Guild Wars 2

Issues.5789:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

Master of Timespace.2548:

I agree, guardians are so overpowered. The best thief in the world can’t kill a decent guard. I’ve played a very good guard with the a 30/30/0/0/10 build and all he was allowed to do was heal and dodge.. I couldn’t kill him.. If that’s not overpowered I don’t know what is.

Cheesy, super-nooby spike combo isn’t intended to work against everything. Deal with it.

ps. The guard can also do nothing if you just keep perma stealthing with d/p, running around with sword #2, or just spamming c&d on the nearest mob, wall, gate, siege, pet, upscale or whatever.

ur right its not supposed to work against everything. apparently its supposed to work against nothing :P a guardian can kill you by doing nothing. u know that right? just stand still with heals and dodges using retal/burns. he wont even attack and will kill 99.9% of all thievs if he is a good guard. thief cant deal with necros….if a necro uses swarm elite for like what double the hp then the 2ndary HP bar from F skills. yeah a thief has no chance. no elongated dmg to last beyond the first 5-8 seconds. poof no chance. i can go on about every class

The balance in this game is asymmetric. A good sword thief wins my glass shatter with ease, yet almost all bunkers have really hard time against me. No build should work against everything.

What you’re not understanding is that NO, NONE, ZERO, NADA thief build works against a guardian lol. I don’t have troubles with any other classes, except those really really tanky eles and guardians that you can’t do anything no matter what.

Yes, you are right, no class can win against a well enough played spammer master, aka d/d ele. The problem here is that the ele can also deal decent damage and move around fast as the wind.

The tank guard isn’t as big of a problem as they are fairly slow, are easy to kite and deal only a little damage. They are fairly easy to hit hard with shatter mesmer: their blocks and blinds negate only 1 attack, but the shatter burst comes in many small packets. Soo, at best the guard can tank you, but so what? How is it worse than being able to perma stealth?
Sword thief and p/d thief also work well enough against guards that aren’t pure tanks.

Travlane.5948:

Master of Timespace.2548:

I agree, guardians are so overpowered. The best thief in the world can’t kill a decent guard. I’ve played a very good guard with the a 30/30/0/0/10 build and all he was allowed to do was heal and dodge.. I couldn’t kill him.. If that’s not overpowered I don’t know what is.

Cheesy, super-nooby spike combo isn’t intended to work against everything. Deal with it.

ps. The guard can also do nothing if you just keep perma stealthing with d/p, running around with sword #2, or just spamming c&d on the nearest mob, wall, gate, siege, pet, upscale or whatever.

ur right its not supposed to work against everything. apparently its supposed to work against nothing :P a guardian can kill you by doing nothing. u know that right? just stand still with heals and dodges using retal/burns. he wont even attack and will kill 99.9% of all thievs if he is a good guard. thief cant deal with necros….if a necro uses swarm elite for like what double the hp then the 2ndary HP bar from F skills. yeah a thief has no chance. no elongated dmg to last beyond the first 5-8 seconds. poof no chance. i can go on about every class

The balance in this game is asymmetric. A good sword thief wins my glass shatter with ease, yet almost all bunkers have really hard time against me. No build should work against everything.
Also, p/d condition thief can destroy some bunker builds that a damage thief can’t.

I agree, guardians are so overpowered. The best thief in the world can’t kill a decent guard. I’ve played a very good guard with the a 30/30/0/0/10 build and all he was allowed to do was heal and dodge.. I couldn’t kill him.. If that’s not overpowered I don’t know what is.

Cheesy, super-nooby spike combo isn’t intended to work against everything. Deal with it.

ps. The guard can also do nothing if you just perma stealth with d/p, run around with sword #2, or just spam c&d on the nearest mob, wall, gate, siege, pet, upscale or whatever.

There needs to be a class that can punish bunkers and burst thieves in my opinion should be that class.

That class is there, but it’s not and should not be thief. It’s gc shatter Mesmer.

i have to agree. d/p is my backup when dueling however…. it is very prone to being owned by ranged and AOE skills. that said its really like the 2nd/3rd best build available for thieves. p/d bleed invis 5 0 30 30 5 is the best ….2nd being sword build and 3rd D/P. many wont agree with this. that is bc they think that skirmishes are everything even though the prove/do/change nothing. zerg play is the most important. surviving skirmishes to help get to or cap for the zerg is 2nd most important. avoiding 1 v 1s / winning 1 v 1s is the 3rd most IMO. add in capping camps with number 2. D/P gets owned in zerg play. VERY low survivability! dont care what anyone says. blah blah blah pick and choose battles. well picking 1 person and doing 20k dmg to him isnt that impressive in z v z …….an ele/ranger does more even tho they spread the dmg out. bleed thief too with cluster bombs /bleeds and caltrops. area blinds …….what!? d/p can dot hat too? not really…u go intot he middle of a zerg with that build and ur dead most often. then ur putting out 0 dmg. so to recap….

