Guild Wars 2

Stormdancer.4972:

“To Those Who Have Quit This Game” … why are you still on the forums, reading posts like this?

To those who hate reading replies from those that quit the game, on a thread that is addressed " To those who have quit the game."

Why are you reading it?

My opinion is… Anet is afraid to give players any skill that matters that is not damage based. They don’t like Conditions, or Classes that are based on them.

On Guild Wars Necromancer was FUN to play.

They also seem to hate pet management classes. Look at Ranger, and Minionmancer.

They hate the idea that players can go out in the open world and gold farm, if you want to acquire Gold….go in a dungeon.

One gets the impression they really wanted to make a 3rd person shooting dungeon delver, and NCSoft said " Guild wars fan want a Guild wars 2."

So Anet said.." How about we make it anyway..Ok, change a few names, Give it a tyrian skin… and call it Guild wars 2?" " But Third person shooting dungeon delvers don’t have necromancers. " " Then we give them Necromancers, and make sure they aren’t as effective." " Sounds good. "

It really does feel to me that tyria is Just a skin they slapped Onto the game they REALLY wanted to make…but NCSoft said." make it look Like Guild Wars."

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

You are right. I am playing it now. Gw2 isn’t as good. Jus’ sayin.

thaooo.5320:

Nerelith.7360:

thaooo.5320:

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Sorry I’ll explain my words.

I picked an activity that some people like doing, that is also easy to do in terms of skill required, and is of low challenge, and put a decent price tag on it.

I think this topic was originally about “ANet removing money making”, which was mainly referring to champion trains.

And when you said “some people don’t like dungeons, they should be able to make money playing how they want to”, I thought you were referring to the champ train, which is super easy, requires no skill, is not challenging, etc, but made a heap of money.

So I came up with an extreme example of “playing how I want” to get good money.

But back on the topic of this thread:
The rewards structure in any MMO should be based off difficulty. The more difficult something is to do, the better it should reward players. Simple things should not be the most rewarding.

I never liked the Champion Train. It rewards players disproportionately to effort , skill or time Invested.

I was talking more about finding an area with a large spawn.. managing agro… pulling judiciously… running the risk of an over-pull, or pulling when wandering patrols just happened to walk up to you… How to avoid or deal with the accompanying snafu….

This deserves to have some consistent, repeatable gold accrue. This isn’t …..w..w…w…dodge…1,1,1,1,1. On the Champion train yes, we agree.

But as I said…. Why do I have to go into a dungeon for reliable gold acquisition? Isn’t that Anet making me play the game their way??

Whatever happened to their manifesto? The reason I Bought the game before Open beta?

Try a Monk…….

thaooo.5320:

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

Should people earn 10g/hour out of thin air for role playing in Divinity’s Reach?

There is a difference between standing in a tavern pretending to get drunk, and whatever it is roleplayers do…that causes Nothing other than words being typed..In sometimes very bad archaic english, and playing in the open world… doing events..taking on champions,…. Btw, i was against the champion trains in QD..so that isn’t about the champ train.

If what you do is stand around and type…. because you like roleplaying that is Not " Playing" that is typing. And all the " but this is How i like to Play"…. doesn’t make it Playing.

So saying " this is how i like to play" does Not apply to roleplaying.

Adry.7512:

i am not to farm, but yesterday i had 49silver….i did the easy lvl55 dungeon about 4times and had 4gold by the end of it……what do u people want? i mean seriously? LMAO

Some people do not like dungeons. Some people Like Playing " any way they want." which was part of the gw2 manifesto.

If for these people to earn a lot more gold means going into dungeons, they are not Playing " anyway they want."

Gw2 seems to have turned it’s back On it’s manifesto.

MithranArkanere.8957:

As I always say:

“You will be back. They always come back”.

It’s just a matter of time. Like in GW1, some things get fixed, new things gets added, and if you have to pay to see any new content, you will only have to pay ONCE.

That’s how GW is. You never really leave. At most, you take a long break.

This type of Arrogane was percieved in another MMO that shall remain nameless because it seems to be Like waving a red cape before the eyes of a Bull. Let’s Just say in MY personal experience….

THAT game is much better than this one. People DO go back to THAT game. But Gw2 is Not the game that also.." everyone will always come back..they always come back."

THAT type of arrogance is not appropriate for gw2. And..it chases some players away.

But keep dreaming that " they always come back." Tera thought that…where is it now?

Imagine Gw2, can be in the same place… and rethink the " they always come back" type of arrogance.

Test.8734:

tigirius.9014:

I too find it amusing how somehow farmers have been made to be the badguys

Because THIS…

tigirius.9014:

it costs thousands of gold to buy a single legendary or 500 gold for a skin

…Is the FARMERS’ fault. The farmers’ and the TP PLAYERS. Without EITHER of those, NO ONE would have THOUSANDS of gold, ergo NOTHING would be so EXPENSIVE.

If GW2 had NO farmers, the game would be MUCH, MUCH better for everyone ELSE.

If GW2 had no farmers, it would lose a large sefment of the economy. In an MMORPG, when EVERY MMORPG that ever came before understood and accepted the presence and importance of Farmers.

Gw2 gets an idea…. " Eliminate Gold farmers." and while it is new… qnd experimental, it is not the Holy Grail, or Holy Gospel to be worshipped as if it came from the Mouth of MMO Gods. it was something tried. Results are mixed, and opinions are strong. That doesn’t make it something to accept fully… if people feel it’s a wrong move, we can say so…

Adry.7512:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Yes, it is pretty absurd to stop doing something you don’t like. Now go drink your prune juice.

pointless and irrelevant comment. if they stopped liking the game and want to leave, that is fine idc. i just happen to think some of the reasons are really absurd. that is all =/.

It would be more conducive to a worthwhile debate, if people would refrain from personal attacks. calling someone else’s opinions or reasons for leaving the game absurd, is a personal attack, and… against forum rules.

Aside from that, it is always best to engage the poiints made, instead of attacking people that disagree with you. It will lead to education on both parts. You wanted to TELL something to players that left. it seems you do not wish to engage in a discussion, you simply want to talk AT people as to why they should return.

Here’s the thing… These kinds of threads are intended to be for a healthy Interplay of ideas.

Everyone has opinions. Those are personal observations, the personal nature of them means, that to call them absurd, is to call the person HOLDING them… equally absurd.

There are personal reasons why people have paused, or completely quit Gw2. Those are also equally personal. You may not share them, but that also does not make them absurd.

BlueZone.4236:

Algreg.3629:

Azhure.1857:

Algreg.3629:

a) rewards: yeah, I know, just play for the fun of it. Thing is, noone plays computer games like that.

I do. Please don’t speak for me.

sure, isolate a single vulnerable line out of my post and ignore the context. Whatever works for you. Good for you.

Whoa now, let the poster speak for himself/herself:

Azhure.1857:

I’ve tampered with farming keys off and on. Its extremely time consuming.

He IS the Poster, and he IS Speaking for himself.

Azhure.1857:

Algreg.3629:

a) rewards: yeah, I know, just play for the fun of it. Thing is, noone plays computer games like that.

I do. Please don’t speak for me.

I don’t.. he speaks for me.

hannah mee.7925:

They’re definitely getting closer. The problem is they keep getting closer and yet are so slow about rectifying problems. The epitome of ANet’s responses to the game are reflected in the end of WvW Season 2. There has been five business days since the season ended, three business days since the Battle Historian started “offering” rewards and yet we haven’t seen anything come of this. Some people are still missing their claim tickets and the Battle Historian is somewhat useless.

Really, that kind of neglect on something that is seemingly so small (even if it’s not a realistically small matter, they have experts and teams that should be working on stuff) should be unacceptable. Sadly, most criticism from customers is met with fanboyism and ANet devs deleting posts because “they aren’t constructive” or some other nonsense, as if costumers reflecting their knowledge about work ethic from another job field is hate bashing and berating.

