Guild Wars 2

golem is a bad example because it has an untelegraphed, close to insta-down mechanic (the ground electrification)

it also has a that well-telegraphed but almost unavoidable anyway three-hit Ground pound, which seems like what you’re supposed to save dodges for. Dodge through the first hit to try to get to a place where the second hit won’t afect you, then dodge the third.

if lightning then drops on you, it will kill you before you can walk out of it.

mesmer does too.
it’s not as obvious.

For every class that currently has the dodge fluff, it makes sense.

I could see ele getting a momentary mist form anim, but that might be too close to revs, and would require a smoother transition to and from mist to be animated (which is not necessarily a bad idea in itself)

Warrior, ranger and eng i don’t think any case could be made for. it just doesn’t fit.

Guard & necro… Both have obvious thematic graphics that could be used, but are they really appropriate to the class’s actual capabilities? If necro can dissolve in a blur of death magic and rematerialize, why can’t they blink? If guardian could transform into holy fire, why can they not use that as an offensive/utility capability?

Edit: with revs addition, i like that every armour tier now has one class with the special dodge. it doesn’t need to go beyond that, it’ll just take away some of the snowflakeness from the thing.

Zahld.4956:

They’ll be over having too much item capacity in no time.
And why advocate for holding back to try to sell something else? Look how not have character slot with the expansion went. It leaves the game at a low value and players don’t like it.

Well my main criticism is against your contention that it’ll be useful. unless they add new sources of mats that provide more than the current level of supply, then the amount of materials we have coming in won’t change. If they just add new materials that will go into mat storage then those will presumably respect the limit you already have. I don’t see how it’ll be needed.

But again, like i said, i’d be happy to receive more storage. it just doesn’t seem to make sense from a business standpoint, so i’m advising against getting your hopes up.

just ran into this glitch – had never noticed it before.

I thought there was a hero challenge up there from previous world completions, but since i could see no icon i thought i must’ve just had my zones confused….

It would likely cost them sales of storage expanders and upset the people who bought some already and don’t feel they need more at this time.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be cool, but i can’t see it happening.

I feel like they need to be more powerful, at least at launch. People are going to get frustrated if switching to a new, novel spec makes the game harder because it’s no more powerful and requires them to learn a whole new playstyle to the one they’re already skilled at.

I imagine they’ll be brought back into line with the other specs in later patches after release.

This sounds chancy enough to be considered a bug; try posting in bug report?

maddoctor.2738:

Narrrz.7532:

Then it just becomes more difficult. Tell me, in your own words, how should the events in verdant brink work? What, specifically, should be included, and what, specifically, should be avoided?

Now I didn’t play the beta but from what I read, the mobs and events in verdant brink are more engaging and fun than other parts of the game. I don’t have much to add about those, the devs already figured it out.

Fair call. I did and the events there are a lot more engaging – it feels a bit more like drytop, with silverwastes style rewards.
What i was getting at, though, is that when put on the spot, it’s quite difficult to list exact requirements for your personal enjoyment. “Not like silverwastes” doesn’t give all that much help – they could just as easily conclude that you didn’t like constant, closely packed multi-stage meta events, which i’m presuming wouldn’t be the case for the average complainant.

maddoctor.2738:

You say that the difficulty of Arah P4 is the main reason for it not being run, let me ask something different, if Arah P4 had actually amazing rewards would it be run more often? Is it really the difficulty that makes it so unlikeable?

Well i think statistically it’s the least run path. The rewards are the same as any other Arah path, and some people are motivated to run the dungeon for the related achieves/currency/rewards. If it were enjoyable, they’d prefer P4 to other paths (though i’d expect a more even spread even then, because setting aside the question of enjoyment i think P4 is the longest)

KentarouKawasaki.3286:

To be honest my war is a heal/tank war. He can suck the damage from most enemies and even fight several dungeon bosses face on, as well as using either shouts or banners (depending on situation) to keep the more DPS oriented members of the party alive.

Only major problem is of course, the tradeoff means he does almost no damage.

As is the case in other MMOs.
The catch here is that a dedicated person to perform this role is not strictly needed.