d/p = best dueling build
p/d = best all around WVW build
s/d = best suvivability/dmg build
d/d= best burst build against a non thief/mesmer/guardian

Now, while I agree to most of the things you said, the following line is what I call bullkitten:
" that is bc they think that skirmishes are everything even though the prove/do/change nothing. zerg play is the most important.
"
Sure, zerg play is what wins the weekly match up . But, why in the nine hells should I give a flying kitten about that? Hell, why should anyone? Winning the match up proves/does/changes absolutely nothing in this game. The only thing those abstract numbers at the top of your screen truly indicate, is the WvW population count of your server.
There is no meaningful* world pvp in this game. All we have is a shallow, made-up point-cap crap. This is why people shouldn’t worry about who actually wins it, and instead, just have fun in the type of fights they like – be that blobbing or dueling.

*The term is a little vague, but you know, in WvW everything is flipped 10 times a day, there are no consequences lasting more than 15 minutes, no change of power, and only a little online-drama. Now, compare this to the politics, plots and drama they have in Eve Online.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Master of Timespace.2548:

^^ a zerger whose group got trolled by a decent roamer thief, har har.
Man, gotta love the nooblets who think they are entitled to stomp everything because they have more people.

^^ thief who thinks he’s skilled when he’s really just using abusing a broken game mechanic
Man, gotta love the nooblets who think they are entitled to stomp everything because they rolled thief. /imitation

Say small scale battles —> thief defender says you are a zerger.

I like this post, because it perfectly represents the thief abuser. No actual arguments and poor reading comprehension. His only true weapon is to attempt to insinuate his opposition is incompetent.

Thank you for your contribution.

If you lose 2v1 to anyone in this game, you can’t be very good or he happens to have a build that is extremely effective against you two*. If you don’t believe me, then roll a thief, join a dueling guild and see how well you will do. :P

*I can only think of two such scenarios where the 1 would be thief:
condition builds vs. d/p thief
direct damage bunkers with no condition removal vs. p/d thief

In every other case it’s extremely unlikely that thief can pull off a 2v1, given that they are all semi-decent players.

It’s partly a human nature thing. 

The nature of online gamers is that they do what is effective. Nothing deeper than that going on here. :P

Welcome to wvw, dude.

but I outmatched him in skill, he was making beginner’s mistakes with his Thief…

No you did not if you lost so badly that you came here to complain. I know many wvw roamer necros who kick the kitten of 95% of thieves they encounter.

KrisHQ.4719:

And please don’t put guardian in the same tier as Mesmers. Every good mesmer will tell you that Guardians are the easiest targets.

On average, it goes like this:
shatter mes > guardian
sword thief > shatter mes
guardian > sword thief.
I can eat most guards with my shatter mes, but I know a thief or two against who I don’t stand a smallest chance on my shatter build. Yet, I don’t think they find good guards as easy opponents.
At least when I go thief, I find fighting against mesmers a lot easier than fighting against engineers or guards.

Duels are all about build wars.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Nothing has changed. P/D thieves still laugh at anybody trying to kill them in small scale battles, and thieves still get to pick and choose their conflicts better than any other class.

So keep leveling up that thief alt since nothing will ever change. No game developer seems to understand that stealth is a bad mechanic in multiplayer games like these.

^^ a zerger whose group got trolled by a decent roamer thief, har har.
Man, gotta love the nooblets who think they are entitled to stomp everything because they have more people.

Thief is the only class that can zerg surf…

I wish the WvW JP’s were no-combat zones instead of loot-bag-farms for campers/griefers. They would be so much more enjoyable. Having a neutral areas where players of different sides can enjoy a jumping puzzle together would be a lot more fun than having campers hand out armor repair fees before spamming “/laugh.”

Yeah, pve has like 30 jumping puzzles where you can do that. WvW jumping puzzles are all about griefing. It’s that type game, some people like it.

If I’m having a good duel with someone and a third wheel from my server pops up, I will certainly just leave the area. I’m there for the fights and to have fun, not to help you farm wexp.

Welcome to Blob Wars 2. No, it will not change once you get to lvl 80.

Even these “organised” GvGs are just blobby spam fests. Nothing even close to the extreme precision and organisation you had in Gw1.

