Will you guys continue to release another elite specialisation for next week or take another long break? Just glad to know we get to see the Tempest tomorrow, after such a long wait.
Necros and guards really feel like an uphill battle now. Eles and mesmers are a real toss up depending on the relative skill levels. I’m having decent success with S/D DA/CS/T right now. I wouldn’t recommend either defensive trait line right now as the marginal defensive gains don’t compare with the DPS lost. The longer a fight draws out, the more at a disadvantage you’ll be.
I don’t think we need any more health or damage, just an un-nerfing to our defensive lines.
Your Defidently right about all that, glasscannon should still get a small buff, becuase it is way to hard to fight with 11,645 health Mabye bringing it back to around 14,000 like before the patch would be ok.
Talking about berserker amulet? Cause we’ve got marauder now.
I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.
“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.
In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.
High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.
If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.
Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.
Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.
You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.
Your post doesn’t make sense. What are you trying to prove here?==
If you have something worthwhile to say then say it. If something as simple as logic goes over your head why admit it? I was having a discussion and it wasn’t with you. Does that clarify thing?
Hey bimbo, saw your post about how D/P is overpowered, looks like you don’t know kitten about thieves or any other classes that exist in the game. Warriors can disengage with mobility and stances, Mesmers can disangage with stealth(they don’t need the mobility since they’ve got invulnerablility). Guild Wars 1? Please don’t go too far off topic. Don’t you get the point? Thieves have been nerfed till we can’t stand against the majority of the builds out there. They’re either too tanky or out-burst this class. What gills? Guilds?
I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.
“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.
In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.
High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.
If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.
Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.
Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.
You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.
Your post doesn’t make sense. What are you trying to prove here?==
Actually I was running in WvW and a thief backstabbed my ranger for 14.5k damage, insane damage, didn’t know he was there, no chance to do anything about it.
Lemme guess, you were on your LB power pew pew build huh? Trying to take out some up-levels or afks?
The real questions are a bit mean but probably are the root to the issue. Will an experienced thief who does not overextend have issues with survivability? If your glass and you miss your burst and get punished is that really an issue of a 2,000-3,000 hp?
Imho their isn’t an issue on this class but most of the others. In a burst meta the burst class is king. A well played thief will down anything he or she likes including other thieves. to say, “This class needs a buff!” in this meta without considering the others is a bit silly.
What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.
arguable…. i do not enjoy current 1-shot meta but nether i enjoyed last meta where it took ages to kill celestial classes (if sometimes impossible when they chained their skills)
i agree dmg is high atm, from everyone and needs to be toned down but what really needs to happen is ALL classes should have same risk vs reward correlation
what was wrong with last meta? bruiser being too bunkery while dishing out too much dmg
what is wrong with current meta? classes able to dish extremely high dmg while having multiple (good) ways of survival~
this power creep is just wrong
having dps/roamers with high dmg and survival is wrong
having bunkers/bruisers pulling way too much dmg is wrong
simple mechanics, bad positioning, passive gameplay being rewarding is wrong
Problem is: anet doesn’t see balance the way we see it. For them balance mostlikely is: oh this class is underplayed, let’s throw some buffs. Oh this class is played a lot let’s throw some nerfs. Oh, we are adding new class that might not have a job because of the existing classes? Let’s nerf those classes. Plus there are those privat skype messages from few biased top players that actually reach devs.
Think most of em still don’t get it but +1 for this. Thanks for helping me explain. At least Revenant will be getting all the attention(nerf) now.
When is it? Next week? Maybe after next week? I’m tired of waiting. I know you guys have a lot to do but giving us a hint of when is MAY be wouldn’t hurt right? PLEASEEE.
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Id say maybe 1-2k up more at lvl 80, but no more. Thieves are either a glassy slayer that hits 18k backstabs or a tool who runs no skill condi. And condi is the “tank” build since you can take vitality in armour. If you are dying too much and don’t want condi, maybe swap some zerker out for something with a little tough/vit on it. Or you could run shadow thief. The best way to tank is to avoid it all together. Do this with blinds, stealth, and dodges.
sigh scroll back and read. I don’t like repeating.
Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool
Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?
Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.
It doesn’t matter if the HP increase would be to medium or the highest health pools. Without improved active defence, the extra padding with more vitality melts really fast.
You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right?
I compared equivalent stat choices for same HP pool classes, ele can die even faster than a thief if hit by the same attack. And it is due to current overbuffed dmg everyone has that the lowest HP classes can die in 1 hit. Why should a thief class be an exception and get more HP to cope with the dmg currently in the game. The solution to that is to nerf dmg output across all classes, not give 1 class more HP.
Because this thread is meant for legitimate points.
What makes a point not legitimate? The fact that someone doens’t agree with you?
ok,give thief the ele active defense,almost perma protection,and self sustain. i will be happy to stay with this on low hp pool.
Guys does my post request the devs to not improve our traits? I only posted things that state how useless the dev is to our class, you know that guy who doesn’t give a kitten about this class. The one who forgets the name of thief traits during live stream.== Anyway of course I would appreciate it if they’d give us old feline grace and SE back. I’m just asking for them to increase our vitality as well so we won’t drop in a couple of Aoes so quickly. If only our vitality were same to engis and mesmers then we won’t have to spent much for vit in WvWvW, doesn’t this allow us contribute to other things like Precision or toughness? Yes, I understand thieves aren’t meant to tank, but I’m positively sure that increasing our vitality will help prevent us from dropping flies and assist us by providing the time to react to burst from other classes. As a thief player from almost a year and a half I’ve seen what people requested from this forum, request that are usually obvious nerfs. I’ve seen enough of them ask for feline grace nerf, SE, shadow rejuvenate etc, it’s endless look it up. To my absolute surprise they actually listened to them or were too inexperienced to balance it due to the lack of test. The nerfs are so ridiculous sometimes that I suspect they only test it on golems in Heart of Mist.
So you know it already.
Whats the point of having higher hp when we doesnt have those traits back or further solution? yes we may a bit tanky but the main problem would be still same. and as someone stated above there is almost 0% chance that dev will increase thief’s vitality higher chance would be trait fix.
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.
You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.
higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
or…in short…more vitality…lol ppl these days….
lol people with l2p issues only want thief to have more vitality pssh.
That’s why threads like this serve as a request you fool. Only want vitality? You kidding me?== I recommend you troll another thread.
More than half of people on this thread disagree with u increasing hp for thief so they must be trolling as well?
nope,only you.
Most here agree with it,and you are just a bad troll which obviously seen too much gameplay of thief rather than playing one.You cant say thief dosnt need vitality while there is a straight forward anomaly in proffesions base health which clearly shown thief got the lowest with no logic behind it.
scroll up and check it out u are obviously blind and i bet i have more time spent on thief than u salty boy. So u want thief to have just more vitality instead of SE/FG back? obviously u got no logic behind it and got no experience about thief at all.
facepalm if you’re replying to prove that you actually know a thing or two just for your ego then I suggest you stop your track on this thread. Because this thread is meant for legitimate points. Lemme ask give you a few questions to think about. First would be, does increasing our vitality give us the chance to not sacrifice a few points in WvWvW for vitality? Second would be does the dev(you know who) actually know what his doing with the class? Is he actually capable of proper scrutinising before a nerf? Does vitality actually not help during fights from conditions and physical power? When we get hit toughness can only do so much until our vitality drops, conditions ignore toughness btw.
