OPs suggestion would be the correct way to balance these ridiculous passive traits that can’t be avoided. Venoms used to be unavoidable as well, but were balanced using this kind of mechanic.
I have not once had a backstab that didn’t land on my targeted foe when I was at the right distance and the target did not evade or block. Well some rare cases there are, but they are probably only because of lag: I wasn’t truly close enough to land the backstab.
If you keep hitting clones or other pets with your backstab, it is only because you are spamming it like no tomorrow.
Also, turn off auto targeting if you haven’t already.
Perhaps you used the smoke bomb too early. That is, someone started channeling stomp, you use smoke bomb, smoke bomb stealth wears off, and then the stomp finishes.
I certainly hope they nerf this nonsense to the ground. Trivial, passive spam builds like this should not be competitive. At least not if you don’t want your game to be a joke.
Players should be able to spark up a duel anywhere in the game. We can already sort of do it with Costume brawl and the like. A lot of games also offer this feature including the now defunct Champions Online which was not a AAA title. All the pieces are there and to be honest players shouldn’t have to spend gems to get it.
This is a really terrible suggestion… not only it has nothing to do with wvw but also it would encourage people to fool around.
“This is a really terrible suggestion… not only it has nothing to do with wvw but also it would encourage people to [have fun].”
At the expense of everyone else, because you’re dealing with a map that has a queue to get into.
And beating eachother over the head in WvW is pretty much utterly pointless to anything WvW related.
As if beating head to a gate was so meaningful xD. WvW is pointless by desing.
- And so what? Other players have same rings so it’s not unique like is said. How can you even have two UNIQUE rings on your inventory? There should definitely be red text telling that two of same rings can’t be equipped at the same time.
Mesmer can’t do stealth attacks so this really isn’t such a big deal. Thief needs the revealed debuff because otherwise they could backstab => blindpowder => backstab again.
I think this is more a WvW issue. In spvp you don’t want to waste time perma stealthing and waiting for the right moment to strike. The damage is also much lower. In WvW however, you can sit in stealths with no consequences and as long as you please, then immeditately when the stealth wores off, swap to d/d and strike with the usual 20k+ mug, c&d and bs combo.
Warrior because of banners. Banners are around 30% more party wide damage. However, in a warrior party thief does the most damage. So thieves are good choices if your team already has a warrior or two.
Thats support dude, not damage.
Dude, I call it damage if it makes the red bar of bosses turn black faster.
Warrior because of banners. Banners are around 30% more party wide damage. However, in a warrior party thief does the most damage. So thief is a good choice if your team already has a warrior or two.
I start to retake my old Glass Cannon build for the next update. I will expect a lot of QQ incoming XD
I dont like permastealth, but i think was fun play with a D/P build based on stealth.
The thing is, you can currently be BOTH glass cannon and perma stealth d/p. To perma stealth as a thief, you need nothing but d/p set and 10 points in the stealth trait line.
Huh? Warrior can roam/scout and zerg, but thief can only roam/scout? Would you say to a warrior you clearly wanted to play a thief if the warrior says he wants to roam?
You can zerg as a thief but your role will not be the same as that of a warrior. A good zerg thief harasses the enemy backline casters and provides stealth to downed allies, for example. Of course it will not yield as much loot as spamming #1 in the middle of a blob, but that is just a very general flaw of Guild Wars 2 reward system where the easiest thing gives most loot.
And? Guild Wars 2 is Guild Wars 2. Just because your rogue class was brokenly op in other mmos you have played does not mean that it should be here as well.
And how is DD cheese but not DP? DP can stealth, whenever it wants, gap close, interrupt, blind.
Never did I say d/p wasn’t cheese as well. I welcome the fall of that particular perma-stealth playstyle.
This thread is about s/x and the nerfs that seem to always be directed at it.
s/d is a lot more overpowered than the perma stealth cheese ever was. Perma stealth is extremely annoying troll / 1vX build for WvW, but s/d is one of the main reasons why elementalist and mesmer almost completly dropped out of competitive tpvp meta.
Again like I’ve been saying the immobilize stacking hasn’t changed anything except for thief venom’s as you’re video points out again. If they want to revert it for wvw/spvp it wont change all these people complaining about dying in their tank builds because someone immobilized them for 2 seconds nor will it stop immobilize builds that can perma immobilize and has been unchanged since launch. Its the same thing with all these hammer warrior nerf cries, slowest joke weapon since launch is suddenly getting destroyed to appease bads who cant dodge Earthshaker.