Atherakhia.4086:

I hate to break it to you guys, but this whole game is casual. If you honestly think anything about this game could be considered hardcore you clearly haven’t played many other games (don’t even need to be mmo’s).

Currently there exists only one “hardcore” mmo anyway, and that’s Eve online*.

Soo, Gw2 not being hardcore makes it just like the 99.9% of mmos out there. Of course, I’m a little disapointed considering how incridibely similiar this game is to every other mmo out there. After all, a year back from now everyone excepted it to bring something new to the mmo genre and yet it turned out to be “just another casual mmo”. Haha.

*I wouldn’t always want to praise Eve, but it can’t be helped. After experiencing the level of player-player interaction in Eve, it’s difficult to even call other mmos as mmos.

Yes, vanilla GW2 isn’t perfect, adding “vanilla” really puts it in perspective doesn’t it? This isn’t a final work We’re playing here. It is a rock steady foundation upon which Anet can place anything we pay them to, if we pay them

Like more super mario clones?

Diehard.1432:

For 1 v 1 scenario in WvW. I personally find the dual-pistol/confusion engineer is the toughest to beat (could it be the so-called ‘HzH’ build?). Forget thief, d/d ele, mesmer as I find them much easier to fight against.

Yep, engineer is very strong class. The confusion engineer is one of the thoughest opponents you can find. It really amazes me that people think engineer is somehow weak.

RyuDragnier.9476:

So a person who knows what he’s doing with a LB/GS Ranger with a glass cannon build can take out multiple guys by himself and not get killed doing it?

Good ranger can pull 3v1 or 2v1 fairly easily against the average wvwrs, but no, not on gc fit.

I think OP is playing the wrong game. I think http://progressquest.com/ is more his thing.

swinsk.6410:

Ego got you stomped. Good thieves don’t care about the ego boost of fair 1v1’s. They care about making it alive while everyone else is dead.

You are confusing the troll thieves and good thieves, and there are thieves who are both. Good thieves do duels every now and then, and in a duel running away is the same as doing alt-f4, that is, losing.
Good thieves also roam around the map, trolling stupid zerg-zombies who are foolish enough to take part in the futile cat-and-mouse type game.

P.S. Thief resets the fight for the reason anyone else tries to as well. They mess up, get a key skill dodged, etc. Thieves can just reset far more reliably than other classes, with only ele and mesmer having close to the ability to reset.

Yep, thief can and this is intended. Deal with it.

Nah, personally I could care less. I don’t report hackers when I see them because, what’s in there for me?

Waypoints could be given a timer such that only one person can use them in a given amount of time, be that 10 or 5 seconds or so.

Riverside is just another zombie-noob server, just as bad as BB. Full of noobs grinding for the wvw exp.* Generally all language servers are like that for some reason.

*I don’t understand why people are so addicted to filling progress bars.

,
Thief/mesmer, or rather the stealth ability.
I can’t remember how many times the whole army is held by a single stealth invader, and the commander had to tell us to leave the thief/mesmer alone and move on. All you see is a bunch of people hitting the air and the stealth invader just appears/disappears and suddendly you see one of your guys dead. Then more guys died trying to rez the downed. All because of 1 invader. Tell me that is not OP :P.

It’s fairly easy to surf in a noob zerg, and even down some of them via spamming c&d. However, if even 1 non-zombie spots you, it becomes a lot more difficult and generally you just have to leave the zerg.

Tell me that is not OP :P.

So it is OP because your noob zerg got trolled? Gotta love you guys who think that whenever you have more numbers, you should automatically be invulnerable against anything.

thief/mesmer

The fact that you can’t tell which one it was, tells it all.

logging in my c&d troll build

These countless posts by carebears who clearly know nothing about the combat mechanics of the game, really kitten me off. Whenever there is something they can’t counter with button smashing (stealth, confusion), they come here to cry. In a duel setting confusion mesmers can be countered in many ways, one of those being conditions. They don’t often have room for condition removal, and a condition build allows you to play very passively, waiting for the confusion to go off.
If in a team fight you get stacked up confusion, ask (in TS) for a nearby ally to cleanse them – that’s what everyone always did in GW1. GW1 was FULL of confusionlike effects, yet people could easily deal with them via team play.
It’s quite obvious that GW2 enjoys the “new generation” of mmo players: instead of asking for their team mates to help, they ask the devs to dumb the game down to their zombie zerging level.