Guys does my post request the devs to not improve our traits? I only posted things that state how useless the dev is to our class, you know that guy who doesn’t give a kitten about this class. The one who forgets the name of thief traits during live stream.== Anyway of course I would appreciate it if they’d give us old feline grace and SE back. I’m just asking for them to increase our vitality as well so we won’t drop in a couple of Aoes so quickly. If only our vitality were same to engis and mesmers then we won’t have to spent much for vit in WvWvW, doesn’t this allow us contribute to other things like Precision or toughness? Yes, I understand thieves aren’t meant to tank, but I’m positively sure that increasing our vitality will help prevent us from dropping flies and assist us by providing the time to react to burst from other classes. As a thief player from almost a year and a half I’ve seen what people requested from this forum, request that are usually obvious nerfs. I’ve seen enough of them ask for feline grace nerf, SE, shadow rejuvenate etc, it’s endless look it up. To my absolute surprise they actually listened to them or were too inexperienced to balance it due to the lack of test. The nerfs are so ridiculous sometimes that I suspect they only test it on golems in Heart of Mist.
I agree with the OP. I have over 3k hours on my thief, mained since pre-launch, but this is making me log in less and less. If Thief is not playable in a close-to-balanced state as it has been before(compared to now), I’ll end up quitting GW2.
Primarily because the unbalance is at a state where it is absolutely not fun to play. All character classes except Necro has some sort of invulnerability skill. Mesmers out-stealth thief, HOW is this even possible? What logic does this have. Mesmers are supposed to be master of illusion, not stealth, yet they surpass the mastery of stealth Thief is supposed to have.
Thief’s damage is not the problem. The survivability is. Thief vs Thief is basically about who initiates and how agressively. Burst or be bursted. Thief vs other classes? Well, if they use invulnerabilty skills it’s kinda kitten, considering we have none of those. Stealth you say? Whats the point if other classes’ skills keep tracking a thief after stealth? Sure, we can still beat other classes, but not when they are running troll builds that thief has NO WAY of possibly countering. What’s up with Guardian’s Symbols killing a thief in 1-2 ticks???? Dodge you say? We would if we had Feline Grace. Basically all Guardians have to do is attack until a thief dodges twice, and then just put down a couple of symbols.
I’m sorry about this rant, but I’m sure the majority of the thief community will agree things are not looking good, and the person that was supposed to look out for our balance has absolutely no idea what he is doing. I thank him for the work thus far, but it’s far beyond time to admit things aren’t looking good, and the interest in that class is close to null, if not null itself.
If you’d like to know what has kept me playing so long, nerf after nerf, is due to how the Thief was primarily designed, pre-launch. The foundations it was built on made us capable, even after nerfs, of beating other classes. We were called OP, time after time, and nerfs were applied, and we still won. Again, we can still beat some players, but it’s not even fulfilling.
To know we’re not on equal fighting ground is just wrong. To know the one in charge of our class forgets about traits is just wrong. To know we’re 3 years into this game and we’re having an issue like this is just wrong. Of course, separating stats from traits, and doing other alterations ofr the sake of “balance” were bound to to bring issues with it. We all know that. But things like the trait redesign that were more susceptible to Human decision rather than coding variables is what struck me the most. Some of our traits alterations are so unjustified it’s just.. wrong.
Btw, I think he didn’t stated that he liked a very large amount of HP like what a warrior does. We are on the same boat of increasing the amount of hp similar to what Mesmers and Rangers have.
I simply dislike the idea of turning thief class into warrior, we are supposed to be squishy and to avoid dmg instead of soaking it. If you want to facetank dmg flying at you, reroll.
Yet you keep comparing the most op class atm with thief to validate your reasons to give thief more HP.
Whether you think devs care or not, it’s way more likely traits/skill would be changed instead of our HP pool.
Perhaps you should check other subforums, you’d find a thread where a devs agrees that all dmg sources are currently strong. Oh hey, if the problem is being 1 shot after dmg was buffed, why increase HP instead of reducing the dmg output across all classes? So it’s okay to 1 shot other classes but thief should be given more HP to deal with the insane burst? In case you forgot, ele and guardians also have the lowest health pool, if you stab zerker ele for 10-15k, he won’t outheal that while he is rolling his face in dirt.
