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Reduce all ascended gear to exotic stats in WvW. For me, that would solve the ‘ascended problem’ altogether.
That’s a pretty unrealistic solution considering that Ascended is clearly the next tier. If they wanted everyone to compete on the same level in WvW, they would just use the same gearing model they have in sPvP for it.
I’m just realistic … I’ve played enough MMO’s to know better. Game direction changes, people get new ideas on how to do things. I knew the second that I had to craft up from rare to exotic gear that all this talk I was hearing about ‘no grinding’ was comical. That was reinforced by the fact there was something called a ‘legendary weapon’ that at the time felt insurmountable to get as well. That was a year ago. How could there NOT be a grind. Fact is that this is a very forgiving grind in this game. You can actually get stuff you need just doing a variety of stuff. It’s not the same thing hundreds of times. People look past that because they feel entitled.
People need to think and have a more realistic approach to how they use what someone said over a year ago. The best part about threads like this is that no one has an expectation for what they want fixed. It’s already easy to get wood and ore. I mean, do you just want it to appear in your inventory? Are you willing to do something for them at all or ….?
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Do you have a quote that Anet said this because I would doubt highly for such a thing.
The most quoted example is http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview.
“Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Wow … again, Statistical loot is not BiS; it’s just some vague nonsense really. This statement doesn’t differentiate GW2 as some revolutionary MMO where BiS gear falls in your lap. If anything, it’s a statement that says “People will be competitive at level 80”. You can be competitive with exotic gear.
People are REALLY digging deeply if they think this meant there wouldn’t be grinding in this game for BiS gear. In fact, you could easily see the progression of mats needed to create gear and that has been ingame since day 1. People should really stop deluding themselves.
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Sure, if you start by enlightening us how well bugged PoV and condition removal stacking has done to deal with condition bunker builds in the current meta. Hint … it hasn’t; if it did, Guardians wouldn’t be QQing about the current meta.
If you can’t see how this change hurts anyone playing a shout based guardian in PvP then there’s nothing for me to do here,
I see how it hurts … I also see how it hurts MORE to not fix it. Again, I doubt HIGHLY that Guardians PVPing like stacking condition removal so this NEEDS to be fixed. If anything this bug shows just how useless stacking removal actually is.
The sad part is that people think condition removal is an effective solution to conditions. Tell me honestly … are you HAPPY that you have to stack condition removal to have fun in the current meta? If not, then you have every reason to support this fix because allowing it to persist will only reinforce your support for the current state of the game.
For me it looks like you didn’t played any non-casual pvp game.
I have, and it has taught me that any bugs that can be exploited for PVP should be removed … much faster than Anet has done with this one in fact.
Because Guardians aren’t Warriors.
So your stance is … as long as WvW is in current meta, it’s OK for us to have bugs to exploit …
You haven’t been gaming long have you.
So discussing any balance issues with PoV ins’t worth even after a dev mentioned it? Whoah.
This isn’t a balance issue with PoV. It’s a balance issue with WvW.
Anet could have done alot of things that aren’t worth discussing but one thing they SHOULD do is fix bugs.
Guys…. it was a recent bug. You’re acting like it existed since the start of the game.
And you’re implying everybody played since the start of the game, or that the condition meta was also there since launch. It is totally understandable to see people upset about this change.
He’s not, but that the same time, people need to have REASONABLE expectations that bugs get fixed, EVEN if they are beneficial to the player. The upset people better get over themselves if bug fixes make them upset.
What people SHOULD be upset about is that they need to exploit bugs to address the current PVP meta, NOT that Anet is fixing the bugs.
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I think the approach to that is simply for devs to rethink the Virtue trait line. As a trait ‘buffer’ line, I think it’s pretty crap.
If you compare with Warrior, you can justify any outlandish suggestion. I don’t think comparisons to other professions are compelling arguments for change. Based on all the access we have to defensive tools, a buff to VoR isn’t really necessary IMO.
What do you think about the active though? It does seem pretty weak.
I do personally feel that untraited passive healing for Guardians need some tweaking, but I can see your point too. However, that active….
