@OP. You make me lol. In fact, WvW has been way more popular than the devs imagined. They originally thought everyone was going to want to play PvP, but that proved incorrect.
Some of us actually like to zerg. There is nothing better than seeing 20 v 20 on a battlefield. If that is not enjoyable to you, that’s fine. Try PvP or solo a zerg with an arrow cart.
Rifle warrior is a viable counter against the stealth spam thieves, like someone already mentioned. Against 2.5k armor rifle burst hits 15k+ and volley will then finish the job.
However, if played right, d/p can maintain pernament stealth and then even that doesn’t work as you can never target the thief. That set is very cheesy and really needs a tune down.
Balance only exist for the competitively egotistical players to stop crying about fairness.
Inbalance destroys variety and thats the general reason why it is avoided. If warrior had 100k hp warriors would still have even fights between each other, but you wouldn’t see many other professions out there. Would be quite dull.
So does nobody use flanking strike, then wait for a clear opportunity to use larcenous strike? Because the 5(?) second window you have to use it sort of encourages that tactic, rather than just mashing 3 twice.
I ask because I’ve seen it implied a few times that LS is actually easy to dodge / bait because FS telegraphs it, but… Strictly speaking, it doesn’t. You can do a couple things between FS & LS.
I certainly do that. There is almost no reason at all to chain them.
Then isn’t that a bad animation design on Anet’s part? Blurred Frenzy, Pistol whip, Warrior 1h sword profession skill are all literally the same. Every sword auto attacks are the same in every profession.
Mhmm, but this doesn’t cause confusion because well, at least I’m yet to see a warrior using Blurred Frenzy and mesmer using Pistol Whip. They also have unique particle effects.
Now if say Brutal Shot and Kill Shot had the same animation, that’d be annoying.
Anyone who thinks Thieves are overpowered are either extremely bad, or braindead.
Lets consider this:
pve – potentially the worst class in the game
pvp – very little play and good at ganking people who are glass cannon-ish or bad
wvw – pretty much roamers and scouts. This is the majority of my gameplay as a thief, I also have an 80 warrior, ele, guardian, and mesmer.
Guardian – super tanky and can achieve decent dps with amazing survivability, blast finishers, and group support. Also can roflstomp a thief in 1v1 1 handed while sipping a kittentail and chatting with your mother on the phone depending on their weapon selection (traits don’t even matter if you know what you’re doing).
Mesmer – the only class in the game that has probably seen the nerf bat as bad if not worse than the thief. at least they have good group utility with time warp portal null field and feedback. Still feel bad for my mesmer friends
Warrior – extremely vanilla but can still stomp a thief like nobodies business, especially if your pvt.
Ele – D/D got nerfed but rightfully so, do-it-all builds that are THAT strong need a nerf. Staff ele still has amazing group support via combo fields, heals, siege situations, and general gameplay, just kinda boring imo.
Thieves are forced to be either 1 of 2 things in wvw – a super scout with massive survivability and mobility where you get no bags and feel like some 8 yearold birthday party clown, and/or pistol dagger sleepfest, or you go massive burst, sacrifice EVERYTHING to do so, and fail 1/2 the time at what you’ve worked so hard to get, and get CRUSHED in zerg fights
Enough of this bs crying about stealth. Thieves are slippery? It ran away? Great. your still alive and just mildly frustrated. Deal with it. roll a necro and be the flavor of the month op wvw class like everybody else or gtfo. Thief was DESIGNED by their trait line to obtain massive dps through raw crit chance and overall damage buffs, and were nerfed according to people who play these classes so badly that if a thief were to play say pvt gear or knights or any survivable set, they would be doing far less dps than other classes that don’t have the lowest health pool and medium armor AND still have no group synergy. Class is bad as it stands. Play one before you kitten, learn their weaknesses and youll never have a problem with them in wvw.
TL:DR – If you think thieves are OP you don’t play one or you’re bad at the game. Thanks.
Scared our troll class might be fixed? lel. Seriously i play thief ask anyone on underworld, As my op pic proves. Its op as kitten in wvw, no challenge to play, i’m not saying i’m amazing, but i like to think i’m pretty good, and my opponents arent scaled nubs, they know how to play. all i want is for anet to make the class hard to play.. make it so we can be de-stealthed by aoe (but no reveal buff) or something, nerf our damage a little, i really don’t mind, just make the class a kitten challenge to both play and fight against.
tl;dr thief is not challenging to play. (1k hours on one, i know)
ITT thieves crying that one of their own admits its kitten op in wvw.