Regarding condi, they are problem if you don’t use shadow embrace or you fight a pu mes, which was overbuffed. Thieves had issues with condis when using no SE even before. If built for condi removal, current zerker thief can fight and kill pu mes much easier than other classes can. Oh pu mes can reset and come back to kill a thief, get real, thieves have been doing this since launch.
I simply dislike the idea of turning thief class into warrior, we are supposed to be squishy and to avoid dmg instead of soaking it. If you want to facetank dmg flying at you, reroll.
That was my whole point. Thanks.
I don’t even understand why some of people want thief to have vitality increase.
We did absolutely fine before the patch even with low hp pool.
Only reason we are having hard time surviving out there right now is not because of HP pool.
And thief doesnt mean to have high hp pool like a warrior dont forget we are THIEF.
We just need buffs/revert on our survivability on traits/utility skills.
Jayden already stated most of it.
Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.
You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.
higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
or…in short…more vitality…lol ppl these days….
lol people with l2p issues only want thief to have more vitality pssh.
That’s why threads like this serve as a request you fool. Only want vitality? You kidding me?== I recommend you troll another thread.
More than half of people on this thread disagree with u increasing hp for thief so they must be trolling as well?
Increasing HP on thief wont solve the main problems we have right now.
If u want high hp pool go play warrior or necromancer. I dont want thief to be a meatshield.
Nope, I don’t clearly see his argument as a l2p issue. Thing is, the Thief class has the lowest base HP in the game. We can deal with that if only the evade frame windows and condi cleanses are all a-ok. But since we don’t have them our only choice of build is either run an ‘all-in’ glass cannon, or increase health by using health boosting equipments, resulting to a loss of the glass-cannon build.
Lack of sustain, evade frame windows, and stealth durations make this class hard to make it work at all. Considering that what the thief can do, mesmers can do it technically better and with a higher amount of hp.
Thief mechanics = confusion, diversion with stealth as primary
Mesmer mechanics = diversion, confusion through illusions with stealth as secondary
Thief base health + vit @ level 80 = 10,905
Mesmer base health + vit @ level 80 = 15,182
Clearly, the mechanics of what these two classes can do and their HP difference shows the lack of attention the devs giving to this class. Btw, I think he didn’t stated that he liked a very large amount of HP like what a warrior does. We are on the same boat of increasing the amount of hp similar to what Mesmers and Rangers have.
I am also extremely annoyed by steal’s cd increase, the fact that they make you choose between condi and boon removal SE nerf, and the fact they premptively nerfed stolen items because they thought we would use it. All that on top of nerfing acro line to the ground which is a juge hit to my survivability in pve. They van take F2 back as long as I can have steal on 17s cd again.
Yeah. Assuming everyone would use it. Prejudice fool!
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet.
You can keep dreaming anet will never increase thief’s vitality.
higher chance of fixing out currents trait or skills.
NO thief does not need vitality increase.
we just need more surviving tools on skills or utility skills and some of our old trait back
Don’t you guys get it? The dev that’s working on this class is a complete screw up and doesn’t give a d*mn about the class. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be getting the traits back because of how notoriously ignorant Anet can be. Even IF we got the traits back Anet’s just gonna nerf our other advantage, it’s just the matter of time. I’m going to state it once again, increasing our vitality causes us to not sacrifice too much in terms of stat survivability. That’s all I really want right now. Saying something like “Oh, increasing our vitality doesn’t change anything” is just completely foolish. Fine, decrease any class’s base vitality and you’ll see how much their survivability would plummet. Have some common sense guys.
Replace Vennom Siphon with Cloacked in Shadows, mix that trait with Venom Share. As for the rest I agree with what you’ve stated and that you know who should be replaced with someone who actually cares.
