future.
Here Anet wins again.

And for all thoe opposed to this: consider that Anet managed to kitten of a large majority of the people who actually wanted to spend MORE cash on their game, beyond the initial purchase cost!
Right or wrong, gambling or calculated… this is a very silly thing to do as a B2P game.

Making amends might not be justified for all here, but it sure would be smart!

My engineer clicked a lot when I was using grenades #1…

Kathmandu.2417:

Kimbald, I am quite sure that such ingame random drops are not gambling in the strict legally sense.

And again, if you want to get some skins for sure then buy gems exchange them to gold and buy the skins from the market. Or make gold directly ingame. You don’t have to gamble or involve real money at all. It’s your personal free choice.

when people say they feel cheated, the argument is: it was a gamble, you should have nown (you used that very argument).

Now that I reply gambling has rules that weren’t followed here, it’s no longer gambling…

It’s not legally gambling by the way, unless you can prove that the winnings have a direct money value. In other words: you need to prove the rare skins can be sold for real money.
They can, but you can’t prove that this is their intention as reward.
So i doubt it legally is gambling indeed.

But if the argument is used to defend this whole business, I gladly supply the counter arguments saying that it’s not a fair way of gambling.

To be honest: I don’t care one bit how rare or how hard to get an in-game item is.
I don’t mind I’m not getting them, and I don’t feel obliged to chase them.

But they crossed a fine line here.

If people are invited to spend real money, and given the way these things were handled in GW1, one would expect to get something in return.
Not for every dollar or euro spend, but at least something once you spend 15, 20, 30 dollars or more…

It makes the game look like a cheap Asian MMO, while it should be different from those.
And I apologie to the Asian MMO’s that don’t use a shop model as basis

I understand many of the arguments given, and I understand it’s not the end of the world.
But it’s real money.
People don’t take this as light as game money, or drop rates of dungeons, and other hard ways to aquire rare items.

People feel cheated, that’s the bottom line.

Saying they shouldn’t be, doesn’t do much.
Anet should be very weary of stepping on the toes of their loyal customers actually spending their real money on their game…

GW2’s reputation isn’t all that good if you look outside this game community itself.
It’s not what it is hyped up to be, that’s the general consensus these days on boards outside the game itself.
From today on it’s also a Asian (sorry again) money grabbing MMO.
Bad publicity, real bad.

thetoetag.5183:

People need to lighten up or atleast understand how gambling works before they start dumping money into BLCs.

Gambling law dictates that you announce the chance of winning.
That’s how gambling works.

Not to mention the same developpers used a much better rate of winning in GW1, which most people figured would be used here as well.

2 cases of misleading or holding back important information.

When you gamble you should indeed know the chances of losing are very real, and very high…

But if that is the excuse for what is happening here, I’ll tell you this:

my country, and many other countries, have strict laws on gambling.
Basic rule is that even for the smallest scratch ticket, you are obliged to announce the chances of winning.
Every chance game, every gamble, can be calculated what the actual chance of winning is.

Anet knew.
they decided not to tell and let people believe it was the same chance of winning they used in GW1. They didn’t say so, but what else would you expect but the same rate of winning they used in the past?

I’ve said it before: rare drops in the game is one thing.
As soon as real money is involved, people expect something better.

In GW1 when buying something from the store, a ‘chance’ to win something meant something completely different.
It was a reasonable chance while still involving some luck.
Fair trade of, it made Anet look good.

That’s what they used now, except not mentioning that ‘chance’ had changed meaning over time in GW2…

In GW1 the chances of getting something out of what you bought for real money were rather high.

They used this trust to sell chests now.

But all of a sudden the droprates are as low as in-game rare drops?

When people buy things for real money, you best give them something for their money.
if not the big price, than at least a few smaller prices…

Kathmandu, without debating endlessly over subjective opinions, do consider this:

if the main feedback about a holliday event, the very day it’s launched, is a 10 page thread full of customers who feel wronged, while your supportive threads hardly reach a page… than you did something wrong.

I didn’t buy keys and never will, it’s not about ‘my’ loss.

It’s not even an argument that all these complainers are wrong to do so or not.

It’s the simple fact that if you run a shop and one day a crowd of angry customers show up at your door, it’s time to ask ourself what you did wrong.

