Guild Wars 2

Storm Sunstarr.8470:

Versz.8254:

Good fights [Sun] had a lot of fun with you guys in EBG tonight.

Thanks! We got tired of the zergball fest and I kept my tag off for some small havoc squad roaming. Great fights with both HoD and Yaks roaming teams. Nothing like going deep into enemy territory wondering when the 60 man ball of death catches us!
We did get chased into Durios once, but had the supply to get some acs up and make the Yaks invaders regret their push into the tower.

That was a fun fight in that pic if that is the time I am thinking about.

CoSA had a good run last night, we had some fun, thanks for the fights YB.

Sarrs.4831:

Cactus.2710:

I can understand why people think the score is meaningless because quite honestly it is, but where we’re at is like turning off the scoreboard at a football game and just having both teams run around tackling each other for their own amusement.

If nobody cares about the score at a football match, then sure, that analogy works, but people actually are very interested in knowing whose team is winning. Scoring in football is fundamentally tied to skill and ability.

Scoring in WvW?… Eh, not so much.

Football is also 11 vs 11, whilst WvW can sometimes be 111 vs 11.

Would football be interesting if there were 22 guys on one team and 5 on the other? Would you feel like the score mattered? Both answers would likely be no, at least for me they would.

JahRo.6432:

kitten these matchups

In other news the Enamorress guy seems funny.

You won’t stop zerging because ANET in many ways promoted and continues to promote it. Even though the game can’t handle it, they refuse to make solid changes for the better of the game. Instead we get 50v50v50 all piled into the lords room in SM and we are all standing there waving at each other while we auto-attack because nothing else works.

BTW, is anyone else shocked they didn’t base the league on some type of rating system rather than 1/2/3 finish per matchup?

Or did I totally miss something?

I am pleasantly surprised at the positive comments so far…I understand some people would feel like there is “no point” without keeping “score”…But the problem with that is there really is no point now, unless you are in T1.

The other 90% of WvW will never be balanced matchup wise, so if we could throw out the score then I personally think the game would be much better off.

Swamurabi.7890:

Orikx.9671:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Swamurabi.7890:

When the winners of the season come from the top servers in each league, BG/SoR/JQ and YB/KN/IoJ, then WvW is doomed to fail.

However, if the winners of the season come from the lower servers, like Ebay/CD/BP and FC/DR/AR, then WvW will thrive and you’ll see the breakup of stacked servers and a better influx of PvE players into WvW.

So WvW is doomed to fail then…Because if the FCs/DRs/ARs or anyone below IoJ could hope to win they would already be the favorites….Because the favorites are ranked as such because they have in the past been able to maintain the PPT necessary to gain said ranking…

The only upsets you will see in this league thing, are going to be either directly due to server transfers (transferring in or out), or will be the “middle servers” of each league randomly upsetting another middle server. IE: a 21 beats a 19…Which is not much of an upset at all.

I think he’s talking about the Individual winners. Which according to ANet they are going to be able to be won on all tiers.

However, as you said. If that is the basis for WvW failing then WvW will definitely fail.

I don’t know what they plan to base their individual merits on but there is little I can think of wouldn’t give you an advantage if your on a top tier server.

Most Kills – People fighting the most people are going to win. That is T1-3 because of big fights.

Most Points earned – Lower tier servers are going to be facing blow out matches against T1 servers where they have no hope to score points.

Most stomps – Lower tier may have an advantage because it’s hard to get stomps of in huge fights. Top tier roamers still have more people to fight though. Plus again low tier servers will be facing blowout matches where they can’t enter the BL without fighting 20 people at once.

Dolyak Kills/Camp flips. Same as above. Blowout matches will give them weeks where they can’t get any. They will have to work hard in their few close matches.

Basically it all boils down to people on lower tiers are going to be facing insurmountable odds several weeks during the league and won’t be able to score points so all the individual winners will likely come from T1 servers.

I’m not talking about individuals, I’m talking about how the T1 servers (BG/SoR/JQ) have been the same for the past 28 weeks, over 6 months, HALF THE TIME GW2 has existed they have been the top three servers. Before that there was at least a shuffling of servers.

A little over 1 week until the first season and these three servers are STILL recruiting, uh buying, guilds to come experience the thrill of 24/7 queues, megablobs and skill lag. These servers, and to a lesser extent TC, a T1.5 server, have done this just so they can be looked at as the best NA server with no other rewards. Now that there’s going to be a carrot given out at the end of 7 weeks they’re stacking even more.

The majority of matches in the first season will be with one server dominating, one server playing for second and a third server getting played. This does nothing to grow WvW. What it does do is alienate 2/3 of the servers, not something that creates sustainability.

That is what I thought you were saying from the beginning….So I totally agree 100%…All this league is going to do (especially if it remains 2 leagues only) is give us a few weeks of terrible matchups, and then they will crown the “winners” of which 99% could probably be predicted right now.

