The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
So, does anyone who says the game is dying/losing players/failing financially, have any reliable source? Some official numbers?
Is it really all speculation?I have no idea how they are doing financially, however, losing numbers and interest is easy.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/guildwars2.comOr compared to other games for example:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=guild%20wars%202%2C%20world%20of%20warcraft%2C%20minecraft%2C%20%2Fm%2F04n3w2r&cmpt=qThat is just for the main website for A.Net – not the game itself.
Doesn’t mean anything. The same can be said for your Google search – sorry try again…..
Megaserver
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
There’s an interesting story on ArsTechnica on how Wildstar is bucking the trend of making MMOs more accessible as a way to save MMOs from the F2P death spiral. That difficult gameplay is the key to get a returning player since when they do win, the win is more satisfying.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/impressions-wildstar-revels-in-its-old-school-mmorpg-rigidity/
I know there’s been several threads advocating making the game tougher, this is the first time I’ve seen an article stating why that may be a good thing.
I have been saying that the game should be more challenging for the longest only to be poo-poohed by some.
The Mob AI needs to be more than just a big wind up with a tell tale, followed by a crushing Blow that can be totally dodged.
I Like the Toxic mobs, They cast conditions. I wish that Conditions were not discriminated against by the devs ( 25 condition cap…when there is no 25 Direct damage cap?…if 25 people all do direct damage at once, the Mob doesn’t ignore the 26th does it?)
I think that all mobs especially bosses should have More attacks that do significant damage, so that the attacks cannot be completely dodged. Then you NEED tactics and Strategy to complete content, Instead of Just " to do a speed clear".
I think that making Bosses Immune to crowd control is a bad idea. For me it’s Just a sign of lazyness on the part of the developer.
In My opinion what would save this game was if they totally scrapped this game system, and went with what was known to Work… Guild Wars.
The developers need to forget about GW2, and launch Guild Wars 2.
And they would have, if a Lot of players weren’t complacent and accepted " But…that would be hard!"
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
or.. you can create a mechanical temporary pet. it will attack until destroyed, or until it runs out of time, maybe you need to also craft batteries.
The problem with crafting in gw2 is, there is Nothing In the crafting professions, that also does Not drop off Mobs. And cool things that COULD are being sold On the gem shop.
thats not true. Its true there arent many and it would be nice to have more but there are a things you can get just by crafting and dont drop off mobs and such like potions, tonics, portal devices, consumables, some unique armor skins, some unique weapon skins, legendary weapons and bags. None of these are sold on the gem shop either.
The problem is, a Potion may be craftable, but in my opinion, lacks… coolness. Then again, that’s just my opinion.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Buying or NOT buying off the gem store is not about sending Anet any message. it’s about How I do not want to support what I do not enjoy.
If anet Understands that is awesome. If they decide to Look Into why the game is losing players, and makes decisions I agree with, I become a happier player, and spend More.
it’s that simple. I do Not reward with money what doesn’t entertain me.
Do you have a link showing that they’re losing players? Especially after they just brought Chinese players onboard.
Megaserver
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Buying or NOT buying off the gem store is not about sending Anet any message. it’s about How I do not want to support what I do not enjoy.
If anet Understands that is awesome. If they decide to Look Into why the game is losing players, and makes decisions I agree with, I become a happier player, and spend More.
it’s that simple. I do Not reward with money what doesn’t entertain me.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I dont know what to say. You probably have a larger vision of integrating crafting into the game. I wonder if other people will feel the same way. I just remembered runescape quests
Well, not sure what runescape has to do with it, I Just know that if all a crafter can provide is what a mob will also drop, there is little incentive for a crafter to craft aside from the xp gained.
I Know that the devs have to focus on important parts of the game. Like the Gem store. But it Just feels to me that after 2 years, The game should feel less generic.
There are profession balance issues. Partly because they are trying to be all things to all, and therfore not doing any one thing well.
if you cannot balance all the professions for PvE, sPvP, WvWvW, Dungeons and Fractals… maybe something has to go, for example?
Crafting is sub-par in this game, because the ONLY things armor makers make is different skins every 10 levels. Yes there are stats, but…so what? The same stats drop off mobs.
Weapon crafters, Not even sure since although I do have weapon crafters, none above 200 skill.
I Just get frustrated when some players will say things Like." well, they ( the devs) looked Into that, and they felt it would be hard."
Maybe I just expect more. Kinda because I payed for the collector’s edition and all… I Kind of feel I paid for a product, and now i just want a better product after 2 years.
Why do I feel this is 2 years of paid Beta?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I already have.
The main issue I find in Crafting in gw2, is it is generic, and bland in my opinion.
As I said in a previous thread.
…… I am not psychic
What does it matter that I can craft armor, when the same armor drops off Mobs for free, and can b crafted by everyone else?
I think Anet made a few big Mistakes, out of a desire to do something " different" that was not also an improvement. Just because they wanted it to be something the Playerbase will enjoy.
Look up " Monry Hall Dungeon Master" on Google.
They should have made it so that trying to learn a 3rd profession you needed to give up one of the other 2, and forget everything you had learned to craft in it.
That means if you have 800,000 players… you do not have 800,000 of every crafter. Paying to switch crafting professions, but where you get to keep EVERYTHING you learned, in my opinion is a bad idea. Just means NOTHING you craft is in demand, since everyoner else also potentially supplies it.
dude, all markets is like this. Its either it is next to impossible to make it or the market will be flooded.
second thing… cool items craft-able.
On another game, you can craft a Motorcycle. Ok, People do Not Like Mounts, so scratch the Motorcycle, but why not a Mechanical mini-pet? Why Not have mini-pets craftable? why are almost all the minis in the gem store?
A third idea… On another game, I can craft a targetting dummy that works as an agro magnet. it sits On a spring, and waves it’s arms, with a painting of a woman with big boobs sporting a smile, a cleavage, and waving her hands.
or.. you can create a mechanical temporary pet. it will attack until destroyed, or until it runs out of time, maybe you need to also craft batteries.
The problem with crafting in gw2 is, there is Nothing In the crafting professions, that also does Not drop off Mobs. And cool things that COULD are being sold On the gem shop.
so you want some type of player specific crafting skin/pet/object that can be freely traded?
well, I guess that is a somewhat reasonable suggestion since this game was suppose be all about skins.
I find that practice dummy a problem because it will prob be cheaper to buy it.
The targetting dummy is just an idea. you asked me for what i felt might make Crafting more than Just a grind for xp. I told you.
People should be able to craft what doens’t drop off a Mob.
For tailoring..Wedding gowns. There are plenty of RP aspects Not being serviced. On another game I make quite a bit selling Wedding gowns, I even roleplay a meeting with the wedding planner. " Oh you need 8 gowns for the Bride’s maids?"
Another idea Huntsman just make the same generic bows that can drop off Mobs. Why Not have them also sell Mechanical traps? An Item that only they make that will Both cripple, and Bleed mobs? Like caltrops….but one use only? or better yet… after it is used you can loot the trap for " bolts" that you can have a Huntsman use to make another trap?
That makes it recyclable… eco-friendly!!!
a Lot fcould have been done that would be fun, and would be a reward for sticking with a given craft.. every 10 or so levels…some item that No one else can make, and doesn’t drop off mobs.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Fact is, I make zero at 20 slot bags, because I do not make 20 slot bags in Gw2. Crafting in Gw2 is boring for me.
Crafting on another game is not. This is what I mean by “opinion”. At no time did I say your opinion was wrong, I simply said I do not enjoy crafting on gw2.
The funny thing is, reading what you seem to believe, you seem to believe if you dislike or find crafting boring, then it’s Not that it is boring for you…( opinion)… it is Boring…( fact).
You need to remember just because you dislike or find something boring doesn’t mean everyone else does.
BTW Nice " appeal to the masses" there, but that is a Logical fallacy, what your friends also enjoy that matches up with your tastes has no relevance to what I find entertaining.
yep, it is a logical fallacy. That why I wanted you to point it out. Change my friends to you and I am just trolling.
now, you are scratching the problem. Crafting is by nature a gold/time sink. Crafting is designed to be too easy in most cases. There isnt my sword is better than your since everybody makes the same sword. Inconvenience and barriers is the most profitable endeavor in games
Seriously….If you really want crafting to be fun. Dont go around and complain the current system isnt working. Make a real proposal on how crafting should work. Yelling and not telling why is nonconstructive and kinda annoying.
I already have.
The main issue I find in Crafting in gw2, is it is generic, and bland in my opinion.
As I said in a previous thread. What does it matter that I can craft armor, when the same armor drops off Mobs for free, and can b crafted by everyone else?
I think Anet made a few big Mistakes, out of a desire to do something " different" that was not also an improvement. Just because they wanted it to be something the Playerbase will enjoy.
Look up " Monty Haul Dungeon Master" on Google.
They should have made it so that trying to learn a 3rd profession you needed to give up one of the other 2, and forget everything you had learned to craft in it.
That means if you have 800,000 players… you do not have 800,000 of every crafter. Paying to switch crafting professions, but where you get to keep EVERYTHING you learned, in my opinion is a bad idea. Just means NOTHING you craft is in demand, since everyoner else also potentially supplies it.
second thing… cool items craft-able.
