Guild Wars 2

Sadly this isn’t even a change that warrants this large a period of silence from the developers. I have 10 filler trait points on my current build that I’d love to throw into death magic if reanimator stopped scaring me away each time.

It’s pretty horrible, I often use DS3 to ensure it hits if I’m desperate enough to close distance with a kiting opponent but I don’t think making it a 900 range teleport is the right answer. If anything such abilities should be tacked onto dagger or utility skills imo.

I do think it needs to be changed though.

Well it’s the reason why I hate my ranger and it’s the reason why I haven’t made a mesmer yet. If there was a trait to take mesmer away from all this passive single target damage, I would have one already.

style.6173:

No no no. This game does NOT need more AI.

That’s mesmer in a nut shell though. Not like I enjoy fighting all the AI but I can only see more getting added.

I’d like to see death magic reward reward stability in some way so it can stop being the lackluster trait line that it is.

Tetsuyja.7805:

this proposal is only for BS and u can be sure that the other sneak attacks don’t need this.

i want positive feedback i am nerfing my own class, my favorite class

I’m pretty sure most people have little issue with back stab and the issues lie with stealth being based less around skill (ex: CnD) and more around clicking a button or a combination of buttons to enter it.

I would rather see stealth get tied to skills like CnD or simply have long interrupt able casts like mass invisibility allowing for counter play instead of nerfs to stealth attacks. In return give thieves more abilities independent of stealth such as real condition cleansing, damage mitigation that isn’t tied to nasty spammable bursts etc.

Keep stealth as a massive reward that grants high bursts, condition removal, healing, repositioning, and damage avoidance opportunities, but tie it to skill.

By the Gods, just let us turn Asuras (and any other races for that matter) into a generic model of another race. If being tiny doesn’t affect animation readability, than give us this option for the sake of customization. Let the Asura players enjoy being small and let us enjoy them being norns since size doesn’t matter.

Absolutely no one should be against this except for Anet because it will take too much effort.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNAoYWjc00abtNO2wfbCYSR2fH9gYlZmqA8A-zUCBYjBErBiCEiqAgwAMRtIas1SFRjVVjIqWlELAwBAL/7y/u8yBA-w

Spam weakness. Pull smart people into marks or the radiation field to win. You can siphon somewhere in there cause why not? and it has 10 free trait points because I don’t know where to throw them since anet is hiding in a corner over this patch (10 can be thrown in death magic for dark armor or 5 in soul reaping for Last Gasp etc). That also explains why I have so many crit proc sigils.

The sigil on the staff supposed to be a sigil of doom. The superior sigil of generosity is filler in the case that SoV ever became decent since CC nerfs this builds abilities too much. If this sigil aint OP now give it till after this patch.

Of course full celestial is getting nerfed/buffed though…/!(?)

Down sides of this build: Warriors, roaming, Anet balancing, and Warriors (Yes twice).

Jks aside, this is probably the best build I could come up with since pure siphoning is pretty bad right now. I can only justify those extremely limited heals with lots of poison, weakness, protection, and life force generation.

Dalanor.5387:

From a balance standpoint every racial is fine except Become the Snow Leopard. This skill, even if an elite with a high cooldown, gives such an amazing escape tool that it makes thieves cry.
#nerfsnowleopard2014

I won’t lie, I’ve sometimes cried myself to sleep wishing that my human necromancer was a norn because flesh golem, lich form, and plague form suck for roaming.

Would be fine with a range reduction to 600 as Maugetarr pointed out. I’m sure few people would have a problem with thieves teleporting instantly if they were still within your range (with a bit of management).

I’m not too interested in it at the moment unless they nerf lyssa and give my guardian it’s own viable cleansing. I once tried to get really creative with resistance on my necromancer to address the “no damage mitigation” issue only to receive horrendous results because of the ICD. I don’t see myself going back even if it gets changed, but I’d like to see how that rune changes in particular.

