No, it’s not needed.
Isn’t going to happen, until Anet actually wants to balance their game for each mode, thieves will almost always be outclassed in PvE. His trickery and burst is way more effective against players than against champions and bosses, since they are balanced together, you have to always expect PvE to suffer.
To be fair, the initiative change will actually help PvE, but that’s probably just a coincidence.
Thief is not outclassed in pve. It has the highest single target dps in the game and is so very viable in dungeons.
This is totally skewed. Of course heavies are more suited to zerg combat and that’s the way it should be, thus you see more of them in WvW. But tell me, how many guardians can beat a Mesmer 1v1? 1 out of every 10, maybe, if we’re generous? How many Guardians do you see doing really successful roaming like thieves/memsers? Warrior is, at best, decent in roaming/duels, not OP like Mesmer for example. Guardian is very, very bad at 1v1 and pretty bad at small scale roaming. It balances itself out.
For the record, my sig was too long so I had to cut it, but I have an 80 Necro and an 80 Mesmer as well, so I’m not just in it for the guardians.
Are you joking? Warrior is one of the best roaming and dueling classes in the game right now. Why do you think they’re getting nerfed come Dec 10th?
9/10 wars lose in duels against Mesmers, for example. Mesmer is the best dueling class in the game. Notice I never said wars are not good at duels/roaming, but they’re not OP. Thieves/Mesmers are still the top roaming classes, and Mesmers/Necros are still better in 1v1s in general. Wars are viable in duels, and viable in roaming (Guard only if very good and specced properly for the role) but they’re not OP in that aspect.
You said they were just decent, and they are way more than just decent. They’re very op in duels. Have you even played a good stun war? They are impossible to kill no matter how much stun break or stability you can bring. Same goes for mesmers, except the difference is mesmer takes twice as much skill to master than warrior.
Lol, what? Impossible to kill a good stun war? Are you joking?
There’s more to PvP than just being unkillable, any class can do that. We’re talking about classes that overpower one another. A stun war that can’t be killed, cannot overpower a Mesmer that is good, at all. The Mesmer can easily kite, flee from, or tank him even (f4 shatter, skill 2 sword, etc…). Remember, ether feast is a very strong heal for 20 second CD, and we have many built in stun breakers (e.g. sword 3), blocks (scepter 2, sword 4), insane amounts of dodges and either high condi damage or for power high sustained damage from sword.
Remember, stun wars hit slowly and so blocks/aegis/dodges/blinds effect them negatively far more than your average class.
The warrior can easily out run the mesmer too, though. The overpowered mesmer dueling build is very immobile and can’t chase very well because it’s damage comes from clone deaths and phantasms.
sign that balance in this game is a joke.
logic dictates that if youre unkillable you must have no damage, and if you have ultraelectromagnetic damage you must die in 2 hits. and if you are in between that means you cant kill the unkillable, you die to a good glass cannon and your damage sucks compared to the glass cannon. idiots guide to balancing classes.
I think that almost all of the complaints about ‘bunkers’ doing too much damage are in fact complaints about ‘balanced’ builds doing too much damage. IE, offensive utilities, weapons & traits, but defensive stats.
You are just redefining the “high damage bunker builds” as “balanced builds”.
If you care about losing towers / keeps / whatever in WvW, you are new to the game and don’t really understand WvW. Get your boots wet, rookie.
Since the 3 day head start I spent around £2000 ( yes three zeros) if not more (need to put all Paypal transactions together) , and this is how they repay us (the paying customers), probably will not make a difference for them if a customer like me leaves the game, but hopefully i will not be the only one.
Sorry but I don’t see a problem? They said they would offer full refund if the new art wouldn’t please.
My personal opinion is of course that it should be possible to mix armors anyway players want. Some medium armors would combo really nicely with certain heavy sets, etc… Anyway, they are redesigning the armor and offering a refund for those who don’t like the new skin. I can’t see any particularly ill behavior here.
ps. Check out my post history – i’m not a fanboy.
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I think a few ambient here and there would help a ton for us Necromancers. I find myself low on life force every time I duel and am forced to ask enemy players for some.
That’s my only complaint about it also, pretty hard to win fights with 0 life force.
