And a thief who go permastealth is a thief who doesnt hit
You clearly don’t even understand how a d/p thief works. The main source of damage is backstab, and hs to a lesser extend. You could go full valkyrie and still land very high damage backstabs with 100% crit chance.
So maybe you suck big timeego rosik is the big issue in this game.
Less cry more chill, dude.
Well, in pve, any class but thief and warrior are jokes as damage dealers. Fortunately mesmer is still wanted for damage parties because of portal, signet of inspiration and time wrap.
I run a shatter mes in pve, the damage isn’t of course even close to what my warrior does, but I can still apply some vuln stacks or reflect, if I trait for focus. Unfortunately most boss attacks are unblockable and can’t be reflected.
or stealth was redesigned in such a way as to require a trade off (slower movement, less defense)
A thief full zerk with 0 points in SA is already with “less defence”..
Don’t think running with pants only is the best thing :p
Point is that noone wanna belive when someone says “keep hitting when you see the red circle”. Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time, when i popup stealth ppl start to run away in panic mode.
Reducing stealth means only more mobility, more defence and more damage. It’s the trade-off.
Even if people would really see thieves running with pants/no stealth/no damage becouse every ego issue needs its scapegoat.
Stop bringing the 0 shadow arts zerg thief into the discussion. There is nothing overpowered in that build, it’s not even that good as a burst build when compared to say warriors. It has nothing to do with this discussion. The issue here is the stealth spamming d/p build that has at least 10 in Shadow Arts.
These d/p builds often carry valkyrie gear mix and are fairly durable. They don’t need extremely high precision to be effective.
Most of time with 2 hits half of my health bar is gone and, always most of time,
My burst rifle warrior can still get these annoying d/p thieves. Most of the d/p thieves aren’t that good so they don’t understand how a channeled skill such as rifle f1 works with stealth. Sometimes it’s also enough to pop fear me and f1 because apparently they don’t know that stunbreak removes fear. Unfortunately the little more experienced d/p thieves know how to stun break and dodge :S, not to mention blind.
aoe cap is to balance some classes with others and to remove the insta dead when aoeing a zerg.
the major boon that make it so an aoe cap is a must is retaliation given that 1 person with retaliation gives around 250-300 damage(or more), then 5 people gives 5 times that much(each damage tick), thats 1250-1500 damage each damage tick, but now we say 50 people has it then its 12500-15000 damage each tick, now 80 people has it that gives you 20000-24000 damage each tick, and then we begin to stack might to what happens now?
oh the damage you get increases
With the fact that 1-2 hammer guardians can keep the retaliation up forever alone on all 80 people as there shouts has no aoe cap. It will then make a meta where a zerg can run around insta kill anyone hitting them with 2 people just useing light feilds and blast finishers and a few other people stacking might all the time they never need to attack anyone as anyone touches them they die.
and thats why there is a aoe limit
But perhaps that means that retalation needs a cap, not aoe?
Simple question. Why is there an aoe cap? And no, please do not come up with that “technical limitation” lie. There has been thousands games before this with massive pvp and no aoe cap, why would your engine be somehow so infernior to that of these older games?
so the portal gun for a few points of karma is the superior item?! Hmmm.
The portal gun is just a type of a leap: it leaps and creates portal between start and end of the leap. You can’t place the two portals far from each other.
I’m going to preface this by saying I love this game, I play almost every day and I have thoroughly enjoyed the living story, new content and I’m very much looking forward to this patch as well.
With that said, has this champion thing been thought out well? Before I start making assumptions, could we get some more clarification on this? Most champions are ridiculously easy to kill and it’s really starting to get easy to get anything in this game at that point. I’d like some challenge, not turning this game into that “other MMO” where everything is handed to you on a silver platter.
I’d enjoy hearing some more details about this.
It’s impossible to make something challenging in an open-world game. Because the devs would have to construct every single scenario that could come about, with consideration of class and # of people participating.
