Guild Wars 2

I didn’t respond to this thread because I was specifically called out and made the butt of jokes – though in good jest and humorous they were indeed. Plus, but the time that I got a chance to read this thread, I felt that the original issue was more or less answered and seeing how I’m far from a proper mediator of disputes, I saw no reason in posting.

On an aside, I hold no issue with answering PMs or even in-game random whispers, I have and will do such, though I see no issue with opening a thread to ask a question, but if you do the latter there’s really no point in calling me out to answer your question.

Zaxares.5419:

Seems that RP is a poor choice of bait for Konigs.

Ye be wrong. I post on 2RP’s lore question forum a lot, actually.

However, when it comes to mediating, convincing, or suggesting one on ways of roleplaying, I’m out of my environment. I don’t roleplay frequently enough to help there, which seems to be what half of the thread was for.

Temples of Orr—The cross-map mechanics of these temples will be disabled. Instead, god statues will be active only when the nearest temple is contested.

I’ve found a reason to hate the megaserver concept. Honestly, I was loving it until I read this. Why? Because most of the folks on my friends list now are in Tarnished Coast, so I wouldn’t have to guest to TC to RP whenever I wanted to! And so many of the folks I knew on Sanctum of Rall have either since stopped playing or moved elsewhere (most to TC or Dragonbrand). Though I am not fond of the idea of predictable world boss spawnings (I preferred more randomness to events; still do, actually), it’s not something I’m too gruffed about to be honest.

But this? This removes a huge potential of GW2. The mechanic used in the temple showed how an event in one zone could affect another zone in numerous ways. While only used for the statues of the gods, it nonetheless showed cross-zone effects.

Imagine what would happen if the Shadow Behemoth was not killed, and as such there was an incursion of Aatxes and Shades coming out not just from Godslost Swamp, but Blackroot Cut as well?

Imagine what would happen if the Shatterer survives and begins flying back and forth, raining deadly crystal along the Dragonbrand, and not just in Blazeridge Steppes but in Iron Marches and Fields of Ruin too.

Imagine if the Megadestroyer survives and erupts the volcano, causing environmental effects of lava moving down the mountainside and running into Straits of Devastation’s eastern edge, burning that forest down (and the risen too) and spawning destroyers/embers/lava elementals causing a change of foes, more variety in gameplay!

Imagine if they took the concept of Scarlet’s invasions and made zone-specific ones, where failure means that zone-specific invasion moves to a neighboring zone.

But now, all that possibility, all that potential, gone.

I’m not sure if this loss outweighs the benefits of the megaserver.

I’m guessing it’ll function like Tasty Pudding says. Hard to say. I would argue the same may happen for Zenith weapons.

It all depends on whether ArenaNet both would be capable of assigning different transmutation costs to each skin, and be willing to create the player convenience of doing such.

The achievements are meant to be something to do in normal gameplay over time. A long time in some cases (like WvW/PvP achievements). If WvW and PvP have a lot of “long term achievements” I don’t see why PvE couldn’t.

Though I would agree that the slayer category could use changing. I mean, just doing the personal story alone would allow you to finish Zhaitan’s Bane before half of the game’s completed. Not to mention the others filled via dungeons (Inquest, Nightmare Court, Sons of Svanir, Flame Legion, Bandit, and Dredge). Those could use additional tiers.

Doesn’t the skill challenge berserking quaggan in Gendarran Fields unintentionally attack you? While you’re trying to enrage her to make her go into the berserking form, she’s not out to harm you.

Edit: But given Baroosh during the personal story, it may be that with time and practice they can learn self-control while berserking. Could be that their social stigma prevents such, as they always try to avoid it. In fact, if I recall correctly the guards in Urgulp (Snowden Drifts quaggan village) mention such about learning to control their berserking… Sadly few dialogue from there is on the wiki it seems.

I wouldn’t see how binding a spirit (/Shade) would be a “phenomena” to the necromancer profession given the inclusion of spectral skills (Spectral Armor, Spectral Form, Spectral Grasp). These skills show that necromancers delved into the spiritual side of things in the past 250 years – rather, they delved more into it, given that non-Canthan necromancers took on the main Ritualist role of guiding spirits to the afterlife.

The Path of Revelations lines point to Orr. This was heavily hinted in an interview with Jeff Grubb (he hinted that it “could refer to Orr and the lost city of Arah”) and then in Orr (specifically Arah explorable), we have “answers” that “lie in waiting.”

Actual words by Jeff Grubb:

It is possible that the cryptic message refers to the Dragons – “a land unwaking” could be the risen kingdom of Orr, and answers to the origin of the dragons do lie there.
http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/02/guild-wars-2-interview/

Which is interesting because no one has actually found anything about the origin of the dragons…

Wanderer.3248:

If the Brisban wildlands are anything to go buy we should expect to see corrupted hyleck, skrit, spiders, raptors, wargs and moas. Corrupted skrit would be interesting.

Presuming that Mordremoth will even corrupt animals and not just plants (though all ED can corrupt all things it seems, each do hold a certain preference for what/how they’ll corrupt).

We may only see (at first) corrupted Husks, Sylvan/Nightmare Hounds, and Mosshearts.

Also, skritt, not skrit. Don’t forget, should Mordremoth corrupt animals too, we’d get corrupted asura and bandits.

@Evans: You’re welcome. And yeah, thought I was mispelling.

It would seem that a living person is needed, not just a soul. Otherwise, why use living people at all?

Nothing proves sylvari are minions of Mordremoth. Stop saying it is a fact when it is not.

And if he were the source of sylvari, then awake or asleep his minions would have remained loyal and fanatic for him, just like others (e.g., the Great Destroyer and Drakkar).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mostly_Harmless_Quaggan

Quaggans are peaceful by nature and rarely become aggressive unless provoked. When quaggans are threatened or in pain, their adrenaline levels surge and parts of their skin turn a dark-scarlet hue. Fangs erupt from their mouths and their flippers grow long, formidable talons. While in this state, instinct overcomes rational thought and the quaggan is little more than an aquatic engine of destruction. They are deeply embarrassed when they display such aggression, and it is considered a social faux pas among their people.