Select minion to an utility skill. Summon it. Select some other skill to that slot. Repeat with other minion skills and profit.
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I dislike rally and the whole idea of downed state in pvp.
Basically it just gives whoever already outnumbers more of an advantage. If you’re fighting 1 on 3 and down one, without an invuln you are not getting that kill which you VERY MUCH SO DESERVE AND EARNED.
gw2 logic.
Food i don’t mind because it gives me at least something to spend money on and all the foods add alittle bit of diversity to a fight. Although there really only are 3-4 popular ones
you shouldn’t be winning a 1 v 3 in the first place, theres nothing wrong here.
the downed state is there because of insta gib classes, if there was no down state they would would be god like instead of just demi god like.
You have zero clue about the game. Amazing that in this bunker meta someone thinks an instagib build is a demi god…
Auto attack only
Heavy armor > medium > light
Warrior is heavy, so it’s perfectly normal…
Now…. About skills…. No skill in the game could have more dmg than a backstab….
Thief is actually on the lower-end of the burst spectrum.
Well Jumper… Yes thats an fact for SPVP But soon as you think WvWvW It becomes competly diffrent a 0 30 30 10 0 spec can do Cloak->backstab->HS burst if he got bloodlust and guardkiller. and his foe is downed :P so they actually got very high burst for wvwvw together with quite good survablity. But yes for spvp they are very low on almost everything. XD
You probably think CND BS HS is really high dps right? its actually really low. what it IS though…..is high Dmg per hit but NOT high DPS.
Ok so lets look at why ok?
CnD- roughly 50% success rate
BS – Roughly 50% success rate
HS- roughly 60% success ratebetween blinds – blocks – aegis – invuln – NPC mobs – dodges – etc etc these skills miss as much as they hit, even for experienced players i wouldnt give them much more that +10% average (yes there are some fights that are higher but OVERALL its bout here)
Now lets look at other factors that mitigate our DPS. or burst is ALL withing 130 range which means we need to be kitten ed close to lay it out. Not only that its all .5 second or more activation times plus another .5 to recast so about 1 second MINIMUM between hits at best scenario….. very much unlike whirl attack or 100 blades etc.
What else to mention….oh yeah the obvious…. STEALTH! all that time in stealth wandering around for positioning and setting up for that all too famous backstab. then theres the times we enter stealth and dont get the right positioning and have to reenter stealth to try again.
See….thething is…for thief to get good DPS or even good survivability….it has to be connected to “circumstantial” requisites and factors. Yes other classes have some too but none as specific as ours and also as double edged (taking damage in stealth but dealing 0 back). our overall DPS is very low compared to most classes. and our burst is too….too much prereq for it to be solid burst.
These precents are competly wrong and out of the blue you wont see it comin before you’re dead ever heard of precast + steal? 50 % 40 % 60 &%? id rather say somthing like 95 % by a good player. And when it comes for substained dps AA fills that gap and makes D/D highest single target wep in the game.
btw STEAL, and that our damage is wrong is completly lack of knowledge dude we got HIGEHST single target damage in the game when buffed and we got very quick attacks in our burst so makes for good burst in wvwvw. around 1 second burst
the problem is you assume that that good player is fighting noobs, where good players in fact can completely shut down good thief… so i do think 50% isn’t far off from the truth
Whahahaha good luck shutting down properly played s/d. These posts makes me wonder if half of the people even play this game.
Sure, most of the thief builds out there are bad. D/D can never compete with properly played fotm warriors, ofc not. But that’s a very universal problem in this game that’s not restricted to thieves alone: there are very few viable builds.
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WTF you loose on base numbers alone
Greatsword 1,045 – 1,155
Dagger 970 – 1,030
and warrior is not overpowered it is balanced around its job as a front line bruiser wade into combat take hits and give them.
Thief is a Rouge class your supposed to find /Week/ targets and pick them off not go toe to toe with an Abrams tank and expect to win.
100 on weapon dmg is not nearly enough to even matter in this. 50% hp left vs 0% (thief).
Im just saying that it should be closer. it should come down to skill and not who has the better base class.
