Guild Wars 2

Behellagh.1468:

Now since nothing in our Gem Shop is better gear, the comparison to D3 doesn’t hold. It’s a straight up cash shop with a proxy currency that’s no different than XBox points.

Just have to disagree with you there. You say that nothing in the Gem store is better gear.

What is the difference between Using cash to then buy better gear, and using cash to buy gems, that you then use to buy Gold, that you then use on the tp to buy better gear?

To me , selling Gold, is borderline Pay2win. And the saddest part is, the devs now have a conflict of interest.

When handling the economy, they can make changes that improve the economy, or…improve their Gem – gold conversions.

Maybe sometimes they MIGHT be the same exact thing. But what happens when improving the economy might lead to less gem sales? Or what happens when what might improve the economy, may also hurt Gem to gold conversions?

I just think that Anet introducing DR is less about " Inflation" which we already have, and more about giving players less ways of accruing Gold…unless it is accrued the way they want. People gaining things they do not want, and then sell on the TP, to be purchased by people that want or need it, that cannot obtain it reliably, and consistently in the game… Outside of buying it on the TP…. while they take a huge cut.

Why else would they Not have a Direct trade window, or add CoD to their Mail system? Other games have it why Not Anet? unless it’s to keep the economy centered on the tp?

Aidan Savage.2078:

Xenon.4537:

- Grenth’s Balance
Elite Skill. If target foe has more Health than you, transfer half the difference from that foe to yourself and nearby allies (divided equally). Cooldown 210 sec.

No. You honestly have no idea just how broken this skill is capable of being. I mean, REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY no idea. You ever go fight Tequatl, THW, or any of the other “mega” bosses? That’s the last thing we need, bunch of necros sitting on 1-5% health popping this skill on bosses and eating away millions or tens of millions of hp in a single skill.

Sign me up…this would get me Playing My necro more :-)

Rage.9723:

End game content? Solo Arah path 2

self imposed limitations, Like tackling what is meant to be 5 person content, doesn’t let Anet off the hook.

AntiSaneity.3628:

Because you didn’t like it they shouldn’t talk about it? Two maps changed forever, story created, explored and being built on for season 2, and they should just act like it never happened?

Can you say asinine?

No,…But at the same time, it’s Not “Merryl Streep” worthy drama either.

Errant.1942:

You said my view of the game was distorted because I had a different experience than you had. Calling my view distorted (in my eyes) is a way of invalidating my opinion. You can disagree with this sentiment, but that’s why I said you discarded my opinion. So I don’t really think I put words in your mouth.

He did.

Just because a player has 2 boxes doesn’t mean the percentage chance of getting good drops is any better. It just means that he is rolling more dice. Which means they also gets More crap.

Just because someone two boxes, doesn’t mean their opinion is not valid. And unfortumately, the more someone focuses on " but you were two boxing and your experience is warped." what they are REALLY saying is.." you don’t get to give your opinion, because Most people do not two box." The fact is, a LOT of people two Boxed Guild Wars. Saying" you two boxed" is not saying that something rare was being done.

kitten dragon.1804:

This discussion got really weird if you only read the first page and then the last. However, in the off chance that someone of influence reads this I second the opinion that some of us players are still waiting for “end game”. I really, really enjoy GW2, every part of it is great with the exception of it’s dramatic departure from the trinity mechanics. I’m an old school DND fan, and I like my warriors to take a hit, my mages to be glass cannons and my priests to only care about healing you. It’s familiar and lets face it, it has replay-ability.

So please, if anyone who can make a difference happens to read through, or even if the community agrees. Show us a uniquely GW2 version of the trinity and the somewhat predictable/entertaining! content that accompanies it.

Only thing I can say about “The Holy Trinity” is. You bought the wrong game.

NO Holy Trinity was a Big part of it’s advertising and PR.

Coming to Gw2, and complaining about the lack of end game is like… Buying World of Warcracft and expecting to play all the way to 90 without paying a monthly.

Errant.1942:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yet I never saw any ‘unique’ weapon skins drop out of Eye dungeon chests. I saw them out of the Zaishen chest, but that required me to go farm keys. And they were terrible stats, so I kept them for looks. Also “farming Bogroots with four accounts” is not a standard, usual player. Not to mention the word “farming”, which assumes he probably got more junk than good stuff.

I’m very aware that what my friend did was far from the norm. But if you never saw a single weapon skin from the EotN dungeon chests, my guess would be you didn’t run them very often. I never got any decent skins with good stats as a drop either, but I didn’t mind as much, because I did the dungeons more for fun than for money. I wanted money, I’d run DoA. I saw a lot of people get nice drops though. If running with a full party of 8, at least once every 3-4 dungeon runs (worst case scenario here), I’d see one of the skins unique to the dungeon drop (not necessarily the expensive ones).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I ran it because it was one of the last challenges I hadn’t actually passed. I am glad I didn’t run it for the Ecto because I rarely saw it. Or “sweet drops”. Usually I just wound up storing trophies in case Nick wanted them.

Depends how you ran it. If you did it in speedclear teams, depending on what area you ran, you’d get quite some ecto’s. Pools, pits, plains, wastes, those 4 areas would drop a lot of ecto’s. If you ran vale/lab/mountain only, then yes, I’d understand you didn’t see much ecto. Or if you ran some balanced way team that cleared every area as a team, you wouldn’t see much ecto’s drop either, because it got shared over the whole party.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

All fine and good, but that rewarding note is only good for people who were good at running DoA and would allow people along they didn’t know. And, again, the rewards were mostly cosmetic (very nice looking, though) and the cash could be lucrative . . . but then, so could other options. As noted, platinum wasn’t exceptionally hard to earn, it ranged from “time consuming” to “you lucky son of a skritt”.

No, the 60-80k/run in HM was regardless of clearing time. If it’d be on an hourly basis, with back-to-back runs, it would be 120-160k/hour for experienced guilds, 80-106k/hour for mediocre guilds, and 72-96k/hour for bad guilds. So, it was available for anyone with the skill to clear the area. As for allowing people along, there wasn’t much to making a mesmer, getting it to the end of Nightfall, gear up appropriately, and applying to a DoA guild to learn the basics. If you wanted, you could even work your way up from the mediocre guilds to the pro’s.

I don’t get why people complain about the exclusiveness of some high-end guilds. If you don’t want to make the sacrifices they ask you to make in order to run with them, don’t expect to get the benefits of running with them.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Again, dual accounts isn’t something normal players generally do. But I did make profits on chest runs once my luck rose high enough for my Lockpick retention to be roughly 50+%.

Even with single account running, I’d still make money, I just did it with 2 accounts because I could open more chests that way.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s not really rose-colored glasses, correct. Really it’s more of a distorted lens since your experience isn’t quite on par with other players’ experiences. Especially if you still ‘boxed’ two accounts.

I could discard your opinion using the exact same logic. “Your opinion doesn’t count, because your experience was different from mine.” is not really a sound argument.

I agree with you. Seems his opinion is, if you two boxed then your opinion is not valid, since it either is not the same experience he had, or that of most players.

Here’s the thing. That is Like saying if I walk into an IHOP, and order the pancakes… but choose to eat them two at a time, and put meltewd butter in between like a sandwich… and then say " Nope.. don’t Like them" then " hey you don’t eat them the way us normal people do… your experience doesn’t match, so your opinion doesn’t count or counts for less."

Just because someone plays the game differently, doesn’t mean their opinion can be discounted. This is typical. " I don’t like your opinion therefore I’ll discount it, I need an excuse…" Two Boxing".

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

41344kittenelith.7360:

You could have summarized this wall of text with one sentence.

" I don’t agree with you opinion, so let me find an excuse to discount it…..ah here it is.. you two box."

Nah, but two-boxing is something the majority don’t do so. It also makes things much easier to handle. (I did it in EverQuest for a time – made things fantastically easier.) It’s also the lesser of two reasons I would find to discount your whole spiel.

The greater one? Your entire post about how good things were tended to focus on profit in platinum/gold. Adding a ‘fountain of gold’ hardcore players can tap is only going to make the TP go worse when trying to get desirable items off it. That’s just from having seen that sort of effect before in online games where trading is possible . . .

Anyway, feel free to keep trying to discount me. I’ve pulled my hardcore time in the past, the reward wasn’t worth it most times. When it was worth it, the goalposts would get moved in the next expansion with equipment power creep. (Gods EQ was bad at that.)

Nerelith.7360:

So ya… 4 years or so of Gw1… wasn’t even aware they HAD a cash shop… but m in gw2… the cash shop actually influences design decisions.

Of course it does. You can turn cash for Gems into Gems for Gold, so it has to influence decisions so Gold isn’t as high a gateway for all that much. Not to mention you can do it backwards with Gold for Gems, so most of the desirable objects on the Gem Store sit at less than 1000 Gems. And mentioning, once more, there’s not much in the Gem Store which is all that “awesome, must-have”.

There is Gold in the gem store.

Galen Grey.4709:

Nerelith.7360:

More Money for advertising, better graphics, a trully open world… will get more people to buy and lay the game. still…

Does Not mean Anet made the correct choices to provide a More fun experience.

This game is More of a cash cow for NCSoft than Guild Wars was..in THIS game…the player is directed more to the gem store.

Guild wars was monetized by selling Boxes and expansions, and I recently found out they also had a cash shop…. i found out after reading GW2, on GW2’s forums.

GW2, is Monetized heavilly by gem store purchases, and while one can wish that the reasons game design decisions were made to provide a better game, for some reason, in my opinion… they failed.

What they did come up with was a game that makes Money for anet left asnd right..the TP, and gem store are center stage, and the game is beginning to feel like a tacked on afterthought… something for players to do between gem store purchases.

I LOVE gw2’s gameplay… it’s economy, and gem store… that is something else entirely.