Maybe it’s all defendable, maybe it’s all ‘open for interpretation’.
But fact of the matter is that people feel cheated out of real money.
You can easily do this in game with low drop rates and such, but once real money is involved, it’s different.

Anet made it sound a lot better than it was, the whole ‘improved Black Lion chest’ announcement.
Did they lie? No.
Did they make it sound too good and too available? Yes, else the outcries wouldn’t be so loud and many.
And mostly: as mentioned above: people expected the same droprate as in GW1. That’s the trust Anet abused to sell so many chests now.

When a mass screams murder, i’m the first to wonder if they’re still being critical and fair.
But when your goal is selling something to that mass yelling at you… it’s time to question yourself more than them.

Kathmandu.2417:

NinjaKnight.1340:

The way they promote it in the BLTC it sounds like you will likely get something.

“The Black Lion Chest is getting a spooky upgrade for Halloween. Between October 23 and November 5 each Black Lion Chest you open has a chance to give you one of six exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!”

I don’t read anything about “likely” in the official statement. You do?

Doesn’t exactly sound like it’s only a very slim chance either…

People accept low drop rates in the game itself, not when they pay real money.
Anet had their trust, given the reputation of the shop in GW1.
They failed that trust with these droprates.

When customer trust is gone, no reasoning about chance rates, lottery or splitting words in announceents will restore the damage done.
They messed up here, even though it made them tons of money in short term. In the long run, they lost the trust of many of their customers.

GW2’s reputation isn’t all that good at the moment, in general ‘MMO land’.
This isn’t helping one bit.

Oreoz.2573:

CaptSlate.6205:

Oreoz.2573:

CaptSlate.6205:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go that in depth in my analysis. However, I will say this. If the price of the GS stabillizes at or below 25g, in this high demand environment, the system will work just fine, because it is then accessible to most of the player base and supply is meeting demand.

But again, isn’t this whole ordeal in relation to what will happen to the market place NEXT, not what is happening now? Why 25g is that some magic number? I admit that 25g seems like price point that would be accessible to a group of people with the resources to achieve such a price point, however, what about people that cannot achieve this price point in the next 14 days or how ever long the event runs? Are these people expendable, are they to be laughed at for attempting to achieve their goal of getting the item they wanted via “legit” means ergo those means set forth by Anet and not the player market?

Well for the people that can’t afford that in time (like myself) I say “congratulations on existing. I’m sorry Anet can’t cater to everyone but they do have to make money.”

Not everyone’s gonna get the skin they want. Which is too bad. If they spent money they spent money (again, like myself) but the game is F2P.

I’ll say it again, the game is F2P

One bad night of spending is going to be made up for in spades throughout the life of the game.

All I can say to people who didn’t win out is “too bad” and “try again next year”

What does that entail exactly? I have heard the moniker of the game is F2P, F2P, F2P, but what does that entail? Are your expectations of F2P (which you did buy the game for 60 dollars let me remind you), different from other peoples? Of course they are! You can’t say they aren’t! It’s a real shame that this issue is being lost in, “they have to make money” There are quite a few ways they could make money without having to rely on a RNG, assume for a second that, everything Potato says is true about how in demand the GS Saw is (and I know it is in high demand) Think if they had priced it at 5 dollars, no they would not have made as much from this as their Black Lion Keys, but they wouldn’t have lost the trust of people either.

Trust is more important in the long run in business operations than money ever is, trust is money my friend. Again, though I’m all over the, sorry I lost, yeap cool, I’ll get over it, it’s the people that won’t get over that hurts ANet in the long run, and it hurts us too. Lost confidence = lost sales = lost money to spend on playing players.

Yeah, they’re not losing out on anything here.
Everyone can talk trust and lost sales and blah blah blah.

But lets all face facts here.

You’re mad. I’m mad. Some other folk are mad.

But guess what?

They’re makin money.
And will continue to make money.
And will do it in ways you like, and in ways you don’t like.

This one little halloween event isn’t going to put them in the sinker and they’ll probably do it again next year.

The overwhelming confidence I guess some players had in those chests for this thing was obviously misplaced. Lessons will be learned and their money WILL be spent in other ways.

Yeah, Anet isn’t going to be hurting from this no matter which way any of us decide to slice it in our bitter rage.

I mean, that’s the truth.

What is the reason for GW2’s succes?
It’s the reputation they build up with GW1.

What is the reason they sold so many chests for this event?
it’s the reputation of good business models they used in GW1.