I feel active VoR is somewhere between our #6 (in strength) and some of the weaker healing effects we have. I’m actually torn in honesty. While I don’t think it needs buffing, I’m generally not particularly impressed with Virtues as a game element. I feel there are two things wrong with the mechanics:
1. The stat you get for cooldown from traiting Virtue directly and significantly impacts ACTIVE but has little effect on PASSIVE (You need to trait 20 in Virtue before you can even THINK about benefiting your passive Virtues).
2. The effects (not speaking specifically) aren’t strong enough to be noticeable, not weak enough to complain (too much). Some might call that “balanced” but as THE defining profession game element, it’s lack luster.
I’m probably LESS concerned about those things for VoR because of the way that the game pushes people to optimizing their offensive in PVE.
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If you compare with Warrior, you can justify any outlandish suggestion. I don’t think comparisons to other professions are compelling arguments for change. Based on all the access we have to defensive tools, a buff to VoR isn’t really necessary IMO.
Do you have a quote that Anet said this because I would doubt highly for such a thing.
One thing that can be said for this game is that if you want to talk about grind, it’s a hell of alot less grindy than other games I have played. Only a fool thinks there will be NO grind.
OH noes. This thread just fell off that slippery slope.
… “random” players who just play the game and “start” events before “the train arrives”.
That’s exactly how to derail this train.
I reset my traits ALL THE TIME. While I like the concept, I don’t like it’s implementation. I would rather have a portable item that allowed me to reset them for the full fee even. That would still save me the cost of going to the trainer.
I don’t think being time-gated should reserve Celestial the unique opportunity to be upgraded to Ascended. I just don’t get the connection there.
I get how chill is ‘neat’ but it’s a very situational condition for PVE and therefore, hardly worth traiting for. Even if it applied chill on a mob with no cooldown at all (i.e. constant chill application), I’m not sure it would be worth taking for PVE.
On the other hand, Vuln, Might and Fury are good always because you can always use damage.
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I think they look crap, but then again, no one is crafting Ascended gear because it’s nice looking either so I don’t see the issue.
Why is this a concern again?
Your request is highly specialized:
1. Dual PVE/WvW build
2. Your first set is a heal-focused weapon in contrast with your second set of max damage weapon.
Guardian can do alot but I’m afraid what you are asking is to do it all. The traiting distribution is not in your favour. I think your guess for a build is as good as anyone else’s.
Glacial Heart won’t ever be exciting for PVE because it’s not Vuln, Might or Fury. All the other conditions are useless or situational for Guardian PVE, including chill.
Like I said before… many people have the weekends off but are busy during the week and can’t get into the game every single day. It would help those people get it faster without changing the time needed to aquire the materials in game.
Why is your basic assumption that people that play less need to get their stuff faster? What is the premise you are basing this on? I just don’t see why there needs to be a change for this to happen.
Frankly, casual players should not be Anet’s focus in this game model. They are MORE likely to stop playing (and not buy gems) than the guy that plays hours a day. Why should any change benefit this class of player? There is no argument for sub fees … they already paid their initial cost. I don’t see a reason. Anet isn’t going to get players based on a change non-players have no idea about anyways. That argument is nonsense.
Bottom line is that this is a business and their best approach is to encourage people to log in to play. That’s not done by dumping BiS gear in people’s laps that play 1 hour a week.
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Why not let people do things on their own time schedules but still keep it gated and keep the mats the same?
You don’t really get it … it takes the SAME (I’m speaking order of magnitude here) amount of time for a guy who’s hardcore to get the mats as it does the casual guy. The schedule has nothing to do with it. As I already pointed out, the time gating actually BENEFITS the casual guy because it DOES match their schedule. At least moreso than the hardcore guy.
What harm would this cause to have it gated 7 times a week compared to per 1 day?
I don’t know, but that’s not a good argument to change it either. There are LOTS of options and you can claim that any of them ‘cause no harm’. Anet picked the one THEY thought appropriate for the game; a much more compelling argument than “Hey, I want my stuff as fast as the farmer hardcore guy gets it, even though I spend less time ingame”.