So wait, gw1 cash shop didnt bother you a single bit even though arguably I’d say if I had to pick up the “worst” cash shop I’d say Gw1 was worst because
1. it had content locked behind it (the bonus mission pack), Mercinary hero slots to provided you with power, skill unlock packs etc..
2. It still had the same things Gw2 has like cosmetic stuff , character expansion, storage expansion, pets etc…

So I am curious what exactly makes Gw2 cash shop so center stage when Gw1 didnt effect you so much in your own words you didnt even know it exists? Is it that in Gw2 you can own stuff in cash shop without using real money

Usual disclaimer, there is a reason why I put quotes around worst… I dont feel any of the cash shops are really truly bad. Sure I had to buy the bonus mission pack as I have to experience it all obviously but I was more then happy to pay for that.

I just dont understand how people feel Gw1 cash shop was so innocent its like it didnt even exist at all while Gw2 cash shop is like the essence of evil. They were not really that much different.

I think I said this In another thread. The reason Guild Wars cash shop did not bother me, was because I wasn’t aware of it, until I started playing Gw2. And found out from reading the forums in Gw2 , that Guild Wars had a cash shop.

So no… Guild Wars’ cash shop did not bug me one bit.

I was able to play through the three complete games, without ever seeing the cash shop, or being influenced by the cash shop.

The reason why Gw2’s cash shop bothers me is, that while the game gets VERY Little in terms of upgrades or fixes, every week, there is something new on the cash shop.

A lot of the sexy skins …cash shop…. weapon skins,….cash shop…

The game’s innate Gold farming is nerfed … so that people are Broke..then they remind people they can buy gems, and trade them for gold…On the cash shop.

a LOT of game content is monetized, and ability to repeatedly earn gold through farming in the Open world…. nerfed… but hey Gold is for sale for gems, and if you need gems… use the credit card.

So ya… 4 years or so of Gw1… wasn’t even aware they HAD a cash shop… but m in gw2… the cash shop actually influences design decisions.

winterchillz.2564:

You’re right, but I think you’d also agree that we both give a name to the community based only on a minority of the players. Argument is pointless, let’s stop hijacking the thread.

Thank you for proving my point.

It’s Not hijacking the thread when I respond to points you brought up that I happen to disagree with. it’s called having a lively discussion

Which goes to prove part of what i was saying. it USED to be that I could have a lively discussion…. and it was Just that, a discussion where we both respected ythe other person’s right to disagree.

So on topic.

Best: Graphics, gameplay.

Worst: Community.

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

I am not comparing it to GW1. But I do see some much better reward-system in some other games thats for sure. Like I said, the currency grind is just boring to me.

The reasons why the loot system is bad in this game as compared to others, to you anyway, is because the goal of the company is to make it so you can run pretty much anywhere and still get loot. It’s an experiential game. So you can get anything doing pretty much anything. That’s the ideal for the game.

The idea that you have to do X hard content to get better rewards is against the philosophy of the game over all. If you make something so rewarding that people have to do it, then the rest of the game gets ignored.

So those who play FOR rewards are unhappy.

People like me who enjoy rewards but don’t play for them, are happier. I don’t want to have to run content X to get what I want. I want a chance to get it anywhere.

If they make certain hard content more worth it, then people will feel they have to do that content. If they make it so that rewards across the board are raised, nothing with have value and everything will be inflated.

There really are no easy answers.

\

You contradict yourself. If there are players that do not care about rewards and do not play for rewards. The fact that there is an area with more challenging content and greater rewards would be irrelevant to those " experience only " players.

Since it is Not rewards that drives them, they are not being forced to do anything they do not wish to do. They would either do it for the experience, or NOT do it, because they do not wish the experience…. or have done it, and had the experience.

make up your mind. Either there are a Lot of players that ONLY play for experience, and then they can ignore " High reward areas." or they are people that run after rewards Like a skinner box laboratory rat.

which is it?

A negative interpretation might be that the “experience” only players want the entire game to be " experience only". And if there is an area that drops rewards, that rewards gameplay they do not like, somehow the fact that others that DO… have those rewards while they don’t….

I don’t Know, seems kind of entitled to me.

But I am sure that isn’t the reason.

I’m not contradicting myself. I’m simply explaining how human nature works. You don’t play ONLY for rewards and I don’t play ONLY for experience.

If they make something really awesome that I have to do X to get, and I want that thing, I’ll end up hating the game or not getting it. Because some rewards are nice. I don’t play FOR them but of course, I want a chance to get them. That’s the difference.

It’s why I enjoy this game as it is, and wouldn’t enjoy it if they made one type of content that much more rewarding.

Cue Music:

winterchillz.2564:

Nerelith.7360:

Do you mean the same community that would spend time Hurling insults at people that dared to take champions out of turn?

or if you asked a simple question about a trait would tell you to stop being lazy and google it?

I came here at release. And the community THEN was super-friendly, and helpful. The Megaserver. Now … the community is toxic, maybe because a Lot of the trolls from other servers are spending their time trolling the trolls from other servers.

There is NOT a day , that the map chant conversations do not remind me of barrens chat or LoIO chat. ( EverQuest Reference).

The irony is, I went to Barrens Just the other day…everyone was friendly, and helpful.

Yes, I do mean the same community and since the train is dead for a while now, I don’t see why you should dig in the past.

The trolls on every server will remain a minority, you can’t judge the whole community based on a few people.

I’ve been here for 2 months only and my friends list has nearly 40 people on it, yes, the community must be super toxic and deadly.

been here since release. When I first got here, the community was awesome. Since then, people have gotten downright nasty.

You have only been here 2 months you say. I am sure your experiences have been awesome. But you cannot say because your experiences are yaya terrific that everyone’s is also yaya terrific.

And just because you met some awesome people…that doesn’t mean that there are not some Horrible people in the community.

Just because you have not met them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I have also met some great people on Gw2, But since megaserver….. the dark and ugly have taken over map chat. If your experience is different, that simply means you’ve been lucky, that doesn’t mean my experience is not relevant.

winterchillz.2564:

I can’t understand why so many people are bashing the GW2 community saying it’s bad and all that. Looks like that you’ve actually spent so much time on here that you forgot how much worse the community is on other video games.

I came to GW2 from Dota 2 and CS:GO and the one thing that made me feel addicted to this game right on my second day around was the extremely friendly community around. And day after day I still meet friendly people or people who note that the community here is super friendly.

Maybe if you get off the General Discussions forums, where everyone pretty much only cries and complains, for a few days and get down on the game you might realize what an awesome community we have here.

Anyway, back on topic:

Best: GW2 in general, music, beauty of the game;
Worst: Traits system as it is at the moment.

Do you mean the same community that would spend time Hurling insults at people that dared to take champions out of turn?

or if you asked a simple question about a trait would tell you to stop being lazy and google it?

I came here at release. And the community THEN was super-friendly, and helpful. The Megaserver. Now … the community is toxic, maybe because a Lot of the trolls from other servers are spending their time trolling the trolls from other servers.

There is NOT a day , that the map chant conversations do not remind me of barrens chat or LoIO chat. ( EverQuest Reference).

The irony is, I went to Barrens Just the other day…everyone was friendly, and helpful.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

I am not comparing it to GW1. But I do see some much better reward-system in some other games thats for sure. Like I said, the currency grind is just boring to me.

The reasons why the loot system is bad in this game as compared to others, to you anyway, is because the goal of the company is to make it so you can run pretty much anywhere and still get loot. It’s an experiential game. So you can get anything doing pretty much anything. That’s the ideal for the game.

The idea that you have to do X hard content to get better rewards is against the philosophy of the game over all. If you make something so rewarding that people have to do it, then the rest of the game gets ignored.

So those who play FOR rewards are unhappy.

People like me who enjoy rewards but don’t play for them, are happier. I don’t want to have to run content X to get what I want. I want a chance to get it anywhere.

If they make certain hard content more worth it, then people will feel they have to do that content. If they make it so that rewards across the board are raised, nothing with have value and everything will be inflated.

There really are no easy answers.

\

You contradict yourself. If there are players that do not care about rewards and do not play for rewards. The fact that there is an area with more challenging content and greater rewards would be irrelevant to those " experience only " players.

Since it is Not rewards that drives them, they are not being forced to do anything they do not wish to do. They would either do it for the experience, or NOT do it, because they do not wish the experience…. or have done it, and had the experience.

make up your mind. Either there are a Lot of players that ONLY play for experience, and then they can ignore " High reward areas." or they are people that run after rewards Like a skinner box laboratory rat.

which is it?

A negative interpretation might be that the “experience” only players want the entire game to be " experience only". And if there is an area that drops rewards, that rewards gameplay they do not like, somehow the fact that others that DO… have those rewards while they don’t….

I don’t Know, seems kind of entitled to me.

But I am sure that isn’t the reason.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Errant.1942:

The drop chances of EotN dungeon weapons were actually pretty decent. I saw a lot of them drop. A friend of mine even got double Froggy drops at least 4 times, but then again, he farmed Bogroots with 4 accounts, while his buddy did the same, and they made stupendous amounts of money doing so. Upwards of 1000e/week.

Yet I never saw any ‘unique’ weapon skins drop out of Eye dungeon chests. I saw them out of the Zaishen chest, but that required me to go farm keys. And they were terrible stats, so I kept them for looks. Also “farming Bogroots with four accounts” is not a standard, usual player. Not to mention the word “farming”, which assumes he probably got more junk than good stuff.

As for UW and FoW requiring 1 platinum and kicking you out if you screwed up, it was something that was mainly meant to keep solo farmers at bay that would farm the first mobs in every instance and go back. Seriously though, 1 platinum wasn’t a lot of money, so paying it to enter FoW/UW wasn’t that big of a deal.

More annoying, early on, was the Favor requirement or Passage Scrolls. And yeah, making 1 Platinum was fairly simple once HM was introduced.

