Guild Wars 2

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

I very much agree with the changes to warriors especially. It accomplishes the goal of reducing their effectiveness without completely removing them from competitive play. It does it in a really great way as well, as it address all of the core issues (besides sustain, below), without changing builds that are not intended to be altered. For example, nerfing Combustive Shot for power scaling while buffing it for condition scaling reduces the AoE potential for hammer builds but keeps condition builds just as strong and maybe even stronger. The hammer damage nerfs are probably okay to get away with seeing as how you didn’t change warrior’s sustain at all.

Unsuspecting Foe I feel is actually mainly a Skull Crack nerf more than a Hammer nerf honestly, but that’s okay. Between that and making Skull Crack able to be reliably avoided, the build is actually much more balanced. It maybe was not overpowered, but it was annoying mechanically to play against. An indirect consequence of this is that Greatsword Mastery is now not really possible to get. This is a nerf to their mobility and 100B burst, which I don’t really feel needed a nerf, but it’s very minor regardless. I imagine a build like 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/30/20/0/20 will be the new norm with all of these changes.

Anyways, regarding warrior sustain: I really think that you should look into it. It’s all tied completely into Healing Signet right now. Relying only on one ability is not very fun, and due to its passive nature it’s also annoying to play against. The only true counter to Healing Signet is poison, which Cleansing Ire makes irrelevant, and burst damage. I realize warrior’s should have a counter, but I don’t think it ought to be tied to their heal only, and their sustain shouldn’t be passive either. I think something along these lines would partially accomplish what I want:

Reduce Healing Signet base heal by about 25% (from 390 to 300 hps, in line with 3 bar Healing Surge), while at the same time increase the healing power scaling so that @1000 healing power it’ll do equivalent to what it does today at 1000 healing power. This change will reduce the inherent healing of non-healing power builds, while not effecting bunkers who choose to take Clerics amulet.

Increase Healing Surge level 0 to level 2 heals, to make it more competitive with Healing Signet. Healing Surge is the only option vs burst damage, which the meta will eventually shift towards again.

Since I want to see active healing, I think making a trait that heals for every bar of adrenaline spent. I don’t want to see this tied to Cleansing Ire, since that trait is so good and it shouldn’t be a mechanic used by bunkers. Putting it in Discipline would probably make sense as a Master trait, or maybe adding it into Burst Mastery. I’m thinking something kind of minor, but able to supplement the normal healing, of around 350 per bar, with maybe 0.3 scaling. With 30 points in Discipline and 200 healing power this works out to about 150 hps if used on CD. It might be a bit too high, but this is the general idea. The point isn’t to nerf warrior sustain, it’s to reallocate it. So 100 hps less from Healing Signet, but you can get 150 hps more with this trait if used optimally.

Anyways, that’s only an idea of what I want. To sum it up, I think it would be better if warrior healing was more active and from more than one source. Great changes overall though.

anything is viable for leveling and world events, unless you run sword/axe 14/14/14/14/14 celestial or something.

Artaz.3819:

Swap Arcing Slice with Hundred Blades (gets rid of the Mace or Hammer Stun/swap/Hundred Blades issue). Give Arcing Slice a short (300-600) leap (but provides 4s Fury boon in lieu of Adrenaline loss); 8 second base cooldown and uses damage low level adrenaline damage coefficient. Done

And then you make Hammer warrior the only competitive build besides bunker? Fantastic idea. Leading a stun into 100B is never, and has literally never in the history of the game, been an issue.

Adhominem.8301:

Dand.8231:

We all knew it was coming. This quote merely confirms what we already heavily suspected.

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

So, Warrior Nerfs inc.

Therefore, I’m posting this in the hopes that we dont end up seeing an OVER nerfed version of Warriors, and end up back in the dark ages of the pre-healing buff. I still shudder when I think back to how bad War’s were in any attrition battle….

I think Unsuspecting foe is the worst offender in the entire class, with it’s + 50% crit in the adept tier. It’s easy to see why one might take it in a Mace+GS or Hammer+GS build; this single trait can take a Tanky/CC build and add huge DPS all by itself. The fix? Simple: Move to master, or nerf it numerically.