On another game, you can craft a Motorcycle. Ok, People do Not Like Mounts, so scratch the Motorcycle, but why not a Mechanical mini-pet? Why Not have mini-pets craftable? why are almost all the minis in the gem store?
A third idea… On another game, I can craft a targetting dummy that works as an agro magnet. it sits On a spring, and waves it’s arms, with a painting of a woman with big boobs sporting a smile, a cleavage, and waving her hands.
or.. you can create a mechanical temporary pet. it will attack until destroyed, or until it runs out of time, maybe you need to also craft batteries.
The problem with crafting in gw2 is, there is Nothing In the crafting professions, that also does Not drop off Mobs. And cool things that COULD are being sold On the gem shop.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
btw, if you want other people to do something. Personal opinion become arguments because you want other people to not ignore you.
I think we are talking past one another, you discuss " barriers of entry" and " giant time/gold sinks that are boring"
The thing is, they may be boring to you. Just because you find them boring doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you that they are boring.
I happen to enjoy crafting, as to bars of entry… the only entry fee was 10 copper to get apprentice engineer, and 10 copper for apprentice miner.
Is it a Time sink? Of course it is. But let me redefine that … is it a Time sink for me? hell no. Know why? because I find crafting enjoyable.
if i am enjoying what I do, I do not care How Long it takes me to level it up to where it begins to be profitable. If On the other hand all I want it for is to provide me with 10 or 12 levels worth of xp, or whatever, then yes, it is BOTH a time, and a gold sink.
People have differing opinions. Crafting has been a boring endeavor in games. I find that some of my friend agrees. Its take time out of the day that could had been spent playing actual content. How do you propose a way to increase the crafting difficulty to make it profitable?
Remember, ideas are worthless. Implementation matters. Please propose an implementation. Clearly you know better than Anet.
Yes, I do know better than Anet about what appeals to me. BTW Nice " appeal to the masses" there, but that is a Logical fallacy, what your friends also enjoy that matches up with your tastes has no relevance to what I find entertaining.
I happen to enjoy engineering, so running all over the map, Looking for Gold Nodes..etc.. so that I can make Gold cores… so i can add them to My compact harvester kit, that lasts a few fights, for me, is not a time sink…or a Gold sink…. it is me doing what I enjoy doing.
I can enjoy that on another game, …i do not have that experience here.
Sometimes people craft because crafting is fun. Sometimes people do not consider " Time/gold sink per xp gained" because for them it’s irrelevant.
The problem is that since crafting in games is basically a push of a button. Many game studio make it a time/gold sink. Runescape is an example of a really grindy crafting system. I think around to get from 97 to 99. You need all the experience you earn from 97 and basically double it to get to level 99. Imagine doing that routine hundred to thousand of times.
Leveling crafting in some games because no longer the case of leveling while you play. No, you have to play with the intent of crafting since you need a ton of mats.
btw, you prob will not make much money at all selling 20 bag slot even if anet lower the prices of sigil because the market readjusted itself to basically the price of the mats.
Fact is, I make zero at 20 slot bags, because I do not make 20 slot bags in Gw2. Crafting in Gw2 is boring for me.
Crafting on another game is not. This is what I mean by “opinion”. At no time did I say your opinion was wrong, I simply said I do not enjoy crafting on gw2.
The funny thing is, reading what you seem to believe, you seem to believe if you dislike or find crafting boring, then it’s Not that it is boring for you…( opinion)… it is Boring…( fact).
You need to remember just because you dislike or find something boring doesn’t mean everyone else does.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
That points to the problem, you see metaphor, where I am saying things plainly.
I am speaking what I mean, Not using metaphors, so yes, you deciding I am using metaphor, that you then try to decypher or decode WOULD give you headaches.
Try this, read what I write, Not what you imagine I mean. You’ll get less headaches.
Fine….. if you want me to deconstruct every claim you made, I will. It will take awhile.
Knock yourself out. Seeing as I never made " claims" that you need to " deconstruct" I spoke of My experience crafting in Gw2. And I spoke about my experience crafting on another game, as a point of comparison.
The Point was what i found enjoyable and rewarding. My Personal….Opinion… about Both crafting systems.
Here is the thing about Opinions. You cannot " deconstruct" them since they are personal.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Thirdly… what are you talking about me being FORCED to grind mats In ones half my level?? I am mining nodes where I also happen to be questing. Not going to go to a level 60 zone to Mine at level 40. So Not sure what you are talking about. I am level 40, I mine in a level 40 zone, as to " Bots" I see More Bots In Gw2, than in othjer games. I cannot stand In DR without getting 5 spams In 4 minutes offering me " the bets Goldz!"
Plerase try and refrain from making s*** up.
if you are asking that I should refrain from making kitten up. Then you dont see the issue. In this game, gathering mats is more inconvenient that crafting which is more profitable.
Nope I am Not asking Anet to do anything other than remove the artificial tax on bags that demands i Buy an overpriced sigil. Since I know they won’t. I am waiting patiently for…well…read my new sig.
There are too many ways to get 20 slot bags in this game. Removing the artificial tax wont do a dent to the actual price unless they made the sigil practically free
Are you even reading My posts? when did i talk about Mining copper on My level 40 monk, on another game?
i tried but your metaphor makes very little sense.
That points to the problem, you see metaphor, where I am saying things plainly.
I am speaking what I mean, Not using metaphors, so yes, you deciding I am using metaphor, that you then try to decypher or decode WOULD give you headaches.
Try this, read what I write, Not what you imagine I mean. You’ll get less headaches.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
What I enjoy is Playing with my wife. The problem is, My main is level 85, and she is level 40. So what should i do? Play My main, and tell her " let me Know when you catch up?"
There is a word for those couples, they are called " Divorced."
Secondly, I Play in level apprpriate areas. Not sure where you get this from. I am playing a level 40 Monk…In a level 40 zone.
How is that playing in a zone half my level?
resource nodes are usually tied to suggested char level.
You wont find copper in high level areas even thou your character crafting level is quite low. it was quite common to outlevel your crafting
Are you even reading My posts? when did i talk about Mining copper on My level 40 monk, on another game?
tl:dr; you are asking anet solve a difficult problem. Make crafting easy, time sink\gold sink and profitable
choose two.
Nope I am Not asking Anet to do anything other than remove the artificial tax on bags that demands i Buy an overpriced sigil. Since I know they won’t. I am waiting patiently for…well…read my new sig.
Lastly I do Not want crafting to be easy. I simply do not wish to pay through the nose every step of the creation process.
if it takes a long time to level awesome. Point to where I said I wanted it easy.
I also want it to be not just profitable at some point but rewarding. Not the same thing.
Sometimes all it takes to be rewarding is be able to craft a mini-pet.
Lastly, you need to start paying attention to what I actually write. Not what you THINK I am trying to say. Example… I mentioned Mining GOLD. you seemed to think I was Mining copper, even though I never ever said copper. That led you to concluding I was Mining in zones half my level. See what I mean?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
I think we are talking past one another, you discuss " barriers of entry" and " giant time/gold sinks that are boring"
The thing is, they may be boring to you. Just because you find them boring doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you that they are boring.
I happen to enjoy crafting, as to bars of entry… the only entry fee was 10 copper to get apprentice engineer, and 10 copper for apprentice miner.
Is it a Time sink? Of course it is. But let me redefine that … is it a Time sink for me? hell no. Know why? because I find crafting enjoyable.
If i am enjoying what I do, I do not care How Long it takes me to level it up to where it begins to be profitable. If On the other hand all I want it for is to provide me with 10 or 12 levels worth of xp, or whatever, then yes, it is BOTH a time, and a gold sink.
I happen to enjoy engineering, so running all over the map, Looking for Gold Nodes..etc.. so that I can make Gold cores… so i can add them to My compact harvester kit, that lasts a few fights, for me, is not a time sink…or a Gold sink…. it is me doing what I enjoy doing.
I can enjoy that on another game, …i do not have that experience here.
So, you love going to low level areas to grind mat although you are already 2 times the player level? It not unusual you fight enemies much below your current level. You are force to grind the same maps because the kitten game designer didnt bother adding a plentiful amount of nodes.
Remember, some games share resource nodes with other players. I usually find bots taking all the resource.
What I enjoy is Playing with my wife. The problem is, My main is level 85, and she is level 40. So what should i do? Play My main, and tell her " let me Know when you catch up?"
There is a word for those couples, they are called " Divorced."
Secondly, I Play in level apprpriate areas. Not sure where you get this from. I am playing a level 40 Monk…In a level 40 zone.
How is that playing in a zone half my level?
Thirdly… what are you talking about me being FORCED to grind mats In ones half my level?? I am mining nodes where I also happen to be questing. Not going to go to a level 60 zone to Mine at level 40. So Not sure what you are talking about. I am level 40, I mine in a level 40 zone, as to " Bots" I see More Bots In Gw2, than in othjer games. I cannot stand In DR without getting 5 spams In 4 minutes offering me " the bets Goldz!"