I mean if you match YB or Kain against ET/FC/SF/AR they win 100 times out of 100 on pure points/PPT.

Straegen.2938:

I completely disagree. There is no game (that I am aware of) that has complex combat (fields, boon/condi stacks, dodge mechanics, positional damage, etc) that can handle this many players. DAoC is probably the closest and it is more akin to a text based MUD compared to the combat in GW2. Basically no game (that I know of) has rich deep combat and 100+ players running around.

While I understand your sentiment, anyone can design something so overtly powerful that it is not practical in its application. I mean you could probably design a combustion engine so powerful you might not even be able to design a frame to withstand it…But at the end of the day what good is that engine if you cant even use it? Sure its awesome to say “look at this marvel of engineering”, but if it cannot be fully applied then what is the point?

Then the question(s) begs to be answered: Why make the game if it can’t be fully implemented? Why advertise massive open world pvp, then develop an incredibly rich combat system that cannot be implemented on a massive scale?
Why pack maps full of people and handicap all that developer work so that it is even remotely playable?

The answer is simple: Poor planning, poor testing, poor execution.

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I said it once, and will again: YB sure seems to have some classy folks.

FWIW: only people running zerker feelings come here to vent about people that /dance, /laugh or whatever when they roll over you.

It’s called sportsmanlike conduct, and I am sure you wouldn’t understand. I personally don’t care one way or the other, but as my server’s morale has suffered under 4 weeks of this type of blowout, and the last thing we need is a bunch of pvp wannabes giving our people even more reason to pve instead of wvw.

But I remember when SF spawn-camped us and destroyed us utterly, and we got through that and moved up in ranking. Maybe I should give my server more credit, since according to the score, we are both ahead of you in this match up, and in points overall.

On the whole, I agree with your assessment of YB people, though. They are MUCH classier than some servers we have faced, especially on the forums.

Your server has spawn camped others, if you can’t take it (4 weeks or 1week) then that is a personal issue, plain and simple. (Personal meaning to each person not just you) Spawn camping is something that a server chooses to let happen. People are not there because they choose not to be, plain and simple. I saw it on ET, I have seen it on SF, people either leave or just don’t enter if they think they are outnumbered.

It is an aspect of the game that is just about as common as golem rushes…It happens every week in many matchups.

Also if we start giving credit for “whose in 2nd, who is ‘ahead’ of who”, or any amalgamation of those type of statements: count me out. The only thing it tells me is that you have people that PVdoor while SF is asleep. We have had the same coverage gap since T8, we are over it.

There is no need to worry with PPT once you realize this game is coverage wars, not guild wars, and surely not RvR.

I was in your Borderlands last night. Bay was a breeze, but we were just warming up in the south. Your Hills were lovely, and were ready for us to knock down the gate and rush in. Your Garrison was ready and willing. Such little resistance.

And don’t call me Shirley.

I was playing Diablo 3, clearly you can see I am terribly concerned. Unlike you, I do not worry with things that I cannot control, and PPT/WvW is one of those things. I just play hard while I am there.

Maybe I will see ya tonight?

I’ll bring the massage oil.

Sounds like a wiener, cough, I mean *winner.

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I said it once, and will again: YB sure seems to have some classy folks.

FWIW: only people running zerker feelings come here to vent about people that /dance, /laugh or whatever when they roll over you.

It’s called sportsmanlike conduct, and I am sure you wouldn’t understand. I personally don’t care one way or the other, but as my server’s morale has suffered under 4 weeks of this type of blowout, and the last thing we need is a bunch of pvp wannabes giving our people even more reason to pve instead of wvw.

But I remember when SF spawn-camped us and destroyed us utterly, and we got through that and moved up in ranking. Maybe I should give my server more credit, since according to the score, we are both ahead of you in this match up, and in points overall.

On the whole, I agree with your assessment of YB people, though. They are MUCH classier than some servers we have faced, especially on the forums.

Your server has spawn camped others, if you can’t take it (4 weeks or 1week) then that is a personal issue, plain and simple. (Personal meaning to each person not just you) Spawn camping is something that a server chooses to let happen. People are not there because they choose not to be, plain and simple. I saw it on ET, I have seen it on SF, people either leave or just don’t enter if they think they are outnumbered.

It is an aspect of the game that is just about as common as golem rushes…It happens every week in many matchups.

Also if we start giving credit for “whose in 2nd, who is ‘ahead’ of who”, or any amalgamation of those type of statements: count me out. The only thing it tells me is that you have people that PVdoor while SF is asleep. We have had the same coverage gap since T8, we are over it.

There is no need to worry with PPT once you realize this game is coverage wars, not guild wars, and surely not RvR.