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Might as well just determine which auto-attack does the most damage in PVT gear, untraited and leave it at that, if we’re talking the average pug.
That’s a little sensational but it’s probably closer to reality for a PUG than the Max DPS Guardian condition that was in your chart.
Yes, so if I’m in a situation with a PUG, and I don’t expect then to swap (or do 80% of that other stuff he listed if they are other professions), where do they ACTUALLY sit in a damage ranking with other professions? That chart won’t tell me. So what is the value there other than trying to engineer the highest damage PVE dungeon team?
I’m not. I’ve just never seen anyone doing it to maximize damage. There is a BIG difference between what could be done and what is actually happening. That’s what my point is.
You defined the ceiling, we know what the floor is. I want to know where average players are. It’s certainly not the ceiling and it’s not the floor either. I’m not discussing how easy it is to get to the ceiling; that’s just player preference. I’m discussing how relevant the ceiling is for considering what damage actual players do.
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That should tell you a little bit about how you should play your Guardian in PVP. Guardian has never really been a great 1 vs. 1 profession. I don’t see indication that’s going to change either.
I don’t believe you’re really being objective here.
Let’s ask a different question: How many ingame hours and equivalent gold do you think it should cost to get a weapon that is EQUIVALENT in stats to a Legendary. Keep in mind of what a legendary costs …. Now try and tell us again how ‘hard’ and ‘long’ it takes to get an Ascended weapon. You don’t have an argument.
Dude… there would be no cost or time required change in obtaining an ascended weapon if you made it gated 7 times a week compared to once a day. What are you even going on about?
I’m not surprised you don’t get my point …
The fact you can craft a weapon at MUCH lower cost and time to the BiS weapons with the same stats means that there is NO reason to cry about how ‘long’ it takes to craft that weapon.
I don’t believe you’re really being objective here.
Let’s ask a different question: How many ingame hours and equivalent gold do you think it should cost to get a weapon that is EQUIVALENT in stats to a Legendary. Keep in mind of what a legendary costs …. Now try and tell us again how ‘hard’ and ‘long’ it takes to get an Ascended weapon. You don’t have an argument.
2 months ago, I got a weapon equivalent in stats to a legendary in 30 seconds.
That’s precisely my point … you didn’t hear people QQing about making Exotic weapons even though they had the same stats as Legendaries did you? No you didn’t because that would have been REALLY stupid. Sort of like how people are QQing about how ‘hard’ Ascendeds are even though they have the same stats as Legendaries now.
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I don’t believe you’re really being objective here.
Let’s ask a different question: How many ingame hours and equivalent gold do you think it should cost to get a weapon that is EQUIVALENT in stats to a Legendary. Keep in mind of what a legendary costs …. Now try and tell us again how ‘hard’ and ‘long’ it takes to get an Ascended weapon. You don’t have an argument.
It would free up everyone that is going for ascended to be able to do it more on their schedule Vs. once per day events. It’s fine that you don’t care about ascended or being at the top gear wise, but other players and potential players do.
That’s a pretty amusing argument considering that
1) it doesn’t take that long to get those time-gated elements anyways.
2) you get those time-gated elements DOING the stuff ingame you claim you would have more time to do if you weren’t farming Ascended.
I’m going to put forth the claim that if Ascendeds WEREN’T time-gated, then the casual people would be left sucking dust for the events that drop the mats because the hardcore people would have farmed theirs in a few days.
No one should be upset about Ascendeds … the concept and the approach to crafting them is more than reasonable.
Please quantify the difference in your quality of life moving from exotic to ascended weapons because frankly, I think that’s just a nonsense argument. QoL favours exotic gear, not ascended.
This is REALLY simple … BiS gear shouldn’t be easy or cheap to get and because of the the marginal stat increase you get from them over exotic, there is no reason for any casual player to QQ about it’s cost. Expect to put in the time for BiS gear if you really want it, period.
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Just a jfyi I’m a daily player, but I know people that quit or won’t play because of the daily chore nature of this game right now.