Healing Signet is the subject of lots of debate. I can understand the issue. It’s a powerful passive heal. I’ve got a few ideas that may help balance it out, so it remains as useful for Tanky builds, but not the Best-In-Slot for all builds.

Current

• Current Base: 392 HP/S, + HealingPower * 0.05 (467 HP/S @ 1500 Heal Pow)

Simple Number Tweaking

• Retuned Base: 360 HP/S + HealingPower * 0.07 (465 HP/s @ 1500 Heal Pow)

You have a link to this statement?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Warrior-Ele-2-0/first

He also said,

Yes, we’re also looking at the other classes in relation to the current iteration of the Warrior and how they vie for spaces in the meta.
If we bring down Warrior slightly, we’ll also need to adjust other things to make sure they’re also not too strong.
Also, we want to shave most things down, instead of just running around with a “buff” stick. That’s how you get a lot of power creep, and it’s something a lot of you, very astutely, have pointed out – we need to avoid that.
Keep your eyes peeled for another post later today where we expound on a lot of this type of stuff.

Back when ArenaNet were talking about boon hate, an idea a while back I had was to incorporate it into Arcing Slice.

It would read something like,

Arcing Slice

Deal double damage to foes with at least one boon. Gain might per boon.

Level 1: 1.5 coefficient with 1 might for 10s per boon
Level 2: 2.0 coefficient with 2 might for 10s per boon
Level 3: 3.0 coefficient with 3 might for 10s per boon

The coefficients listed here are the double damage, level 3 with zero boons = 1.5 coefficient.

Keep in mind this idea was created before they implemented Destruction of the Empowered, and when warriors were actually just a long forgotten myth in sPvP. I doubt it would work in the current metagame.

hooma.9642:

Larynx.2453:

hooma.9642:

nerfing zerker would really hurt builds without cleansing ire.

So… who again?

troll?

Who does not take cleansing ire in their build?

condi uses it
hammer uses it
bunker uses it
greatsword uses it

Is there some rifle build I am not aware of that is sweeping the meta by storm?

cymerdown.4103:

SYG is the most powerful utility in the game for PvP, partly because of its very short CD for the effect given. It’s only a 5 second increase, bunker Guard would still be easily viable after that change.

I thought it was a 15 seconds increase, my bad. I read it as 45 seconds.

Anyways, I still don’t agree with not nerfing Unsuspecting Foe, but whatever. It does at the least address the issue, which I am happy with.

hooma.9642:

nerfing zerker would really hurt builds without cleansing ire.

So… who again?

The main issue is that between Berserker Stance and Cleansing Ire it just isn’t that useful. It heals for a pitiful amount and warriors already have some of the best condition removal in the game.

Unfortunately I think we should expect it to remain unused for a long time. Mending’s issue isn’t a numerical one or a mechanical one, its entire niche is already taken by something better which every warrior has. If they re-allocate a warrior’s sustain into 2 or 3 traits so they aren’t forced into Healing Signet, then we might see it be being used as an alternative to Healing Signet+Cleansing Ire, but that’s really unlikely I think.

The active was increased from 3275(0.5) to 4275(0.4).

What is the point of this? The only usage of the active is when you’re <1000 health and have condition stacks on you.

Anyways, I do like the change, especially the warrior ones because they’re actually reasonable. Though, I think Unsuspecting Foe should have been included. I think if you replaced the Skullcrack nerf with moving Unsuspecting Foe to master it would be better, and it would also address the real issue which is hammer.

The only ones I really disagree with are the double nerfs to sword thief and the Stand Your Ground nerf.

hooma.9642:

dukefx.9730:

Healing signet doesn’t need a tweak imo. If you think it does then the other 2 heals need to be changed as well to maintain balance. On top of that, if you want to decrease healing, you have to give the warrior another form of sustain or else it’ll be same old free kill in PvP as it used to be. I’d be happy with both suggestions to unsuspecting foe tho.

One more thing I’d like to add regarding healing signet: Arena.net’s goal was to make signet passives strong, that’s why most signets across all professions were buffed.

mending and healing surge can be interrupted, providing no heal. healing surge used at empty adrenalin bar provides a lot less heal. so atm we has 2 heals on warrior who has some pros and a lot of risk against a riskfree no brain heal, what provides in average the most healing per second than any other warrior heal. so either healing signet is op or the other 2 heals are up.