This was mentioned in another recent thread (and probably more older ones i never saw)

I endorsed it then, i endorse it now.
+1

maddoctor.2738:

Narrrz.7532:

The community hardly speaks with one voice, and certainly is not of one mind, and if the average player is anything like me, what they consider the most fun changes day to day. Again – even if implementable, a community-controlled system for determining which content was to be the most rewarding (on a given day or in general) would be easily and instantly exploited.

Well I’m not talking about a system that changes all the time based on what the community does. My idea would be to change FUTURE content on current trends.

Then it just becomes more difficult. Tell me, in your own words, how should the events in verdant brink work? What, specifically, should be included, and what, specifically, should be avoided?
I tend to think of dealing with groups of gamers as similar to dealing with a young child. Ask a question like, “what sort of fun do you want?” and the most coherent answer you’re likely to get is ‘fun!’

maddoctor.2738:

I’m not sure what your idea of more balanced rewards entails, and certainly if you have specifics in mind, you should post them where devs might be able to see them, but i don’t see how the problem possibly can be as severe as you are making it out to be.

Well. I can give an easy example, dungeon rewards. No I’m not comparing them to trains or sw, I’ll only compare the paths of the SAME dungeon, for example the Ruined City of Arah. The rewards of the 4 dungeon paths make little to no sense, especially how low the rewards are on path 4.

Oh god. I mean, you’ve picked a good example, but now, instead of thinking “hmmkay, i’ll go do a quick half hour of SW chests” Now i’m imaging trying to work up the resolve to do a daily Arah dungeon run.
In a lot of cases i think the problem is less that the rewards aren’t there, it’s that the content is too unenjoyable/difficult to make any reward worth that pain. I still don’t have my dungeon master title thanks to Arah. That’s a case where it’s not the rewards but rather the content that needs reexamining.

maddoctor.2738:

I didn’t have the same experience outside of daily event maps so I don’t think the system is working very well. There is a reason they are adding the new map rewards, which is an amazing new way of rewarding players on all zones btw, if everything was fine they wouldn’t do it. if they thought world events were well rewarding they wouldn’t add an extra system of rewards on top of it, or at least that’s what I think. Changes like this one is what we need.

I’m definitely not against a chest-style reward for most events, but its going to create a further problem in itself in that whatever it rewards will suddenly enter the economy in prolific quantity, probably crashing the market/s.

I mean, strictly speaking, world events aren’t rewarding, and that’s because the main thing they reward is exp, which is now useless at 80. That’s changing, of course – enough? – but right now a pittance of copper and a few hundred points of the somewhat intangible karma currency aren’t meaningful rewards by any stretch. the main reward of an event (discounting the novelty of participating) is that they often offer much better mob density along with a beacon attracting other players, who in turn help cope with the elevated enemy numbers. Of course, this reward is only meaningful because you can loot the foes of most events, which is not true of SW.

As nice as chests are, if they replaced the SW system by allowing event mobs to drop loot, i think that’s a change i personally would endorse.

maddoctor.2738:

Narrrz.7532:

I don’t think a good reward system need be one in which the most “fun” content is also the most efficient.

Why? Game companies should focus on the best and more fun aspects of their games than the least fun ones. And a way to focus their playerbase on those is through rewards.

You kinda took that sentence out of context. I don’t disagree with the sentiment, just the practicalities of actually labeling a single piece (or even a set) of content as the most fun.

maddoctor.2738:

apart from the obvious problem that multiple different types and categories of content can be considered fun and there is no real metric to measure the average fun yielded by content, this would require all content to yield rewards proportionate to time invested, which is the most easily exploitable system i can think of offhand (and would lead to a worse outcome than grinding; deliberately prolonging content as long as you can stand to, or even just sitting idle while the minutes/hours/days rack up)

Well there is a way to measure “fun”. Asking the community. See which types of content they play and enjoy. Unfortunately the current problem with the game is that some activities are overflowing with players (and seem to Anet like everyone likes them) not because they are fun but because they have the most rewards.

The community hardly speaks with one voice, and certainly is not of one mind, and if the average player is anything like me, what they consider the most fun changes day to day. Again – even if implementable, a community-controlled system for determining which content was to be the most rewarding (on a given day or in general) would be easily and instantly exploited.