Will they ever be able to do something simular starting on the same base of player trust?
You seem to say they will, I say they won’t be able to.

All true, but in my country every game of chance has to list the calculated odds.

That’s where they went wrong.

That doesn’t mean YOU will win, but at least the general outcome would be clearer from the start.

It’s not about maths, it’s about doing good business.
Anet didn’t make themselves trustworthy for future sales here. They seem to realise that now and are already announcing adjustments (or at least that they’ll look into things)

Maths and calculating chance, is just a small side of the story.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Krighton.2138:

Ugh, you all that are posting photos of fully clothed females characters don’t get it, or are missing the point.

Yer not gettin’ the point; alotta us women don’ wanna look like strippers in the game, we wan’ armor what looks good, but attractive. (not titillating)

I’m quite fond of my armor pictured above, thank you very much, and if anything want more armor what takes cues from that … elegant, yet unrevealing.

I fully understand that.
But why not have it all?

By no means should you be forced to look skimpy, or anything else you don’t like. But what the armor in this game mostly lacks is variation.
Especially the medium armor.

I don’t want to look like I fell of a wagon at Rio carnaval, but having some options of revealing a leg or some cleavage (to call things by their name for clarity), while still maintaining an overall ‘normal’ look isn’t asking too much. It’s basically how most ‘normal’ women dress in real life too.
Which doesn’t mean real women ‘should’ dress like this at all.

All i’m saying is: add variety, give us more to combine and be creative.

Some will always gor for most skimpy, some will go for most fierce.
personally I will always look to create my own ‘sets’ which are inspired by themes (moon priestess, forrest hunter, things like that… anything that comes up in my imagination).
This game gives me very little to play with in that regard. Not to mention for being a game about aestethic rewards, it’s rather difficult to get some of the more distinct looking pieces.

People can accept low droprates on in-game items a lot better than on things they paid real money with.
It was foolish to believe people wouldn’t get upset over spending real money in return for droprates as low as dungeon drops or worse…

Any game of chance should mention the odds of winning, they messed up there as well.

I understand some of the arguments defending this whole issue. Not all, just some

But one thing should be very very clear, seeing the number of posts about this very thing, this fast:
this is bad publicity, very bad publicity.

The fact there already was an official response points that out too. They don’t want so much disappointed customers.
It might have gained them a lot of money over this event, they just ruined their future income of events to come. By a large margin.

Bad publicity, and bad business in the long run.

And this is even completely regardless of who is right and who is wrong.
When the larger part of your customers is angry, they are always right in an economical sense.

Warscythes.9307:

Kimbald.2697:

Warscythes.9307:

What? Talking about this page?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

Says clearly here: The Black Lion Chest is getting a spooky upgrade for Halloween. Between October 23 and November 5 each Black Lion Chest you open has a chance to give you one of six exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!

Isn’t this kind of thing common sense anyway? Don’t blame Arenanet if you fail to notice an extremely common business practice in MMOs.

Look, when you see a commercial saying “BUY X NOW FOR A CHANCE TO WIN XYZ!”. Did you honestly expect it to get it easily? No. This is common sense we are talking about, not some nefarious scam to take your money.

The word exclusive means it’s just for Halloween.
The word ‘rare’ or ‘elusive’ would have been clearer.

Look, you have a point: every sales pitch sounds like that, thats what sales pitches are.

But if you think this game can afford falling to the standards of second hand cars salesmen’s salespitches… you’re wrong.
It’s extremely risky for an MMO to disapoint the majority of it’s players, especially when it concerns selling things for real money.

Thin ice, real thin ice…

I am sorry but if people honestly lack the common sense to believe that the skins from a random gamble box is going to be common because of the word “chance”. Then I honestly do not know what kind of world you live in.

The developers made a triple AAA MMORPG with 0 monthly fees and from the looks of it, quality AND frequent updates judging from their plans(Nov big release as well). But because they use the word chance in describing the rate of acquiring skins, now they are somehow trying to squeeze every last drop of your hard earned money.

You guys are killing me here.

@OP

I dislike posting in more than one place, talk on reddit.

Could you stop the argument about ‘no sub fee’ please.

This always makes it sound as if the dev’s are doing us a favour by doing all this.

