^maybe then we should say which is the hardest viable build?That makes more sence since there is a huge number of possible build for each classes and i assure you they can become really really unneccesarily complicated.In that case warrior is not considered viable so it cant be said its hard.
Also consider that in a perfect world where everyone is as effective warriors will manage to mantain that power by using more simplistic ways of gameplay than other classes since thats how they are build.
So truth is that when warrior finally gets balanced it ll probably (not certain though) be on the “easy” sideWhy should we say which is the hardest build since its titled the hardest class, also Not viable= hard to play, i don`t get why it cant be said its hard when its not viable.
And as i said, more skills only make the job done easier, the less skill you get the harder it actually is. and That perfect world doesn`t exist and won’t exist.“Not viable=”not viable!! as in not used when max efficiency is need.. :P
Or else I can kitten my self playing without offhand and gear and say i created something hard. If you find me a warrior build that will honestly bring something new to the table that it cant be achieved at that degree with other classes AND the execution of this new thing is really hard mechanically i will say warrior is a very hard class!Also in the perfect world(that wont exist) the classes with more skills should be at equal power with the classes with less skills!
I dont know..i always thought that if you had to chaing 4-5 skills to achieve something that someone else can do with 1-2 then you are playing something harder unless that 1-2 skills are massively hard skillshots .
And if more skills give more power so “making the job easier” then we are starting to talk about imbalances
Not viable also = Hard. Sure you can play without offhand and armor, you will admit it been hard, won’t you and it is hard. and you didn’t create it, Everyone know that you can play without offhand and armor, but it will be super hard so nobody really use it, and since we are talking about fully geared class here(not some no gear bs), warrior would be the case.
No, more skills shouldnt be equal power to less skills, more skills would be better because it simply has more skills available for you in any situation, it allows you to do more precise actions and waste less WHICH is easier to play with then having less skills and not having them available when needed. Balance is more complex then " oh i can do like 7 buffs, remove 3 conditions, 2 second of invul and aoe damage with 5 conditions in one skill, but i only have one skill, while others have 10 separated skills(which added together will be equal to my one and only skill), so im obviously better"(not)
if you still can’t understand the concept, here, the guy with 10 skills will only need to press one skill which gives one aegis, your skill will be cut in half with only 7 buffs left on you.
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^maybe then we should say which is the hardest viable build?That makes more sence since there is a huge number of possible build for each classes and i assure you they can become really really unneccesarily complicated.In that case warrior is not considered viable so it cant be said its hard.
Also consider that in a perfect world where everyone is as effective warriors will manage to mantain that power by using more simplistic ways of gameplay than other classes since thats how they are build.
So truth is that when warrior finally gets balanced it ll probably (not certain though) be on the “easy” side
Why should we say which is the hardest build since its titled the hardest class, also Not viable= hard to play, i don`t get why it cant be said its hard when its not viable.
And as i said, more skills only make the job done easier, the less skill you get the harder it actually is. and That perfect world doesn`t exist and won’t exist.
I’ve tried a bit of pretty much everything and I can say without a doubt that Warrior tops the difficulty charts. It feels like a design from an early beta of the game that never saw a revamp. Yes, it’s simplistic, but being simple is a bad thing in PvP, it makes one predictable. The Warrior’s animations are very slow and dramatic, everyone and their mother knows what to expect after seeing one once or twice.
There’s really no escape hatches on the class. You can trait and use Melandru’s to make it a little more bearable but overall you get one Endure, one poor man’s condi cleanse and lastly your Shield #5 if you have it, and once those are spent it’s more or less good game. No real access to Vigor either so I hope you used your two dodges properly.
Well, you talk about the class being difficult, because it’s underpowered and I don’t think that’s wise, because balance can change very fast (okay, in ANets case definitely not very fast, but it can).
When I say that for example the Teldo-Engi is hard to play, I don’t say because it’s weak, but because it has many options that can be used in various different ways, it has some intricate tricks that require timing and is overall very flexible.
Add a bit of DPS on top of the War and/or a bit of sustain so it’s a decent class to play and it really becomes a very simple class, at least if you play the more Common builds. It has very limited Options and a straight-forward purpose: to spike sth. down and dmg downed Players.
