I disagree personally, if anything I think SR is one of ANet’s best-designed skills. It’s powerful but very much counterable by a variety of options for all the different classes, including other Thieves.
Now the cooldown might seem somewhat unfair compared to 90+ skills for classes like Necro and Warrior but I think the solution is to improve the situation for the latter rather than punish the former.
Even if it has counters, it is still too powerful for something with only 60seconds cool down AND split second cast time. There is simply too much utility in that skill, the most ridiculous of those being the way you can use it to stealth res (even yourself xD).
ps. One way to test if you are actually a good thief, is to roll without SR. Because I’ve noticed it carries soooo many thieves out there.
Dagger off hand #5 ability Cloak and Dagger ‘Stab your foe and vanish in stealth, leaving them vulnerable’ has a range of 130.
My issue is frequent misses with the ability, I understand this is a player side issue due to lag or PC performance or hand eye coordination -just to name a few- but I am wondering if others are also somewhat frustrated after many hours of trying and still failing nearly half the time?
L2p or roll the cookie cutter d/p just like everyone else.
I think it’s works pretty well in general. I know you are PvE, so this probably doesn’t even relate to you, but speaking in a WvW sense, Shadow Refuge is perfect. It’s enough so that the thief can use it to escape, however if the enemy knows what he is doing, could completely end it for the thief through the use of pulls/pushes/aoes.
high risk, high reward, exactly how it should be. Although lately I’ve noticed more and more people knowing how to counter it. Recently I’ve been using shadow refuge as a distraction, while I am secretly behind them. Mwahahaha
It’s not perfect. It’s too strong for 60cl skill.
-Area stealth
-Area heal
-Almost instant cast time.
-Dark field.
-Targetable.
Should have very least 90second cl to be onpair with other utilities.
high risk, high reward, exactly how it should be.
I hope you are kittening kidding me. Using shadow refuge in a fight is sort of like yelling “Time-out, time-out!!”. If there ever was a panic button in this game, then it’s SR.
Retal killing a thief ? The bullcrap sure is strong with this thread. Against some condition p/d builds who attack a lot, retal can be a nuisance, but never a problem. These days I just swap to sword and steal the retal when I’m fighting a player with high retal uptime.
Makes me wonder what amateurs work in Anet’s balance team. They removed the easily avaible Norn food buffs that gave a whopping total of 6 to each stat, and now they add a mega-grinding ability that gives a 250 bonus to vitality?????
What? You don’t find it a bit absurd that the limiting factor in being able to run other GC builds are two profession’s gc builds?
Not as such. The very nature of GC builds in GW2 is something that kills very fast and dies very fast (when you don’t avoid the damage). So two glass canons that fight each other are bound to be something very brutal.
If thief and mesmer didn’t have any effective GC build, you’d get 1-2 other classes to be declared “the kings of GC” and preventing all the other GC builds to be effective.
…..No
A GC engineer, or necro, or ranger, or guardian, are all on even footing.
Thief and mesmer GC are all cannon and hardly glass because of all the teleports/offensive shutdowns they have. They can deliver their burst while invulnerable or untargetable, and they can reset a fight at will whereas the other GC’s do not get that luxury.
Sounds like a problem with those classes more than thieves and mesmers, why punish the haves instead of improving the have nots.
You think that adding targeted teleports, weapon based stun breaking teleports, weapon based evade skills and stealth to 6 professions is better than toning down the amount of evade, teleports, stealth and invulnerability that 2 professions have?
I think it would be easier to:
- Phase Retreat no longer breaks stuns
- Blurred Frenzy now applies 2s of Protection instead of 2s of Invulnerability
- Blink cool down increased to forty five seconds
- Flanking Strike no longer evades
- Larcenous Strike now costs 3 Initiative stealing 2 boons with an unblockable skill should be costly, it’s fracking awesome Players should choose when to use it, not just spam it several times to strip a player of all their boons in 3s, while evading attacks, gap-closing and doing significant damage.
- Shadowstep cool down increased to 60s
- Shadow Return no longer breaks stuns
The Risk vs Reward is currently skewed for Mesmers and Thieves allowing them either too many escapes (which massively benefits total glass cannons)
Or too much survivability
Blurred Frenzy allowing a Mesmer to jump into the middle of a fight and cleave everything while immune to damage once every 8-10s is crazy.
