Guild Wars 2

teg.1340:

Spaming heals in water? Jumping while spaming skills? Ehm, lol. Thats not possible. Ele doesnt have spamable skills besides anytimers which are completely garbage. All skills are on huge cooldowns.

Sure, you can just waste all your powerful skills like earthquake, backdraft, churning earth and cleansing wave, then RTL away. But you’ll kill exactly nothing.

llolollolol. You just don’t know how to play D/D ele if you don’t spam. Seriously, go watch that video from that Aurora Glade ele Riez.
There:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0EbWDWcQo&feature=player_embedded

My brother plays an ele too and he spams like hell as well because “it’s effective” and because “I can”. (Poor keyboard!)

Ending argument, both sides in a fight between the two classes have their strengths and weakness, its all about the player behind them that makes the major difference. You could tell a thief player to use venoms but wouldnt mean that they know how to use them against an experienced d/d ele.

Dagger dagger ele is the spammer class #1. You just spam skills till no tomorrow… If you screw up, switch to water, and again spam, spam spam those heals and remember to jump while doing it!
Thief at least needs precision since you are quite exposed if you miss your cloack and dagger.
Sorta like the abilities noob tube and martyr in a certain famous arcade shooter: with the noob tube you at least have to aim.

The thing is, condition damage builds are still quite viable for upscales. This is because condition damage does not depend on your weapon power, meaning an upscale could still deal 120+ damage per bleeding stack. It wasn’t that hard to pull 2v1’s on my upscaled p/d thief, for example. Some lvl 80 champion slayers also bited the dust. However, making a damage build is not really possible.

Moxic.5892:

I have to say, the fact that anet is removing these items
Just because all players aren’t aware of all the facets of a game doesn’t mean you should neuter the game to satisfy the lazy, uncurious and unskilled – the lowest common denominator of players who want to autoattack to win. Consumables add an unpredictable element that keeps things interesting. Zerging back and forth could use a little spice in my opinion. This sort of knee-jerk reaction to consumables will just make people more secretive about their tactics in the game, and not promote an open and honest dialogue about the state of WvW between devs and players.

This this, so this. But “we don’t want wvw to be fun or interesting” – someone literally at anet. D; Seriously, seems they want wvw to be as monotonic and shallow as possible. I’m getting fed up with this Zerg Wars 2, because thats all wvw is now, zerging!

My mesmer complained about the omnomberry nerf, but my thief couldn’t care less. He can still permastealth.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

Seems fine to me. He was constantly losing the fight. You just have to be more agressive if you actually want to finish him. Also, drop that useless signet for something useful such as throw bolas or frenzy if you want to get a thief, kitten
No offence, but you did NOT perform very well in this video. You are too defensive, even your bullrush is there recharged, yet you don’t use it. Makes me wonder how easily you expect to win.
When you see him at your back, dodge backwards and attack asp. Don’t let him land c&d for re-stealth.

In Wvw, GS phantasamal is a lot better than that clumsy warlock who never hits anything. Other than that, it’s a super boring, monotonic spam weapon. Any bunker ele will just run through you, but the phantasmal is good against thieves.
95% of mesmers run GS though, because they don’t really know how to deal damage via shatters.

95% of mesmers in WvW use the same phantasamal focused GS build. Of all classes, mesmer has the least build variation in WvW. And you know, that gs thing is simpler to run than most thief builds. D;

EasymodeX.4062:

Light armor doesn’t make much of a difference.

Hmh, yeah, not really. But the point is that you can’t “tank” a shatter burst mesmer in WvW setting.

Bunker or not, mesmer is still a light armor class. You can’t endure the burst, you must avoid as much of it as you can. Generally confusion mesmer should win against a glass cannon mesmer, but naturally you can still screw it up.
However, if you are some weird power/thoughness/vitality mesmer, then it might be really difficult to beat a glass cannon shatter.

Hmm in my opinion the confusion from mesmer’s shouldnt affect your own skills or even dodging… to try to remove the confusion from yourself your also killing yourself.. so what to do about that.

What to do? Ask your teammates in TS to use cleansing abilities on you. That’s what everyone did in Guild Wars 1 when they had a confusion-like effect.

Look i can hold off a thief with blocking shield and endure pain, but then he go invisible and 3 seconds later he does the same attack again :P and i cant defend vs that anymore.

Don’t expect to win by just blocking, you must counter attack when you have the chance.