I was in your Borderlands last night. Bay was a breeze, but we were just warming up in the south. Your Hills were lovely, and were ready for us to knock down the gate and rush in. Your Garrison was ready and willing. Such little resistance.

And don’t call me Shirley.

I was playing Diablo 3, clearly you can see I am terribly concerned. Unlike you, I do not worry with things that I cannot control, and PPT/WvW is one of those things. I just play hard while I am there.

Maybe I will see ya tonight?

Swamurabi.7890:

When the winners of the season come from the top servers in each league, BG/SoR/JQ and YB/KN/IoJ, then WvW is doomed to fail.

However, if the winners of the season come from the lower servers, like Ebay/CD/BP and FC/DR/AR, then WvW will thrive and you’ll see the breakup of stacked servers and a better influx of PvE players into WvW.

So WvW is doomed to fail then…Because if the FCs/DRs/ARs or anyone below IoJ could hope to win they would already be the favorites….Because the favorites are ranked as such because they have in the past been able to maintain the PPT necessary to gain said ranking…

The only upsets you will see in this league thing, are going to be either directly due to server transfers (transferring in or out), or will be the “middle servers” of each league randomly upsetting another middle server. IE: a 21 beats a 19…Which is not much of an upset at all.

Soullesseal.2850:

ahhhhhhhhh! thanks!

It is a great measure of population, not much of a measure of “score”.

WvW is a karma train. It either gets derailed or it keeps on chugging.

Sylosis.7125:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Thanatos.2431:

Anet keeps adding in things that feed the zerg in 1 spot mentality. The only reason we want he cap increased is because Anet is not offering any other plans to change the zerg meta that is WvW. On the contrary they keep adding in things the encourage it. The whole point here is that we would like a change that brings about more enjoyable play instead of the 100 people stand in 1 spot and try to press 1 over and over thing we have now.

I agree, and like I said before (personally) I am fine with the 5-man AoE cap….But I don’t want to be able to only hit 5 while 25 can hit me all at once.

So there needs to be some give/take involved…IE: a defensive 5-limit dmg cap to offset the offensive AoE cap.

Stop standing around on your own and get in a group then? :-P

Just because this game promotes 50 man blobbing doesn’t mean you have to do it. :P

Shakki.3219:

I love the Bloodlust Update, keep the nice work up. Humankind will always complain (look at Tequatl)

EDIT: Signed -Shakki Carver

lunyboy.8672:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I said it once, and will again: YB sure seems to have some classy folks.

FWIW: only people running zerker feelings come here to vent about people that /dance, /laugh or whatever when they roll over you.

It’s called sportsmanlike conduct, and I am sure you wouldn’t understand. I personally don’t care one way or the other, but as my server’s morale has suffered under 4 weeks of this type of blowout, and the last thing we need is a bunch of pvp wannabes giving our people even more reason to pve instead of wvw.

But I remember when SF spawn-camped us and destroyed us utterly, and we got through that and moved up in ranking. Maybe I should give my server more credit, since according to the score, we are both ahead of you in this match up, and in points overall.

On the whole, I agree with your assessment of YB people, though. They are MUCH classier than some servers we have faced, especially on the forums.

Your server has spawn camped others, if you can’t take it (4 weeks or 1week) then that is a personal issue, plain and simple. (Personal meaning to each person not just you) Spawn camping is something that a server chooses to let happen. People are not there because they choose not to be, plain and simple. I saw it on ET, I have seen it on SF, people either leave or just don’t enter if they think they are outnumbered.

It is an aspect of the game that is just about as common as golem rushes…It happens every week in many matchups.

Also if we start giving credit for “whose in 2nd, who is ‘ahead’ of who”, or any amalgamation of those type of statements: count me out. The only thing it tells me is that you have people that PVdoor while SF is asleep. We have had the same coverage gap since T8, we are over it.

There is no need to worry with PPT once you realize this game is coverage wars, not guild wars, and surely not RvR.

timidobserver.7925:

leviN.4390:

Hey DevonCarver, us bottom tiered server would like for you and your WvW decision buddies to join us over the next course of 7 weeks of WvW fun.

And I mean for you guys to actually participate. Not looking at stats and numbers from data collection. Join one server, a week and actively participate

Then actually get back to us with a written report on how fun it is

Sincerely

All bottom tiered servers that has kittenised by league

Don’t like your server, transfer.

That is a horribly ignorant thing to say….

I said it once, and will again: YB sure seems to have some classy folks.

FWIW: only people running zerker feelings come here to vent about people that /dance, /laugh or whatever when they roll over you.

I just corpse jump them later when I catch them trying to run back to the herd. And all is then well.

But again, we appreciate the kind words from you guys. SF has been there, we know that when we outnumber servers all of the sudden there is 3-4 tags in EB and loads of passengers ready for that karma train. It is pretty sad really, but it is a fact of the game.

