Guild Wars 2

Calys Teneb.7015:

Guild Wars 2 is the only MMO I’ve ever played that didn’t have a tutorial. No, there’s a story intro stage that teaches players absolutely nothing but how to use 1, and that red circles are bad. From there, players are put into the wide open world, where we can do amazing things like learn about norn totems or help out on various farms with menial tasks. Players are left on their own, and if they aren’t theorycrafters like the top 5% of us, they aren’t going to know squat about how to play the game.

I stopped here because, no offense, it doesn’t sound like you’ve played many MMOs at all. Most of them are more or less the basics and then crowd sourcing knowledge. That’s intentional to push the social aspect. It’s been done since WoW and god help you if you didn’t know something in Everquest.

In EverQuest My FIRST MMO I learned the HARD way to NOT click the A key without the chat bar up if targetting an NPC.

EverQuest seemed to take a perverse pleasure in denying you basic knowledge, and expecting you to Look elsewhere… websites… other players, your Guild. And …

It worked. Back then we WERE more social. we also took a LOT Longer to hit level cap… remember Hell levels? XP Loss on death, Corpse runs…etc…

As I seee it One of the problems Not Just with Gw2, but with MMO’s in general… especially those without a devoted following is… the desire to cater to the casual player.

It leads to a dumbing down of content, and a simplifying of game mechanics.

I fear that as things are… The MMO’s of the future will have One class called “Hero” and 3 skills. " Punch" " Kick" and " Dodge".

Galen Grey.4709:

1. It is always tricky to say what is OP and what is not but one thing I think happens is there is this prevailant believe that GW2 is all about DPS and nothing else. If you try to out DPS a warrior with a necro you’re most certainly going to fail and the warrior will feel OP. Thing is all classes can do a lot but they all have their own strength and weaknesses. If i am facing a warrior with my necro I will try to disrupt him as much as possible while putting in conditions on him for example.

2. no expansion doesnt mean no new classes or no new weapons. They can do that as well and they said it already that expansion or not there will be new weapons and new classes with an emphasis that new weapons would probably come first.

3. gold trading outside of what anet provides is already against the terms and if caught you’ll get banned.

4. mirrors what i said about 1. its not just about DPS, though people seem to ignore there is also the control and support aspect of a class as well. An elementalist and a mesmer can boost the whole party damage by 80% while also disrupting the enemy and removing conditions from allies as well as DPS a bit. that means you get more overall damage then having 5 straight up warriors while also mitigating a good amount of damage recieved by the party. It has its advantages.

5. I wouldnt say crafting is useless. Its a good way to gear up cheaply. A good way to trying to acquire a precursor or one of the rare named weapons. Its a good way to get consumables.

About the new classes and skills. There is an adage in Movie making that if nothing has happened In the first reel of a Movie… chances are nothing is gonna happen in the rest. if it was gonna happen, chances are either it would have happened by then, or the groundwork will have been laid for it by then.

people keep acting as if Gw2 were a new release. We cannot expect more from the devs, than what they have offered… game is going through growing pains…etc….

I think 2 years post-release is time to stop cutting the devs slack, and start asking.." why do you seem to lack a consistent direction?"

People are growing restless, new games are being released, some people are leaving for those new games, others are going back to old games… and… some of them don’t come back. The Longer the game seems to be stagnant….. as this game seems… the less likely people will hang around patiently for the game to outgrow it’s prolonged extended pay-to-Beta test phase.

Sages.3496:

Nerelith.7360:

Sages.3496:

if i am to be honest here, None of this even matter’s anymore. Anet doing these updates is a good thing. Nerfing the train allowed for newer player’s to enjoy themselves out in queens dale without being kittened at constantly by people in the train if they killed a champ. so im happy to see Anet finally stepping up to do something like this HUGE PROPS TO THEM FOR IT! also there are alot of way’s to make gold still, using the trading post to your advantage is a good way, and doing dungeons is also another one. The changes to the dungeon’s like the spider in AC spreading out all her aoe’s even if stacked makes it so you have to fight her the way anet originally intended, once again. Anet did a great job in finally fixing the exploit’s of others. so all this kittening and complaining, im personally laughing at considering this update changed alot for the better, all you people do is find something to complain about every patch instead of playing the game.

Maybe you should read the entire thread next time?

MY issue is Not that earning Gold is hard. MY issue is, I cannot camp for the materials I wish to acquire to level up My trade skills, Unless I want to farm for gold, and spend the gold at the TP, to BUY the components I need… for My tradeskills.

I understand that for many of the players here, that are content with the state of the game…the situation is exactly the same.

As I explained In a post above. In terms of immersion, I feel More connected to a world in which I can find a camp of mobs that drop what i want..I stake them out, I avoid wandering patrols…I solo the camp..to farm for the parts I need. THIS feels Like " Playing the game my way." as Anet’s manifesto assured I would be able to do.

Me..going into a dungeon, to then grind out gold… to then use On the tp, to buy the components I need… may be an efficient way for people that like dungeons, or even for people willing to accept Anet’s complete abandonment of their manifesto just to " get along" .." hey, Anet said it was hard, let’s feel bad for the devs"

As far as I am concerned…I can “play the game my way” here. or … I can play another game my way… while monitoring the forums.

So I Monitor the forums.

If you dislike reading my posts, you can ignore them, won’t hurt my feelings any.

PS: My complaint was never that the QD train as gone. I am happy it’s gone a Lot of toxicity was associated with that train that new players did not need to be exposed to.

My complaint is Mostly about Diminishing Returns.

Another complaint to add to the ever growing pile of them that i realy dont care about, if you want material’s so bad dont rely on the train’s anymore or events. actualy go farm them like the rest of us as you are nothing special. the reality is, GW2 is what the players make it by buying it and not paying for gem’s all that much. but i will continue to enjoy every aspect of the game until there is nothing left to do.

Just gonna put this here since you missed it the first time.

Nerelith.7360:

PS: My complaint was never that the QD train as gone. I am happy it’s gone a Lot of toxicity was associated with that train that new players did not need to be exposed to.

My complaint is Mostly about Diminishing Returns.

See there is no way you could have missed that since it’s in the Post you quoted, and you read every sentence before you replied right? I mean, to Put your responce to MY post…. telling me not to rely On the QD train, when I said I did Not Like the QD train would only make it look as if you did nothing more than skim my post. That isn’t what you did right?

PS: If you do not care about the complaint, why reply to it? Let someone else reply to it, that cares to have a meaningful discussion about the issues brought up.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

Let’s make everyone equally poor, then that Lambhorghini Diablo will sell for $4000!!!!

Nick.6972:

Arena Net doesn’t want to make profitable end game content, they want everyone to be poor to sell more gems with real money.

If everyone except for a very few starve, when they come out with the crackers…. On sale… $100 a pound… everyone flocks and brags about How great they taste, In comparison to air, and spit.

Algreg.3629:

Arwen, we had quite some disagreements around here, but in one thing we are quite similar: This game is neither for you nor me. Look for another game, you will not believe how good it feels setting yourself free of GW2 (well, as far as game investment goes – my overall happyness does not depend on it :P).

+1

Galen Grey.4709:

A R W E N.6895:

Teon.5168:

sirflamesword.3896:

Teon.5168:

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

There are a few of us who would LOVE to go back to GW1, but guess what? GW1 hasn’t had ANYTHING new in years because of THIS GAME. I’ve done literally everything in GW1 multiple times, just how I’m guessing many of the people who want some GW1 aspects in GW2 have also done everything a bunch.