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
That is My point, we CAN do better. But just to correct you. All my profits on that other game come from sale to players, not sale to merchants.
What I do sell to merchants are quest rewards that I do not need as upgrades. They are BoP, and not transferable…but their sale to merchants provides a steady stream of income. Enough to cover Gold sinks so they are never felt.
All I can say is what my eyes see, my ears hear, and I experience.
if you are correct that John Smith said that the Crafting system would Not generate profit, I wish i had known that before I reached max level on my Mesmer Tailor.
Maybe it’s my fault for not doing enough research into the game, to learn that no benefit would come from maxing tailoring other than the xp acquired. I Just figured something this counter-intuitive would never have occuured for me to research.
I don’t understand, this doesn’t seem to me to be a smart move. Why include crafting in the first place?
I dont think you understand anything about markets. The reason crafting in other games is profitable is because it is a giant time/gold that is extremely boring. The only way to increase the price of a good that is extremely easy to make is to create barriers of entry. If crafting is easy, it is a red flag that it will not be profitable
btw, our conversation will be much different because getting max level at a profitable crafting is around the same as getting enough gold for an legendary at current prices.
If you want an example of a real economy play eve online
I think we are talking past one another, you discuss " barriers of entry" and " giant time/gold sinks that are boring"
The thing is, they may be boring to you. Just because you find them boring doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you that they are boring.
I happen to enjoy crafting, as to bars of entry… the only entry fee was 10 copper to get apprentice engineer, and 10 copper for apprentice miner.
Is it a Time sink? Of course it is. But let me redefine that … is it a Time sink for me? hell no. Know why? because I find crafting enjoyable.
if i am enjoying what I do, I do not care How Long it takes me to level it up to where it begins to be profitable. If On the other hand all I want it for is to provide me with 10 or 12 levels worth of xp, or whatever, then yes, it is BOTH a time, and a gold sink.
I happen to enjoy engineering, so running all over the map, Looking for Gold Nodes..etc.. so that I can make Gold cores… so i can add them to My compact harvester kit, that lasts a few fights, for me, is not a time sink…or a Gold sink…. it is me doing what I enjoy doing.
I can enjoy that on another game, …i do not have that experience here.
Sometimes people craft because crafting is fun. Sometimes people do not consider " Time/gold sink per xp gained" because for them it’s irrelevant.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
If they added the following the game would be better (and more profitable):
-Guild Halls (Guild Wars 2, still no halls).
-GvG.
-Capes.
-Black Lion interface organization and restructuring.
-Personal homes in home instances.
-Combat changes including nerfs to: stacking, zerging, etc.
-Content that includes new zones, armor, and weapons; not just story.
-And misc. such as clipping issues, etc.
The Game needs an overhaul to Mob AI, so that combat feels More Like a strategic, and tactical use of your skills, along with those of your team mates, and less of a DPS fest to eat your way through the Huge HP of Mobs, before they pull off a Move that can kill you, that you mistimed your dodge about.
In MY opinion, what would improve this game immencely, is of mobs hit more often for less. that way while you may dodge a Blow or two, Not all will be dodgeable.
Also, what’s wrong with NOT giving the Mobs access to our skills they way they did in Guild Wars? ( There is No Guild Wars 2.) Gw2 just seems to have fallen asleep at Mob AI, given them a Huge health pool, One big Power attack, and said " there ya go..Oh wait , new zone, let me give it a new skin… last zone was tigers…this zone is zebras."
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
As I see it, I think we are all talking past one another using terms that do Not mean the same thing.
I talk about wanting an expansion. For me… an expansion is not about " permanent content". For me an expansion, expands how i play the game in some suignificant way.
New skills, new professions, new weapons, and may include new maps… but is not limited to just new maps… new cool things to craft.
many people hear me say " I want a new expansions" and then point me to Posts where the devs say that Season 2 will have permanent content.
For me…permanent content does not equal an expansion.
Content can be permanent and Not be an expansion, as I define expansion.
Maybe the devs introduce a new area with new Mobs to kill.. and this area is permanent. But I am killing them with the same exact weapons, same exact skills, same exact classes…. as far as I am concerned…that may be " new permanent content" and also be " Not an expansion"
I am certain from my readings of what others have posted, that that is their understanding as well….
“New permanent content” does not necessarily equal " expansion"
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Is it worth repeating, yet again, they had one of their employees (wasn’t it John Smith) confirm they did not want crafting to yield profit when concerning sale to NPCs. The profit is supposed to occur when other players get involved . . . but it doesn’t, because nobody pays for it. I’m guessing more would rather farm for it, and sell the by-products of farming.
Honestly, if more people bought 20 Slot bags for a bigger margin over the TP, I’d make them for sale. But they don’t. They don’t even pay for crafted rares/exotics usually. It’s usually better to craft a rare, then break it down into its components with a Master Salvage Kit for Ecto (after a certain threshold of equipment level) and sell that than it is to sell the item.
The strange thing is, this isn’t unique to this game. It happened in UO too – high-power magical equipment was generally easier to acquire off dead things. Either the original drop off greater monsters, or off some unlucky person who you hit with “An Ex Por” (Paralyze) followed by a pair of “Corp Por” (Energy Bolts) when you weren’t paying attention. (This would usually catch anyone who was being sloppy, which was 80% of the general public.)
And again, crafting in EQ was such a pointless and boring gold-sink . . . way more than in GW2 . . . they had to put shinies from quests to entice people to do it. (Heck, there was a period I think it was possible to fail combinations and lose your materials, when said materials might represent a considerable amount of money.)
On the one hand, thank god we’re past that . . . on the other hand, we can do better . . . right?
That is My point, we CAN do better. But just to correct you. All my profits on that other game come from sale to players, not sale to merchants.
What I do sell to merchants are quest rewards that I do not need as upgrades. They are BoP, and not transferable…but their sale to merchants provides a steady stream of income. Enough to cover Gold sinks so they are never felt.
All I can say is what my eyes see, my ears hear, and I experience.
if you are correct that John Smith said that the Crafting system would Not generate profit, I wish i had known that before I reached max level on my Mesmer Tailor.
Maybe it’s my fault for not doing enough research into the game, to learn that no benefit would come from maxing tailoring other than the xp acquired. I Just figured something this counter-intuitive would never have occuured for me to research.
I don’t understand, this doesn’t seem to me to be a smart move. Why include crafting in the first place?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
you just stated you were level 40 in that other game you’re comparing with. Thats not even 1/2 there to level cap. The equivalent to that would be 10 slot bag not the 20 slot bag which requires a rune that costs 5s not 10g which you can earn doing like 2 dynamic events of that level and that take far less then 2 hrs to complete. Dont compare max level with mid level compare the same lvl of bags on both games.
Ok.. here’s the thing. I have a max level tailor that makes My bags for me, No it’s NOT My level 40 Monk. I see where the confusion set in. I make bags with my main who is also a level 85 warlock with maximum tailoring.
I no longer play this character since I am devoted to time with My wife. And she is only level 40. I use her only for farming cloth for bags for me, and my alts.
I can see where the confusion Kicked in.
The issue with the other game is, that 20 slot bags is tied behind level requirement and skill requirement in tailoring. The clothes drop readilly enough… No need to gather for more than a couple Hours for 1 or 2 bags. Getting to the place, by taking commercial flight takes maybe 20 minutes from a major city. Once there, Mobs for a level 85 drop very quickly and easilly.
here is how i feel about it, Tailoring was something that I levelled slowly, as time passed. I got My hands On cloths that i then used to make armor, at first I sold it back to merchants, after they started giving stat boosts, i saccrificed them for the disenchants …
At no time did I feel i was investing 90 % of My cash to creat or craft an item.
In gw2, before I even get to make the bag,. I need a 10 g sigil. In that other game, the 20 slotters sell for a couple hundred gold. And the cost in negligeable.
in BOTH games you need to use cloths that drop or buy cloths.
In that other game cloths drop often, and special cloths I can farm, since I Know where they drop. In Gw2, I tend to end up… buying them off the TP. that is assuming that I do not have any saved up… and to save them up, I need a salvage kit to extract the cloth.
In that other game, I can have zero cloths, and end up with a 20 slot bag that sells for over 150 to 180 g. In 2 hours…. In gw2…I can’t.
I either need to buy the cloth, or farm the cloth, which means use up multiple Salvage kits..(more money in expenses), then I have to buy the sigil… and then once the bag is made… it sells. at a Loss. because of the sigil I am forced to buy.
In that other game, i MAKE money, and quickly. here if i decide to be a crafter, i LOSE Money, Not sure How else to explain it, so i will leave you with this, and hope you can understand.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
You don’t really seem to understand the concept of a gold sink do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink
And seriously, oh noes, we have to buy salvage kits! You’re like those people who complain about the piddling 2s to use waypoints.
I’ll ignore the insulting tone.
The fact is, I do understand the concept of Gold Sinks Just fine. My issue is not with the fact that they exist. They also exist in another game I play.
The difference is, needing to buy a 10 g sigil to sell a bag that then sells for 12g, when it costs me over 4g worth of materials that I could have simply sold on the ah… is a Bit stiff of a Gold sink.
it seems heavy handed, if not downright punitive.