Seriously..
Hiya!
What server are you on? Can we duel a few times and show me how easy it is to play? I mean, I have over 1500 hours but at least to me it is not easy at all. Maybe I’m doing something wrong.
So, please let me know what server you’re on and I’ll transfer and we can duel. How about a small wager of 250g for best 2 out of 3?
Well which class are you planning on using to beat his thief ? Surely not another thief? Winning a thief vs. thief doesn’t show anything about how easy it is to play a thief, after all. I also hope its not some gimmick thats designed to only work against a thief.
Obv the “you can dodge” argument is not valid in the case of thieves since they can spam the exact same skill. But what happened to the unique-ness of Sigils, Runes, and foods? What about all that CCing other classes bring to the table that thieves lack?
If I was Anet, I would implement another “counter” to stealth as a kind of area effect….
…Also I would make a tower upgrade that partly reveals stealth in an area arround the tower. Like Deniara Devious suggested. The stealthed character would appear as a s transparent shimmer within the area….
I will speak on behalf of the thief as my main is one. A thief will not survive an aoe barrage because it has the lowest hp, toughness, survivability of ALL of the warrior classes. They do this because to survive is to eliminate the target before it has a chance to eliminate you. High, fast dps. So unless you’re also suggesting that ANet ups the stats of the thief….
Once again someone is frustrated about a certain tactic so it’s off to the forums to….. The point in fact is we all deal with this. Why can’t they adapt and overcome? Why do they look for the easy way out by changing the “rules”? I’m curious as to how the original programmers feel about their efforts going to kitten in a hand basket.
Actually there exists next to no counters against a d/p thief who knows what he is doing. Even full bunker d/d ele or guard is generally easier to beat.
No one is god-awful, it is just that YOU may think he is.
If someone is AFK, you waste your time writing in the chat
“Such “insults” you refer to happen ALL THE TIME”
So what? Murdering happens all the time as well, should it be allowed due to that?
Fortunately a lot are caught, every caught one is a gain, unfortunately not all are caught.
So now we have some lighthead comparing murdering to swearing in an online game xDD.
I really only play p/d nowdays but I carry sword as an escape tool and to bait stuns. Sometimes I also use #3. Even if I do no damage, it’s quite hilarious to steal all their boons by spamming 1 button. xD
Judging by your screenshot you spend a lot of time in WvW but close to zero time in PvP.
Allow stealthed characters to contest points in spvp, and then thief is excellent in spvp. The one and only reason why thief is weak in spvp is this artificial nerf against it.
You’ve obviously never seen a good S/D Evade master bunker a point.
Sure have. But only because the “stealth bunker” can’t contest a point.
That said, I think you missed the point: people argue that thief can’t be very powerful in wvw because its weak in spvp. I claim that if thief is weak in spvp, then that is only because they can’t contest a point while in stealth.
Judging by your screenshot you spend a lot of time in WvW but close to zero time in PvP.
Allow stealthed characters to contest points in spvp, and then thief is excellent in spvp. The one and only reason why thief is weak in spvp is this artificial nerf against it.
If you want tomorrow i can see again the video, and comment the points. No big deal, just refearing to things like mesmers are not mobile, how you see the focus ( its damage is insane)
The focus phantasm is one of the weakest unless your opponent is akitten.
I’m excited just to see progress. Since this is about 3 months late by many of us.
For Badges, 500 per piece is pretty high. Builders, sentries, and yak whippers are quite valuable to the PPT. Yet, badges are NOT rewarded to those doing the dirty work. So let’s keep the pricing realistic!
Let’s also not attempt to price these for those whom Zerg’d 10+ hours a day on a necro or scepter guardian. People whom work and have kids and only play for 1-2 a day (normal folk) should be able to get these too. 500 badges a piece would then require 22,500 badges to gear all 5 characters across a standard account. That’s WAY too high.
There also should have been an advanced warning on this coming. Making the JP chest account bound, pushed us to start using badges for siege. Now adding this AFTERWARDS, is kinda swarmy. I’m certain some of us now wish they had the badges back.
Please, it doesn’t matter anyway when the price is 25 laurels and 100 badges, or something on those lines.
The thing that i wounder about when Reading on the forum is what game have you played when you complane that Arenanet is slow with updates? can not be WOW it took them 7 years to make it 3d, it cant be AOC they still havent fixed things that should be with when it was realiced, can not be SW-TOR so what game is it.
