So after reading all of the comments below and doing my best to respond to as many as I could I’ve come to the conclusion that the community does not want to actually play this mini game, and only wants the achievement points. If that is what the majority wants, then I guess it is pointless for me to continue to argue my point.
I will close by saying that it would maybe fix this problem the awards were adjusted for 1st 2nd and 3rd place to give people more incentive to win. I suppose I will just have to accept that no ones wants any mini-game in gw2 to ever be played fairly.
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Your conclusion is wrong. Correct conclusion is that there exists 3 type of people:
a) those who want to play the mini game.
b) those who want to get the achievment.
c) those who want to win for ep reasons.
These aren’t mutually exclusive at all, but fortunately it appears that the group c) is fairly small.
It wasn’t THAT powerful to being with, but now its just another passive effect that you hardly notice. On my p/d thief I often thought twice if it was worth it to use a sneak attack on a mesmer that has chaos armor on, as that would give me 5 random conditions and him 5 random buffs. Now I will certainly use it without hesitating of course.
Hate with passion. It is about as interesting as warriors rifle.
1 direct damage skill.
2 direct damage skill with minor aoe effect.
3 direct damage skill with minor aoe effect, trivial utility via the boon removal.
4 direct damage skill with moderate aoe effect and moderate utility via cripple.
5 slightly improved version of warriors rifle butt, but with less damage.
Sort of hilarious that you get a good portion of all the achv. points I get from WvW by just climbing up that silly puzzle. (Something I have done like 100 times before it was cool!)
Dunno, celestial armor only fits for very select builds, one of those being perhaps dagger / dagger elementalist. Soo, I’m just gonna sell my crystals and I think many others will do the same. I doubt it will be very valuable in the market.
No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.
So there he goes, links the second most overpowered thing in existence xD, dagger dagger ele. And thats some pre nerf video as well. The difference between a thief and a general 1vX build is often that the thief is the only one who can effectively burst targets down. Glass mesmer is another but they aren’t as mobile or survivable, and the phant spec needs a nerf anyway, it’s such a retarted spec. The others are essentially type of troll builds that can only defeat those who are foolish enough to keep bashing their heads to the wall.
And really, anyone can make a video where he fights “well” against some rookies* in WvW so linking a wall of videos (or just a video) isn’t much of an argument towards either side. But I suppose that is your point.
*For example the mesmer video. At the end he defeats some two opposing players of which other is some guard who seems to be semi afk, and other is a staff ele who walks backwards and uses keyboard to turn… The fact that he included this in his video tells everything xD.
Annoying bug introduced last patch prevents me from creating clones while holding a bundle. Real nuisance in some pve areas where you have to carry stuff while avoiding mobs.
That’s the problem, it is only logical in YOUR mind.
He means logical as in “gameplay wise”. And I think he has a point, stealth is a little hand helding as it is now. You know, like training wheels. They also soften up the mistakes you make.
[Make block work only on front]Actually this is a nice Idea, and it would raise the skill ceiling of the game a little.
No it’s not. Camera spinning is a way too big gameplay element already. Well maybe it makes sense with things like shield stance, but to compensate, there should be a major CC effect from being blocked. You know, in reality if you let a shield warrior block, there is a good chance that you end up knocked on the ground or very least disarmed.
On the topic, my suggestion is that stealth attacks should have a short cool down to prevent them from being spammed. It is a little noob friendly at the moment.
When a Dev runs havok with 2 Thieves and 2 Mesmers, that tell’s you something is fishy with balancing and stealth.
I’d love if damage removed stealth. Like most game designers knew to do.
My actual counter balance for stealth would be, Ranger pet’s ignore or see through stealth. Because Thieves should share in our “Oh… F” moments in the game too
This is if Ranger Pet’s could actually hit anyone in WvW
That could be one interesting counter mechanic against stealth. Guardians could have “true seeing” which would give visibility through stealth for a short time. Necro could maybe cause revealed with the veil of doom. Warrior could reveal nearby stealthed players with “fear me”, that would make sense, etc.
Stealth does need some meaningful counter play. Currently there is none.
It always just seemed like a cowardly way to fight to me
If there is anything cowardly in this game, then it’s the zerger monkeys. Basically they feel they are entitled to stomp everything because they have numbers, and then when they can’t stomp a thief, they come here to cry for nerfs.
It would mean I could no longer remove boons with my shatter spec.