TO WHOMEVER SAYS THIS IS FAIR/MAKES SENSE
by saying this you are saying
STEALTH is the trade off for having the worst HP,toughness,armor, no invulnerable no blocks no aegis no stability no protection and less total attacks per minute (base).
at this point im ready to ask to lose stealth in trade off for the things we dont have. we would be so OP with allthose things plus normal skills
…….. stealth is so NOT preferable to all those losses.
Why don’t you just play some other class then? Thief is a thief and relies on stealth, deal with it or roll a fotm class.
Elona usually have treb in their citadel. Anet could ban everybody who used supply.
The problem is that the banhammer cant drop if its Anets fault that trebs can be placed in spawn. Its not a hack, simply a flaw in the game
Do you know what a exploit is? Plenty of people get banned for exploits.
It’s not really an exploit if it’s something that everyone has known and used since day #1. It might not be intended, but it would make little sense to penalize some small group for abusing something that everyone has abused over many months…
And that JP, it is probably intended. It is an interesting place for siege, but in practice it’s too much effort to build it up there given how easily it can still be countered.
With the rather long queues that there seems to be nowdays, it is very frustrating that you have to sit on your computer and wait for the queue bar to appear.
Would it be possible to make it so that the game plays some sort of warning sound when the queue pops? This would allow me to watch TV while waiting in the queue. Or how about make the games taskbar button flash if it’s minimized and the queue pops? This would allow me to watch say gw2pvp tv from twitch while waiting in the queue.
ps. Yes, I can go and do something else in the game during the queue. But this isn’t a very good solution because I can’t go do anything that I’m not ready to leave the very moment the queue happens to pop.
This makes no sense. Of course warrior wins this kind of “hit trading competition” because they have high armor and base health.
And yes, warrior is overpowered and they do have too much everything. That’s not news.
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Anet claims they can’t remove the AOE cap for tech reasons (even though DAOC, a 10 year-old game, handled more players per chunk and it did it without any AOE cap…).
DAOC is a old game with worst graphic effects. Notice how Anet had to instance every zone in game instead of making a few HUGE continuous map like in WOW. To get better graphic you need to have limitations in other places.
It has nothing to do with graphics.
Retarted, pure condition builds should be unviable anyway. If this change achieves that, I’m happy.
would you mind listing some of those numerous “counters” to stealth?
I didn’t say counters, I said counterplay.
Anyway assume you know most of this, but since you’re asking I’ll go over some ways to counterplay stealth (as it’s a backstab thread, I’ll be using that as an example).-Move around. It makes it take much longer to reach your back if you’re constantly moving and turning than if you just hold onto your S key. (The amount of people that think that will work is ridiculous)
-Judge how long it will take for the thief to reach your back, then dodge when you think he’ll be about to hit you. Eura went over what to do if they try to teleport-stab you.
-When you block, evade or invuln a backstab attempt the game will tell you that you did so and from what direction the attack came from. From there you can retaliate while they’re still in stealth, turn to face them (backstab from the front does bad damage) or use that information to try to kite them.
-Marks/ traps will still trigger if a stealthed enemy walks over them. Don’t just stand on a trap and expect it to make you immune to backstab, instead be aware of them and try to face that way and attack.
-Interrupt blackpowder>heartseeker
-Dodge cloak and dagger, even if you see them cast it out of range dodge anyway as they are likely to teleport to you. At that point they’ve wasted 6 initiative and steal.
-Melee auto attack chains will cycle through if you hit a stealthed enemy. It’s not always the best technique to try but it is useful in some situations.
-If there’s another enemy to hit and you have bouncing attacks (like dancing dagger, mirror blade or ricochet) the projectiles should still bounce to stealthed enemies.
-If you have a ranged projectile based weapon you can use your mouse to aim manually. You can tell if you hit a stealthed enemy if the projectile stops in mid-air. This is mostly impractical but this can still be useful if you have no better abilities and if there aren’t particle effects filling your screen.
-Move close to clones/ minions/ spirits. Sometimes a backstab will miss and hit these by accident revealing the thief and giving opportunity to attack.
That turned more into advice than a list of ways to counterplay, but that should help out anyone that thinks backstab is op (and therefore needs to l2p).
