What are you talking about double click nonsense? That’s not the reason the delay was added. It was added to slightly nerf the skill, which was before a little too strong. Instant area pull to a desired direction on a relatively low cool down.
Go full bunker d/d like every pro ele and it’s unlikely the thief has enough damage to get you down. But no, you can’t take him either unless if you have a group or he plays very badly.
d/p stealth on demand crap needs to be tuned. That’s the first thing. Then if thieves still seem to powerful, reduce their damage so that they are balanced. Alternatively you could tune backstab so that it can no longer be “spammed till it hits”. No other changes are needed me thinks.
The cloack and dagger spam is easily countered via the “3 seconds rule”. It’s the same rule that applies to bosses of pve.
Lol my post got deleted. Apparently I can’t say those kind of stuff. But really ? They are going to give me infraction points. But not ban hackers? This makes me want to punch a baby in the face.
Yep. They prefer to give infraction to people talking about releveant subjects in the forums, instead of banning hackers. Cute, isn’t it?
Since this game has no anti hack, hacking is very common especially in WvW.
It also suggests that something like the Trinity is natural to MMO’s and will develop on its own if allowed to.
No. This game just isn’t that differend from a typical “trinity mmo”. It merely claims to be so. You don’t have trinity say in Runescape because that’s an old game (at least not back then when I played it). Eve online, well I don’t think that has trinity either, at least not in the same sense as here or in other mmos? Anyway, in almost every post-wow mmo you have it.
Pfft. Well then make downed state so that you also can’t spam #1 to “stomp” someone. Removing stealth stomp == more power for zergs and nothing else.
I don’t understand why so many people here think that having more numbers should be an automatic win. Why should stomping while being greatly outmanned be next to impossible?
d/p stealth spam crap is what needs tuning, not stealth stomp.
From the OP:
“Yes, I know that they have to sacrifice a substantial amount of survivability to have such high burst damage, and that would be perfectly fine, if I could attack them. "
This times 1000.
I also ignore thieves, not because I’m afraid of getting killed, but because I know they’re going to stealth and disappear when they get low. There’s no point in wasting 5 min dorking around with a thief when really all we’re doing is waiting for a random zerg to appear and finish things one way or the other.
Perma stealth has gotta go.
perma stealth = perma not attacking. Zero threat level. Also. If a thief is permanently stealthed how do you know he is even there? Did the bushes rustle funny, Did you hear a snickering with nobody in sight?
It’s perma stealth AT WILL. Means, if thief goes low, he stealths until he has regained health.
I can link you videos on youtube of warriors doing 32k to 5 people at 1500 range with killshot, should they come whine about how op warrior is?
Condition duration reduction is OP because of how the math works. 50% increase in duration isn’t just canceled by -50% duration.
Say I have a 4 second bleed. I have +50% condition duration. It’s up to 6. The other person has -50% condition duration. It’s down to 3 now. It not only counters it, but then reduces it even more.
Because of how the math is… a build that has a 33% condition duration trait (like dogged march) plus 25% from runes (Melandru) and then 40% from Lemongrass… for a total of 98% condition duration reduction… is nearly immune to certain conditions… permanently… and 65% for the rest.
Lets do the math on 100% duration vs 98% reduction now… 4s chill becomes 8s. 98% reduction means it lasts 0.16 seconds.
For condition damage you’ll also need to factor in the damage loss to include the partial seconds that remain as they tick every 1 second (a 3.9 second burn does the same damage as a 3 second burn because there are still only 3 ticks of burn applied).
The more you stack -condition duration the more obvious how messed up the calculations on it become.
Seriously… the eng trait is the LEAST of the problems for conditions in WvW right now.
I suggest you do your research before you post false information.
-50% is canceled by +50% Game uses additive scaling.
if a condition was to last 4 seconds, and you had +50% condition duration it would be increased to 6 seconds.
If a condition was to last 4 seconds and your opponent had -50% condition duration it would last 2 seconds
If a condition was to last 4 seconds and you had +50% condition duration and your opponent had -50% condition duration it will last 4 seconds.
Please test it out before you come on the forum and make a long winded response with factually incorrect information.
Then why my +50% condition lasts 0 seconds (just says immune) on an Engineer using the trait? Should last 50% by that logic. Perhaps that trait works in a differend way. Or perhaps those engineers carry some melandrus runes or something… Not a big deal. Condition bunkers need reliable counters anyway. Unlike direct damage builds, they need to maximise only one stat to have ridiculous, armor ignoring damage output.