UW wasn’t very rewarding in the end, because of time taken/consumables and bad drops if you ran the wrong area. I knew people that usually lost money doing a UW run. They just kept doing it because they loved the area. They weren’t in it for the money.

I ran it because it was one of the last challenges I hadn’t actually passed. I am glad I didn’t run it for the Ecto because I rarely saw it. Or “sweet drops”. Usually I just wound up storing trophies in case Nick wanted them.

DoA was very rewarding in fact, and wasn’t an RNG slot machine. You needed a maximum of 4 full HM runs, and you would have a tormented weapon. Usually it was around 3 runs, because of drops, and 4 runs would even net you an additional 5 gemsets that you could sell if you wanted, which is 1/3 of another armbrace. We calculated once that a single DoA run would net you about 70 platinum on average per run, usually going upwards of 80-90k for the people that looted after the run.

All fine and good, but that rewarding note is only good for people who were good at running DoA and would allow people along they didn’t know. And, again, the rewards were mostly cosmetic (very nice looking, though) and the cash could be lucrative . . . but then, so could other options. As noted, platinum wasn’t exceptionally hard to earn, it ranged from “time consuming” to “you lucky son of a skritt”.

As for chest running being unrewarding, I actually made money doing dual/triple account chest runs. And it was pretty good money too, nothing compared to running DoA, but I didn’t care, since I just enjoyed chestrunning (20k+ chests over 2 accounts).

Again, dual accounts isn’t something normal players generally do. But I did make profits on chest runs once my luck rose high enough for my Lockpick retention to be roughly 50+%.

It’s really not rose-colored glasses, or at least not for me. I went back and played GW1 for a few months earlier this year due to being jaded from the Fractured patch. It was still fun to run said areas.

It’s not really rose-colored glasses, correct. Really it’s more of a distorted lens since your experience isn’t quite on par with other players’ experiences. Especially if you still ‘boxed’ two accounts.

You could have summarized this wall of text with one sentence.

" I don’t agree with you opinion, so let me find an excuse to discount it…..ah here it is.. you two box."

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nerelith.7360:

Balancing the game so drops are both rewarding and NOT Impossible to attain in a reasonable amount of time, is the reason they draw a check.

To be pedantic, that’s not the reason they draw a check. They draw a check because they’re actively developing and keeping the MMO we’re playing running. The first part is not a given for a company to do, even ones who make single-player games or other multi-player games.

Also, it wasn’t really ArenaNet’s strong suit in their previous creation either. (Cough, Gamer title, cough. . . )

Other game companies do it … why is it that we don’t expect it from Anet?

I honestly don’t think other game companies do it, or at least do it well for MMOs. Single player games? Sure. Some multi-player games? Possibly. MMOs? Haven’t found one which really did it ‘right’.

. . . not even MUDs.

Some of us expect more for our money I guess.

blakdoxa.7520:

People cried for this mess of a story?

I bet few could recall moments when their dams blew wide open, releasing a torrent of salty tears, over anything in the personal story.
Maybe when our BFF died but that’s only just one time…

We’ve all (meaning many) become digesters of poorly-crafted/articulated media…

If we show the purveyors of said poorly crafted/articulated media, that we are content with the drivel, I guess they will never rise above " good enough for them" Will they?

Why give us Shakespear…. or even “Friends” for that matter, if they can give us… " see spot run…. run spot run"?

Aleglast.6027:

Nerelith.7360:

Aleglast.6027:

Adry.7512:

STOP over-propagandizing “scarlet’s war”….please honestly. did anybody feel this “devastating war”?…..it went unnoticed to me….completely. please stop spreading this all over the place as if it was a big deal, i mean really, all your fans think season 1 was jsut average content and here you are “ohhhhhh looook let me make 3-5 posts about this”. ok season 1 was was a start to something better (WE HOPE)….but its nothing to brag about or announce repetitively. you did a whatever job, so move on and do better.

Um, ive been playing this game for a year since today. and it might just be a game, but i almost cried when saw lions arch destroyed and some of my favorite npcs dead or gone. Lol to say that it was devasting means you either dont play much or you are new. not saying you are bad or anything, its just that most people who play mmos invest alot of time in them and get attached to some of these things. All those times goofin’ round’ with guildies in LA and just doin stuff you do in LA, they gonna be missed.

I have been playing since Release. I remember Lion’s Arch before it was destroyed. and the destruction at first was just a Huge inconvenience. I did Not cry…I Just yawned.

To say that " scarlet’s war" was " devestating" is Hyperbole at best…. So a zone was changed, Big whoop…where are the new races, the new classes, the " new" permanent content? and don’t tell me a new merchant In an Old zone that sells some piece of crap for karma is the extent of " new permanent" content.

Im sorry i get into the game, ill try to be more shallow next time. games are for kids right? silly things, why would anyone actually care about them……

Strawman Argument, oh how I love theee. You never fail to make an appearance.

Beldin.5498:

Devata.6589:

Beldin.5498:

Wanderer.3248:

A R W E N.6895:

I Will repeat my question again. where is my high level end game rewarding content

I will add that i am not talking about wow raid like stuff (never played wow fyi, only played gw1 since its begining)

I will also add that i am not talking about a gear grind.

Just to make thing clear and to make people understand that what i am looking for is something instanced to do with other player that is harder than fractal or arah. Something that you have to practice over and over again for awesome rewards. Ever heard of DOA in gw1? (Thats where your tormented skin come from fyi)

It’d be hard for all of a week, but people would figure out how to do it, start farming it and then you’d be back to whining on the forums about how easy it is.

And once everyone was farming it and running around with the same rewards you’d be complaining how it’s not rewarding.

Yeah .. just look for example on the initial price of the Tequatl Mini and where it is now :
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/47846

Either drop-rates are really low, then nearly nobody plays the content like New Twighlight Arbor Path, and those Items are still expensive, or the things drop more often so everyone plays it and then prices go down, just like all the Champion Weapons.

So you think the drop-rates are different? I don’t know the drop-rates but I think (and it would make sense) that drop-rates are the same for those two cases. However many people are ‘grinding’ the same content for gold. Mainly Champions and World-bosses. That’s why in total still many people get the Tequatl mini to drop and so the TP overflows with the mini lowering the price. That dungeon path is not part of the content people farm a lot so the prices stay high even with similar drop rates. It really proof what I am saying if drop-rates are the same. In fact when you would higher the price so it becomes more obtainable for people the prices might still stay lower as the Tequatl mini simply because it does not get farmed that much.

All i wanted to say is, that the Twighlight Path in theory must be exactly what some people always want .. the challenge with high rewards. But .. since the reward drops not every now and then they don’t play that content.

But if now ANet would make the droprate higher everyone now plays that content suddenly and the market will be flooded with those items, so prices go down and suddenly its no longer “rewarding”.

In the end .. whatever they do .. its wrong.

It’s not reasonable to expect us to " settle" for " whatever the devs can come up with" because " whatever they do we yell at them for " or " that’s hard."

THEY draw a salary from this. THEY are professionals.

If they were Cousing George…. and he just showed us a game he developed working in his basement, I could understand letting him off the hook for this product.

We should demand more from them. Balancing the game so drops are both rewarding and NOT Impossible to attain in a reasonable amount of time, is the reason they draw a check.

Other game companies do it … why is it that we don’t expect it from Anet?

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

No I dont think the devs looked at it and decided it would be hard to implement I think they looked at it and decided it doesnt attract enough people because lets face it you could play Gw1 casually and enjoy FoW, UW and DoA, you needed some commitment to play said content. Where they wrong? Well numbers dont think so because player activity is much larger in Gw2 then it ever was in the original GW.

You really think the game sold better because they did not focus on these sort of elements? Well then you are plain wrong. GW1 was new game and then created a name for itself. However it was not a real open world and so less attractive to many people.

When GW2 came it had a big name and was a real MMO. They also made much more publicity for it. Basically it’s a bigger franchise that’s why it has more players. Not because of anything like what you suggest. That is even stuff people don’t know untill they play it.

How can you tell? Also how can Gw2 have a bigger name then Gw1 when thats where its name comes from? You could potentially argue now it has a bigger name but at launch?

In anycase we’re not talking about how many people bought gw2 compared to gw1, we’re talking about how many people play gw2 compared to gw1 . Obviously its not one factor and I never claimed it was any one factor anyway. Buy saying Anet made all the wrong choice when transitioning gw1 to gw2 is obviously not true because gw2 has been a lot more successful for them.

More Money for advertising, better graphics, a trully open world… will get more people to buy and lay the game. still…

Does Not mean Anet made the correct choices to provide a More fun experience.

This game is More of a cash cow for NCSoft than Guild Wars was..in THIS game…the player is directed more to the gem store.

Guild wars was monetized by selling Boxes and expansions, and I recently found out they also had a cash shop…. i found out after reading GW2, on GW2’s forums.

GW2, is Monetized heavilly by gem store purchases, and while one can wish that the reasons game design decisions were made to provide a better game, for some reason, in my opinion… they failed.

What they did come up with was a game that makes Money for anet left asnd right..the TP, and gem store are center stage, and the game is beginning to feel like a tacked on afterthought… something for players to do between gem store purchases.

I LOVE gw2’s gameplay… it’s economy, and gem store… that is something else entirely.

Best: The Classes, The graphics, The Lore, And the vistas.

Worst: The economy, the community, No addons, No Mounts.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nerelith.7360:

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage

That’s a matter of perspective. In mine, if Blizzard didn’t have it’s hands in my wallet every step of the way, I wouldn’t be allowed access to the game.

Nerelith.7360:

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but have you not been trashing GW2 since your enjoyment of it dropped off, while singing the praises of other games?

I have never TRASHED Gw2. Nor have I put down anyone that enjoys playing it. What I have done , is point out why…in my opinion, Gw2, is not as enjoyable for me as it used to be.

