Video of the Build in Action.
mmm… not bad not bad… but i have few more questions:
1) why go fo 1500 power when you can go for full condition damage?
2) why troll unguent if you get around 500 healing power? Heal as One has a better coeffient (1.0 against troll unguent which is 0.12: this mean you get 500 more hp from heal as one)
3) why greatsword? i can understand the great utility tool… but …condi damage? how can a build based on condition get advantage from using a raw damage weapon? maybe sword/torch is better… what do you think?
4) “soften the fall” ? xd i thought that those skills where for jumping puzzles not for competitive pvp… why not to put on shared anguish? or expertise training (considerating you are using spiders with poisons)?
5)i miss something or there is a lack of cond remover? "emphatic bons procs every 10 sec so it isn’t enough to resist… maybe signet of renewal at place of SotW? i don’t think rangers have anough condition removers :<
Anyway this build looks really interesting but i think there is much more to do, keep it up
Lots of interesting Stuff
Kjeldoran, can you do the Math for us, please? :-)
XD yes send me your homeworks
1) So you are saying that there are no attacks with a coefficient higher then 1 and quicker then 1 second? Because if you are, then you are incorrect. Guardians themselves have attacks that can fire off in less then a second and some of them have coefficients of 2.5, 2.25, and 1.4. Matter in fact all three of them combined is about a second.
2) I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? Here are the stats of my roaming build. Can you show me how I’m doing zero damage to you? 2170 power, 48% crit chance, 90% crit damage. I run sword/focus, greatsword. And for the sake to show I’m not a glass cannon I have 2968 armor and 16735 health.
1) i’m talking about auto atacks ^^ because if you are considering skills like whirling wrath you have to consider the 10sec cd not the 3/4 cast time and you always forget that also auto attacks with a cast time of 0.5 in reality last 1 sec (or near 1 sec) because of animation and aftercast.
2)do you get those stats with food? without are quite impossible (according to my calculation) and still with food are you considering fury in crit chance? because in my build i tried to optimize stats and i don’t get so high especially in toughness and crit damage at same time; infact i get 2100 power, 14xx (don’t remember now) toughness, 48% crit chance, 82% crit damge and 15005 hp (without foods). Anyway you crits are less effectives as you think over my build simply because your power is under 4417 and in particular:
4417 / 2170 = 2,05 times lower than required with a 90% crit damage you get a 2.4% crit multiplier so your damage will be:
716 / 2.05 = 349.3
349.3 * 2.4 = 838
now you are considering a skill with coefficient 1.0 and get a 838 damage
while my health per sec is 716 (withouth considering dodge roll) but you have to consider more option:
-is this an auto-attack? no, then you have to wait cd and your damage per second will be lower than 838
-is this a 1 total sec skill? (considering pre cast, animation and after cast) no? then you have to consider a reduction in damage per second
-is this a ranged skill? no? then you have to consider that you can always miss it and get 0 damage and a cd
what i’m trying to say is that while my 716hp/sec are something of sure your damage, instead, isn’t sure and isn’t even enough to overcome my health regeneration (of course we are talking about 1 with y build vs 1 full zerker).
Also i want to underline that this propotype of build is purely defensive and i can develop a stronger one in order to also deal a very good damage (also this one has a decend dps… simply isn’t enough in a competitive tpvp)
u guys notice this is only theory right? do not work on the field.
There are classes that make 3%-6% more damage per boon.
And conditions damage makes much more damage than regens can cover plus minor healings.
If its is for Pve only, anything on healing power makes guardian very sturdy
I’ll say that this is more than theory crafting ^^ math is math and every game is based on math… so you have the answer.
- 3,6 and even 9% damage multiplier isn’t enough if you are conidering a base damage of 300… 9% is 9more damage? wow… really…
- this build isn’t fro pve (mobs) but for PvE (dungeons)
-
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
Hello,
this thread is about an important, at least for me, add that this game requires: we get Hearth of the Mists but why we miss an open world battleground?
I know that WvW can be considered a great battleground but sometimes I haven’t hours and hours to go in WvW and to create an HotM in open world will be a really nice add to make happy all those haven’t so much time or simply those who don’t want to be force in zerg vs zerg.