Hell, it probably wouldn’t even change the game from how it is now – if there’s one thing the average RPG gamer likes, it’s being rewarded. And while new content is novel and fun content is, well, fun, the novel gets stale and fun tends to look a little washed out on your 50th run through. So what would likely happen is that people would vote for what they saw as either the easiest or fastest content to be the most rewarding, so they can rack up their precious lewt at the most expedient manner possible.

maddoctor.2738:

If the rewards were more balanced out, then we might’ve seen players going to other activities instead and have a better metric of what the community actually enjoy.

The thing is, the rewards are largely balanced out – and people do do all sorts of activities. Been to Orr lately? i’ve done map completion on all three zones twice this last week, and the whole time i was there, there were enough to players to complete basically every event i came across. On the second time around, in Cursed shores, there was a full fledged event train going on. The world boss train operates 24/7 and typically overflows the target instances to the point that enough people wind up in secondary or even tertiary maps that the bosses are easily completed there, too. At practically every hour of the day or night, groups are available for basically any dungeon path or fractal level range. Doing further map completion in lower level zones, it’s rare for me to be able to complete even an easy event without another player showing up. People are out there, doing all aspects of the game as it already stands. That, more than anything, tells me the current rewards scheme is working.

Sure, the Silverwastes is an efficient source of income, and even the chest train can be kinda fun once in a while, for a tour or two – it’s nice to be part of a larger group of players all working towards the same purpose, but i don’t care to do it for even multiple hours at a stretch, much less the full days that some people put in. But it’s there, it’s an option, and likely upwards of 90% of the level 80s you run into doing other activities know all about the chest train, and even if they’ve never explicitly thought of it as such, they know that it’s at least one of the more efficient ways to make money, but they’re doing something else anyway, because at the time that thing is more fun and/or rewarding in the way that is meaningful to them.

I’m not sure what your idea of more balanced rewards entails, and certainly if you have specifics in mind, you should post them where devs might be able to see them, but i don’t see how the problem possibly can be as severe as you are making it out to be.

maddoctor.2738:

You mean the most grindy effortless activities aren’t the most rewarding in this game?

I don’t think a good reward system need be one in which the most “fun” content is also the most efficient.
apart from the obvious problem that multiple different types and categories of content can be considered fun and there is no real metric to measure the average fun yielded by content, this would require all content to yield rewards proportionate to time invested, which is the most easily exploitable system i can think of offhand (and would lead to a worse outcome than grinding; deliberately prolonging content as long as you can stand to, or even just sitting idle while the minutes/hours/days rack up)

I also disagree that most MMOs implement a good system, and that GW2 isn’t one of them. I don’t think either of those things are true, but those are harder points to argue because they’re based on my subjective (typically negative and typically positive, respectively) experiences.

maddoctor.2738:

Khalisto.5780:

pve is not meant to be played as a fun thing, it’s a gold farm tool, everybody is bored from day 1

A good reward system puts the most efficient way to earn rewards behind the most exciting and fun content possible. And in lots of MMORPGs that’s true but in GW2 is the complete opposite, the more boring and un-interesting an activity is, the more efficient it is for rewards… You can be excited about PVE if the reward system isn’t horrible and based on endless grind.

I disagree entirely.

Sylvari! all the way. for them, it would be more like being a druid – fleshy druids conjure with living wood, woody sylvari conjure with dead flesh =)

I found one of the boosts rewarded at the end of the personal story had become a heroic booster.
Not disappointed. I don’t even remember what that boost used to be.

ArchonWing.9480:

Behellagh.1468:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

my personal favorite is the black lion pack on sale from 2000 gems down to 1600 gems… at a reported 44% off discount……………… maths not they strong suit I guess

Nope, that was 2880 down to 1600 so it was 44%. Since the before price has a strike though, the 8s looked very much like a 0. But you see the 8 is narrower than the 0.

LOL, I didn’t even notice that; I just thought Anet couldn’t do math. Ah, but it certainly isn’t worth that huge amount of gems though.

At the release of drytop there was a zephyrite… something or other pack, which included 15 (or maybe just 10) BLKs for less than the price of that many keys on their own.
That one i actually bought.

xarallei.4279:

Anet is adding a pvp legendary. I will most likely never get this because I don’t really pvp. That is fine. People need to learn that they can’t get everything they want, not unless they put in the effort.

And when I say more rewards, I don’t even necessarily mean skins. More gold is fine too.