The correct answer is that the warrior sustain is distributed very poorly and is almost 100% in a single heal.

I think that’s the point.

Agree 100% with the OP. It addresses the heart of the issue with overcompensating and making hammers and other warrior builds useless.

Moving Unsuspecting Foe forces warriors to go 0/20/30/0/20, which means they don’t have Burst Mastery. That’s a 33% reduced frequency on Earthshaker, and Cleansing Ire. It also doesn’t effect any other warrior builds very much.

Healing Signet is nice and I agree with it, especially since with this suggestion it’ll still be competitive, just not the single available choice. Healing Surge will be a viable option to bring versus heavy burst teams where Healing Signet just pales. Honestly, maybe they could also increase the healing from stage 0-2 heal too.

I might tack on a nerf to zerker stance as well. Perhaps make it 90% or 95% reduced condition duration, so very long duration conditions will still have minor impact, fear can interrupt, immobilize is still a decent CC at least at disorienting the warrior.

@reduce healing signet passive by half
LOL

That was some really horrible editing.

125 for a game, 75 for a win, 5 for a top score for hotjoin

Average of 162 per game assuming no top scores and 50% win rate. So generally yeah you will be earning less if you were like a lot of people and averaged 200-300 personal score per game. It is unfortunate, but I don’t think hotjoin should award more than tournies anyways. It also encourages a far healthier game experience.

Warrior has counters, D/D did not.

Thanks for this useful vocabulary lesson.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

ATMAvatar.5749:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Is Tornado that bad? you gain Vitality CC and Stability. Seems decent to me.

Unless it’s been fixed, even a single stack of confusion will come close to an instant-kill against someone who’s using Tornado.

Okay then. Just wondering, does the same apply to Thief Daggerstorm?

Daggerstorm is a single channel, confusion will tick once for the entire ability. Retal on the otherhand would destroy a thief using Daggerstorm. Daggerstorm is incredibly good paired with Signet of Malice though, it’s basically a full heal.

Unfortunately, the issue with things like Daggerstorm, Tornado, Rampage, and other transformations is this: Boon stripping completely trivializes dealing with them since they can be CCed (in the case of the thief, one cc will cancel the entire ability) and they can’t heal or use utilities while transformed.

Flame Barrier would be incredibly overpowered in PvP.

edit: Now that I think about it, it’s only while in Fire Attunement right? So I suppose it wouldn’t. It would make staff ele actually useful. It’s still too strong imo to be a 5 point minor trait…

ThiBash.5634:

Wouldn’t that make the game susceptible to the same issue World of Kittencraft had? As in, bring a shaman because they have Time Warp that nobody else has?

Time Warp is a mage spell >_>

risenlord.2035:

Where does this infinite amount of stability that you are speaking of come from?

Rampage duh

Yeah, I sure miss having burst damage potential for 4 seconds every 60 seconds that requires 2-3 utilities, having no sustain and being the squishiest class in the game yet only being viable in melee, having the worst condition cleanse, having kitten mobility to the point where a single chill will remove me from the game, and having the most easily avoidable, predicable, and choreographed attack sequences in the game (kitten, we still have those).

Oh those were the days! Honestly, my favorite nostalgia moment was the quickness nerf patch. “Well it can’t get any wor- Oh. Well at least we get a new projectile finisher underwater and a tooltip change!”

The only class a warrior was viable against back then was a mid-point bunker guardian.

Classes and even builds are irrelevant for most content. If you’re trying to min-max or speedclear, then I don’t think ele is the best choice. But as it stands, any dungeon can be done by any assortment of competent players in rare quality gear or higher.

I typically play with people of this mindset, and although I disagree with their choice of builds (staff support ele, venom share thief, and things like that) there’s nothing that is impossible or overly difficult to do. Maybe one wipe per explorable if we take a PUG or it’s new. Again, the important thing and keyword is competent. If you or the people you play with are complete idiots then you’ll have a much harder time if you than if you were a warrior or something.