Also the reward can be:
victory
20 badges of honor
10 silver
5 tokens (for a particular reward or skin or something else)
defeat
10 badges of honor
5 silver
2 tokens
Battleground mods may be different from Hearth of the Mist (i know that this requires a lot of work but…) for example:
-team vs team with limited respawn (ex. 50 respawn per team)
-team vs team vs team in a mini WvW like scenario; 3 mini towers (1 per team) + 1central mini tower with a score points cap
-team vs team with 2 fortresses (1 per team) and vehicles (or trebushets in particular position) to destroy enemy gate and kill enemy leader (npc… or maybe a player why not)
That’s all if you like my idea +1 please and if you have more suggestion for “battleground mods” fell free to elencate them here… maybe we can’t get an open world battleground but we can get more hotm mods
Yeah, but I think unlimited axes are wierder than unlimited arrows/bullets, where would you store them? Even unlimited throwing knives are better that unlimited axes^^
i have a logical explanation for you!
our axes are like boomerang… so you get them back! also no one can see them return… that’s because them get mantle of invisibility (from harry potter) but we get an invisible axe detector so we get them! it’s not hard to understand… also them jumps between targets because… because we have a very cool aim and we are able to hit metal surfaces in order to make them bounce! we are the best… i suppose
hello margane,
first of all… i’ve to say that this is a nice imput for a great build
now, if you are looking for heals and you want to get it only from regen remember that:
regen = 130 + 0.125 * healing power (255 hp per sec)
VoR = 84 * 0.06 * healing power
then if you want to be able to deal a good damage i suggest you to trasform this build in a signet one… so you can get maximum benefits from Signet of Resolve and get a better trait in radiance master since powerfull blades is good only for sword while your build is focused on mace.
so i suggest you to get both: “signet mastery” and “inscribed removal” and use: signet of judgment, bane signet and signet of mercy… so basically you improve everything you need; healing, power and damage reduction! Also you get a passive condition removal and 3 cond removal on activation.
this will be a nice imput for build optimization
ps: modified build for a better one
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
@Foofad
yes that’s right but we are still able to get permasymbol with hammer 1# spam (or something like perma)
@Blasino
1)people have attacks quicker then 1 per second only if their coefficient are lower than 1.0 (which is the one i’m considering) and if you are always in front of them waiting for their attacks
2) critical hits are less effective than you think; 1 crit with low crit damage is less than 2x damage which mean that from 300… they would deal 600 damage (100 less under hp/sec) and if their focused on crit damage (berserker builds) their damage multiplier will be really reduced simply because 300 * 2.5 (supposing a 100% crit damage build) = 750… which means that is still under our hp/sec (i was not considering dodge roll in the 716 hp/sec) and, really important, it’s a full zerker buid… so while you still get 0 damage from, you are able to kill him … fastly and easily
instead, one need to push deep into rear of the enemy line, or flank from the side. you dont need to be in the middle of the enemy.
Best way to use Entangle, indeed.. Get to the rear of the enemy group, pop down Entangle, Lightning Reflex out of there, spam Barrage, get back in and stomp..
surely a good method… but entangle is still easy to avoid/remove :<
another nice option would be to use hunter’s shot then cast entangle while invisible and then barrage.
for 1vs1 a really effective combo is entangle + moa’s daze in the face
yeah… to be honest condition guardian is becoming interesting…
until last patches we get only burning and a useless bleeding (from sigil), as learned from foofad topic it wasn’t enough to be really effective in pvp nor in pve, but now with a possible confusion spam… we can work at something.
anyway this possible build seems to be strongly related to asura (one of the best races :P ) because of “pain inverter” and "technobabble.
Anyway this “condition build” will be really different from others simply because while every other cond build has X bottom to get X condition, this one has to time skills and also get a bit of luck.
Anyway we get a total of 3 conditions, now: bleeding, burning e confusion.