What level of effort should be required to justify a given reward? how do you tell how much effort people have put in? How do you deal with a majority of people putting in ‘enough’ effort but being dragged down by a minority who do not? do you punish the many to spite the few?

What percentage of players should have access to rewards? at present it’s close to 100% – this means that there are a few people dissatisfied because they could not get a reward from, lets say the VW event. Another few people are dissatisfied because they feel not everyone deserves the reward, like yourself. Who do you attempt to please? why? Would you spend more real money on gems if there were more content that excluded casual players? enough to make up for the loss of those players currency when they get fed up and go elsewhere? enough to compensate for lost sales if GW2 becomes considered a “hardcore only” game?

These are all real concerns, and need answers/solutions.

xarallei.4279:

Anyway, back to SW. I think it’s a step in the right direction overall. The mobs are harder than other zones, but they could do better. Fortunately it does seem like VB is improved in this regard.

in general, i agree. it’s difficult without being punishing, but that’s a fine line to tread. VW was on the wrong side of it for a while, as i said. Should it then be buffed, to make it harder? I guarantee that would yield an outcry as people who had been confident in their competence suddenly find they’re not up to spec anymore.

The question is, really, how hard you have to work before you feel the reward is ‘deserved’. I’m fairly sure you would have met that requirement at VW release, with multiple carriers lost every round, the event often failing or sometimes scraping through by a tiny margin. I don’t think the encounter’s been nerfed since then; it’s only that you and/or the average participant has gotten better at what they do. a small minority may be AA heroes, but a good portion of the people do actually do real work to complete the encounter, making full and effective use of their skills to ensure it succeeds. That doesn’t feel like work because it’s not challenging; but challenge is difficult to maintain. It’s a combination of uncertain outcome, unpredictable variables, and general unfamiliarity with what is needed. How do you maintain those elements in permanent content?

xarallei.4279:

Faceroll content should not give good rewards. It’s bad for the game and teaches people this whole lazy “gimme everything for nothing” type attitude that seems to infect the game.

If they are going to leave it in, then fine. But harder content should reward way more.

Yes, it should. but when they put in harder content and it proves unrewarding andd unenjoyable because the majority do not meet the high standard set, and thus the average is below the requirements, will you be disappointed to never be able to access those rewards? would you add your voice to the outcry? because i guarantee there will be one, and it will drown out your single voice whether raised to the same chorus or not.

wetwillyhip.7254:

Still waiting…. Gaile Gray please respond. Where do you stand with this?

i highly doubt that, even if her position differs from the devs, she’d be willing to voice that on a public forum where her actions are expected to aid the company’s interests.

An explanation of the official position would be nice, still.

I’m not sure but i think the value of the bag slots + bank tabs togethe is less than the total cost of the package.

It’s just account bound dye + some other thing thrown in to pad it out.

Edit: nvm, it’s right on value. but char bag slots are a pretty poor deal anyway. I’m really disappointed they haven’t yet become account bound or at least dropped to a more reasonable price.

as much as my sylvari’s new anim upsets me, that asura one hurts me more. Like… why would you change something that amazing? Snarf balance. Things should look cool first and foremost. Balance brings blandity.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Cool idea! I’ll think about it a bit and maybe try out some things.

An actual “vanish in a puff of mist and reappear at the end of the dodge” effect would look so amazing.

Of course, i have no idea how difficult that could be to implement >.>

xarallei.4279:

Silver Wastes is an interesting map. I do like the mobs there. But Vinewrath is too easy for my taste. The fight was sort of like a take on Marionette, but Marionette is far, far superior.

Vinewrath would regularly fail when it first came out, same as marionette. What you are seeing is not an overnerfed encounter but rather one in which the majority of people know what’s expected of them and are able to perform that role sufficiently to the encounters requirements.

xarallei.4279:

And one thing I hate about SW is the chest farm. I’m baffled as to why the hell Anet decided to add such an abomination to the game. Running around ignoring events and digging up chests like a braindead monkey gives you the best loot. It’s ridiculous. I really hope they’ve learned their lesson and refrain from adding anything like that in HoT.

It’s been heavily nerfed, and – how can i put this? – if you don’t like it, don’t do it. Digging up chests when and as you come across the sand piles during events will consume most or all of your shovels (and it’s not like those things have an expiry date) for the same rewards, just… less condensed, and without you being able to leech off other people who’re using up their stockpile of spades.

what’s to explain? it’s not a jp, just a p.