That doesn’t mean I don’t completely love GW2, because I do. The base gameplay is perfect IMO, but what it lacks is new stuff. 2 years of doing the same stuff over and over again? Yep gets boring. I have some hope(see nearly zero) that the LS2 will give us new content to play, including more end game stuff like dungeons, Competitive missions, 8-12 man Elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz, and something that would literally make me throw money at my computer screen, UW and FoW.

I must be playing a different game than you have been playing. In the last 2 years, there has been plenty of new stuff in GW2 to satisfy me.

But then again, I only play an average of 10-15 hours a week(if that). Maybe you play a lot more than I do. I will admit that if I played 30-40 hours a week or more, I would get bored with the game, too…….but if I played that much, that would be the case with any game, not just GW2.

I have a similar schedule than you, but I have the feeling like Ive went through everything that is supposed to be challenging.

And with less than 1000hours played since the beginning, I am extremely bored with the current content of the game.

The game most definitely lacks challenging content no going to argue against that. What I do is I create my own challenge. Try to solo group events or even just under gear yourself on purpose. Now I understand there is a huge problem here if you value extrinsic rewards more then intrinsic ones so I am not claim this to be the perfect solution just a possibility.

It works really well in those LS events most people considered zergy. It was a ton of fun handling clockwork invasion events with 2 – 3 people or roaming around Escape from LA solo or with just 1 other player.

Again not the prefect solution,there is definitely work to be done here and Anet understand that too and promised to give us more challenging content in S2 which is great.

There is a difference between being a competitor In the 100 meter hurdles, against Olympic Athletes… and deciding since the only thing available to use is racing against turtles, … tying your own left leg behind your back.

While I realize BOTH extremes are nit satisfactory, I expect something close to the ffirst …provided by anet…. than having to do the second…. so that anet is let off the hook, and I can …entertain myself.

Why do we let Anet off the hook for providing a sub-par product?

Boneheart.3561:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think the correct question here is:

Where is the Underworld?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Underworld

Where is our epic boss battle with Dhuum, and our collectable end game armor?

Dhuum was sealed away two-hundred, fifty years ago. It took him more than one-thousand years to break his seal, and I don’t think there’s many creatures to die in the Underworld for him to collect power anymore.

I may be wrong, but I think what is meant is…

" Where is OUR Version of an Underworld Type dungeon?"

“Where is OUR version of a Dhuum type epic battle against a Dhuum type Epic Boss?”

“Where is OUR Version of the epic Loot that Dhuum dropped In Guild Wars?”

Ashkael.2859:

seriously dude, dont even bother posting this kind of thread.
there are far too many hurdles that one should overcome for their complaint to be acknowledged.
• first, the low low chance of a dev/staff from anet to ever read your post.
• second, if your post is worded right and if the argument is something valid.
• third, the amount of people with the ‘im okay with the state of things so everyone else should be okay with it too. your post is irrelevant’ kind of mindset who will flood your thread with arrogant and condescending posts.

basically, the second is greatly determined on how many posts of the people from the third are read by the first. those people who claim to be of a neutral stance but weirdly, they wildly abhor any and all ‘complaint’ posts especially if theyre first, against anet and second, if theyre not experiencing it themselves. its that ‘since there’s no war in my country, then the wars in other countries must also be false’ way of thinking

More Like…" since there is no war in My country, and No one I Know died because of other wars…other wars have no relevance to me"

it is sad. but all too human. A war is Not a tragedy if millions die, until ONE person we Know dies.

A Game issue is Not an issue no matter How many are affected…until WE are affected.

John Donne said it best though if we need a counter-argument to that mentality.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend’s
Or of thine own were:
Any man’s death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about armor until I am level 80 and until 80 I get enough drops to keep upgrading my amour along the way. Now how you describe it it’s more like a tool. Thats fine but it’s not fun and thats what I am looking at in a game, fun. Let me craft fun items. Let me be a musician (woops they put that option in the cash-shop) or let me be a toy-maker. A nice new toy every 5 levels to work towards. Meanwhile let me hunt down recipe’s in the world or let me hunt down a special Item I need to create one of those recipe’s. Now then I have fun crafting.

One of the funnest moments I had On another game was levelling up engineering,…. and having made Target Dummies ( they are a Box you drop that when mobs come at you, and near it, Out pops something that draws agro… Kind of Like a Portable mechanical agro magnet.)…

I drop it, and the Mob rushes at me, and I see this … thing made of wood on a spring… flat, but it is the cut out of a female..the painting on it, shows she has a huge cleavage.. and hans her hand In the air, and a smile on her face… the Motion seems to attract the mob over, …although How a Big breasted female sporting cleavage, and waving is attractive to a boar I have no clue…

But it was funny as hell. Every other character I play on that game takes engineering, and makes stacks of target dummies. STILL fun.

Fuji.6284:

The thing about GW2 is that the only two endgame content there is are WvW and PvP, besides all of the cosmetic stuff in PvE. That’s why I find it hard to stay logged in GW2 very long after finishing my daily. The endgame content/reward just isn’t enough. After playing GW2 for a while, I realized that there really isn’t anything amazing in this game. Everything is just “okay” or it’s “expected”. I appreciate Arenet for making things convenient, in comparison to other MMORPGs, but this game just doesn’t get exciting very much. The only exciting thing currently for me is trying out new classes but that grind to lvl 80 is no joke, especially since you’re already played the same content that got you there with your other character(s) repetitively.

What I find Ironic is, that a game that saught to eliminate all that " Boring …grindy" stuff from other MMO’s…ended up boring and grindy.

Sages.3496:

if i am to be honest here, None of this even matter’s anymore. Anet doing these updates is a good thing. Nerfing the train allowed for newer player’s to enjoy themselves out in queens dale without being kittened at constantly by people in the train if they killed a champ. so im happy to see Anet finally stepping up to do something like this HUGE PROPS TO THEM FOR IT! also there are alot of way’s to make gold still, using the trading post to your advantage is a good way, and doing dungeons is also another one. The changes to the dungeon’s like the spider in AC spreading out all her aoe’s even if stacked makes it so you have to fight her the way anet originally intended, once again. Anet did a great job in finally fixing the exploit’s of others. so all this kittening and complaining, im personally laughing at considering this update changed alot for the better, all you people do is find something to complain about every patch instead of playing the game.

Maybe you should read the entire thread next time?

MY issue is Not that earning Gold is hard. MY issue is, I cannot camp for the materials I wish to acquire to level up My trade skills, Unless I want to farm for gold, and spend the gold at the TP, to BUY the components I need… for My tradeskills.

I understand that for many of the players here, that are content with the state of the game…the situation is exactly the same.

As I explained In a post above. In terms of immersion, I feel More connected to a world in which I can find a camp of mobs that drop what i want..I stake them out, I avoid wandering patrols…I solo the camp..to farm for the parts I need. THIS feels Like " Playing the game my way." as Anet’s manifesto assured I would be able to do.

Me..going into a dungeon, to then grind out gold… to then use On the tp, to buy the components I need… may be an efficient way for people that like dungeons, or even for people willing to accept Anet’s complete abandonment of their manifesto just to " get along" .." hey, Anet said it was hard, let’s feel bad for the devs"

As far as I am concerned…I can “play the game my way” here. or … I can play another game my way… while monitoring the forums.

So I Monitor the forums.

If you dislike reading my posts, you can ignore them, won’t hurt my feelings any.

PS: My complaint was never that the QD train as gone. I am happy it’s gone a Lot of toxicity was associated with that train that new players did not need to be exposed to.