I’ve seen so many people asking for a debuff when reviving and I fail to see the problem with it. It even makes sense since you should be far more vulnerable while tending to someone in the middle of a battle.

They really just need to discourage reviving allies in every situation with a debuff making revivals more tactical. Something that’ll make a bunker melt like they were balanced, a balanced class melt like they were glass, and a glass melt like they was paper(?). This will put more emphasis on reflection abilities and will allow strategy to have more of a place in out numbered situations.

Hambow warriors (mostly hammer warriors), PU mesmers, MM necros, and D/P thieves.

a t s e.9614:

Lowest skill cap class is necro not warrior . From ez mode to hard mode list

- necro
- warrior and thief same skill cap
- ranger
- guard
- Mesmer
- engi
-ele

Necromancer is first? I admit their condition variations are fairly face roll, but if you can somehow get on them, they’re dead. There is no kiting for heals or immunities, they are dead.

From easiest to hardest imo: Warrior, Necromancer, Guardian, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, Engineer, Ele.

Warrior would definitely be first on my list. I put thief far higher on that scale because there is far more room for error since they have to exchange blows at the same time as their opponents (no cc’s built in). Their major heals and condition removals are also in their stealth usage which gives their opponents an equally long break.

Warrior is just a big ball of almost everything, the opportune moment to kill them is during their cc’s and hope they don’t catch on fast enough to retreat for heals. At OP, warriors are not overpowered, they’re simply far too effective for the amount of effort they require to play forcing their opponents to make minimal mistakes against someone with less skill. If warriors become less effective against better opponents, then buff their active abilities and nerf the living daylights out of all this passive game play.

Doesn’t it already show up the combat log, except it’s delayed? I think that’s good enough.

I think it should be done if it’s an initial step towards condition damage being properly balanced. This isn’t me hoping conditions is nerfed to ground since I frankly carry far too much condition cleansing for condition classes to do anything against me anyways <— The problem.

Absolutely hate it. If you have the money, it’s still extremely easy to obtain it on the spot while the casual players are punished because they don’t have the time to dedicate themselves to one game. It also locks you into one build in a supposedly “horizontal” progression mmo with the sheer amount of time and mats required to complete it.

I wouldn’t call myself a casual player but the 36 days I spent struggling to get my armor will soon mean little without the right reimbursement.

Edit: Not counting my accessories I got 8 pieces of ascended equipment on my necromancer and 1 on my guardian.

tonyheckenlively.6724:

So, I’m confused, do any of you guys actually LIKE this game?

I like this game but being left out to dry (regarding my ascended gear) forced me to rethink how much I do. I’ve been playing a lot less since I don’t plan to continue playing this game if I can’t switch my clerics weapons along with my berserker armor and celestial trinkets, but these fake notes got me hoping anet wasn’t just going to let me down this patch.

Of course announcing these patch notes as fake doesn’t rule out the content within it, but without knowing what it is and going off of anet’s past balance records leads me to believe It won’t be good.

I gave up my travellers and sold my soul to lyssa so I can fight against conditions on my meditation guardian. That was one of the hardest trade offs I’ve made in this game.

Citing gw1 so much is going to make you guys sad I tell you. I personally don’t think confusion can fix much on this class. For starters a lot of things need to be reverted (or changed in anets case since I doubt they will back peddle after flipping so many things upside down) and tacking on confusion during this will probably just bring us back to square one. Besides it’s just another condition being masked and I think necro’s barf out far too many at the moment.

I’m all for more torment and less bleeds though since the idea of it on necro radiates well with me.

Definitely. Plague form is somewhat horrible on your own and it’s cool down is massive. Outside of being a minion master, flesh golem doesn’t compare to the escape provided by the snow leapard. Lich form is meh, but decent in a group.

I’d happily throw snow leapard on my necro if I wasn’t a human, that escape is priceless.

