Rather than remove the option to stack, how about you exercise your option to not stack?
Feel free to run around in circles around mobs and spam whatever range weapon you prefer. Just make sure to do it either when solo, or in groups specifically advertised for it:
“LFM AC Path 1. NO STACKING! Have at least 1 hour!”
Let me guess: LF3M ONLY WAR ZERK NO NOOBS is a good thing for the game.
Not really. If you’ve seen any of my guild’s dungeon run videos, you’ll see that we’ve moved past the 1mes/4war comps long ago.
Why though, when all you need to do is stack 4 warriors? Ironically ""LFM AC Path 1. NO STACKING! Have at least 1 hour!"" applies to this as well :P
Because it’s about choosing the option that is most optimal. Depending on the dungeon/path/fractal, we’ll always switch around our various alts as needed to make the run faster and easier.
Most optimal on what measure? If I can watch emmerdale while zooming through content, well I don’t think things can be more optimal than that. Perhaps there is a way to make the dungeon a few minutes faster by using some other comb. But that’s not worth it if it takes more effort.
Rather than remove the option to stack, how about you exercise your option to not stack?
Feel free to run around in circles around mobs and spam whatever range weapon you prefer. Just make sure to do it either when solo, or in groups specifically advertised for it:
“LFM AC Path 1. NO STACKING! Have at least 1 hour!”
Let me guess: LF3M ONLY WAR ZERK NO NOOBS is a good thing for the game.
Not really. If you’ve seen any of my guild’s dungeon run videos, you’ll see that we’ve moved past the 1mes/4war comps long ago.
Why though, when all you need to do is stack 4 warriors? Ironically ""LFM AC Path 1. NO STACKING! Have at least 1 hour!"" applies to this as well :P
I’d say you are best of taking both roll for initative and shadow step to your bar. Basically try something roll for ini => steal or sword 2 => cloack and dagger and get the kitten out
Isn’t any metagame more interesting when top builds need to adapt and splash a few new options onto their old builds to keep their viability? You know, where players feel forced to leave extreme builds and approach more balanced ones in order to not be hard-countered?
Condi-necros having to bring a few more power options would allow them to over-ride the inherent advantage of DS eles, at the cost of bringing a bit less condition spam to everything else, which indirectly would improve the metagame’s state.
Basically, with more hard-counters existing to fight extreme situations, buildcrafters would find it wiser to create more balanced builds, which in turn would lead to a more balanced, less extreme meta.
This, of course, is just a theory.
The most op builds aren’t even extreme. In Guild Wars 2, they tend to be builds that are good in everything, e.g. hambow, spirit ranger
You can quite often simply dps the thief though. For example, warrior whirlwind attack alone is often enough to 1 hit a thief. It’s your own fault if you play zero damage pvt clown though. Bunkers aren’t supposed to be able to chase thieves.
Why do I see ANet developers saying ,,We are working on it " acting like it would take so friggin’ long to remove the maps. Just disable them and be done with it.
This game’s pvp is in a very bad state. Why would anyone watch this mess? It’s really sorta hilarious that despite being a high budget AAA title with successful PR and there being excellent pvp in Guild Wars 1, this game’s pvp is plain trash and very unpopular. How is that even possible without someone kittening up pretty majorly?
Pin down needs a nerf more than anything. It is way too strong given its cast-time and skill recharge. It’s really hard to dodge (if its not random-dodged, its probably not dodged), and hits SO hard for what it does.
Not playing necro, its hard to say if dark pact should be buffed, especially since it isn’t a projectile that can be dodged.
In general, don’t compare your class to a warrior – it will always come out on bottom.
I’d agree with the projectile portion but the animation at least is VERY unique and obvious. Maybe not 1/2 cast but a 3/4 would be better than the full second cast, but due to the niche of the dagger, it really does need more range on the Dark pact. Dagger is a single target only (no cleave) melee weapon on a light armor class with the least amount of evades/defenses and a niche that’s supposed to keep enemies from fleeing. I just feel it needs a range buff at the very least. I don’t need it to do much damage or anything just close gaps a little better.