I find it hard to believe that the people that made Guild Wars made this game.
How does a developer that made Guild Wars on weaker computers, that had 100’s of skills at least 12 classes… Mercenaries,… Heroes,… Elite Bosses that had their OWN skills. Not Just a HUGE health pool, and 4 or 5 One shot Kill attacks… with intelligent AI…. Have anything in common with GW2 ? ( I refuse to call itn Guild Wars anything).

I really feel Like they put a Tyrian Skin on some other game.

Wizards of the Coast Can balance 1000 Cards for magic:The Gathering… and… Anet cannot balance 8 classes ?

Thereon.3495:

A lot of people have mentioned quitting on these forums but please define quitting!

I dont consider myself to have quit. I still log in daily but for all of ten minutes to do the daily craft and daily home node gather, I join the guild for about an hour over the weekend for the guild missions and im usually around for the first 1-2 days of the LS.

I dont feel anything for the game, I hate the direction ANET are taking it in, I think its mindless and one-dimentional and hasnt achieved anywhere near its potential and never will. But its free to log in and play so I exercise that right. I wont be giving any financial help to ANET until major changes are made to the AI, the reward structure and a huge improvement in immersion. But im still logging in.

Why bother I hear you ask? Why not just quit? Well ive been waiting 12+ months for the game to live up to its potential so I guess you could say im still hoping.

About supporting Anet with our dollars.. I only have one thing to say.

I do not understand where this idea comes from. Yes, there are players that LOVE the game as is. I can understand that they support the game with gem purchases etc… they Love the game, and vote with their dollars.

But there is a group out there, that are vocal ablut their dissatisfaction, and yet will say things Like.." I spend Money, because Anet needs it."

…

Ok, so many are NOT happy with the game direction, or Anet’s decisions, but they continue to spend Money, at the gem store out of some Mistaken belief that it is THEIR responsibility to support Anet, as they flounder, hoping Anet discovers the right direction, and turns around and heads there?

Last time I checked the ONLY person responsible for seeing Anet through the self made Morass, is Anet.

And the intelligent thing to do, when an otherwise master Chef, working in a 5 star restaurant, serves you a crap sandwich is to stop spending money there, til you hear that he or she is back on the ball… and putting out dishes worthy of our money.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Purple Miku.7032:

…if the target audience is those that have quit this game, do you really anticipate for them to likely see this thread?

MANY who have quit the game still actively monitor these threads and some even make comments/replies, so, they will see this thread and more.

Guild Wars meant a LOT to a Lot of people, me included. Most of us STILL have high hopes for Guild wars 2. I may be taking a break from the game, but I am by no means done with it. I do think that the developers are headed in the wrong direction… I had hopes it would be Like Guild Wars. periodic Expansions with new classes… new maps… etc… new skills.

For me Living Story just feels Like a cheap out to NOT put work into an actual expansion. Yes, I understand it is free. But You get what you pay for.

I rather pay $59 for an ACTUAL, real expansion with a world worth of maps..Like The Cantha and Elona expansions… I Loved the New classes. it just feels Like the game is dead. It’s NOT going to have new classes, new skills, new maps…

So yes, I may be taking a break…but I Monitor the game still.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Adry.7512:

Nerelith.7360:

Ok, forget advert…. this has the qualities …of an Info-mercial.

Wide eyed supposed Non-actor on the stage: And can you really get 20 g a day with only 48 % magic-find??? that sounds…amazing!!!!

Paid announer: Yes you can… and here, let me explain How…!!!! All you need to do is follow the steps I will outline, although No one else has been able to reproduce it John!!!

a day? are you insane hahahahahahaha!! holy duces XD ur crazy! i wish! anyways, ur being silly, i def have never made 20G a day….i have made 20G in one day after a while of gathering n stuff….u dont really need much….ever. i bought gold once or twice. once was for 100gems and the other time i….forgot how much =/, but it was low im sure.

EDIT: oh, but i have bought gems for skins!! i like skins ^^

I make 25 to 35 gold daily by doing what MANY consider boring, the first thing I do is from 12pm(my time) to 5:30pm I hop on the FGS champ train, then, at reset I do all the World bosses, once all this is done I throw all the rares and exotics I get on the TP, the following day before I rinse and repeat I withdraw my earnings which is ALWAYS between 25 and 35 gold, so, gold can be made if your so inclined to do this. I don’t do this EVERY day but kitten near.

The whole Info-mercial bit…was humor. I was Mocking info-mercials, and the Upbeat tenor of the OP.

Adry.7512:

Nerelith.7360:

Adry.7512:

nibblesalil.3561:

Adry.7512:

Nerelith.7360:

Well… I tend to spend My money where I play. And My current opinion is…this game was awesome at launch…and each patch takes it further and further away from what I enjoyed. I think it is headed in the wrong direction. So at first I played, and didn’t buy. But… it is so hard to farm Gold consistently… that I saw myself Buying Gold with gems. So I decided if I am gonna spend money., I may as well spend it where I enjoy playing.

When I see that gw2 is headed in the right direction for me…….

I’ll return, and shop.

noooo you can make plentyyy of gold, doing dungeons and farming/gathering. and even if you want to buy gems, its simple, buy gem with gold when gems are cheap and buy gold with gems when gold is cheap. you can merchant this u know =/…..it just takes time, everything takes time. the best part of it all is that for the necessary thingsu really and i mean REALLY dont need much gold…at all. for the hard to get stuff….it takes effort dude =/….thats what the game is for, to make u spend time on it. either way, its way good now i honestly believe that its great and if u log on even once during the 2week events that will come, then u will eventually have a whole bunch of cool stuff to pick n choose from….a lot a lot a lot XD!! you probably just went about it the wrong way.

they nerf everything i find it truly a grind , they nerf every farming area and to gather has become more and more of a grind , to farm is to have them nerf once again , i do not see the point of having to grind for minimal rewards , i find this now insulting to the people who do exactly what you have described and still get nothing because anet found out and took the money the loot away from it all no one wants to loot a bunch of grey after they have spent 10mins -15 doing a world boss , it comes to mind you maybe new to this game because your version of how to do it right , is an insult js

i guess XD…..last time i sold the stuff i didnt need from the gathering thingy i got about 20gold XD, which i know isnt much…..but then again i didnt need much XD. remember it can also have to do with magic find, if you dont break down the materials you find, u wont get good magic find =/. my magic find isnt horrible, its only 48% though and when i mine materials, i get good stuff, but i got the infinite mining pick so idk…..the good thing is you buy once and ur good so yea, i dont struggle. its all possible if u try. just do things the right way, if making money is your goal, then make that your goal whenever you log on. idk dude, i dont struggle =/. the game is quite fair honestly.

Mine is 125 %….

I think you and I are playing different games.

HMMMMM -__________-, kitten then idk XD!!! what is it that you want though? to be super rich? this isnt that type of game xD!!! i always see prople look super cool in this game, so idk what it is you specifically want =/. but yea if u want to be super rich or something like that, yea this game doesnt do that =/….which is good imo. so maybe the game is not for u, or maybe u have a different mindset? idk, im sorry i couldnt help u =/.

As I never asked for your help, then No worries. If you cannot " help" me.

I do not need " help" I am expressing my opinion. And stating my intentions. Not buy anything in the game Until I feel that the game is heading in the right direction, according to MY opinion. Until it does so, it is NOT the game for me, as I told you several Posts ago. I am glad you finally understood what I originally said.

As to being super-rich, No, that isn’t what I desire. But…If I Like to play Open world… and NOT in dungeons… then I should be adequately rewarded for my open world play, since gw2 said " play as you want."…I want to play Open world. If the rewards for it, are a LOT less than dungeons…then it seems that something is off-balance with Gw2’s stated manifesto.

Until I eel there is a rebalance, I will take my money elsewhere, and keep Monitoring Gw2.

Behellagh.1468:

No I haven’t. Everything is from Gold converted to Gems.