No, you are not wise, Teldo-Engi is a build not a class, every class can have a difficult build to play, but we are talking about class here, and it`s not the build which determine how difficult it is to play, it`s the enemies. so if you are playing as the worst class, because it has nothing against some one who has everything, its the hardest thing to do, no doubt
no, its been like this for ages, P5+HS = stealth even hit, if you call yourself a thief shame on you for not knowing this and try to blame it on bugs. Or if you are not a thief, shame on you as well for talking bs about something you don’t know
yet if you can scout in WvW without being seen EVER for forever it is obviously a design flaw. Most likely it was overlooked and nobody brought attention to this build. Now that it was reported in maybe it will be fixed.
you can also scout in wvw without being seen ever for forever without perma stealth
oh and shame on you again, did you even try the technique to say that it can be used for scouting?
lol no. Your still in stealth when you do your next heartseeker. The revealed debuff doesn’t happen because your permanently in stealth off the black powder. You obviously haven’t tried it.
report as a bug then.
Because as far as I remember you get revealed for hitting an enemy. If revealed debuff does not happen you found a glitched build. Now should I send a report ticket, or should you?
Edit: sent in a report as a bug and included the linked video for evidence.
no, its been like this for ages, P5+HS = stealth even hit, if you call yourself a thief shame on you for not knowing this and try to blame it on bugs. Or if you are not a thief, shame on you as well for talking bs about something you don’t know
As a warrior I’d like to put my hands up and say it isn’t a difficult class. It is quite a simple class.
There is a HUGE difference between a difficult class and an unbalanced class.
Yes Warrior is hard to play with regard to beating other people, because it is so underpowered and sadly quite useless. However, the underlying mechanics are not difficult at all.
IMO you have to look for Engi and Ele for the difficulty factor. Far more skills compared to just the two weapons and utils that Warriors have.
not like more skills and utilies make the class more difficult to play, actually easier.
I don’t know why anyone would say anything other then warrior tbh.
a simple fact “the worst class in pvp” already made it the hardest class to play by default.
too bad, this game is too easy, and no matter how good you are, you aren’t getting anything out of it, except maybe PvP.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
The problem with that is against an enemy with half a brain, all they need to do is stand in your BP. Then you won’t be able to get more than 4s otherwise you will snag the enemy going through your BP, as he is standing in it.
even if you snag your enemy with HS you still get the stealth. no?
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
gs, long bow and use your skills and dem aoes, you win.
Yes, as a warrior i hate those downstats, our good utilities are too precious and have too long CD to waste them on some bs downstats, and some of them are just OP.
warrior(zerkers, obviously, in most tpvp, build might differ with a few different tweaks) definitely is one of the most skill required class. since they don’t get all the sustain from skills and traits. they need to know how to dodge, know to use the map, good positioning and use their one of the few utlities, conditions they have in the very right time to help them survive and make that burst(which is so obvious and easy to dodge) in the right time without the help of stealth and AI
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I don’t think warriors are hard to play at all, their class mechanic is extremely straight forward. They have some of the highest damage potential however that comes without much sustain. In hotjoin’s most seem to run zerk warriors which is ridiculous as they are basically free kills (this doesn’t translate them into a class that is hard to play, just silly decisions build wise). Many tpvp warriors who run more on the defensive side are actually quite competent, more so in team situations with access to cc skills.
But yes, necro has the highest skillcap and a great necro can kitten most.
Who the hell run defense war in tpvp, they are all zerker wars, wars in hotjoins are mostly condition bs and some of them maybe zerker.
you forgot guardian hell maybe even necro, who knows
you don’t kill a bunker guardian, they kill you with retal.
hell i couldn’t even kill it with a zerker guardian, one time i just stop attacking and we both staring at each other on a point.
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but wouldnt it bring down what warriors have now. i mean 12% damage constant and 9% crit chance constant is better for sure right, and by stack three times you mean the duration or the effect?
and also ever consider rework some weapon skills for better utilities for better sustain. or hell even replace banner or rework banner.
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OH Axe = worst weapon for warrior in this game (There is nothing worse atm).
sword?
Dragon ball is easily the most fun PvP experience I had in GW2. Reasons:
1) no stealth / teleport
2) no 10000 minions/clones/pets/turrets
3) no downed stateOh, how awesome GW2 would be if they implemented these points in normal PvP somehow…
there is stealth with no debuff…
so funny cuz i thought the samething. also with the skill mechanics. so everyone is equal, no balance bs
Imo i hope they should just get ride of the banners completely.
in my eyes, warrior rely only on his physic and combat technique instead of banner relying group buffer.
edit: plus on gw2 websites warrior description it says warriors rely on speed, strength and toughness, if we have to carry a banner everywhere it would just cut our speed and strength in half. banner suit more to guardians tbh
(edited by Lighter.5631)
Since when does warrior have troubles to survive? I missed a ninja nerf?