There is a difference between trashing a gamne, and providing constructiver criticism.

seems that anytime a fanboi trashes a " competing game " people rally around them, but someone says " well, I think WoW is good because of this , this, this and this…and Gw2 is weak In those areas.’ instead of it being seen for what it is… constructive criticism…the fanboiz come in to attack that individual.

So No…I have not been, nor have I ever TRASHED Gw2…. nore have I trashed anyone that plays Gw2. But I see this for what it is, the beginnings of the fanboiz brigade coming to the rescue of one of their own that in deed DID trash another game.

Sorry, I don’t agree that the comment you considered “trashing WoW” was anything other than his opinion was that WoW created a feeling of stagnancy, which is something that when paraphrased, you seem to feel about GW2.

I feel that this is over-sensitivity.

His tone and word choice about World of warcraft is more along the lines of trashing. I guess we need to agree to disagree

shrug It appears that there are others who feel your tone could be taken the same way. Perhaps it’s something you should consider as well.

That is another thing that we will have to agree to disagree on.

Which? Not considering your tone of discourse or disagreeing that people read you that way?

the opinion that my tone is trashing. it isn’t. If it is seen that way, then it’s oversensitivity on the part of others. that is the opinion, we will have to choose to disagree on. I don’t see myself as trashing, nor do i see that the tone I used should be seen that way, if it is..I think it says More about the insecurity of others.

But as I said… we maybe should Just agree to disagree and move on back to the subject of the topic.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nerelith.7360:

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage

That’s a matter of perspective. In mine, if Blizzard didn’t have it’s hands in my wallet every step of the way, I wouldn’t be allowed access to the game.

Nerelith.7360:

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but have you not been trashing GW2 since your enjoyment of it dropped off, while singing the praises of other games?

I have never TRASHED Gw2. Nor have I put down anyone that enjoys playing it. What I have done , is point out why…in my opinion, Gw2, is not as enjoyable for me as it used to be.

There is a difference between trashing a gamne, and providing constructiver criticism.

seems that anytime a fanboi trashes a " competing game " people rally around them, but someone says " well, I think WoW is good because of this , this, this and this…and Gw2 is weak In those areas.’ instead of it being seen for what it is… constructive criticism…the fanboiz come in to attack that individual.

So No…I have not been, nor have I ever TRASHED Gw2…. nore have I trashed anyone that plays Gw2. But I see this for what it is, the beginnings of the fanboiz brigade coming to the rescue of one of their own that in deed DID trash another game.

Sorry, I don’t agree that the comment you considered “trashing WoW” was anything other than his opinion was that WoW created a feeling of stagnancy, which is something that when paraphrased, you seem to feel about GW2.

I feel that this is over-sensitivity.

His tone and word choice about World of warcraft is more along the lines of trashing. I guess we need to agree to disagree

shrug It appears that there are others who feel your tone could be taken the same way. Perhaps it’s something you should consider as well.

That is another thing that we will have to agree to disagree on.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Nerelith.7360:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nerelith.7360:

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage

That’s a matter of perspective. In mine, if Blizzard didn’t have it’s hands in my wallet every step of the way, I wouldn’t be allowed access to the game.

Nerelith.7360:

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but have you not been trashing GW2 since your enjoyment of it dropped off, while singing the praises of other games?

I have never TRASHED Gw2. Nor have I put down anyone that enjoys playing it. What I have done , is point out why…in my opinion, Gw2, is not as enjoyable for me as it used to be.

There is a difference between trashing a gamne, and providing constructiver criticism.

seems that anytime a fanboi trashes a " competing game " people rally around them, but someone says " well, I think WoW is good because of this , this, this and this…and Gw2 is weak In those areas.’ instead of it being seen for what it is… constructive criticism…the fanboiz come in to attack that individual.

So No…I have not been, nor have I ever TRASHED Gw2…. nore have I trashed anyone that plays Gw2. But I see this for what it is, the beginnings of the fanboiz brigade coming to the rescue of one of their own that in deed DID trash another game.

Sorry, I don’t agree that the comment you considered “trashing WoW” was anything other than his opinion was that WoW created a feeling of stagnancy, which is something that when paraphrased, you seem to feel about GW2.

I feel that this is over-sensitivity.

His tone and word choice about World of warcraft is more along the lines of trashing. I guess we need to agree to disagree

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nerelith.7360:

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage

That’s a matter of perspective. In mine, if Blizzard didn’t have it’s hands in my wallet every step of the way, I wouldn’t be allowed access to the game.

Nerelith.7360:

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but have you not been trashing GW2 since your enjoyment of it dropped off, while singing the praises of other games?

I am correcting you, since you are wrong.

I have never TRASHED Gw2. Nor have I put down anyone that enjoys playing it. What I have done , is point out why…in my opinion, Gw2, is not as enjoyable for me as it used to be.

There is a difference between trashing a game, and providing constructive criticism.

Seems that anytime a fanboi trashes a " competing game " people rally around them, but someone says " well, I think WoW is good because of this , this, this and this…and Gw2 is weak In those areas.’ instead of it being seen for what it is… constructive criticism…the fanboiz come in to attack that individual.

So No…I have not been, nor have I ever TRASHED Gw2…. nor have I trashed anyone that plays Gw2. But I see this for what it is, the beginnings of the fanboiz brigade coming to the rescue of one of their own that in deed DID trash another game.

All I am saying is, people can and do play more than 1 game at a time. Just because someone finds that a competing game does things differently… and brings up those thinsg and says " maybe Gw2 can learn something from this game." doesn’t mean Gw2 is being trashed.

But fanboiz seem to see any criticism of gw2 as some form of personal attack, some kind of " hey she’s trashing our game."

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game.

This is about as far as anyone ever gets going back to WoW. You recently re-activate, play a few weeks maybe a few months if you really have some willpower, then realize why you stopped playing in the first place. I’ve been there, all of my friends have been there, practically everyone I know that has “gone back to WoW” has raved about how great it is going back, then 3 weeks later they’re all playing single player games or LoL and talk about the latest MMO that’s coming out that is going to be the next big thing.

Why is this the reaction of people here at GW2? EVERY time I happen to mention that i am playing WoW while monitoring the goings on here, they feel compelled tyo point out.,." Oh she won’t be there long" or are you the same person that said the exact same thing about me On another thread a few weeks ago? It is almost as if some players feel they need to reassure themselves that " WoW is not worth it for anyone. If a Player leaves Gw2 to return for WoW, it cannot last long!!!!..They WILL get bored….they WILL Return… or they will play some single player game…or they will play another MMO!!!!!"

why???

Well umm..it’s a few weeks later..and Umm..I’m still having a great time at WoW. See what people that are always saying " it won’t last long" fail to say is….

Games change… some games improve, and some games get worse.

While I may have come here FROM WoW, there was a reason. Now I went back… and that is also for a reason.

WoW wasn’t as good when I left it as it is now. It is better now than it was when I left.

GW2 WAS good when i started here…then it got worse in MY opinion, defenitely less enjoyable. What I enjoy about MMO’s is Not viable in gw2, it IS In WoW, so i went back.

FACT: I consider it a better deal to pay a $15 Monthly to play World of Warcraft than play THIS game for free.

THAT should be a warning.

Anyway, I continue monitoring because I enjoyed Guild Wars. I like what it did, fact is i also re-activated my account with Guild Wars. That should ALSO say something.

I do hope that Anet gets it’s head out of the sand…

After we are past Public Beta.

Pirlipat.2479:

Just a few thoughts from me. I think many posts in this thread focus to much on a theoretical learning. I personally think that it is way more important to teach people strategies how to solve problems. To exagerate it a bit: you dont need to know what a combo is, you have to know how to produce one and which is important in which situation.

That way learning should teach people how to do things how it is usefull and why it is good to use it. It should teach strategies. by encouraging someone to experiment with that strategy. But more important from that point on you should have to use that strategy from time to time to memorize it until it becomes a part of your problemsolving tools. And if this strategy is successfull it feels rewarding because it helps you to solve problems. Good tutorials shouldn’t funnel people into one way of gameplay but they should provide them a variety of tools to cope with the gameplay world.

I think tons of written tutorials don’t help to improve, even though they should be somewhere as a knowledge base.

I don’t Like help files. I believe that one should never " tell, but show." And that is what a tutorial is for.

Another issue, is, I played from 1 – 80 On a few of My Professions, and I never felt I NEEDED to use a combo or the mob or mobs would not be handled. I happened to know about CVombos because i knew they would be in game before I played it. Nothing in the game outside of Looking at the skill, and seeing " Combo:Field" or " Combo:Finisher " told me anything about it.

I went and found a website that explained How the different fields and finishers Interacted.

So you have a situation where NO player NEEDS to know about this, to get to 80, or handle any content on their way to 80.

and even if they needed it, NOTHING in the game explains it…or suggests anything about it.

I Just do Not understand how this is not seen as a failure in the game. Maybe it’s theGw2 brand? I Know if some No name generic MMO tried this, it would be panned all over for it’s " Lousy tutorial system" and " lazy developers".

Asgaeroth.6427:

Nerelith.7360:

Asgaeroth.6427:

I like where GW2 is in a lot of ways. It doesn’t feel like WoW Plus like so many other MMOs that just take that formula and try to spin it. It feels more like Ultima Online or Dark Age of Camelot, my MMO roots. There isn’t some nonstop stat inflating gear train to be on, or a constant parade of contrived bosses. When DAoC started to get really low on players I went over to WoW for awhile and raided tier 10 to tier 16. To me it never really felt like an MMORPG. It feels almost more like something along the lines of Candy Crush. Just give you this never ending chain of higher and higher stats to go for without ever actually making you more powerful, then charge you $15 a month to do it plus client and expansion fees. There just isn’t an enjoyable world there, everything is so static and dead. All the development focus is on instanced loot pinatas that barely anyone even seems to like. All the open world content is a 2 hour static quest chain that eventually unlocks a few repeatable fetch quests. GW2 scoffs at all of these concepts like the generation before WoW.