It is not intended to kill people there. The area is meant to be a “safe area”. If you kill them they’ll have to pay repair cost. Also you can get loot. Killing them there could be exploiting/griefing.
Really? Well why aren’t they invulnerable there just like in starting areas of WvW?
The particle effects of the nades cause very high fps drop on lower end systems such as laptops. There should be an option to tune them down.
This makes playing or playing with nade engineers a pain.
Same thing happens with certain other skills, such as the Blinding Powder of thief. Makes me wonder how incompetent effect designers Anet has : the effects don’t look very good compared to other games, yet they still consume massive amounts of resources.
backstab is the autoattack for dagger mainhand – with the prerequisite that the thief must be stealthed to pull it off. So since a miss (or apparently blocked attack) doesn’t reveal the thief, they can continue to auto-attack backstabs until one lands.
If thats the problem, make it like this: you stealth, you backstab and miss, you are stuck with autoattack for 3 seconds. There, fixed! You can’t dodge that one anymore via the “but then thief can’t autoattack while in stealth!11” crap.
They just need to tune down the ressing speed and it’s fine. The pve ressing speed thats meant for fighting bosses that hit ridiculously hard, does not fit into wvw. Rallying should be tuned somehow as well.
Yep, this is one of my favorite things to do haha makes thieves so mad.
Also, if they drop those other fields they use to stealth in and out of (I forget the name of the skill), just go stand in them. Chances are the thief will hit you and be de-stealthed
Not all thieves are zerkers, im more than able to run p/d + SB blackpowder + HS and backstab most people into the ground.. the only people i have problems with are mesmers who just spam clones and run away without trying to fight, anyone saying perma stealth is easy try throwing down 4-5 heartseekers without macroing anything through blackpowder during a fight and see how well you do.
You only need 3 and then you can compensate with utils though In a fight 1 or 2 is also enough unless you for some reason want to sit in stealths.
And very few thieves are full zergers. Thief can run for example valkyrie gear very well since they get 100% critical chance with their burst skill. In fact, unless if you want to farm cof p1, I don’t see any reason you would want to go full zerger as a thief.
I’m certainly there just to fight players and screw around. I never bother destroying dolyaks unless there is someone escorting them. Seems pointless and there just isn’t anything for me in it.
Do damage numbers appear in your combat log if you hit someone in stealth?
No, but if it is a chain attack, you will notice the chain progress. Also, if the skill has a visual effect that takes place on the target (most noticeable is ranger’s entangle, which leaves binding roots on the target) it will appear where the thief is, letting you know where the thief was when that skill hit the thief.
99.9999% sure that they do show up in the combat log.
hits don’t show up in the combat log when you hit a stealthed enemy, iv’e tried it before when trying to fight some perma stealth thief, and no standing in the blind field will not get you hit by their heartseeker, especially if they have the speed signet and the trait to give 50% more speed in stealth and since heartseeker is a leap its affected by it.
they’ll just jump right past you and not to mention the mobility they have means you’ll need another theif just to have a chance to get to the blind field in time, and even if he does hit you all he has to do is evade and pop shadow refuge or the heartseeker spam over the blind field again.
i have 6 accounts including a thief and i have never, ever hit something mid leap with the heartseeker, and the middle of the blind field is “mid leap”
when its said you hit somebody mid leap…. i think its when you jump from point a to point b there is a guy right between them even tho you jump past him you still hit him as you land on point b. this is quite common and happens to me all the time. if i stand in BPS you will break their invis withing 2.5 seconds guaranteed unless they use a heal/utility. also swing wildly inside of it :P
It doesn’t hit. I have played d/p enough to tell you can fairly easily avoid hitting someone who stands in the field, even if it slighlty slows down the stealth chaining process. And I’m not a very good d/p thief. Anyway, often I just backstab those who stand in the blind field.
Dueling is implemented, theres a lot of custom arenas in PvP strictly for dueling.
Unfortunately grieving isn’t implemented in pvp, that’s only in wvw when a straggler runs into a camper’s area. Thieves don’t take kindly to trespassing, grieving you is your toll.
Because ten zerger monkeys chasing that 1 upscale half the map is better.
Grind wars 1 was a lot worse so better not complain, it toke the 1st person 7 years to reach dragon rank, in Grind wars 2 in couple more months 1-3 people that I’ve seen have chance to reach dragon rank if they stay dedicated (highest rank now is 69 that I’ve seen in PvP, 11 more ranks!!)