Really. Are you a politician or something? You mention that necro has few evades and is a light armor class, but at the same time you “forgot” about the high base health and two health bars.
I don’t need it to do much damage or anything just close gaps a little better.
Of course not. You want this skill to be buffed so that your minion master build would be better.
I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….
While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.
Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.
both can be unacceptable one thing being op isn’t justified by something else being op.
Yes, of course. Just trying to point out that condition specs can deal compareable damage to zerker specs while still being very tanky. It’s not really that alone that’s problem with condi specs, it’s also that many condition procs are generally difficult (doom) or impossible (dhoomsfire) to avoid.
I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….
While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.
Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.
The thing is, it isn’t power damage that’s nasty. It is power, crit damage and precision damage together that’s nasty. But, this comes at the expense of defence, unlike condi damage.
They just can’t admit that “hard to catch” is a trash trait by desing? Nobody wants to be randomly teleported around. Why is this so difficult for them to understand? Really makes me wonder where they get these people…
People keep suggesting Dire, but I’m pretty sure somebody did the math and found that the measly survivability you get from the toughness is far outweighed by the increased attack capability gained by power. Trying to find the post now.
sorry mates, i liked the gw1 because that game was about skills. you needed 10 hours to max a character with full gear. your skins was basics, but maxed stats
you mean, sPvP, where this is achieved 5 minutes after character creation?
If you go to an MMO and expect it to not have a progression of some kind…then this might not be the genrer for you…. FPS might fit you better
In propechies it took longer to get max gear, but in every other campaing after that you would generally have max gear and level after leaving the noob island. Even in propechies the max gear was cheap in the sense that it was trivial to gear up alts.
Once again, you do NOT know what true grind/armor difference is, if all you are complaining is about a piece you can literally get in 2 weeks and even without it you are on equal fighting level with your opponents then you are simply; spoiled.
But if that’s the case, then what’s the point of that gear? Oh, actually, I do know: it’s to have more progress bars for the barely sentient to fill.
just like you have people who gather every possible AP point, or people that do every possible JP, or people who explores every map on every chaarcter, or the people who have several alts, or people who play only WvW, etc etc etc…..
It is an style of play, an style that is not mutually exclusive from the others above mentioned. A person can have different likings. None is right, none is wrong. Nobody can dictate how you want to enjoy the game, just because it isnt fun to you doesnt mean it isnt fun for others. What did Anet do? Give thosepeople who want to feel like they are working for a better gear a mean to keep them busy and working on it, something they ( I also ) enjoy. How did they solve the problem of powercreeping? Simple; minimal stats increase.
People like me need long term goals to work towards too. We arent antisocials, we arent no lifers. I got a work, family, career, studies to take care of, yet I play. It took me a year and 4 months to get a legendary, long term, was fun because I did it with my guild while doing a bunch of activities (like map exploring, dungeons, guild events, crafting, make friends) which I enjoyed. I felt lost at that point, but the end result was fun. Now Im giving myself another oal, another legendary and armor for each character I own.
Is anyone is their right to judge me? Sure, it is up to you, at the end of the day your judgement matters little to nothing to me. It is my way of having fun. Im already playing at max since I’m not grinding for need but instead of giving myself a goal to achieve. It might be hard to comprehend for some people, but the implementation of Ascended by Anet was novel (though they could reduce some of the mats requirements, some of them are beyond crazy, like 250 Strong Blood and such….)
It is unfortunate though, that only the no-brain grinders and those who enjoy playing the “optimization” minigame called crafting, are rewarded. People like me who enjoy challenges and exploring, but dislike repeatitive and trivial content, are left with very few ways to obtain ascended gear.
Ironically those who’d need the ascended gear the most, that is, WvW players, have next to zero means to obtain them.
The real reason behind this seemingly nonsensical desing is the Item Mall: it is hoped that lots of people buy the gear through gems.
Once again, you do NOT know what true grind/armor difference is, if all you are complaining is about a piece you can literally get in 2 weeks and even without it you are on equal fighting level with your opponents then you are simply; spoiled.