Choosing to do something like that should carry with it the risks the rest of us face when going into the thick of a fight, Mesmers should be susceptible to cleave / AoE damage and Retaliation when using Blurred Frenzy.
Rookie spotted. Phase retreat does not break CC. Also, Blurred Frenzy is really not as special skill as it may appear to rookies. There are many similiar skills, such as:
Warrior whirlwind attack: shorter 3/4s invulnerability, but deals more damage to greater arc and is a movement boost. Whirl Finisher. Same cool down.
Pistol Whip: Evasion comes after a stunning attack during which the thief can move but is vulnerable. Deals more damage than BR.
Quickshot: shoter 3/4s invulnerability and trash damage, but is ranged, grants a small movement boost and gives swiftness if it hits. In addition it has slightly better recharge of 9 seconds. Projectile Finisher.
I think I would rather take the warrior’s whirlwind attack on my shatter mesmer’s bar… Not sure if it would be better in all ocassions, but I just love the sheer offence of that skill. xD
When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.
And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.
Because the ridiculous “SWOOOSH SWOOOSH SWOOOOSH” mutant turtle ninja nonsense thieves have is better ? XD
Now, glass mesmer, no matter what spec, should fairly often lose to a damage thief. Pop your shadow refuge right at the start. Then wait for the stealth to expire, perhaps even extending it a little, and then attack with the c&d, steal, bs combo. Also, remember to chain cloack from their clones.
Pure phantasm mesmers I can imagine are still difficult to beat, but that build needs a nerf anyway.
Also, stunbreakers assigned to mesmer’s best utilities like blink and decoy. On my thief I only had one stunbreaker on a 45 seconds cooldown, on mesmer I have 2 on 30 an 40 secs.
Well why do you run such a trash spec ? I have 2 stun breakers on my utils (one that can be used twice in a row), and infinite stunbreak-teleports on my other weapon set.
I do agree that the “pet mesmer” needs a nerf though. (Because then my thief has 1 challenger less) Meanwhile condition scepter and torch could use a buff, at least in WvW.
let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.
And?
Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.
Flanking Strike says Hai! Death Blossom says Hi! Short Bow #3 says heeyy! Pistol Whip says me too!
Roll for initative, Withdraw and Feline Grace weren’t invited to the party for some reason.
ps. Invulnerability, aka evade, is generally better than reflection or block.
I play a trap ranger, with two dogs, the thief was a p/d tanky condi build and used lots of stealth. Even though I managed to stack poison, burning and 9 stacks of bleed on him, he stealthed and managed to lose all the conditions and emerged with full hp. We weren’t an organized group, and probably didn’t have lots of cc/stun/daze. Having said that, I don’t know of many other classes/builds that you need an organized small group to kill, apart from some good mesmers perhaps. Having said that, the statement that there are only average thieves and trolls is just not right IMHO.
I do remember that happening when I was a lowbie Ranger. I was with two other people, and the Thief managed to take us all down. Truthfully, I had no clue what I was doing. I went down first, then the upleveled Guardian. The other Ranger who was max level took a lot longer to kill, and just barely lost the 1v1. You don’t need to be organized, really. You just need to be prepared. I understand what you’re saying, though.
And when I said “average,” I didn’t mean “of average skill level.” I just meant that they’re actual fighters. They’re there to kill you, not to fool around and troll you. To be clearer, there are serious Thieves and there are troll Thieves. The Thieves who pick people off 1 by 1 fall into the serious category.
I do 3v1 on my p/d thief all the time. It’s not very difficult as long as none of the enemies are very burst heavy. If theres even 1 full burst rifle warrior, I’m forced to turn away. Other thieves with the op condition removal trait can also be a problem. But if they don’t bring that trait, I just pick them off first.
Also, guardians, eles, etc. who can remove conditions from allies mean that I can never actually down them, but trolling is really just as fun. When I play a thief, I just want to kitten you off. I never bother attacking dolyaks if there are no defenders around. But if there is, oh you bet it! Quess I fall to the troll thief gategory xD
I know ~6 people in real live that stopped playing months ago because of this.
Im close to it because im forced to run specific builds and specifig gear just to counter 1 single class. Against every other professions its skill that decides the outcome of the battle. Against this one its gear and build.
After countless duels in both spvp and wvw, I have to agree with this.
Nonsense. If the thief doesn’t panic, nobody can hit him while he is in stealth. I don’t know how stupid one has to be to get hit by aoe or by random blind melee swings.