Dungeons in this game have pis-poo-design anyway. They are linear, static pipes with so corny stories it just makes me feel sorry for whoever made them. Nobody I know likes doing them except for the money. Now that there are no consumables to play with, they are even worse. Sure yeah, its hell of a lots of fun to spam the same skills over and over like a braindead monkey, watching that red progressbar slowly turning into black.

Oh well, quess it’s still fun trying to hit new records on speed clearing of cof, until that fun gets nerffed too.

Indeed, I do think they were removed because they were fun. The dungeon content is trivial anyway (apart from some ridiculously high level fractals), so the reason for their removal can’t be that they were outbalanced. It’s also funny to see how much effort Anet spends to “fix” this kind of mariginal things, when the game would need new real content and when WvW has game breaking glitches. (Supermario clones or other jokes don’t count as real content btw)

I think anet should replace their dungeon designer team, because currently the dungeon content can’t compete at all with what other titles have to offer.

Heibi.4251:

Elano, that still doesn’t deal with the imbalance. Solutions are needed, not, “I know more than you” statements. Mesmers are clearly overpowered. I think I’ve spotted the real mesmer at times only to be incorrect. And the portal bomb is way too overpowered. Party sized ports should be the limit. The WvWorlders will come up with a tactic, like more mesmers, to overcome that limit. Spam clones should be addressed.

How often do you do duels against mesmers? Mesmer is a though opponent, but not more though than a good d/d ele for example.

I think I’ve spotted the real mesmer at times only to be incorrect.

Finding the real mesmer should be trivial in WvW setting where food buffs spoil any cover clones might give.

Heibi.4251:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Heibi.4251:

I am by far no expert on mesmers.

That you clearly aren’t.

So instead arguing against the merits of my ideas, or come up with a better solution, you take the lower road. Any class should have a chance to defeat any other class if the balance was there. Clearly, the balance is out of whack when it comes to the mesmer. I think the most logical adjustment would be the portal option. The clone adjustment definitely needs work. That is why I said they were IDEAS.

The IDEA is this: stop running a crap build. Since this topic is about thieves, I assume you are a thief. In such case:
p/d – wins against shatter burst mesmers and confusion mesmers.
s/d – can win against all mesmer builds if played very well. Some tanky builds might be able to outlast you though.

Any class should have a chance to defeat any other class if the balance was there.

The balance is asymmetric. One build may be good against other, but suck against something else. Among Guild Wars veterans this is known as “build wars”.

Ashanor.5319:

In my opinion, the best way to kill a Mesmer is to use Shortbow with Fire Sigil. Watch for their burst, don’t melee unless confident you can burst them down (low health).

Good tip. Sometimes, when the mesmer doesn’t have powerful phants up, it’s useful to just kite them.

P/d is fairly strong against most mesmers. Only some gimmicky, “pet mesmers” who sit on 3 izerkers can effectively defeat p/d. But those suck against pretty much anything else.

S/d is another strong option. Very effective against almost everything, but it’s not nearly as easy to use as the other thief weapon sets.

I’ll add the shatter builds your encountering are ridiculous at the moment and as a mesmer myself i want these to be toned down, there’s burst and then there’s execution.

The shatter burst loses to good p/d and s/d. But yes, it pwns other mesmers who just try to sit on phants.

Heibi.4251:

I am by far no expert on mesmers.

That you clearly aren’t. In practice, p/d thief wins most competitive mesmer builds*. s/d is also very though opponent for any mesmer.

*Some weird phantasms builds will probably destroy the p/d thief, but those aren’t good against anything else.

Raestloz.7134:

Rez an ally in 3-4 seconds? Are you sure you’ve passed the alcohol test? Last time I tried to rez my ally IN THE MIDST OF BATTLE, it takes a good more than 3-4 seconds. And don’t even get me started on the self-heal skill.There’s a reason it has 40 seconds cast time.

Resurrecting someone requires you to not do anything at all in the meantime. If you think you can resurrect anyone without someone harassing your rump off, clearly we play in different servers.

This guy clearly hasn’t done any 1vX. One ally ressing is a lot faster than stomp without haste.

Tribio, they are being sarcastic :P

@Master of Timespace: I totally see your point with channeled AOE (same principle), but dodges are finite, lol.

Ya, of course dodges are finite. If you are out of dodges when a warrior channels volley, then that’s just too bad. Stealth is not and should not be your magical counter button against everything. Thief mechanics are already way too noob-friendly.

ps. As a thief player I’m amazed that some people think channeled skills need a nerf.

This is intended just as much as it is intended that you take damage from aoe’s while in stealth: Stealth is just that, invisible to enemy. It’s not invulnerability.
Stop complaining about it and learn to deal with it (hint: you can dodge while in stealth).