They aren’t, they’re making money. It’s their job to keep the game running, or they will never sell another game again. or an expansion box for that matter.
You call us naive for believing they would give decent droprates on event items, yet you somehow think that a no sub fee game isn’t about making money?

The moment they have to throw in money to keep the game running, they will pull the plug. Sub fee free or not.
yes they did a great job on many fronts, and no it’s not perfect on all fronts.
But end of the matter is that they are selling a product, not giving us their charity.

I’ll add an example, to show how the ‘sub free’ part really works:
if they pulled this of in GW1, they would never have sold many gems or keys in GW2…

What smart business people do is this: give customers the feeling they win something, no matter how small.

Why do you think many scratch lottery tickets give small ammounts?
To make you feel good and buy more…

They should have stuffed every chest with silly halloween consumables.
Add a lot of temprorary fun items and gear that is exclusive but by no means rare.
And in the midst of all of that fun sillyness, throw in the rare pieces.

Outcries would have been a lot less.

mischwoof.9785:

Kimbald.2697:

mischwoof.9785:

don’t you guys ever think that the drop rate is low because ANet wanted the item to be rare? If everyone got skins from every chest, and everyone was running around with halloween skinned weapons, wouldn’t you feel like it was less of an accomplishment to have one? seriously now :<

Either that, or just that it’s more profitable to sell more keys…

I’m positive A’Net wanted to make the droprate low for our feeling of having something rare. Not because of the sales of keys and such.

Why can’t it be both?

To be honest: I actually believe it is both.
Just not convinced that is a smart thing.

Warscythes.9307:

What? Talking about this page?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

Says clearly here: The Black Lion Chest is getting a spooky upgrade for Halloween. Between October 23 and November 5 each Black Lion Chest you open has a chance to give you one of six exclusive Halloween-themed weapon skins!

Isn’t this kind of thing common sense anyway? Don’t blame Arenanet if you fail to notice an extremely common business practice in MMOs.

Look, when you see a commercial saying “BUY X NOW FOR A CHANCE TO WIN XYZ!”. Did you honestly expect it to get it easily? No. This is common sense we are talking about, not some nefarious scam to take your money.

The word exclusive means it’s just for Halloween.
The word ‘rare’ or ‘elusive’ would have been clearer.

Look, you have a point: every sales pitch sounds like that, thats what sales pitches are.

But if you think this game can afford falling to the standards of second hand cars salesmen’s salespitches… you’re wrong.
It’s extremely risky for an MMO to disapoint the majority of it’s players, especially when it concerns selling things for real money.

Thin ice, real thin ice…

CorpseCake.8431:

It’s a gamble. Its the community’s own fault that they are pouring out their wallets to obtain a skin on an item… ANET gave us no monthly fees so if this makes them more $ so be it..More $ more content.

You’re very correct on that one: it is a gamble, and this game is squeezing out all the money of the gem shop it can.

But more cash, more content is one thing.

Less happy customers, less sales in the future, less content… is also a thing to consider.

shawnd.7802:

Not trying to get forum banned or anything but.. would you really feel like this if it was a pay to play game?

Example:
WoW. You farm one item in WoW for a year while you’re paying $15 a month and never get it.

Not a good comparison I’m afraid.
The WoW gift shop sells everything straight up. No chances, just pay and get it.

What items are or are not hard to get isn’t the issue here.

It’s the fact that people paid for the keys, and that those gave a lot less chance of winning something than was made clear.

WoW rares have nothing to do with this, and neither does sub fee or buy to play.

mischwoof.9785:

don’t you guys ever think that the drop rate is low because ANet wanted the item to be rare? If everyone got skins from every chest, and everyone was running around with halloween skinned weapons, wouldn’t you feel like it was less of an accomplishment to have one? seriously now :<

Either that, or just that it’s more profitable to sell more keys…

I’m positive A’Net wanted to make the droprate low for our feeling of having something rare. Not because of the sales of keys and such.

ReginaBuenaobra.6953:

The PvP team is making sure that the tournament servers are stable before turning on paid tournaments. Paid tournaments will be turned on as soon as the PvP Team has evaluated stability and is satisfied that things are working well. Thanks for your understanding.

From beta till now.
Still not stable?

I’m stretching the sarcasm of course.
I do understand hardware must be ready and all that.
But why does this reply make me feel even more like I’m playing a beta phase of a pvp game?