As much as you’d apparently love to believe so, Thieves aren’t immortal, even in stealth.
Trash thieves with crap specs sure aren’t. But a decent thief doesn’t die unless if he decides to keep fighting against impossible odds. I’m not even good and I still hardly ever die as a thief.
Sure you can stealth, but that still doesn’t help when someone who doesn’t panic thinks smart and actually hits you.
Nonsense. If the thief doesn’t panic, nobody can hit him while he is in stealth. I don’t know how stupid one has to be to get hit by aoe or by random blind melee swings.
It was created because I wanted to gain knowledge about how glass cannon thief works.
Thief doesn’t need to run glass cannon to pack a lot’s of punch. We can run valkyrie type gear while still having a decent crit chance, not to mention 100% crit chance with our main burst skill, backstab.
Almost all roamers out there are thieves (myself included) and though it’s sort of hilarious, it’s slowly getting dull.
Those who think thieves aren’t op have to be quite bad players themselves, or just don’t know a single good thief.
I generally start any thief fight by throwing down my longbow burst fire field combined with pin down when the thief reveals themselves. I follow that up with my burst AoE, and when that rotation is on cooldown and the thief stealths, I dodge after a second or so and follow it up with endure pain since the thief is guaranteed to use backstab within that time. By that point I can use eviscerate and my whirl attacks timed right to mess up a backstab again.
Longbow warrior against a thief ? Whahahahahhah
I dodge after a second or so and follow it up with endure pain since the thief is guaranteed to use backstab within that time
Really? Well I just laugh in my perma stealth when you pop your endure pain at nothing. Oh, unless if I’m on my p/d build. Then I just use sneak attack xD.
That’s the funny part I am running max mf gear and the gem store mf booster and the larels magic find booster and max mf food. As for the lottery analogy; I cant see it since they got quite a few wing drops that would be the same as them winning multiple lotteries with 1 ticket. I figured the reason they got so many holo wings was because the drop rate on them really wasn’t so bad and it was just my random drop rate that was bad or just my same bad luck as always.
It’s just luck. Each time a person with no mf loots a mob, it’s essentially 1 lottery ticket. If a person with 200% mf loots a mob, that’s 3 lottery tickets.
Dam! I did not get a skin either, now everyone will kill me in PVP =/. So unfair that they get a skin and it has made them so powerful! I can’t believe that these lucky people will have the edge over me now in pve as well! /s
In all seriousness go play other MMO’s and see how good you have it in GW2.
When compared to high quality MMO’s such as Eve Online and Guild Wars 1 and hell, even to Runescape, I have to say it’s a lot worse here. Mainly because of how low the “Rich” box scam is.
Of course what we have here isn’t as bad as what you have in a random, “free to play” trash, but I sort of expected Guild Wars 2 to be very far above those. Quess I was wrong.
MF gives you more crates from farming, but it does not increase the quality of the loot the boxes itself drop. It should also increase the chances of getting a wing drop from a mob, but since that chance is quite low, it’s fairly possible you still never get one.
You know, if you use 5 lottery tickets and your friend wins by using just 1, well it’s not that weird.
Go back and read what they actually said. They want you to grind for cosmetics. They don’t believe in farming for top tier stats. As in my 10 gold exotic weapon performs just like a 2000 gold exotic weapon.
I feel it’s a bug. When you preview the Jade Weapons, they all seem fairly detailed. However, when you actually see one in game, it looks like some cheap low-poly model. This is especially true for the staff, though, axe seemed fine ?
Maybe make it so that shortbow 5# has 50% chance of getting you up stairs. Oh and 0.1% chance of dropping you into the Teleportania. Would fit to the current theme of the game.
Some people don’t understand how large number 100k is. Imagine that you could get 250 candies by just porting to orr. Assume also that you would then have to go bank them in Lions Arch before receiving more candies from orr.
Now, it would still cost more than 10 gold in waypoint costs alone to get the required 100k candies xD, not to mention the several hours you would be watching loading screens .:D
But since you can just buy them off TP for not too much gold, I think the wings are fine. No, I don’t think you are meant to get the wings via candy farm.
No, Zenith, I suffer from a problem where I try and be as honest as possible.
You don’t lie but nor are you telling the full truth. That’s not being honest.
Well as a matter of fact you also lie once.
1.You can get a wing skin from Achievements
No you can’t.
2. a random drop
Which about as likely, if not less likely than, winning in lottery. ( compare the number of gw2 players to the number of avaible wings in TP)
3. can buy candy from the TP
valid point since you can just buy the wings directly from TP.