By that logic you might as well call Microsoft Pinball 2000 a “Grind Ball 2000” since it has no cap in the amount of points you can get.
What we are talking about here is that the game allows you to grind for rewards that give signifigant advantage over other players. Also known as “Grind to Win”. Hell, I’d rather have them selling 33% damage boosters in the Item Mall than this crap.
Put Torment on Counterspell. Put AoE Blind on iCounter.
Fixed Torment and Scepter for you Anet.
Dear Lord no. Counterspell is so easy to avoid even unintentionally. IIRC it is as slow as WoC but doesn’t home.
I like it just fine on Block. Instead of thinking of it as punishing enemies for running away, think of it as punishing enemies for chasing after you.
I ran a 1850 condi spec tonight and Torment would take a thief from 100-25 before they knew what was what. It scales very very well with condi.
If you’re not going rabid or carrion though I would not use scepter. Scepter IS torment now. The confusion on it is still only ok because of it’s slow charge up time. The double clone proccing I’m sure will be patched away soon.
It’s useless anyway, that double clone bug. In a decent fight it’s still not worth it to waste time on the otherwise utterly useless scepter autoattack. Why can’t scepter have decent #1 like necro scepter? Why does it has to be this illogical piece of crap from the alpha build of the game?
Even speeding it up by 100% is not going to make it useful. It should be reworked from the ground.
This is going to be nice seeing all of the fair weather Mesmers loudly taking their bandwagon boat home.
This is a game played for recreation in people’s free time. It is not a job, it is not a religion, heck, it’s not even like rooting for your local sports franchise, as games are mostly non-territorial. We are all fair weather gamers. If a better game came along or if this one isn’t fun anymore you quit.
If the game isn’t fun and you don’t quit, you may have a problem.
Moving to a profession that is more fun to play is (from this perspective) same as moving to another game.
I used to roam as a mesmer a lot in WvW. But the day I rolled my thief, well, that’s the day I rerolled. :P
Even if my thief isn’t as interesting in the fight itself, it’s simply so much better in most 1vX situations, and I can push it alot harder because I know I can reset quite well. It also makes moving around the field a lot less frustrating.
they didn’t break shatter build they make it the only way to go or yeah let’s try to interrupt everything… they forgot though they created defiant also…
They also forgot this rookie friendly feature: if you interrupt a skill, it recharges back in 5 seconds. Was quite differend story in gw1… Dshot and the skill took an EXTRA 20 seconds to recharge.
But what can you except. There are exactly 3 devs working on gw2 that were also working for gw1.
Meh, how unfortunate. Well, I only use my mesmer for pve and duels anymore anyway, and was also getting bored of the offensive shatter spec in duels as well. It was so weak against good thieves. Quess the minor scepter buff makes my old confusion shatter a little more viable.
Who cares ?
I don’t get it. If you die the other player was better. Plain and simple. Who cares what he used ? He outplayed you. One should use all means necessary to beat his opponent. This is war.
Any and all means? Really, you don’t complain when I take that tower via “res through the door” – trick, fly hack or whatever? It’s not war, it’s a game and games have rules. The rules of a duel are up to the two players fighting.
I don’t always complain about shadow refuge because it seems most of the thieves can’t duel at all without it, but if I get moaed, well then I might a little.
My warrior with 20k-30k+ crits from range of 1500, approves this change. My thief likes it too.
No, instead of removing downed they should probably tune it so that stomping is generally faster than ressing. The PvE speed ressing in WvW just makes no sense. Currently even 1 player resses faster than one can stomp without quickness.
Good groups use downstate as advantage, rally allies and use coordination to spike downed enemies.
Guild zergs groups yeah, but its pain for people who like small skirmishes over spam fests.
Unfortunately my thief has both extreme mobility and perma stealth xD
But you probably can’t kill anyone.
Oh I sure can. It’s a p/d thief, so it suffers the natural drawbacks of all condition builds though, that is, it isn’t able to burst. But, it is also tanky and can dodge forever.
Well actually my burst thief has fairly excellent mobility and perma stealth via cloack and dagger spam, as well. But in turn it can’t dodge forever and nor is it very tanky.
Really perma stealth isn’t special for thieves. All it takes is x/D or D/P and 15 points in shadow arts to get essential perma stealth. Gods sake, roll a thief and try it in spvp lobby.
Blurred frenzy damage is moderate in any build with passive defence – I do not understand the complaints about this skill.