But my reasons have to do with protesting NCSOFT for killing City of Heroes. They were getting annually over $100 a year from me which they decided to forgo. Now they will only get a bare minimum. Yes this is unfair to all the people at ArenaNet but it’s an option they allowed and it’s a minimum amount of money to NCSOFT. Wildstar isn’t going to get any of it.

Fortunately I can keep my desires in check, buy a few gems everyday (gem cost averaging), wait for sales and be selective.

I Miss City of Heroes/Villains as well. I am Looking at the Binders from Brady that came when I giot their Guide… for the occasional Updates …CoV..masterminds…

Such potential wasted. City of Heroes even in Free 2 play Mode, was better than gw2.

Ok, forget advert…. this has the qualities …of an Info-mercial.

Wide eyed supposed Non-actor on the stage: And can you really get 20 g a day with only 48 % magic-find??? that sounds…amazing!!!!

Paid announer: Yes you can… and here, let me explain How…!!!! All you need to do is follow the steps I will outline, although No one else has been able to reproduce it John!!!

Adry.7512:

nibblesalil.3561:

Adry.7512:

Nerelith.7360:

Well… I tend to spend My money where I play. And My current opinion is…this game was awesome at launch…and each patch takes it further and further away from what I enjoyed. I think it is headed in the wrong direction. So at first I played, and didn’t buy. But… it is so hard to farm Gold consistently… that I saw myself Buying Gold with gems. So I decided if I am gonna spend money., I may as well spend it where I enjoy playing.

When I see that gw2 is headed in the right direction for me…….

I’ll return, and shop.

noooo you can make plentyyy of gold, doing dungeons and farming/gathering. and even if you want to buy gems, its simple, buy gem with gold when gems are cheap and buy gold with gems when gold is cheap. you can merchant this u know =/…..it just takes time, everything takes time. the best part of it all is that for the necessary thingsu really and i mean REALLY dont need much gold…at all. for the hard to get stuff….it takes effort dude =/….thats what the game is for, to make u spend time on it. either way, its way good now i honestly believe that its great and if u log on even once during the 2week events that will come, then u will eventually have a whole bunch of cool stuff to pick n choose from….a lot a lot a lot XD!! you probably just went about it the wrong way.

they nerf everything i find it truly a grind , they nerf every farming area and to gather has become more and more of a grind , to farm is to have them nerf once again , i do not see the point of having to grind for minimal rewards , i find this now insulting to the people who do exactly what you have described and still get nothing because anet found out and took the money the loot away from it all no one wants to loot a bunch of grey after they have spent 10mins -15 doing a world boss , it comes to mind you maybe new to this game because your version of how to do it right , is an insult js

i guess XD…..last time i sold the stuff i didnt need from the gathering thingy i got about 20gold XD, which i know isnt much…..but then again i didnt need much XD. remember it can also have to do with magic find, if you dont break down the materials you find, u wont get good magic find =/. my magic find isnt horrible, its only 48% though and when i mine materials, i get good stuff, but i got the infinite mining pick so idk…..the good thing is you buy once and ur good so yea, i dont struggle. its all possible if u try. just do things the right way, if making money is your goal, then make that your goal whenever you log on. idk dude, i dont struggle =/. the game is quite fair honestly.

Mine is 125 %….

I think you and I are playing different games.

Adry, what happens if I dislike dungeons? I thought the whole point when Gw2 was released was " play the way you wish"? and yet here you are telling me " You are doing it wrong."

If I Play as I wish, and it is the wrong way to play, then Gw2 has failed in it’s manifesto.

I should Not have to group up with strangers, or Pugs or guildies, if dungeons are not my thing.

What I enjoy is finding a remote place, and manage agro, and handle adds correctly, handle A of E damaging to where I can solo groups… and…end up with a fair rewqrd for skill, and effort.

EACH time I find a good spot… Anert Nerfs it, and DR makes it less effective even before Anet nerfs it.

As I said. Dungeons are not what I really wish to do..so ..either I can play as I wish…or I can’t..if Playing as I wish is doing it wrong..then Anet fell flat on their promise to me at launch.

funny…this sounds Like an advert now.

I have spent …too much. yes bank slots, yes bag slots… but ..also vanity skins.

It has become so hard to farm gold to convert to gems, I was spending cash,. but as someone above me said… the content being added by the game seems to be Gem store content. As such…I am gonna Button up my purse til I see them add actual content to the game that I enjoy.

Not just any content. Other games do it regularly. Gw2 adds armor and weapon skins regularly….

to the gem store. Not what I had in mind.

Aerlen.5326:

>>>The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.<<<<

And these folks aren’t the reason things keep getting nerfed. The reason things keep getting nerfed is because of the other end of the spectrum – the folks who play to win and use every exploit they can find to do so. All of the players who aren’t exploiting the game are scrubs by the definition given, everyone who plays “fair”. The book that quote comes from goes on to say “The scrubs will play for fun and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly”. The good players “found the cheap stuff and abused it”. These are the players who are the reasoning behind nerfs, they found something cheap and abused it until Anet changed it then they cry their exploit is gone.

It stinks but that’s how it is.

QFT

DeWolfe.2174:

Defend.9678:

As well as this the queensdale train was a huge problem for the state of the game as new players who have just created their character not only saw constant toxicity in the mapchat from the sheep but they got sucked into thinking that following a mindless train zerg was how the game was meant to be played and failed to actually explore the rest of the world.
/thread.

The only time QD train became heated was when someone was actively and quite purposefully antagonizing it. Kind of like the terms you are using against your fellow players in this thread. And, to even mention EotM and use PvE as some derogatory term too??? Sounds like you just don’t like seeing others have fun or be rewarded in game.

The dev’s would be wise to leave EotM alone and stop antagonizing the majority of their customers. Attempting to force players into playing in a fashion they do not wish to is not a good idea. There’s a big difference in encouraging and forcing. The dev’s should be mindful of it.

I guess you were ofline the 5 days out of 7 when the people on the QD train would Literally curse out players for taking a champion out of turn….

or is it your position that mearly takinga champion By yourself qualifies as " antagonizing the champ train"?

Could it be you feel the champions all belonged to the Champ train?

Defend.9678:

rincewind.9528:

Honestly, If I wanted to have challenge, serious bussiness, mix maxing and drama, I would be better raiding in WOW.

I’m playing GW2 instead of Wow because Guild Wars 2 is more nice, relaxing, casual. People actually work together instead of competing. You can play the way you like. Nobody will kick of the dungeon for not having certain achievs or Gearscore.
Or so I was told.
Everyday the game looks more and more elitist and mean in general.

Add the thing that anet has for temporary content and PvC (Player vs Clock) and I starting to think that I made a big mistake.
It’s a shame, because the game itself is really nice. I love the visuals and art style. The cooperative style of play (no killsteal, only helping, yeay!).

In some places there’s a nice and welcoming athmosphere, like in the Cliffs. But in others…

PD: It’s funny, people still complains of the toxicity of the QD train… I witness toxicity everywhere. One group particulary toxic is the train haters. Irony?

I’m not disregarding what you say about Guildwars 2 being a more relaxing experience for an mmo overall but there comes a point when people just want more of a challenge something to work towards like a wall to get over not only alone but with friends and guild mates. The whole game is currently built around casual players but there becomes a point where people want/need more progression. Before anyone says go play <mmo> here if you want a challenge I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t love this game for what it is.

For the topic of the temp content, Anet have confirmed that they have seen the light and the whole next living story is all perm content which can’t be complained about.

Yes there people who were against the Queensdale train could be toxic and yes not everyone is polite but I spend a lot of time in Queensdale myself as it is a great place to do dailies and the amount of times I have seen a new player for example at the champion troll event pick up the stone and try to fight it only to be verbally abused over map chat for literally doing the content how it is expected in the game is unprecedented.

I’ve heard people called names for simply trying to take down a champion with a few other players.