Some high damage mug-bs combos are op against low armored targets though. There is little to nothing these non-tanky builds can do against a instagib mug combo coming right out of the blue.This is bad for the game as it just promotes these cheesy, overplayed bunker builds over skillful glass cannon builds.
Of course, this is really just an issue in WvW where it isn’t important to contest points and where it is quite easy to achieve 18k+ backstabs on lightly armored targets. Short of running a fotm tank build, there is absolutely zero counterplay against this type thief builds. This is the reason why thieves get so much hate.
ps. this is coming from a thief player running such a build. (30/30/10/0/0)
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They realised they first have to adress balance issues and new game modes before releasing new skills and traits.
And then they invented dhoomsfire.
The thoughness sigil isn’t a problem since you generally don’t want to spend all your stat points into thoughness anyway. This sigil simply allows you to get your desired amount of thoughness (and losing power in return) without buying new armor.
If you are immo, you should only be safe if you are blocking, with invul, distorcion or skills that give you surviability without moving. Ports shouldn’t also be alowed.
Why?
Teleportation is differend, more powerful effect than the speed boost of movement skills. This is why the teleport skills generally pack less extra effects than the corresponding movement skills. For example, lighting flash gives teleport and deals some damage, while bullrush deals damage, causes knockdown and is a combo finisher. Blink in turn gives teleport and stun break plus has shorter cool down, but deals no damage nor causes knockdown.
Another example would be say whirlwind attack and phase retreat:
phase retreat: 10s cooldown, combo finisher, teleport, creates clone.
whirlwind attack: 10s cooldown, combo finisher, movement boost, grants evasion, deals massive aoe damage.
See?
It’s mostly the power of them with short CDs. 35-48 second full condition wipe, full boon gain (one being stability) is undoubtedly too powerful compared to other runes, no less.
Also, if you don’t see anything wrong with “Mass Invisibility” stomps:
- Invisible
-Protection+Regen
- StabilityThere’s literally 0 counter to that. You can’t boon rip, you can’t aoe cc (or really even aoe damage it in time). So yeah, I mean… I think it’s an issue, and you’re right partially because of the access to boons. Take stability from Lyssa and it’s fine. (Or moreso fine).
You can still counter it by stealthing the downed ally, but aye, lyssa runes give too much everything.
Not much, considering I was able to hit high stacks frequently without even equipping weapons…
OK. I’ll just respond to the people who understand what Perplexity runes actually do in real-world situations, then.
You might want to check out his signature. Just saying.
30 seconds makes it useless. literally…well almsot literally. 30 secs for 2 stacks? its gotta be atleast 8 stacks if 30 secs. i could live with that.
Is mesmer f2 also useless? I mean, it’s also on 30 seocond cool down, and the confusion lasts 3 seconds.
Yeah, condinuking shouldn’t have any counter. /sarcasm
A rune set should never be a replacement for a counter-build. If you’re saying that Lyssa allows you to run a build that is oblivious to condition professions because it acts as a condition counter, then it definitely is overpowered.
+1 for logic.
Of course it’s not… There is a reason almost everyone runs Lyssa.
Guild Wars 1 was at least this [———————————————————————————————————————] much better.
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I have never seen a RPG game where daggers were not able to 1shot people. If you dont want to rcv a big backstab, better to put some defense boy !
Best. Argument. Ever.
…
Not.
Anyway, thief can hardly do that much damage in spvp. I run full burst thief quite often just to troll, but I have only so much success because most players are bunkers nowdays. And that crit isn’t so satisfying anymore because when it happens, you know it only worked because your opponent didn’t run a proper meta build, and was just someone trying to have fun on subpar build…
It is actually both of the skills, sword MH #2 and #3
Serpants Strike These skills in theory cause the player to evade through movement, if they are immobilized there is no movement..
This video shows exactly how it works, It is an evade via movement. If you are immobilized, that little roll wont do anything to stop attacks hitting you in theory of course.. This is not matrix where you can dodge everything slow mo whilst standing still.
If you’re taking that road, then any attack featuring an impulse animation while immob should inflict 0 damage.
Aye, and shield stance/riposite/etc shouldn’t block attacks coming from behind. One has to separate game rules from the graphical representation of skills.
after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.
so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.
discuss.