While bleeding is pretty useless for its damage (a max of 3stacks isn’t enough to be effective), burning and confusion can help a lot to deal some significant damage.
and i forget we can get 4th and 5th malus on enemies… but always with asura
binding blade -> ring of warding -> radiation filed = a min of 12sec poison and 12sec weakness
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Quote : skill damage= power * skill coefficient * weapon damage / enemy armor
skill damage with modifiers= (skill damage / enemy armor ) * (1-x-y-z )
where x, y and z are damage reducers like protection and abilities
1. /enemy armor, twice?
2. you never know the skill coefficient/power/weapon dmg of PVE/WvW mobs, while the skill dmg is depends on skill coefficient*power*weapon dmg, can be much higher than you think(ever for players’ skill it can be more than 10 million)
3. if 2 or more mobs/players are attacking you … your hp PER SECOND does’t work, because it is not hp PER SECOND PER MOB/PLAYER
4. not works for condition
5. how about crits?fail
add: 6. 1 break stun every 60 seconds?
thank you for comment but you are pretty wrong… so ill wait to say “fail”
1. that was only my error… every calculation i’ve done consider 1 enemy armor; that was in order to avoid to write again skill damage numerator
2. pve is easier to understand than you think. Of course i’m not talking about “one shot” skills because here you have to avoid them by definition… but for every other attack you have pretty an easy life
3. you are right… but you forget something: with this build you get up to 716hp per sec while a single enemy can deal a max of 300 damage per sec… this mean that only with regen you can be hit twice per sec without get any effective damage. Also you have to consider heals form rolls, heal skill, and elite which greatly increase you hp/sec and then you also to consider blinds/aegis/miss/block which greatly decreases enemy attacks so basically you can’t be attacked 1 time per sec during the entire fight … so hp are always in our favour
this should be a simply view of a match
sec: – damage: – heals:
1 – 300 – 716
2 – miss – 716
3 – 300 – 716
then do you understand that with this setup you can handle 5+ enemies without problems
4. actually this build is greatly focused on cond removal: -60% cond duration, up to 4 remove condition and elite, not considering that you can change heal skill (because you will use it really few times) and traits and, above all, heals per sec is always good to resist to conditions too (maybe not against 5 conditions spammer… but here there is nothing you can do)
5. actually this is a bunker build and is able to reach 55% crit chance and a 35% crit damage which is better than a lot of non defensive builds i’ve seen
6. mainly you don’t need stun break since you get passive heal regeneration and that’s enough to resist… no more need to do anything… just watch you enemy trying to kill you while drinking a coffee… then if you want… you can kill him (that’s exaggerated of course but not so far from reality )
not mentioning what Chase pointed out (which is the 90% of “why you can kill someone”) your thread title is wrong my actual build (in zero damage: is possible) can’t simply be killed by you or anyone… now and ever
and… you damage in the vid was really low still with 12 might stacks… really was it a dps build?
Bunker anti-nuke Build
Role: Bunker for WvW (zerg head), hearth of the mists and pve (dungeons)
Ok, this is the first build to use the method “zero damage” and it isn’t only defensive but has also a bit of offensive capacity…
explanation
thanks to the great ammount of heal per sec and the great quantity of toughness this build is able to survive to… everything without any particular problem. This build is also created to survive to 2vs1 and 3vs1 fights (also 4-5-6 vs 1 but here you wont be able to kill but only to defend). The best combination comes out from regeneration + protection + retailation (that remember me a hotw boss…) simply because our regeneration is really strong, our protection is perma and our retailation greatly improves our dps.
Also to keep up those boons is really easy:
regeneration: symbol of faith, hold the line, save yourselves
protection: symbol of protection, protector’s strike, shield of judgment, hold the line, save yourselves, tome of courage
retailation: save yourselves, combo filed (mighty blow + field)
how many damage can we endure until we get 1, effective, damage?
skill damage (considering skill coef. 1.0 and a GS) = (power * skill coef. * weapon damage ) / armor
easy formula: hp/sec = (skill damage / armor ) * (0.57)
our hp-per-sec:
regeneration 130 + (0.125 * 1211) = 281
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * 1211) = 156
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * 1211) = 198
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * 1211) = 81
total: 716hp per sec
716 = ((skill damage) / 3682 ) * (0.57)
skill damage required = 4.625.108
4.625.108 = power * 1 * 1047
power required: 4417!
this means that an enemy with less than 4417 power can’t deal damage with a skill with coef 1.0 or less (very few skills have more than 1.0 skill coefficient and still with a coef of 2.0 we are able to get zero damage against enemies with 2209 power or less!)