Then there are the veiled threats to new players. " so and so attacked the troll out of turn…what a &^#$ing (*&^ … I hope he never needs a group…or wants to get in a guild, i know if he tries to join pone of mine, he’s as good as kicked."

I HAVE heard that On map chat. That wasn’t a result of being antagonized. SOME train riders were toxic, Not all…. but the ones that were NOT toxic never did anything to curb them.. and if anyone spok out against them, they rationalized the behavior of the toxics…Kinda made them all " Birds of a feather" in my book…

nexxe.7081:

…and it just feels like amateur game-design….

…

Wanted to focus on the important part so the devs if they should read this thread don’t miss it. This is how many of us are beginning to feel.

It just feels as though Anet staff put on this game is small, and they are either part of the Blog post staff or the gem shop armor, and weapon creators. It feels as if the staff is spread thin… and the results tend to look as if they are done on the cheap.

Amaturish comes to mind.

Behellagh.1468:

Xenon.4537:

Behellagh.1468:

…The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems…

Aaaand we’re right back to the whole point of this thread.

Aaaand you completely glossed over my point that that tactic could just as likely sink the game in it’s entirety. So you’re advocating “do what we want or everyone’s characters die”.

I believe the idea is communicating your displeasure, by Not rewarding them. if people that are not happy, show their displeasure by ceasing to spend Money in the gem store, i think the devs will get the message faster, and better, than if they just post it On the forums.

Forum posts are just words…. stop spending money in the gem store, their profits go down, a few red letter months may get them wondering." Ok where may we be going wrong?" …

at THAT point whether or not Gw2 survives, is up to gw2.

It is NOT the responsibility of the player to keep this game afloat. Players should only spend Mopney if they feel Like it, Not because they feel if they cease, the game goes away.

It’s Anet’s responsibility to keep gw2 going….Not the player’s.

I believe they will Not allow Gem store items to appear on the TP. It is possible that since the discrepancy between how Much a player spends with in game Gold for gems, and the amount a Player spends In gems for In game Gold is pretty large…. if players could sell gem store skins On the TP…they would be cutting Anet out of the trade.

A player uaing in game Gold, could find a middle ground with a Player selling the gem shop item in Gold… so that the Gem player earns MORE In Gold.. and the Gold player ends up with More product than he might have gotten had he simply purchased gems for gold directly.

I think, that the difference between gem to Gold exchange rate, and Gold to gem exchange rate, generates a profit for Gw2. A profit that might disappear if players were able to cut anet out of the exchange, By allowing gem store skins and items to sell on the TP.

zenleto.6179:

Nerelith.7360:

zenleto.6179:

tigirius.9014:

Gibson.4036:

Belzebu.3912:

The thing with GW2 is that it is different.

Players that didn’t like the differences from their previous MMOs, usually hated GW2 and then they go to the Internet vent their hate towards the game, while the vast majority of the players that like GW2 just play and doesn’t show their affection on the Internet, at least that is how I see the current scenarios.

That is why you see bad comments only in forums and some community opinions, but bigger sites you hardly see any bad article about GW2.

Looks like the exact opposite from my point of view.

GW2 looked like it was going to be very different. Players that didn’t like their previous MMOs had a lot of hope for GW2, but shortly after launch ArenaNet decided to please the small group of people who wanted another status quo MMO, and abandoned many of their core design principles in favor of trying to keep as broad an audience as possible.

The reason the hate is strong is that many people who don’t like the game in its current state really loved what it was at launch, with all that it promised to become. Instead of just moving on to another game, they keep holding out a think hope that ArenaNet will return to their original vision. That hope, stretched out over an increasingly long time, and fed with small crumbs of occasional positive game changes, leads to a smoldering bitterness.

This is only magnified by ArenaNet moving from clear, bold communication about their hopes for the game to a policy of secrecy, and vague statements with room for a lot of interpretation. Any community dealing with the uncertainty caused by that kind of communication from its leadership is going to grow resentful.

Perfect. Might I also add to this discussion that it’s not whining to expect a company to fulfill it’s goals on a product, it’s called an expectation of professionalism. All of these people who trying to marginalize what people are rightly complaining about aren’t helping they are most likely the niche group you are talking about who asked for the very things we expected this game not to be, and having received what they wanted are attacking those of us who purchased the title because it was indeed supposed to be completely different than what we had seen before. Sadly it didn’t turn out that way. Now many of us are hesitant to buy anything else from the publisher because we’re afraid it will happen again, so we sit by the sidelines watching the launch of another product to see if they do some of the same things.

You can not be serious! There are threads on this first page that are so full of whiney lose that I’m surprised we can’t physically hear them. A complaint is one thing but going on and on and on and on and on…. You get the idea. If these people were doing it in a room we were in they’d be left alone after just a few minutes.

All of that to Just say:

“if I can find a way of trivializing legitimate complaints, then that means the problem is them..Not the game.”

This is the discussion version of " Oh ya..well…your hair is a mess, that makes you wrong!! ha!"

No, not really.

yes… really lol..

Skugga.5298:

There is only 1 big economy problem in this game and that is the gem store !

As long as they have their gem store , they will nerf every farming spot, you’ll keep getting meaningless loot, and every new update will be behind the gem store.

Might aswell login open the gem store and just play that game instead because that’s what they want. “We made a game for the players!”, Lol ! During that manifesto they should have phrased it "We made a store for the stupid :`) ! ".

One of the real offenders is Not so Much The Gem Store. It is The Gold In the gem store.

Gems can be exchanged for gold, and this unfortunately places the devs where they have a conflict of interest. If they allow Players to " Gold farm" then you have 2 new issues.

1. No one Buys Gems with cash to buy Gold.
2. No one buys Gems with cash to buy gem store items, since they can trade Gold for gems.

So for Anet to make a profit, the temptation is there, to nerf any gold farms to the ground. That way Players cannot earn enough Gold consistently… and repeatedly. That leads to Players using Gold to Buy gems, which doesn’t Put a dime Into Anet’s pockets.

Now…if that is done judiciously… and carefully… then most people will Not care. Maybe Most people do Not care, and this is a Tempest in a teapot. But…

If the devs lean TOO far into nerfing Gold farming, it begins to feel Like " Use Gems to buy Gold." begins to feel like Pay2win. using some gems to buy Gold cause you want that outfit today…but you know you can always farm the gems at any time..is one thing…

If the players ever get to where they feel the only consistent, repeatable way to earn Gold is by swiping a credit card…. that’s somehting else entirely.

Thobek.1730:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess we won’t have long to wait to find out…only ~4 weeks. =)

…. this better be good.

I see what you did there… good one! lol

zenleto.6179:

tigirius.9014:

Gibson.4036:

Belzebu.3912:

The thing with GW2 is that it is different.

Players that didn’t like the differences from their previous MMOs, usually hated GW2 and then they go to the Internet vent their hate towards the game, while the vast majority of the players that like GW2 just play and doesn’t show their affection on the Internet, at least that is how I see the current scenarios.

That is why you see bad comments only in forums and some community opinions, but bigger sites you hardly see any bad article about GW2.

Looks like the exact opposite from my point of view.

GW2 looked like it was going to be very different. Players that didn’t like their previous MMOs had a lot of hope for GW2, but shortly after launch ArenaNet decided to please the small group of people who wanted another status quo MMO, and abandoned many of their core design principles in favor of trying to keep as broad an audience as possible.

The reason the hate is strong is that many people who don’t like the game in its current state really loved what it was at launch, with all that it promised to become. Instead of just moving on to another game, they keep holding out a think hope that ArenaNet will return to their original vision. That hope, stretched out over an increasingly long time, and fed with small crumbs of occasional positive game changes, leads to a smoldering bitterness.

This is only magnified by ArenaNet moving from clear, bold communication about their hopes for the game to a policy of secrecy, and vague statements with room for a lot of interpretation. Any community dealing with the uncertainty caused by that kind of communication from its leadership is going to grow resentful.