In THIS game Crafting serves One purpose, acquiring XP, from crafting… and maybe crafting something of use at level 80.
In another game i could mention crafting provides items I can use, and enjoy using in and of themselves.
Second:
In another game, it is easier to just acquire Gold by playing the game doing anything i wish. I have 5,000 g in the bank at level 40. My Girlfriend has 1,000 g by level 40.
I Like to play Auction House, she just skins and sells for whatever Auctioneer recommends she sell for.
so yes, there are Gold sinks… but when money is easy to earn, no one cares about spending 4000 g for a artisan flying licence.
On the other hand when you only make 13g for a bag, .. 10g for a sigil that is mandatory to craft it…is steep.
How much can be earned by purely..Playing the game… is crucial to determine if a Gold sink is exorbitant.
One small problem, arenanet didnt set the 12g price the bag sells for on the ah, players did. Why is it so low because getting that bag isnt that big of a deal. for a farmer thats less then 1hr of work to get the best bag in the game. In other game you mention I imagine it would take far longer then that to craft that bag hence why people are willing to pay a lot more then its worth in raw materials.
The issue is not the 12g price onn the AH, the issue is, before it even gets to the AH in Gw2, I needed to buy a sigil that cost 10g.
In other games while the bags sell a LOT more dearly, there is also greater ease in making Gold, somply though Playing the game doing whatever I wish.
Gold..in that game, is something that just happens..as i play the game doing what I wish.
What do I care if buying the best bag costs 500g, if i can make 500g easilly?
What do i care if buying the best bag costs 500g, if I end up with more than that from simply plying the game doing what I wish?
What do I care about the best bag costing 500 g, when i can make money through crafting? If I can put A, B, and C together, and make something that sells to other players because that item has a use, and there is a market for that item? Do I really care that the best bag costs 500g?
I do not Know of any bag that takes Up More than 2 hours of my time to acquire. So Not sure what you are talking about.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Right now the game requires reading to learn. This has several problems that I can see.
One is that not all people can read. There are large numbers of functionally illiterate people out there. However if they plunked down the money for the game then they are entitled to the same care and consideration as the fluent readers. Which means a method of teaching that isn’t reading base.
Intellectual incuriosity. A person can be intellectually incurious and yet still learn if the game teaches as you play, the same way thay people will learn that fire is hot without looking it up. Life taught them this without requiring them to research it.
Different brains are wired differently. Some people learn easily through reading while others require a hands on approach to learning. These people can be intellectually curious and look it up yet not have the information sink in until they do it themselves.
Many people “just want to play, not do research”. There is no reason that the game should fail to teach them. The designers should be well aware that this is a subset of their players.
Lack of understanding that there is even something to look up. Or not knowing where to look it up.
Truly, to learn how to play a game, at least the basic information should be taught in game. If there are people who get to level 80 and ask then what a combo field is, then the game is relying to much on outside research.
I agree. This is simply another case where the game developer failed In their responsibilities to it’s playerbase with an item that other games handle reasonably well…. Tutorials…( if they can handle tutorials, why can’t Anet?).
I think that Anet need not fear. Judging from the responses. There seems to be an endless stream of players that do not expect a lot from Anet. That seem completely happy with anything they do, and if they don’t do something that any other game company is able to do..( provide a decent tutorial) .. they don’t seem to care or be bothered.
In that sense Anet crafted the perfect game, in a perfect way, to suit it’s target audience.
Anyone else that has any complaints seems Like at least judging from this target playerbase… " Good riddance, don’t need ya… there’s the door. "
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Even though I never spent a penny of real money on the gems they made me feel like a valued customer.
You are discounting the fact that while you may not have paid with real world cash, my understanding is, you payed for those gems with in game gold.
In Game Gold represents effort put into the game, time spent. You did something in game theat generated that Gold, so either you put time in, or you used your mind to generate the gold that you then exchanged for gems, that then went into Buying what you bought.
The reason why Anet treated you like a paying customer is, you are a paying customer.
They did not treat you special, because they were jumping all over themselves to treat you In a way you had not earned.
if I had accumulated Gold, that I then turned to Gems, and I spent those gems… and had an issue, I would Not just appreciate being treated like a paying customer, i would demand it.
Why? because " someone else paid for it already"? No….
because I…paid for it.
This isn’t a “Gift Voucher” situation, he did NOT Just log in, and have someone GIFT him the items. He payed for them, with gems he bought with Gold he accrued.
let’s not give Anet TOO much a pat on the back..for doing what they are supposed to do.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
1. It is always tricky to say what is OP and what is not but one thing I think happens is there is this prevailant believe that GW2 is all about DPS and nothing else. If you try to out DPS a warrior with a necro you’re most certainly going to fail and the warrior will feel OP. Thing is all classes can do a lot but they all have their own strength and weaknesses. If i am facing a warrior with my necro I will try to disrupt him as much as possible while putting in conditions on him for example.
2. no expansion doesnt mean no new classes or no new weapons. They can do that as well and they said it already that expansion or not there will be new weapons and new classes with an emphasis that new weapons would probably come first.
3. gold trading outside of what anet provides is already against the terms and if caught you’ll get banned.
4. mirrors what i said about 1. its not just about DPS, though people seem to ignore there is also the control and support aspect of a class as well. An elementalist and a mesmer can boost the whole party damage by 80% while also disrupting the enemy and removing conditions from allies as well as DPS a bit. that means you get more overall damage then having 5 straight up warriors while also mitigating a good amount of damage recieved by the party. It has its advantages.
5. I wouldnt say crafting is useless. Its a good way to gear up cheaply. A good way to trying to acquire a precursor or one of the rare named weapons. Its a good way to get consumables.
actually its not a good way to gear up, in general most crafting recipes are done at a loss, meaning the materials are worth more. Not really good for consumables except cooking, but a great many cooking recipes are not worth thier price in materials well. Honestly, ill say they did not put crafting in the world well, they built the game in a way so that everyone should craft, i dont think that is a good paradigm.
well thats provided you have the money before hand though. If you just reached 80 its unlikely you’re going to have enough money to buy a full set but if you decided to craft it it will not matter. Granted you could always gather then material sell them and buy the stuff anyway, its an option sure but then you’ll also sacrifcing leveling your crafting and there are a few things that are cheaper to get / maintain with crafting then buying directly.
Did they? how is the game build in a way that everyone should craft? like you just said crafting is entirely optional and if anything not really the best option either in most cases. Think the issue is most likely that crafting gives leveling XP and thus a lot of people use it as a way to level their character up which in turn saturate the market with items that are sold simply to get some of the leveling investment back rather then to make a profit thus having people open to undercutting each other more then they should.
The problem is Crafting is Bland and generic. You make armor? So what,…armor also drops off Mobs. Maybe the skin is different, but it’s the same armot.
You make a sword? or a Bow? Again…so what?
On another game, you can make a mechanical squirrel with engineering. You can make a Motorcycle. You can make a Robot that tanks for you, or an agro magnet that waves it’s hands with a cardboard cut out of a Big breasted woman sporting cleavage with a smile on her face.
The irony for me is…each of these items are items that casual gamers would love to have. Unfortunately Anet places them in the gem shop.
Why Not have crafting create cool items that have zero benefit to combat, but are fun to have? a pet mechanical squirrel that follows you around, Like a Mini-pet but without the need to buy one from the gem store? Or maybe If you don’t want Mounts, you can have a One time use only mechanical tiger that you built from materials you mined, give it X HP… can’t be healed, when it dies it dies. Or give it a time limit.
Why can’t crafting have cool things in it?
Sometimes whe there is little difference between what you can craft, and what the game allows you to loot off Mobs,…. there is little need or use for crafting in and of itself. Crafting just becomes " another source of xp"
The sad part is, seeing the potential of crafting, and Not seeing Anet get even close to it. It’s simply another part of the game that could have been awesome, and is Bland and generic.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
First I tend not to badmouth other games. There are exceptions, but I wasn’t badmouthing anything. I was simply stating a truth that without knowing that game, the statement you made was completely meaningless. Your response changes nothing.
This isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve played a LOT of MMOs. And I mean a lot. Lotro, DDO, WoW, Guild Wars (I know it’s not a true MMO), Perfect World, RoM, TSW, AoC and I’ve tried a bunch of others.
I don’t badmouth them. I simply say this game is better for my play style, which remains true. It is. But you can’t compare economies from different games. Well you can, but you shouldn’t.
If you want to say I find gold to come by hard in this game, by all means say that. But another game’s economy doesn’t really tell us anything. What you’re essentially saying is I once played a game and that game had better quests because of whatever.
No one can argue the point unless you name the game and they’ve played it.
I guess what he is saying is that in many other mmo’s you simply work directly towards your items. There is no gold-sink in that. In fact while working towards that you even earn some money.
Then the gold-grind in the game (his example is a flying license) should not be the biggest problem. Sure it might be costly but you do not start to need grinding gold to be able to buy it. So there is no real gold-grind in the game.