If you want a challenge, then I suggest you stick to doing the harder dungeons which will have a 3G reward (Arah for e.g.)
Sure is: add a fixed reward and let the players fight for it. Will definitely be challenging.
Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.
Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.
says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.
This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.
You’re thinking of Retal and Confusion on way too small of a scale. In most cases Theives can only stealth themselves and the ability to stealth others are both on cooldowns. Retal on the other hand could be applied to entire zerges and maintained. Things would happen like classes killing themselves just because they casted a multihitting AoE. Not sure about confusion, but I do know I’ve seen people insta-downed when ganging up on a confusion mesmer.
As long as the 5man aoe cap remains, every balance change to zerging or large scale warfare will be meaningless.
For once, Anet didnt give the access of one content to the whole player base, For once we have difficulty, for once being skilled give you an advantage.
Please, do not start to complain, please just don’t, casuals have got content enough, do not take it from us, or this game will be ruined by casuals (or actually is).
Lol. Took me 3 tries with my zerg warrior and I just camped at the back, using perhaps 3 differend skills.
It’s trivial to solo it with a zerg warrior. You need to use 2 or 3 differend skills. Just camp at the back and hope that no charr naders appear, because they somehow aggro more easily and draw more mobs.
Really, how incompetent are the people who are creating this content? This particular activity is just plain retarted.
ps. The obvious build is 10/20/0/10/30, r/g, full zerg, crit dmg and power food, outlaw potions.
All I can say is deal with it, I know its harsh but its true. Even if you find another game to migrate to somewhere somehow it will have its cheats and hacks for example: almost every FPS game has a type of aim bot, WoW and RIFT and other games of the sort have multiboxing, (which isn’t a bannable offense there) Fighting games like Tekken to this day can be ruled by turbo controllers, you get the point.
At least its a somewhat rare occasion, but their way of handling hacks such as the teleport bot and flying leaves a bitter taste, you can add these people to your friends list and see 1st hand that reports do nothing as they are online for months after dozens of reports.
I agree. People need to realize that people WvW, PvE, and sPvP. It’s silly to say Anet doesn’t care, but they are a business and need to make money. MMO’s are expensive to make and maintain. What we can hope for is that they become more efficient at creating.
That doesn’t mean that it is okay for the company to ignore important issues like this though.
It’s just an unfortunate side effect of the absurd decision of leaving monks out of this game. In guild wars 1 you could have other classes to effectively clean of kitten from allies. Warriors weren’t weak even if they had zero hex removal skills.
Custom Arenas are the answer to your prayers. They’re balanced.
Also, the Windmill in (insert server here) BL. They’re unbalanced.
Spvp is balanced for spvp, not duels, though. Besides, open world dueling could offer interesting places to fight at, like on some plank high above the ground.
Group events are an example of what you would start seeing, so many particle effects going off from the duelists you would not be able to even make out the rest of the game.
Group events where? At the middle of Gendarran Fields or some other area nobody EVER goes? Even disabling it in towns seems pointless. There is already costume brawl and I’m sure it doesn’t bother anyone – and if it does, then perhaps its time to look at the mirror.
You just swap to it to steal the boons. Sure you lose some damage in the process, but it’s worth it if you steal a good bunch of boons. You can also pressure via caltrops spam while doing it.
Retaliation has already been nerfed. It is fine as-is.
so you would take sneak attack or unload and beat a guardian? ill challenge you to that lol. its a lil op when its up perma. if it was a lil harder to get…then i would agree.
As a p/d thief I like to carry sword as a secondary weapon. It’s fairly useful in this kind of encounters. In zerg vs zerg there isn’t much you can do about it though.
Sorta weird that all auras and chaos armor have internal cool down but retalation does not.
Iperson, deceptive evasion and the boon stripping one are all nice. The vigor on shatter is fun and useful in pve. For example in CoE you need to dodge a lot, and say necros have trouble maintaining enough energy. This trait really helps them there.