Fairweathers gonna be fairweathers, and no I do not subscribe to the theory of: well maybe some of them will come for the karma and stay for the WvW in the long run. I also don’t believe in fairy tales.

clint.5681:

Kaos.9162:

I though he said they were going to release it as announced, with two US leagues, and then adjust season 2 based on the results?

They did but he posted in a thread in the wvw discussion subform a day or two ago that they were making changes.

Yep, he said they hope to announce said changes on Thursday, assuming they can get translations etc in place by then.

Hopefully, like Clint said, it will be 4 leagues in lieu of 2. As the last 2 weeks have illustrated 2 leagues would be non-competitive and essentially catastrophic to morale for the lower end of BOTH leagues.

Wraistlin.6072:

I do have one thing to say about this. How many people kitten’n on this forum transferred from their original server? Or are sitting on one of the more overpopulated servers for WvW?

This can be fixed it just requires everyone to stop jumping on the OverPop bandwagon.

Truth be told, most of the people I know who have transferred “up in tiers” did so because they wanted to find people who enjoyed the style of play that they themselves enjoy. (IE: WvW)

Whereas those of us on the lower tiers, have to deal with whatever shiny PVE thing comes up every two weeks that pulls 50%+ of our population out of WvW, and we fight outmanned for 7 days.

Orikx.9671:

Edit: Additionally I think the huge blowouts in matches this week is a result of ANet trying to see what matchups for leagues will look like. They fudged the RNG for tiers to mix it up more to see how League matches would look with servers today.

You are correct sir, they absolutely manipulated the numbers.

The matchups like you suggested, are likely tied to them getting data for this coming announcement (likely on Thursday) regarding any possible changes to the NA league.

Dream In A Dream.7213:

King Amadaeus.8619:

violentlycar.5267:

Straegen.2938:

My guess is they think changing up the system may refresh it and adding in rewards will bring more players in. Both are probably accurate, but a lot of animosity has developed from players who have been routinely mismatched.

We’ve already seen the effects of mismatched matchups. Players have been clamoring for them tighten the matchmaking range. ArenaNet is responding by making it significantly larger. THIS is where the animosity has come from: ArenaNet’s constant refusal to respond to any criticism and fix any of the problems.

Pretty much this, I mean it almost seems like at times they are doing the exact opposite to spite us….Or maybe they just think we are dumb and don’t know the game we have all spent 2000+ hrs in….

I mean people asked for commander tag color options, a seemingly easy fix, and they ignored it and changed the red/blue/green tints on a whim for no apparent reason.

While I agree with commander tag and the dumb changes. The changes to the colors on the map are for colorblind people. While I am not colorblind, I understand the need to do it and approve of the change. Would have been nice to set them to old colors too tough.

Just another crazy thing, hopefully it is easier to see for the colorblind, because for many of us the blue/green is very similar. Hell I even remember people complaining that they were colorblind and had issues seeing/differentiating these new colors…

Madora.9340:

King Amadaeus.8619:

When you learn to not look at the scoreboard, or care about it or PPT, you start to have much more fun. Things don’t frustrate you as much overall, and you really just realize that you are simply outgunned/outmanned and it "is what it is.

Funny thing is the less you look/worry with the score, usually the better you do.

Even when leagues start, the score will actually matter then, but the outcomes are already pretty much decided. And the few upsets that will occur will most likely be attributed more to server stacking/destacking that is currently occurring which is going to skew the rankings, rather than true underdogs defeating a favored server.

We learned to play for second and to not really care about it…and then, we do well! Though, I’m sure every guild’s gonna stay away from SF. I heard BG came to our server to take on Teq, and they rage-quitted due to some of our players. PvE players, not WvW players.

Playing for second is “ok”, my personal opinion is that its the only worse than playing for first, but I enjoy “upsetting” that server that thought they would/should finish 2nd.

Not sure what went down with Teq, I remember the BG group was going to come, and people on SF did not want them to. So if they did end up coming, I could see where they might have been ill-received and left mad.

But again not really sure, I honestly do not even know where Teq spawns and have never fought him/her before or after this bleeep that has come lately.

violentlycar.5267:

Straegen.2938:

My guess is they think changing up the system may refresh it and adding in rewards will bring more players in. Both are probably accurate, but a lot of animosity has developed from players who have been routinely mismatched.

We’ve already seen the effects of mismatched matchups. Players have been clamoring for them tighten the matchmaking range. ArenaNet is responding by making it significantly larger. THIS is where the animosity has come from: ArenaNet’s constant refusal to respond to any criticism and fix any of the problems.

Pretty much this, I mean it almost seems like at times they are doing the exact opposite to spite us….Or maybe they just think we are dumb and don’t know the game we have all spent 2000+ hrs in….