Meh, if you feel that shatter spec is too strong then just simply reduce it’s damage. Don’t fix whats not broken:
-shatter spec is fun to play as and it’s also intense to play against it. That’s not broken, don’t fix.
-some may think that the damage is too much. Fix if you think so.
I can’t count on how many of those I’ve stepped and still gotten away. :P
no one cares if you run
if you are running you arent doing anyone any harm youre just waisting your own time
Oh but if they don’t care, then why do they chase me across the map ? Many thieves out there, myself included, play the game to troll. I don’t destroy dolyaks unless someone is defending them, I never flip camps. (lol why would I care who owns them) I don’t even stomp you in most cases and I will not chase. But oh, I will troll you if you are one of the chaser monkeys!
This is not a small problem, and more players are abusing this petty childish, no counter, no-consequence, no-skill playstyle every day.
In this game the larger group has a ridiculous advantage over the smaller ones due to certain artificial rules. In addition the maps are very small and pale which makes it difficult to avoid groups. Thus everyone who likes to roam solo or duo is forced to play thief.
Mesmers are currently besides Elementalisst the only class, which can easily tank and spank against mulpple players and survive these situations for long time while watching you from far away dieing from the DoT condition spam, if you can’t quickly remove them and even by killing them quickly, you instantly get thrpough killign them healing conditions instantly back, as killing their clones leaves oftenly, if they skilled it a randomous condition, or their let them home in to you by using their shatter skills to CC you, while they have from far range enough tiem to quickly spam new clones to keep you busy with them.
Dude, do you realise that you just wrote a paragraph that consists of exactly 1 sentence? Really, if that’s the way you fight against mesmers, it’s no suprise it’s confusing.
WvWvW GW2 shouldn’t be taken so seriously and also this game isn’t balanced 1v1
Fixed for yah.
As for the topic, yes, 12k back stab is easily possible on even heavily armored targets who don’t have protection, but it does mean the thief has to run somewhat clumsy build that isn’t very suitable for roaming or 1vX. That’s why you don’t see such numbers very often.
By the way that data guy above me is obviously a rookie who doesn’t understand what separates a normal burst build and a thief burst build. Well suprise puprise, it’s the ability to deliver it from stealth.
@ Master of Timespace
If you like pretty skills, Play an Ele. I agree they are not the most exciting; the excitement from Mantras comes in the frantic responses of the opponent when they can’t figure out what’s happening.
I respectfully disagree that they are simple on the grounds that you must be very careful about usage. As Pyroathiest pointed out, the major weakness of Mantras is the Charge time. In my opinion they require a lot more focus and attention than say a shatter cat or Glamour bomber.
They are still simple and one dimensional even if they are clumsy due to the charge time. You know, like a club. It’s difficult to beat anyone with a club because it’s so slow and clumsy, but that doesn’t somehow make the club an interesting and smart weapon.
The “phantasms and run” kiting bs sure is lame. In duels you often declare a relatively small area where the duel is supposed to happen, and leaving it is considered as yelding. That’s how I like it anyway, keeps the match intense and prevents gimmicky kiting tactics.
But if you want to do that kiting crap, then you must allow the other player to do it as well. Have fun playing against perma stealth thieves who literally run to the mountains and come back stab you after 5 minutes. Then if they don’t get ya, they run again, so it’s draw at best since phant mesmer doesn’t have quick enough burst.
if you nerf phantasm builds, then mesmers in pve get hit badly even more than they had already been hit with the last patch. So before blurting something out, think a little bit.
Lol you can simply separate pvp and pve as already has been done some 10000 times.
Agree that the speeding up the auto-attack would be awesome.
No it wouldn’t. It would merely perhaps make it worthwhile to use it at some random moments. Even if they’d speed it up by 100%, it would still be weak.
Also, I made a note in the other scepter thread about getting 4000 damage on some scepter blocks.
The block skill is fairly useful because of it’s damage. But it’s also the only reason one should ever use scepter. Sword has stronger auto attack, better defense and more utility (stun break, teleport, short cripple and immobilize). It has even boon removal. It’s a good and interesting weapon. Scepter however, perhaps somewhat ironically, is the dumb and clumsy ogre club.
For instance, you could have mentioned how to use the scepter effectively, using several conditions on clone death to wrack up conditions quickly while also providing a quick and constant resource of clones.
But this is just pure bull kitten as well. In any REAL fight you do NOT have time to use scepter auto attack.
I don’t play because the conquest mode is boring as kitten. And also because there is no rewards or anything fun in winning or playing… You get pvp skins and thats it. In gw1 you could at least use faction to buy zkeys and sell them for semi good profits.