Now in GW2 for many items there is already a gold-grind. You can’t work directly towards most items so you are already in need of gold.. well depending on your play-style. I think somebody who does not care for such things and just runs WvW all day will ave plenty of gold.
Then it does not matter if we are talking about 1000 gold or 10 copper but the need for that 1000 gold or 10 copper and the ’ requirement’ to grind gold to get anything.
In his example he has a craft that he does (earning the mats easy in the game by directly working towards them) he then create things and can even earn money with it. In GW2 for many mats (higher tier mats at least) it’s not possible to work directly towards it. So it’s grinding gold to get them. Then in many cases you also need to put in an item you have to buy from a vendor, so more gold and then you have an item you can’t really earn any gold on. So then you craft for the items you might want but that are basically only the legendary weapons and the ascended gear (at lvl 400 and 500). So up until then it’s a complete gold-grind. Not so much playing the game as in the game of his example.
And in that way you can off course with no problem compare games.
Only if you isolate the economy from the rest of the game. But then you use the word grind. If you need 10 copper you don’t have to grind gold. You have to do like a single dynamic event. You have to play and pretty much do anything. Chopping down a tree or mining a copper node will give you more than 10 copper.
The idea of a gold sink is important in a game where everything can pretty much be bought and sold. But you don’t have to do any of that, if you don’t want to.
You will get enough money to “live” in this game without grinding. That amounts right now to basically teleport fees, since they removed armor repair.
Do you need big bags? Not really. But if you did need very big bags, in theory you’d be playing the game. What do you need bags for if you’re not killing anything. If you’re not in a fractal or dungeon it should be pretty easy to find a heart guy to sell to.
Do you need 18 slot bags? I still have characters that don’t have them.
And karma is a currency too. Most weapons and armors at least while leveling can be bought with karma. Everyone says it’s a useless currency but it’s not if you happen not to have enough gold.
If you WvW a lot, you’ll have badges of honor that do much the same thing.
You can’t remove the economy from the rest of the game and try to analyze it. Or again, you can, but it would be relatively meaningless.
You say you have characters without 18 slot bags therefore I do not need them.
Thank you for deciding for me what my needs are …lol…
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
In his example he has a craft that he does (earning the mats easy in the game by directly working towards them) he then create things and can even earn money with it.
. . . I dunno about more recent games, but in older ones I listed off, there was only one example I had of “easily finding it in the game” and that was Ultima Online. It was dirt simple to find iron, wood, and cloth to do the various crafts. Alchemy was slightly more problematic since reagents could be a problem in a highly populated area (vendors only stocked so much, after all).
The only game I tried crafting in was EverQuest and really, there was nothing but pain and gold loss going into any of those crafting disciplines. And to cap it, most of what dropped was far better than things you could craft. With maybe exceptions I could count on one hand which were added years after release.
There were two attempts to entice players to jump into the gold sink which was crafting, though. First was a set of quests using crafting skills of various types (almost ALL types in fact) to work up a chain of objects to a moderately useful high-level piece of armor. (Coldain Shawl quests, for those who played.) The trouble was, almost all the final pieces needed had to be crafted and couldn’t be acquired from other players. So off you go to the grind!
Later there was a much nicer example (in the Plane of Knowledge) but it still required you to do some ungodly grind to get the parts, let alone the skill required. Gods be with you for attempting the cooking leg of that one . . .
In GW2 for many mats (higher tier mats at least) it’s not possible to work directly towards it. So it’s grinding gold to get them. Then in many cases you also need to put in an item you have to buy from a vendor, so more gold and then you have an item you can’t really earn any gold on. So then you craft for the items you might want but that are basically only the legendary weapons and the ascended gear (at lvl 400 and 500). So up until then it’s a complete gold-grind. Not so much playing the game as in the game of his example.
Honestly, I don’t quite see why this is the case. Most crafted gear is worn through relatively fast, so it’s not a matter of needing a delay between level tiers. Furthermore, there’s an ample chance you’ll find rare gear often enough while pounding out gold for those Fine Materials you’ll be merely saving for your Exotic pieces and to work them up.
(Fun note: getting the Gift of Quartz makes this simple, since Celestial gear is more or less a piece of cake to get for.)
And in that way you can off course with no problem compare games.
Eh, GW2 is considerably more useful in its results than EQ and I don’t find it anywhere near as tough to get ingredients as I did my crafting in that game. (“Hey, let’s make the only crab meat you can get drop in the most annoying Elemental Plane to fight in!”)
. . . I do almost kind of miss East Karana silk farming though. Almost.
The problem is… My complaints about Gw2 are froma crafter’s perspective, Not talking about Armor… talking about going somewhere. And farming the materials i need. So I can then craft what I wish to craft, and sell or use.
In Gw2 MY experience has been that if you need something Like ancient Bone… i takes an incredibly long period of time to farm… MY experience is, that after a certain amount of time, the Bone just stops dropping.
In another game I play, I take My warlock to A specific place, farm up frostweave. And I can do so quickly… craft a 20 slot bag, and either send it to My alts… or sell on the AH. There are only 2 items i need, to craft it… thread i can buy cheaply off a vendor… not a 10 g sigil for a bag that then sells On the TP for 12g. ( sweat shop rates)…. and something i already have because I disenchant all greens I come across.
Disenchanting with an item I crafted from something I crafted, from something I crafted, from a rod i could buy cheaply off a vendor.
As Devata said. I can go and directly farm the materials I want, and the side benefit is Gold. That I can then use on the gold sinks, such that I never notice the gold sinks.
Not go out and GRIND gold to then go on the TP to BUY the materials I need… cause then I need to grind for gold.. and makes it feel less Like a game, and More Like a Job simulator where I play a Poorly paid independant contractor of Anet.
PS I do miss silk farming in the East karanas.
PPS: There is a difference between grinding for gold, and farming for mats. I find the former unappealing since it turns the game into another job. But The latter quite entertaining.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
If you want to say I find gold to come by hard in this game, by all means say that. But another game’s economy doesn’t really tell us anything. What you’re essentially saying is I once played a game and that game had better quests because of whatever.
No one can argue the point unless you name the game and they’ve played it.
The reason I don’t name the name is, that sometimes the inclusion of 3 letters naming the game that shall not be named is enough to get the whole post deleted.
I do believe I have left enough information that the name can be determined.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
First I tend not to badmouth other games. There are exceptions, but I wasn’t badmouthing anything. I was simply stating a truth that without knowing that game, the statement you made was completely meaningless. Your response changes nothing.
This isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve played a LOT of MMOs. And I mean a lot. Lotro, DDO, WoW, Guild Wars (I know it’s not a true MMO), Perfect World, RoM, TSW, AoC and I’ve tried a bunch of others.
I don’t badmouth them. I simply say this game is better for my play style, which remains true. It is. But you can’t compare economies from different games. Well you can, but you shouldn’t.
If you want to say I find gold to come by hard in this game, by all means say that. But another game’s economy doesn’t really tell us anything. What you’re essentially saying is I once played a game and that game had better quests because of whatever.
No one can argue the point unless you name the game and they’ve played it.
I guess what he is saying is that in many other mmo’s you simply work directly towards your items. There is no gold-sink in that. In fact while working towards that you even earn some money.
Then the gold-grind in the game (his example is a flying license) should not be the biggest problem. Sure it might be costly but you do not start to need grinding gold to be able to buy it. So there is no real gold-grind in the game.
Now in GW2 for many items there is already a gold-grind. You can’t work directly towards most items so you are already in need of gold.. well depending on your play-style. I think somebody who does not care for such things and just runs WvW all day will ave plenty of gold.
Then it does not matter if we are talking about 1000 gold or 10 copper but the need for that 1000 gold or 10 copper and the ’ requirement’ to grind gold to get anything.
In his example he has a craft that he does (earning the mats easy in the game by directly working towards them) he then create things and can even earn money with it. In GW2 for many mats (higher tier mats at least) it’s not possible to work directly towards it. So it’s grinding gold to get them. Then in many cases you also need to put in an item you have to buy from a vendor, so more gold and then you have an item you can’t really earn any gold on. So then you craft for the items you might want but that are basically only the legendary weapons and the ascended gear (at lvl 400 and 500). So up until then it’s a complete gold-grind. Not so much playing the game as in the game of his example.
And in that way you can off course with no problem compare games.
Thank you! Someone understood me. For a sec I thought…" am i Just Not making myself understood?"
And it’s She, not He :-)
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You don’t really seem to understand the concept of a gold sink do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink
And seriously, oh noes, we have to buy salvage kits! You’re like those people who complain about the piddling 2s to use waypoints.
I’ll ignore the insulting tone.
The fact is, I do understand the concept of Gold Sinks Just fine. My issue is not with the fact that they exist. They also exist in another game I play.
The difference is, needing to buy a 10 g sigil to sell a bag that then sells for 12g, when it costs me over 4g worth of materials that I could have simply sold on the ah… is a Bit stiff of a Gold sink.
it seems heavy handed, if not downright punitive.
In THIS game Crafting serves One purpose, acquiring XP, from crafting… and maybe crafting something of use at level 80.