No, this is not overpowered. It’s the only thing the class has going for it. Also, it’s not like it’s free use after the Cd is up, a Rev pilot has to carefully balance their skill usage with their energy pool. Thief initiative is currently more overpowered than revenant skill cds with the limiting pool.
Don’t be a prejudice scrub, thief initiative skills cost a load. You can’t really spam them unless you wanna die quickly.
So every ranger using Sic ‘em is a scrub? Every engi with analyze? Seriously? Do you always throw a tantrum when someone disagrees with you? These skills are niche abilities to counter stealth — most people do what I do and swap them in as soon as I see a thief on the horizon, *why wouldnt’ they use these skills*? I play thief as well as Ranger/Engi, I know how the skills work. I know from experience that thieves can still out-play based on positioning and evasions, from both sides of the engagement. Being unwilling to use evasion skills when they are needed is like being unwilling to dodgeroll, you deserve to take that hit if you don’t actively counter it. I’m not saying constantly deathblossom, but if you are stuck revealed and are out of dodgerolls and have big hits coming in? Why would you not use it?
Yes, I would like it if thieves got a vitality buff, but my reasoning for this has a lot more to do with the condition dmg changes and the changes to thieves condi removal rather than the revealed effects of Sic ’em and Analyze.
And seriously? “Duel me bro”? lol.[/quote]
So what are you trying to prove here? That we’re capable of outplaying other classes of equal skill? Haven’t you seen power rangers running sic em? And yes some engis do run analyse to fight PU mesmers or make thieves lunch. Majority of the thieves now run d/p due to the versatility provided with the set. D/d thieves as well as s/d thieves are rare now. Tantrum? More like annoyed. To prove a point? Ugh you and I both know that it’ll only be a waste of time but if I have the opportunity then yes why not have a nice duel. If you say that thieves are able to outplay their opponents before patch then yeah I’ll agree as of now Decent of Shadows is in GM. So you know what I mean. In the end though the whole point of this thread would be the request of gaining an increase in base vitality.
You don’t have to worry one bit if you’re in spvp cause you either reset quick or spawn back fast when killed. The frustration of being Sic em and mauled down by some pew pew ranger in open field isn’t the best experience in WvWvW. Fine shortbow3 but what if you didn’t bring a weapon that evades or if shortbow is on cool down. Those guys are just scrubs but if you go head on against a truly good player with a tough build/class to fight against, hmp! You will feel hopeless, without a doubt.
So, are you complaining about a skill designed to be counterplay against stealth, working as a counter to stealth? Imo, if you are against a build/class that is designed to be effective against stealthers (Sic ‘em, Analyze etc) then yes, you SHOULD be at a disadvantage, otherwise that is not a viable build path on that other class. Don’t forget that those skills are for a special purpose and are inferior in-slot to many other utilities if used in a general sense against all non-stealthing classes. IE: those classes have taken a hit to their general effectiveness to be able to deal with stealthers.
Also: if the players are of a similar skill level, it is NOT an insta-kill ability. Thieves can have the highest level of mobility which will render melee useless in those 6-8s of revealed, and that same mobility can (if you are a good player) help you LOS to mitigate ranged dmg. On top of this there are many skills that the thief has that provide extra evasion (Death blossom, Withdraw, Roll for initiative, Evasive shot, Flanking strike).
There is no such thing as ‘CAUGHT’ in an open field in a 1v1 scenario, for a thief. Unless you are totally unaware that another player has been running towards you for the last 10s, you have plenty of time to disengage via stealth — before the enemy is in range to use Sic ’em or such. You are choosing to fight that ranger/engi in that terrain, and that is a poor choice made by you. If you think the enemy might be packing these skills you should instead refuse to fight until you can position in terrain better suited to you: forests, hilly/rocky areas/ruins etc.
I have no sympathy for those who want to be able to 1v1 any profession/build without changing their own set-up or tactics. Every profession should have a hard time against another profession that has built to counter them.