Perfect. Might I also add to this discussion that it’s not whining to expect a company to fulfill it’s goals on a product, it’s called an expectation of professionalism. All of these people who trying to marginalize what people are rightly complaining about aren’t helping they are most likely the niche group you are talking about who asked for the very things we expected this game not to be, and having received what they wanted are attacking those of us who purchased the title because it was indeed supposed to be completely different than what we had seen before. Sadly it didn’t turn out that way. Now many of us are hesitant to buy anything else from the publisher because we’re afraid it will happen again, so we sit by the sidelines watching the launch of another product to see if they do some of the same things.

You can not be serious! There are threads on this first page that are so full of whiney lose that I’m surprised we can’t physically hear them. A complaint is one thing but going on and on and on and on and on…. You get the idea. If these people were doing it in a room we were in they’d be left alone after just a few minutes.

All of that to Just say:

“if I can find a way of trivializing legitimate complaints, then that means the problem is them..Not the game.”

This is the discussion version of " Oh ya..well…your hair is a mess, that makes you wrong!! ha!"

Devata.6589:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I completely and utterly disagree with this.
I play this game with quite a few friends. About 15% of us read the forums. I probably post the most out of us, the others mostly just read.
So the other 85%, just don’t bother with the forums. Not because of anything like what you’ve said. They don’t bother with the forums because to them this is just a game that they enjoy playing. It’s not something they feel they need to spend time on other than actually playing the game. They have fun in game, that is the only side of this there is to them.
They’ll get excited about coming updates and LS. But they find out about this through Faceboob announcements from GW2, map chat, or obvious next steps found in the game (“LA is under attack, we’re evacuating and protecting people, this is awesome, I’m looking forward to when we go on the offensive!”), and I fill them in on the extra details and tidbits mentioned on the forums. Heck most of them don’t even read the patch notes, I fill most of them in on that info too.

I’d wager THIS is what most players are like. Probably the vast majority.
GW2 is a game, and to most of it’s players it’s that first and foremost, and to many it’s only that.

(Edit: Because I forgot to address my disagreement with the other stuff the quotee said)
Oh and I also entirely disagree with your assumptions about wealth. Only one or two of us have ever converted gems to gold, way more have done it the other way around. We play the game, have fun, get what we can afford. When people want more money we do some dungeon runs. Most of us who have spent money on the game have been for new character slots and things (in my case I did it with real money in part because I figured GW2 had entertained me enough to well and truly deserve it).
Quite a few of us have been playing since launch (several of us in the beta). And we have had more friends joining and staying along the way. Sure some people take a break for a bit, but in many cases that’s because something else is taking up their time not because GW2 drove them away. And that’s fine. It’s part of what makes this subscriptionless thing great, you’re free to do this. Only a couple of people have left and not come back.

All he is saying is that if people are not on the forums it don’t mean they have no problems with the game, and if they leave they also just leave but without posting on the forum. The “The forum are not all the players” seems to be used as an argument like if all other people have no complains and that of course is not true.

She…not he. Just a pet peeve of mine.

But you are correct. The fact is, that there are happy gamers in game happilly playing… and Not Posting on the forums. But there are also players that are not happy… and are disatisfied that are not Posting on the forums.

It seems that when a player is content with the way the game is going, and a forum poster says anything critical, some will simply say " well…only 3 % of players come to the forums>" as if that somehow means " Only 3 % of players are dissatisfied, the other 97 % are happy."

Fact is, we have No idea how many of the players in the game that do not bother posting are actually happy with the game.

My belief USED to be…Only complainers post on forums, if you are happy, you don’;t bother. But I used to be happy playing, and I also Bothered to post.

I think People that CARE Post here…. Some….Not all… of the people In game may be entertained, but sometimes they do not care. If they are entertaibned, they play, if they ar enot, they leave. But to say " everyone in game, the 97 % that do not post are happy, I can discount this forum Poster. " is a Bit… Hopeful I guess.

Draknar.5748:

Nerelith.7360:

The irony here is…I DID go back to World of warcraft. Maybe their arrogance was warranted?

Most who go back to WoW do so for nostalgia. It doesn’t take long for that to wear off and you’re left with….well WoW… it’s a brief stay until you find a single player game to play or yet another new MMO to try.

WoW has done a lot of things right and literally changed MMOs for the better, but it’s simply been around too long and they can’t engage players in the same way they used to be able to. The gear treadmill formula has run its course.

In my opinion, it’s also why WoW clones typically fail. You start playing a new MMO, it’s like WoW and you think “man this is great! similar quest system, even the UI looks the same! It’s like WoW 2.0!” Then you realize “hey…this is like WoW….2.0….I’m kinda bored with WoW now that I think about it…”. Then flop.

I commend GW2 for going with a completely different approach, whether people like it or not, it’s a different option for an MMO; no trinity, no gear treadmill (that we’ve seen thus far), etc. Obviously I would love more content and have a reserved hope that LS2 will bring new maps to explore, and their teaser practically screams it, but overall, GW2 has actually been able to try something different and be successful at it. For now anyway.

lol… I Love the rationalizations o f people when they hear " went back to wow." it alway seems to be a negative. " Nostalgia" is One I hear. Another is." Rose colored glasses."

It cannot possibly be " More consistently good than gw2 is now,… while Gw2 started strong… the developers did not remain faithful to their original vision.. or could not… then decided to turn the game into a cash grab. So maybe the players going back to wow, are returning, because …if they are gonna pay to play anyway, may as well get consistently good product, instead of a game that seems to be heading in 5 different directions at once, while s eeking to please everyonr, and therefore ends up pleasing no one." …

nah can’t be that… that would place the blame on the failings of the developers here…. and it keeps players thinking " Gw2 is fine..the players leaving ar ethe ones with problems."

but… Degustibus et coloris non est disputandum.

PS this is exactly what people said to me, at Tera Forums, when I Posted that the cash grab focus on the game was gonna chase people away in droves In spite of it’s potential for greatness, Tera ended up being a cash grab. They also said " Oh she’s leaving for Gw2…she won’t be there for long… she’ll be back." Umm..I stayed away for 2 years…. never went back." or… Like here…" she’ll try it for a couple Months, then Move to something else .." as if I was flighty by nature, unable to play a game for long…

Umm..I was here for 2 years since launch…watching the game slide ever downward.

I can understand the need to say the problem is with me… it’s easier than to accept that maybe the gw2 developers made a Bunch of mistakes..or ..maybe Just have different priorities than the rest of us? We want then to produce a consistently better game, they want us swiping our credit cards to buy their armor skins.

Beldin.5498:

Thuggernaut.1250:

Nerelith.7360:

Guess you have not heard of EQ next? From what I have seen, it will leave Gw2 in the dust.

not going to comment on the topic as a whole, but this is a non-sequitur. anyone who ever played an SOE MMO knows that SOE systematically runs games into the ground like clockwork. it doesn’t matter how good the game looks in the trailer, SOE will mismanage and botch it in record time. SWG, MXO, Vanguard, all down the toilet. EQ1/2 survive on nostalgia alone. Planetside 2 is sinking slowly, and if EQN goes live on the same business model, it will too. it doesn’t matter how good the game or the dev team is, SOE management will send it into a death spiral.

so don’t pin your hopes on an SOE game to save you. Anet runs GW2 like a paradise compared to the way SOE runs games. but if you like WOW so much, have at it, at least you know what you’re in for with that.

And there see that the hate has not only to do with ANet.

I played EQ2 for nearly 5 years and never understood all the hate against SOE, since i never had any bigger problems there.

But as far as i researched for the problems with SWG mostly George Lucas is the one to blame, and for Vanguard its Brad McQuaid who managed to get kicked from Microsoft before the game was released, and SOE in reality has saved Vanguard, because without them it would have never been released at all. Still they simply just get all the hate that they have not put more money into the game after that.

QFT

morrolan.9608:

Why the hate? Simple, people feel betrayed.