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage … I Like that what I craft has value to other players. I Like that it doesn’t cost me 11g to make a bag that then sells for 13g on the ah…if at all..since I might get undercut, and then suddenly..there is zero profit.

I Like that in THAT game, while there may be constant Upwardly upgrading gear dropping, the fact remains that before level cap, I don’t need to spend a single dime on gear. It drops off Mobs, or it is provided as a reward for quests.

Now. we can go back and forth about " My game is awesome, and wow sucks." from your end. But that seems childish to me.

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Which leads me to the LAST thing I appreciate about World of warcraft, that 2 years On GW2 taught me to appreciate.

It’s community.

PS I cut my teeth on EverQuest. Make of that what you will.

Not really specifically a directed bash on WoW, mainly using it as an example of where I feel MMOs have gone wrong in the last 10 years. When WoW came out I had already playing MMOs seriously for 5 years. WoW gained success and the original MMORPG model fell to the wayside for static questing and shiny instances. Dozens of big budget MMOs have tried to ride those coat tails and it’s created a feeling of stagnation. The best of GW2 to me is getting back to the roots. You don’t think EQ2 would have been a better game if Smed wasn’t watching Blizzard’s every move? :P

Why the hate? Just enjoy Gw2. The question was " the best and the worst about gw2." Not..

" Let’s bash WoW"

Galen Grey.4709:

Nerelith.7360:

Hmmm.. what a concept, a game that contains content Not simply for casuals, but for hard-core. The problem is…players will always take the path of least resistance.

Anet needs to make content that as a player enters higher levels demands that they use different skills than 1..1..1..dodge.

But there are 2 problems with this idea.

1. It will be hard for Anet, And too many players are fine with superficial, and shallow content, because they don’t want to demand more… because…

“The devs said it would be hard.”

2. It may chase away the uncommited casuals. A game should never be made that sees the uncommited casual as it’s target audience. These players will drop you when a new game comes out. They will drop you when a Lot of their friends leave for another game..they follow, because they are uncommited.

Who should this game… That dared to call itseelf Guild Wars 2. Have targeted?

The casuals that played Guild Wars… duh.

But Let us remember the reason they dumped MOST of the core experience of Guild wars.

" the devs thought about it, and then decided..it would be hard."

Content forces no one to simply use 1.1.1.1 dodge and nothing, people decide to that themselves no one else and part of the problem there is this game has no mob tagging. Its both a good thing and a bad thing. Its a good thing because it creates a good sense of community. If you see someone in trouble you help them, you dont even need to think about it. In other games its not so simple. An example I was give is from the game loong I used to play. This guy was nearly death hanging on to the last thread of life being chased by this boss who had most of his health still on. I engaged and got aggro from the boss, let him get away and recharge when he came back I started moving away to let him finish off the boss only he decided to kill me instead because he tought I was stealing his kill. Just think how different the player community is between these two games. How bad it is when someone who just saved you is considered an enemy just because everything is competitive.

the downside to that is you can “abuse” the system. Like you said people take the path of least resistance. Champions die really fast when you zerg them with 100+ people but what do you expect, they scale up to 10!

Well there are 2 issues with your statement, one is who says that casuals are uncommitted? Casuals like hardcore players look for certain aspects in a game and a game that satisfies those aspects I would imagine they’ll likely stick to it.

and Two who says hardcore players are more likely to commit then casuals? Just like casuals might jump ship when they find another casual game to suit their needs cant hardcores jump ship when another hardcore game comes ?

As for Gw vs Gw2 it all depends on what you enjoyed when playing Gw.. I loved the story, how alive the world felt and the flexibility to play my char the way I wanted. For me Gw2 improved on what I liked. Sure I enjoyed FoW, UW and DoA immensely as well and yes I would love something similar in Gw2 as well but I assure you if Gw was just about FoW, UW and DoA once you hit max level I would have dropped it as well because as challenging as the content was at the end of the day I just cant stick doing the same thing over and over again for years I just dont enjoy that kind of game.

No I dont think the devs looked at it and decided it would be hard to implement I think they looked at it and decided it doesnt attract enough people because lets face it you could play Gw1 casually and enjoy FoW, UW and DoA, you needed some commitment to play said content. Where they wrong? Well numbers dont think so because player activity is much larger in Gw2 then it ever was in the original GW.

you Misunderstood me. I am not saying casuals are uncommited. I am saying EXACTLY the opposite.

There are COMMITTED casuals…. and UNCOMMITTED casuals.

I did not say " All casuals are uncommitted. " I said " SOME casuals are Uncommitted, and centering your game around THOSE casuals is a mistake on anet’s part. THOSE casuals will shake Gw2 rather easilly over the next hello, kitty II release precisely because they ARE Uncommitted casuals."

I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

PS: Just because more people play gw2, than ever played Guild wars, doesn’t mean Gw2 has more depth… or is a better game.

In My opinion , all it means is more people bought and play it. The Number of people says nothing about How each game compares to the other. This is a Logical fallacy.." More people play it it must be better." Not always, and Not in this case.

More people visit McDonald’s than Peter Luger’s. But if you ask me where I wanna be taken on a date, it’s not to buy a Big Mac.

Aleglast.6027:

Adry.7512:

STOP over-propagandizing “scarlet’s war”….please honestly. did anybody feel this “devastating war”?…..it went unnoticed to me….completely. please stop spreading this all over the place as if it was a big deal, i mean really, all your fans think season 1 was jsut average content and here you are “ohhhhhh looook let me make 3-5 posts about this”. ok season 1 was was a start to something better (WE HOPE)….but its nothing to brag about or announce repetitively. you did a whatever job, so move on and do better.

Um, ive been playing this game for a year since today. and it might just be a game, but i almost cried when saw lions arch destroyed and some of my favorite npcs dead or gone. Lol to say that it was devasting means you either dont play much or you are new. not saying you are bad or anything, its just that most people who play mmos invest alot of time in them and get attached to some of these things. All those times goofin’ round’ with guildies in LA and just doin stuff you do in LA, they gonna be missed.

I have been playing since Release. I remember Lion’s Arch before it was destroyed. and the destruction at first was just a Huge inconvenience. I did Not cry…I Just yawned.

To say that " scarlet’s war" was " devestating" is Hyperbole at best…. So a zone was changed, Big whoop…where are the new races, the new classes, the " new" permanent content? and don’t tell me a new merchant In an Old zone that sells some piece of crap for karma is the extent of " new permanent" content.

projectcedric.6951:

Best part: a very large open world.

Worst part: a very large open world with no significance.

Example #1: Despite the megaserver, what reason do I have, as a player, to revisit areas like Dredgehaunt Cliffs when anything that I need from there I can buy from TP?

Example #2: What is the point of having to go around gathering materials/ingredients when you can buy the final product off TP for about the same amount of gold as the total of the materials, or even cheaper? There is no gold value at all equated to the process of creation/leveling the profession or the effort.

Example #3: In what universe of logic would a Tier 3 or Tier 5 material be much more expensive in TP than a Tier 6 material? This is currently the case with fabrics and leathers.

#3: in a world where most of the crafters are crafting with those materials I guess.

The biggest issue with crafting is, aside from bigger bags… Nothing anyone crafts really has any innate value. it’s either just something to do for xp..to do to take a break from levelling, while levelling by crafting…or levelling up thinking crafting might be a way to make money. til you realize that there is no money to be made.

Asgaeroth.6427:

I like where GW2 is in a lot of ways. It doesn’t feel like WoW Plus like so many other MMOs that just take that formula and try to spin it. It feels more like Ultima Online or Dark Age of Camelot, my MMO roots. There isn’t some nonstop stat inflating gear train to be on, or a constant parade of contrived bosses. When DAoC started to get really low on players I went over to WoW for awhile and raided tier 10 to tier 16. To me it never really felt like an MMORPG. It feels almost more like something along the lines of Candy Crush. Just give you this never ending chain of higher and higher stats to go for without ever actually making you more powerful, then charge you $15 a month to do it plus client and expansion fees. There just isn’t an enjoyable world there, everything is so static and dead. All the development focus is on instanced loot pinatas that barely anyone even seems to like. All the open world content is a 2 hour static quest chain that eventually unlocks a few repeatable fetch quests. GW2 scoffs at all of these concepts like the generation before WoW.

lol.. you really need to stop holding back, and tell us How you REALLY feel about World of Warcraft.

I recently re-activated my account, and am having a pleasant time playing the game. I enjoy that I can solo farm mats for my tradeskills, and don’t have Blizzard’s hands In My Pocket along each and every stage … I Like that what I craft has value to other players. I Like that it doesn’t cost me 11g to make a bag that then sells for 13g on the ah…if at all..since I might get undercut, and then suddenly..there is zero profit.

I Like that in THAT game, while there may be constant Upwardly upgrading gear dropping, the fact remains that before level cap, I don’t need to spend a single dime on gear. It drops off Mobs, or it is provided as a reward for quests.

Now. we can go back and forth about " My game is awesome, and wow sucks." from your end. But that seems childish to me.

You enjoy gw2 as it is, I enjoyed Gw2 as it used to be. Lately… I do not enjoy it as much, and the irony is… i have come to appreciate a Lot of things that WoW does well. At least well for me… things I enjoy are viable in WoW.

I can understand your enjoyment of Gw2. I can understand your desire to play it. What I fail to Understand is why you have to trash another game, or the people that play it. Especially since the free to play aspects of Gw2 are such, that a person can play BOTH.

Which leads me to the LAST thing I appreciate about World of warcraft, that 2 years On GW2 taught me to appreciate.

It’s community.

PS I cut my teeth on EverQuest. Make of that what you will.