This transformation is the primary reason quaggans actively avoid fighting—they are a danger to themselves and others while in this state. They are unreasoning brutes driven only to destroy, and they think nothing of tactics or collateral damage. Heroic quaggans are capable of being a little more aggressive without succumbing to their rage, but they are looked upon by their society as being a bit odd.

Basically they go Hulk if they become angered and this is looked down upon by quaggan society. It isn’t that their berserking is why they are peaceful, but that they’re shamed of berserking thus have to remain peaceful to avoid it – because when they’re berserking it means they cannot tell friend from foe, and they can hurt their allies as much as their enemies. This is why the quaggan in Orr are such a weird sight if you talk to them – they’ve begun to embrace their berserking aspect in order to help protect others.

It’s far from helping them survive because they don’t think of survival, or as mentioned allies, when berserking.

@Aaron: Nightmares are effectively malevolent spirits by all indications, and that’s what shades may be too – spirits summoned by the necromancer (akin to ritualists in GW1). So the Shadow Fiends and Shades may only differ in that one is bound and the other is wild.

Similarly, “demons” in GW can simply defined as “a living being formed directly from the Mists”. Razah would count as such – including all things within the Fractals and any other native to the Mists. Malevolence in them is common, but not absolute.

Not to mention that kodan don’t have surnames and the like,their names are based on what defines them as an individual. So just because they share the word “Moon” in their name doesn’t mean they hold any relation or ties.

1) Seemingly infinite – there’s only three trees, and when a juggernaut dies it simply is reborn at the tree. Never explained though on any limits, but it’s not done so often because of cultural reasons – it’s a very high honor to be turned into a juggernaut and since it effectively gives immortality to the individual careful consideration has to be done – don’t want to give a criminal immortality, do ya?
2) Possible, never really explained as said.
3) See above.
4) Extremely unlikely. They look nothing alike and the Pale Tree doesn’t transform, it doesn’t need living sacrifices to make sylvari. Sylvari are akin to fruit, the juggernauts are literally constructs made from plant materials and possessed by the sacrificee’s soul (it isn’t a literal transformation as we can still see the human body after the juggernaut’s made – they could have easily removed it if it was the body transforming).
5) With knowing next to nothing on Mordremoth, highly unlikely still due to the lack of mental change in juggernauts. Keep in mind, dragon minions are fanatically devoted to their dragon. Furthermore, dragon minions are not immortal.
6) Likely just mechanics to keep the mission from being too hard.
7) Indications to me show that the soul is just tied to the Forever Tree, not consumed by it. Otherwise the juggernauts would be effectively mindless, rather than having their original personality and capable of speech even (and holding their original names too). The line likely refers to the whole connection of effective-immortality so long as the Forever Tree lives.
8) The kurzicks are highly religious and view many things as signs of the gods or wait for something that can count as a sign of the gods to lead them. It isn’t mere volunteering, since anyone can volunteer – including those who’d abuse the power. They have to be deemed worthy; whether this is done by the actual gods (unlikely IMO), or the Redemptors interpreting “signs of the gods” is unknown, but I’m betting the later.

ukuni.8745:

there are a lot of handy benefits to a mega server other then bringing players together like putting players that have finished the ps together and the same for players that havnt together, now the question would be how to implement it, firstly story isn’t a big thing here simply because the ps covers the important parts, players that have beat the main story get a new map that covers cleaning up Orr, wait what about all the old stuff how can players get back to that, well I had a thought on that the pale tree has the ability to show the past and future with the dream now let’s say trehearne (who’s wyld hunt is the cleanse Orr) sticks around to aid in the clean up gets a weak version of that and is able to show people the past and those players who have beaten the ps can go back to the old map to enjoy all the old events and get placed back in the old Orr bracket of the mega server, players who havnt beaten the ps stay in the old Orr map, now what if people don’t care to beat the ps and just want to enjoy the new content well same thing with trehearne but shows them what could happen if they beat zhitan but only available to level 80s, everyone wins in this eexcept new players who have to get to level 80

As SunRoamer said, this is phasing which Anet said they will not have – see Tower of Nightmares and Lion’s Arch itself for examples, Anet will alter it for everyone at the same time. Megaservers do make phasing’s problems (dividing the playerbase) a smaller issue because the least common phasing versions would be combined cross-servers thus not so unpopulated, but unless Anet changes their mind about how they’re doing the Living World concept, which I doubt will happen tbh, we won’t see phasing.

SunRoamer.5103:

They just have to figure out what they want to do about the time conundrum caused by Personal Story being locked in the past. Maybe they are going to retire it? There have been different suggestions around the forums already, but having different versions of the same maps is highly unlikely.

Why remove it? Just keep it there and make sure it’s clear “these are past events”. Hopefully they’ll one day get about to making LW Season 1 as an extension to the PS, and make Season 2 in the same format from the get go (or at least a much similar one that can make it function as a continuation). Won’t hold my breath for either though.

But there’s no need to remove the PS – especially since the game promises in advertisements the chance to face and kill Zhaitan… which will become no longer the case, thus false advertisement, thus fraud.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

What is the story behind different server? If there is lore needed for megaserver then we should have a simple explanation for the realms (never heard one)?

Different servers hold no lore, except possibly via WvW in which the other two are – as far as we know – “not (our) Tyria”. And Anet doesn’t seem interested in explaining WvW in lore so I doubt we’ll ever get server explanations in lore.

They are there because those in the Mists are merely copies. They’re not actual Ascalonian ghosts from the Foefire.

Also, there are dredge in WvW (and the Mists in general – Underground Fractal counts in the same sense). And Nightmares are from the Mists too (specifically, however, the Underworld which we do not see – we did see them there in GW1, however) – they invaded Tyria directly from the Underworld, so there’s no reason they would be elsewhere. There’s a lot of areas within the Mists we haven’t seen – WvW/sPvP isn’t all there is to the Mists.