4. loot them from chests,
Same as 2.
or from Holographic mobs.
Same as 2.
The wings aren’t a problem because of 3. But the RNG boxes are nothing short of a scam.
For your number one, did something change, because last time I checked the reward for getting the meta achievement was the wings?
It’s differend wings. Hopefully prettier than the ugly imp wings you get via the candies.
No, Zenith, I suffer from a problem where I try and be as honest as possible.
You don’t lie but nor are you telling the full truth. That’s not being honest.
Well as a matter of fact you also lie once.
1.You can get a wing skin from Achievements
No you can’t.
2. a random drop
Which about as likely, if not less likely than, winning in lottery. ( compare the number of gw2 players to the number of avaible wings in TP)
3. can buy candy from the TP
valid point since you can just buy the wings directly from TP.
4. loot them from chests,
Same as 2.
or from Holographic mobs.
Same as 2.
The wings aren’t a problem because of 3. But the RNG boxes are nothing short of a scam. Your answer to this was
You can just loot the coffers or buy them from the TP.
and my answer is again that it’s too unlikely that you loot them from a coffer.
No. I think he wants to spread a word of warning about the relatively small, yet extremely zelaus fanboy population we have here.
“He disagrees with me, therefore he is a fanboy”
Also know as
“Us vs them”
There are at least four different logical leaps in that thought process alone. Please try again.
Me ? Where did I say anyone was a fanboy? I merely said that the particular person perhaps wants us to spread a word of warning about this oh, quite vocal fanboy population. It was your own idea to think I try to suggest you are one of them. Perhaps for a reason, hmm ? (:
ps. The irony is here (though I doubt you can see such a thing in yourself):
What do you want to spread, that they make a buck from extremely irresponsible (and perhaps borderline maniac) customers who desire stat-less vanity skins?
See, there you define people who feel they were ripped off by Anet as irresponsible maniacs and whatnot. Now that I call you a fanboy it’s a logical flaw.
What do you want to spread, that they make a buck from extremely irresponsible (and perhaps borderline maniac) customers who desire stat-less vanity skins?
So surely it doesn’t matter that you wear pvp armor? I mean, skins don’t affect your stats! Right?
Additionally, spread the word about what is going on here. A company is nothing without its reputation.
What do you want to spread, that they make a buck from extremely irresponsible (and perhaps borderline maniac) customers who desire stat-less vanity skins?
No. I think he wants to spread a word of warning about the relatively small, yet extremely zelaus fanboy population we have here.
Nowhere does it state that buying X number of rich coffers guarantees you anything.. its a random chance just like anything else in this game… don’t like it don’t buy it, simple as that
Yea it’s like the dude who tries to sell a precursor through mail. There’s about 10% chance that you actually get it after sending the moneys. You know, they are called scammers
Funny. Before games made money by having rich content. Nowdays it’s all about profiting through artificial scarcity. Dis………………wait for it……………………………..GUSTING.
1 ticker out of 350 dragon coffers so far. That’s about 30g spent for one weapon skin thus far.
EDIT:
Out of 850 Dragon Coffers, 1 ticket.
GG CasinoNet
Lol yea CasinoNet, thats awesome name, because that’s exactly what me and my friends thought about the current state of Guild Wars 2: it’s just a big casino game.
Apparently there are regulations but they allow things like this because you are guaranteed to get something for your money and you know what the possible prizes are in advance.
These games are currently exploiting that exact loophole. That’s why it’s so disgusting. Mark my words, it’s just a matter of time this kind of bs will be illegal.
There really should be some sort of regulations to prevent this kind of disgusting money milking. Selling “nothing” for ridiculous prices is a way too common in online games nowdays.
This stealth spamming is indeed quite ridiculous. If some outsider saw me playing a thief / fighting a thief, he would probably after a small while of silence just ask “Why do you play this game?”.
edit: I’ve also tried the condition, it’s terri bad (at least against people who know what they’re doing). Also, making some numbers, 16k doesn’t seem enough.
Seems like there’s a hidden holy trinity inside all this which goes glass>balanced>bunker>glass
I consider my traits fairly balanced, since my mitigation comes from else than just taking hits.
Also, this is just one single character, then imagine more.
And one last thing, I think I should not consider much changes since they’re supposed to bring some trait changes some time soon, and I think crit strikes will take a hard hit there.