Bastien.1645:

I might be misinterpreting your post but are you complaining that your profession is more complex and requires the usage of more skills? Because that should be fun not something to complain about… even games like WoW where you can raid with your eyes closed most classes rotation tends to be 4-5 different skills whilst watching timers/buffs/boss abilities, things that guild wars doesn’t even have.

I’m saying that some players feel that other classes can put in less effort than they do, while also achieving similar results.

I’m making an observation of the ele playerbase primarily. If you don’t consider it an issue, then it obviously is not an issue for you and you should enjoy the class.

Burning is at the top of your death breakdown because it counts burning from all sources. DD can make up 70% of the damage taken, but if the single source of burning is higher than the 5-10+ sources of DD individually, then it will be first. I do think condition damage should be reduced or changed across the board. I don’t think condition builds should be viable as a pure damage alternative to power builds. Burning should have some sort of negative effect to it (Atherakhia had some interesting ones) and have reduced damage. Torment is nice in theory, but I don’t really think it punishes moving enough. Maybe remove the damage completely unless the target is moving, then increase the damage by 25-50% or something. Bleeding I think is okay in the current form, I had an idea where the damage increased per stack the higher the stack is (so 1 stack = 100 per tick, 2 = 240 per tick or 120 per stack and etc) but that seemed kind of gimmicky. Poison is great as it is. And while I realize this is becoming a bit of a tangent, I think condition damage should become something like “condition effect”. So the damage is the same, but lets say with 1000 condition effect (realistically it would be a percentage, so lets say 50%) poison goes from 33% heal nerf to 50%. Cripple could become a 75% snare, and so on. Immob or anything that goes above 100% might be a bit wonky though. It might just overlap into condition duration or have a secondary effect at that point.

All they need to do to fix warriors is to make Unsuspecting Foe a master trait. Nothing else. This forces hammer warriors to give up 30 points in Discipline, which will directly reduce the frequency of stuns substantially. However Unsuspecting Foe will remain viable as a trait and worth building around, and GS+Mace and Hammer+LB will still remain competitive. I’d also like them to increase the CD of Skullcrack by 5 seconds, or increase the cast time to 0.5 seconds, since that’s just not fun to play against. But that build isn’t exactly overpowered anyways, so it’s probably not necessary.

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

Does anyone else find it unreasonable that thieves were given not just one or two but three powerful abilities to disengage, while elementalists were given a total of zero?

Are we playing the same class?

Burning Retreat
Lightning Flash
Ride the Lightning

There’s your three. Depending on definitions, thief has more like 15 actually. I’d consider things like BP+HS or Blinding Powder to be possible disengages.

Bastien.1645:

Larynx.2453:

Ele is not very straight forward to play, and has one of the higher skill caps in the game. Conversely, they are also ranked medium-low as far as viability goes. This means that eles will have to play much better yet receive less rewards than someone else. For example, guardians and warriors. That is the largest issue, and probably will always be a fundamental issue with the class.

.

I don’t mean to discredit ele players opinions in any way but you can pretty much say that about any class in the game…imo that’s a Warrior design problem not an Ele problem.

No it’s not. Guardians can literally spam their abilities with a greatsword. Rangers autoattack 90% of the time. It’s not a warrior issue.

Warriors: Autoattack, hundred blade, whirlwind attack
Guardian: CD spam
Thief: Black powder + autoattack
Ranger: 11111111111211111111
Engineer: Grenade/bomb spam is adequate in most scenarios

I’ve never leveled a mesmer, but it’s definitely in a similar boat with ele. I leveled a necro over a year ago, but only to about 20 so I don’t think my opinion on that is very educated, but I think it’s not as bad as ele/mesmer, but it’s still much more involved than non-light armor classes.

edit: to be clear, I meant all of this for leveling purposes.

People like to pretend they’re victims and inflate their own personal opinions and skill issues into something much bigger than reality.

Ele is not very straight forward to play, and has one of the higher skill caps in the game. Conversely, they are also ranked medium-low as far as viability goes. This means that eles will have to play much better yet receive less rewards than someone else. For example, guardians and warriors. That is the largest issue, and probably will always be a fundamental issue with the class.