In WvW, I usually end up spamming cluster-bomb (shotgun style), since I don’t like roaming/scouting. But one of the two things happens when I do that… either I go in just a bit behind the frontliners (guards/warriors) and get quite a bit of kills but almost surely get downed (or even die) at which point i get called out by our commander … OR i go in with the backliners and barely pick up any kills either because they all got trampled by the frontline or the other backliners are able to do more AoE then my cluster and kill em before I can even tag em-bomb….
While I understand that scouting/roaming is fun for some people, it’s not fun for me and it’s also A LOT less rewarding. If anything, being requested to roam/scout is like a punishment to me.
So I think, my thief will become a berry picking mining lumberjack. But I hear that thieves are OP for that as well, as they are able to chop trees, pick berries, and mine vines faster then other classes! Even faster in stealth! So they will eventually, probably, get nerfed in that respect as well.
(Watch out crafting thieves! they’re coming after you as well! we all know you can craft 100 items a second when you stealth and craft)
Well why did you roll a thief when you clearly actually wanted to play warrior?
Mesmer interrupt can be countered. If you cancel cast your stomp and start it again just when the mesmer uses the skill #2 (there is animation and cast time), then the mesmer appears out of stealth before your stealth finishes. Sometimes you still need to use a teleport skill to reach the mesmers new location though. Tricky, but it’s possible.
The same trick does work on elementalists but it needs a lot better timing. I’ve only managed to pull it off once or twice.
It is somewhat overpowered yes. Damage reduction would be in place, but I want the boon removal back.
Please explain why you think the skill is OP. DPS is on par with Auto attack, and auto attack causes cripple and weakness. I think 5 init is fair to pay for an evade and a boon strip that does the same damage as pressing 1 close to your target.
Thieves rely on evasion and mobility to survive by design
-Lowest base HP pool
-No protection, aegis, or stability (No, daggerstorm does not count as a method to gain stability)
-Middle tier armor
-No blocks, no immunities, no psuedo-immunites (think zerkers stand/endure pain)
-Sub-par condition removal
- Our toughness traitline is entirely stealth reliant – there’s no point in trying to increase our survivability via points in this tree for specs that don’t use stealth constantly.
But they do have stealth and a heal that has no cast time, not to mention the many teleports they have access to. This particular build also has some access to stability through Lyssa runes and basilisk venom. When pondering whether if a build has to be shaved, it isn’t relevant what the class in question in general relies to. All that matters is if the build as whole is too powerful or not. However, when the actual nerf is done, then one of course has to consider that class in general so that balanced builds aren’t affected too much.
Stealth does not mitigate damage. It just makes you untargetable. It also prevents contesting points. It isn’t a very powerful tool for S/D because it costs 6 init to access, they generally don’t have any points in SA, and it doesn’t open up any strong options for them. 90% of the time, you’ll see an S/D thief stealth to interrupt a stomp/res/long casting time ability being used without stability.
Stealth does allow you to avoid damage however, and you don’t always need to contest a point to be useful. For example when assaulting a point, it isn’t necessarily important to be contesting the point all the time. In group fights it doesn’t matter at all as long as one of your party members is contesting the point. Shadow Refuge is also very powerful group utility.
Access to stability via rune choices is not the same as in-class access to stability. Also note, Lyssa runes are generally taken due to thieves inability to drop a large number of conditions in a short period of time – if you’re using it for stability, you’re not going to have it for condition cleansing.
As I pointed out, when pondering a possible shaving of a build, it is irrelevant how the build gets an access to a given ability. All that matters is if the build is too powerful or if it is not. How the build gets the access to it’s abilities is only relevant when discussing the correct way of shaving.
What is it that makes you feel that S/D is overpowered, and needs to be shaved?
I feel it’s too powerful and forgiving direct damage build when compared to that what other classes such as mesmer or elementalist have to offer. It is the combination of decent damage, extreme defense through evades and infinite disengages and hard-countering of positioning through sword 2 that makes it so powerful. It makes many other roaming professions and builds almost obsolete not only by itself being better than them in roaming, but also by being a hard counter against the said builds (eg. ele, shatter mesmer).
It is somewhat overpowered yes. Damage reduction would be in place, but I want the boon removal back.
Thieves rely on evasion and mobility to survive by design
-Lowest base HP pool
-No protection, aegis, or stability (No, daggerstorm does not count as a method to gain stability)
-Middle tier armor
-No blocks, no immunities, no psuedo-immunites (think zerkers stand/endure pain)
-Sub-par condition removal
- Our toughness traitline is entirely stealth reliant – there’s no point in trying to increase our survivability via points in this tree for specs that don’t use stealth constantly.