Keep in mind Shadow Refuge has a limit of 5 players and you must stay in the circle. Mass Invis is max 10 players, has a larger range and you and your allies can move while casting it.
But shadow refuge also applies longer stealth, heals and is a dark field. Not to mention that it pulses stealth, which means stealth related traits trigger multiple times.
50$ for 1 skin is indeed a rip off. It’s really not any better than those My Little Pony games where you need to pay 10e to change colour of the background of the game.
lol if you guys really have this much trouble with them carry a reveal trap with you and its game over for any thief but from some of the stuff i see here though that may not even help you lol.
Listen to this guy. Top advice.
In order to beat a Thief you need to buy a Stealth Trap for 15 badges and carry around 10 supply. If you run into a Thief you need to then spend 4seconds placing the trap. Using up that 10supply.
This next part is really important.
PRAY the Thief is actually stupid enough to walk into the fairly small range at which the trap triggers.
Well, now he has Revealed for 30seconds so he’ll just run away. He’ll be back shortly however… So, yah.
And there you have it, as you can see Thieves are perfectly balanced as there are totally, perfectly reasonable, counters.
Think you forgot that the stealth trap is wasted if you are blinded, though.
we are obviously on the last 2 in dungeons/pve without really much arguable there.
Didn’t even read the rest. :P (Mainly because your post is written using the “flow of thought” – technique, and is thus a pain to read.)
The ideal party for most dungeons and fractals is
3 warriors, 1 mesmer, 1 thief. Some prefer guard over thief, but I and most of my dungeon farming guildies prefer thief.
Necro’s are OP as it is. Here, I have the perfect steps for you…
1. Pull out staff
2. Spam 1 through 5 around you
3. Stand in the middle of your circle of win
4. Go lych form and prema-fear every thing
5. Go on forums, cry about being under-powered
6. Win
^ doesn’t know that you can dodge roll to negate marks.
It’s bad enough it’s the weakest profession in the game right now, the last thing we need is to add cool-downs on skills.
Now that’s just some worst bull kitten I have seen in a while in these forums.
Anyway, I wouldn’t even care if they’d add that mechanic suggested by OP. Would it even affect anything else but might stacking short bow thieves, and perhaps slightly reduce the stealth effectivity of a d/p thief? Oh and sword dagger yes.
in short it will kill the thief class.
D/d, p/d and d/p would all still be effective though. Underwater thief and p/p are useless anyway.
I’d hate to break it to you, its a crutch, but its cool, keep thinking your so awesome on your thief
the ability to break targeting is OP but I guess your delusional
PS. keep thinking your awesome, everyone else knows your not
Edit: look at it this way, any other class that does not have a stealth mechanic goes 1vX a group of people lets say 4, that’s 4 people that are focusing them, it takes skill to take every one of those enemies abilities, constantly, and survive let alone being able to stomp them and survive
stealth…it takes away the threat of 4 people having their targeting reticles on you, once you stealth its a guessing game, even if its for a few seconds that’s enough time to cut and run or line up for a ridiculous amount of dmg from backstab, Cloak and dagger? ive taken 5k dmg from cloak and dagger, and it stealths you when it hits, oh your stealth? heres a backstab for 9k dmg, 14k dmg and all you have to do is run up to someone and press 2 buttons while being untargetable and I have to guess a dodge roll because I cant see you, i’d like to welcome you to a troll class
Despite what you say the sky is blue and you can’t change that.
(Stealth is not a crutch and you can’t change that)
You never argued any of my points. You just took one sentence and said “lol wrong” and started rambling on about something unrelated. You don’t have valid points about being unable to deny backstab as I have met several players who are very good at denying backstabs.
It can be just that you are bad at landing them, though.
Again, my arguments still stand and your refusal and/or inability to refute them speaks for itself.
What arguments? That you know people who are “good at denying backstabs”? Well then I know people who never ever miss a backstab. You do realise that these aren’t arguments at all?