I mean people asked for commander tag color options, a seemingly easy fix, and they ignored it and changed the red/blue/green tints on a whim for no apparent reason.

Gamadorn.2659:

DevonCarver.5370:

Lord Kuru.3685:

If they did listen to us, it’s only because of drastically declining WvW numbers (as stated in Devon’s infamous alpha forum post).

To head it off at the pass, there have not been drastically declining WvW numbers, or even marginally declining numbers. WvW continues to be as strong as it has been over the past several months. We made some decisions internally and were able to accommodate changes that it didn’t seem feasibly originally and that’s why the changes that are going to be announced later this week happened.

Whatever metrics you using are probably artificially inflated and someone needs to look at them, i’m guessing your including people that just blip in from pve and use the lion’s arch portal as a shortcut, i’m also guessing your including people that show up poke around for 10-20 min and leave and never come back, there is something inflating what you are looking at…because anyone who has played for any length of time on multiple servers can tell you for a FACT that the number of people from 6 months ago in WvW actively playing IS NOT the same as it is now….

Once again…without trying to absolutely bash the whole team, I would tear into that data and REALLY look at it, there is something wrong with it….the reality doesn’t match what is going on in whatever report you’re looking at. T2 server’s can’t even queue maps on reset night now, when 3 months ago there was couple hour queue on every map. I’d assume the same goes for servers under T2…there is NO WAY you can sit here tell me the numbers or going up…it doesn’t jive my man…

I totally agree, maybe everyone is moving to higher tiered servers, but even when you account for the fairweathers that disappear in bad matches we are still missing people.

It has been documented that entire guilds are quitting week-by-week. So if you are not losing numbers in WvW, then that means you are simply getting “fresh meat” in at a rate that allows for you to not dropoff. Even then that is not a sustainable system because they will get frustrated and leave too once they have had enough.

Also like the quote says, many of your metrics are surely counting the people that just pop in for -20 minutes.

When you learn to not look at the scoreboard, or care about it or PPT, you start to have much more fun. Things don’t frustrate you as much overall, and you really just realize that you are simply outgunned/outmanned and it "is what it is.

Funny thing is the less you look/worry with the score, usually the better you do.

Even when leagues start, the score will actually matter then, but the outcomes are already pretty much decided. And the few upsets that will occur will most likely be attributed more to server stacking/destacking that is currently occurring which is going to skew the rankings, rather than true underdogs defeating a favored server.

I already fixed blowouts: Delete the scoreboard.

Its pointless anyway, all a blowout tells you is that you are fighting a higher tier server with much more population and coverage.

All a close match tells you is that you are doing a good job holding as much as you can while matched up with servers that have like/similar coverage (and/or coverage gaps).

Any system where you can be winning by 5k on sunday and losing by 40k on Tuesday is pointless when being used as a metric to correlate “winning”.

Thanatos.2431:

Anet keeps adding in things that feed the zerg in 1 spot mentality. The only reason we want he cap increased is because Anet is not offering any other plans to change the zerg meta that is WvW. On the contrary they keep adding in things the encourage it. The whole point here is that we would like a change that brings about more enjoyable play instead of the 100 people stand in 1 spot and try to press 1 over and over thing we have now.

I agree, and like I said before (personally) I am fine with the 5-man AoE cap….But I don’t want to be able to only hit 5 while 25 can hit me all at once.

So there needs to be some give/take involved…IE: a defensive 5-limit dmg cap to offset the offensive AoE cap.

Orikx.9671:

@ Gamadorn.2659

I’m not for or against the Bloodlust yet. It has it’s pro’s and cons. Biggest problem is WvW is all about population. In a perfect world where all things are equal Bloodlust would add a fun element to WvW.

The argument that it pulls people away from the group to fight the larger group I don’t believe to be true though. WvW has always had small group/solo roamers even before bloodlust. This just gives them a place to focus their efforts and maybe help out more towards the big picture. I don’t know that I buy that the people fighting over bloodlust would be roaming with a zerg if bloodlust capture points were not there. The vast majority would just be roaming around camps looking for other roamers like they did before the buff.

You make an excellent point, however regarding the roamers: most of us on the lower tiers, (can’t speak for the higher tiers) that roam are dead-against bloodlust.

In fact the only thing it is really good for is to find people actually trying to cap it, to gank them.

What I am saying is that most (not all) roamers are either:

-Not going to care or want to bother taking the caps
-Not even going to have enough people to make the cap

Like I said, not really meant to be a blanket statement, but everyone I have talked to that enjoys roaming/not following the zerg, absolutely hates bloodlust and wants nothing to do with it other than collecting loot from those that are there legitimately.

You always have to remember that not everything is like the higher-mid tiers, down in the lower tiers we have to allocate people accordingly. We don’t queue 3-4 maps even on reset, and sometimes only have 20 people on a map facing much greater numbers.