It’s far from an inconsistency. You’re hardly accounting for everything and the ghosts aren’t traveling there either. In WvW maps alone you can find: grawl (Edge), ogres (Edge and EB), harpies (EB), kodan (Edge), centaurs (borderlands), skritt (borderlands), Ascalonian ghosts (EB), skale (EB), wurms (borderlands), dredge (EB), krait (EB; formerly borderlands), formerly quaggans in borderlands, hylek (EB), and of course the playable races. If you add in Fractals you get more grawl, humans, charr, asura, norn, dredge, krait, etc. And even for what we see, as said the Mists is much bigger than we can go to – even much bigger than what we can go to in both GW1 and GW2 combined.

Wanderer.3248:

I’m thinking of the tree in the movie poltergeist. I doubt that minions of the jungle dragon will look all flowery and nice.

Plants with vibrant colors can easily be very deadly. If you’ve seen the movie Jamanji then you’d know. :P

The megaserver is just a mechanic to get more players together in more desolate zones/smaller servers (in the long term). The cleansing of Orr would have to be actual story content. The megaserver itself doesn’t really affect the story, it just allows a more evened out the playerbase.

The Nightmare Court seeing the Elder Dragons as threats still does put a small monkey wrench into the “Nightmare is Mordremoth’s influence” – but since we don’t know how the Elder Dragons view each other (we just know that they’re not working together), it’s not an impossibility just because of that – because we don’t know how the Nightmare Court would view Mordremoth either. Now that he’s awake though we should see their reaction in season 2.

More or less what I was saying – all examples (aka that one area is our only example) has a “one soul, one body” rule.

We have no confirmation that Kralkatorrik’s the largest, actually.

Kralkatorrik is said to be 1,000 feet tall. Zhaitan’s model was measured and he’s just as big (roughly, though his height is hard to determine due to his whole “missing bottom half and his main forearms aren’t the same length” issue).

1. Yes, but all examples seen require the original spirit to be out of the body (see the heart Fight life-stealing minions in Hellion Forest in which Bria’s Shadow Fiend inhabit the body of charr loggers after their spirits have been displaced).
2. There’s a bunch of lore on spirits/ghosts. If you’ve been to Ascalon, you’ve seen an army of them. There really isn’t a one-stop-shop for spirit lore, and the entirety of lore on souls is rather large and wide to just give a brief summary (as unlike other things, the lore around spirits is more of “a little about different things” than “a lot about few things”).

deepwinter.9015:

Bigtony.5089:

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven They mention the dragon’s roar and about Scarlet trying to arouse a dragon (not awaken one).

Kasmeer: Don’t hold anything back. We’re all ears. You know Scarlet better than any of us. After all, you killed her. So, what’s Taimi talking about?

You: I think all of Tyria heard that dragon’s cry.

Kasmeer: Is that what you think it was? A dragon? Oh, it would make so much sense to think that Scarlet was messing with the dragons.

You: I believe that was her plan all along. Her drill caused one of them to stir.

Kasmeer: Yes, we heard it too. Which one do you think it was? Primordus? Kralkatorrik? Jormag? Do you think one is sleeping beneath Lion’s Arch?

You: No. I think Scarlet disturbed the ley lines, knowing they feed the dragons.

Kasmeer: I don’t understand.

You: The dragons consume magic. The ley lines are currents in an ocean of magic.

Kasmeer: And Scarlet threw a giant rock in that pool, sending ripples out to the dragon. It makes sense. You’re brilliant.

Source.

Sounds an awful like we knew it was a dragon waking up…

I see nothing in that dialogue that shows the characters know a dragon woke up. They just know the roar was of a dragon, speculate Scarlet was aiming to feed dragons, and denies one sleeping beneath Lion’s Arch.

Jeff.4680:

Angel McCoy has only proven to be a major disappointment to Guild Wars lore fans. Without a doubt, the lighthearted stuff is contributor.

Going for a darker tone like some of the stories were set up in the original Guild Wars should help, but the most important thing is that she makes it a priority to stay true to previously established lore.

Angel McCoy doesn’t write the Living Story all by her self, you know. Why is she alone getting the heat? If I recall correctly, there are 4 writers (Angel, Scott, and two others) who have been writing the LW stuff, all supervised under Bobby Stein (Angel and Scott are the lead writers for the LW though).

Besides, wanna know a fun fact? Same people who’re writing the Living World…. wrote War in Kryta. And that was kitten dark and true to previously established lore. So we know that they can write decent/good plots. Honestly, I think the well reception that WiK got is what led to this mess – they tested the LW concept in GW1, and brought it forth in GW2; but if so, they messed up on two things: 1) GW1 was fully instanced, GW2 is not (MASSIVE importance in this set up), and 2) the temporary nature in GW2 didn’t exist with Beyond in GW1.

The kodan scattering isn’t speculation, I’d like to note, but specifically mentioned in their blog post. Most fled north, only a few fled south. Those few Sanctuaries account for all kodan we see.

I’ve always viewed that as a naming mishap – the name meant to go to a kodan, but put on an icebrood wolf on accident. I’ve looked and there’s nothing on it that I’ve found.

Jormag definitely notices the Sons of Svanir because he knows everything his minions know (or there’s some kind of hive mind going on there). And he certainly does care about them – it’s denoted multiple times that Jormag prefers to have followers go to him before he corrupts them, rather than corrupting to enslave like the other Elder Dragons (though the Sons of Svanir are known to do the latter). But he doesn’t care if they start killing each other, and they aren’t “his army” so much as “ants who work for him.”

We are indeed told that if dragon minions cross each other, they will attack. But if you actually read my full post you’d note that I brought that up specifically.

As for Zhaitan’s appearance, the answer is given in the interview I linked in the post you quoted.

So the “change” is a combination of the earlier concept arts being used to show the player characters’ perspective – what they think Zhaitan looks like after seeing the beast from a far, far distance (thus not seeing the details of its appearance) – as well as weakening the dragon throughout the invasion of Orr. Added in a mix of internal development going from serpentine to traditional european to this eldritch abomination of dragons.

Kalavier.1097:

edit: Out of all the dragons, Zhaitan was the most agressive in attacking others.

Primordus may be just as agressive, but he’s dealing with Dwarves and other still underground forces/races/creatures.

Jormag is pushing, but not majorly, most Sons of Svanir spreading corruption with icebrood not doing as much.

Branded stay on the brand, hardly leave it.