My complaint is Mostly about Diminishing Returns.

In many ways, when you "Do dungeons for a chance at " Dusk" dropping… " for me that has the feel of working for something you enjoy. Yes, Gold also drops, and yes, you can use that gold for other things, but the thing drawing you Into that dungeon is the chance of " Dusk" dropping.

The way it is in gw2. I am doing a dungeon for the gold, Like working at a job I did not exactly dream about. A job that is a good job with a good salary, and good benefits, I do it for the cash. But deep down it’s NOT because i LOVE the Job… it doesn’t give me a chance at " Dusk" it just gives me the gold to eventually buy it.

For me…. The second model is too much Like a job. I don’t Log into an MMO to work, that’s what work is for.

For me…. The First model… is a game. The second, is just another job.

Devata.6589:

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Destai.9603:

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter
2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

Do it, you won’t regret it. I approached it with reservations after the severe disappointment suffered with this game over the last year. Wildstar’s what an MMO should be and is worth the $15 a month.

You do understand that you are basically supporting the same company.

And so the game will likely have or get similar money grabbing tactics. In fact the 15 dollar a month might be exactly that. And if your willing to pay the 15 dollar you might just as well start playing WoW as that game proven itself by being successful for 10 years now.

• raises her hand sheepishly, as she rides around on her two person rocket.*

All kidding aside. I am not going to leave gw2 just yet. I am not on playing it, since it’s rewards are all in parts of the game I am not too thrilled about. The manifesto said play how I want, if i go chasing the gold Like a skinner box lab rat…I am not Playing the way I want.

As long as playing the game the way i want is nowhere near as profiteable as farming dungeon runs… I prefer to monitor the Forums for changes… and play… something else.

But the last thing I will do, is give more money to NCSoft.

So whether Wildstar looks good or not, I am giving that a pass.

I think people need to cool it on the “omg if it isn’t satisfying me 100% then I’m not able to play how I want, Anet you lied!” thing. If you want to just do PvP, go for it. You want to mindlessly grind mobs in PvE, go for it, you want to just do crafting and JPs, sure no one’s stopping you, you want to RP, run some dungeons, do some WvW, stand in a circle dancing, whatever, by all means go and do it you can play any way you want! Oh, you want to do any of those things but also make good money doing it? Well, that’s a completely different issue. Not a “play how I want” issue.

I would like to work directly towards items I might like. Not by grinding gold. Thats all.

Well, some could argue that by grinding gold you are indeed working directly towards items you like…

Hypothetically if, let’s say you wanted Dusk, they said, “ok to get Dusk you can run X dungeon and then at the end you will get 1-2 ‘Dusk tokens’. Collect 1000 Dusk tokens and you can trade them in for Dusk!”

Believe it or not if Anet did this then I bet a lot of people would be happy. “Oh man we can finally work toward something we want!” I can hear them exclaiming.

But quite honestly, in this scenario, you could swap the term Dusk tokens for gold coin and you would have the system we currently have.

And still it’s very different. In fact I also talk a lot about currency driven in stead of gold driven (to also take stuff like tokens into account).

When you use a currency (like gold) you slowly get up there. You slowly see that number rising and well thats is boring as hell to me. Now if it drops (rng) on average it might require the same amount of kills (or whatever) however every time you do it you have the rush of ‘will it drop’. That is what makes it so much fun to work towards something directly. Another advantage is that you are not being driven towards whatever gets you the most gold because when done correctly, going directlly for an item is always the fastest while still having gold as an options. Tokens (and gold) is a nice side thing to get so while doing it you know you also get something to the side for sure. But the main goal you go for should not be based on a currency because that takes away much of the joy. It becomes to much like a job.

Could not have said it better.

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Destai.9603:

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter
2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

Do it, you won’t regret it. I approached it with reservations after the severe disappointment suffered with this game over the last year. Wildstar’s what an MMO should be and is worth the $15 a month.

You do understand that you are basically supporting the same company.

And so the game will likely have or get similar money grabbing tactics. In fact the 15 dollar a month might be exactly that. And if your willing to pay the 15 dollar you might just as well start playing WoW as that game proven itself by being successful for 10 years now.

• raises her hand sheepishly, as she rides around on her two person rocket.*

All kidding aside. I am not going to leave gw2 just yet. I am not on playing it, since it’s rewards are all in parts of the game I am not too thrilled about. The manifesto said play how I want, if i go chasing the gold Like a skinner box lab rat…I am not Playing the way I want.

As long as playing the game the way i want is nowhere near as profiteable as farming dungeon runs… I prefer to monitor the Forums for changes… and play… something else.

But the last thing I will do, is give more money to NCSoft.

So whether Wildstar looks good or not, I am giving that a pass.

I think people need to cool it on the “omg if it isn’t satisfying me 100% then I’m not able to play how I want, Anet you lied!” thing. If you want to just do PvP, go for it. You want to mindlessly grind mobs in PvE, go for it, you want to just do crafting and JPs, sure no one’s stopping you, you want to RP, run some dungeons, do some WvW, stand in a circle dancing, whatever, by all means go and do it you can play any way you want! Oh, you want to do any of those things but also make good money doing it? Well, that’s a completely different issue. Not a “play how I want” issue.

I would like to work directly towards items I might like. Not by grinding gold. Thats all.

Well, some could argue that by grinding gold you are indeed working directly towards items you like…

Hypothetically if, let’s say you wanted Dusk, they said, “ok to get Dusk you can run X dungeon and then at the end you will get 1-2 ‘Dusk tokens’. Collect 1000 Dusk tokens and you can trade them in for Dusk!”

Believe it or not if Anet did this then I bet a lot of people would be happy. “Oh man we can finally work toward something we want!” I can hear them exclaiming.

But quite honestly, in this scenario, you could swap the term Dusk tokens for gold coin and you would have the system we currently have.

Not quite. See if I were on another game…I would be doing certain dungeons, or fighting certain Boss mobs on the chance that said Item might drop. THAT leads to Immersion.

By having to " grind gold" this turns a game, into a Job. "I put in 8 hours farming gold…then I do it again, and save up..and I can then buy "Dusk""

That is NOT in any way the same as " I Know that so and so, carried that weapon in bla bla bla…. I Just need to be lucky enough to get it."

Maybe those that wish to keep saying " The game is fine" want to equate the two, but speaking for myself…. They aren’t.

What I find Intriguing is, even if we assume they are completely identical… why did Anet go with the " go farm for gold" model…Instead of the " do dungeon A until the weapon drops" model?

Maybe because the first … casual players can BUY “Dusk” for Gold they buy with gems? The second Dusk becomes an item that can only be obtained from simply playing the game?

Then again, if it can be Only obtained from playing the game… less people buy gems for cash, that they then trade for Gold I guess. So… there is that going for it.

Darksage.1854:

Please! Correct me if I am wrong,

If you played since beta you would know that when the game launched there was no such thing is “DR”, therefore you could go to Cursed Shore and farm for your T6 materials all day, every day. This made the T6 materials much much less valuable. At that point in time, Gold was a very hard thing to acquire. People complained on the Forums about BOTS sitting in Cursed shore farming all day, and not being able to pay for the bills ex. Armor repair, Map Travel,( or actually wanting to buy materials as a quicker process ).

After all the complaints, ANet decides to take the only approach they could to eliminate the bots by adding “DR” so there would be no reason for them to sit in cursed shore all day and farm for T6 Materials. Of course, taking that approach leads to some people as yourselves to come on the forums and complain about the fact you cant sit in X spot all day to collect Y and Z materials to get ( whatever item you need or want ). This change also affects the price of materials to sky rocket leading to inflation. Which leads to ANet having to change the way you acquire gold.