It’s funny you complain about thief roaming when they’re possibly the worst class 1v1. They’re very good at sniping dollys but that’s about it.
Oh is it opposite day already?
So… you trying to say that you think thief is possibly the best 1v1 class?
That’s still probably d/d elementalist, but thief is best BY FAR when it comes to duels that aren’t set up in a fight club.
Hm… what exactly makes you think that?
S/D (not D/D) is very strong 1vs1. D/D has balanced chances if not played overly bunker versus other ppl skilled and geared for 1vs1.
Ranger, Mesmer and Engi would make my top 3. But just because there are few good wariiors. A good warrior can kill anything 1vs1.
I think it’s the versality of D/D elementalist that makes it good 1v1 class. I feel that s/d has more counters.
I’d hate to break it to you, its a crutch, but its cool, keep thinking your so awesome on your thief
the ability to break targeting is OP but I guess your delusional
PS. keep thinking your awesome, everyone else knows your not
Edit: look at it this way, any other class that does not have a stealth mechanic goes 1vX a group of people lets say 4, that’s 4 people that are focusing them, it takes skill to take every one of those enemies abilities, constantly, and survive let alone being able to stomp them and survive
stealth…it takes away the threat of 4 people having their targeting reticles on you, once you stealth its a guessing game, even if its for a few seconds that’s enough time to cut and run or line up for a ridiculous amount of dmg from backstab, Cloak and dagger? ive taken 5k dmg from cloak and dagger, and it stealths you when it hits, oh your stealth? heres a backstab for 9k dmg, 14k dmg and all you have to do is run up to someone and press 2 buttons while being untargetable and I have to guess a dodge roll because I cant see you, i’d like to welcome you to a troll class
Despite what you say the sky is blue and you can’t change that.
(Stealth is not a crutch and you can’t change that)
You never argued any of my points. You just took one sentence and said “lol wrong” and started rambling on about something unrelated. You don’t have valid points about being unable to deny backstab as I have met several players who are very good at denying backstabs.
It can be just that you are bad at landing them, though.
So an elementalist crying that someone got away via 240second cl dash? Sorry, I have only 1 thing to say about this: WHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH
Sorry what? I cant remember the last time I could get away from someone as ele. Lighting Flash and RTL might be nice and stuff. But any thief just catches up 3 seconds later. And sadly 90% of roaming WvW population are thiefs. I always ask myself if I missed some skills besides RTL, Lighting Flash and mabye Fire 3 to make some distance. Because I dont see a Thief, melee Ranger or a Sword/Horn Warrior lose to Ele any day. And nobody is talking about mobility of those classes.
Running away from stuff like Necros and Guardians doesnt count.
But if you combine something like a Ranger (or really a “Closer”, melee version) with the Norn skills it gets quite funny.
Yeah. But perhaps the problem there is thief, not that Norn Elite that I’ve seen used perhaps 10 times. All it gives is an escape card every 240 seconds, and perhaps some warriors (like my guildie) can use it to Troll Shot from stealth.
Really, stop playing that PVT tank if you don’t want people to get away.
Why not remove rallying off killing someone in WVW to at least SORT OF make zerging less forgiving.
Agreed.
There is too much invested in the whole downed-state thing to expect the devs to eliminate it completely, but this would be a simple change.
You know, there was so much time and effort invested into the Concord project. It still sucked and had to be cancelled eventually. The stubbornism of the deveplovers is hurting the game.
Everyone needs to stop calling stealth a crutch. It’s not. If you think it is then you clearly dont know what a crutch actually is. A crutch makes bad players better but makes good players worse. Stealth may allow bad players to do better but it does not make good players worse.
Crutches, the things people use who can’t walk properly for whatever reason is a great example. People who can’t walk properly are the “bad players” and crutches to make up for their inabilities. People who can walk properly are the “good players”. Making then walk with crutches actually hinders their ability to walk.