If 25+ remove downed state. :O

Johje Holan.4607:

Advent.6193:

Yes, because eating hammer-train/stunlock is so much more fun? Let’s be honest here, every class has their “OP” spec. BS or Permastealth Thieves, Perplexity-juiced HGH Nades/Bomb Engis, H/M/S Warriors … you get the drill.

True, but let’s also be honest – they are not as annoying as a thief. Somehow I don’t mind dying to any of those other classes.

But a thief. Always hiding in the shadows, stalking around in the dead of night like some kind of nightmare from your childhood. Like Jack the Ripper hiding in the alleys, making it unsafe for unwary travelers. Or the Hound of the Baskervilles, you hear that howl yet you can’t see it until its too late.

That is the root of the problem with most people who (seriously) gripe about thieves, stealth is not an OP mechanic…But it allows the thief to mostly control the engagement, something that “pro players” don’t like.

I personally have no issue with thieves, I kill a lot of them, die to a very few, and the rest run away. But then again I play a thief around 20% of the time, so that is the best way to know how to beat them.

Orikx.9671:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Orikx.9671:

At least for the T2 matchup this week Bloodlust has nothing to do with the blowout. I can’t speak for the other tiers because I am not on them.

The only thing causing the blowout for the T2 matchup is the obvious huge coverage gap differences. DB and FA just don’t have the population to fight us. However for the better part of NA prime last night SoR did not hold all the orbs and many times we did not even have the most.

IDT anyone is really ascerting that bloodlust is causing lopsided matchups, what they/we are saying is that only buff servers that already had the ability to greatly outnumber other servers.

IE: The only thing worse than a larger server zerging everything in sight, is a larger server doing it with full bloodlust.

My post was in response to OP. I’m personally indifferent on Bloodlust ATM but OP implied bloodlust is what is causing all the matchups to be over by Monday.

moutzaheadin.4029:

Except T1. Its Monday and all already every other match is over. Still think buffing the server with more population was a good idea ?

Wvw is on its last leg. Please save it.

I didn’t take the OP’s post in that manner, sorry for the confusion…I took it to mean that buffing overpowered servers does nothing to improve the gameplay.

I thought they were using the blowout matches to prove that blowouts were already occurring, since blowouts mean coverage, that also translates (theoretically) to having bloodlust much of the time.

Bloodlust isn’t causing these blowouts, it is just making them more ridiculous because if you are already getting your kitten zerged off by “superior numbers”, now you are getting it by “buffed superior numbers”.

Furthermore, many people have left WvW behind all of this, and I can promise you all those servers that are getting blown out have people leaving the match everyday and waiting til next week’s reset.

Vol.5241:

Thanatos.2431:

Vol.5241:

I really don’t get what you guys are complaining about. There are technical issues that prevent raising the cap. Just deal with it. Constantly complaining about fixing the improbably won’t make it any better for you.

At one point they said they couldn’t fix culling either…… If Anet wants to do this, they will find a way. The game was designed with no cap. As I’ve said, if you raise the cap and stop encouraging whole servers to all stand in 1 ball, then you will reduce your lag issues by changing playstyle.

I don’t recall them saying they couldn’t fix it – they said that it would be difficult. That’s an open-ended response that invites the possibility that it can be fixed in the future, but also manages expectations. Then that Habib guy worked months on it and we got it (and surprise of course, people still complain about it and want it reverted).

It’s the same thing here. Devon didn’t say they will absolutely not fix it. He just said that there are currently no plans.

Everyone here needs to manage their expectations and understand that there are limitations in the engine, and that you have to deal with it otherwise until they have the time and resources to make these changes.

I want an increased cap just like everyone but I understand there is a reason why it’s in game and why we won’t see a fix.

I am pretty sure they did say they couldn’t fix culling in the beginning. Then it turned into “we are working on a possible solution”. But I may be wrong.

One thing I am sure of is they stated a few times that separating the NA/EU resets was “impossible”.

Not really the same thing I know, but you have to factor things like this in whenever you question why people question ANET’s truth.

Orikx.9671:

At least for the T2 matchup this week Bloodlust has nothing to do with the blowout. I can’t speak for the other tiers because I am not on them.

The only thing causing the blowout for the T2 matchup is the obvious huge coverage gap differences. DB and FA just don’t have the population to fight us. However for the better part of NA prime last night SoR did not hold all the orbs and many times we did not even have the most.

IDT anyone is really ascerting that bloodlust is causing lopsided matchups, what they/we are saying is that only buff servers that already had the ability to greatly outnumber other servers.

IE: The only thing worse than a larger server zerging everything in sight, is a larger server doing it with full bloodlust.

Antara.3189:

King Amadaeus.8619:

The only thing remotely keeping this game alive is the fact that people are gullible, and they enjoy killing computer generated NPCs for gear grinding loot/mats.