While I echo the sentiment, I still don’t call it hate. Betrayed? Kind of. I know many will say " they didn’t promise you Guild Wars. " But it’s like if I Buy Mass Effect. And enjoy it, and then Buy Mass Effect 2. I Kind of expect some connection.

Guild wars had some core elements. And everyone says " they said they were taken out, because doing it would be hard. "

I also expected an expansion by now. With maybe a couple of new classes added. And then people told me doing that would be hard too.

Dual classing? " it would be hard." 100’s of different skills to mix and match? This one I loved. a Combination " It would be hard" + " The players will kitten themselves."

In other words, they didn’t give us Guild wars, because we were too dumb for it, and needed to have it dumbed down for our consumption.

Then In April the traits were given a huge overhaul, went from 70 points to 14. The said they Pushed the traits back from level 10, to level 30…so players would have 20 extra levels to learn their basic weapon skills, and utilities.

In other words they dumbed the game down again. How is it players are not upset at the constant Insults from the developers? That is what these are … insults.

Are we sensing a pattern? Seems that anything that might be fun, was left out, if it made it hard for the devs, or if the devs thought it would be too hard for us to understand. Seems they wanted easy-snoozeville game to put out, and the playerbase has… accepted that they need to lower their expectations… after all if they need to choose between making the game hard for the devs that draw a salary, while they, the players pay money…. and lowering their expectations so the devs can coast.. all while giving the players a shallow game, anything with depth might be too hard for the players to understand…after all, well you can see why I Myself am disappointed.

It’s like going to a 5 star Michelin Restaurant… expecting a gourmet meal, and receiving a crappy tasting meal… and when you complain, the waiter says " I spoke with the chef, he said giving you a fine dining experience… would be hard, besides, you might be too dumb to appreciate it"

Am I saying it is easy adding a couple of new classes to the game, and balancing the skills? No I am not saying it is easy, but other games manage. And this game already suffers from having VERY few skills already. This shouldn’t be a breeze to balance….but..come on… It’s hard? so what? why are the devs drawing a salary for?

tolunart.2095:

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I doubt that.

The game was not built around typical hardcore-MMO-gamer activities like raids and chasing BiS gear. Most of those players have already jumped to a different MMO – and a different MMO after that – by now. The players they are going after are casuals who log in for a few hours now and then, and actually like getting things from the cash shop instead of grinding for weeks to get to Ultimate reputation level or somesuch. Income reports and other things point towards this, such as the popularity of dye packs and BL keys. They do throw the hardcores a bone now and then, starting with Legendary weapons and continuing through fractals and ascended crafting. But I think the majority of players who are still in the game are doing it on a casual basis, logging in a few hours here and there to check out the new LS chapter or whatever, then going back to their jobs and families.

Why do you think they have been so adamant about keeping the LS the way it was? They track how many people are doing what activities – WvW, dungeon runs, open world bosses, etc. If something isn’t working, they change it, and if it’s going the way they want it to (such as putting weapon skins in BL chests, it makes them tons more money than selling the skins directly), they continue doing it.

The fact that they’re setting up for LS season 2 indicates they were pleased with at least some of the results from season 1. I expect some tweaks to satisfy the hardcore gamers, but for the most part, this is a casual-oriented game, one that can be taken in small doses rather than something to schedule the rest of your life around.

You say the player this game appeals to is the casual gamer that likes buying things off the cash shop. Flaming Foxx says the average player maybe has only spent $10 through their time here since they installed the game,

You two should talk. :-)

FlamingFoxx.1305:

The average player isn’t being steered towards the gem store for gold – if they were Anet would be SUPER RICH.

You’ll mostly likely find that a majority of players don’t even touch the gem store or have spent less than $10USD on it. If you feel the need to buy gold with gems then that is on YOU, not the game. I’m a casual player who doesn’t have a whole lot of time to spend playing since I’m a full time university student (read: most weeks I don’t play at all) but I’ve still managed to always have the gold I need just from playing the game normally. I don’t farm, I hardly ever do dungeons, I don’t do FoTM.

The average player doesn’t need ascended gear or a legendary weapon – they have absolutely no need for super high amounts of gold… The whole game, with the exception of FoTM, was designed around exotic gear – which is very easy to obtain – so you shouldn’t ever NEED to buy gold with gems. If you WANT to, then go ahead. But nobody made you do it.

You underestimate the power of fluff. You totally discount the allure of armor, and weapon skins, when that is all that is mostly all the game has… and then the store puts out a new sexy skin. And players don’t buy gems with Gold.

Just because ALL a player needs is exotics doesn’t mean that the Players are not buying skins at the gem store… or an extra bank slot…or extra bag space.

So no, Just because you haven’t spent any money on the gem store, doesn’t mean you represent the average player. Judging from How many people here also complain about How the game is being monetized…. I think you might be In the Minority. After all… if it were true that " the average player has probably spent 10 USD" then these servers would have been closed ages ago.

See Most people that buy Gold with gems don’t advertise it. They just quietly do it.

Another sign that people feel the need to BUY Gold is all the gold spammers that have surfaced of late. You do Not sell condoms to Eunuchs. You Sell your service where there is a demand. The reason that Anet hates Gold spammers isn’t because " we must protect " the game"" it’s because ..they MUST protect their profit.

Thuggernaut.1250:

Nerelith.7360:

Roe.3679:

I can understand if people leave GW2 and not play other MMOs, but in terms of MMOs I don’t know where they are going to go at all.

Went back to, and am currently enjoying World of Warcraft, Got Mists of pandaria, and love playing a monk.

No game compares to it and no game coming out in the near future will seem to compare so far, either.

Guess you have not heard of EQ next? From what I have seen, it will leave Gw2 in the dust.

not going to comment on the topic as a whole, but this is a non-sequitur. anyone who ever played an SOE MMO knows that SOE systematically runs games into the ground like clockwork. it doesn’t matter how good the game looks in the trailer, SOE will mismanage and botch it in record time. SWG, MXO, Vanguard, all down the toilet. EQ1/2 survive on nostalgia alone. Planetside 2 is sinking slowly, and if EQN goes live on the same business model, it will too. it doesn’t matter how good the game or the dev team is, SOE management will send it into a death spiral.

so don’t pin your hopes on an SOE game to save you. Anet runs GW2 like a paradise compared to the way SOE runs games. but if you like WOW so much, have at it, at least you know what you’re in for with that.

Anet USED to run games Like Paradise…. The Original Guild Wars games yes., This one? Not so much.

the way this game is currently… I would go back to Eq1 In a heartbeat. Problem is, the servers are empty. Mostly having to do with the evolution o f the MMO player base, the desire of MMO developers to make WoW type Money, when WoW itself was Just at the right place,… at the right time, and benefited by evoolving their game to appeal to the new casual MMO player.

This game bears little to almost no relation to Guild Wars Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall(?). Therefore before you go about comparing how “Anet runs games.” you really need to focus on the game in question….

Just because an Awesome Chef can cook In a 5 star restaurant…doesn’t mean you say " awesome job" when he presents you with a crap sandwich.

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

In theory, your point is valid.

However, ArenaNet is unlikely to appreciate topics/statements that are as unconstructive as this topic title. What they can use as productive feedback are rationally argued statements, and not emotional rants.

As you must have noticed, most of the statements arguing against Season 2 amount to little more than variations of “I hated season 1, and season 2 will be exactly the same, so I will hate season 2 STOP IT NOW!!!!!”

ArenaNet is unlikely to put much stock in this, because they have already admitted that Season 2 will be different from Season 1, and that they will incorporate lessons learned from the feedback on Season 1. If you choose to criticize the upcoming Season 2 in a constructive way, you have to take this claim into account, and argue a strong case why Season 2 will be bad no matter what.

There tends to be a pattern to Player forum posts.

First the Player is happy… he has a new game full of mystery, He has a lot to learn about gameplay, and a Lot of new people to play with. He barely comes On the forums he’s too busy playing.