Been last man standing again today when we got wiped. It’s those people that build squishy warriors that can’t survive. But believe me a full bunker warrior outlasts a guardian in a zerg fight. A warrior is the main condition cleaner in a group.And yea for people wondering: traited warhorn >>>>>> shield, no doubt here.
i like to read your idiotic comment and your signature.
I like to see how you die in a zerg and come complaining here how squishy you are.
cool story bro, now do you want me to explain how much an idiot you are, or maybe you are smart enough to realize it yourself?
Maybe if you point me to the things you consider idiotic, I might explain myself and show you I am actually right.
I already gave you a hint, too bad i guess you aren’t that bright.
Since when does warrior have troubles to survive? I missed a ninja nerf?
Been last man standing again today when we got wiped. It’s those people that build squishy warriors that can’t survive. But believe me a full bunker warrior outlasts a guardian in a zerg fight. A warrior is the main condition cleaner in a group.And yea for people wondering: traited warhorn >>>>>> shield, no doubt here.
i like to read your idiotic comment and your signature.
I like to see how you die in a zerg and come complaining here how squishy you are.
cool story bro, now do you want me to explain how much an idiot you are, or maybe you are smart enough to realize it yourself?
Since when does warrior have troubles to survive? I missed a ninja nerf?
Been last man standing again today when we got wiped. It’s those people that build squishy warriors that can’t survive. But believe me a full bunker warrior outlasts a guardian in a zerg fight. A warrior is the main condition cleaner in a group.And yea for people wondering: traited warhorn >>>>>> shield, no doubt here.
i like to read your idiotic comment and your signature.
And we see two crippled warriors.
Dear Pug Players,
The problem isn’t the system, it’s the players.
of course you make a great point
it’s not anet’s fault for placing “join solo” button
it’s the fault of those who click it
/sarcasm
Your logic is flawed, if anet remove that join solo button, OP will start to post about how they can`t play solo because they can`t find a team instead of this. both nonsense btw
Greatsword is used for it’s superior mobility and ability to disengage if used properly.
If you would spend 5 seconds looking at a skill calculator or actually making a warrior you know in game you would see from our weapon skills, utility abilities, traits and downed state warriors are designed to do massive damage in a very short amount of time.
Our ability to last in battle is non existent against semi decent players. A lot of people think you can build a warrior for sustain or prolonged fights but then these people never play outside of pve or a massive zerg ball with 10 guardians supporting the 40 other players running around the map steamrolling one person at a time that doesn’t know how to dive through a zerg.
Btw I can’t tell if your trolling or just really ignorant?
Hammer+Sword/Warhorn has better mobility (savage leap isn’t affected by chill/cripple immobilize, and allows for some pretty nice shortcuts on maps like Kyhlo)
It doesn’t rely on stuff like Bull’s Rush because it is already build into one of the weaponset. Since Hammer also has a stun, not just a knockdown (ranged aswell, not affected by chill/cripple) you can use it with Unsuspecting Foe.
Using Valkyrie with 10 points into arms, you are at 79% critchance with Fury.
Using Zerger with 20 points into arms and fury is 64% critchance.A full zerger warrior (20/20/0/0/30) build does ~33% more damage (if you are lucky and crit every single strike, which took a while to test btw) with 100B than a 0/10/0/30/30 specced hammer warrior with shout heals and soldier runes.
So you can choose between 33% more damage or:
- Defensive Utilities for you and your group
- More CC remove
- More movement impairing effect remove
- Small additional small heals over time
- Perm Vigor
- Perm Swiftness
- Access to Protection
- Access to Regen
- Access to Aegis
- Way better CC
- More realiable damage (also inbetween stuns)
- Actually better mobility (earthshaker can also be used as a 600 range jump)
- 644 additional toughness
- Higher critchance when bursting
- Minor improvement in healing with Valkyries
- Good access to weakness (the reduced endurance regen helps alot)
- Blast finisher (best finisher ingame) on a pretty low cooldown
I kinda laugh at this standard Bull’s Rush, Frenzy, X warriors. They run out of stunbreaks so fast, and if they stunbreak with Frenzy, I crit them for like 5-6k with my autoattack.
Or if they really get me and hit a full 100B and not even get me below 50% health.
What a zerger warrior can kill is other zergers players, and not even any of them.
A valkyrie on the other hand deals so much damage over time, while surviving so much longer…
what the what? not like i haven’t play a unsuspecting foe hammer intelligence gs build, but what the what? wha….what? what what? wha? wa?
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ranger you win, king of PvE. Pet tank everything you just 12345.
good stuff for the new warriors.