I’d just wish for some real WvW content and not just more progress bars. These WvW asecended gear are indeed just that. They don’t add anything new gameplay wise, just another empty goal to grind for.
anet dont listen to to this thread I have hardly had to leave wvw the past few months at all to do dailies at least 4/5 were done in wvw with hardly having to leave my guild group.
to the players complaining I wanna work for the gear I can get not have anet say here have free ascended cause you have 10,000 badges in the bank waiting for the day they did this.
Those complaining about laurels forget the WvW focus dailies we get. If you play a lot of WvW, you’ll get them without any extra effort.
Even though people don’t like it, Laurels is still a pseudo-gating tactic and encourages you to do activities beyond what you’d normally do. Need your last item… oh, a JP, I’ll go do that.
Nope, i don’t get laurels by only doing wvw stuff most of the time. And you only get one each day, which makes the game super-grindy. This is terrible game design. No-one enjoys it and no-one finds it fun. It’s just a chore.
And ascended are also soubound which even makes it more terrible for those who got multiple chars.
Grinding is the reason i leave mmo’s. But i haven’t found any mmo with a better combat system than GW2 yet. So i still play this game. And i’m hoping they will add some other stuff to keep ppl playing other than months of grinding for ascended.
All MMOs have grind in them. GW2 got rid of the mandatory grind. Everything in this game that had “grind” attached isn’t required to play the game. Are dailies required? No. Are Ascended gear required? No. For the longest time, I was WvWing with Exotic gear, which I crafted, purchased, or got as a chest drop.
Remember, all these Ascended gear for WvWing is a bonus. I’m glad the option is there to get stuff that’s only been available to PvE players.
No mmo has mandatory grind. After all you can for example run in circles without having to grind.
My policy is to accept all invites, report them if they are abusive and be polite and respectful when they are nice to you. I try to return any compliments that are offered as a gesture of good will. I’ve not had a case where someone that was contacting me to give negative feedback – didn’t also include a multitude of swear words. So everyone who was rude to me will have had a nice holiday (ban) away from GW2 to remind them it is just a game.
Lol good luck getting them banned for swearing xDD
There are people who are known to run constant hacks in WvW and no bans :P
Unless it’s gold selling, anet doesn’t give a kitten
Laurel are pretty easy to get in WvW. I would rather have ascended to cost less badges with laurel than a crazy high badge cost. If your guild is good at guild missions you can get ascended pretty quickly.
Yeah but who wants to pick up kittening carrots while doing WvW? It’s retarted.
Ascended items are not required outside FoTM. They are good to have, but not required, meaning there is no content that you cannot complete without them .In stark difference there is content in FoTM (lvl 48 as an example) that you CANNOT do without ascended gear. You will be one shot by an unblockable, undodgeable attack. So in fact you would be gating the content by gating the gear.
There is no content that you can’t complete with green magic find armor…
If I run over 2.5k defense I shouldn’t be able to be taken down in less than 20 seconds including my heal. Its ridiculous.
I totaly agree, if i run with my PTV set, 3600 defence , 27000 hp i should survive at least 10 minutes, against an thief, even if i af,k
Go back to WoW. Guild Wars isn’t a face tanking game.
The thieves job in WvW is all about ganking and harrassing reinforcements. Don’t be such a cry baby and learn to fight back.
not everybody played WoW with you in the kindergarden sir, i never played that game, however if i will need advices from you i will visit you in the kindergarden.
Right. Well then go back to the whatever game where you can just apparently just sit and win.
Yep, this trait line is op as kitten and any non-noob thief knows it. The main problem is that Shadow’s Embrace and Infusion of Shadow are both lvl 10 traits when they should be lvl 20. It’s really quite hilarious sometimes how carelessy this game is designed. Look at the shadow arts trait line :
lvl 10Trait: Remove one condition every 3 seconds while in stealth.
lvl 20 Trait: Shortbow and harpoon gun damage is increased by 5%.
Also
lvl 20 trait: Regain 1 initiative every full 3 seconds in stealth.
lvl 10 trait: Gain 2 initative whenever doing something that stealths you.
It doesn’t take a scientist to tell that the latter is strictly better xD.
Seems like good chances and updates to me. I don’t really like the idea of having to stock pile laurels though. I prefer to use mine on the random boosts and items, hoarding them is ugh, so dull. Nah, I don’t change that because of the update.
What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.
If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:
“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”
This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.
Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.
I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.
Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.
Do you realize that most people (or small groups for that matter), don’t like that type of disadvantage in WvW? Sorry but that group outnumbers yours. As many have said before, you could just L2P when the time comes.