Vayyy.5420:

LOL at OP, but i mean its pretty obvious why they don’t want to release the paid tournies the same day as the Halloween patch.

They want their players to be spending real money to convert into gems. With paid tournies out right when these things release, everyone will just try to farm paid tournies and not convert rl money into gems.

I’m 100% sure paid tournies are all done and fine to go, its just that they’ll release it when they think people that will spend rl money on gems have finish spending the money.

I somehow doubt paid tournaments will be ‘paid’ by those tickets only.
At a certain point they will run out.

You only have 2 options than:
1. pro pvp’ers need to do normal tpvp for tickets again.

2. tickets can be bought for gems as well.

I expect to see a pvp blog shopping list again soon, with buyable tickets or something.

valdamus.6289:

So one single person makes a thread about a Guardian bug and a devs comes out quick for a fix and also posts twice none the less.. .but another thread with nearly 500 replies concerning the gs change doesn’t even get 1?? I see…

they had the fix ready, so replying here was easy and looks good.
If they don’t have a fix ready, it will be very delicate to reply directly.

It’s nice they answered this one as soon as they did, in the end it was a day before the patch or so. It happened to be on the patch notes already, that’s all.

The Halloween notes reads like a shopping list.

Heart of the Mists looks pretty cool, at least that’s for free

Click the icon, drop at your feet.

Click in the game world and drop at the mouse.

That’s how it works now, might not be ideal but it’s good enough for me in terms of options.

Pvp’ers haven’t left.
Someone will post a screenshot of full pvp servers and all will be fine.

I think they should indeed hurry uip with the paid tournaments.
But at the same time I would like some adjustments to the other forms of pvp as well, if they don’t mind spending time on something that isn’t ‘paid’…

Spvp needs variety, a better point system, new game modes, different player numbers, etc.

tpvp needs to seperate pugs from premades.
Because else you’ll get all the pro teams from the paid tournament running their test comps in tpvp, and pugs will be facing them.
This will ultimately discourage pugs from entering at all (already happening).

So it’s good that people aren’t leaving, as those screenshots will prove. Else we would be in trouble soon.

You touch on the very issue with spvp: it simply doesn’t reward strategic play.
And even worse: it does reward selfish play.

It’s becoming my mantra when discussing spvp:

defending in spvp gets you nothing but killed…

Putting 8v8 on a 3 point map enforces this playstyle.
You never can defend well enough against a big group incomming.
Making spvp 5v5 too would at least force people to think.

Also consider this: a kill on a enemy point gets you 5 points.
A skirmisher kill gets you 10.
And than we’re surprised people run of after the first enemy they see in big groups, ignoring all objectives?

A defender kill gets you 10 points by the way. Good luck getting many of those kills when the enemy zerg is arriving…

I’m extremely disappointed with the way ‘casual’ pvp in this game is designed.
I never thought it could end up worse than WoW, where I come form, but it is.
And WoW random bg’s were already a mess where people got more points from kills than going for objectives.
Here it is even worse, something I never expected.

And that leads me to my other big grief with spvp:
why only that same game mode, over and over and over…?
If there are alternative game modes, at least some will cater better for strategy and team play.

In GW2 it’s basically: play tpvp or forget any form of strategy and team play.
In tpvp it is: put pugs against premades and enter uneven fights every tournament.

And yet the main focus of pvp for the dev’s seems to be on the paid tournaments. Even todays blog only talks about those.
The word ‘paid’ likely being crucial…

Why is ‘free to play’ an argument?
It’s not that they can sell us the game and than say ‘heck, forget fixing anything, they already paid’.

If they don’t keep working on it, the game will suffer, and their next sales will suffer.

As for the changes itself:
bug fixes are not some extraordinary thing they are handing to us, it’s basically fixing the game we already paid for.

This said: it’s nice that they do, but I don’t understand the argument used of ‘a free to play game’.
As if we didn’t spend money on something that should work properly.

So, bug fixing aside, I’m not really sure what more they did.
I catch a few balance tweaks here or there, which are great as well.

Anything beyond that for pvp?

note: don’t get me wrong: it’s always polite to say ‘thanks’, but from what I see it’s moslty within the range of what can be considered the normal maintenance of a game.

I appreciate the fact they didn’t abandon us even though they could since we all paid already… right? This is what the OP is hinting at.
But I sort of consider the pvp changes in the patch as ‘normal maintenace routine’.
I’m missing the special part here.