And no, nothing will be worse than leveling a mesmer. Eles are actually one of the best classes to level as. They have incredibly high AoE damage, incredible mobility, and with proper builds will also be very tanky. Again though, the leveling experience of an ele is probably 3-6 unique abilities for a normal encounter, whereas something like a warrior is 1-3.

So for example, on my ele I go pure berserker stats, with most points in earth, water or arcane. Signet of Fire and Signet of Earth are incredible for leveling. Fire is a passive 20% crit chance, and Earth is about 50-100% of your toughness. With the scepter earth (which is trivial to maintain 100% uptime) ability, your toughness will be as high as your power or higher. Again, with pure berserker. The best weapon combo is scepter/dagger or dagger/dagger. Focus is too defensive, and staff is just really unwieldy.

A typical fight in the world with 1-3 mobs (or 5+, really doesn’t matter for eles) will be something like this:

RtL to engage with scepter air 2, swap to fire, fire field, dragon tooth, phoenix triple hit, arcane wave (if I take it) and then fire grab. Most mobs will be dead. If they’re not, then dragon tooth again and swap back to air.

Or for fun, get 5-10 mobs, LOS to clump them. Get an ice bow, use #4. That’s one of the funniest things to see.

Warrior shield skills are fine and don’t need changing. They’re not overpowered or underpowered, but they are a strong choice (the best choice) in PvP. There’s literally nothing that deserves changing about the shield.

In PvE the issue is the metagame, not the weapon.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Knote.2904:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Lopez.7369:

Knote.2904:

Guys chill, things are still really up in the air with trait tooltips and slight conjure buffs, it’s gonna take a long time before you guys see Ele’s are actually extremely good now.

Just wait, in time you’ll understand Anet’s masterplan, they’re 10 steps ahead all of you.

To be fair, they were ahead of most players when it came to warriors. I still don’t know why this forum is generally so sure of itself when most people were mocking the Berserker Stance changes as not enough when they first came out.

Because people have short memories. There’s a 3-4 month time span between the forums asking for X, Anet implementing X, and then the forums asking for X to be removed.

Mind searching for some proof of that? I’d like to see which.

Ele sustain nerfs, necro burning, warrior condition resistance buffs, warrior sustain buffs, boon hate, off the top of my head. I guess I could look up some of the old threads, but I’m honestly not that dedicated.

“Spirits are useless” was a popular one after the spirit nerf near release. That’s a bit longer term though.

Something I’ve noticed for a while is that burst abilities have a 7.75 second recharge with 30 points in Discipline. That doesn’t make sense to me, since 30 points = 30% reduced CD. 30% of 10 seconds is 3 seconds, so shouldn’t the burst recharge be 7 seconds, instead of 7.75?

Is this a bug, or if it’s not can someone explain the strange math on it?

Romek.4201:

first they made necro a bunker counter but so stong he counters everthing

but they dont nerf it

they bring next counter for the necro but make it so stong that it counters everything, the warrior

whats next? another counter for the warrior which is than so op that it counters everything others too?

It’s called a mesmer.

Olba.5376:

runeblade.7514:

New Earthshaker- Does an 2 second AoE Daze + cripple.

To compensate for the nerf, Unsuspecting Foe gives 50% more crit to Stunned and Dazed foes.

Um… what?

Throw in Leg Specialist and you have Daze + Immobilize, which is almost as good as a stun. Not to mention that Leg Specialist with Opportunist would give Fury. And Pommel Bash would also have Daze.

You might want to explain exactly why you’re suggesting such a change.

1) Leg Specialist requires 10 points invested in Tactics, which means it’s impossible to get 30 in discipline

2) It’s a 1 second immob

3) Opportunist is 20 in Arms, which no one will invest in if they’re already going 10 tactics, since they’ll have to sacrifice the 20 major and 15 minor (-5s on weapon swap) or not take Cleansing Ire/Merciless Hammer… which is just dumb.

4) Yes, Pommel Bash is a daze. Congratulations.

This isn’t the best balance change, but I applaud the OP for only nerfing hammer specifically instead of everything and other builds.