All that said, I would enjoy thieves getting a vitality buff — atm I feel I need to go Condi to have better survivability. I enjoy condi thief, but thematically I like direct damage as well as the general playstyle.
Yes scrubs run Sic em all the time. So why aren’t we given something to counter play other classes? Stolen items? Right… I’d expect you to kill engi with gunk. Atm the thief is almost countered by every class, placed at an obvious disadvantage. See you’ve even said that added vitality would be nice ==. You know I’d really like to duel you with my engi and show you how much of a pain ANALYSE can be. Death blossom pshhhh Flanking Strike? Are you even aware of the new patch? I agree with what you’ve stated about terrain but once you get on other classes you don’t even need a hill to gank other player of equal skill. Basically the thief is at every single disadvantage in terms of duels. (provided that they’re dueling experienced players of course)
15 ini should be baseline and boonsteal on steal should be baseline. Period. Giving Mesmer IP baseline is like giving thief sleight of hand baseline. But I’m not even asking for that. Just make 15 ini and steal boonsteal baseline at the very least.
Damage is just currently that ridiculous in the game.
Seems like most people forget we just had a major balance patch and those always bring some ridiculous specs so comparing thief vs mesmer to reason for higher HP request is just a knee jerk reaction.
Everyone’s dmg was buffed, even dev said that all dmg sources are strong currently so it’s more likely anet will reduce the dmg than give thieves higher HP.
Personally, I don’t think thief class should be balanced by slapping on some extra stats, the class is all about active defense, if needed, those should be buffed.
We had “active defense before” but guess what? It got nerf to bits because of some newbie’s complain. Slapping on a few stats will dramatically increase our survivability, once that’s settled. The devs can then proceed with their roller coaster so called balance trend. Who knows maybe backstab might get a buff or nerf.
While this may help in some fights (thief vs thief for example) I doubt you’d see any difference going against other classes. Simply put our base would need a 10K+ increase for any of it to even get close to mattering.
Think i’m full of it I’m sure right?
Go put on full sentinels gear with intelligence sigils and crit/shadow/X build in WvW. All items, armor, weapons, jewlery. You’ll have a crap load of hp, 24-26k. Your power with food can easily reach into the 2200 (or higher) range. That ain’t bad for non berserker gear. But you will still get run over by some classes regardless of the higher hp. Damage is just currently that ridiculous in the game.
Simply put, HP isn’t gonna help us, we lack the mitigation or out right invulnerability every other class has access to and that’s what is gonna keep killing us.
Berserk back piece was used as i dont remember ever getting Sents for that slot.
Remember while using current builders, that build went as one of the most unkillable builds you could run. It didn’t kill super fast but it was the best distraction you could ask for for team efforts. Acrobatics was often used more often then trickery back then, just to point out.
Thieves are usually great in team fights so why contribute as a distractor when you can lay down dps support which in turn provides more benefit. Let other classes do the tanking, our clutch is stealth, yes you can stealth your teammates but once you’re in stealth your team gets focused. Basically we’re not good tankers in terms of helping teammates. Also a number of you don’t seem to get the point of this thread, this thread is a simple request to increase every thief’s vitality to match other medium classes. By doing this it’ll solve a load of problems in terms of survivability.
Even if what you said is true,and even if anet would browse thief forums they would not take you seriously,cause this is just pure rant. If they will listen to every guy who rage and rant about anything this game would be disastrous. We should get thier attantion,if we are being serious in a more formality way rather than exploding.
Ask any other veteran thief if they would disagree with me on this. Rage? Rant? Even if I’m raging, my statements still had points in them. Disastrous? Your comment is a disaster. I don’t expect them to reply me, all I want is an increase in vitality for thief.
I guess I’d rather they help us out on survivability rather than a HP increase. I don’t want to tank, but I do want better ways to avoid direct damage and mitigate condi pressure.