I’ll be making good use of the torch if those changes are true. This way we can maintain pressure on a class whose aa’s apply conditions without having to attack as hard as possible while wasting larger cleanses.

Does this mean that SoV’s passive is affected by blood thirst? If this is true, all anet needs to do is build blood thirst into the class and we might get somewhere. Also vampiric precision is weak as a standalone trait, it honestly needs to be combined with vampiric or turned into a trait that turns vitality into precision and also siphons on crit.

I plan to use a superior sigil of earth with a superior sigil of blood on my hybrid necro with the upcoming changes.

It’ll be difficult to rework all the weapons around attunements, though I’d be happy with anything that didn’t involve me relying on AI. I can get behind a version of yours and gawkers idea though. If you had a class mechanic which powered up normal weapon abilities after filling a meter that can have an attunement applied to it through traits, I think that would be fairly entertaining.

Don’t see this happening though since by rework I’m taking it as longbow autos deal 10% more damage etc.

Daishi.6027:

All that needs to happen to condi is get a survivability nerf and/or a DPS nerf for PvP.

They have to much sustain for the amount of damage they do, although technically less it’s still on par with glass in terms of effectiveness.

2 ways to do it with minimal resources. (I say minimal as opposed to major redesigns)

1. mess with the amulet stats. (Which a-net is doing but no idea what’s in their heads)

2. Balance skill numbers and tweak something for PvE so it’s not useless.

Unfortunately without major redesigns, they will just make conditions unplayable. Right now there are plenty of classes than can manage conditions, but they cleanse them at an alarming pace while some classes fail to cleanse them at all. A straight up nerf to conditions in pvp will not fix much and adding more cleanses will just bring us back to square one.

Condition damage needs a redesign.

The problem with condition damage is that there is no middle ground for balance. Either the condition class wipes the floor with you or you wipe the floor with them. My meditation guardian could do absolutely nothing against them in her old 10 25 30 5 0 (with two removals in smite condition and contemplatition of purity) build and I got so frustrated that I switched to the 10 5 30 5 20 build (since I already got desperate and adopted lyssa runes to my first build). All of a sudden your typical condition player can’t do anything to me because of the sheer amount of removals. This is not fun and I don’t know how some condition players can fight for this sort of binary balance.

There really needs to be a way to tune our condition resistance to our liking so that our reliance on straight up removals can be toned down. Condition damage is out of hand and if I don’t wish to see my characters absolutely melt, such ridiculous amounts of removals are necessary.

Yes it does need los.

Tim.6450:

Where is the proof in that statement?

So runes of melandru doesn’t exist? Nor do runes of hoelbrak?

The same can be said bout CC and mobility. Some classes can deal with them others not.

So wait now do conditions have to rely on four stats (condi damage/crit/prec/duration)? On top of that do they have to find a way to survive against the other player so that their damage can tick, not fair.

1. Condition spam > condition removal, less tells = more meaningful connections.

2. Tell me when I can trait for it or build it to my specifications in my armor and traits.

3. I’m in no way defending those and hope they also get shaken up.

4. How is it not? condition duration is in no way a meaningful stat that introduces weaknesses in condition builds, it’s just there and lots of it can be achieved without sacrifices (aka icing). You would only have to spec condi damage/precision/crit dmg if you wanted to have better chances against opponents spec’d to counter you.

The power side of the spectrum is forced to make extremely difficult decisions between power/precision/critical dmg/toughness/vitality and so on that opens up specific builds for all sorts of weaknesses. If you want a power based version of the problem with condition damage, look no further than warriors and unsuspecting foe.

@ Lakdav:

Having vitality is dandy and all but as you said, it’s just as effective against power builds. Difference being a player can choose how much toughness they want to counter power, but there is no such stat against conditions.

Many classes can’t handle the pace of a fight with a condition class and eventually get overwhelmed for reasons outside of their control. The classes that can, have an overwhelming amount of condition removal which is in no way any better. I doubt condition damage will ever be balanced with removal since it all hinges on anet hence why I think the system should just be remade to allow each individual player to decide how hard they wish to counter each other at a cost.