Lonny.9873:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Samhayn.2385:

Master of Timespace.2548:

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Explain me how to beat a semi-decent p/d thief as a mesmer. Well lets say a rather good p/d thief who generally doesn’t do stupid mistakes.

Next you can explain me how to beat him as a warrior. :P I also challenge you to not just explain, but also to prove that your explain is correct (duel a p/d thief who is known to be very good).

I don’t play a Mesmer you would need to find someone who does. I also don’t run p/d or d/d on my thief. I use sword/dagger and short bow (when I play it. running necro at the moment )

But my buddy runs a condition Mesmer and eats p/d for lunch but has a hard time with d/d. On my axe/focus power necro I eat d/d well having a harder time with p/d. It’s a bit of give in take with builds.

Please, a condition mesmer doesn’t stand a smallest chance against p/d. P/d thief has probably the best condition removal in the game. P/d can also play very passively, which means that he can’t be forced to take ticks from confusion, which is 95% of condition mesmers damage.

Guess u underestimate the Mesmers Dueling lvl 15 Minor Trait…

That trait with 1700 condition damage and 50% crit chance, deals 300 to 400 damage per illusion attack. It’s 5second bleed that doesn’t benefit from condition duration boosters. It’s a nice minor boost, but definitely not your main way to cause damage.
In any case, it doesn’t do much against p/d thief as they remove conditions when they stealth.

I see you edited your post, so let me get this straight I need to find a build for two classes that is useful in general and also good at killing select builds? Then I need to share this perfect build with everyone? Well when I find out how to go 30/30/30/30/30 and have all my utilities on my bar I will be here in a flash letting everyone know.

Look, it does work to the other way:
Given any warrior build, there exists a generally useful thief build that beats that warrior build.
If the game is balanced, it should also work to the otherway, should it not?

Samhayn.2385:

Master of Timespace.2548:

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Explain me how to beat a semi-decent p/d thief as a mesmer. Well lets say a rather good p/d thief who generally doesn’t do stupid mistakes.

Next you can explain me how to beat him as a warrior. :P I also challenge you to not just explain, but also to prove that your explain is correct (duel a p/d thief who is known to be very good).

I don’t play a Mesmer you would need to find someone who does. I also don’t run p/d or d/d on my thief. I use sword/dagger and short bow (when I play it. running necro at the moment )

But my buddy runs a condition Mesmer and eats p/d for lunch but has a hard time with d/d. On my axe/focus power necro I eat d/d well having a harder time with p/d. It’s a bit of give in take with builds.

Please, a condition mesmer doesn’t stand a smallest chance against p/d. P/d thief has probably the best condition removal in the game. P/d can also play very passively, which means that he can’t be forced to take ticks from confusion, which is 95% of condition mesmers damage.

I also don’t play a warrior but will tell you that hammer warriors rule.

Lol.

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Explain me how to beat a semi-decent p/d thief as a mesmer. Well lets say a rather good p/d thief who generally doesn’t do stupid mistakes.

Next you can explain me how to beat him as a warrior. :P I also challenge you to not just explain, but also to prove that your explanation is correct. That is, to duel a p/d thief who is known to be very good and win. You should also do this with a build that is generally useful, not some gimmick that is useless against everything else but this 1 thief build.

For now it’s enough if you can show how to beat that thief with any other class than elementalist or thief itself.

So last night I got finished by what seemed like a remote/distanced finishing move (which I know doesn’t exist). I didn’t see any thief go into stealth near me, so I have no clue what it was. It could have been a thief that had been already stealthed or another class that I couldn’t see due to this awesome culling. Anyone else ever experience this? Usually when I get ‘blind’ finished a thief stealths on me basically then finishes me.

It’s a bug that can happen sometimes.

Excellent news. This shows that anet is trying to get distance from the current hand-helding hellokitty universe. This is a move towards a less forgiving world where people have to know what they are doing if they are to succeed.

If it’s p/d, there is only one solution: stealth & leave him.
Seriously though, try to burst him. Most of the p/d thieves out there aren’t that good, but against a decent one there is little you can do.

Naturally necro is better when it comes to aoe and necro is also a lot thougher, but then again necro doesn’t have for example stealth.
Anyway, it is true that some mesmer weapons have problems. Here are some that I find most annoying:

The sword #3 is very unreliable and works 50% time at best.
Torch #5 has 30seconds cool down and creates a phantasam thats barely better than a clone.
Scepter #1 is useless.
Scepter #2 gives just 1 block and cl-reducing traits do not work on it.
Scepter #3 is just way too slow, and has bad range as well.