Buffing the minor traits in acro would go a long way towards helping. Also SA traits should just be front loaded to “[effect] on gaining stealth.” Note this isn’t on entering stealth, so shadow refuge would cause the effect on each pulse. Some effects would have to be nerfed slightly, but it should balance out and promote attacking faster from stealth.
Examples:
Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Gain 600 health and 1 initiative on gaining stealth.
Shadow’s Embrace: Remove a condition on gaining stealth (yeah it doesn’t pulse anymore, but heartseekering through BPS 3 times removes 3 condis, Shadow Refuge removes 5, etc.)
Cloaked in Shadow: Cause blind in an area on gaining stealth (this would pulse with Shadow Refuge).
Cloak and Dagger combined with Cloaked in Shadow wouldn’t hurt.
You don’t have to worry one bit if you’re in spvp cause you either reset quick or spawn back fast when killed. The frustration of being Sic em and mauled down by some pew pew ranger in open field isn’t the best experience in WvWvW. Fine shortbow3 but what if you didn’t bring a weapon that evades or if shortbow is on cool down. Those guys are just scrubs but if you go head on against a truly good player with a tough build/class to fight against, hmp! You will feel hopeless, without a doubt.
Yes mitigate damage but I would like you to think about it, if we’ve got the same hp pool as engis for example we won’t have to worry about spending points in vitality for WvWvW anymore thus increasing our diversity with builds. Mesmers aren’t afraid to go full glass due to their hp pool you know. Yes they wear light armor BUT they can insta kill you once they enter stealth(longer than thieves if traited). As for us we need to get a backstab off in order to produce maximum burst and that requires you to stand behind your opponents. Once they turn around at the right time you lose half your backstab dmg. Fine sneak attack may be decent but more than half of p/p skills provide no dmg mitigation once we’re revealed.
I seriously think we need this. The devs doesn’t have an excuse to not do it since Feline Grace and SE are close to being redundant. Especially with PU mesmers 1 shorting every squishy in WvWvW, cele engis with ANALyse, condi rangers with sic em and good med guards banishing every single thief who are foolish enough to stand against them. All I can do now is burst or run if I miss it. It was tough duelling another good player before but it’s almost impossible now if they’re tanky enough. ==http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z6gG3tKDBlk/maxresdefault.jpg
The entire Prefix bonus system needs a rework. Too many combinations are locked behind rare (ie expensive), deprecated, or deep achievement oriented PvE content. And with all of our stats being pushed onto gear, the entire Exotic gear table has turned into an utter mess for anything not part of the original prefixs.
Whats that you say? Ascended gear isn’t as limited in this regard? I mean sure, they’re expensive to craft (or not at all for the trinkets), but we can always farm tokens, commendations, laurals and badges to obtain the ones not locked behind achievements!
They really do need to revisit this whole acquisition design if they really expect us to utilize this system beyond zerks meta.
+1 this.
The present system isn’t particularly scalable i.e. it’s really going to take a long time if Anet needs to introduce each possible set of stats combinations.
Maybe… Legendary Armour! Yes I’m still beating that drum.
But anyway with the new changed to ascended armor re-spec-ing it does seem like ANet is open to the possibility to allowing us more control over our gear stats, at least for high level gear. Legendary armor that allows us to select our primary and secondary stats as we see fit is a possibility and it would allow ANet to leave the present system mostly as is. Granted locking such a useful feature behind something like legendary armour is probably not a good idea.
I’m up for helping but don’t want the rank cause I’m not as active as I was. Still happy to be a part of Omfg as well as Teef. Wander if Wind would like to form an alliance as well.
Actually I’m fine with how you have to grind the ascended gears as this truly give hardcore players time to achieve and earn something. Wanna test builds? Heart of Mist’s the place. I just hate how you’re limited these combination of stats for such a long period of time, I mean it’s been like what 3 years?! At least produce more combination of stats. Plus since they’ve removed trait stats then they should at least give us a better alternative to get a hold on our stats.
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