Too many people bringing to light the problems with the thief class. It’s going to be changed whether you like it or not.
What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should). This could effectively ruin stealth as long as rangers are around. This to me the most likely change that’s going to happen, seeing as ranger pets need buffs and what’s more fitting than to have some pets just auto-detect stealth..
Question is, when that happens.. what are you going to do? L2P or QQ?
lol
“What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should)”
obvious troll is obvious.
They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so.
That’s not really an argument, it’s just a typical cognitive bias to think that something is worth continuing because you have spent time and effort on it.
Not that I think stealth should be removed. It’s effective tool against the omnipotence of zergs.
What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.
If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:
“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”
This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.
Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.
I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.
Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.
What a pathetic attempt in trying to force people to use the item mall xD
People want real content like new maps, not money milking “pay $$ to access bank fast” bull crap.
Ever heared of the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait? It guarantees large hp regeneration everytime a thief uses stealth. The effect is: each stealth skill becomes a healing skill and since 95% of thieves use perma-stelath builds, most of them also theoretically can have perma-regeneration.
But hey, why am i writing this. The part about the weakest healing was supposed to be a joke for sure.
Only if you trait for it. Pretty sure it is a 30 point trait, but I could be wrong and it may be a 20 point trait.
Just because it is possible, doesn’t mean it has the best because some builds may go for it but otherwise, thief healing isn’t very good.
If it was that good, everyone would fit it in their build. There are several options in that particular line that are quite nice to have and you cannot fit them all in.
The joke is you people cherry picking one option out of all available and claiming that they have excellent healing.
If you don’t have 30 points in shadow arts, you are doing it wrong. :P
the problem i see with this argument… “make this class a smart class”
how do you buff stupid people enough to beat smart people without nerfing stupid people that play mesmers.
the problem is that anet looks at the strongest potential of a class and compares that to the worst players of another class and nerfs to balance that.
confusion wasnt killing good players. and good players were balanced vs confusion specs. same with thief stealth. but it killed alot of dummies. so it got nerfed.
it should be balanced around the best players of each class. if they can go back and forth evenly with even skill they are balanced.
they should balance the class based on thier potential and make people who suck strive for that potential to be balanced vs the best of another profession. but they tone down the top end to make crappers comparable to the best geared/played.
Could not agree with you more, however ANet focuses on the mainstream so that might never happen. The need of the many outweighs the need of the few, even if that need is really stupid. This is the history of humanity basically bro.
Its shooting yourself to the leg. Eventually the noobs become veterans and leave because they find the game shallow.
personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp
Pve is that way —-—->
Wvw IS pvp, or at least should be pvp. This game mode has a lot of potential and the devs should realize that.
Oh btw zerg fights are not even pve. I mean in dungeons you have to use teamplay and often dodge at the right time etc, it’s not a button smashing at all. So my logical deduction is you don’t even like pve…
I think he means that he doesn’t want WvW to turn into that corny nerdsports crap.
It’s up to you. Sometimes people just want to ask simple things like what’s your build . But if you are really so sensitive (rolls eyes) that you let random dudes in the internets insult you, well then just decline.
A good thief will always shadowstep and disengage. So it will be a draw.
Breaking aggro is considered a loss in duels. It also makes everyone in the fight club laugh at you.
I have seen very good thieves dying against quite newbie bunker eles. They just can’t damage the ele enough and the ele will eventually wore the thief down.
These are of course staged duels. In the open thief can naturally disengage, but I think most of them avoid bunker eles in the first place.
How big deal it is that a thief runs away, well I don’t know. There is nothing to gain / lose anyway.
It was never removed. I think it’s intended that a thief can attempt to hide in a tower / keep. It adds a little more depth to the currently somewhat shallow wvw experience. If this bothers you, use stealth traps to reveal the thief.
It needs some tuning. It’s not really fine that the enemy zerg gets rallied because 1 random green arrow died. I feel that I can’t bring my upscale warrior to zerg warfare because he dies too easily and is so helping the enemy.
Ressing speed could also use a small nerf. It’s currently faster than stomping even if only 1 person is ressing.
I and a guard met a P/D apothecary geared thief in wvw… and I kid you not, this build is impossible to win against 1v1/2v1. We didn’t lose(stalemate), but we were pressured. 1v1 he would have won. I don’t see it being of much use in larger fights, or even for taking objectives. I have tried full carrion… But direct damage seems to work better in most cases.
I think it actually loses to some condition engineers, some d/d eles, and in addition to phant specced glass mesmers.
.