I will grant The Prestige sees a really substantial boost in power from the buffed Prismatic Understanding.

Prestige does not benefit from Prismatic Understanding.

Staff / GS if you just want to dps a boss. Spam iwarlocks and iphantasams and autoattack with gs. With right setup those warlocks crit 5-9k each. GS clones are also superior since they attack 3 times, thus stacking more bleed than others.

Now I am a stealth heavy thief, not glass cannon, but stealth heavy nonetheless with daggers.

Your build is probably the issue. Don’t run “stealth heavy” with d/d. With that set you gotta go full gank. Those strange hybrid builds are always very easy to defeat as mesmer because they can neither take or deal damage.
If you want to spam stealth, go either p/d or s/d.

Too many rookies here complaining about thieves. The only overpowered thief in existence is the pistol/dagger bleed & stealth spam build. The burst one has many counters and can easily screw up, while that p/d nonsense survives through a nuclear war. I’m not sure if any class, except perhaps ele, could win a decent p/d in a fair duel.
But even then, that’s a duel. That thief isn’t very effective when it comes to roaming as say duo because it deals damage slowly and offers little to no support.

So basically they can reset the fight anytime they want.

Yes they can and that is intented. You must finish the thief at once or he will get away just like a thief in the real life would. The game tries to mimic that: thiefs are hated, dishonorable and slippery. Seriously, if you roam around alone, don’t expect a fair fight.

Are you claiming that all these other games have inferior game design and that their game designers were not as smart as the geniuses of Arenanet?

Probably the dumbest straw-man I’ve ever seen on this board xD.

Confusion can be op against zerg* when you have a necro to spread it, but in small scale fights the confusion build is a lot weaker than the more popular shatter burst build.

*The dumber the person, the more effective the confusion. A zerg is about half as smart as it’s dumbest member. So what do you expect?

Cactus.2710:

Master of Timespace.2548:

This indeed. That guy knows what he is talking about. And you are right, WvW tries to be sandboxy but fails miserably due to several elementary design flaws, one of those being simply bad map design.

Hopefully the next patch brings some new life to this game young game that already feels older than it’s precursor.

Sorry, but the most exciting thing for WvW I’ve come to expect from any new patch is what new bug might have been introduced.

Your cynicism is almost admirable xD. But seriously, I do think that WvW has lots of potential. It’s just that currently WvW looks and feels like a demo or an early version of sorts.

This indeed. That guy knows what he is talking about. And you are right, WvW tries to be sandboxy but fails miserably due to several elementary design flaws, one of those being simply bad map design.

Hopefully the next patch brings some new life to this game young game that already feels older than it’s precursor.

Funny how there are people who complain about gold costs in wvw. They should be doing spvp instead. Open world pvp is supposed to cost and is supposed to be about capital. Besides, the costs are very small here in Guild Wars 2. Compare to say Eve online, and you’ll realise how hand-helding this game actually is.

No. Get rid of them. Having a cooldown doesn’t matter when an item gives you access to conditions and such that you wouldn’t normally have. There’s a reason this game has a heavy restriction on how many utility abilities you can slot. Putting longer cooldowns on consumable items just makes them part of an item rotation. It’ll get to the point where you’re not fighting a profession, you’re fighting a hideous amalgamation of items that are being tossed at you.

Go play spvp. It’s your thing.

This is in fact an excellent idea, but I really doubt the uninspired devs of Anet have the imagination to pull anything even nearly as interesting as this. Instead, chances are they’ll just add a couple of progress bars that the barely sentient can then fill.

Seriously look at wvw. The maps for example (a whopping two of them!) are static, symmetric, quite small, and just plain empty. They do have some good ideas such as the tribal factions and a few “secret” routes, but that’s about it.
Compared to what the world pvp of other mmos can offer, wvw is currently seriously lacking and feels like a demo.
Your idea could bring some live to this game, and thus, it’s probably not going to happen.

Mesmer is ok in 1v1, but not as good as thief, ele or ranger when it comes to “fair” duel on open field. Mesmers excel in areas that have lots of cover though, such as the ruins near the blue keep. In “unfair” fights we are almost as good as thieves, mainly because of our high burst.

nekos.2584:

Master of Timespace.2548:

If you want your game more mistake-friendly (read noob-friendly), then spec your character accordingly: go stealth spam thief or bunker ele, and you you’ll survive through a nuclear war.

Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

They are not.. Rangers are very good when played right. Second only to thief and d/d ele when it comes to 1v1 brawl on an open field. They do take quite a bit of skill though, as you have too coordinate pet attacks carefully. You must also have correct gear and build.

The only remotely good ranger build i have come across, played or fought against is the trapper build and that’s a gimmick build that, if you watch to the state of the game video, will be nerfed.

Yah, that trapper build indeed is what I’m talking about. It’s decent but certainly doesn’t need a nerf. P/d thief and bunker eles are still a lot more powerful. But what video?

If you want your game more mistake-friendly (read noob-friendly), then spec your character accordingly: go stealth spam thief or bunker ele, and you’ll survive through a nuclear war.

Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

They are not.. Rangers are very good when played right. Second only to thief and d/d ele when it comes to 1v1 brawl on an open field. They do take quite a bit of skill though, as you have too coordinate pet attacks carefully. You must also have correct gear and build.

sceptus.9415:

There are a bunch of norn consumables in the Wayfarer’s Foothills people are using too. They should turn them off until they figure out how to fix the issue.

I do hope you intented that sarcastically. Those buffs give stats increase of 6. People use them just because they look so fierce. Especially the snow leopard, love that one!

WvW needs consumables to spice up the otherwise static, simple and one dimensional game world. Naturally the OP ones should be fixed somehow, but I don’t want the already shallow wvw experience to get even more shallow.

You should duel someone 1v1 and let them use skale venom while you don’t. You notice the difference pretty easily.

No you don’t.

jkctmc.8754:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Seriously, if you have 15 confusion stacks on you, it essentially means I have landed 4xcry of frustration, 2xmind wrack and the whole channel of confusing images on you…

Do realise that if I was on my shatter burst build now, you’d be looooong gone already at this point. The mesmer attacks that cause confusion are as easy or easier to dodge than the mesmer attacks that cause direct damage. They also expose the mesmer more. (scepter has much worse defense and mobility than sword).

Confusion mesmer relies on tricking and luring the opponent to do something stupid. If you just walk away or don’t do anything, the mesmer can’t really damage you.

Those complaining about confusion must be the same idiots who frenzied with empathy in Guild Wars 1…

One Mesmer to another. You do not use Combo Fields? O.O

Whether I run confusion or burst build, I spec for duels / solo roaming so my only combo field is Chaos Storm. Utilities are dual images, blink and decoy.
Reasoning:
Without dual images I can’t burst.
Without blink I can’t escape from knockdown or from zergs
Without decoy I can’t counter stealth effectively.

I only complain about the downed state as it gives invulnerability to zergs but nothing to smaller groups. Currently zerg is like some mutated organism: it regenerates so fast that if you can’t destroy it at once, you can’t hurt it at all.

Seriously, if you have 15 confusion stacks on you, it essentially means I have landed 4xcry of frustration, 2xmind wrack and the whole channel of confusing images on you…

Do realise that if I was on my shatter burst build now, you’d be looooong gone already at this point. The mesmer attacks that cause confusion are as easy or easier to dodge than the mesmer attacks that cause direct damage. They also expose the mesmer more. (scepter has much worse defense and mobility than sword).

Confusion mesmer relies on tricking and luring the opponent to do something stupid. If you just walk away or don’t do anything, the mesmer can’t really damage you.

Those complaining about confusion must be the same idiots who frenzied with empathy in Guild Wars 1…

I disagree. I want WvW to be a world domination / war game. OP’s suggestion would be a step towards arcade shooters. (A game genre that I loathe)

7k or so. I spend lots of time in wvw but my overall wvw stats are still somewhat low. I quess it’s because I just run around harrassing the random enemy here and there.

I don’t know how it’s possible to get as many as some of you have. Say if you play three hours a day and get 30 kills per hour, it’d still take almost 100 days to even get my 7k.

Why do you care about badges anyway? They aren’t useful for anything. In the most optimal situation 1badge = 1silver…

The scepter has an advanced weapon play style with a VERY small nitch as does the torch. This in itself is why players shy away from them. I can think of 3 builds total that scepter and torch are used but they’re outstanding when used correctly. This isn’t to say both need work.

No they are not. They can work, but simply because confusion is so powerful against idiots and because you can use staff as your main weapon.