Then as time passes he strives for efficiency. He starts Looking up builds, he starts wondering " Is there a more efficient way to level up?" “is there a better place to farm loot or gold?” So he visits the forums to get some Information. Most players stay in this phase which is good for everyone involved.

Some start reading other forum posts and can’t believe the negativity in a game they enjoy… But they read them anyway, at first to refute them.. but some words sink in.. and they start to realize these others that are Negative on the game, are not " jelous… wow fanbois, ..or haters." they love the game too, but they are dissatisfied.

Some In time… Not all, but some, become dissatisfied themselves. I think a LOT of the Playerbase that was here prior to April is in this camp.

They post with Logic, they put up well resoned arguments at first…but then that fails to explain what is truely felt..( since the issue is emotional..Not logical…).

They finally post with emotion… maybe frustration, maybe disappointment.
Then they sense that their opinions about the game they love is falling on deaf ears, they stop posting. So since Anet does not seem to be hearing their complaints, soon maybe, they hear their feet heading for the door.

The fact that many are still here, maybe stuck somewhere between." Logic arguments" and " frustrated emotional arguments " is a good thing. They are still here…. The next step though is up to Anet. Do we continue to hear frustrated complaints? Or will we hear the clatter of exiting feet, followed by the echoes of empty servers?

IndigoSundown.5419:

thaooo.5320:

@Indigo

- snip -

Rush to cater to my desires? Puh-lease. How I personally see it, the development team has all the time in the world for just about ANY project, because as a player who gets zero information and interaction from them, they appear to be doing nothing at all, literally nothing. The frustrating part is that there isn’t even a developer let alone a team, for WvW and SPvP.

- snip -

After 2 years of utter neglect to the two “end game” game modes, I think I’ve been rather patient with them. Don’t you?

That’s a more tightly defined list of issues than was presented in the post I responded to. Statements such as “no communication,” “zero bug fixes,” and similar more closely resemble hyperbole than well-thought out criticisms.

As to patience with GW2 PvP modes .. you’ve certainly been more patient than all of my PvP friends from the original, who bailed in mid-October 2012.

Nerelith.7360:

Preach on. People say things Like “Hey, can’t expect them to rush, to meet your desires” which comes across as condescending.

They forget that a LOT of us have been with them since the release of Guild Wars.

- snip -

I’ll withdraw the “rush” comment. I confess to extrapolating motive based on observation of limited information — the same thing I was commenting on. I’m still of the opinion that the statement about ANet not caring is likely to be incorrect. Perhaps we can all agree to try to avoid conjecture about peoples’ motives and stick to our own opinions and observations?

Works for me ;-)

I never said hey did not care. I am sure that they want the game to be as successful, as we do. I Just get the feeling that…Our defenition of successful, is relative to gameplay…and theirs is to profit.

So when I ask " Is this game successful?" My criteria is .. challenge, and reward for risk..in combating challenge. Theirs seems to be " are Our skins selling on the cash shop?"

Once again, Just basing my observations on what they seem to be focused on. cash shop items, and Monetization of the game.

CureForLiving.5360:

Think it’s the nature of the content, raid tiers tend to be considered ‘more content’ then the average living story content, even though it’s probably just a long hallway with a couple of bosses scattered about. Maybe it’s because players can grind through the living world content faster, so the perception is a bit different.

I think the problem is, that New Raid Content is permanent, and you can ignore it… and then next year come and do it, then you can do it again 6 months after that… it’s there, and you can take advantage of it’s presence for as long as other players retain Interest in doing it, .. and in a fun guild you just say " hey let’s go do bla bla bla!", and you go, because it’s still there.

Living Story for me seems Like a flimsy excuse to NOT Put out an expansion. it’s Possible there may be as much work in puytting it together, but… sometimes, since None of us KNOWS How Much work it takes….. Perception IS reality.

For me, the perception is, that the temporary limited tim,e, limited duration nature of Living Story is…that it’s a cop out to avoid having a real expansion.

But then again, that is just how things seem to me, and purely my opinion.

thaooo.5320:

@Indigo

WvW:
1 big update (PvE map that hurts WvW) and 3 small updates, and a few tooltip updates. In 2 years. That’s all.

SPvP:
6 months per balance patch, and even then it is minimal changes. Minimal changes should be every 2-4 weeks.

Rush to cater to my desires? Puh-lease. How I personally see it, the development team has all the time in the world for just about ANY project, because as a player who gets zero information and interaction from them, they appear to be doing nothing at all, literally nothing. The frustrating part is that there isn’t even a developer let alone a team, for WvW and SPvP.

I could handle the complete silence from them, if they actually had something to show for it. That they actually work on things.

Then of course there’s:
Skyhammer in SoloQ.
Asura racial advantage in SPvP.
1 game mode in SPvP, and it promotes the most boring game play imaginable, bunkering.
Bad Guild functionality. Ignored all suggestions by players.
Bad Commander functionality. Ignored all suggestions by players.
Promote server stacking in WvW, simply for gem revenue.

Lets not forget my favourite:
Living Story bugs are fixed in under 4 hours.
WvW/SPvP/combat bugs are fixed in 6 to 24 months. Or longer.

I’ll stop that list here since it could go on forever.

After 2 years of utter neglect to the two “end game” game modes, I think I’ve been rather patient with them. Don’t you?

Preach on. People say things Like “Hey, can’t expect them to rush, to meet your desires” which comes across as condescending.

They forget that a LOT of us have been with them since the release of Guild Wars.

They built up a lot of goodwill with that game, and won us over with a new idea." Buy the game, pay no monthly… and then buy expansions to fund game development. "

I am sure there must have been a cash shop in there somewhere since people say there was, but hey, I played YEARS, and never experienced it.

Then we get Guild Wars 2. And expect the same sheer awesomeness of Guild Wars.
(I do not call it Guild wars 1. That implies a connection between both titles, as far as I am concerned, there is, and Only ever will be only one Guild Wars. This Guild Wars 2 thing is a totally different game with a “Tyrian” skin on it.), except that it falls very short. They have squandered most of that good will with this new title.

This actually is beginning to feel Like a Korean grinder – lite… with a tyrian skin.

So ya…

No, we don’t HATE Guild Wars 2. If we did not care, we would not post, we are disappointed that an opportunity for Anet is slipping through their fingers to be great, as Guild Wars, with all it’s balance issues was Great. I’ll take the headache , and balance issues of Guild Wars over Guild Wars 2, any day, and twice on Sunday.

I still do not buy the " Oh Guild wars 2, could have been more Like Guild Wars but that would be hard work for the devs. " Hard work?? they get payed don’t they? I am sure their salaries are not minimum wage. I have very little sympathy for a coder that refuses to give me sheer awesome game-play because " hey, that’s hard."

IndigoSundown.5419:

thaooo.5320:

Or you could acknowledge the actual problems with the game (lack of direction, zero PvP development, no community interaction, no bug fixes for any of the core elements like combat) instead of blindly assuming everything is fine and it must be “WoW/GW1 fanboizzz”.

People complain because they care. Sadly ANet doesn’t care.

My first thought was, I can’t speak for ANet devs. However, they’re not really going to speak for themselves with regards to this accusation. So, I will.

Who is ANet? Is it management, staff or both? There is zero evidence that ANet employees don’t care. There is zero evidence that management doesn’t care. Many changes to the game have been made because of complaints by players. Some of those represent compromises between what different player demographics want. Some represent compromises between player desires and what ANet wants. Maybe the changes that you want are not wanted by everyone. Maybe ANet does not agree with you that some things are a problem.

So, let’s look at what you’ve got.

• Lack of direction: This can seem to be the case. ANet has been consistent with regard to some things and inconsistent with others. Some of the inconsistencies occur when they try to please everyone.
• Zero PvP development: GW2 sPvP is not the ESport they aspired to. PvP development has been sparse, but not zero.
• No community interaction: This is blatantly false.
• No bug fixes for any of the core elements, like combat: Blatantly false. While there are issues with combat and other game mechanics, there have been changes. Certainly, combat mechanics for conditions in large scale PvE have not been addressed. There have been plenty of bug fixes for skills, traits, etc. Culling has been addressed, though maybe not to everyone’s satisfaction.