Ever done pve? Because in Pve, there is the so called “3 second rule”, that is, when a boss starts charging an attack, dodge roll in about 3 seconds. Now the funny thing is that the 3 second rule also applies to c&d spam. When the thief tries to chain c&d, count to 3, dodge, and it is quaranteed that the c&d chaining pauses.
Unlike against d/p perma stealth nonsense, there IS valid counter play against d/d type thief builds. Hell, send me a PM in game anytime and I’ll show you the basic tricks.
edit: I see you are a ranger. That complicates things a little due to the crappy AI. So do not only dodge, but also swap pet when the thief is about to use c&d (~three seconds after his last c&d.). Since you apparently use short bow, you shouldn’t run out of evades: quick shot is on fairly short cl. If you have a wolf, try to use the fear skill at this moment.
If there are npc mobs nearby and the thief chains stealth from them, you can use your axe #1 to attack the thief while he is in stealth: attack a mob and the axes should bounce to the thief. While this doesn’t deal that much damage, it still puts up some pressure.
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Arguing about cooldowns is a bad argument. CC cooldowns need to be shorter than stunbreak cooldowns if you actually want Offense to be stronger than Defense, which you tend to have in a game to make sure it ends.
CC is both defense and offense though. CC is in fact one of the main defences of any stunspam warrior or melee train.
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Why in this game there is no DR on CCs?
1st stun = full duration
2nd stun = half duration
3rd stun = immunePerma CC is not funny.
This. Or maybe
1st stun = full duration
2nd stun = daze
Or perhaps the good system from guild wars1 where you are immune to stuns when already stunned. In any case, something has to be done about this abuse of the broken CC system.
I’m going to lock this post for 2 reasons. 1) This topic has been discussed ad infinitum and we have given our reasons for the system as it currently exists.
Where exactly, have you given this, Devon?
If I missed this I apologist for it in advance. I simply can’t find it. But I am very keen on the exact reasons behind this, simply as I am trying to understand it… as I am sure others are as well.
I am sure you are as frustrated with this recurring subject as we are with what seems to be a completely illogical decision. Please help us understand.
You expect the devs to actually have reasoning behind their decisions? Dude…
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Or you can just press that skill: “takes out immobilize”
Not everyone is (yet) a warrior with “breaks immobilize” in half of their skills.
I think everyone have seen this: thief(or ranger) was immobilized and still managed to evade all damage with their weapon skills. It seems like bad design because there is no solid counters to such evade spam for now.
So, question is simple.
Is it intended and are devs going to change this?PS I’m not really interested in comments like “it will nerf <insert class name> to the ground” or " it’s l2p issue".
It is probably intented. Basic combos such as ileap => blurred frenzy & mw or inflitrators strike => pistol whip would be too powerful if you couldn’t use evade skills to avoid some of their effect.
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is this…. really not a troll post?
Of course it’s a troll post… Or it could truly be some rookie warrior QQ:ing that he can’t face roll everything, but I doubt that. His suggestion is too absurd.
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Best counter against stealth stomps = don’t get downed in the first place.
So recently made a post about ranger, and many people said with my play style i should go eather Warrior or Theif.
Been trying warrior and I like it a lot more than theif so far.
But all I hear is that Warrior is horrible for pvp and you will just lose any fight against some one who is even semi compitent at the game.
Is this true? I really enjoye the PvP aspect of these kind of games and I dont wanna level my Warrior to 80 and do everything I need to do just to be pretty much stuck doing nothing but PvE cuz its all my class is good at.
I dont understand a lot of it cuz half the post say how Warrior is just op, and then the other half say that Warrior is just awful and only no brain kids play them.
Why is there so much hate towards the Warrior class? Also are they good at PvP? I dont need them to be an easy mode class for PvP but if i go through all the work just to find out im gonna lose no matter how good and how knowledgable i am of the classes and my class, just becuase im not a theif or a condi necromancer well then whats the point in the end?
What is it with posts like these? Warrior IS the easy mode class at the moment. S/d thief and condimancer, while both strong, aren’t still even close to warriors…
And those who say warriors aren’t op must not play other classes(much).
Fixed it for ya.
If you are not here to help please do not post thanks.
Says the troll.