That’s all for now hope you enjoy this zero damage build as soon as possible ill work for a build which is also able to deal massive damage and become kinda the king of 1vs1.
ps: notice that the above build uses food and runes for condition removers (togheter with pure of voice) but if you want you can sobstitute them for more toughness and healing power and get an even more indestructible build (but more vulnerable to conditions)
new section (can someone tell me how to make a link to this post so i can put it in the main thread?):
- Math for math’s sake
now i’ll explain what is better in order to get a more efficient damage reduction and reach the zero damage between ealing power and toughness.
healing power vs toughness
as i said over, heals per second is the key in order to reach zero damage togheter with toughness of course but does healing power scale better than toughness? as i said above: yes; but here are some numbers…
our aim is to compare 100 more hp per sec with X more toughness (rememer that we get the same ammout of healing power or toughness from equip so it’s, for example, 100 healing power vs 100 toughness)
first of all: how many healing power we need in order to increase our hp/sec by 100 points?
regeneration 130 + (0.125 * healing power)
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * healing power)
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * healing power)
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * healing power)
the formula is the following
100 = 0.125* x 0.06* x 0.075* x +0.01* x
x = 100/0,27 = 370,4
so basically the confront is 100 hp/sec vs 370 toughness
let’s try in the base formula with some generical numbers!
[read over for the explanation of the following formula]
hp/sec (200hp) = skill damage / armor (3000)
enemy skill damage required in order to get “0 damage” < 600.000
then try with more hp/sec and less armor
hp/sec (200 + 100) = skill damage / armor (3000 – 370)
enemy skill damage required in order to get “0 damage” < 789.000
and the really impressive thing is that change 370 toughness for 370 healing power (+100 hp/sec) is 24% more effective!
to this is the way… tomorrow ill continue to work on and i really appreciate any help and suggestion since i haven’t much time and almost every time i’m writing from phone XD
ahahahah XD i love that pic
anyway the difference is that the right formula is:
damage= (skill damage/ armor) * (1-x-y-z) not (skill damage/ armor) * (1-x) * (1-y) * (1-z)
i just tested it today
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(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
I’m right there with you. Traps, peircing arrows, condition damage build and watch ther bags pile up.
yes but don’t forget the trait which allows us to trow traps ton of fun in wvw
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
this is an example of build i did in 10 sec:
hp per sec:
regeneration 255hp
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * 1000) = 144hp
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * 1000) = 182hp
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * 1000) = 79hp
mango pie 85hp
total: 745hp per sec (without considering heals, rolls and elite)
adding that to the above formula give us:
754hp = ((skill damage)/ 3468 )* (0.57) -> skill damage= 4587494.7
enemy power= 4381
now i don’t know if is possible to get a soo huge power… but i dont think so basically the damage you get every 1 sec i lower than the hp you gain.
Then if you agree with me… we can start to optimize that build in order to reduce this huge “required power” maybe to a cap of 3000 and get other stats in order to deal more damage
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
@Kjeldoran
Yeah, sure, just for you, I’m a twelve year old girl. You are still wrong.Until you provide evidence of yourself demonstrating your theory in game you are merely an imbecile.
if you think i’m an “imbecile” you also think that gw2 wiki (official) is writed by imbeciles, and since the wiki is approved by gw2 devs you think that devs are imbeciles and since we all play that game described by the wiki and approved by devs we are all imbeciles… wow good job.
kidding apart i haven’t so many free time (i’m not a kid i have to work ) so i can’t test it now (and also write those post from my phone is hard…) so later maybe ill try it but for now… that’s the truth there is no misunderstanding whether you like it or not.
LOL @ the OP coming back with further misunderstandings of how damage reduction works and his wild claims.
and please, avoid those kind of comments because there still are too many kids on the forum and i don’t want to waste more time with them. This is a forum if something is unclair i, you and everyone, can explain but with respect and seriousness not with those kiddy statements.
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)
(edited by Kjeldoran.3849)