You say Anet was " forced" to institute DR. Thre is No " forced" about it… OTHER games manage to let players farm all they wish, while keeping Inflation down. Without Instituting DR.

If this game were put out by amatures I would agree. " hey poor devs, cut them some slack."

But they aren’t. if we can expect professional solutions from other games, why do we have to go with " whatever is easiest for Anet, even if it messes up the game for many."?

Darksage.1854:

As a fellow player, I do understand it would be nice to know you can farm for the materials you want without spending a dime on the TP, but it’s yall who are changing the game. ANet can’t please everybody. You can either enjoy the ride, or hop off and move on to the next best thing.

See, this is the very attitude that is chasing players off gw2. THIS is the reason I for one, have gone from ..Playing EVERY day,…to Playing something else, and Monitoring these forums.

The problem I have is… that many here seem so lackadaisical, and give Anet a free pass even though they promised ONE thing when the game launched, then after people BOUGHT the game, Invested time, invested energy…into it, changed course in mid-stream.

The changes Instituted seem to co-incidentally also encourage players to rely on the TP for almost all their needs. The TP from which Anet exerts a heavy cut, and it also seems to encourage others to buy gems for conversion to Gold.

I Played Guild Wars for years. And for years I saw that " No Monthly, but enjoyable" was viable. Guild wars was the ONLY b2p game I played at the time, since then I also started Playing RIFT. But the way it is currently being run it seems that… this is just like almost any other f2p game… centered on the cash shop.

Why does Anet get a free pass? They garnered a Lot of goodwill from me while I Played Guild Wars. This current…" version"… not so much.

So Hop off? I guess that’s your way of saying " go * off?" I spent money On the Collector’s Edition of this game, because I had faith in Anet. I guess the faith is gone, but I still have hope.

And until it shuts it’s servers, or I get banned, You will continue seeing me post, you know, you can always just ignore me.

Maybe someone can explain to me what is so dreaded about a Player being able to solo farm 120 to 140 ancient bones for their tailoring needs? Is the economy so fragile, that it fears the effects of people going into the world to provide their own components for their own skills? ( Play as you wish)? That it NEEDS to almost force them to go on the TP to purchase their needs?

Seems Like an artificial way to pump up GDP…

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Destai.9603:

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter
2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

Do it, you won’t regret it. I approached it with reservations after the severe disappointment suffered with this game over the last year. Wildstar’s what an MMO should be and is worth the $15 a month.

You do understand that you are basically supporting the same company.

And so the game will likely have or get similar money grabbing tactics. In fact the 15 dollar a month might be exactly that. And if your willing to pay the 15 dollar you might just as well start playing WoW as that game proven itself by being successful for 10 years now.

• raises her hand sheepishly, as she rides around on her two person rocket.*

All kidding aside. I am not going to leave gw2 just yet. I am not on playing it, since it’s rewards are all in parts of the game I am not too thrilled about. The manifesto said play how I want, if i go chasing the gold Like a skinner box lab rat…I am not Playing the way I want.

As long as playing the game the way i want is nowhere near as profiteable as farming dungeon runs… I prefer to monitor the Forums for changes… and play… something else.

But the last thing I will do, is give more money to NCSoft.

So whether Wildstar looks good or not, I am giving that a pass.

I think people need to cool it on the “omg if it isn’t satisfying me 100% then I’m not able to play how I want, Anet you lied!” thing. If you want to just do PvP, go for it. You want to mindlessly grind mobs in PvE, go for it, you want to just do crafting and JPs, sure no one’s stopping you, you want to RP, run some dungeons, do some WvW, stand in a circle dancing, whatever, by all means go and do it you can play any way you want! Oh, you want to do any of those things but also make good money doing it? Well, that’s a completely different issue. Not a “play how I want” issue.

I think you are completely misunderstanding me. I Like to farm for the drops I need to level up my profession skills…Just as ONE example.

I Like knowing " Mobs A, B and C…In area X… drop ancient bone, I need ancient bone to make Item Y." And go there, and spend a few Hours Just… avoiding patrols, as I solo farm for ancient bones to level up My skills yes… but also, for the sheer enjoyment of managing the camp alone.

It is tied together. It is Not Just " the pure enjoyment of soloing the camp"…. it’s also the REWARD, of getting the ancient Bones to drop….

It’s NOT JUST Not being able to gold farm… yes that is also an issue for me, at least not being able to do so consistently, and repeatedly.

Diminishing Returns is chasing me off this game.

Last night, me and the wife needed bigger bags. So I hop on my level 85 Warlock… and take the zeppelin to a certain spot..and then the bat to another spot, I Know I can get Cloths for 20 slot bags. While I am there, I can also disenchant whatever else drops… to combine with the cloth, and the threads I bought at the merchant and keep in large supply.

For ME…. it is enjoyable to farm the components I need. For ME…. it’s Not about grinding out gold..to then shop on the TP.

THIS is what I… mean by " Play How I want." THIS is what I am NOT able to do.

So I am playing another game, I was at that spot for about an Hour, I got 120 cloth, I got some green enchanted items to disenchant, and I got 20 to 25 gold. Good for me…

I only ended up needing 10 of some other item, which I bought off the AH for a negligible amount.

In Gw2. If I want ancient bone…DR makes me have to stop after I get 10 or so…. I need 100 or so. So where do I need to go? The TP.

But then I run Into problem two, I need the Gold to Buy it. So where can I go to get that? A dungeon…farm it…run 8 a day. What if I don’t Like dungeons?

Maybe take out the credit card? Like that is so much fun and rewarding?

TheDaiBish.9735:

@Nerelith

I got to ask; did you do any research on the game at all before buying it? Because it sounds like you didn’t and sort of assumed they were just remaking GW with better graphics, jumping and a more open world.

Not saying what Anet did was right or wrong (I still enjoy both GW and GW2) but I can understand why they did certain things. I even like the idea behind certain things, such as weapon skills being locked. It makes weapons more than a stat stick.

All in all for the most part, I’m glad they decided to make GW2 different from GW. It provides me with two different gameplay experiences. But that’s just me.

I did do research on the game, but nowhere do i remember anyone saying there would be No sub-classes.

Secondly, while I also remember that they said that skills would be weapon locked, as a Player of Guild Wars, with it’s Literally HUNDREDS of skills…I also did not remember them saying.." oh… you only get 4 or 6 weapons… so skills will be scarce."

I also remember an AI that used skills similar to what you yourself had On your skill bar being used by mobs against you, No where do I remember the devs saying " well, combat will basically be a HUGE HP Pool, bosses being able to ONE hit Kill you… "

Lastly I remember that part of the core experience of Guild wars was Elite Signet captures… My favorite part of the game.

I Understand the devs did NOT say these would be IN the game. but…

Coppola did NOT have to say The Godfather II was about the Corleone family, and their Involvement in Organized Crime….

That was sort of understood.

Eight Samurai.6840:

No I’m sorry accusing him of buying from gold sellers and having bad password were all wrong (he used upper, lower case, and symbols for his password and dungeons spammers don’t need gold sellers). All I’m saying is it’s possible for anyone to get hacked, and if it is there is nothing you have to protect yourself as a last resort. Even if they make a pin reset they can have a couple days for the new one to work which by then you can change all your passwords.