I feel that your closing point is why condition damage needs a change in the first place because traits and skills like beserkers stance, diamond skin, and automated response hurts the little guy far more than the target and it will only get worse from here.

Condition spam easily outputs the most practical dps in this game imo which is plain wrong with the readability of most condition skills considered. It doesn’t help that there isn’t any stat to decrease condition damage and condition classes only really need one stat to output moderate damage, two if they want to see the world burn. Some classes are actually unplayable against conditions if you don’t plan to hug large cleansing groups because your ability to combat conditions is dependent on your class and not your play style.

There really needs to be some sort of stat to decrease condition damage that super tanky characters won’t have easy access to. Then they should allow conditions to crit to counter it and we might be able to get rid of a large chunk of this condi spam and removals.

Yes please. Just have an option to enable or disable it in the advanced options or something because I’m not sure if my mouse 5 is breaking or not, but I seem to exit DS a lot. While pressured I seem to exit ds but while calmly testing it out I’m fine. I even moved it to what my old push to talk button used to be and my push to talk button is my DS button so you can imagine the antics while being hammer locked by a warrior.

I seriously wish ds was broken into multiple skills that drained life force. That way we wouldn’t have a meat shield and attacks built into one skill but the class would be far more versatile.

Our exchanges with every other class is that of a child and a pill bug.

Saturn.6591:

Monoman.2068:

EnRohbi.2187:

Monoman.2068:

Saturn.6591:

^You can dodge Moa easily. You can not dodge your opponent’s stealth. You can chose to not use Plague or Lich form if you play a Minionmaster (in this case you’d probably often use Golem anyway?). You can not chose that your opponent doesn’t use stealth.

Most moa morphing mesmers do so from stealth, so wildy dodging when your opponent enters stealth is in no way a counter to moa morph.

And yet that’s how people are expected to dodge backstabs from thieves.
Dodging randomly and hoping to get lucky has /always/ been how you deal with getting hit from stealth in gw2

Difference being that you can bet on the fact that the thief will most likely be coming in close to deal damage and can put up the minimal resistance necessary so he doesn’t leave the exchange unscathed. This is in no way defending stealth, but at least there is some risk associated with the most dangerous things a thief will do in stealth.

Now putting your opponent out of commission for 10 seconds from range while stealthed when there are a myriad of different things mesmers can do from range is complete and utter bs.

If Moa morph would even be half as awesome as you claim it to be, you would see many more people running around with it. I’m playing this game for over a year now, and I think I’ve been turned into a Moa by a player maybe uhm… 1-2 times in total. I was Moa’d more often by NPC’s than by players. Moa is almost completely useless against anyone who isn’t a MM-Necro. Also, Moa morph has a long cooldown, while backstabs are coming every 5 seconds or so; so comparing them with eachother is kinda silly.

You brought up backstabbing, I just mentioned stealth and moa morphing. Besides I’m in no way saying moa morph is OP in the grand scheme of things but for the small exchanges, it’s cheesy. I am not in the mindset that being able to make someone useless for 10 seconds is ok just because it’s single target, has a large CD, and a bait animation (which can be masked).

That’s a slippery slope where large amounts of cheese is ok as long as it can’t affect many people. Edit: But this isn’t the place so I’ll drop it.

I honestly think the best answer is to tie stealth to skills with counter play already in place. Stealthing skills like CnD are perfectly fine (imo) and a thief who constantly gets it off on me deserves all the back stab/repositioning opportunities. Mass invisibility is another good example since it has a very telegraphed animation and a long cast.

Stealth from skills like bp + hs, blinding powder, shadow refuge, decoy, the prestige, and so on are problems because there are advantages on top of the already numerous amount of advantages you have for entering stealth and your opponents can do little to stop you.