But if that’s the case, then what’s the point of that gear? Oh, actually, I do know: it’s to have more progress bars for the barely sentient to fill.
In practice you always want at least one warrior for banners. (addional 25%+ party-wide damage)
An obvious example would just be buffs and debuffs. The majority of people do not even consider them and so a group of berserker whatever that maintains 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability will vastly outdamage a group that doesn’t consider it. Then you have unique support, no a warrior will not deal as much raw damage as other classes, but the banners and traits make them needed anyway.
Warriors are really good in this yes. A typical 1 mesmer, 4 warriors cof party would generally maintain both 25 might stacks (warbanners, gs trait) and 25 vuln stacks (on my mark).
It is working as intend. I think this trait is a little too weak. They should buff it to “You are immune to Stealth when your health reaches a certain threshold”
Even if the diamon skin will be a complete counter to the condition necro, it’s fine. This game uses rock paper scissor balancing (just like most mmos out there) and so such counters are indeed valid.
Really, stop crying that Build Wars happent in Guild Wars, and learn to deal with it.
Stealth trap is the only thing that I know of, that can do this.
Stealth trap is one of the 2 things in the game that targets and completely shuts down an entire class mechanic. The other being Sic’ em, both targeting thieves.
Aye but… We both know Sic’ em is useless :P. Even stealth trap is only really useful to smoke trolly thieves out of keeps.
And we both know it’s not about the actual effect, it’s about the precedent set and the possible effects. It’s silly to introduce a hard counter into a game that completely locks out a class mechanic and potentially 30 trait points targeted at 1 class, regardless how effective it is.
It’s extremely kittenty, lazy design, and it does not bode well. Which is exactly what I said when they introduced the anti-stealth trap, and everyone said “Well, its just in WvW”.
Stealth trap is the only thing that I know of, that can do this.
Stealth trap is one of the 2 things in the game that targets and completely shuts down an entire class mechanic. The other being Sic’ em, both targeting thieves.
Aye but… We both know Sic’ em is useless :P. Even stealth trap is only really useful to smoke trolly thieves out of keeps.
There’s nothing wrong with GW2 pvp in an MMO standpoint (except balance issues but theres balance issues anytime you have different playstyles involved). GW2 has one of the best MMO pvps as far as combat goes, which for some, may be a tough cookie to swallow, but its the truth.
If that was true, then 10+ year old games wouldn’t have more stream viewers. ;P You must be delusional if you believe spvp did not majorly flop.
Hambow war and spirit ranger top braindead cheese builds atm and condition/mm necro for second choice, even my grandma could be good playing those…and she’s dead…
Pretty much this. As far as playing “well”, of course some have larger skill ceilings than others. Condition necro has a decently high skill ceiling for 1v1 cause in 1v1 they can be killed pretty easy, while MM is great 1v1 but harder in team fights. Hambow is like… always a winner, spirits are kind of too, just not as bad as Hambow.
Only time I die to a hambow is if I got two on me or he has a bunch of team mates zerging around with him.
Cool. You know, my p/d thief also never dies to anything. He is still utterly useless in spvp.
Minion master is good in tPvP only if you’re a really god player. Otherwise you get CCed to death or AOE wrecked and there’s not much you can do about it. Plus you have to learn to time sacrifices, CCs etc, so its not real easy high tier, but it can be effective still. On the other hand, in low tier pvp/starting out, its pretty easy to get going with because it’s made to “facetank” and leech health rather than avoid it a lot (due to lack of vigor/evades/blocks) so not having to worry as much about dodging in low tier combat, it works in your favor.
Lol. MM takes skill xDDDDDDD
Well if you weren’t braindead, and played it in top 50 pvp (like I have, was rank 13 until I stopped playing conquest due to boredom) you’d might know what you’re talking about. LOL XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
You know, when they have things like spirit ranger in top 1 pvp, your argument doesn’t really carry out :P. There is no high level pvp in this game, only pub.