Luckily he’s being a good sport about losing his things for the most part because he doesn’t want too many things atm…

Been Playing MMO’s since EverQuest. Played More MMO’s than I can count. I have never had an account hacked. I have also never bought gold. I also use completely random numbers , letters bit caps and small.. and …I’ve never been hacked.

See how that works?

Ravion Hawk.4736:

First things first, your “friend” may have bought gold from a gold seller thus leading to the compromising of the account. Stop buying gold from gold sellers.

Second, use a secure password with at least 12 characters.

Third, make sure your email password and your account password are different.

Fourth, use either the mobile device security code or the email IP notification.

Lastly, in order to implement a pin system, they have to allow for resetting of the pin in case it is forgotten. A patient hacker can just change the account password and reset the pin then wait the time for the pin to reset (IIRC usually 24-48 hours).

In other words… this is a first world problem, stop looking to anet for a solution.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

come on you know as well as I as it is not that simple. If all farmers do is undercut each other every time they sell something everything would sell for 1c above vendor price.

This is Not How supply and demand works.

Farmers will undercut each other naturally, with no incentive to do so from the developers. The price will drop, until the farmers start feeling that the prices are going Lower than they should.

When the farmers feel that undercutting takes the prices below they are willing to trade them , because they feel the price does not reward the efforts they put in to obtain the item…they stop Posting, they put the crap in the bank, because they understand the price cycle. They know prices will go back up.

Lo and behold…as the farmers stop putting their stuff on the AH at lower and Lower prices, you have demand remaining the same, and supply dwindling…. prices climb.

Then..Only when the farmers feel the prices Justify their efforts In attaining their commodities, they will again, begin to sell… More sellers…exerts pressure down, and the price again..drops.

So no, your analysis is a strawman argument. farmers DO undercut one another, but it never will drop to 1 copper above vendor… well maybe for some idiots that just want to sell the item, Not thinking they are undercutting themselves to oblivion.

I went to another game, because at least in that other game, I can pretty Much automate price watching, and Undercutting. I can also set a limit, as the price drops Lower…there is a Line I won’t cross. a Price I will not Undercut. When a competitor takes the price there, I simply leave My items at that price just above. if they expire unsold..I won’t Put them back on rhe AH til prices climb again.

By NOT Putting them On the AH, I help create scarcity.

Askherion.4935:

Shockwave.1230:

Balance Philosophy

• Selfish boons, unlike Guardian and Elementalist.
• strong direct damage melee cleave, some bleeds / Torment
• soft cc (blind, weakness, chill, cripple) and some hard cc (short duration kd, pull behind?, immobilize wall?), and higher frequency access to swiftness to keep melee range
• noticeably fewer gap closers than the warrior
• get in, keep the enemy in and take them down before you go down.
• minor team support, via targeted condi removal (burn, chill, cripple, immob)
• weaker vs heavy ranged damage

Lore

• to avoid the issue of the Dervish being tightly coupled to the human Gods, Dervishes in Elona would have taught Wind Prayer and Earth prayers and Mysticism to the other races with the help of Asuran Elementalists (Vekk?) identifying the link between the prayers to the wind and earth magics .

Am I the only one that reads “necromancer” in his description? The necro is known to be selfish (Blood is power for might, Spectral Walk and Armor), has access to lot of bleeds (even Power specs have bleed on crits), DS gives torment. Soft and Hard cc, necro has the wells for this, staff marks, dagger 3 for immob, and the scepter for cripple, axe 3, focus 5…. It has a lot fewer gap closers than warrior (DS2, and a grab with Spectral Grasp). The philosophy of “get in, keep the enemy in” follows the same train of though and thus is also typical of necromancers. Swiftness… You have Spectral Walk, Signet of Locusts, Warhorn 5 and the Quickening Thirst and Speed of Shadows traits. For condi removal, Unholy Martyr helps along with a Well of Power and Plague Signet. As for weaker against ranged damage… This is vague to me, but given the low numbers of gap closers, I say it’s true as well.

What lacks is what many necromancers have been asking for for a long time now: a melee cleave weapon. You basically want a necromancer with a scythe. For the “dervish-specific” skills, well, humans have them as racial skills. For the other mechanics they had in GW1 (e.g. enchantments), it can’t be done in GW2.

And for the lore justifications… I am really not convinced. I don’t see Asuras teaching stuff to other races for one, and translating prayers to magic so that other races can use it doesn’t make sense to me.

Dervish are not necromancers with scythes, you really should play The original game, and create a dervish, then create a necromancer, you will see they are different, and No… people wanting to play a dervish are not stepping on Necromancer toes. the scythe is not a weapon that " we asked for it first." The Scythe has always been a dervish weapon.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nerelith.7360:

That doesn’t give the same effect. The Ritualist had skill that enhanced their spirits. The had skills that would heal for more… based on how many spirits they had out. Thay had spells that would sacrifice all their spirits for a big damage spike… the Ritualist could do a hell of a Lot more with their spirits… without having " traits". Fresh out of the box.

Sorry, but while I can see that they may have borrowed from Ritualist to make the engineer, they made the engineer a sub-par ritualist.

You’ve seemed to got that mixed up. In your example, the Spirits enhance your spells, not the other way around – and yes, I am aware that there were skills that enhanced Spirits (Armour of Unfeeling, for example).

Also, one of the attributes of the Ritualist (Spawning Power, I think), passively enhanced the creatures you spawned. Much like how Traits passively enhance Turrets.

At the end of the day, you won’t get an exact same clone as a profession from GW1 because of different gameplay systems.

For example, chances are they would have taken the skill Destruction and turned it into a Trait – something like “When a Spirit dies, it deals damage to nearby foes”, or Explosive Growth would have been converted to a Trait as well; “Deal damage when you summon a Spirit”.

For the sake of it, take the Engineer back to GW1:

• The Trait Accelerant-Packed Turrets would become a skill that would deal damage and cause knockdown to nearby foes, sacrificing all turrets.
• The Trait Metal Plating would become a skill (similar to Armour of Unfeeling, funnily enough).

In your eyes, simply because of the difference in systems, any profession put into GW2 will be a sub-par version of the GW1 counterpart.

Nerelith.7360:

Fact is, while I wait for Gw2 devs to do the right thing…

What’s that, exactly?

What is that exactly? Give me Guild Wars 2. Not a generic MMO with a tyrian skin.

The Only thing this has In common with Guild wars is the name, and some lore. The name of some skills. and that’s it.

When you leave out some CORE concepts from the first game… and use the excuse." that would be hard." you lose the goodwill you built up with me.

When I go to see The Godfather II, I expect to see members of Organized Crime , involved In Criminal endeavors… people trying to either lock them up, or stab them In the back..I don’t expect core ideas on The Godfather to be missing. I don’t expect to see Michael Corleone decide to open up a bar.. and have Clemenza and Tom decide to drop By to chat and make funny jokes. “Cheers” is Not the sequel to The Godfather, and Gw2, is not the sequel to Guild Wars.

Whwn I play Guild Wars 2…I expected sore skills, and Not have them locked In weapons, becauyse it makes " devs Jobs easier."

That reminds me of a quote from A League of their own, with Tom Hanks , and Geena Davis.

She’s leaving baseball, and Tom thinks she has it in her to be great.

The Hard is what makes it great.