In another game i could mention crafting provides items I can use, and enjoy using in and of themselves.
Second:
In another game, it is easier to just acquire Gold by playing the game doing anything i wish. I have 5,000 g in the bank at level 40. My Girlfriend has 1,000 g by level 40.
I Like to play Auction House, she just skins and sells for whatever Auctioneer recommends she sell for.
so yes, there are Gold sinks… but when money is easy to earn, no one cares about spending 4000 g for a artisan flying licence.
On the other hand when you only make 13g for a bag, .. 10g for a sigil that is mandatory to craft it…is steep.
How much can be earned by purely..Playing the game… is crucial to determine if a Gold sink is exorbitant.
The other game is irrelevant unless we all know the economy because the currencies aren’t normalized. I had tons of gold in another game, but in that game, gold filled the role that copper does in Guild Wars 2. I could have had a million gold and it would have meant nothing.
I played a game where I had 100,000 gold and I still couldn’t buy a decent weapon with it. Any game where gold is easy to get for everyone means greater inflation and things cost more. Any game with an auction house anyway.
If players can decide what to charge for stuff, they can only charge as much as players can afford. It’s a self regulated system. If everyone has more gold, then people selling stuff will charge more, because they can…that’s for rare items, obviously.
The thing is, that in the other game, I have tons of Gold, and can afford anything i want, By playing the game, and not going to any extra efforts, which is my meaning.
I do not need 5000g to buy a sword On the AH, I do not need to spend 2 copper to buy a sword On the AH, I get the sword as a quest reward or a drop off some Mob.
I can understand the desire to put down all games other than your favorite game.
I can also say that I am level 40… and have the Money saived up for my level 60 flying mount Liscence. In Guild wars 2. for some reason 10g seems steep for a sigil, that i HAVE to buy to make a bag that sells for 12 gold, hence why i do not make bags.
I can understand the desire to color any other economy in any other game as worse than that of your favorite game, but that is as I said on another thread… trying to talk me Into disbelieving what my eyes can plainly see.
As someone once said " A recession is when you are out of work, a depression is when I am out of work."
" who are you gonna believe… me? or your lying eyes?" I choose to believe my lying eyes.
I Know when things are effortless game-wise. And i know when i can afford what i wish to buy, and Gw2 doesn’t help me feel either experience lately.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You don’t really seem to understand the concept of a gold sink do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink
And seriously, oh noes, we have to buy salvage kits! You’re like those people who complain about the piddling 2s to use waypoints.
I’ll ignore the insulting tone.
The fact is, I do understand the concept of Gold Sinks Just fine. My issue is not with the fact that they exist. They also exist in another game I play.
The difference is, needing to buy a 10 g sigil to sell a bag that then sells for 12g, when it costs me over 4g worth of materials that I could have simply sold on the ah… is a Bit stiff of a Gold sink.
it seems heavy handed, if not downright punitive.
In THIS game Crafting serves One purpose, acquiring XP, from crafting… and maybe crafting something of use at level 80.
In another game i could mention crafting provides items I can use, and enjoy using in and of themselves.
Second:
In another game, it is easier to just acquire Gold by playing the game doing anything i wish. I have 5,000 g in the bank at level 40. My Girlfriend has 1,000 g by level 40.
I Like to play Auction House, she just skins and sells for whatever Auctioneer recommends she sell for.
so yes, there are Gold sinks… but when money is easy to earn, no one cares about spending 4000 g for a artisan flying licence.
On the other hand when you only make 13g for a bag, .. 10g for a sigil that is mandatory to craft it…is steep.
How much can be earned by purely..Playing the game… is crucial to determine if a Gold sink is exorbitant.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
@Nerelith
you keep acting like Gold sinks exist only in Gw2 . As I already explained thats not the case.
So lets go with your steampunkish helicopter.. I am assume you’re talking about the Turbo-Charged Flying machine right?You may not need to use a salvage kit to get materials you need but there are some costs you need to pay in order to build that thing. Not just that but you also need to use picks and tools that have an ongoing repair cost not really any different than having to buy a salvage kit.
This shows you don’t know what you are talking about. Fact is, I mine fine and don’t have any mining pick, so don’t need to pay to maintain what i do not own.
Lets see shall we.
First is the recipe that you can only acquire by paying for it. – 18g
You need a hula girl doll that can only be bought from an NPC. – at least 80g
98g at level 70? The issue is not the direct or indirect costs it is how easy it is to generate money doing what I feel like doing. As an example, my girlfriend is a skinner, and at level 40, she banked 1,000g purely from selling skins. How much will we have by level 70? Will 98g be in anyway a significant expense? or will we barely notice?
Those are the direct costs but you also have indirect costs:
You need a pick and you need to repair it when it degrades.
Again, untrue. No pick needed.
You need tools to craft that degrades and also needs repairing now and then
we must be playing different games. I keep my hammer and other engineering tools in the bank. Maybe you mean if I have them with me, I need to pay to fix them when i die? Not sure, since I never carry them with me. All I know is… the only thing I need to pay to maintain is my armor, and weapons.
Tools…degrade? We talking about the same game?
You need to have high enough mining level that requires paying trainers at every stage.
You need to know how to smelt the ores involved and you have to pay trainers to learn them.
Agreed, but what you fail to even discuss is, you also need that in gw2. And in WoW the Gold is so easy to earn just going about doing what you feel like doing. Not having to go into dungeons and farm them repeatedly. I do quests, I get upgraded armor, I don’t need an AH to buy, and I sell to vendors what i get that way I do not use. And I have 5,000g in the bank by level 40 (playimng a Monk), because I like to use TSM. Again, None of these are relevant costs when the money needed for them is flowing into your pockets from just playing the game ayway you wish to play the game.
Unlike Gw2 where you need to play it as the devs decided to acquire wealth
Now dont get me wrong, Not bashing either game here. Gold sinks are essential for the economy and its a good thing they exist. Not just that but certainly not bashing the engineering profession in WoW, I’d love for something like that to exist in Gw2 for sure!
Just saying that it isn’t about how much it costs. it’s How Much it costs relative to how much cash can be gained by Simply playing the game anyway I wish…. as opposed to having to play specific content to acquire said welth.
My Girlfriend made over 1,000g by level 40 just skinning, and we have yet to see the inside of a dungeon. How does this compare with crafting in gw2? Where I need to buy a 10 g sigil to produce a bag that only sells for 11 to 13g.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
Seriously guys, how is this supposed to get fixed?
Encourage people to stop buying gems with gold, and to instead buy gems with $$ and sell those gems for gold. Since you want this number to go down, I’ll assume you’re wanting to buy gems with gold. In which case, you are part of the problem you are complaining about.
People who buy gems with $$ and sell those gems for gold want this number to go up up up. $10 used to only get you 8g, now it gets you 70g. I know which amount I’d rather get for $10.
I stopped buying Gems. I don’t like the game as it is. It bares little resemblance to Guild Wars. As far as I am concerned the root of a lot of problems is, that the loot tables are so " general" that you really cannot go to area A, Kill Mobs x, y, and z.. to collect Components G, H, and I. you need to grind gold to buy them On the TP. Which means grind gold Like it’s a job… ( no thanks i don’t log into Gw2 to work.)…or use gems to buy gold… to by what I need on the tp to craft. (no thanks , not anymore).
So that leaves me with the ONLY options that make sense for me. Not play…. or… when i DO play, NOT Buy Gems with cash, ..save up gold, and Buy Gems with Gold.
Sorry, Not going to reward this Mishegoss with real money. Not from me at least.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You mean the same arrogance you seem very terrible at projecting? Actually, I am wrong you seem more desperate than arrogant considering you had to resort to calling others white knight.
Players like you exist in every game, even world of warcraft has delusional players such as yourself the delude themselves into believing WOW is going to die because they don’t like the game.
Guild wars 2 has been out for 666 days and so far it is looking more healthier than games that were recently released. If guild wars 2 isn’t dead by now, it wont be dead due to whatever nonexistent reasons you want to give. It will go down due to its inevitable decline like every mmo does.
I would Hope I was terrible at projecting arrogance, since I do not consider myself arrogant, so thank you for the compliment.
That out of the way. Gw2 has flaws. There exist in every forum white knights that champion the company, regardless of the merits. They feel it is their responsibility, as a fan of the product to defend it regardless of whjether the faults are real or imagined, and whether their defence is based On logic or passion. They will resort to any and all methods to get " the enemy" to quiet down.
I am not saying anything you don’t Know, it just seems that me saying it upsets you.
Yes there are also people that will trash the game Just as passionately. …
I am not among them, I defended Anet, when it made decisions worth defending. I explained why I felt some choices made made sense. But at the same time, I am aware, that Anet is fallible.
So calling out faults of a product I payed for…is perfectly within my rights. And mentioning that there is White Knighting going on, may not be something people that enjoy the game like to hear, but it is the truth, as it is true On Wow forums, or ESO forums, or TSW forums..etc…
Or are you saying that white knights do not post on the gw2 forums?