Bubbles may simply be sitting down there eating magic or not doing much. Or healing from any wounds taken during the forcing of other races from the deep.

Zhaitan was most aggressive because he’s been right on civilization’s footsteps. The others haven’t so much after kicking the races from their homes.

Tamias.7059:

I don’t know that this is actually true. Sure, in A Light in the Darkness, we go through a portal, but we appear to be running around in a physical location in the sylvari opening mission as well, where we kill monsters and collect loot – but presumably, the sylvari’s physical body is sitting in a pod in the Pale Tree somewhere in final states of development (actually, this is definitely the case, as we see in the sylvari opening cinematic). And in What Scarlet Saw, Scarlet is physically exploring her mind and the Dream, but still very much fixed in place in Omadd’s Isolation Module (she even wonders at one point whether she’d be able to see herself in Rata Sum).

Again, I think you’re trying to construct concrete rules for parts of the lore that were very deliberately vaguely defined, and I don’t think it’s going to work.

There’s a very real difference between a mental representation of a body, and the body itself – just as there’s a difference between a ghost which looks like a body, and the body itself.

If Anet didn’t want to make A Light in the Darkness to seem like the physical body is moving, then they could easily have shown this – they didn’t need the portal, they could have done a post-processing effect and dialogue to show it wasn’t physical, and they could have put a ghost effect on the PC entering the Orrian area.

As shown by the risen in A Light in the Darkness, you don’t need a physical body to be in the Dream, but all indications show that A Light in the Darkness is entering with the physical body. Furthermore, if you talk to Trahearne and the Pale Tree before entering the Dream, they mention that we’ll be entering the Dream (or “enter the vision”), not simply, say, watching it or connecting or whathaveyou.

On an aside – there’s no loot in the sylvari tutorial.

Tamias.7059:

Scarlet went into a Isolation Module where she was completely cut off from the world, and Vorpp was talking about the sylvari Dream. If the Dream was something external to the sylvari, then it would have been impossible to experience it inside the Isolation Module, and commune with the Pale Tree.

Nothing says Scarlet was experiencing the Dream, not even Vorpp’s mention of the Dream on the topic. And I would disagree with that conclusion anyways because she went into her mental consciousness and as I hope we all know, the Dream is indeed hold a mental connection thus would be accessible mentally.

Tamias.7059:

Konig has said as much before – that the White Stag, an animal that is not related to the sylvari, but still experiences the Dream, is evidence that the Dream extrinsic to the sylvari. I believe this is a commonly parroted misconception – actually we know barely anything about the White Stag, certainly not enough definitively state that it has nothing to do with the sylvari. Caithe even says, it is “a manifestation of the faith and joy of our race”.

The full line is “The white stag is a creature of the Dream, symbolizing hope. It is a manifestation of the faith and joy of our race.” – this seems no different than say, the American Flag, which is a symbol, and in turn a manifestation of what it represents, for Americans. Or similarly, how the moon is treated as a symbol for people, and as a symbol is a manifestation of what the symbol’s for. That’s all Caithe is saying – it’s treated as a symbol for the sylvari race. Doesn’t mean it’s related to them or is made by them or whatnot.

There’s a small glitch in the second point made for what’s weird about Anise:

When Queen Jennah’s father died and she was invested to the Krytan throne, she appointed Countess Anise to the rank of Master Exemplar.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Line_of_Duty_%E2%80%93_The_Three_Military_Orders_of_Kryta

Anise is also said, as pointed out, to have been Jennah’s bodyguard when Jennah was so young. I also recall reading that they were childhood friends, though I don’t recall where so I may be misremembering. Even not including the last, I see no reason for her age to be really an issue – it is a trope to have children, especially very important ones, to have a personal bodyguard or servant that is roughly the same age of the child in the hopes of giving the child someone to relate to and in turn become friends – royal children would often be kept from other children simply due to the nature of such. Nobilit Jew too. Anise could easily have been one such person. And with Jennah having appointed Anise, it means she couldn’t have been leader of the Shining Blade, which seems to be what the OP is getting at.

I see nothing strange with her mention of Grenth either, since she is talking about death and killing. It isn’t like mesmers can only revere Lyssa. Grenth also makes sense on an aside from Dwayna because she is basically saying “may death stay his hand in this battle”.

And the other two, despite the ellipses, do not sound like pauses or self-correction when spoken (at least to my memory and it never struck out) – and if this is intentional then they would have told the voice actress to include such in the voice over.

And I would take what the gossiping citizens with a massive grain of salt. Otherwise we’d have to believe that Jennah is training a secret army of quaggan.

On an aside – nothing says Livia was the leader of the Shining Blade in Sea of Sorrows – just the superior of those on the boat.

It is possible Anise = Livia, but I don’t think it’s so sure cut as folks make it out to be. Also, isn’t this like the 5th thread on this very exact theory with the same exact support (nothing new, nothing forgotten…). Gods I wish the search function worked. -.-

The Dream of Dreams is an actual place. Not just some figment of someone’s imagination. The name “dream” (just like the name “nightmare”) are merely metaphorical.

Tamias.7059:

Again, I think you’re overthinking the mechanics of dragon corruption. Kralkatorrik does plenty of “mental” corruption as well, just read Edge of Destiny.

Not really. He simply defends against attacks on his mentality. I would hardly call that being “mental corruption” – it’s just him defending against a mental attack. This is a common theme amongst any fictional work dealing with mental attacks – the attacked can defend against the mental attack if smart enough. This is no different.

Tamias.7059:

Nothing says that the Tome of Rubicon is an “invalid” source of information. Just that it’s not going to be completely accurate, and so its word shouldn’t be taken as gospel. Actually, of what we know about its contents (a limited amount, admittedly), much has been shown to be pretty reliable so far.

Of the two things we’ve learned from it, only half of it has. It’s not a very good stance for empirical evidence.

Tamias.7059:

Doesn’t seem to be much info on the wiki. What does the Dragon’s Eye actually do? If we’re looking for a DSD-related magic that shields against dragon corruption, btw, the krait orb may be a candidate.