This games spvp is never going to reach any respectable level, and quite obviously Anet has realised this as well and hence they treat pvp as they do.
We told them but they dont care. They just think we are negative complainers. The reason everyone quit was:
1, Immunities
2, Passive play
3, Ai spam
4, Evasion spam
5. condi spam. But of course you would “forgot” to mention that.
Hambow war and spirit ranger top braindead cheese builds atm and condition/mm necro for second choice, even my grandma could be good playing those…and she’s dead…
Pretty much this. As far as playing “well”, of course some have larger skill ceilings than others. Condition necro has a decently high skill ceiling for 1v1 cause in 1v1 they can be killed pretty easy, while MM is great 1v1 but harder in team fights. Hambow is like… always a winner, spirits are kind of too, just not as bad as Hambow.
Only time I die to a hambow is if I got two on me or he has a bunch of team mates zerging around with him.
Cool. You know, my p/d thief also never dies to anything. He is still utterly useless in spvp.
Minion master is good in tPvP only if you’re a really god player. Otherwise you get CCed to death or AOE wrecked and there’s not much you can do about it. Plus you have to learn to time sacrifices, CCs etc, so its not real easy high tier, but it can be effective still. On the other hand, in low tier pvp/starting out, its pretty easy to get going with because it’s made to “facetank” and leech health rather than avoid it a lot (due to lack of vigor/evades/blocks) so not having to worry as much about dodging in low tier combat, it works in your favor.
Except the Mesmer has to have 3 illusions out at all times, as well as having to be dealing damage to get the heal. Eles and thieves already have the same thing.
Have fun making sure a pu mesmer doesn’t have 3 illusions up
This will make Warrior far superior in zerg fights. With all that damage, survability and utility whar it already have is no point start queueing with another class into Borderlands.. Now we know why they will make WXP account bound.
Warriors Vs Warriors Vs Warrios
Look at the WvW loading screen what do you see… I tried to find any other class in there. It’s always been part of the plan.
I think it’s the warbanner concept art…
If you look carefully, you can see one heavy at the background who is holding a staff, so there is at least one guardian. Then you can see the ele firestorm going on, so there has to be an ele or two. Conclusion: WvW working as intented.
Thieves are fairly popular still in WvW, at least where I play. (Gandara) Not as popular as warriors of course, but you see them often enough.
The next patch may change this though: it reduces cheese avaible for the thief without touching warrior or mesmer cheese too much (PU build is actually buffed), and people always go for the cheese.
To answer the OP: Mesmer clones and phantasms are external damage sources, just like Thieves guild, and therefore will not reveal the Mesmer. If external dps sources revealed you it would make stealth completely redundant for Mesmers and Thieves guild would screw Thieves over big time.
As for Throw Gunk, I suppose that technically it’s an AoE damage source coming from you and not an external source, which is probably why it reveals a Thief. There are lots of discrepancies with this sort of thing though, so it’s hard to be definitive.
so is null field? and so are thieves guild…. but they act differently? better for mesmer and worse for thief? why ?
How about you at least play mesmer before trolling? Null field deals zero damage and simply removes boons from foes and conditions from allies. 0/10.
i dont speak for the rest of the thieves out there only for myself by saying i think what irritate thieves the most is that mesmer has the ability to be stealth 30-40% up time of the fight which is like a thief (unique mechanism) and aslo able to do dmg from stealth with illusions while thief cannot
dont get me wrong i love thief and mesmer and both have unique mechanism and play style
what would you say if thieves had the ability to put 8 stacks of confusion on you (without perplexity) and ambush icd would be 10 seconds and doing dmg wouldnt revealed us
and all agree that thieves got thrown away to the far corner by anet
You are wrong. Stealth is not unique mechanism of thieves. Nor is confusion unique to mesmers or retalation to guardians.
Here, I draw you a picture:
Unique mechanics of thief: initative, steal, stealth attacks.
Unique mechanics of mesmer: clones, phantasms, shatters.
Unique mechanics of guardian: virtues.