But they do have stealth and a heal that has no cast time, not to mention the many teleports they have access to. This particular build also has some access to stability through Lyssa runes and basilisk venom, and also some “random” access through boon steal. When pondering whether if a build has to be shaved, it isn’t relevant what the class in question in general relies to. All that matters is if the build as whole is too powerful or not. However, when the actual nerf is done, then one of course has to consider that class in general so that balanced builds aren’t affected too much.
These phant specs that use PU are very strong duel builds with or without perplexity. P/d thief in WvW can give them problems because they don’t always bring enough condition removal and because the phants are easy enough to c&d from. d/p is also sort of good against them if you aren’t full glass: these mesmers can’t burst nearly as well as MW specs so you can generally perma stealth and regen if you start getting too much pressure.
S/d is based mostly on evasion, but the damage from the AI is constant and random in a sense, so you really can’t avoid all of it even if you dodge a lot. This is why s/d will probably have hard time against these phant specs.
Yea it also makes me laugh when people say thief is the most mobile class when it’s not . We don’t even have swiftness which is a complete joke to me .
Sword\warhorn and greatsword + bullcharge warrior can outrun anybody and it shouldn’t happen .
They still don’t have the combat mobility of a thief. Shadow stepping also allows the thief to skip many obstacles. Thief is also a lot better sprinter even if the warrior may win the long distance run.
I really don’t get these “my thief sucks” -threads. I still find thief as one of the most powerful roaming / trolling classes for wvw, and s/d is very strong in spvp. Sure, you aren’t as effective in the blobwars as a warroior or a guard is, but is that really what you wanted to do when you rolled a rogue class?
FS→LS costs 5 init – it better do something special if it costs 5 init, does similiar DPS to AA, and doesn’t have weakness and cripple attached. Evading and stealing a boon is completely reasonable for spending 42% of a standard initiative bar.
Also note, you don’t get all 3 in 1 skill – FS is Defense, LS is Damage and Utility. If you need defense and you have LS up, you don’t get it. If you need damage and utility and FS is up, you don’t get it.
Yes, sword AA is indeed too strong, as are most autoattacks in this game.
Though, not even nearly as good as thief. I used to main mesmer, still sort of do, but in practice I really only play my thief nowdays xD.
I really liked to play a shatter build, but currently that build has too hard time against all the silly condition builds out there. I mean, my thief can’t beat all of these builds either, but at least he has easier time avoiding fights with them.
Well one of the perhaps most exciting ones is that, if you have the 10% gs damage trait selected on your warrior, you now see the tool tip damage of 100blades increase! Wow! Personally I discovered a whole new build thanks to this change!
Aye. Well I agree that sword #3 damage should be reduced, or they should reduce the evasion. Or perhaps tune sword #2. In any case, I believe that decreasing the number of boons removed wasn’t correct way to alter that set.
1. When Will the Leaderboard and Solo Q be fixed ? Never.
2. When will the Achievements points be brought into line with Pve/Wve. Never.
3. When will Spvp be rewarding ? Never.
Lol 10k backstab.. trust me if he hits you for 10k , he has
2k armor and 10k hp . And warriors yes the healing signet
allows you to faceroll stuff and the cleansing ire but if they fix
warrior necro would be OP . They need to nerf their signet only.
It is hilarious to watch badly played thieves who go in, burst someone and then die, most of them are jumping on the wagon and picked up the class a few days prior to that. Well played thieves get away with stealth, teleports, blinds and then go and repeat the combo on somebody else. Then those “new thief” players get decimated because they die to quickly and come to complain about how their class is UP.
But suddenly if we want to make skillful eles be able to get that amount of damage from nowhere without any warning nor casting and the ability to disengage like thieves at will, then everyone loses their mind.
\Double standards/
The perma stealth & instagib thieves are troll thieves and should be compared to kill shot warriors. People play them because they want to wind up people, not because they want to win the match. These thieves don’t have enough mobility to roam properly, nor can they defend a point.
Are you serious? Hs spam is terrible. It’s just a common joke around thief players that it would be op, it of course really isn’t. The damage isn’t enough against tanks and other glass cannons will just counter attack. Sure, it can be sometimes okish to spam hs after a succesful mug combo, especially if they panic, but that’s about it.
Well sometimes, due to skill stacking mechanics, double tapping hs is allright if your foe is about to stealth and has low hp.
n fact, my tests show a coeff of 0.2774 i.e 0.28 for this skill. And 0.28*2 = 0.56 (Sorry for misleading rounding)
And I guess he was under haste when spamming, coupled with the initial stun from BV, it was really quick. Anyway, the lag was horrendous, it took like 4 sec to switch attunement, I never ever have experimented such a lagfest.
Sounds like the common double speed bug that is very often encountered in WvW.