We never see what it does – just that it’s ancient dwarven gem (it’s large and purple, like an amethyst) and it is said to be capable of helping against the Elder Dragons. Thank you, ArenaNet, for the very poor show of lore (like all the ‘help me find/study artifacts!’ Orrian events… we learn nothing of these artifacts…).

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Well, the only thing we, as players, have to do is capturing someone from the nightmare court and bring him to the end of Arah P3, where warden Illyra has freed the risen chicken, to free the sylvari. If the sylvari isn’t obsessed by the nightmare after the ritual, we’ve proven that the nightmare is an incarnation of Mordremoth’s influence and that the sylvari are indeed dragonminions. The pure luck is accountable for the finding of Ventari’s Tablet by the Pale Tree, which has turned the sylvari as race into a “good one”. We have to see how Mordremoth’s awakening will influence the dream, if the Pale Tree is able to resist the influence of Mordremoth.

I fail to see how a sylvari turning normal if it was a Nightmare Courtier and underwent a mentality cleansing ritual means all sylvari are dragon minions and the Ventari’s Tablet is what freed them.

Even if that ritual cleans Nightmare Courtiers, all that means is that 1) the ritual cleans any mental alterations and not just dragon corruption, or 2) the Nightmare is tied to the Elder Dragons (not necessarily Mordremoth!). Doesn’t prove sylvari on a whole as cleansed dragon minions – let alone non-cleasned ones (given no change in Illyra, that seems like if they are dragon minions, then they were cleansed already somehow – and the Ventari Tablet holds no magic to do such a feat).

Tamias.7059:

I think you’re probably overcomplicating this.

Or you’re oversimplifying it. There is a very real, very distinct difference between the Dream of Dreams and a hive mind. And in fact, ArenaNet HAS explained this in Ghosts of Ascalon – sadly, my books are packed away from packing, but I pointed this out to you in another thread of yours trying to link sylvari to dragon minions, in which while eating with Dougal, Killeen explains that the Dream of Dreams is not a hive mind – stating so very specifically. Look in your past threads for such, since I cannot provide a specific page at this point (sorry).

((Edit: Did the work and looked through threads you commented in. Here you go:

“It isn’t mind reading, and we aren’t all connected into one big mass mind. However, before coming into this world, all sylvari are united in the Dream of Dreams.”
Killeen, Ghosts of Ascalon – Page 120

There you have it, again, Dream of Dreams is not “one big mass mind” and there’s no mind reading involved – ergo, not a hive mind, unlike dragon minions.

For more details, see this post. ))

So yes, ArenaNet does work out “the differences between different hiveminds in Tyria”. It isn’t an hour’s worth, but it doesn’t need to be either.

Tamias.7059:

in the Guild Wars universe a mind or a consciousness very much can also be a (meta)physical location. There’s quite a lot in Edge of Destiny, for example to support this – the passages I’m thinking of are the ones where Snaff is trying to access Kralkatorrik’s mind, and the book speaks of it as if he is physically exploring it, but I’m sure there are plenty of other examples as well.

That is more of a vision, then an actual location you can go to. When I say metaphysical locations I mean places like the Mists and the afterlife – places for souls and the like, as souls and such typically are considered “metaphysical” in fantasy settings. The Dreams of Dreams is somewhere people can, with their own actual bodies, go to (see A Light in the Darkness) – but people’s minds, like with Kralkatorrik, is not; Snaff’s body never actually left the golem.

Tamias.7059:

Suffice to say, the only group consciousness in Guild Wars 2 that we really understand in any sort of detail is the sylvari one. The specifics of the Great Dwarf, and the method by which the dragons control their minions, aren’t very well documented at all in comparison.

I’d say dragon minion mentality is just as documented as the Dream of Dreams. We know that they hold a direct tie to the Elder Dragon, that the dragon knows what they know, and that this tie is what’s used to differentiate ally and foe amongst the dragon minions (the last comes from an old Guru2 post – which explains that this is what happened with the Dragonspawn in Edge of Destiny).

Tamias.7059:

Besides, from what Vorpp says in A Study in Scarlet, specifically “I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection? We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusions.”, it seems that the Dream really is something that is “built-in” to the sylvari (as for the White Stag, well, Caithe describes it as “a manifestation of the faith and joy of our race”, so although it exists both in reality and the Dream, it is still very much related to the sylvari).

I see nothing surmising that the Dream is built-in to the sylvari in Vorpp’s dialogue.

Tamias.7059:

If Malyck didn’t dream, then the Nightmare Court (who call him the Harbinger, interesting choice of words given that two short years afterward the jungle dragon would awaken) going after his tree to convert it to nightmare would be a fruitless task, given than a Dream is a necessary vector for spreading nightmare. Reread all the dialogue in the Where Life Goes storyline again. I think you’ll be convinced that Malyck is a Dreamer, of sorts.

The title “harbinger” is fully unrelated to Mordremoth’s awakening (rather obvious since he held no role in it). Its title is already explained: his existence is proof that the Nightmare Court do not need to twist the Pale Tree but can simply go to this other tree and forsake the Pale Tree – effectively starting anew. Nightmare doesn’t need to be spread to the dream – they simply need to teach the sylvari their ways. You don’t need the Dream of Dreams to brainwash children – the krait do well without it, to keep from real life examples.

CHIPS.6018:

If the current Risen (weakest they can be) and other dragon minions already tie up 100% of the Pact’s manpower and airships (e.g cannot spare any men elsewhere), then the Pact will be powerless when the second (or third) Elder Dragon start their major offensive. These other elder dragons hasn’t even gotten started. This is a fact.

You realize that the Pact also have offensives set up on the edges of Jormag’s territory (and, most likely, Kralkatorrik’s too – though we don’t have any zones far enough into the plot to show this – same goes for Primordus).

Also, keep in mind that the offensive against the Elder Dragon is what weakened the Pact so much – not the clean up. The assault to invade Orr and attack Zhaitan resulted in a lot of manpower and equipment losses – we see a good deal of this in the personal story, all those NPC deaths and then some.

So it isn’t “the weakened risen tie the Pact up 100%” but rather “the invasion and battle against Zhaitan and his forces had dealt such a blow and resulted in so many deaths that cleaning up the risen, as well as having a basic defensive set up for other known Elder Dragon territory edges, has tied up all remaining Pact forces as they rebuild for the next Elder Dragon assault.”