Stealth is extremely powerful and rather than nerfing it to the point where it’s ok to be spammed, I’d rather see it get nerfed to the point where it’s usage is deserved. This way, we won’t have a similar situation to that of conditions (by this I mean your ability to combat stealth won’t be dependent on whether anet blessed your class hard enough or not) and both parties will require skill and timing to prevent/enter stealth. Of course I would expect classes like thief to gain better condition removal/damage mitigation abilities independent of stealth.

Yeah I’m in the nerf Warrior boat (By that I mean give them real down sides), since warriors don’t need to play smart for the most part and will still be fairly effective. A lot of warriors face tank under the assumption that you are being cc’d too hard to mount any real resistance and if you are getting attacks in, healing signet will counter act a decent chunk of that damage. If all else fails they can use their mobility like a make shift healing skill since most classes can’t keep up. This is without getting into their damage mitigation which falls under the make shift healing skill for me.

Condition are overdue for some changes so I won’t touch on condition warriors.

Lack of hard cc on PU condition mesmers is probably the one thing preventing them from jumping to warrior status imo and instead they’re more like ghosts with an grudge.

Ranger definitely needs a buff, but I doubt just tweaking numbers can save this class. Anet needs to sit down with it and remake entire portions of it if they have to.

azuzephyr.7280:

They should have just made the guardian active heal our heal and kept the passive.

Considering how much of a crutch consume conditions is for necro as a class any other heal has to be very good before you could consider replacing consume as a heal.

Not only is Sov not competitively good, it’s utter trash even under best circumstances

It doesn’t need to compete with consume conditions to be good. Plenty of people would have used it if it just siphoned like how most of us imagined it would. I personally want any excuse to drop consume conditions since I prefer sending my conditions back and could use some passive healing to decrease their impact till I do. I’d be a little low on the dps side so I expected SoV to alleviate a bit of that problem too. I was so deep in lala land before SoV dropped that I’m still sick to this day looking at the final product.

You can’t make direct comparisons to other classes but I still can’t believe that this skill heals for less than healing skills like healing signet and only when we take damage to boot. If the developers weren’t so scared/lazy/indifferent I would love to hear their thoughts on SoV and why it is the way that it is.

EnRohbi.2187:

Monoman.2068:

Saturn.6591:

^You can dodge Moa easily. You can not dodge your opponent’s stealth. You can chose to not use Plague or Lich form if you play a Minionmaster (in this case you’d probably often use Golem anyway?). You can not chose that your opponent doesn’t use stealth.

Most moa morphing mesmers do so from stealth, so wildy dodging when your opponent enters stealth is in no way a counter to moa morph.

And yet that’s how people are expected to dodge backstabs from thieves.
Dodging randomly and hoping to get lucky has /always/ been how you deal with getting hit from stealth in gw2

Difference being that you can bet on the fact that the thief will most likely be coming in close to deal damage and can put up the minimal resistance necessary so he doesn’t leave the exchange unscathed. This is in no way defending stealth, but at least there is some risk associated with the most dangerous things a thief will do in stealth.

Now putting your opponent out of commission for 10 seconds from range while stealthed when there are a myriad of different things mesmers can do from range or while stealthed is complete and utter bs.

Saturn.6591:

^You can dodge Moa easily. You can not dodge your opponent’s stealth. You can chose to not use Plague or Lich form if you play a Minionmaster (in this case you’d probably often use Golem anyway?). You can not chose that your opponent doesn’t use stealth.

Most moa morphing mesmers do so from stealth, so wildy dodging when your opponent enters stealth is in no way a counter to moa morph.

I’ve been ignoring story content ever since I failed to get all the achievments from the southsun survival/debate update. Then I run into Taimi while doing my wvw and while I absolutely hate most Asura I can’t help but like her.

Fix her legs kitten. I actually run away from spawn asap so I don’t slip on my tears and off the ship.