Devata.6589:

Destai.9603:

nolij.4327:

making the game harder and nerfing gold farming methods accomplishes two things

1. people who are dedicated players who like to farm for stuff will quite, making server load lighter
2. people who aren’t so dedicated but still want gold will end up spending even more money on buying gold because it’s now impossible to make gold by playing the game

it’s very easy to understand these kind of situations once you face the fact that it’s all about the money

inb4 “omg how dare anet try to make money blah blah blah”

yes, anet deserves money for content. however, taking present content and making it harder is not content, and therefore not deserving of money.

it’s sad to say that i’m thinking about leaving too, for wildstar

Do it, you won’t regret it. I approached it with reservations after the severe disappointment suffered with this game over the last year. Wildstar’s what an MMO should be and is worth the $15 a month.

You do understand that you are basically supporting the same company.

And so the game will likely have or get similar money grabbing tactics. In fact the 15 dollar a month might be exactly that. And if your willing to pay the 15 dollar you might just as well start playing WoW as that game proven itself by being successful for 10 years now.

• raises her hand sheepishly, as she rides around on her two person rocket.*

All kidding aside. I am not going to leave gw2 just yet. I am not on playing it, since it’s rewards are all in parts of the game I am not too thrilled about. The manifesto said play how I want, if i go chasing the gold Like a skinner box lab rat…I am not Playing the way I want.

As long as playing the game the way i want is nowhere near as profiteable as farming dungeon runs… I prefer to monitor the Forums for changes… and play… something else.

But the last thing I will do, is give more money to NCSoft.

So whether Wildstar looks good or not, I am giving that a pass.

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

If you are struggling in AC, you don’t have a good team. Period. In fact, you have a bad team.

AC is one of the easiest dungeons in the game, and you can tell it is because its a dungeon which is near the top of everyone’s daily rotation list.

if it’s so “easy”, why do ppl constantly force ppl to play a certain build or scram?
answer me that question, just try it.

Yep they usually can’t answer that so they’ll try to marginalize that this really happens or they’ll say that it’s a one time deal, the fact of the matter is this. It’s been going on for the better part of a year now. It started for Engineers when they nerfed Grenades. Every nerf since has been nothing but more pushback from the community in these dungeons, one of the problems with the engineer class that I talk about which leads to this issue is our dependence on condition damage to do any kind of damage at all. If you make a power build or a Zerker build you’ll notice how there’s simply not enough damage output outside of the grenade kit in any other kit or weapon choice that this class has that allows for it to be competative with any other class in PVE without the use of condition damage. I personally have kept Incendiary Powder on my builds no matter if I’m healing or not because I’ve found that pure power pure Zerker just doesn’t work on this class mostly due to the lack of damage bonus traits that both rangers and thieves enjoy that are missing from the engineer trait lines.

I’ve pointed this discrepency out for the entire life of this title and both the suggestions threads I’ve made about it and the numerous posts about it have been met with people either mistakenly thinking that PVP numbers are the same as PVE or they had never played another class so they weren’t really seeing the problem.

At some point just as we’re seeing now with players finally seeing the problems we’ve been talking about with lack of rewards (after months of first mentioning it of course) I’m sure people down the road possibly a few months from now will realize what I’m posting today and will start making posts of their own asking why it’s been like this and why it hasn’t been properly addressed.

The reason None of this is properly addressed is because… gem store.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nerelith.7360:

You just made my point. But they also had attacks where they would recoup health, by a certain amount per mob hit. ets. So when you think about it…Nope, Nothing Like a Guardian in feel…or playstyle. Even if they buff… that’s all they do… that is similar… Buff. may as well say the Guardian is Like the World of warcraft Brewmaster… because they also self buff.

I didn’t say Guardian played like a Dervish. I said the only similarity was the whole ‘sacrificing buff’ thing – Dervish did it to enhance themselves, Guardian does it for allies.

And yes, while Dervishes have attacks like that, they’re are more known for the mechanic of Flash Enchantments and stripping them to boost attacks.

Nerelith.7360:

Except that the Ritualist enhances their spirits. The Engineer doesn’t. They may have things in common…but then again, may as well ay that the Engineer is Like the World of warcraft Shaman. But deep down…are they?

The Engineer can enhance their turrets through Traits though.

That doesn’t give the same effect. The Ritualist had skill that enhanced their spirits. The had skills that would heal for more… based on how many spirits they had out. Thay had spells that would saccrifice all their spirits for a big damage spike… the Ritualist could do a hell of a Lot more with their spirits… without having " traits". Fresh out of the box.

Sorry, but while I can see that they may have borrowed from Ritualist to make the engineer, they made the engineer a sub-par ritualist.

Fact is, while I wait for Gw2 devs to do the right thing, I am going back to another game who’se name cannot be mentioned.. The irony is, it came before Gw2…. as can be told by it’s name. But It cannot be named. I’ll give a hint, the name rhymes with Build Stores.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nerelith.7360:

A Dervish buffs Himself for each mob Hit with his scythe. That is Not included In the guardian, and that is what makes a Dervish, a Dervish..a whirling Dervish…. Guardians don’t whirl.

While I think the similarities between Dervishes and Guardians are minimal at best (sacrificing buffs), how you described the Dervish wasn’t how the Dervish worked.

For the most part, Dervishes would buff themselves and then strip the buff to add an additional effect to their attacks.

For example, Rending Sweep would deal damage, but if it stripped an enchantment off of the Dervish, it’d also strip an Enchantment off of the target as well.

You just made my point. But they also had attacks where they would recoup health, by a certain amount per mob hit. ets. So when you think about it…Nope, Nothing Like a Guardian in feel…or playstyle. Even if they buff… that’s all they do… that is similar… Buff. may as well say the Guardian is Like the World of warcraft Brewmaster… because they also self buff.

Nerelith.7360:

Nerelith.7360:

The Ritualist is not anything like an Engineer.

They both share a common theme – Stationary turret summoner.

Except that the Ritualist enhances their spirits. The Engineer doesn’t. They may have things in common…but then again, may as well ay that the Engineer is Like the World of warcraft Shaman. But deep down…are they?

Weapon spells got reworked into Kits
Spirits got reworked in Turrents

They have a few things In common…but no… I do not see anything similar between weapon spells and kits, may as well say that weapon kits are the same as elementalist attunements. In which case One begins to feel that..a Lot of Gw2 seems to just be stuff copy/pasted from other games…or from itself.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Thief evolved from assassin, that is their design, they didnt wanna take the old assassin clearly.

Ritualist/monks/dervishes all of them had their magics wrapped into guardian, Meditations were a dervish thing, well guardians have them now. Healing breeze? Guardian. Spirit weapons, splinter/barrage rangers are no more, we have guardian spirit hammer.

That being said, I want a new proffession that is UNIQUE to guildwars 2. Not a rehash of their old classes. I can play guildwars 1 if I want that.

As for Scythe, it does need to make a come back, for necro though : ^)

While a Lot is included in the Guardian, the thing that isn’t is the dervish playstyle.

A Dervish buffs Himself for each mob Hit with his scythe. That is Not included In the guardian, and that is what makes a Dervish, a Dervish..a whirling Dervish…. Guardians don’t whirl.

Secondly, an Assassin may have had some things given to the thief….but it is NOT a thief. A thief, is a handicapped assassin as I see it.

I do agree with One thing a Lot of people have said. They do not want anything in the game that is hard.

New classes would be hard. Old classes would be hard… balancing what they have now is hard.

I think the main reason is, Most employees are not working on game balance, they are in the gem shop, the PR department, and other aspects of the game that are more likely to bring in revenue.

It’s easier to put out a new armor or weapon skin, than it is to balance classes. And Schlocking it brings in more cash.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

darkace.8925:

Donutdude.9582:

Whilst I did love the massive amount of content in Guild Wars, I’m really enjoying the Living Story approach to Guild Wars 2 so, for now, I am against expansion packs.