CHIPS.6018:

So listen to this. If this opinion of yours (the Pact cannot spare any men elsewhere) is true, then the Pact already lost. This is a fact.

The Pact eliminated an Elder Dragon – prior to this, one fifth of their overall purpose was completed within months. I’d hardly call that a failure or losing. It’s just that:

1) They do not have the resources to go after things not their personal objective, when they are fully reliant on others for said resources.
2) They are recovering and thus shouldn’t be making arbitrary battles that they don’t need to.
3) And finally, it’s not their job to go after terrorists who only gains the upper hand when utilizing surprise attacks (or in the final case, when the people refuse to set up defenses – I mean, come on, the Captain’s Council may as well put a freaking bull’s eye target sign).

The expectation is there cuz there’s so many kittenes who do pull it that kind of kitten. But those jokes are funny only to the joker. Which is not good for companies.

I don’t think that the ogres are in a tight space. They may be between the Brand and charr but they hold the entire Blazeridge Mountains, and we don’t know how far east they run. Furthermore, unlike other new races to continental Tyria, the ogres are invaders, not refugees. The Brand has actually helped them take land – until they got so far west they hit it.

The “Redeemed Realm” (aka renamed Realm of Torment) only came from the gw.dat, actually, which is strictly “non-canon until in-game.” In other words, it doesn’t exist in canon – it was planned but scrapped for unknown reasons.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jormag is certainly aggressive, but that doesn’t make him the strongest. The Norn tend to fight their foes one-on-one, since they don’t believe in armies… nor in siege equipment it would seem. Apart from the Claw of Jormag battle, we see very little of Norn using siege equipment, which would be the right weapon to use against dragons. So the deaths that Jormag caused may have been a case of a lot of fool hearty overconfident Norn running in for the slaughter, with the wrong kinds of weapons. You can’t just fight an Elder Dragon with swords and bows alone.

Norn do utilize siege weaponry – one norn in Hoelbrak (upper levels of Wolf Lodge I think, might be Bear though) wants to use Jormag’s tooth as the tip of a giant ballistae even, his trade being siege weaponry. Not common, but used. With the hundreds of norn comments I was going off of the skaald Old Fiach accounting of the events. Rather simple but Jormag apparently cut through hundreds of norn at a time according to him (likely embellished, mind you), and while norn may not be going at it with the right weapons, they’re far from easy fighters to best when you have hundreds of them going at you at once.

dace.8019:

Yeah that’s how I interpreted the cinematic too. We don’t explicitly know that the “light” we see travelling over the land is actually magic. It could be a kind of short circuit, backlash or dissipation of magic and not necessarily a steady flow. There is no line that we can see in the world that is travelling unimpeded to Mordremoth’s apparent domain, so what we see may have been fleeting.

We don’t see the light because the ley lines it goes through is deep underground. Showing us the light on the surface was just aesthetics – as Angel McCoy said elsewhere, the cinematic was just for players.

Though we do see some continuous (even now) magic along that line – at Thaumanova. So the leyline hasn’t been deprived.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Zhaitan was clubbered into submission pretty easily, so I’d put him pretty low on the list.
• Jormag lost a tooth, so he’s clearly not invincible.
• Kralkatorrik, I honestly don’t know. He killed Glint, and has yet to meet his match.
• Primordus seems powerful, but not very big when we see him in Eye of the North. Does size equal strength? I dare not say.
• Mordremoth and Bubbles, we know too little about them to make any definitive claims about their strength. Mordremoth’s mental influence seems to reach far though.

If I had to pick the strongest, I’d probably go with Kralkatorrik or Mordremoth. Although in all fairness, Primordus has been fighting overwhelming numbers of opposition and is still pressing forward. As far as armies go, his army seems quite tough and organized.

Kralkatorrik got crippled by a single asura mind (mind you, a great asura) and nearly died by Destiny’s Edge minus Logan plus Glint. Jormag slaughtered thousands of norn and kodan (and if norn skaalds are to be believed, hundreds of norn at once) and even killed a Spirit of the Wild – only losing a single tooth in the process, to a norn blessed by multiple Spirits of the Wild and with an ancient jotun (magical?) scroll.

Mordremoth’s mental influence? What mental influence? We have no true indication that Mordremoth was the entity in Scarlet’s mind.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

dace.8019:

Correct me if my correction is incorrect (:D) but don’t we learn at the end of the LS that Scarlet’s ley line drilling disrupted the flow of magic, which caused Mordremoth to stir, not feeding it more as was assumed.

But that is the cycle. Dragon eats magic, dragon goes to sleep, dragon expels magic, after enough energy is expelled dragon wakes up, and then dragon starts eating magic. Maybe that was the solution to deal with the dragon, it was put to sleep there, on a constant stream of magic that it then expels and that because the same magic it eats, never waking up because it never expels enough magic.

@dace: In the cinematic, we see magic traveling to Mordremoth and going into its mouth after the Breachmaker reached its target (the ley lines). So it seems that Mordremoth was fed via Scarlet disrupting the ley lines (remember, she disrupted an interjection – I think what happened was that she prevented the ley lines from going anywhere but the one direction to Mordremoth).

@Rainbow: As proven in Edge of Destiny, the Elder Dragons actually need magic to rise. Since they expel magic while in hibernation, their champions wake up to give them magic – Drakkar did this for Jormag (Drakkar siphoned magic from the first Sons of Svanir and fed it to Jormag), and the Great Destroyer did this for Glint. We don’t know who the champions were for the other Elder Dragons though, but Mordremoth woke up early as he didn’t have a champion to wake him.

We know that the Elder Dragons rise when magic in the world has gotten high – with two champions (Great Destroyer and Drakkar) waking up before their Elder Dragon, it seems that the champions are given the task to determine when magic is high enough in the world to satiate their dragon.