Still, I think a better change would be to move Unsuspecting Foe to Master and move Opportunist to Adept. This does several things:

• A damage nerf to Greatsword/Mace builds, but without debilitating consequences
• Forces Hammer warriors to invest more traits, probably out of Discipline
• Keeps Unsuspecting Foe viable and worth making a build around
• People might actually use Opportunist in power builds
• No PvE nerfs

To illustrate what I mean with #2, the current build is something like 0/10/30/0/30. With this change, the build would change into 0/20/30/0/20. Hammer warriors would lose burst mastery, which is pretty major. I’m not 100% sure if this would effect bunker warriors with 30 tactics, but at the very least it nerfs their damage if they were using Unsuspecting Foe. They’d probably go 10 in discipline for -20% CD on signets or 10 in strength for the power to vitality conversion.

JonSnow.5610:

Watching warriors closely …

So are you watching closely how a warrior can immobilize someone for 20s
Or how a warrior can bunker a point by just standing on it and have infinite regen

Technically warriors have always had ridiculous immobilize uptime. Prior to the Leg Specialist nerf, they could trivially get 100% with almost zero changes to their build.

Why is it suddenly an issue now? Oh right, because it’s the “thing” to complain about.

• Skins that take about 2 days to a week in PvE to not take 2000-3000 hours of grinding in PvP.

• Gems would also be nice, or some sort of glory to gem converter. It seems unfair for people to spend real money for custom servers when PvE players can use gold.

• Some sort of WvWvW packet or starting kit that costs 50,000-100,000 glory and levels that character to 80 upon entering WvW, and gives it a BIS (exotic/ascended) gear set of whatever stats they choose, but only for WvWvW. I was going to exclude ascended, but 100,000 glory is a huge grind and comparable to the ascended mats anyways.

I think they should just remove WvWvW map completion, or make one borderland = all three for the purposes of it. Mapping out 3 identical zones is dumb.

Guys, you can make gold in sPvP now. A whole 20 silver an hour.

I have yet to see a warrior run Stomp in sPvP,let alone full Physical utilities. Do they use Rampage too? That’s +4 more “stuns” right?

GS + Sword/Warhorn is also incredibly mobile, and probably the first or second most mobile build in the game. It doesn’t mean it’s effective, or anyone actually runs it seriously.

What profession and build do you play?

It’s not unusual “in a few seconds” at all, depending on the build that is attacking you and your own build.

Berserker glass ele will probably be two or three shot by a berserker thief, for example. There are really no situations anymore where players are unable to react to burst though. Back at release it was pretty bad, and basically every single power glass build has been nerfed in burst capability.

Like as an example, backstab thieves. Besides the opener which is impossible to reliably avoid because you don’t have 360 degree vision, you had the aftercast of CnD and cast of BS to avoid the backstab, which is about 0.25 seconds + 0.25 seconds. Between human reaction time (200-300ms) and latency (50-150ms), people just had too much trouble avoiding it. Now, they’ve significantly nerfed the damage so even if you eat the full damage, it only does 50%-75% what it used to (and as a result no one runs it either).

So it’s basically a worse version of the old Frenzy. Nope…

Windler.4815:

For the love of Jedsus… A warrior that uses hammer and sw/shield has 6 stuns with zero diminishing returns.

Hammer + Sword/Shield has 6 stuns? Funny, because I count 2. Unless by sw you mean “Swace” as a corruption of “mace” in which case I count 3.

Windler.4815:

I don’t understand the constant love that warriors are getting. At least with other professions their variation in builds. With warriors, almost all have hammers and either sw/shield or longbow.

Warriors have some of the most build diversity of any profession.

Healing Signet alone is only something like 400 hps. 200 hps is a 50% increase, how is that insignificant?

Because of clipping issues and physics issues. That is the reason they have stated.

Cynz.9437:

Larynx.2453:

Cynz.9437:

tbh i don’t even mind hammer itself, i just hate how warriors as a package have no trade off like other classes have

regardless if they go bunker or zerker, they still do good dmg, have good survival, best mbolity in game and good CCs

They rely entirely on locking down an opponent. Someone who can avoid or counter the CC can easily deal with a warrior. Stability, especially 1v1, is almost a hard counter for warriors. Warriors have no means of boon stripping other than weapon sigils, most of their burst comes from Unsuspecting Foe, and a lot of their survivability comes from never having to play defensive due to the pressure from CCs.