Scepter #1 does nothing except 1 clone every 2 seconds should the last attack hit.
Scepter #2 does 1 block or 1 blinding projectile (that probably doesn’t even hit). The block will do some damage if you wait for the counter attack to go off, but it’s so slow that it makes you take a blow or two as well (ironically for block skill). Considering scepter is only useful if you are running a condition spec, the damage it deals is also very low.
Scepter #3 gives confusion if it hits. It has bad range, is awfully slow to channel and you must be facing towards your enemy during the channel or it breaks. Seriously, you are lucky if you get 5 confusion stacks on a sitting rock with this skill.

Torch #4 is okish. The stealth effect is nice and damage isn’t too shabby. However, unlike other stealth effects, the stealth by this skill can be broken via interrupts and you can’t dodge or channel skills without breaking it.
Torch #5 summons a clone and has 30 seconds cool down.

Seriously, if in a fight you have time to walk around doing nothing for more than 3 seconds, your enemy has serious l2p issues.
Good luck against a sword thief who dazes you every 2 seconds.

Mesmer scepter is one of the worst weapons in the game… Either Anet wants that there aren’t many weapons to choose from or they don’t play their own game. Hmh, perhaps they just don’t care.

I think they should just remove the meaningless clone system and rename Mesmer as the Shaman. Would fit better for this simple-minded game.
Not that I’d want that, but currently clones don’t really play any special role. The only nuisance they cause is that the enemy has to tab through them just like he would tab through ranger pets or necromancer minions.

Gotta laugh at all the thiefs here who think that “reacting” or “aoe” is the right way to counter a thief attack. Makes me wonder if they play their own class.
Now, when a thief combo is done the right way, both mug and cloack & dagger land immeditately from stealth. This cannot be avoided without thinking pre-hand, no matter how fast your reflexes are. To beat a thief, you must be one step ahead of them.
As for Aoe, it is generally very weak in any small scale encounter. Why would it magically be more powerful against invisible targets?
Control conditions, confusion and good burst are what truly work against thiefs.

The only “nerf” that I suggest is that the stealth attacks should go to a 5 second cooldown when they are negated by a defensive ability such as block. Currently their mechanics are way too hand helding (read noob-friendly).

Ugh, well can’t they at least add some hot fix for the queue issue? It just can’t be that overhelmely difficult to think of something. Showing aproximate queue time would already do wonders.

Is this intended?

Yes.
Just don’t stealth when that ranger is throwing arrows at you. Ugh, without this rangers, warriors, etc. would be even more screwed when playing against a stealther (mesmer or thief).

Added a new grandmaster trait:
Assassin’s Promise – If your attack downs a target, he is immeditately defeated.

If I recall correctly, there is a youtube video that reveleals a powerful elementalist pvp exploit. I quess you could try to apply that on a warrior. Don’t know what else you can do about this problem.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

Stealth makes newbies cry :/

I have no problem fighting mesmers and thiefs, but again I don´t run GC. I know there are two stats called Vi and tough.

Unless you play the class you should just crawl back in your hole til you know what you talking about.. He is invis, he is not a ghost. skillshot and aoe can kitten a thief anytime. Thief is anti-bad players.

AoE and killshot against a stealther? Are you serious? Spamming aoe is completly useless against any semi-decent stealther, as is killshot (its too easy to dodge).
What you need against a stealther is strong offence and lots of interrupts.

Downed state is a noob-friendly system to keep a decent roamer thief from wiping the floor with 3+ enemy badge farmers. (The excellent ones do it anyway, though)

I don’t want them to remove downed state, but it should be balanced somehow. Currently it gives incridible advantage to the group that already has the upper hand, while giving nothing to the undertaker. In some other thread someone mentioned implementing “revieve sickness”. A condition that would decrease the damage output of a revieved player.

Mesmer here. Basilisk d&d thiefs who know what they are doing, are very strong opponents indeed.
Fortunately most thiefs out there don’t understand how to take full advantage of stealth. Some of them even start to spin during a fight for who knows what reason. That always make me shake my head and say “You aren’t serious are you ?”.

My opinion is that thief isn’t op. They are strong when played right, like they should be.

I think the real reason why thief seems op is this: thiefs roam and seek duels. They are very experienced in fighting 1v1, 2v1 or even 3v1. Is it really a suprise an experienced roamer thief beats a couple of zerger-badge-farmers?

This is getting kittened. I’m so out of this game if this happens. I don’t understand why anet wants to make these “hello kitty” rules that allow zerging.

The live thing was a horrorshow of dismay and disappointment.

This.

Good thing Arma3 is out soon.