I did read the blog and noticed that neither spvp mess, or tpvp premade vs pug is being adressed. But they do give more incentive to pay for paid tournaments.
Not sure how impressed I am with that, for a ‘free to play’ game selling gems.

Half the Halloween blog reads as a gem sales add, but that’s not pvp related of course.

I think that an engineer using several kits, has access to more tricks than any other profession.

Not that all those tricks are as effective as some of the fewer things others can do… but I still think that’s the key: we seem to be the most divers profession in the game.

Not all bombs or grenades are spammable, I doubt that’s the reason.

My guess is that they don’t necessarily want to couple fields and finishers to the same kits too much.
Both bombs and grenades already make fields, offensive orientated fields even.

They do that with elixir gun, which makes it worth using above all else (light field + projectile finisher).
If they do simular combinations for more damage focused kits, they might end up making them too strong without having to swap out of them at all.

Just a guess, it could be any reason of course.
In the end, we don’t know the beginning of it, after all.

Jestunhi.7429:

“is that the death rattle of an mmo dying?”

No.

Just the normal population of an MMO forum predicting it. As they do in every single MMO forum, regardless of how successful it goes on to become.

Same can be said of the legions defending their game beyond reason on every MMO that has imploded the past years…
Goes both ways, and both are valid in my book.

JonPeters.5630:

Fix going in today fyi

nice, thanks.

I’m a very critical person on these forums, but I know when to say ‘thanks’ and smile

I been thinking on something simular:

1. introduce different game modes (why is a so called pvp game based on 1 mode?)

2. make tournaments where all modes alternate

3. don’t allow build changes once it begun

and yes, you just got rid of burst and bunker, and will see a rise of support, balance builds, bunker builds that aren’t extreme, burst that isn’t extreme glass canon (already the case in tpvp as it is)

Point 1 is the tricky part, this game so far is surprisingly boring in terms of pvp variation.
If this doesn’t happen first (and fast), i fear there won’t be all that much pvp to discuss in a little while… Hopefully I’m wrong.

Point3 would be the debatable part many would argue against. But I like ‘being an all-rounder’ as the standard, instead of being ‘extremely functional in one particular game mode’.

Cosmetic rewards are indeed the main ‘rewards’ you can chase in this game.
But I do feel like the system is lacking on many fronts:

1. lack of diversity. Simply too much of the same, and too litle variations.

2. pvp gear looks good in Heart of the Mists… that’s it.
In pvp too the sole reward is looks on gear. But in battles it’s smudged with blue or red paint and you can’t make anything out aside the hats.
to make it worse: you can’t take your earned looks back to pve with you (not the stats, just the looks…).
Even if you log out in Mists, the character screens shows your pve gear.

You simply only chase gear in pvp, to stand in the Mists with it. That is so disapointing in terms of ‘cosmetic rewards’.

3. As it happens the main incentive, these looks on gear, are also the major money sink, and even a ‘real money’ sink.

It’s odd that a game that set out to be a non-grinding MMO, actually ended up being one big and long grind for gear that looks slightly different, but still the same as what the next one is wearing.

‘Visual aestethic rewards’ is a wonderfull concept.
But the implementation in the game makes it rather boring for me.
Too much the same, too long of a grind for most.

I only know of Piken Square, but that’s EU and I assume you’re looking US side (seeing that TC is US).

Gruntcommander.9807:

It bugged me too but when i thought about it, it makes sense that you cant fire bullets out of your off-hand pistol, mainly due to the fact that is spews fire and sticky glue, i doubt there would be enough room within the weapon itself for any bullets.

If there is room in my rifle for a man size net, as well as leftover shrapnells and a pogo stick… I would hope my pistol has room for some glue, a spark and perhaps… bullets?

But yes: the animation would be so much cooler if it fired bullets too, like for thiefs.
They don’t even have to hit, just fire them.

it seems ‘retaliation’ isn’t answered yet.

1. you take the same ammount of damage, with or without.
It does NOT protect you in any way.

2. it reflects damage at the attacker, but that damage is not the same as what hits you.
The ammount that is reflected is based on your stats (power I think).

So it’s a base damage (Wiki says 267) where a small ammount is added the more power you have.
Not much: only 1 point of damage added for each 13.4 power you have.
Still, even on base power of 900 and something, that adds up quite nicely.