You know what I enjoy? New regions to explore, new skills to experiment with, new classes to learn, new races to experience, and all of it with a high degree of polish. You know what the Living Story hasn’t delivered? None of the above.

If it has not delivered none, then it has delivered some. Lol.

I prefer the Living Story method of content delivery, as well. We shall see what Season Two brings. =)

Living Story in my opinion is BS. It’s " new content" on the cheap. I am looking at older titles… and when they deliver something Like an expansion it EXPANDS How we play… wether it’s new classes, new races, new maps…new skills…or New levels… it is an EXPANSION.

Living story is nowhere near an expansion. They make a Big deal out of How it’s free. of course it’s free, no one would pay for it.

But as someone said. Why put in a LOT of energy and effort to put out an expansion that would sell for $60, when they can put Infinite harvesting tools etc, on the gem store that sell for the same? And all it probably takes is a change to a few lines of code, and a different piece of art?

serapheles.5409:

Psichologas.1063:

Game is really fun, but what about expansions? I mean new profession, new race, new weapons, something like that. I’m afraid that there will be nothing like that until 2015 or even at all, could it be true?

All these things you mentioned could be given in the living story.

But won’t.

sorudo.9054:

the one you enjoy is worth leveling to lvl 80, you just won’t level a character to max if you genuine don’t like it.

Could not have said it better myself.

kokiman.2364:

Shockwave.1230:

They can do subclasses at some point too, adding new professions does not have to be mutually exclusive to subclasses. ANet still needs to add new professions to the game at some point as well.

Do you know why we dont have subclasses? Because of the balance. Do you think that the balance of GW2 right now justifies a new layer of complexity? I think the balance team right now has a lot problems balancing the game for all 3 gamemodes.

You would think after 2 years they would have the classes better balanced, why does this game feel like the longest alpha in the world>? Not Just not ready for release, but…Not ready for beta.

Shockwave.1230:

Shockwave.1230:

Being a Guild Wars 1 vet, I’d like them to do a throw back with one of the new professions they bring in at some point. Dervish is the main one on my mind, with ritualist being a close second.

How would both of those profession be unique in GW2? What would be their class mechanics?

Go play Guild Wars. You’ll see that BOTH of those have better mechanics, and are more fun to play than anything currently in GW2. And let’s Not forget The Assassin.

The Assassin is not a Thief.
The Dervish is not a handicapped Elementalist.
The Ritualist is not anything like an Engineer.

These three classes should be in the game. That Anet doesn’t want to givethem to us, is just a sign that they rather keep putting out Living Story. I am pretty certain that even though they claim that the new season has " Permanent Content" there is no new class, or race, or weapon in the thing, maybe new skills? can I Hope?

If Anet does only 1 thing…. I would come back to play Like I used to, and I am sure many of those that have left, if they heard it, they would come flocking back, In droves….

Sub-classes.

What second thing could they do? Bring back Dervishes, and Ritualists and Assassins.

But…. that would be hard. And it seems that the only hard thing Anet considers doing is putting out skins On the gem store.

Kain Francois.4328:

I’d rather they integrate the Dervish into an existing class, with the addition of Scythes as a new weapon.

Except for the fact that that would suck. Dervishes are perfect. Unlike say… 4/5ths of the classes in Gw2.

At this moment, since I am a Little…underwhelmed by the way that Gw2 is going,…I am levelling a Dervish to 20. And an Assassin, and a Ritualist.

Ok all joking aside… what am I levelling to 80? a Brewmaster, A Windwalker, and a Spiritweaver.

LordEnki.9283:

dkspins.4670:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

It could just be me but, since the launch of the megaserver, it appears, to me at least, that more people are playing.

Yes, you are seeing more players on each map, yet the total number of players is smaller than a month and a half ago. Anet gave us the Megazerger 2 months ago without checking it’s viability as well as what effects it would have on the player base. Personally I know of at least 15 people who have stopped playing (thus, buying no gems) in the past 2 months. But yeah, the world looks rosy since maps are fuller, it’s just that we’re condensed.

Exactly, and don’t forget they promised us they would slowly release Megaserver over a few months to make sure everything went smoothly. A week later everything was switched over. It was a solution to the dire need for server mergers. Eliminating server identity in the process.

" We are all Carnished Toast now." <Senator John McCain>

I always said that Gw2 would be an awesome game, if Anet stood by it’s vision, and kept faith in that players would support it for doing so.

The problem seems to be that it heard a Bunch of uncommited people whining and moaning, and decided to court them by caving in to their desires.

BAD BAD BAD.

You never cave to whiners, that just encourages more whiners.

A developer needs to have faith in their vision, philosophy, and manifesto, and realize..a LOT of their customers BOUGHT the game because they agreed with them. THESE players will support Anet, as Long as Anet shows it will stick by it’s beliefs.

When Anet caved…. They lost faith, and some left, some stayed, and have been vocal.

Me I am Playing Guild Wars again… which is interesting since, all they needed to do to have an awesome game was graphically update it. I would have payed to play THAT game.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Kitten is the forum’s filter word. Lol.

As to the rest, you may get completely polarized opinions. There is never a consensus on the forums, except for the fact that there is no consensus. =)

I completely disagree. See what I did there?

tigirius.9014:

Lord of Rings.5371:

Just play GW2 for fun when you have time.

Have fun dude.

Some people’s fun is the prospect of getting rewards for in game activities, when those rewards are missing or extremely cheapened by the economic model, it destroys that type of player’s fun. Where do you think constructs like the “Ding” for leveling came from in the first place?

You are right. This has the feel that it was put together by a bunch of amatures that don’t know the basics of MMO design.

Or maybe the MMO design is centered around maximum Money earned for Anet for minimum expenditure of energy, time, money and / or resources.

tigirius.9014:

Draknar.5748:

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

I’m sure the hundreds if not thousands of players with tons of Ascalon tokens would beg to differ. AC is one of the easiest, if not the easiest dungeon to complete and get tokens from. It’s one of the most farmed dungeons because it is so easy.

Whatever group you ran it with may not have been as good as you think they were. Play with an actual good team and you will be flooded with more tokens than you can shake a fist at.

You mean all be zerker and stack which is a mechanic that they changed in multiple dungeons just recently with their unannounced patch notes? The point is (which you missed) that this game not only was supposed to be NOT about dungeons but it’s following a very old system of too many currencies (one per dungeon) and it’s also following a rather terrible version of the earliest dungeon currency system which other games have evolved into much better systems. It’s sad when the game mentioned above, actually has more diversity than GW2 when it comes to rewards. The 2 currencies used in WoW are what’s used for everything from armor upgrades to new skins, and guess what, you don’t have to run a single dungeon to gather them which is exactly what I expected this game to be when i heard multiple interviews with the devs during beta.

We got something entirely different instead.

I think the term Bait and switch is appropriate. See for me.. if I Love a game call it XYX… and then I hear XYZ 2, is being released by the makrs of XYZ.. I expect some of the core mechanics to remain.

When XYZ 2 is released…. and it feels Like " generic MMO" with an XYZ skin tossed on top … I begin to feel I got took.

tigirius.9014:

Lord of Rings.5371:

Just play GW2 for fun when you have time.

Have fun dude.

Some people’s fun is the prospect of getting rewards for in game activities, when those rewards are missing or extremely cheapened by the economic model, it destroys that type of player’s fun. Where do you think constructs like the “Ding” for leveling came from in the first place?

“Ding” has nothing to do with “cha-ching”. As an early player of EverQuest I remember playing EQ with sound accidentally disabled. I thought " hey I never played an MMO before, maybe it goes with out sound."