All three of the order npcs are alive and well. well, okay, only two of them. Whichever order you picked, that npc is well dead.

so if you hadn’t picked the order of whispers, tybalt would still be alive. He died as a direct consequence of your choices and actions. Were it not for you, he’d still be alive and well (albeit still missing an arm)

Trahearne is the LEAST of what you deserve.

Wall.. of… text….

also, why would you disclaim that your suggestions are good? I’m not sure you understand what a disclaimer is for

AllNightPlayer.1286:

For those, who will never forget and never forgive:

The Good ==> The Ugly

Good Asura ==> Ugly Asura
Good Charr ==> Ugly Charr
Good Norn ==> Ugly Norn
Good Males ==> Ugly Males
Good Females ==> Ugly Females

That’s some talent.

It can’t be emulated perfectly, i don’t believe, but here’s something moderately close:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAGA-TRxLABooMLD1f6QpRjKBBQHAA-e

if you want to use ascended gear, you end up having to sacrifice a lot more vitality or precision.

what’s the attribute combination?

we had things like this in gw1, didn’t we?
i remember something that would make your hands leave sparkles…

Hmm, thanks, i’ll take another look at her

Coulter.2315:

Narrrz.7532:

Necro are really strong for solo pve play (or so i’ve found)
they lack utility more than damage in dungeons, but yeah, on balance they are underpar.
Mesmer is one class i’m glad i’ve already done world compl on, because i would not want to do that with them in their present state.

Mesmers are currently stronger than at any time in their past history.

In pvp, quite possibly; in pve, maybe, but they’re a lot more complicated than at any other time (to do well; in my experience)

I always liked him, and my most recent story completion (2-3 days ago) hasn’t dimmed that.

He’s the reluctant hero archetype, except he’s foisted into a position of leadership because he’s the guy who knows the most about the enemy. He’s no general, nor even particularly a warrior – but he has plenty of those, of all kinds, from the three orders.

He doesn’t steal your thunder at all – whenever someone is like, “hey well done Trahearne!” he immediately passes the credit on to you.

I think people just hate him because he replaces your order mentors, who weren’t around long enough to be written into the ground. I never particularly liked any of them except maybe Leftpaw, and i could easily see myself getting sick of him had he stuck around much longer. Too cliche’d a character – and not even all that different from Trahearne, just less serious.

If the support team can see it’s a player that’s not logged in for some time, you have a shot, i’d say.
If it’s an active account, especially if they’ve already retrieved the sent items, i’d say no hope in hell (unless you can convince them to be kindhearted)

personally, i, ah, i THINK i’d probably return the items. 60-ish gold worth of ectos is quite a lot but not an overwhelming amount. If it was 10x that amount, i’d have a much harder moral dilemma

Necro are really strong for solo pve play (or so i’ve found)
they lack utility more than damage in dungeons, but yeah, on balance they are underpar.
Mesmer is one class i’m glad i’ve already done world compl on, because i would not want to do that with them in their present state.

daze is either longer than stun (marginally; exclusions apply) or else stun is conditional, with daze being applied instead if the condition is not met.

BrokenGlass.9356:

A few things to clear up.

I don’t want a trinity. At all. (Hold your misconceptions till the end please.)

Even if you buff healing by some odd 300% (I don’t want this) you still aren’t at the trinity…. why?

AGGRO.

The only class with a taunt that I am aware of is ranger… and its on the pet… and we all know how quick they (even bears) die under fire.

Mobs get upset with you for being top dps, application of the most conditions, proximity, ammount of toughness, target swap built into AI and damage dealt, including damage from AoE and cleve.

So no matter how much they buff anything, there cant be a trinity.

Now could there be a “holy binary?”

I hope not.

This tread isnt about “how to make healing power manditory.”

It isnt about “how to make healers (as in non dps. Eg: WoW’s ‘holy’ priest.) viable in all content”

Its about how to make healing power worth taking

Ferocity is worth taking… but do we all use it?

Toughness is worth taking…. do we all use it?

Are ferocity or toughness manditory?

Some of you are gonna say yes to ferocity… but sinister disagrees with you.

I already ignore the meta. I’ve found very few “meta” players I want to group with twice.