3. Retaliation is a buff that is not consumed.
For example: if you get ‘miss’ debuff, it is consumed on your next hit. Even if the debuff still had 5 seconds left, it will still be used and gone after the first hit you do.

Retaliation is never ‘consumed’. It stays it’s full duration.
this is very important:

Let’s say you have 4 seconds of retaliation
if someone hits you 2 times during those 4 seconds, you will hit him back with 2 hits of (267 + some of your power)

It doesn’t matter if his hits were 100 or 10 k. You take full damage and only reflect those smaller hits of retaliation back.

Now if someone hits you with 10 hits during those 4 seconds, you will hit him back with 10 of those (267 + some of your power)

If a ranger points a bow at you, he will worry about retaliation
Or anyone else hitting really fast.
But again: you will still take more damage unless they hit very very weak.

A small sidenote on the ‘elixirs’ not being elixirs, like elixir gun #5 and tool nbelt thrown elixir H:

both elixir gun, as tool belt skills can be traited for lower cooldowns.
By either taking the trait for elixir gun and flamethrower recharge in firearms, and by spending points in Tools for the tool belt.

These work.

now imagine if ‘faster elixir’ would work on those as well.
That would lower their cooldowns even more, to a point where it’s overpowered.

I think any particualr skill in the game can only benefit from one cooldown lowering trait (or line of traits).
It’s not like conditions or boons where the durations can add up (multiplicatively, not additively, if that makes sense, but that’s another matter anyhow)

Important on the tool belt skills and reducing their timer:

even if you spend 30 points in Tools, the tooltip of the tool belt will NOT show a lower number.
It will stay the same, as if it wasn’t lowered.

But if you use the tool belt skill, and watch the displayed timer on the icon itself, you will see it doesn’t start counting on 20 but on 15 for example.

In relation to turret and ‘automated healing response’:
if you have the turret unused, it will refresh the turret cooldown, so you’ll be able to put it down.

If you have the turret out and healing, and you used the overcharge function, that overcharge will reset.

If you used the turret, but did not overcharge it yet, nothing happens. You can’t make 2 turrets unless you use the elite skill ‘Supply crate’ at the same time, since that has a healing turret too.

I’ll test what I wrote about the turret in a moment.
If something is wrong, I’ll change it.

MrSilver.5269:

Haette.2701:

Automated Medical Response recharges Bandage Self, plus all five of the skills in the kit itself. I’m not sure if it works while the kit is stowed, but if you have it out you’ll get a whole extra set of bandage packs and antidote/stims.

Are you sure about this?

I read that automated medical response does NOT refresh the cool-down on the bandage-self tool-belt skill.

Can anyone confirm one way or the other?

I use the trait inone of my builds, and it does NOT refresh the tool belt bandage.

Only the trait Inertial convertor in Tools does that (15 minor trait as well).

As for lowering the cooldown on the thrown elixir of elixir H, or any other tool belt skill (like this bandage): spending points in Tools is the only way to reduce these, even if it’s called an elixir.
As explained above: faster elixirs has no effect on this one (or on elixir gun #5 which also lists ‘elixir’ but isn’t one…)

whiran.1473:

I don’t quite understand this. As people level they move through the zones and then are, more or less, done with them.

Merging servers won’t change that people have leveled beyond particular zones.

In WoW, at it’s height of 12 million accounts, I started a new character. As I leveled up I barely saw anyone in the zones. But the game was healthy, busy, and it was a full server.

This is a basic flaw, if you will, of a level based zone system.

If you’d like to play with other people in a map just ask in /map if anyone would like to group up and do a map completion. But, you may have to redo a couple hearts. And, some people just aren’t willing to sacrifice their own time but they want others to help themselves out.

Lots of servers are at full almost 24 / 7 at the moment in NA. Most (if not all) of the others don’t go below HIGH in population. On the Euro side I noticed a couple of servers at medium during their wee hours of the day.

But, really, it’s the same issue that people who leveled really fast faced: they were outside of the ‘bubble’ of the majority of players. People who level slower (nothing wrong with it) will have to deal with quieter zones.

At least Anet created a reason for high level characters to come back to earlier zones and complete them.

One word: downscaling.

The feature is in this game, and therefore it can not be compared to ‘level based zone’ games.
It was set out to be different in this very regard.