Greatsword is used for it’s superior mobility and ability to disengage if used properly.
If you would spend 5 seconds looking at a skill calculator or actually making a warrior you know in game you would see from our weapon skills, utility abilities, traits and downed state warriors are designed to do massive damage in a very short amount of time.
Our ability to last in battle is non existent against semi decent players. A lot of people think you can build a warrior for sustain or prolonged fights but then these people never play outside of pve or a massive zerg ball with 10 guardians supporting the 40 other players running around the map steamrolling one person at a time that doesn’t know how to dive through a zerg.
Btw I can’t tell if your trolling or just really ignorant?
sigh
I play MaceWarhorn or AxeShield + Hammer using a Valkyrie or Soldiers’ spec, and I play perfectly fine in ranked tPvP. It isn’t extremely strong 1v1, unfortunately, but it’s very strong in teamfights and the MaceHorn combo offers absolutely unparalleled support while shutting down an opponent entirely.
Not trolling or ignorant, just very averse to glassy builds.
Warriors need a survivability buff, but we’re honestly not as hopelessly bad as our community portrays us. And due to the rampant trolling/doom&gloom/idiocy that pervades this forum (speaking almost entirely to XII here), the devs treat this forum as the community that cried wolf.
Oh very strong in team fights as a support while shutting down an opponent entirely?
you better run a guardian as a superb support while shutting down every enemy around you entirely.
let’s just face it, you will do better as a zerker who shoots aoes.
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You know why warrior don’t spec for bunker? because we would die in seconds because of agro anyway, High difficulty Pve wise, not even gonna mention anything PvP. except those easy mode monsters where every build goes. and actually as a warrior you have more chance to survive as a zerker because monsters won’t attack you.
King of PvE because CoF is all PvE about right now. once they put more complex AI and higher difficulty contents, warrior will get throw on the ground
Speak for yourself. I only farm CoF when I have absolutely nothing else to do, getting tokens from other dungeons takes priority (as well as from CoF too obviously.) All dungeons are made for a team of Zerkers to waltz all over it, the only variation is how much utility you’ll need (x guards + 1 mesmer to bring along.) All other professions may as well stay in PvP/WvW. It’s sad but true.
Also if they ever do jack up the difficulty you will still find Zerker Warriors, hell a CoF party could easily clear the revamped AC…
I don’t know but..in pvp underwater i actually feel op. Unlike on land i got tolls underwater
Spear – pull, gap closer, block and cc on spear
Harpoon – immo to set up a “killshot”Its makes me actually deadly to any other class. See what we lack on land weapon sets? If i want to set up a killshot i have to use that crappy bolas which miss 90% time.
I’ve noticed this, though I tend to avoid the water as though its the plague, as does everyone else.
Make a point? i don’t find any dungeon in the game difficult except maby arah 4 and fotm 40+.
^ Sorry I really couldn’t make sense of that…
We are kings of PvE and the laughing stock of PvP, in WvW we can survive through sheer numbers.
Why? Because braindead mobs will sit there and let you set off your optimal DPS cycle and we have enough basic evades to dodge the predictable attacks.
In PvP, and to a lesser extent WvW, every other class has the potential to simply out heal and kite you to death. Imagine a boss that ran away from you spamming cripple/chill/evades until you were dead? With our lousy condition removal and buggy gap closers, we are too easily shut down. Our big damage attacks are predictable and very easy to identify, and are thus very easily avoided by our opponents. The few opponents that are willing to fight a Warrior head on are bunkers that will easily take advantage of our sub-par healing and survivability, Guardians and Elementalists are notorious for this, they will eat everything you have to throw at them, heal themselves, while essentially dealing the same damage percentage to you, but with no means of healing yourself….
King of PvE because CoF is all PvE about right now. once they put more complex AI and higher difficulty contents, warrior will get throw on the ground
that`s one god like rush
Warrior is the most boring repetitive class you will ever play. Because you are forced to use one build. and the class sucks at high difficulty contents.
Atm GW2 is not rewarding in terms of time put into the game or the amount skill/effort you put into it, just so the casual player can have his day in the sun and achieve just as much as people more dedicated to the game
Nope. What the game is telling you is that being “dedicated” – aka grinding mindlessly through easy and repetitive content for 10 hours per day every day for months, which is what people call “hardcore” these days – does not deserve a reward.
And it’s right.
That’s how real life works, too. A Chinese factory worker who works 12 hours per day 6 days a week is a lot like the so-called “dedicated” players, doing something simple and mindless over and over. Our factory worker does not get paid more than Steve Jobs did, though, despite how he worked less hours per week.