Its not the damage people complain about. Its the fact that with this one skill alone, you have invulnerability 20% (25% when traited) of the time in any fight.
I am more than happy if they replace it with warriors whirling attack.
Permastealth builds are stealthed for 4 seconds (3.5~) before C&D’ing back into stealth, so either you overlooked this, or don’t understand the mechanics. Either way, it wouldn’t do kitten, and would only nerf Shadow Refuge’s initiative regeneration side effect.
Thought I made it clear, but I’m referring this change into the D/P weapon set where you can drop the smoke field and do 3~4 Heartseekers in it (each costs 1 initiative each due to the trait) and thus attaining a “permanent stealth”.
x/D gameplay really shouldn’t be affected, thanks for the input on SR.
That isn’t what permastealth is, though, even if you “made it clear”. Don’t twist definitions. You shouldn’t misuse terms.
What? It d/p sure can permastealth in every sense of the word.
It doesn’t yield anything, unlike C/D every 2.5/3.5 which does in fact deal damage. That’s the major difference. Why the **** would anyone complain about heartseeking through black powder? If you miss heartseeker and hit someone by accident, you lose everything and your life. It makes no sense to post about this
d/p is better in wvw hands down. s/d cant get away from 5 people.
Nonsense, Sword/Dagger is excellent in getting away from trouble, in fact, I think it’s better than d/p when it comes to getting away (or even surfing!) enemy zergs.
I more so think Body Shot is one of the most useless Initiative drains I have ever seen.
I’m pretty sure that’s the worst skill of the game. I mean, other professions have
useless skills too, but that one is actually harmful to the thief as it wastes initiative.
Permastealth builds are stealthed for 4 seconds (3.5~) before C&D’ing back into stealth, so either you overlooked this, or don’t understand the mechanics. Either way, it wouldn’t do kitten, and would only nerf Shadow Refuge’s initiative regeneration side effect.
Thought I made it clear, but I’m referring this change into the D/P weapon set where you can drop the smoke field and do 3~4 Heartseekers in it (each costs 1 initiative each due to the trait) and thus attaining a “permanent stealth”.
x/D gameplay really shouldn’t be affected, thanks for the input on SR.
That isn’t what permastealth is, though, even if you “made it clear”. Don’t twist definitions. You shouldn’t misuse terms.
What? It d/p sure can permastealth in every sense of the word.
Having played high-mobility professions against stealth heavy thieves that don’t have a mobility advantage, it isn’t difficult to track, down, and kill them regardless of stealth.
Really? Well do explain me what you are going to do when I just spam cloack and dagger on the nearest forest animal? Will you start farming them with me, because that’s what people seem to do. Then when they get really desperate they use a stealth trap. Unfortunately my thief has both extreme mobility and perma stealth xD
Mesmer has a skill which is pretty much exactly the same and has a lower cooldown and is still a stunbreak.
Or the thief skill. Has longer cl of 50, but greater range of 1200, can be essentially used twice in a row, and cures conditions… I believe that CC spam is already more powerful than it should be. Removing stun breaks from defensive skills is going to make that worse.
I’m not really an ele player, but those nerfs are just over the top. Removing stun break from the only teleport ele has, seriously ? Same time buffing it’s entirely mariginal damage to marignal.. Ehh… yay ?
Removing stun break from lightning flash, our best defensive tool, is either going to be a massive nerf …or not so bad. If we still port, but stay stunned, not such a big deal. If we can’t port, or it goes on cool down when we try while stunned, it will be worthless and we will have lost our best defensive tool
It will function as you said. All instant cast skills work while stunned. However, I believe it is still bad. I would be so kitten ed if they did same to Shadow Step or Blink. As a mesmer I can for example, magic bullet => you teleport => I follow with blink & ileap + shatter combo. You can dodge the ileap because you are still in stuns.
Though, I quess you could remain from teleporting until I actually use ileap, but nevertheless, the nerf is really uncalled for.
ill give that. At least both traits are grandmaster….
Prismatic Understanding: This trait now pulses once every second while stealthed. This1 i dont get it, PU was allready a nice trait and now it will be awesome. I can almost smell prema protection….
Is that so special though? Plenty of classes already have it anyway, and one even has perma stealth. D;
I like the people who act like its impossible to have leaked notes of GW2 since the last big balance patch notes were leaked and turned out to be accurate lol
It has nothing to do with info leaks being impossible. It’s just that even Anet isn’t that bad at balancing. (I hope…)
Even Spreadsheet wars are better than a virtual Hopscotch.