There’s (imo) three candidates for who’s Zhaitan’s champion was, with two likely ones. The Giganticus Lupicus was confirmed to have been a minion from the previous rise and thus could have been the one to rise Zhaitan, and there’s the Maw from Sea of Sorrows which was a leviathan in the area of the sunken Orr, only appearing weeks before Zhaitan rose.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I am not saying that Orr isn’t corrupted. I’m just saying it wasn’t Zhaitan.

Uh huh. Right. That explains why risen are defending the corruption. It explains this as well:

Trahearne: The corruption is gone from this chamber. It will take time to spread throughout Orr…assuming we can destroy the dragon.

To cleanse Zhaitan’s corruption from Orr, we had to connect with the dying spirit of the land. After finding the source of Orr’s magic, Trahearne performed a powerful ritual while I defended him. Now, the land has a chance to recover—once the dragon is destroyed. (from the My Story journal)

And then from Against the Corruption:
Trahearne: I have created a ritual that might cleanse the dragon’s corruption. If it succeeds, this mission could be a turning point in the war.

Trahearne and I led a mission into Orr’s Royal Tombs in an attempt to cast the ritual that will cleanse the land of Zhaitan’s corruption. We got results, but the results didn’t last. We realized we needed to cast the ritual in a different location known as the Source of Orr, and so we set out to find this location (also from the My Story tab)

So yes, the corruption was Zhaitan’s – Trahearne has been studying ZHaitan’s corruption all his life (all 23 years), so I would expect him to be telling the truth and not be wrong here. Not every NPC lies, speculates, or is wrong you know. And King Reza’s lines was just, as Rainbow Spirit said, stating that killing the Elder Dragon doesn’t end the corruption. It’s the same explanation given to why the risen don’t just drop dead instantly – why we still see them even in Arah explorable.

The Realm of Torment, according to Sea of Sorrows at least, belongs to Grenth. Not Kormir.

Miroe, keep in mind that the Six Gods left over 45 years before the first of the Elder Dragons awoke – they may not even had known of the Elder Dragons waking until Zhaitan (given that Zhaitan has stolen souls from Grenth, Grenth knows of it), but hey, Zhaitans’ dead now. Not like the Six Gods interferred when Abaddon wrecked up the place anyways, so why would they over a single Elder Dragon (again, no indication they know of Primordus, Jormag, or the other three Elder Dragons).

I wouldn’t consider that a jerk since obviously fake update notes have been a thing since the first April’s Fools GW experience. But all of Anet’s jokes are made for the players having fun – like the Commando stuff.

I don’t think they’re mindless. Nothing really even implies that they are. What’s implied is that they’re amoral (aka don’t care about us insignificant ants).

And I think being capable of binding an Elder Dragon would be seriously undermining the whole “epicness” of Elder Dragons, especially if it wakes up. I mean, when they wake they shatter mountain ranges (Jormag) or raise landscapes (Zhaitan). Whatever binds them would have to be stronger/heavier than that – and cannot be magic else the dragon would just eat its prison, lol.

A full body meatshield, of course. :P

As kyro said, wrong forum.

But as said in another thread for the same worry, ArenaNet are never jerks when it comes to their April’s Fools jokes, so no, they won’t go “haha, just kidding! There is no patch!” – not even as the announcement of no patch being the joke.

• I doubt the kodan are near extinction. When Jormag awoke, their dozens+ Sanctuaries were scattered to both north and south (compared to the amount that went north, only a “few” went south). Some where capsized then and there, but a lot still escaped and went in multiple directions. Four went south towards Tyria – and of the four, one was sunk by Claws of Jormag, and one is sinking now. They may not offer much except in the spiritual aspects (and mastery of ice magic it seems), they’re far from extinct.
• Quaggan are more likely closer to extinction, but I would argue that they hold stronger ground than the OP gives credit for. Firstly, unlike the kodan the quaggan existed in at least two places – for all we know, they lived in other places throughout Tyria’s watery depths. And while the southern quaggan’s royalty was killed off, they hold a large number of villages still – and we don’t know if all fled north to Tyria, or if they scattered like the kodan; same with the northern quaggan (who have lost a lot more numbers than the southern quaggan and are certainly likely close to extinction), we don’t know if they scattered in all directions or to the same ones.
• I think hylek repopulate far too fast to be anywhere close to extinction – especially at the numbers we see in-game. Not to mention there are their toad-cousins the heket with unknown status.

I would say that the northern quaggans – of which they lost 3 of their 5 great villages, and of those the villages that remain, there’s only 3 others (one of which suffers greatly in the Personal Story). Furthermore, they cannot survive warm waters – and with how far south they’re getting pushed, they’re entering warm waters – but their eggs cannot survive the ever-chilling waters that Jormag’s corruption is causing. So unless they have a large population unknown elsewhere, the northern quaggans are going to go extinct if Jormag’s not killed within a decade or so. Southern quaggans are fairing much better, even with krait problems and losing their royalty.

Here’s some other possible races risking extinction:

• Centaurs. In their lore, the centaurs are literally out of room to live – they’ve been pushed north by humans, and south by Jormag (for Modniir), and for unknown reasons out of the Maguuma Wastes it seems. Their war with humans have become just as much “we need land to survive!” as much as “I hate humanity for kicking us off our lands!” Furthermore, their unifying leader, Ulgoth, is dead story wise (or so I would presume, since we kill him in Harathi Hinterlands).
• Tengu. Yeah, you may not think it at first. But consider: all tengu from throughout the world live within the Dominion of Winds. Unless they live in freakin skyscrapers or dug deep into the earth for living space underground, the entire race lives within that one city. That’d be like saying all humans ever live within Divintiy’s Reach – not even, actually, due to how much water’s within the wall.
• Clearly the dwarves. No indication they can reproduce so they’re sterile with dwindling numbers from war.

Alice.8694:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Inquest knew about Mordremoth. Scarlet was part of the Inquest. Scarlet also partook in some dragon energy experiments (Thaumanova). Ergo, Scarlet knew of Mordremoth via the Inquest.

Why is this not a simpler deduction than “Mordremoth was always in Scarlet’s mind!” exactly?

Because she stepped out of the device before joining the inquest.

You need to re-read the short story then. She joined the Inquest in her final months/weeks in the Synergetic college, and then because of her antics with Teyo, she was exiled from Rata Sum and thus spent a few months with the hylek. Then Omadd found Scarlet again and brought her to go into the machine.