You might not think you are arrogant but your posts say otherwise. Only an terrible arrogant person would believe just because they hate the game’s direction means the game is going to die. It is the same idiotic arguments a lot of players made when guild wars 2 first came out, when ascended gear was introduce and when the LS was announced. So there is a history of people trying to project their view onto others.
There is nothing inherently wrong with calling out a product flaws. The problem as shown by this thread is that a lot of people are calling out flaws out of ignorance. Their whole argument is based on the lack of understanding on how the system works. You see players complaining how TP player make more money than farming, but without understanding the why. YOu see others complain about the gold to gem ratio without understanding why.
The biggest source of your arrogance is your usage of the word white knight. You are so deluded into believing that anybody that doesn’t accept your point of view is clearly white knight and not someone who simply disagrees with you. A lot of people for example hate the LS, I like the concept of it because it is different than the same crap I have played for nearly 7 years, it has some flaws but what doesn’t. But if you were to read the forum, some people want WOW raid and so anybody that doesn’t want WOW raid is a white knight, anybody that dares to disagree with them is a white knight.
tl;dr
arrogant players consider opinions that make guild wars 2 different from the WOWs, ESO etc to be the white knights and not someone who has a different opinion from theirs.A lot of players usually claim to want something different the truth is, they want the same thing but somehow different.
What about the white knights? they don’t contribute to the Mishegoss? Or are you saying There are no white knights in Gw2 forums?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
The rate isn’t the same because the exchange takes 15% of gold going into and out of the exchange. That’s why the Gem->Gold is 72.25%, or 85% x 85%, of the Gold ->Gem rate. It discourages market players from playing the exchange over the short term.
and Anet just want your money. Having a different price means people get less from buying gold, so they’ll have to spend more real cash.
Quite honestly, some people want Anet to look good, so they come up with various reason(stop inflation, stop people from flipping). But the button line is Anet want your money, and people are complaining they have to pay real money or grind more gold.
But Anet doesn’t want their players to Grind gold, so what else does that leave?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You mean the same arrogance you seem very terrible at projecting? Actually, I am wrong you seem more desperate than arrogant considering you had to resort to calling others white knight.
Players like you exist in every game, even world of warcraft has delusional players such as yourself the delude themselves into believing WOW is going to die because they don’t like the game.
Guild wars 2 has been out for 666 days and so far it is looking more healthier than games that were recently released. If guild wars 2 isn’t dead by now, it wont be dead due to whatever nonexistent reasons you want to give. It will go down due to its inevitable decline like every mmo does.
I would Hope I was terrible at projecting arrogance, since I do not consider myself arrogant, so thank you for the compliment.
That out of the way. Gw2 has flaws. There exist in every forum white knights that champion the company, regardless of the merits. They feel it is their responsibility, as a fan of the product to defend it regardless of whjether the faults are real or imagined, and whether their defence is based On logic or passion. They will resort to any and all methods to get " the enemy" to quiet down.
I am not saying anything you don’t Know, it just seems that me saying it upsets you.
Yes there are also people that will trash the game Just as passionately. …
I am not among them, I defended Anet, when it made decisions worth defending. I explained why I felt some choices made made sense. But at the same time, I am aware, that Anet is fallible.
So calling out faults of a product I payed for…is perfectly within my rights. And mentioning that there is White Knighting going on, may not be something people that enjoy the game like to hear, but it is the truth, as it is true On Wow forums, or ESO forums, or TSW forums..etc…
Or are you saying that white knights do not post on the gw2 forums?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I think the worst thing to happen to MMO’s is this idea that selling in game gold for cash is the best way to fight 3rd party gold farmers that sell Gold against Eula and ToS.
It feels very much like " if you can’t beat them join them."
the developer has a conflict of interest.
Some in the player base will color anything remotely questionable as being of nefarious purpose,
and… The mere appearance of self serving design decisions will be greeted with a raised eyebrow and suspicion.
There was a time when buying in game gold was wrong. not because it was bought from a 3rd party gold trader, but because it was WRONG. Players were expected to PLAY the game to acquire gold, not swipe a credit card.
I really do thing that selling convenience , No biggy…+ 50 % xp per Kill for an hour potions.. no big deal.
But selling Gold just puts too many things into a different perspective when players know that the devs have a conflict between what will make the in game economy the best, and what will generate the greatest gem sales, and gem to gold conversions.
When looked at from that perspective, things like DR in game, just don’t seem to be purely about " holding inflation down"…
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.
Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.
If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.
You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.
As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.
The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.
if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.
Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.
Just like everyone else.
All on swap sigils have an internal 9 second cd. Aside from traited warriors weapon swap is 10 seconds. Ele and engi can swap far more frequently than any other class can, but that doesn’t mean that they can proc the on swap sigil faster than any other class, unless they swap right after that 9 second (only saving them ~1 second)
However the point the OP was making is that other classes have more options to place in their offhand set than engineers and eles can get access to. They are not saying they need a weapon swap so much as saying they need access to a second set of sigils.
Since stacking sigils now require the weapon with that sigil to remain on the character (even if its in an offset) ele and engi need to sacrifice one of their offensive or even defensive sigils to allow access to a stacking sigil while other classes just swap to that offset, kill a few guys, then switch back.
Personally as for the on swap sigils I don’t really care so much about. Its the stacking sigils and the very major choice ele and engi players need to make. To use a stacking sigil and lose any extra added on hit/crit effect, static buff (5% dmg/7%crit chance), on swap – Or not use the stacking buff and lose out on a large chunk of {insert stat/effect here}.
You know… you have a good Point there. I never thought about it that way. Any other class since they have a second weapon, they have a second set of sigils. 2 More sigils.
The only thing I can think of is that with 4 attunements, and with all the engineer kits, the devs Might say that tthey have access to many more skills. Elementalists get 20 instead of 10, Not counting heal, 3 utilities + 1 elite.
but I do see that Only having 2 sigils would be an issue. But curious….
How unbalanced woiuld it be for elementalists to get 4 attunements, 2 weapon sets per 4 attunements, and 4 sigils instead of 2?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I am amazed that gems isnt a key point in this argument.
More gold in economy =more gold converted to gems =higher gem value = more people spend real money = the most imporant thing for a non subscription game
less gold=less people buy gems = dead game.
Arenanets definition of a healthy economy is different from yours and thatss the way it should be
Megaserver
How do you figure?
Dead servers… hemmorhaging population, leads to megaserver.
Megaserver says that the game is dieing.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I am amazed that gems isnt a key point in this argument.
More gold in economy =more gold converted to gems =higher gem value = more people spend real money = the most imporant thing for a non subscription game
less gold=less people buy gems = dead game.
Arenanets definition of a healthy economy is different from yours and thatss the way it should be
Megaserver
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.
Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.
If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.
You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.
As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.
The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.
if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.
Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.
Just like everyone else.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You can also refer to the post about half way down the first page by John Smith, the games economist who states pretty flat out that there is no inflation and you are dumb if you think otherwise. (He’s a pretty blunt guy lol)
He does not state that inflation does not exist (which would be untrue, by the way). He states that it is not a major problem for GW2. Whether he is right on this is a matter for another debate, though.
We also need to remember who butters his bread, I’ll give you a hint, it’s not us.
Just because he says it’s not Major problem, doesn’t tell us for whom it’s not a Major problem , or what he considers a major problem. Are we talking single digit inflation? Double-digit inflation? Hyper-inflation?
What is HIS defenition of Major?
Secondly, something might NOT be a major problem for Anet, but be a Major problem for the players.
Thirdly, since Anet butters his bread, part of his responsibilities is stabilizing the market. Even if it means… spinning the facts. Just because an employee of Anet says " all is well" is No reason to toss out the evidence of your own eyes.
John Smith says not a major problem. My eyes see Inflation. As I said… For whom is John Smith saying that inflation is not a major problem??
Us?
Anet?
Our interests are not Anet’s interests, and neither is Anet’s ours.
Who butters John Smith’s bread?
Just remembered this lol:
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
There is nothing to fix because nothing is broken.
You can still get the same 1600 gems for $20 that you could when the game launched.
First of all, thats not playing the game. That is supporting the downfall of the game.
Secondly, those 20 dollar get you much more gold now. That is a problem.
Thats a problem? rewarding people who support the game? how is giving the company money supporting its downfall? are you insane? do you think about these things before you wright them?
Yes and I am saying that for over a year now.
Spending money on gems is supporting it’s downfall. It’s not supporting the game.
How is it better for the quality of a game to have haircuts available in a cash-shop then having a barber in the game?
How is having this endless boring gold-grind any good for the game?
How is having ‘cool’ items mainly bing in the cash-shop in stead of mainly in the game a positive?
How is having instruments in a cash-shop better then having a musician craft in the game.
How is it better to not being able to hunt down mini’s in the game-world as game-play but having most mini’s in the cash-shop (more gold-grind) or cash.
All that stuff it not better for the game. It’s taking elements out of the game, it has made the game a big gold-grind and so has only made the game worse. By buying gems that is exactly what you are supporting so yes that is bad for the game.
Wrote a whole topic about it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/page/3#post3593248 Have a read.
I agree. By buying gems Under this environment you send a message to the developers that you are perfectly happy if all the cool stuff is hidden behind the gem store. While very little actually makes it’s way to the game.