Victory.2879:

On lower tiers and at quiet times they are still out in force thinking they are somehow decent players being able to exploit a broken mechanic (stealth).

Roll an engineer, take grenades and elixirs and the supply drop- then you can kill 3 of them at once, as I did on my not so noob engi last night:-)

If stealth is broken and an engineer can take down 3 stealthers, then isn’t engi like super broken? Or maybe stealthers just aren’t that broken after all…

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Can we please not have yet another thread about people complaining about the other servers’ zergs.

No we please can’t.

Lulz, seems we showed Aurora and BB who’s who again. Haha. More humiliation to come during this new matchup, too! (Think that’ll be triple humiliation for Aurora?)

Zerging has been a legit tactic since humans started warring.

The zergs we have in gw2 aren’t those epic, massive groups you see in Hollywood movies. They are “zerg blobs” where you have 80+ people on 1 pixel.*

Also, you certainly couldn’t just “zerg” into a castle. In reality sieges took months, even years.

*They can still be lots of fun, ofc…

Very few glass cannons stand a chance against for example a bunker ele or bunker guard. In fact, I think shatter mesmer is the only glass cannon build that can compete against those two. And that shatter mesmer has really kitten hard time against a decent, semi tanky sword thief or tanky p/d condition thief.
So no, it’s not quite as one sided as you claim.

And that’s just duels. When it comes to massive zerg fight (which wvw is all about currently) where you can’t rely on your utilities due to skill lag, it’s obvious that having good defense is important. You can’t run in a blob very well if you can’t absorb damage.

offence.4726:

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

Spvp has differend rules than wvw, in case you didn’t know.
For example:

Healing from Cleansing Wave is reduced by 50% in PvP.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I rather see our skills tied to positioning rather than Stealth.

I want to backstab even without Stealth as long as I am behind or the side of my target because that’s really the only reason why we build around stealth in the first place.

Nonsense. The main defense of a bs thief is stealth. If you don’t use stealth defensively, you aren’t playing as good as you could.

Yeah, and personally I think they should also “normalise” KS. Make it instant cast because it’s so stupid people just dodge it.

When the rules of the game promote blobbing, people will blob. Deal with it. (blob yourself)
For us roamers* its all the same anyway wheter its a 20 man TUP blob or 80man Far Shiverpeaks PUG zerg.

*Thats what I do mostly, but after this day I gotta say running in a blob of 80+ can be hell of a lots of more fun…

You need to insult others
As for the liar comment, we have rolled a 50+ zerg with I think 7 it was, didnt lose anyone either, not even a person going down. Epic fight against a guild that had no idea what they were doing outside of stacking. Is that normal, no I said it was not, but anyone that has fought our guild can attest to what we can do against zergs.

Video or it didn’t happen.
In almost all “zerg owning” videos, no real zerg is getting owned. Same as all those 1vX videos that are actually videos about trolling clueless upscales.

Carebears like both zerging and the item mall, so what do you expect? Zerging is NOT going to be tuned down.

Oh no, zergs need a buff! Personally I think they should inctroduce a wvw exp based ability as follows:
#1rank 10% damage reduction per each nearby ally
#2rank 10% speed boost per each nearby ally
#3rank 10% karma and magic find bonus per each nearby ally
#4rank 100% more damage to doors per each nearby ally

Well, well, looks like both Far Shiverpeaks and Aurora Glade got humiliated pretty bad this week.

lol you can’t do even 2v1 unless you are fighting against clueless people. But yeah, against rookies you can easily pull 1v100, it doesn’t matter at all how many if they have no clue about anything.

You are right, it’s spammers. All those zombies spamming #1.

Yah, but we all know why this doesn’t work. You know, people actually want to play the game they paid for D;

Of course this affects all thieves, especially the good ones. Chaining c&d was fairly powerful and important in certain situations.
For example, if target is low on hp, you are in stealth, you should chain c&d to down him. This would allow you to immeditately continue with stealth stomp.

The thieves who think they aren’t at all affected by this either don’t want to admit it or they just never knew all about the tricks a thief has.

Oxstar.7643:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

Thats too bad. Just don’t get downed, nooblet. Man, I love stealth stomp so much simply because I know noobs cry about it.
The thing is, stealth stomp can be countered. Distortion, Elixir, or Mist Form stomp have no counters, which is fine too because they have longer cool downs.
Shadowstep-stealth stomp is also very hard to counter, but has 50s cool down.

ps. to counter ANY stomper in WvW, just start ressing. You can often res faster than he can stomp.