Face it – the difference is that other MMOs are trying to cater to those who are willing to spend time (which means, who are willing to pay monthly fees for longer), and so call those players the “hardcore”, “dedicated” and so on. On a game like GW2, in which there is no monthly fees, players who waste a lot of time with mindless and easy content are just people who waste a lot of time, nothing more.
brb making 50s per hour in the hardest dungeon in gw2
or you can always play a warrior with all those fancy effects, with way more weapon sets and definitly don’t need an animation rework as much as an ele needs it
end sarcasm.
stand down. 15char
agreed. need fix
Here let me enlighten you. Unblockables, meaning its a counter to block which if you use earthshaker hit 3 people, 3 people`s block got unblocked.
and why blind will make you miss those 3 people? because YOU are the only who got blinded when YOU are using that skill.
want an example?
there’s 5 targets all lined up. and you have a gun with one bullet, normally it would hit pierce one target, but with an improved bullet you can pierce up to 3 targets, and when you are blinded and missed your shot ofc you gonna miss all 5 targets.
My spam is strong with the force probably why I’m so unbeatable…..
no your spam is strong because your class is carrying you. try spam as a warrior, you die in seconds.
It’s hardly enduring pain if you are downed from condition damage while it is active. Endure Pain should mean to block ALL damage, you are ENDURING THE PAIN, and conditions are indeed pain. Conditions should still be applied but no damage should be taken from them until EP has run out, other effects of conditions should still work as they don’t really count as ‘pain’ per say, such as cripple/chill/immobilise/reduced healing from poison/etc. And considering the state of our condition removal and the state of warriors in general, I think we can have this one….
That logic does not work well.
Enduring the Pain does not prevent the damage done to that body.
Here is a video how endure pain would work logical wise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zKhEw7nD9C4#t=62s xD
Sure, Endure pain does not prevent the conditions done to that body, but it should endure it all during its activation. meaning, conditions take no effect even applied, start taking effect after Endure pain goes off.
Thank you for not contributing to the conversation.
it’s ok to feel embarrassed. just be careful next time.
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sorry but we don’t need another thread for that.
What is implied when someone says “I want raids” is “I want one more WoW clone, with content made to a small minority of players who want to join a 40 people instance with tanks and DPS and healers, in which the goal is to defeat a boss to roll under a 0,001% chance that someone in our group will get the piece of loot we are all looking for; we want to get that loot as fast as possible, but of course this kind of content needs to be gated so it’s only available once per week”.
is that Fotm and world event you talking about? except its daily and the fact that world event is one of the worst raid kind. i guess this game is already a wow clone according to what you said. oh and that 0.001% chance of getting an item we all looking for, is that precursor i sense?
(edited by Lighter.5631)
Who cares about your spvp matches/balancing based on artificially valued behavior like holding a point (which causes bunkers to become crucial whereas in the other formats they are not)?
The fact is, the majority of the people in this game are not dedicated spvpers. The majority of warriors in this game are playing a class that’s top tier in the formats they favor.
Meanwhile, when it comes to rangers, the class is garbage tier in PvE, and only particularly good for roaming with BM/trapper specs in WvW. It’s only great in spvp, and even in spvp it’s not a top tier class like ele/engineer/guardian/mesmer.
Hey, how about you read through the comments before posting some thing that single minded. There’s something called PvP only changes, if you ever know what that is or you are just not smart enough to understand it’s concept.
You are one of those people who benefit the most from this game not having DPS meters, because it seems like math and observation isn’t your forte.
Rapid Fire does less damage than using your longbow auto at optimal range.
Super low cooldowns are not unique to a ranger. Warrior 100b is a 6 sec cd and arguably the strongest non-autoattack weaponskill in the game.
Just stop.
only single minded idiots would take that 100b as a standing argument lolol
People target warriors first because they all run glass canon and not killing your enemies damage is a bad idea. Every other class that doesn’t have stealth has been forced into tanky DPS builds (i.e. valk “DPS” ele shares 50 of 70 trait points with a bunker build and has nearly the same toughness). The sooner warriors accept this reality and start wearing valk/soldier, the better off they’re going to be. Zerker doesn’t work without stealth. Until then, expect for people to try and kill you before you build up enough adrenaline to land eviscerate for 10k+.
did your mom ever tell that if you don’t know about a thing, don’t talk like you know it.
What you want to make regen better because it has 1 counter? good story.
way to go for the rangers. let’s see them regen back full health in 1 sec! totally need a buff.
hammer generally should be eaiser to counter thieves because of aoes
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