The only thing keeping WvW’ers here at the moment is that there is nothing else out on the market with open world PvP/RvR (to my knowledge, and believe me I have looked) that is much better.

When you take these two points into account, you can begin to see why:
-The devs seems so utterly clueless in terms of WvW.
-ANET is pushing Living Story content like a drug.

Competition makes everything better, and until a game comes along and punches ANET in the mouth then things will only remain the same or continue to get worse.

The game is “Alive” because people enjoy playing for fun. You know, parents, husbands, wives, college students who want to kick back and do a dungeon, world event, WvW, PvP, Living Story, guild challenge, etc.

This game does offer a variety of gameplay and has things to do. Gear Grinders, farmers, One Up’ers will always be in any type of online game, and they will always state the game is too easy, not enough to do, or too casual. Those types of players generally get caught in the loop of trying to be the best, beat everything fast, and then complain about it later.

This game isn’t perfect, but no dynamic online game is. Living Story has been mediocre (imo), but that doesn’t discredit the effort and other additions to this game.

Solstice is right in saying people are just now starting to “balance” out and finding their niche profession and gearing up. I am still meeting folks running masterwork/rare gear on their 80s and been playing since release.

As far as the new Bloodlust addition goes. I still feel it gives the stronger world even more power, which is why the first orb system was removed months ago. Adding the new cap points I enjoy however, it adds a balance for roamers who don’t have the coverage/manpower to cap other things in the map.

WvW still needs a lot of work to create a lasting balance however, and I hope to see progess made towards that going forward.

In conclusion,
You’re opinion on why this game is still “Alive”, is subjective and biased based on your personal views. The guild I represent is 490-500 members at all times and every vocal person in the guild plays for fun, and not to grind. Though select view do enjoy the gear grind.

EDIT: In regards to WvW, unless a dev specifically states that the average number of WvW’s has gone up, then I have no comment on it. As far as I know, people from lower WvW pop servers are hoping to stacked servers to get enjoyment of their preferred playstyle. Maybe this is casusing a spike in WvW activity?

Cheers.

Your point essentially proves mine because it speaks to aspects in the game beyond WvW in a WvW forum. Like I said it remains alive because nothing better has come along to make it work harder to be better.

If you really think that people at ANET have been working kitten things that genuinely have improved WvW (key: improved WvW) then there is likely nothing we have to discuss further.

If I am down I feel as though I lost…Not to say that I won’t tag a PVE mob for the luls, but if you stealth/invuln/mist stomp me I am fine with it.

Theftwind.8976:

karma is a b….

Nope, Karma is a train, and YB has illustrated it to you this week!

In all seriousness, I want to take a second and commend YB.

Seriously, you guys have been more than realistic coming on here and stating that the fairweathers (annoy?) you somewhat, and that you are not pleased with the lopsided match.

It is rather refreshing to hear stuff like this, because many servers in your position would be relishing in the “easy” week and enjoying the easy rewards. It shows that you guys have true competitive spirit for the most part.

SF has been camped and has done some camping on servers in the past, so we understand either way, and will keep fighting regardless.

I have had a blast, because there is no shortage of enemies, I could use some more allies but meh /shrug.

Wouldn’t WvW be better without PPT/Scoreboard?

I think so, while I am sure the masses would disagree because it would “make it have no point”….I think that it has been MORE than proven that the “matchups/score/PPT” are all direct correlations to Population and Coverage.

Look at the current NA matchups, do you really think anyone other than T1 (NA) are playing for PPT? What you have is 7 other matches that are karma trains. I am telling you the scoreboard is useless, beyond measuring coverage gaps and populations.

At the end of the day almost everyone eventually (some take longer than others) comes to realize that watching the scoreboard, and equating it to anything other than a measure of population/coverage is pointless.

I mean the only thing that PPT is going to be useful for moving forward is declaring the “winners” of this league nonsense.

DevonCarver.5370:

Dese.1382:

MiLkZz.4789:

Imagine you taking down 1 gate/wall of a a keep/tower. Imagine 50 people inside which ain’t that abnormal. Imagine they all chaining their aoe into the gap. Good luck walking through and surviving.

Aoe cap is there not only for the servers, but also because some things will be just impossible to cap and some classes will be rediculously OP. Like Ele and ranger, no. If aoe is unlimited, make healing unlimited aswel and all the other spells. But OOPS, we are back to 0 than…

So yea aoe cap is there for a really really good reason.

There is a dev post flat out saying, in plain english, its there for the simple reason of server performance.

I will say it again. If the cap were raised performance would suffer greatly. That is why it hasn’t been changed.

And I will say again:

It is utter BS that if 7 people attack me I can only hit 5 of them at a time, whilst all 7 of them can all hit me at once….