ASP.8093:

Nerelith.7360:

As I seee it One of the problems Not Just with Gw2, but with MMO’s in general… especially those without a devoted following is… the desire to cater to the casual player.

It leads to a dumbing down of content, and a simplifying of game mechanics.

GW1 had “simplified” mechanics for an MMOG of its time and that’s part of what allowed it to actually throw interesting stuff at you. MMOGs that hide the relationships between elements and make you play Spreadsheet Wars to figure out what your stats actually do are just using obfuscation to create fake difficulty.

Whether it was simple can be debated, since it had hundreds of interchangeable skills, that were modified by player controlled traits. all without even looking at the effects of player purchased runes On armor.

So if that was simpler than games of it’;s time it was a lot more complex than gw2.

That says something.

Add sub-classes to the mix, and elite captures.. etc, and you are beginning to have a " simple ( according to you) game…with a LOT of depth."

The problem is…Gw2 lacks this depth as well.

And every time I ask why… the Gw2 fanboiz all repeat… " The devs looked into it, and dropped it because…. it would be hard."

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Daishi.6027:

If we had proper raids or 10 man content (hell even challenging 5 man content) that had skins and fun consumables as rewards NOT based on RNG (Although RNG can help a goal) This would fit and give people proper content.

I’d bite on a test-case where two different groups compose and run a dungeon-like instance from opposite ends to meet in the middle for the final fight. Vizunah Square was a relatively fun mission when the bugs didn’ crop up.

Seriously, that’d actually be interesting – X groups of 5 players queuing up or entering an area together to run separate paths (or paths which intersect then diverge later) and culminating in a rather impressive, large battle where multiple-group tactics can/must be used so the fight can be won.

Let the rewards be tokens traded for skins. Screw just getting handed Ascended-stat things, because then everyone and their sister would complain about how they’re now “forced” to do that event due to the reward being too good.

Tokens is yet another currency (so boring) so while nice to have as an extra there should also be some unique drops in there you would really want to go for.

There is a story about a Pudding recipe that on paper looks amazing. But when you bite into it tastes … meh. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Thile Dungeon Tokens sounds Like a good idea On paper… allowing players to run the dungeon Numerous times then deciding what to get with it from the dungeon merchants…. In practice… it failrs in my opinion.

RNG may be bad in some ways ( Mystic Slot machine)… But when it comes to dungons. Most of My thrill comes when I see a drop I can use… ( rng #1 lines up) anmd then I need to roll to see if I get it, or that other DPS gets it… ( RNG #2.)

For me… this feels Like " I heard this item was In that dungeon, and here it is!!! which of us gets it Jobe… I choose rock!"

As opposed to tokens, which make me feel Like I am clocking in, and clocking out… Like a job.

Kuldebar.1897:

GW2 is lacking in the feedback or “conveyance” department. I think one of the reasons is the UI.

By design, we only get so many skills, locked to weapon type, and also locked to a specific slots on the action bar.

I would more readily “know” my active skills a lot better if I could arrange them myself according to their purpose and use.

Yes, I do know what my abilities are, but they aren’t organized in a manner I would choose. And, yes, I use key binds but the placement of UI buttons do matter and help complete the feedback loop.

This is a subtle thing but the generic treatment of the UI in regards to abilities removes but one more facet of player familiarity with their abilities.

I know how you feel. I tend to put my Most often used attacks, and attacks that lack any special abilities to the left. And heals etc to the right. I would Put the elite sklill on the 1-5 area… unless it is a Pure utility, and leave the basic self heal on the #10.

it is how My mind works, and How i have always played.

N0ot being able to decide what goes in skills #1-#5 without learning to macro just… grrrrrr…. but that’s just a pet peeve.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

….

By default the game is easy, no doubt about that and its not a flaw its a design choice they made to be casual friendly. But beyond that people also play in a manner that trivializes it more but joining together and refusing to spread out that makes the issue that much worst.

All this being said I love a challenge as much as you or anyone else and although I understand why there arent more challenges because of their design choices (not because I accept sub-par content) I am hopeful S2 might include more peripheral challenging content since its one thing they specifically mentioned as a major request they heard loud and clear from a large part of the community. I am curious to see what they’ve come up with. 2 more weeks to go

you are actually mistaken in assuming that you can only design for casuals, or hardcores, good well designed systems work for both and appropriately give them something to do at all levels of play.
Basketball, playable by 5 year olds, all the way up to 60 year olds
Chess, learnable at 8, mastered for a lifetime

good game design does not choose casual or hardcore, is made for both. Now we are talking about hardcore in terms of skill here, (which doesnt really always map to time spent) And it really has to in order to last, because eventually if they keep playing, even the casuals become hardcore (skill wise) If they dont build for more depth, you will end up getting greater turnaround.

IE many players will come, enjoy the game, then leave when it offers nothing deeper. You can bring in new players by being casual, but eventually you will have used up your market.

This pattern seems to be anecdotally correct from my observation. Many many people have come, and gone.

The only way anet can keep people going without creating depth of play, is to keep creating new interesting stories, and places, In this respect both the casual and the hardcore could enjoy it. However, this would basically be like creating a hit TV show/comic book on your first attempt, its not really what they built themselves for, its unlikely they can do it, and probably not the best course of action to depend on that.

Best bet is for them to try to make a deep and compelling game, that you can keep getting better at playing, and have things to do as you progress in skill. They also have to design the reward system to lead people.

Hmmm.. what a concept, a game that contains content Not simply for casuals, but for hard-core. The problem is…players will always take the path of least resistance.

Anet needs to make content that as a player enters higher levels demands that they use different skills than 1..1..1..dodge.

But there are 2 problems with this idea.

1. It will be hard for Anet, And too many players are fine with superficial, and shallow content, because they don’t want to demand more… because…

“The devs said it would be hard.”

2. It may chase away the uncommited casuals. A game should never be made that sees the uncommited casual as it’s target audience. These players will drop you when a new game comes out. They will drop you when a Lot of their friends leave for another game..they follow, because they are uncommited.

Who should this game… That dared to call itseelf Guild Wars 2. Have targeted?

The casuals that played Guild Wars… duh.

But Let us remember the reason they dumped MOST of the core experience of Guild wars.

" the devs thought about it, and then decided..it would be hard."

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata I am starting to get the impression that this game was not meant for us. But for players that are perfectly content with buying everything at the Gem Store. Or Buying it at the TP, after grinding out the gold for it, or Bought the gems, to convert to gold for it.

In my opinion, doing the above makes me feel Like I am working a job.

~

The end result was a bag that sold On the TP for 13g. but that I needed to use a sigil that had a fixed cost of 10 to 11 g. I forget exactly how much. so pure profit? Is there any? This is why i stopped making bags.

When I play other games, I feel i am playing other games. When i play Gw2… I LOVE the mechanics of GAMEPLAY…. but the economy just makes me feel like Anet’s b****.

Well one of the main reason I did go for GW2 was because it was supposed to use the B2P model not F2P. that was great because I could then avoid exactly this sort of mechanics and thats one of the main reasons.. no I guess the main reason for my interest in GW2. Sadly the game is now more of a F2P game… as it focuses on cash-shop for income not on game-sales (as expansions are part of the game,, that also counts as game sales).

Also the hole idea of being focused on cosmetics.. The engineering profession we talked about before.. now thats the stuff I expect when you focus on cosmetics and casual game-play.

So is the game something for me or not.. It should be my (and your?) game. In the current state however it’s not the game it should have been.

Personally I also in other games never crafted for gold… well I did once find an item that was easy to make and sold good so then I started selling it but I was overall that was never a drive for me. I always crafted for myself. If I put something on a TP it was mainly because in many mmo’s it says “crafted by ..” and it was sort of a nice idea that somebody else is running around with your name. However yeah I did notice that usually there are some craft-able items that can make money. I haven’t seen that yet in GW2 but I am not sure.

Thee fact that you need to buy something in order to create something (when that item is expensive) is also something I dislike. It really tells that they want to make sure you did not get everything by farming the item.. you need to involve money with it.

I saw a Guy running around On a Mech-warrior Mount…. Similar to the asura elite…but VERY Steampunk ish…. Steampunk-esque?

I asked the guy " Oh wow, where did you get it? " was an engineer thing..turns out Not Only from engineer but also Not BoP.

When I used to play that game everything engineers made was BoP. or..only useable by engineers.

So I am making a new character and said " My alts need that."

Turns out they can also make a steampunk type helicopter. the thing runs on coal, tons of smoke polluting the place, I fell in Love at first sight.

THIS is what I think of when I think of cosmetics and casual.

Something totally useless in combat, but fun to ride around in.

but… the fact that gw2 is so TP/Gemstore centered. DOES feel like what people think about when they think.." Free2play/pay2win"

is it pay2win ? well as long as Gold sells in exchange for gems… it’s borderline….

This game needs More utterly useless in combat …but FUN items that can be obtained either from crafting…or from simply playing…

too much has Anet’s hands In our pockets. Starting with the salvage kits…

In other games you kill a mob, they drop cloth…

In THIS game unless you spend Money on a salvage kit, you cannot get cloth off mobs.

all the way through the creation proocess… nibble here, nibble there… Anet is nickle-and-diming us to death…. " Death by a Thousand cuts" kinda thing…

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

Example:

Crafted bags.

I cannot make a bag unless I either play the game for a LONG time, salvaging everything for cloth,… ( requires I buy a salvage kit either from an NPC vendor or a BLTP Salvage kit off the gem store.) more often than not, I need to buy the cloth on the TP. Where Anet gets a cut. ( they get a cut either way)

Ah yes, making a bag. In the real world all bag makers gather their own silk from worms, refine it into cloth, then into bolts, and THEN craft the bag using hand-crafted threading and hand-forged rings/buckles.

When you buy cloth on the TP, just imagine you are running a bag shop out of your garage and you are buying the materials from eBay/craigslist. That’s how pretty much everyone in the world does it.