Another game that tried this was Tera. I remember these very discussions In Tera’s forums.
It’s Interesting that people were saying then." Gw2 just came out, am leaving this to go play Gw2,. the cash shop centric game this has turned to, is Not something I will support." and people there …railed as many here are railing now.
They also said " They will be back, they always come back."
Where is Tera now?
Your argument seem to forget something VERY critical about TERA and it is that TERA was a terrible game, the only good thing was the combat and they still manage to ruin it by making all skills lock you down.
The game failed even in Korea and they are more acceptable to the game’s mechanics.
Also show me a game forum that isn’t polluted with whining and QQs? People will always complain some because of genuine concern others because they think they deserve more than they actually do, like the OP.
There is a commonality with Gw2 forums though. The same Arrogant attitude. “They will come back, they always come back.”
Then when “they” don’t, and the game fails, players that are white knights that defend all actions By Anet, even actions that were they in some other game would make people wonder….. look around and ask.’ why are servers merging ( oops been tere, done that… i.e. Megaserver)… Why are people leaving???"
Jus’ sayin…. I can understand Liking a game, but white knighting it against all grievances??
- points to Tera’s corpse.* " There but by the Graces of the Six… go you."
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
There is nothing to fix because nothing is broken.
You can still get the same 1600 gems for $20 that you could when the game launched.
First of all, thats not playing the game. That is supporting the downfall of the game.
Secondly, those 20 dollar get you much more gold now. That is a problem.
Thats a problem? rewarding people who support the game? how is giving the company money supporting its downfall? are you insane? do you think about these things before you wright them?
Yes and I am saying that for over a year now.
Spending money on gems is supporting it’s downfall. It’s not supporting the game.
How is it better for the quality of a game to have haircuts available in a cash-shop then having a barber in the game?
How is having this endless boring gold-grind any good for the game?
How is having ‘cool’ items mainly bing in the cash-shop in stead of mainly in the game a positive?
How is having instruments in a cash-shop better then having a musician craft in the game.
How is it better to not being able to hunt down mini’s in the game-world as game-play but having most mini’s in the cash-shop (more gold-grind) or cash.
All that stuff it not better for the game. It’s taking elements out of the game, it has made the game a big gold-grind and so has only made the game worse. By buying gems that is exactly what you are supporting so yes that is bad for the game.
Wrote a whole topic about it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/page/3#post3593248 Have a read.
I agree. By buying gems Under this environment you send a message to the developers that you are perfectly happy if all the cool stuff is hidden behind the gem store. While very little actually makes it’s way to the game.
Another game that tried this was Tera. I remember these very discussions In Tera’s forums.
It’s Interesting that people were saying then." Gw2 just came out, am leaving this to go play Gw2,. the cash shop centric game this has turned to, is Not something I will support." and people there …railed as many here are railing now.
They also said " They will be back, they always come back."
Where is Tera now?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Now since nothing in our Gem Shop is better gear, the comparison to D3 doesn’t hold. It’s a straight up cash shop with a proxy currency that’s no different than XBox points.
Just have to disagree with you there. You say that nothing in the Gem store is better gear.
What is the difference between Using cash to then buy better gear, and using cash to buy gems, that you then use to buy Gold, that you then use on the tp to buy better gear?
To me , selling Gold, is borderline Pay2win. And the saddest part is, the devs now have a conflict of interest.
And the difference in buying gold from an illicit RMT site is …? By your definition then every MMO that a RMT site supported is Pay 2 Win. The difference here is that ANet’s service gives you less gold for your dollar while letting players using the other side of the exchange to use gold to buy cash shop items.
When handling the economy, they can make changes that improve the economy, or…improve their Gem – gold conversions.
Maybe sometimes they MIGHT be the same exact thing. But what happens when improving the economy might lead to less gem sales? Or what happens when what might improve the economy, may also hurt Gem to gold conversions?
I just think that Anet introducing DR is less about " Inflation" which we already have, and more about giving players less ways of accruing Gold…unless it is accrued the way they want. People gaining things they do not want, and then sell on the TP, to be purchased by people that want or need it, that cannot obtain it reliably, and consistently in the game… Outside of buying it on the TP…. while they take a huge cut.
Why else would they Not have a Direct trade window, or add CoD to their Mail system? Other games have it why Not Anet? unless it’s to keep the economy centered on the tp?
What does a direct trade window buy you, assuming it still takes a cut. Limits you to buying or selling to players logged in on your own server rather than all servers including the EU (or NA if you are on the EU servers). How does that maximize availability or provide you a better chance to maximize your income or minimize your costs? Or are you just trying to avoid the gold sink? If not enough gold is being sinked relative to the amount injected they will just turn the reward knob down again.
What new DR have they added recently? Downgrading most of the champs in starter zones is not DR, it’s a straight up nerf.
Not sure why you decided to respond to me, since I never said Buying Gold from a third party was a good idea. Your response seems to indicate that i advocated it.
Secondly, I am not talking about NEW DR. I am talking about ANY DR.
Thirdly: I am not saying REPLACE the TP with a Trade Window. I am saying that many games, include a Trade Window so players can deal with one another directly. That it is an option with MANY games. Along with their versions of the TP, they allow players to completely avoid the TP by letting them trade directly. Here, Players cannot. Here, they MUST trade through the TP, where Anet takes a huge cut.
I noticed you Included a way for Anetr to also get a cut of any trades through a trade window. Why must Anet have their hand in these trades as well? Why must it get a cut?
Lastly You did Not mention CoD in mail. This is also a way that Playrers have always used to deal and trade with one another without going through the TP.
Why must the TP be the ONLY way that players can buy and sell from one another? Could it be the huge cut Anet takes from each and every trade?
There are other games that have all three ways for players to trade with one another. A TP, Trade windows without the parent company taking a cut, and mails with CoD without the company taking a cut. And they don’t have Inflation issues.
Why is it other companies can do it without having to monopolize , and tax every monetary interaction between players?
In almost every other MMO I have ever played…The TP or it’s equivalent is there, to conveninece the player. The Player is given other options to deal and trade. In THIS one… Not so much.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
How is me pocketing my gold from my tour. And then spending it on the trading post for stuff ruining the economy?
sounds like its pretty balanced to me.
spending on tp only remove 15% of the stuff u brough, there is still going to be a excess amount of 25.5g. and its not just u, u have to remember there are also tens of thousand other player doing the same tour.
The Six Forbid. What do you want Communism? If he puts In the time, and energy to do dungeons shouldn’t he be rewarded for it?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
i think u 2 didnt read it right..its not about haveing weapon swap…its about not having the chance to stack up bloodlust and then haveing 2 other sigils on the weapon u use the most. i agree with JJ….its annoying not to have the chance..but getting 3 sigils would also be unfair :/ to solve this problem is i think nearly impossible….
Unless elementalists were changed significantly lately, They can swap attunements, and the game treats it like a weapon swap.
So if you have " + 2 Might on weapon swap" On your staff for example…or even on one of your daggers…. when you swap attunements you will get + 2 might. Each time you switch attunements.
In other words as far as elementalists are concerned, this is an l2p issue.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.
Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.
If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——→ Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
If you could prove that dungeon running was indeed causing inflation then you would have a point.
But you can’t, because there have been studies of the inflation rate of GW2 already done and it is non-existent. There is no inflation in GW2. Removing dungeon rewards would put us on a path of deflation, which is just as bad as inflation.
Can you provide a Link to the studies?
I’m headed out now, I will try and dig it up later this afternoon. It was on the trading post forums a few months back. If you make a post over there I am sure someone can get you the link before I get home. If not i’ll try and find it later.
No no no, that’s Now How it works, I am not gonna go on a Hunt for your precious studies. YOU brought them up…YOU post the links.
I can almost read your next thread.." I can’t find it. But trust me."
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
There is nothing to fix because nothing is broken.
You can still get the same 1600 gems for $20 that you could when the game launched.
People are discussing the IN-Game economy.
Fact is that people will always get 1600 gems for $20. That is irrelevant, and you know it. The question is… How many gems to convert to how much Gold? How much can that gold buy within the game?
On another thread you simply said.. that studies have shown that there is no inflation in gw2. As much as i wish i could Just take your word…. common sense says anyone can say anything on the internet, and 90 % of statistics used are made up…. 65 % of people on the internet believe it.
So video or it dodn’t happen. Post the link to your " studies" , and No…Just saying " When the game launched 1600 gems = $20, and Now… 1600 gems = $20." doesn’t prove there is No inflation IN- Game
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
If you could prove that dungeon running was indeed causing inflation then you would have a point.
But you can’t, because there have been studies of the inflation rate of GW2 already done and it is non-existent. There is no inflation in GW2. Removing dungeon rewards would put us on a path of deflation, which is just as bad as inflation.
Can you provide a Link to the studies?
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
I am not an economy student. But to what extent does having things you mine, gather, and chop, that are for all intents and purposes unlimited, because if you have 50 people at one node…Instead of it being 1 node it’s 50 …contribute to inflation? The way i see it… 1 is " real" and 49 are created out of thin air.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.