Then I updated my sound card driver, and leveled. And I heard this Huge " Ding!"…

Ding is Not about reward, it’s about the sound EQ made when you leveled.

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

If you are struggling in AC, you don’t have a good team. Period. In fact, you have a bad team.

AC is one of the easiest dungeons in the game, and you can tell it is because its a dungeon which is near the top of everyone’s daily rotation list.

if it’s so “easy”, why do ppl constantly force ppl to play a certain build or scram?
answer me that question, just try it.

My opinion is, because a Lot of Players want to do speed clears. Which to me sounds Like a " this is a chore, let’s Just get it over and done with" not." This is fun and engaging content."

If we had More of the latter, we would also have less of the former.

Xia.3485:

I think a lot of players are hibernating now that the living story is over and the WvW season has ended.

Yes, I guess I am Hibernating. I am playing another game, and having fun, Hibernating from this One, until I see where the devs are taking it. NO expansion after 2 years… No New classes, no new skills, No new maps.. just Living Story?

This game is feeling Like it’s being done on the cheap…except for the gem store… and the PR department, and the Forum Moderators.

The " game" feels pretty Much Like an afterthought, to keep people logging in… but it Just feels like it’s all about the gem store.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Nerelith.7360:

I Played Guild Wars. Trust me, this game is not complex or deep.

I played a lot of GW and achieved God Amongst Mere Mortals, about 6 times more in game time in GW (over 4000 hours) than GW2 (about 700 hours).

GW has a lot of horizontal development through secondary professions and heroes after level 20. GW2 after 80 level, has WvW ranks, ascended armors and legendary weapons to add its depth. Even though some are bored with WvW maps, the maps are a lot larger than the ones in JQ, FA and GvG in GW and the being 24/7 WvW is lot complex with competitions in GW.

In fact, it is so complex and time consuming to be successful in WvW that only few servers consistently staying in top tiers and many servers facing unrecoverable declines.

If you say so dude. Needs more dragons.

Lothirieth.3408:

Vesuvius.9874:

What level of Fractals are you doing? Levels 1-9 are a joke, yes. Perhaps try some of the higher levels?

The OP wants rewarding content. The highest level fractals aren’t. You make less there than you would dungeon running in the same time frame.

And to all the people bringing up progression gear grinds, where the the OP say that? The OP points out GW1 which has awesome horizontal progression and challenging, rewarding content. It can be done.

Yes, but it would be hard for the devs to do.

TheDaiBish.9735:

dragonfairy.1064:

it is found on the TP, gemstore = end game content.

Where’s the content you play on the gemstore?

you get to swipe the debit and credit card.

Vesuvius.9874:

What content in GW1 was “high level end game rewarding content” according to you? Do dungeons and fractals in GW2 not count as end game content?

Dungeons are Mid-game content in almost any other MMO you could name.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Nerelith.7360:

There are those of us Not as …. Enraptured I guess. … maybe a few of the trees are shiny, but the forest is dieing.

Some players quit because they have not understood the complexity of the game. Others quit because after learning the depth and scale of the game, they could not justify the amount of time spend in the game and the extra time thinking about it outside game.

The game comes alive when there are many players in involved. An effective way to learn the game is to found others and play along. An effective way to quit the game is to spend time with people who do not play this game.

I Played Guild Wars. Trust me, this game is neither complex nor deep.

Lord of Rings.5371:

I like the graphics, the dynamic combat, the competition, and the social connection of the game. Truly it is the only MMO anyone even need.

The problem is that it is too attractive. This game can easily take over one’s mind resulting thousands hours of in game time and even more time thinking about the game while not playing it.

It is complex and deep. For example, there are traits and additional of 1315 (out of 9945) WvW rank abilities points after level 80, and as result many quit without really learned the game. But after spending enough time in the game, it can be very addictive.

For this reason, the game welcomes players back because it is only a matter of time before one loses one’s mind to this world. This could lead to lost of sleep, lost of time for physical activities, and lost focus in real life.

One way to escape is to be with people who do not play this game.

And plan ahead and do not involve your close ones in this, just in case your life wants you to be more focus on real life situations.

There are those of us Not as …. Enraptured I guess. We find it easy to play other things, and monitor the forums to see if things improve. Not everyone agrees the recent changes improved things In general… maybe a few of the trees are shiny, but the forest is dieing.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Nerelith.7360:

[…]

Tera was a grindfest, after about level 20, it slowed down severely, like all grindfests. Maybe not as much as the grindiest grindfests, but still grindfest nonetheless.

That other game which name you don’t say is also probably another grindfest in which you mostly kill boars all the time.

GW2 has many flaws, but when players go to other games, that’s when they’ll see all the small things that were not flaws but greatly improved the experience.

They try and move when activating skills… and they can’t or get skills canceled…

Don’t miss it. I play a Monk. Monk’s can move and cast. Besides, NOT being able to Move when you need to cast channeled skills adds another element on tactical play to combat. “Do I move? or can i stop to channel a spell, while the mob is either distracted by another player…or do I take a few Lumps?”

The Irony is…this..is a GOOD thing in my opinion, a Good thing Anet tossed out with the bathwater.

Being able to move with all skills…is not a good thing.

Try to travel to places… and there’s no waypoints and they have to walk all the way there…

For me… waypoints make the game world feel smaller. And it ruins my immersion. Having to hoof it everywhere, for me… makes the world feel more real. Less Instanced.

Try to help some newbie… and they get dissed for “stealing kills”…

As opposed to trying to kill a champion, and get dissed for " stealing Champion kills from the champion train" ?

Try to get some cheap gear, and they take ages just to get a single piece…
And on, and on…

I get by with gear that drops off mobs, my entire experience of “That game that shall not be named.”is, I have never had to buy gear til I reach level cap. Til then, I don’t need a single piece of gear that needs to be purchased. I accumulate gold fine.

It’s the “You don’t know what you have until you miss it” effect.

Funny, I was just thinking the exact same thing, I did Not know what i had in “That game that shall not be named”, til I played Gw2 through the last few months of patches and changes…. and Missed it.

That’s when you get “GW ruined other MMOs for me” posts. You don’t get that nearly as often with any other game.

My experience is the opposite… Gw2 has taught me to love “That game that shall not be named” again.

It’s not arrogance when it’s true.

It’s arrogance when it’s not.

And Bulls are dichromat colorblind. They do not chase the muleta for being red, as they don’t see that color. They chase it for how it moves. They are being tortured and stressed, and they will charge to the first thing that flutters in front of them. A bull would usually ignore a thing like that unless they feel danger.
I know it’s just an expression, but I will never see any need in keep an expression as it is if it’s wrong.

It’s a metaphor. Relax. besides I never said a RED cape. Did I? There is a reason, I also Know a Bull is color-blind.

Lastly. It took me this long to reply because I have not checked the gw2 forums all week. Read into that what you wish.

Also, While I can understand and accept that you enjoy Gw2. And while My attitude is " to each his or her own." I do not understand this … thing, where people hear players saying " I went back to “That game that shall not be named”, and checking in from time to time to see if there are changes that I might be interested in checking out."

and Instantly, get responses like this,..telling everyone " Gw2 is awesome… gw2 ruins other games for all players." Just because it ruined other games for them.

I assure you…Gw2 has NOT ruined “That game that shall not be named” for me… Pandas, battle-pets, and Monks, are ruining Gw2 for me.

As things are now..Unless Anet changes direction, I may find myself spending less and less time on gw2.