Tyria is Not real life. You completely deflected from My Main issue.

The extent that Anet has their hands In EVERY step of the process. Turning any crafters into effective sweat shop workers.

I understand that there are players that don’t give a rat’s behind about crafting, aside from the xp gained from it.

For me…. Crafting is something I enjoy, I Like creating items that have potential value, aside from game mechanics. ( oooh 20 xp points per bolt of cloth.)

In another game I might mention, I know where to gather the cloth, I can make the items needed to make multi-slot bags, that I then can sell On the Auction House, sometimes for 150g each… usually they sell within 24 Hours of being put up.

So… Nice deflection. The issue is… every step of the creation process Anet is there, grabbing some of the profit.

Devata I am starting to get the impression that this game was not meant for us. But for players that are perfectly content with buying everything at the Gem Store. Or Buying it at the TP, after grinding out the gold for it, or Bought the gems, to convert to gold for it.

In my opinion, doing the above makes me feel Like I am working a job.

And it IS different than going out into the world… and finding a camp that drops the mats I need…that I then use in My tradeskills.

This game seems to have Anet sticking their hands In almost every aspect of the creation process for a Lot of items.

Example:

Crafted bags.

I cannot make a bag unless I either play the game for a LONG time, salvaging everything for cloth,… ( requires I buy a salvage kit either from an NPC vendor or a BLTP Salvage kit off the gem store.) more often than not, I need to buy the cloth on the TP. Where Anet gets a cut. ( they get a cut either way)

I then need to buy a special sigil, that may comprise 80 to 90 % of the cost of manufacture, and 70 to 85% of the gross after sale. Seems that crafting bags is basically working for Anet as some type of low paid independent contractor.

After the bag is crafted, it goes On the TP, because Anet refuses to put a CoD function in emails. They want me to either sell through the TP, or TRUST the recipient, or have them trust me. ( Not likely with strangers). (In almost EVERY GAME I ever played…. While there may be an Auction House to handle sales of items to other players… direct trade with other players is an Option. Either through a “trade window” or through “Mail with CoD”. This is the first I play where ALL trading is through Anet.)

Once On the TP, they get yet, another cut. All of this because the way the game is set up… they want as many players as possible… working for GOLD…. or buying Gems. then Using the Gold or gems, in the TP.

Each step of the way, taking a cut.

The end result was a bag that sold On the TP for 13g. but that I needed to use a sigil that had a fixed cost of 10 to 11 g. I forget exactly how much. so pure profit? Is there any? This is why i stopped making bags.

When I play other games, I feel i am playing other games. When i play Gw2… I LOVE the mechanics of GAMEPLAY…. but the economy just makes me feel like Anet’s b****.

Stars.2179:

Psichologas.1063:

Well I do know that some companies sue some websites for sharing their products for free on torrents, basically I don’t know if by law Anet could sue gold selling sites to get rid of them, it’s really easy to find those sites, other way would be adding gold sending limit, as most gold sellers send gold by mail. Indeed there is no way to 100% stop gold selling but are a lot of effective tools to reduce it.

They can try to sue those company but I guarantee you it will fail. Sharing products for free on torrents is a violation of copyright laws, which are penalized from 200$ to 15,000$ per product. However, botting and gold selling is a violation of EULA, which falls under contractual law. Anet will have to establish a harm done by violation of such contract which would be difficult. [See Blizzard vs Mdy case where Blizzard fails to sue a botting company for WoW.] Banning those violators is much more effective than suing them.

I may be wrong but basic review of the specifics of MDY Vs Blizzard shows that Blizzard did in fact sue a Botting company, .. and won.

I don’t understand your point.

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about armor until I am level 80 and until 80 I get enough drops to keep upgrading my amour along the way. Now how you describe it it’s more like a tool. Thats fine but it’s not fun and thats what I am looking at in a game, fun. Let me craft fun items. Let me be a musician (woops they put that option in the cash-shop) or let me be a toy-maker. A nice new toy every 5 levels to work towards. Meanwhile let me hunt down recipe’s in the world or let me hunt down a special Item I need to create one of those recipe’s. Now then I have fun crafting.

One of the funnest moments I had On another game was levelling up engineering,…. and having made Target Dummies ( they are a Box you drop that when mobs come at you, and near it, Out pops something that draws agro… Kind of Like a Portable mechanical agro magnet.)…

I drop it, and the Mob rushes at me, and I see this … thing made of wood on a spring… flat, but it is the cut out of a female..the painting on it, shows she has a huge cleavage.. and hans her hand In the air, and a smile on her face… the Motion seems to attract the mob over, …although How a Big breasted female sporting cleavage, and waving is attractive to a boar I have no clue…

But it was funny as hell. Every other character I play on that game takes engineering, and makes stacks of target dummies. STILL fun.

Yeah indeed, that is a fun way of crafting, and it is a fun way of leveling because every few crafting levels there is another nice item to work towards and while doing that you explore the world (looking for the needed materials) and so level up. Now that is what I consider fun. I do like something like engineering where you make such funny little tools. But there can be much more like crafts where you tame pets for rangers or as mini creating your own unique looking ones. All fun stuff to do in an MMO.

I agree that something similar would be awesome for gw2.

Another fun item was mechanical squirrels… Completely useless In combat. But it was a mini-pet you needed to:

1. Level up engineering high enough to craft it.
2. Mine for the needed materials.
3. Craft the tools to craft the tools to craft the tools to craft the parts, to craft the squirrel.

End result.. a mechanical squirrel that followed you around.

A Mini pet you did not buy off the cash shop but that you could acquire, purely from playing the game.

Part of the problem with crafting in this game, and in many modern games is..( I know I will be flamed by a Lot of players for this..) That levelling to cap is TOO fast.

I know i Lost a Lot of you… for those still with me…

If I get from level 10 to 20 asap, and can get to level 20 with level 10 gear, then level 15 gear is a waste of time, and resources to craft.

if it takes me a MONTH to get from level 10 to 20…a few Interesting things happen.

1. There is suddenly a demand for level 15 gear.
2. There is subsequently a need to farm for gold… or.. to farm for materials that sell for gold… that can then be applied to either craft level 15 gear for either self use…. or for sale.
3. The Player economy for crafted gear suddenly has value pre-cap.

I keep mentioning EverQuest because yes, it was my first MMO…. but levelling up in EQ, was Glacial compared to WoW or Gw2.

Players would go into the Karanas to kill leapords, because the leapords dropped pelts… they would sell the pets on the bazaar, or they would trade them with armorers…

The armorers would either BUY the pelts at the bazaar or trade them for finished goods.

And the reason this all worked was, there was a demand…for a level 25 chest piece.

Since there was a demand for it, there was value in crafting it, and value in buying it.

in Gw2, crafted items lack value. In EverQuest..Norrath had a GDP ranked number 30 when compared to real world countries.

Nothing succeeds Like success… but..I can Understand that today’s playerbase is not the same, players want things easier. Players want things with less effort, less time, less devotion… and then end up with a more boring, and shallow experience.

If you aren’t willing to work, the rewards will not be as rewarding. When something is just handed to you, there is less appreciation.

Rauderi.8706:

Dusty Moon.4382:

I will be blunt in my response because I have seen this in many other MMO’s. Players want the developer to nerf a profession because they are ‘assumed’ OP. Most times they are not. Rift had this issue with the Saboteur profession at the beginning and Trion listened to the whiney players and nerfed that profession into oblivion. It was unplayable and it was originally a glass cannon but people wanted a nerf rather than learn how to play against it.

Same thing in this game. You can drop both like a hot potato, but YOU have to know your own profession well. This is something that people are not talking about. You can have an OP profession but if you know how to play against it, you can take it down. Neither are OP but they need to be in melee range for spike damage – CC them and condi them into oblivion.

Just gonna leave this Extra Credits link here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for Skill

Are Warriors OP? Nope. But they are low skill / high reward as a class. And we need that in a game.
What we also need are high skill /higher reward classes. Classes that perform better but survive less. Those classes reward a skilled player, but not so much in a way that utterly dominates. (Well, usually. I tip my hat to the Engi that trucked me in WvW months ago.)

I think Extra Credits should be mandatory viewing for gamers. Puts a Lot of info in perspective.

And yes… Balancing for skill may be hard. But it seems that a lot of players seem to be willing to excuse the devs for not doing hard things.

A lot of the time I hear." the devs said they wanted to put that in, and ya, would have been awesome fun for us..but they decided to leave it out… because it would be hard."

…

The Problem with Gw2 is… it asks so little of it’s players before level 80, and dungeions, that players feel NO need to learn anything other than….1…1…1…1..w..w..w…dodge….dodge.

Players need to be presented with Mobs that will Pound their skull in for that strategy IN the open world, by level 15 latest. By then they have full weapons Unlocked, and a few utility skills to use.

As long as people can faceroll Open world mobs… they will feel no reason to learn.

Water flows downstream and takes the path of least resistance. Most players are the same. If they do Not need to learn how to use combos…. they won’t.

The dev needs to make then NEED to learn more than auto-attack 1. The issue seems to be this would chase away the UNDEVOTED casuals.

Beldin.5498:

Nerelith.7360:

I think you are completely misunderstanding me. I Like to farm for the drops I need to level up my profession skills…Just as ONE example.

I Like knowing " Mobs A, B and C…In area X… drop ancient bone, I need ancient bone to make Item Y." And go there, and spend a few Hours Just… avoiding patrols, as I solo farm for ancient bones to level up My skills yes… but also, for the sheer enjoyment of managing the camp alone.

It is tied together. It is Not Just " the pure enjoyment of soloing the camp"…. it’s also the REWARD, of getting the ancient Bones to drop….

It’s NOT JUST Not being able to gold farm… yes that is also an issue for me, at least not being able to do so consistently, and repeatedly.

Diminishing Returns is chasing me off this game.