So the real question to this particular fenomenon is: why are all those max levels not in the lower level zones?
Several answers to that. The main being: too little incentive for too much cost…

The basic idea was great, the implementation was again rather poor.

mulch.2586:

Well if you want to pug, there’s free-join games, like usual.

I can’t really see having tournaments for pugs only.

Why not?

Pugs surely shouldn’t be facing premades?
The odds of winning are very very small.

For starters spvp should become 5v5, and than tpvp can stay as it is.
But if spvp stays 8v8, than tpvp must have a pug and a premade bracket yes.

Hot join below rank 20 usually throws me in fights with 1 vs 2, or 2 vs 3… sometimes we exceed the total number of 5 or 6 both sides counted.

I usually play spvp from 22h in the evenings, sometimes a little earlier.

My fear is that there just aren’t that much new players in pvp anymore.

a 1 vs 2 fight or so can give you a few captures, but if those other 2 are a thief and a mesmer, you’re done for…
And yes: mesmers and thiefs are mathematically your highest chance of facing.
Just go down the line of professions people complain about: thiefs, mesmers, warriors,… those are the ones you face most.

Hot Join has become an empty joke for lower ranks I’m afraid.
While handpicking servers throws you in the designed mess of 8v8…

I’m sure (or at least I hope) it’s better at 20h in the evening, and other ‘peak moments’. But when I play hot join is weird at best, a sick joke at worst.

I don’t think it’s ‘awfull’.
But I do think it’s an awfull lot of the same…

mulch.2586:

Kimbald.2697:

tpvp’s biggest shortcoming as a design, aside profession balance, is the fact pugs have to face premades. Something no real pvp game would allow.

What they’ve said is that paid tournaments will not form PUGs for you, only the free tourneys like we have now.

For WvW, I’m pretty sure once they get guesting and the party interface functional, they’ll start charging gems for transfers.

Not all premades will be doing paid tournaments only.
So what wil they do when not paid tournament?
Normal tournament, that’s what.

And who will be facing these premades testing builds and comps in tpvp?
Right: pugs.

Nothing will change, except hopefully a few les premades, but they’ll still dominate.

The system is flawed as long as it allows premade vs pugs, paid tournaments won’t change that for tpvp, only for the paid ones itself.

TheUnNamedHero.4167:

Bradesco.9621:

Maybe is time to join two or three servers together since there is no much to do in the game during the week (most likely morning to afternoon).

Stop playing during off hours. If you can’t, then switch to a EU/US server. Problem solved.

You see: Bradesco (and others): you can’ t decide when you want to play this game. It’s meant to be played in group, and during peak hours because of that.
Don’t be so selfish to play alone, at off hours to make it even worse!

And I knew there wasn’t a problem! Thanks for helping us here.

Two things:

first of, from reading many replies of white knights on simular posts, it’s very clear you must be lying!
You simply must be, can’t be the player number is falling low.

Second: merging servers would be admitting defeat in a way, something that can’t be in a perfect game either.

Meanwhile I’ll continue my leveling journey mostly alone too.

I hear people mention spvp in sentences with ‘strategy’ and ‘e-sport’, and other rather confusing terms to my ears.
‘Holding a point’ in spvp? Seriously?
‘You only need 5 people’ well, at least that one is clear.

Are you guys sure you’re discussing the same spvp in this thread?

As far as I can tell, this thread is comparing WvWvW with tpvp at best, not spvp.

This is a very important distinction by the way: the shortcomings of spvp show the state of pvp in this game, and the way the developpers go about pvp here.

Where tpvp is too much the same game mode, at least it’s strategic and requires team work.
I find spvp a poor implementation of a good idea, WvW isn’t exactly perfect either…

tpvp’s biggest shortcoming as a design, aside profession balance, is the fact pugs have to face premades. Something no real pvp game would allow.
As it happens: WvW suffers from simular uneveness in design. For starters because of easy server transfer.

It’s good that professions are different.
But I really think downed state should be the same for everybody.

When downed you’re just a dying character, like all others, no profession skills come into play till you are back on your feet again.

At best make different animations and such for the same abilities.

Give all a first ability (#2) that interrupts a single stomp and than a bit after a second ability that knocks back or interrupts all around (#3).

More is not needed.
If you get stomped by more than one, you should die. Plain and simple.
If the opponent is distracted before stomping, you should have a chance to help the team effort going on by interrupting all around.