No, you just run a glass spec that still has good active defence. With such a spec it is always possible to screw up and lose fast because even 1 mistake can turn the tide of the battle. It is same thing for a glkittenter mesmer that I run. If I don’t focus, I can very easily lose against a good, agressive zerger warrior.
EDIT: gotta love the cursing filter we have on these forums xD
The one against the warrior is quite high. What specs are you using ?
30/30/10. Not fully trained for glass. And that last 10 does make a huge difference. In your backstab numbers. + if you traited for signets. You’d hit like a Mini Cooper. Not to mention a truck. but I like regaining intuitive after my CnD.
I see. Gotta try it myself soon too. By the way, in those picks you aren’t even using buff food. Did you have it at the time of getting those numbers?
I don’t really like using food unless its for PVT GEAR Zerg fights. Can never have enough toughness in Zerg fights.
Hmm why not ? :p It’s a fine damage bonus for only several silver.
The one against the warrior is quite high. What specs are you using ?
30/30/10. Not fully trained for glass. And that last 10 does make a huge difference. In your backstab numbers. + if you traited for signets. You’d hit like a Mini Cooper. Not to mention a truck. but I like regaining intuitive after my CnD.
I see. Gotta try it myself soon too. By the way, in those picks you aren’t even using buff food. Did you have it at the time of getting those numbers?
Did you know that thief can easily chain 12 seconds of stealth from just 1 black powder? (4 x hs)
To start he’d be lucky to get 4 hs on a black powder. I can only manage 3 at the best of times but whatever.
It’s easy to chain it 4 times. You need to span view quickly with mouse just before the leap starts. That bugs it so that you don’t move out of the blind field. Takes little practice but really easy once you get it.
How would you describe Blurred Frenzy with 2sec invulnerability and 10sec CD as?
It roots. Also, that 2 sec inv. skill corresponds to many skills thief has in their weapon sets:
d/p – infinite stealth and blind field.
x/d – spammable stealth, death blossom evades, so does flanking strike.
s/p – pistol whip evades, blind field.
Even warrior has somewhat similiar skill: whirling attack of great sword. It evades for only 3/4 seconds, but deals more damage and into a greater arc, in addition of being a quick movement boost. It has the exact same cool down.
So yeah, that blurred frenzy isn’t as special as it may appear for rookies. It’s just generally more defensive version of the many evade skills differend professions have.
But make dagger storm a 3 second invulnerability that bleeds and doesnt root on 90 second cl. My thief will LOVE it.
We have initiative and are supposed to be bursty. By definition the entire class is meant to spam abilities. If we weren’t supposed to spam we’d have cooldowns. Spamming done properly isn’t noobish, cheap, lame, or wrong. It’s what we are. Time to deal with it.
It sure is cheesy and easy though.
I’m a wvw scout for my server and frankly I like not getting ran over by zergs and keeping my bloodlust stacks.
Scout? In my server we just have spies in the enemy server lol. But be a man all you want.
No, sorry. That would be Pistol Dagger. Now that build is straight kitten!
It is. I can tell because I run it a lot. But at least you can “dodge” the cloack and dagger.
D/p isn’t a noob build. It’s just simply the best weapon choice for stealthing.
Brilliant logic right here. Also, I win buttons aren’t noob buttons, they are just best choices of buttons for winning.
I have to dissagree with your post as well, mesmers are very easy to pick out from clones and standing there with them is not going to help.
The idea is that if you dodge / block /whatever a backstab near your clone, the backstab lands on the clone revealing the thief.
You can also use clones to block the stealth attack of p/d thief.
Even the mesmer trait that makes a clone when you dodge is very effective.
This trait works on both ways when fighting a thief. Having it makes it impossible to dodge cloack and dagger. You may not take the damage, but the thief will get stealth from the new clone.
Some siege needs changes but so does that kittening downed state. Currently it gives extremely high boost to the side who already has the upper hand. In WvW it essentially makes a zerg immune to hit and run tactics. It’s really bad piece of game design. I don’t want it to get removed but it has to be tuned somehow.
I do not quite get this… If a server has an overwhelming night time prescence and thereby maintains itself in a level higher than it should be, then surely its prime time (as in the majority) of its players are getting the crap kicked out of them whilst online… Wheres the fun in that?
. I never bother attacking dolyaks if there are no defenders around. But if there is, oh you bet it! Quess I fall to the troll thief gategory xD