I wonder when people will finally notice that DR does not exist on crafting mats.

I have farmed many many hours Arctodus in Frostgorge, and even noticed how many T6 mats i got every 30 minutes, and even after 10 hours the drops were more or less the same.

DR only affects drops of weapons, armor and this kind of crap that in the end is not that important if you farm for T6 mats.

The the drop rate on ancient Bone is ridiculously low. The first Hour I got 10… the second….2… the 3rd … zero… the 4th ….1….

I needed over 100…

…

Devata.6589:

Sages.3496:

Nerelith.7360:

Sages.3496:

if i am to be honest here, None of this even matter’s anymore. Anet doing these updates is a good thing. Nerfing the train allowed for newer player’s to enjoy themselves out in queens dale without being kittened at constantly by people in the train if they killed a champ. so im happy to see Anet finally stepping up to do something like this HUGE PROPS TO THEM FOR IT! also there are alot of way’s to make gold still, using the trading post to your advantage is a good way, and doing dungeons is also another one. The changes to the dungeon’s like the spider in AC spreading out all her aoe’s even if stacked makes it so you have to fight her the way anet originally intended, once again. Anet did a great job in finally fixing the exploit’s of others. so all this kittening and complaining, im personally laughing at considering this update changed alot for the better, all you people do is find something to complain about every patch instead of playing the game.

Maybe you should read the entire thread next time?

MY issue is Not that earning Gold is hard. MY issue is, I cannot camp for the materials I wish to acquire to level up My trade skills, Unless I want to farm for gold, and spend the gold at the TP, to BUY the components I need… for My tradeskills.

I understand that for many of the players here, that are content with the state of the game…the situation is exactly the same.

As I explained In a post above. In terms of immersion, I feel More connected to a world in which I can find a camp of mobs that drop what i want..I stake them out, I avoid wandering patrols…I solo the camp..to farm for the parts I need. THIS feels Like " Playing the game my way." as Anet’s manifesto assured I would be able to do.

Me..going into a dungeon, to then grind out gold… to then use On the tp, to buy the components I need… may be an efficient way for people that like dungeons, or even for people willing to accept Anet’s complete abandonment of their manifesto just to " get along" .." hey, Anet said it was hard, let’s feel bad for the devs"

As far as I am concerned…I can “play the game my way” here. or … I can play another game my way… while monitoring the forums.

So I Monitor the forums.

If you dislike reading my posts, you can ignore them, won’t hurt my feelings any.

PS: My complaint was never that the QD train as gone. I am happy it’s gone a Lot of toxicity was associated with that train that new players did not need to be exposed to.

My complaint is Mostly about Diminishing Returns.

Another complaint to add to the ever growing pile of them that i realy dont care about, if you want material’s so bad dont rely on the train’s anymore or events. actualy go farm them like the rest of us as you are nothing special. the reality is, GW2 is what the players make it by buying it and not paying for gem’s all that much. but i will continue to enjoy every aspect of the game until there is nothing left to do.

The point was that (some) people want to farm the mats them-self but that that is not possible for many mats (same for many other items).

And the game is what it is more likely what it is because people DO spend money on gems. That is the whole problem. That helps the focus on the cash-shop what is the reason for most of these problems (like ’ rewards’ in the cash-shop and the gold-grind). Buying gems is what helped to destroy this game, it does not help to improve it. I have no problem paying money. It’s a B2P game so let me buy the game so release expansions. No stupid cash-shop. If I liked a cash-shop to be involved so much I would I would play one of the many F2P games out there.

I have stopped buying gems completely, as i saw more and more of the game becoming more TP centered, and Monetized.

I refuse to put another dollar into Gw2 until they release an expansion.

I also refuse to Play any NCSoft game, so Wildstar is also gonna get a pass from me.

Galen Grey.4709:

Nerelith.7360:

About the new classes and skills. There is an adage in Movie making that if nothing has happened In the first reel of a Movie… chances are nothing is gonna happen in the rest. if it was gonna happen, chances are either it would have happened by then, or the groundwork will have been laid for it by then.

people keep acting as if Gw2 were a new release. We cannot expect more from the devs, than what they have offered… game is going through growing pains…etc….

I think 2 years post-release is time to stop cutting the devs slack, and start asking.." why do you seem to lack a consistent direction?"

People are growing restless, new games are being released, some people are leaving for those new games, others are going back to old games… and… some of them don’t come back. The Longer the game seems to be stagnant….. as this game seems… the less likely people will hang around patiently for the game to outgrow it’s prolonged extended pay-to-Beta test phase.

That may be true in movie making but when has that been true in MMOs? I dont usually like to compare with other games but well no choice here. Take WoW for example. When did they add a new class to the game ? if you consider the death knight fitting the bill (they called it a hero class ) then over 4 years from release. If we go with the classic meaning of a class then not before 8 years from release. Did the fact WoW never introduced a class in its first 2 years end up meaning it never would? No! MMOs are continuously updated and new stuff is released all the time, its not just improvements of what was released in the first 2 years of that MMO.

as for the 2 years being more then enough time I respectfully disagree. Plenty of MMO take over 2 years to release major content updates (expansions) and thats without release new content every 2 weeks!

I am sorry but I dont subscribe to your definition of stagnant. Stagnant to me means never changes, always the same. Gw2 was far from that. It was one of the few MMOs that managed to keep me engaged when I got to max level. There was always something new to play around the corner how can that be considered stagnant! is it new classes that make a game fun or its content?

new content, and change is not what makes a game NOT stagnant. If the changes are not good…. if the content doesn’t engage….then it ca seem stagnant even if things change.

I have been playing since release. This game appears to be going through a Lot of whirly-gig motion, but that does Not mean it is healthy.

In my opinion, the game is monetizing more and more, nerfing open world Gold and component farming more and more, putting stuff On the gem store more and more.

Those changes in my opinion, are not good ones. Clean water, can change to poluted water, and yes, maybe it’s Not stagnant by defenition, but I still wouldn’t drink it.

Lyralei.5920:

Conveyance is important.

Megaman did it so well that you didn’t need a tutorial level because the entire thing was integrated so well into the first level that you didn’t even know it was a tutorial.

Its something that’s sorely lacking in GW2 and sadly many other games today. It is not so much the knowledge that’s critical but rather the delivery of the knowledge that makes or breaks the game.

In the olden days of MMO’s it was called " Newbie island"

phys.7689:

Harper.4173:

I could have sworn I posted this before. Something must have gone wrong.

OP – what I believe is that you can’t really fix bad players because they won’t put in the time and effort to get good.
How do you fix the " it’s just a game man, doesn’t matter if I’m good or not, I play it for the lulz" mentality?

You are far underestimating the human ability. The key to what he is saying here, is many people just have no idea at all whats going on.
Is a combo feild really hard? no its not, however learning about a combo field, isnt something that would easily happen in game.
most finishers are hidden information, or have no tells
some fields have poor tells
much of what they do isnt clearly represented.

point is, you are right many people arent going to go out of their way to learn, thats why you teach them without making them go out of their way. Or you make it so that they must learn in order to succeed.
FFXI had like 2 million players? something like that, you couldnt get past like level 20 without learning how to play at a level that is higher than is required to play GW2 level 70 content. I will say that FFXI would probably now be placed in the hardcore game category, but i didnt think so at the time.

point is,
people would play at least somewhat better if the game was A) clearer oractually taught them game mechanics through play. Wildstar does a very good job of both. My guess is the same exact player will be much better at playing wildstar at cap than a GW2 player at cap.

I do agree with you. So I Post this….

Because Extra Credits is Epic at explaining stuff…

http://extra-credits.net/episodes/tutorials-101/

phys.7689:

hannah mee.7925:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Players are left on their own, and if they aren’t theorycrafters like the top 5% of us, they aren’t going to know squat about how to play the game.

I stopped reading right here and I will not read further because this sentence alone makes me think the rest of the OP is going to be bad.

Amended statement:
Players are left on their own, and if they aren’t theorycrafters like the top 5% of us, they aren’t going to be as skilled as the top 5% of us.

This is going to blow…your…freakin…mind…

But the game’s easy. People don’t need to be “Top Ten” and theorycrafters to do the content because the content is that menial. Much like other games, the challenge comes from self-deprivation and personal goal setting. I’ve played a gratuitous amount of games (granted I’ve only touched three MMOs in my entire life, but I digress) and in every single game I can tell you there’s a challenge that emerges from personal handicaps.

What you think is “people knowing how to play the game” is, in fact, an outline of the learning curve – a phenomenon that exists far outside of just Guild Wars 2. As far as most of those examples go, they seem to just be shy of not understanding a certain boon or mechanic, which happens a lot when people are new or they are visually limited by stacking and having a narrow field of vision.

A classic example I’ve always used is the game of BioShock 2. I ran around in Free-for-All multiplayer mode with Slugger and often went 20:0. That didn’t mean I knew any more about the game than other players, it just meant I was better at Sluggering than them and I went further up the learning curve.

Against what some people like to believe, some people really can’t progress up the learning curve because they are incapable. It only seems to echo loudly throughout GW2 though…I guess because the forums on the website allow people to be a bit more vocal.

you should have read the rest, although it was long, i think it wasnt super boring.

Basically a lot of what he is saying is accurate.
yes the game is easy, and they had to set it this way because they didnt teach people how to play the game. Better they cruise through everything than they die repeatedly. But if they trained people how to play better, they would play better.

And its not all sluggering, there are somethings that are just knowledge based. Like how to do blast finishers.

Gw2 really suffers from lack of clarity, and a lot of this came after the game came out, they have messed with a great amount of numbers/aoes special properties, without adding any tells.

Basically everything he says is right, however correcting it would probably take them forever.

I would say the priority would be to create clear tells for whats going on.
They also (its too late now) should have probably used the low level trait system as a teaching tool.

oh wells.

When will we leave Open Beta then?