If they’d change that #3 to be similiar melee skill like the engineer confusion skill, then maybe scepter would be a fun weapon. Currently its so clumsy and painfully annoying to use. And that auto attack… Unless if you are fighting ugh, I don’t know what, a stone maybe? Well unless you are fighting against that stone you don’t have time to use it at all.
But how would you know that that person is actually a spy? There will always be spies. Real spies won’t do or say much so how would you be able to spot them? I agree that it is unfair but it is what it is.
That’s the beauty of it. I’m not saying someone should be labelled “spy”. What I am saying is that each individual should be able to block someone, with the aforementioned features.
The argument isn’t whether or not X is a spy, the argument is what happens when you block someone.
And I’m 99% sure there is a guy live-streaming our WvW. No, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t feel comfortable letting that person see everything that I do. I just believe I personally should be able to block anyone who I think even might be a spy. As a prominent commander in my world, it would put my mind slightly more at ease when speaking in Team or Map chat as well as even being tagged up.
You are taking this game way too seriously… I’d feel flattered if someone would broadcast my WvW, and even more so if someone’d bother to watch it xD
Shadow’s Embrace trait (condition removal in stealth): way overpowered because it almost makes thief immune to condition damage but I can’t think of how to nerf it without overnerfing.
Move it to Grandmaster tier where it belongs so that it’s onpair with the condition removal traits other classes have.
Now, thief can be fairly good in large scale battles. In the older zerg fights where the zerg was spread out and there was no skill lag, thief was very useful. In the current retarted blobbing meta thief isn’t as useful but meh, who really gives a kitten about that “stack & spam” crap?
They should fix the meta somehow, not thief.
By the way, I find it hilarious that so many people here who rolled the rogue class except to be as good in the open, large scale warfare as warriors xD. Seriously, if you like that kitten so much why don’t you just roll a lvl 1 warrior ? Get the best green / blue gear & trinkets and then the upscaling takes all your stats to 2500. Then you are probably the best #1 spammer that there can be.
My point? That the problem isn’t in thief, it’s in the broken WvW meta that is the result of pve level downed state, aoe cap, plain and small maps, shared rewards and other bad design choices.
I fiquired out why you have those black things near your utils! You are 3 signet warrior and afraid to show it! But that’s all right, 5 signet warriors are the ones who should be ashamed.
What are you talking about double click nonsense? That’s not the reason the delay was added. It was added to slightly nerf the skill, which was before a little too strong. Instant area pull to a desired direction on a relatively low cool down.
If that’s true, then the 1 second delay is a lot larger of a nerf than was likely intended. The skill wasn’t that powerful to begin with due to the fact that the lip of a wall, a pebble, anything would interrupt the pull… now people are easily dodging away before the second half can even fire off. A quarter second gives the alert time to react yet would leave the skill still useful in WvW.
Think you are actually right. Now its a little bit too weak as an interrupt.
It’s an utility skill. It’s used to “combat” hostile environment such as walls. It’s one of the few skills that actually has some creative uses. I don’t see anything wrong with it, but there are always people who find creative tricks as cheats.
Seriously, if you want to truly abuse jumping puzzles, log your alts near the chest and then log in the next day to loot it.
Oh and you can use it to bypass the stones of the cof p1? Really, its a cheat now because it makes the dungeon go faster? Well is it also a cheat to stack 100 blades warriors and a bs / pw thief to take the bosses down in matter of seconds?
Or what about 5 guards with their boon spam to trivialise the whole dungeon so that you can watch Emmerdale while doing it?
Again, some people think that portal is a cheat because its a tool used to creatively combat the environment instead of being another mindless damage skill to paint red progress bars into black faster.
Thief has a trait that purges the cripple when they dodge.
Is that a normal trait choice for WvW thieves?
Thx.
Hardly anybody uses that. It’s just not that useful when you already remove conditions fairly well in stealth.
After doing that I’ve yet to see more than 2-3 people who still complained about thieves once they’ve learned the class inside out.
Hey, add me to that list. Yea, I dare to argue I know enough about the thief given how much I play my thief. This game isn’t Rocket Science. I also know plenty of good thieves who think d/p crap is ridiculous.
Many thieves out there, myself included, play the game to troll. I don’t destroy dolyaks unless someone is defending them, I never flip camps. (lol why would I care who owns them) I don’t even stomp you in most cases and I will not chase. But oh, I will troll you if you are one of the chaser monkeys!