If against all odds you feel weak on your warrior, then it is because you don’t have a good build. Search for a proper meta build and you should do fine.
And those who say warriors aren’t op must not play other classes(much).
Fixed it for ya.
Omg this guy literally clicks to dodge. Now I’ve seen everything.
6:45.
I think he needs to spam 1 a little faster, but hes doing okish.
Did you ever consider they are trying to body block you on purpose and you failed to work around it, and that its not just random bad luck?
Well when it comes to mesmers and their clone generator, yeah, good ones really try to body block you, but single target attack mechanics is what makes it very easy to pull off. As the person above said, we might aswell have a crosshair targeting like in TERA for example, cause target locking has little to no use in meele with current mechanics.
And speaking of backstabs hitting targets that should be completely out of the way but apparently they arent – happens all the time, at least when fighting mesmers. Never had much trouble with necromancers and their zombie army soaking up backstabs, but didnt see many necros running around with minions in www.
I have done countless mesmer vs. thief duels, playing both as the thief and as the mesmer, as those are my main characters. The targeting mechanism is fine in this aspect. If you have the mesmer targeted, you are close enough and the mesmer does not use an ability that makes him avoid the backstab, the backstab will land on the mesmer no matter how many clones he has nearby. If he does avoid the backstab, then the backstab lands on a nearby clone should one be nearby, and this is fine. You should receive some sort of a penalty from being a scrub enough to attempt a backstab through an evasion skill.
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No. If I want MOBA, I go play MOBA. There is already plenty of them.
I think this is more a WvW issue. In spvp you don’t want to waste time perma stealthing and waiting for the right moment to strike. The damage is also much lower. In WvW however, you can sit in stealths with no consequences and as long as you please, then immeditately when the stealth wores off, swap to d/d and strike with the usual 20k+ mug, c&d and bs combo.
We know Anet doesnt care about balance outside sPvP, therefore you see classes such as ele which were relatively fine in PvE agetting gutted or perplexity runes or warriors or thieves……
Unfortunate but true. Given that WvW is literally 10 times more popular than the flopped spvp, it’s strange that they can’t change their balance philosophies and priorities. I suspect it may be the so called sunk cost fallacy going on here, i.e. where you can’t let an idea go because so much resources have already been burned on it.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/at/sunk_cost_fallacy/
10k backstabs, kitten you must be glassy as hell
Nah, he just isn’t a bunker.
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right, ping pong matches in the middle of a soccer game ……
-sips coffee through nose and stuffs a donut in his ear-
Makes perfekt sense!
Your analogy makes perfekt sense! if anything ever has. WAit..
I’ve been playing WvW for about a month or so, and the other night I came on two players fighting and jumped in. The FA player /say to me that he was in a duel, but frankly by then it was too late. Never had someone say that to me in the moment before, but as I’ve been reading this forum more I see lots of people seem to seek out pure 1v1 matchups. Now I wonder if I am often unwittingly being a kitten and PO my own team by interrupting duels.
There’s no perfect answer here, but what’s best etiquette? Assume every 1v1 I come across is a duel and doesn’t want help? Assume it does? Not talking about “fight club” behind the windmill, talking about coming across 1v1 (or 2v1 or any small fight for that matter) in the rest of the world. Thanks
Well sometimes it’s nice if you don’t jump into a fair 1v1 even if it was not a setup duel. Pulling 2v1 against two decent players is almost impossible in this game and so chances are that your intervention just trivializes the whole fight. Not very exciting.
It’s still allright to res / intervene if your ally goes downed during the fight, I believe.
Ruining a duel nets your server up to three points in a matter of seconds.
a.) three points matter a lot when matchups have point differences that go up to 100k.
b) winner of a matchup matters a lot.
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I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?
Yeah, do the same copy paste quests over and over again! Fun!
Basically it’s because it would trivialize many of the encounters in the game.
They are all trivial to begin with.
Harpy Fractal would instantly become like 5 minutes faster (probably more for PUGs).
Yeah, people would abuse the hell out of this. I know I would.
Aye and it would also become a fun fractal! Awww, no way this can be allowed to happen!
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Tbh I don’t think this is a big deal at all. It has next to zero effect on actual wvw.