Charasteristics of thief: stealth, evasion, teleports (shadowstep)…
Charasteristics of mesmer: teleports, stealth, confusion…
Charasteristics of guardian: blocks, retalation, aegis, burning…
to be fair mesmer has had nerfs patch after patch also and thiefs has alot better dps from mesmers espessaly PU mesmers who usealy have around 2,6k to 2,7k armor (it might be reason why your backstab hits so low) and abouth protection you can just run sword/dagger and rip boons I cant understand what the debate is abouth you compeare bunker build of one class to burst build of another? and let me clear f1 and f2 shatters reveal mesmers so does all aoe skills smart mesmer can stay in stealth for max 14 seconds straight after what they need to w8 for 10 seconds to go in again for 4 seconds than 12 seconds untill you can pop decoy again than another 12 seconds for next 4 seconds so basicly around 25% stealth during battle yea if you kill PU mesmer clones than L2p beacos it will hurt…
general tip stop attacking mesmer clones and you can fight PU mesmers
see its comments like that …that make me laugh. nobody knows what dps is. mesmers have higher dps than thieves…. why you ask ? lol ok …..lets define DPS. D is for damage….. P is for per…..S is for second. DAMAGE PER SECOND. how do we formulate DPS? its damage divided by total number of seconds. now when thieves enter stealth and evade we arent doing any dmg. and we do alot of evades and alot of stealth (both slightly more than a mesmer) …. on the other hand mesmer is doing dmg and conditions the whole time and has the same burst capability as a thief or close enough not to call it a noticeable difference(depending on build). so the entire time a thief is rolling around or walking around invis just so he can get his good hit….hes not doing dmg…which lowers his DPS…. now if he gets a 5k backstab in 10 seconds….thats 500 dmg per second. now the mesmer is constantly attacking for 1400 here 1700 there and every other second or so…. which is still alot higher than thief…bc hes able to do the dmg while in stealth and while evading…..
But does constant dps even matter? My thief has 10k+ dps, but only for 2 seconds. He can also perma stealth. That’s often all I need.
In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.
Exactly this.
so your thief does 20k dmg in 2 seconds?
This build has been here since betas, do you really need to ask?
30/30/10/0/0, d/d, d/p, scholar runes, sweet and spicy butternut squash soup, toxic sharpening stones, sigil of force. Air sigil is optional.
It isn’t uncommon to see mug 2k, c&d7k, sigil of air 2k, bs 10k+ with this build. Go ahead and try yourself. Light armor glass cannons are hit for around 15kbs.
to be fair mesmer has had nerfs patch after patch also and thiefs has alot better dps from mesmers espessaly PU mesmers who usealy have around 2,6k to 2,7k armor (it might be reason why your backstab hits so low) and abouth protection you can just run sword/dagger and rip boons I cant understand what the debate is abouth you compeare bunker build of one class to burst build of another? and let me clear f1 and f2 shatters reveal mesmers so does all aoe skills smart mesmer can stay in stealth for max 14 seconds straight after what they need to w8 for 10 seconds to go in again for 4 seconds than 12 seconds untill you can pop decoy again than another 12 seconds for next 4 seconds so basicly around 25% stealth during battle yea if you kill PU mesmer clones than L2p beacos it will hurt…
general tip stop attacking mesmer clones and you can fight PU mesmers
see its comments like that …that make me laugh. nobody knows what dps is. mesmers have higher dps than thieves…. why you ask ? lol ok …..lets define DPS. D is for damage….. P is for per…..S is for second. DAMAGE PER SECOND. how do we formulate DPS? its damage divided by total number of seconds. now when thieves enter stealth and evade we arent doing any dmg. and we do alot of evades and alot of stealth (both slightly more than a mesmer) …. on the other hand mesmer is doing dmg and conditions the whole time and has the same burst capability as a thief or close enough not to call it a noticeable difference(depending on build). so the entire time a thief is rolling around or walking around invis just so he can get his good hit….hes not doing dmg…which lowers his DPS…. now if he gets a 5k backstab in 10 seconds….thats 500 dmg per second. now the mesmer is constantly attacking for 1400 here 1700 there and every other second or so…. which is still alot higher than thief…bc hes able to do the dmg while in stealth and while evading…..