While I completely understand that the AoE cap “is needed so your servers don’t implode”, there is also no question that it gives a noticeable advantage beyond that of just having more people.

What I am saying is: If I can only hit 5 people at once, why in the world can more than 5 (five) hit me at once?

(Also don’t focus on the 1vs7 aspect of the example, same is reasonably true with 10v25, 20v35, or another other combination where one side is simply not doing damage because the other side is triggering the AoE cap)

Dal.5872:

The grub managed to spawn on the walls of our keep, we were already outnumbered on the border, needless to say once the grub was done destroying siege we lost our keep within minutes.

Please fix this Anet, in fact just remove all the champions and pve mobs from WvW.

Pretty sure that’s blue keep, not red…And it has always done that if pulled there. Will also attack Bravost if pulled correctly.

(Many people actually use it to help “defend” both objectives)

The only thing remotely keeping this game alive is the fact that people are gullible, and they enjoy killing computer generated NPCs for gear grinding loot/mats.

The only thing keeping WvW’ers here at the moment is that there is nothing else out on the market with open world PvP/RvR (to my knowledge, and believe me I have looked) that is much better.

When you take these two points into account, you can begin to see why:
-The devs seems so utterly clueless in terms of WvW.
-ANET is pushing Living Story content like a drug.

Competition makes everything better, and until a game comes along and punches ANET in the mouth then things will only remain the same or continue to get worse.

Mepheles.2087:

tsubus.8761:

+150 power * 20 players = +3000 power.

True, doesn’t affect it at all.

If you add it up like that, yes it gives the appearance of actually being significant. But only an appearance. It’s still not worth jack.

I lol’d…..

Ask IoJ…(rimshot)

JK IoJ we all love ya…

K U T M.4539:

I kinda don’t feel bad for SF.

But then again I kinda do.

Why feel bad for us? We got Kain last week, YB this week…

If the leagues started last week we (AND YOU) would be facing these servers anyway….

It is the inevitable end to a poorly designed aspect of the game.

I will feel bad for ET, because you guys have good roamers and there wont be any room to roam. The last two weeks has been nothing but 5v1s and gankfests….Good luck when leagues start, god help us all.

Sagabatou.1076:

It’s pretty much fairweather heaven in WvW for this server to be honest. They only come “help” because we’re winning, but they’ll most likely be gone during the week.

Same thing happens with us (and I am assuming everyone).

If we were to roll “YZ” servers next week, the karma train would be all fueled up. One day a server will show up that has the same population each week. (Other than the balanced matches at T1.)

Also CoSA has enjoyed the fun fights with GLOB and ONE over the weekend. Hope to see you boys and girls out during the week as well.

sirflamesword.3896:

I’m really really sorry SF.

We did not make you have 12.7k HP bro????

:P

vitali.1609:

King Amadaeus.8619:

vitali.1609:

Regrettably SF has enough trouble keeping the giant walmart guild from harassing the other guilds that are smaller but get much greater results with less people.
They seem to think “T1” tactics/strat is gathering up a giant guild zergball and hope thier numbers will make up for thier lack of skill.
It never dawned on them that hitting specific places in other maps besides EBG at the right time to apply pressure to the oposition might help.
Any kind of strategy is beyond them and over thier heads.

Regrettably the Walmart was out of Preparation H when this guy went there, so now he has come here to rage about Walmart.

lol , your comebacks are epic…short of wit just like your commanding.

Yeah it was bad, the whole 10 minutes I was tagged this week. ROFL.

Try again young fella.

vitali.1609:

Regrettably SF has enough trouble keeping the giant walmart guild from harassing the other guilds that are smaller but get much greater results with less people.
They seem to think “T1” tactics/strat is gathering up a giant guild zergball and hope thier numbers will make up for thier lack of skill.
It never dawned on them that hitting specific places in other maps besides EBG at the right time to apply pressure to the oposition might help.
Any kind of strategy is beyond them and over thier heads.

Regrettably the Walmart was out of Preparation H when this guy went there, so now he has come here to rage about Walmart.

AprilRain.7649:

Blix.8021:

That took what, less than an hour?

And now finding people to duel, one of the things I enjoyed, is completely ruined.

You really think this is because of the orb buff? You’re just aiming the blame elsewhere if you ask me. Instead okittennowledging that your server is weaker than the leading server, you come up with the silly idea that the game is doing something wrong.

Without the orb buffs, chances are pretty high that you’d still be getting slaughtered. Only difference now is that you’ve got a new feature to blame, instead of lack of server coverage, lower server population, possibly even lower player skill. Maybe your server is focussing too much on zerging – Neglecting small group play, etc. etc.

Evaluate the orb buff for a few weeks. Evaluate your server’s behaviour. Don’t judge badly because you’re losing. Be constructive.

LOL @ the person essentially admitting that WvW is nothing more than a population measuring contest.

-GG-