I want the state of the builds in the game to be such that when people look up “how should I build my dude? Cause I lack the creativity to come up with something.” They should find more than one build.

Also that build has a high skill cap.

So if you run with your ’zerk friends and all keep up 25 might and scholar bonuses, more power to you. Literally. (See what I did there?)

I want to be able play what I want. I also want to be able to help people with no creativity, or skill from having a bad time all night.

I don’t want to force you to take stats you don’t like, or think are sub optimal.

I want healing power to be a worthwhile option. And it is now… in the way conditions were befor june 23rd.

the core problem is that a strengthened healing power attribute still won’t be ‘worth taking’ for pve. There’s no real condition pressure in pve, and all classes have sufficient access to condi cleanse to (mostly) deal with the little that there is.

Toughness is simply a far, far better investment point for point – your 300% numbers aren’t far off. that would equate to about a 50-60% boost to base healing strength from an investment of 1000 points – about where toughness is now (toughness is actually even stronger than this, proportionally, at the 500 point mark). Given that toughness also extends your vitality buffer vs direct damage, it’s still going to be a preferable attribute until/unless we see conditions becoming an overwhelming force in pve, which would, to me, feel like an arbitrary forced change to attempt to strengthen vitality and healing relative to toughness

Of course, that 300% increase can’t apply to pvp. Healing is already, if not ‘strong’, then at least viable and useful, so a change of this magnitude would require separate healing power ratios for pve & pvp. As i see it, if an attribute is so dysfunctional that making it balanced requires a multiplier edging towards an order of magnitude difference between pve & pvp, it’s time to rethink that attribute.

The tested average of the mystic salvage vs lvl 80 rares is just shy of 9 ectos per 10 salvages.

I think my personal average is still somewhere better than this, it’s not uncommon for me to wind up with more ectos than i salvaged items.

Randomity is random.

certain instant skills will still function. On my guard, i can use judges intervention to escape.
But on my thief i’m pretty kittened =/ good thing i pvp so little

This is the sort of thing a custom ui would be amazing for.

I can’t envision anywhere one the present interface where it could be put without cluttering the view up even more. it’s an interesting idea though

Actually, yeah. Very this.

+1

I’d like the full range from GW1 free (holy crap there were a lot) but give us a gemstore buy for alternate animations? maybe? like the alternate dances

Given that all silverwastes events are fixed-spawn or set duration, i don’t think they’ll run ito the same issues there.

If we do get early rev, i think i’d probably save/use my tomes for spirit shards, and just level them the proper way.

It’s been a while. Could be fun to do it again!

Scipion.7548:

The Master.2893:

I apologize if someone above already posted this… however this game was specifically designed to “not have the traditional MMORPG ‘holy trinity’ of tank, dps, and healer”.

So they made it so that nobody could heal, or even pure tank for that matter. And everyone had DPS options.

IF they buffed healing, which is a fair contention, they would “break their pledge to not have a holy trinity”.

“Not have the traditionnal holy trinity” doesnt mean tanks and healers are missing. It means tanks and healers arent required in any content.
In fact Anet tried to replace it by another trinity, DPS/control/support. And if support is not heal, heal is support.
So some classes, when specialized in support, should tend to be playable as “healer” (a la gw2, not 100% dedicated healer ok). And in fact, Ele and Engi can (and some other classes in lesser extent). But the PvE content is so trivial and the healing power so worthless, this support style is useless. Not because Anet wanted that, but because Anet failed.

I think it’s more that they underestimated just how much damage could be negated through skillful play. They put in obvious, telegraphed, high damage mechanics but then found that even the normal boss damage could largely be mitigated & healed through.
Not wanting to punish everyone in order to arbitrarily force reliance on healing isn’t what i’d call a failure, just a design decision.

keeping healing power as an attribute when the current design doesn’t reward investment in it, that’s what i’d call failure.

Fenom.9457:

Then why can I still play season two?

Because you are not the first person to post something like this.

niea.7504:

Mini wall of text, but the words scattered about in all caps give it appeal.

+1
would +2 if i could be certain you were sarcastic.

OP: LS is short for living story. Can you go back and revisit earlier times in your life?

…wait? you can? how? YOU MUST TELL ME! I COMMAND YOU TO TELL ME!