Or arena net could stop giving tanks the ability to swat flies.

If it had a gigantic cost to the necromancer, it could probably keep it’s 1/4th second cast. I’m ok with that.

Who am I kidding? a quarter second pull is whack, but I still like the idea.

I think this has happened to me before in wvw, but it seems to be extremely rare and I was panicking in those situations (hence why I used it).

It’s not a matter of it being overpowered, it’s a matter of it screwing up tainted shackles. Do you guys actually feel like tainted shackles needs a change other than the no counter play torment? I see it as a case of if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

I would personally like a pull to be built into the necromancer, but tainted shackles is decent imo. Only reason I can see this being a thing is because of it’s name.

Rennoko.5731:

I think it would be fine as long as there was some counterbalance to it.

I honestly think the DS5 skill has such little counter play it should be changed anyhow. The last pulse (4th pulse if you will) where it does the immobilize should put on all 3 torment stacks, and the torment applied over time should be scrapped. No one could avoid it (aside from getting out of range) so it had little counterplay. The end pulse can be dodged, and should allow the target to avoid all the torment too.

If it worked that way and you could end it early for a pull and no torment/immoblize, it would be perfectly fine. It has a really long cooldown for a pull skill and a really short range at 600.

It has plenty although I can agree that the torment application added a no counter play portion to it which I wouldn’t mind being added to the 4th pulse. I don’t mind the pull, but most pulls are associated with large casts of 1/2-3/4th a second or horribly telegraphed animations and projectiles which I think would ruin this skills ability to be comboed.

My character is sitting on around 70% crit chance in mixed ascended gear so this hit will hurt. I’d be playing other vertical progression mmos if I knew anet would have me regrinding entire sets of time gated armor every couple months. I hope anet handles this well because I have zero drive to even play/tweak my characters with the little information I have regarding this patch.

Whatever solution they have (if any), I’de hope it’s not short term. This game is still a work in progress and you can’t even swap armor faster than the updates come out anymore.

I think it’s fine as is mainly because tainted shackles is already pretty good which means it will probably have a more noticeable cast time added to it to allow for counter play. It also won’t be as good as binding blades since it has to be used within it’s small activation window.

I imagine it’ll make ds frustrating to fight, so I’d rather see the reliability of dark path upped a few notches.

Stand The Wall.6987:

A necro with a hammer makes no sense at all what so ever. I can imagine a gsword, much like the mesmers. The only class I can see with a hammer other then the guard and war is the ele.

Not too sure how a gsword would make more sense than a hammer (other than the fact that Sylvari Jesus used it). I’de personally prefer a hammer since it seems more in line with necromancer’s slow, supposedly tanky play style.

I might come back to gws with a few friends just to find the people camping these achievements and gank the living day light out of them. My dance button will have it’s letter worn out by the end of this.

I hope refunds aren’t just limited to exotic/ascended gear with crit damage and extends to all ascended gear period. Unlike when magic find was changed, I can’t just go and buy/make new weapons on whim.

I won’t jump to conclusions, but Anet’s track record seems to point towards plenty of ascended gear becoming useless in the next month or two.

DejaVu.9825:

I propose to change the following move.

Cloak and dagger
Time cast: 3/4
Cost: 5 Initiative
by doing so you can better avoid the moved and prevent the thief to go invisible, and the low cost allows the thief to retain more initiative and to better respond to dodge the enemy.

Italian:
Propongo di modificare la seguente mossa.

Cloak and dagger
Tempo cast: 3/4
Costo: 5 Iniziativa

Cosi facendo è possibile evitare meglio la mossa ed impedire al ladro di andare invisibile, mentre il costo ridotto permette al ladro di conservare più iniziativa e di rispondere meglio alla schivata del nemico.

Cloak and Dagger isn’t a problem though. In fact I would argue that it is the thief’s most balanced stealth move since it’s oozing with counter play. If I could buff cloak and dagger and nerf black powder, I would.