Evans.6347:

Though there is absolutely no proof or evidence for this whatsoever, I would very much enjoy a story where Scarlet’s possessing entity is the/an other pale tree, whether tainted or not by Mordremoth.

THere’s support for this, actually. The red vine is described very similar to the Pale Tree’s Circle. If you go into her lab, one of the drawings of her dream has the two drawings next to each other (touching) and the red lines almost line up completely, and on th eother end of the red-vine-only drawing there’s a very vague tree-like shape (though I may have just been seeing things). And there’s the Tower of Nightmares which was 1) sentient and 2) able to produce sylvari-like krait-like creatures, making it a possible third “sylvari tree”.

Honestly, “another sylvari tree” which told Scarlet the location of the cave (thus “Caithe’s secret” would be Malyck) was one of my longer-standing theories that kept around until Battle for LA. Though I don’t think it being tainted is needed – just innately hostile.

Evans.6347:

Whatever invaded Scarlet’s mind, the Pale Tree probably knows of it and tries to shield all Sylvari from it’s influence.

I do not think the mental protection mentioned is unique to sylvari. Vorpp says “our minds” – so he’s including asura minds as well for his observations. Meaning, at least from Vorpp’s studies, whatever broke in Scarlet’s mind exists in asura minds (if not other races too).

Honestly, that line makes me think of the Voices and the Rage of Koda. The Voices’ minds are always connected to the Mists, and as such can slowly go insane due to said connection – especially under stress. What if that is the protection removed? And Scarlet’s mind entered the Mists (this would fit perfectly with the “Dream of Dreams is part of the Mists” theory). And then you have a powerful ancient spellcaster (race) capable of entering the Mists (Lazarus/Mursaat if you didn’t figure it out ).

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

we know Zhaitan can corrupt land (Orr)

Even the affected kings of Orr never confirm that it was Zhaitan and they should know best.

Do you really need to be told that which your own eyes can see? Just look at Orr. Does that seem natural to you?

Besides, as shown by the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan, they think that removing corruption is poisoning and defiling the land. But if you must be told, we are indeed told such:

The Last King of Orr: Zhaitan can be defeated, but that will not save Orr. The land must be cleansed of this poison. Seek the source…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness
(Note: The line simply refers to killing an Elder Dragon doesn’t result in removing the dragon’s corruption – the source is the Artesian Waters, the central water that then flows elsewhere throughout Orr).

I think it’s less of a hint to “relation to Cantha” then “relation to the Empire” though – Cantha doesn’t, and most certainly didn’t in the far past, use the Mouvelian calendar. So any Canthan records of the time would be in Early/Middle/Late pre-Imperial era, related to the empire or not.

CHIPS.6018:

Why wasn’t the Pact airships on stand by around LA Konig? Why wasn’t the Order of Whisper able to gather intelligence on Scarlet and her army before this disaster? Why are the Pact engineers so far behind our enemies? Why is the Pact failing on so many levels?

Finally, go ahead Konig, tell that little girl why her parents are dead. Tell her how awesome the Pact is. Tell her why she should trust the Pact with her life.

BTW it is funny that you took a shot at attrition, which is a highly valid tactic. You seem to be confused that attrition=cannon fodders. This is obviously wrong.

How did you think US won the war against Japan? Superior tactics? No, it was the eventual 10 to 1 ratio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf

This, of course, does not mean US throw away their troops as cannon fodders.

If it was the Pact vs Aetherblades, attrition is indeed a very valid tactic. The pact have much more land and resources. So it is valid to take advantage of that.

In order:

• Go to Orr, look up. That’s where all the airships are, if they weren’t stolen by Aetherblades or aren’t in repait.
• Hell if I know. Anet loves dem good folks having this here idiot ball. Why didn’t the Priory know Scarlet had a lair right underneath them? This isn’t a fault on the Pact anyways, so why bring it up in this topic?
• They aren’t. Just because the Aetherblades added some fancy dancy shining red electromagnetic plating doesn’t make their airships superior. Though if you’re referring to everything else, the answer is obvious: Scarlet. ArenaNet wanted her to be better than everyone and anyone, and she’s the reason why the alliances were capable of progressing so far. Beyond that, I wouldn’t really say the Pact are “behind” so much as they are “developed in a different direction” – all of their weapons are geared to the mentality of “anti-Elder Dragon (minion)” whereas Scarlet’s alliances were making weapons to the mentality of “killing people.” And what works best against dragons and their minions… don’t work so well against people, especially people who have weapons geared to improving effectiveness of killing people.
• The Pact is not failing on any level, actually. They set out to kill Zhaitan, they did so. They suffered a lot of losses and spent the past year rebuilding said losses, but they’ve yet to fail. They’ve yet to suffer defeat (just got casualties).

Her parents are dead because the Captain’s Council are idiots. They’re dead because that’s war for you. How about you go tell all those husbands and wives, boys and girls who won’t be seeing their fathers, mothers, brothers, and/or sisters who joined the Pact after you selfishly sent them as kamakaze runners. It may have worked against the Fire Elemental before its rebalancing a while back, but it doesn’t work with NPCs – they can’t waypoint to rez.

I wasn’t clear what I meant by attrition. I don’t mean putting the enemy through attrition, which is indeed (most of the time) a fully valid tactics. I mean using attrition on one’s own soldiers. What Russia did was that they had too many infantry for how many weapons they could produce, so they basically sent out one guy with a gun (no ammo), the next with the ammo (no gun). You’re saying we should do the exact same thing with the Pact’s troops. Well guess what: after a (short) while, you’re going to run out of troops in the Pact.

And sorry to say but in a Pact vs Aetherblade situation, attrition would not be a valid tactic. Why? Because there’s no need for the Aetherblades to remain in conflict with the Pact. Unlike Japan who were fighting on their own soil in WWII in the situation you’re talking about, the Aetherblades have no soil to defend, no wall to be backed into – that’s the key point in battles of attrition, you have to wear down the enemy because they have no other option but to be worn down and if you cannot back them into a wall, they have other options. Especially now that they’re set up in the Mists.