But does constant dps even matter? My thief has 10k+ dps, but only for 2 seconds. He can also perma stealth. That’s often all I need.
In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.
PU is a silly, semi-passive pet build no differend from the spirit ranger. I dare to argue most of the people running this cheese couldn’t pull a gc shatter.
no…stealth is both the same. enter stealth you are invisible. both stealths can be “revealed” but for thief its any dmg and mesmer only weapons dmg.
It is the same for both: only direct damage breaks stealth. Thief summons or condition fields don’t break stealth. Anyway, what you fought was a silly, cookie cutter duel build called the PU mesmer. The idea of PU mesmer is to spam phantasms (and clones for their traited death effect) and then just try to survive by running away and stealthing as much as possible. It’s both boring to play against and to play as, I don’t know why people bring these to duels.
if shatter doesnt break stealth then neither should cluster bomb. they are both explosions without targets. so…. u were saying? :P
Shatter is direct damage and does break stealth. Indeed, you can kitten up your stealth with shatter: use shatter => stealth => clone still running to target and shatters => you lose stealth. I think? Never really thought about it since I only play shatter builds that are equipped with iperson. Iperson creates shatter effect on you as well when you shatter, and that definitely breaks stealth.
The silly PU build you fought hardly ever shatters anyway. In fact, it probably never shatters for damage.
edit: to clarify, succesfully damaging target through shatters definitely should break stealth. If it doesn’t, well then that’s probably a bug.
if ur clone still running after you go stealth and it deals dmg it breaks stealth
Yes, that’s what I thought. But Travlane insisted this to not be the case, so I started to doubt myself.
no…stealth is both the same. enter stealth you are invisible. both stealths can be “revealed” but for thief its any dmg and mesmer only weapons dmg.
It is the same for both: only direct damage breaks stealth. Thief summons or condition fields don’t break stealth. Anyway, what you fought was a silly, cookie cutter duel build called the PU mesmer. The idea of PU mesmer is to spam phantasms (and clones for their traited death effect) and then just try to survive by running away and stealthing as much as possible. It’s both boring to play against and to play as, I don’t know why people bring these to duels.
if shatter doesnt break stealth then neither should cluster bomb. they are both explosions without targets. so…. u were saying? :P
Shatter is direct damage and does break stealth. Indeed, you can kitten up your stealth with shatter: use shatter => stealth => clone still running to target and shatters => you lose stealth. I think? Never really thought about it since I only play shatter builds that are equipped with iperson. Iperson creates shatter effect on you as well when you shatter, and that definitely breaks stealth.
The silly PU build you fought hardly ever shatters anyway. In fact, it probably never shatters for damage.
edit: to clarify, succesfully damaging target through shatters definitely should break stealth. If it doesn’t, well then that’s probably a bug.
It is a nuisance that they are one time only items, but in a way it’s balanced. I bought the toxic dagger skin using in game gold and it costed me 50g. Now given the price of the more rare weapons in the game, it’s not really that bad.
The problen exists for over a year, i guess they don’t care to solve that problem as it can’t be that hard to set the votes required to kick someone on three.
My friend just discovered a trick to 2 man fractals. Basically you pug up with a friend, then at the last fractal, boot up the pugs. Then you sell the fractal. Is this legit? Because if it is, it could be pretty good way to make money.
ps. I know its already done en masse, but I don’t wanna do myself before I know it’s legit.
no…stealth is both the same. enter stealth you are invisible. both stealths can be “revealed” but for thief its any dmg and mesmer only weapons dmg.
It is the same for both: only direct damage breaks stealth. Thief summons or condition fields don’t break stealth. Anyway, what you fought was a silly, cookie cutter duel build called the PU mesmer. The idea of PU mesmer is to spam phantasms (and clones for their traited death effect) and then just try to survive by running away and stealthing as much as possible. It’s both boring to play against and to play as, I don’t know why people bring these to duels.
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