Blind is also extremely effective versus hammer warriors, and due to the mechanics of Healing Signet poison is a good soft counter. They also can’t recover from burst at all, again due to Healing Signet.

It’s also just 100% wrong that warriors have the best mobility in the game. Thieves without question take that title.

I do agree that they as a whole are incredibly strong, not one individual thing, but they do have trade offs and counters.

i am not talking about hammer warriors only, i was talking about warriors in generall

um, warriors do have best moblity… given, thieves can use shortbow and shs but it would bring them only so far

I was speaking of warriors in general with the exception of condition builds and bunkers.

And no. It’s not even a question that is up for debate. Thieves have the best mobility in the game due the Z axis mobility. This is coming from someone who plays a thief.

Yasha.5963:

I does seem easy, but I still don’t understand why the f1 skill on warrior does not go on full cd if you miss, is there some reason why warrior f1 is the exception to the rule?

Burst abilities go on full cooldown if you miss.

Zeon.8239:

Not every class has access to low risk, easy to land CC. Even if every class did, that wouldn’t make it okay. Imagine if stability had no icon or any visual queue to go with it.

The examples are not equivalent.

Stability persists for the entire duration, and with a few exceptions must be actively used. Stability is a boon which may be corrupted or removed.

Shared Anguish is an effect with an internal cooldown, that redirects only one CC. It can not be removed.

But besides that, what class which relies on CC as an integral part of their gameplay mechanics does not have a low cost CC? I mean, the only builds I can think of other than warriors than even use CC to any similar degree are necros and possibly engineers. Even those two are stretching it.

Cynz.9437:

tbh i don’t even mind hammer itself, i just hate how warriors as a package have no trade off like other classes have

regardless if they go bunker or zerker, they still do good dmg, have good survival, best mbolity in game and good CCs

They rely entirely on locking down an opponent. Someone who can avoid or counter the CC can easily deal with a warrior. Stability, especially 1v1, is almost a hard counter for warriors. Warriors have no means of boon stripping other than weapon sigils, most of their burst comes from Unsuspecting Foe, and a lot of their survivability comes from never having to play defensive due to the pressure from CCs.

Blind is also extremely effective versus hammer warriors, and due to the mechanics of Healing Signet poison is a good soft counter. They also can’t recover from burst at all, again due to Healing Signet.

It’s also just 100% wrong that warriors have the best mobility in the game. Thieves without question take that title.

I do agree that they as a whole are incredibly strong, not one individual thing, but they do have trade offs and counters.

That is why you use a low risk CC on them to figure out if they have it.

Lets say you’re a warrior, since that’s the class that relies most on CC. What do you do? If you have a mace and want to set up a skullcrack, use pommel bash first to see if the ranger will be immune or if he’ll stealth. If you have a hammer? Well Staggering Blow can probably work for this. Shield Bash is pretty good too, if you have a shield.

Honestly it’s pretty standard practice to bait stunbreaks or anything that can ruin a CC chain before you actually use the CC. A lot of people panic and instantly react when they’re fighting a warrior, so they’ll use a stunbreak on a meaningless ability rather than the important ones. It’s best to assume initially that a player will counter your first skullcrack/backbreaker/earthshaker, even if you don’t know his build.

coglin.1867:

Always been that way. It simply depends on the nature of the CC.

For example, if a necro fears an enemy player or mob toward an engineer, and the engineer uses personal battering ram to launch the player/mob, then of course the fear becomes irrelevant at that point.

similarly if a necro fears a player/mob then a warrior uses the shout “fear me”, then to the best of my knowledge the fears stack in duration.

No, the fear removes the stun effect. Test it yourself. It has never behaved this way. Dazes and stuns would simply stack up the target with the longest one taking priority. (by stack, I don’t mean like conditions. I mean the effect for daze/stun would appear on the target)

Maybe I’m not clear enough, so let me give an example.

A ranger is stunned for 3.45 seconds by a skullcrack. 1 second into the skullcrack, so 2.45 seconds left, a thief uses head shot. The 0.25 second daze will overwrite and remove the 2.45 second stun. Once the 0.25 seconds is over, the target is no longer in a CC.

Prior to this update, the daze would have zero impact and the target would remain stunned.