I’m not saying that there are no issues with the game. In fact, I’m not happy with game direction, either. That doesn’t mean I’m going to assume that because ANet doesn’t rush to cater to my desires that they don’t care about their game.

I would not say that waiting 2 years, qualifies as expecting them to rush. That was a swipe. Deal with the issues, as you did In the beginning. The last part was not admirable at all, and you know better.

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s just the usual fanboyism. It’s not “their game”, so it’ “competition”, “the enemy”.

But when they try GW, and then go back to their game, they see all those annoying things we see that we don’t have in GW, and they can’t ever enjoy that other game the same as before.

GW2 has many annoying things, but they got rid of many of the most annoying.

Those who leave GW will eventually come back when they see all the other crap around.

They always come back.

Hate to break the news to you. But I went back to WoW… I Like it Just fine. Not sure what you mean

“But when they try GW, and then go back to their game, they see all those annoying things we see that we don’t have in GW”

Unless you are referring to " Guild Wars" as in the original. The problem is…. This is not Guild Wars. This is Guild wars 2. Except for a graphical upgrade…the game is an inferior to the Original… Kinda Like.. Comparing " Saturday Night Fever II" to the original.

When I came to play GW2 on release i LOVED the game. This is not the same game that launched. It’s changed, the Cash shop seems to be it’s Raison d’etre…

I Left WoW… I came to Gw2…Loved it… after I got a couple of level 80’s I took a break..came back a couple months ago logged in at QD to.." is there a champ train?"

Then the debacle that was the April Update, that monetaized even MORE content… In Game announcements about gem shop items, and reminders that they also sell gold…along with nerfing to the ground,. any consistently, repeatabl;e Gold farming….

Anet doesn’t Like us farming Gold, they want us to buy gems instead.

So…I still play Gw2, because:

1. I have friends here.
2. The gameplay… is pretty decent.

My issue is Not the mechanics, it’s the Monetization, and the Focus On the Gem Store, Instead of the timely release of expansions …as in Guild Wars.

I Played Guild Wars for 4 or 5 years, and did not even realize it HAD a gem store.

Here it’s in my face.

So I went back to WoW, and I am trying to restart my Guild wars account…forgot my log in, and pasword kitten.

As I said. Not sure what you mean by “But when they try GW, and then go back to their game, they see all those annoying things we see that we don’t have in GW” because as someone that went back to WoW of all games…I am not really feeling the “They see all those annoying things we seethat we don’t have in GW”

Maybe you are talking about Guild Wars ? Then it makes sense.

But then again….This isn’t Guild Wars.

PS: (edit)

“Those who leave GW will eventually come back when they see all the other crap around.
They always come back.”

I love How you refer to others as fanboys. This is the same type of Arrogant Fanboyism that I experienced in World of Warcraft. The idea that " don’;t worry, they will all be back, they always come back." except sometimes we don’t.

I left World of Warcraft 2 years ago. So did millions of other players, they actually speak more humbly now. I haven’t seen " don’t worry, they’ll be back, they always come back." there recently.

I Played Tera… they also said " Don’t worry, they will be back…they always come back." when players left tTHAT game….to play Guild Wars II…. the irony. Now that game is Not doing as well.

The irony here is…I DID go back to World of warcraft. Maybe their arrogance was warranted?

Are you sure yours is though?? Not sure even the devs will be on that level of complacency. Never take your player base for granted, even World of Warcraft learned that.

PPS: EQ Next. Jus’ sayin.

By the way, people CAN play More than one MMO at the same time you know? it’s Not a zero-sum game…Pun intended.

Shepherd.5839:

I’m going to be honest I can understand the hate. I mean I’m a pvp player and Guild Wars 2 pvp is some of the best I’ve played in my opinion. But at the same time I can easily see where hate would come from.

For one Anet rolled out a major April 15th patch and then, as they themselves said, abandoned the EU and NA communities to focus on the China release. And now even after the Chinese release we see a festival of the four winds release… and the bugs from the previous patch are still unattended to. What Anet could do to really try and help their public appearance would be to stop releasing so much content so quickly and instead make sure their releases are actually polished. I still have an item with no skin unlock, getting close to two months later now. So I mean, if they actually started working on outstanding bugs that would go a long way to improving I believe.

For PvE players there are plenty of reasons to complain as well as PvE has seen very little serious new additions outside of world events. We still have only the eight dungeons we started with plus now fractals which while more challenging have certainly gotten old fast. Not too mention the rewards from them are lack luster at best. I mean in the 15+ Triple Trouble wurm drops I’ve only received one reward worth mentioning (ascended helm) and that encounter is not easy to do.

WvW? Well Tarnished Coast and Jade Quarry are happy but anyone from Blackgate has as much reason to be mad at Guild Wars 2. After all they lost the season to match manipulation and having literally no chance at winning in a 1v2 situation. So obviously that sort of helplessness can foster plenty of anger, especially when the match manipulating goes against the code of conduct and is illegal in any sporting event. So the fact that they ignored it completely doesn’t foster good company-player relationships.

Overall Guild Wars 2 is still one of my favorite games, but Wildstar’s best hope for stealing my game time is the fact that for the past month there has been a definite sense of Anet abandoning its existing player bases for China. So that is a bit tasteless. PvP reward tracks were nice tho xD.

The problem is, that Anet is a Business first. And there are a LOT of people in China.

Some people have been optimistic saying that when the money comes from China it will be used to invest in developing Gw2 here at home.

Be honest why should they? There are players that will never leave til the servers are shut down, and there are players that will buy anything off the gem shop, even if it’s 2 different colored socks with Holes in them, after all, they are supporting Anet!

I believe that Anet is at a point where they have figured out the sweet spot of content developement, where they can do the least amount and still get the maximum amount of profit… mostly from the gem store.

Almost every new skin appears on the gem store, and doesn’t seem to be available as a world drop or a quest reward. I know you can change gold to gems, but… if anyone finds a consistent, repeatable method of accumulating Gold short of Market speculation….it’s nerfed. So…. people can grind endlessly, but the " for a Limited time only" nature of most of the gem store fluff gets them thinking " I don’t have time to grind gold I’ll just grab the CC card."

and cha-ching…Gem store profits soar.

it is sad, this game launched with so much promise. Now it seems to have run it’s course.

Distaste.4801:

Teon.5168:

Distaste.4801:

Most of the GW2 hate is due to extremely poor post-launch development. We still have incredibly unbalanced builds/classes that seemingly get worse the few times a year they actually try and balance. The entire class system is built on extremely flawed components(conditions, stats, formulas, etc) Temporary content is fine when endgame foundations are solid, but GW2 endgame has NEVER been solid. Dungeons were never in a good place either(the fact that the “3” paths more often than not, feature the same areas with slightly different bosses is weak). Of course we can’t the almost complete reversal of everything they said pre-launch(manifesto, conventions, interviews, etc).

People expected ArenaNet to build on GW2 and in almost 2 years they still really haven’t done that. The things they have added are either disjointed, temporary, or purely flavor.

You could take this exact post, insert almost any mmo game name and/or company name in place of GW2 and Anet, and see this post on almost any mmo forum out there.

I kept it vague so I wouldn’t have to type out all the things that are specifically wrong. If you want me to make the statement very specific then I can and you certainly won’t be able to apply it to another MMO/company. Seriously, I’ll spend a few hours typing up an “anti-manifesto” if you will, on the things ArenaNet has failed at. Just say the word :P

Word.

I think some players here, need a reminder of:

1. What Anet promised…. as a Manifesto, as its reason for being pre-launch,

and

2. Where it either failed to deliver, fell short, was weak in it’s execution, or flat out reversed itself mid-stream.