Those people aren’t really being objective. There is nothing ‘chore-ish’ about a game where you don’t NEED to do much of anything to perform in the top 80 percentile. Simply playing the game would get people what they needed to craft ascendeds …. just not in 10 minutes like most people expect.
I did a search for where I said it was hard to swap weapons. I didn’t find it. So I guess the answer to your question is “NO”.
Not imbalanced because of stats and it won’t favor a server? You seen what bloodlust does to a GvG?
No, but I see alot of QQ clouding people’s judgement here. Whatever you think bloodlust does to a GvG isn’t a reason to prevent another tier of gear from be released.
The bottomline is that this has no bias towards specific players so it’s not an unbalancing factor.
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@ Oxxy
I’m not talking about someone’s capability to pressing a button. I’m talking about what average people do when they play. Maybe I’m just not aware but I haven’t ever seen a Guardian swap every 7 seconds between GS and Sword to maximize their damage …. anywhere. That’s why I’m concerned about how closely the theoretical matches to the reality of what happens ingame and therefore, how such a theoretical approach to assessing a profession’s max damage is used to evaluate players.
For me the chart is useful from a development POV … devs would find such a thing useful to see where certain professions might be running away or falling behind in capability from the rest. As a player, I find that information hard to use.
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Guang, you should list the conditionals for that DPS to be met. Otherwise we’re going to end up with Mesmers who have an average of 1 phantasm per minute claiming they do uber DPS.
Uh, sure.
Mesmer: 10/30/0/0/30, Sw/Sw and Sw/P. Must maintain 3 phantasms and all Mantras. Phantasms worth approximately 2.4k each.
Thief: 25/30/0/0/15, D/D. Rotation is one auto-attack chain, C&D, Backstab every 4 seconds. Must always flank.
Elementalist: 30/15/25/0/0 or 30/20/10/10/0, staff. All hits of Lava Font must connect.
Guardian: 10/30/30/0/0, GS + Sw/X. Rotation is WW > Symbol > AA > WW > sword AA for 10s, repeat. All hits of WW must connect.
Necromancer: 30/25/0/0/15, D/F + WH. Must maintain all minions. Minions worth about 1.1k in total.
Warrior: 30/0/0/10/30 Axe/M + Axe/Sw. Must always complete AA chain before swapping or using skills.
Ranger: 20/30/5/15/0 Sw/Wh + Sw/A. Pet must survive.
Engineer: 30/5/0/10/25 P/S with Grenade Kit. Throw Freeze and Shrapnel grenades on cooldown.
I guess if we are talking about MAX damage, I can understand where these combos come from. I just question how realistic this quantification reflects the average player, because let’s face it, the average player probably isn’t doing most of these things.
This suggestion is for pvp, not Pve. Slows are almost useless in Pve but are amazing in pvp (yet we have access to very limited immobilizes only).
Then it’s not really a good suggestion because unless Anet starts ADDING traits, they should try to make any given trait work in both situations.
It’s better, but it’s not a gamechanger for PVE.
So WvW already being imbalanced is a good reason for not needing to get 10% more stats when they are available how?
WvW isn’t imbalanced because of stats, nor will an increase in stats favour a specific server so …
^^ This post warms my heart. It should be framed, guilded with gold and carried on the shoulders of cherubim.
It’s refreshing to see someone recognize that the mobility ‘problem’ is part of the defining characteristic of the Guardian profession itself. I’m of the belief that any attempt by the devs to change that will compromise the structure of the class and dumb down it’s play value.
I don’t advise people boost a weakness to get mediocrity. Anecdotal experience over playing many MMO’s is enough to tell us all that the most success will come from doing what the profession is designed to do. Play to your Strengths.
Specifically to this thread (and this won’t be a popular opinion) … if your issue is that you can’t run anyone down, you should stop chasing people. The class simply isn’t made to do that. I feel an attempt to make up for that with something like Traveler’s runes will be a net loss by making your intended toolset less effective.
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I think you are misinterpreting what is being said here. I’m not talking about commanding from an Ivory tower half way across the map. I’m talking about putting yourself in a position where you are playing to the priorities you listed. Perhaps the discussion is more academic but putting yourself at risk at the front of your zerk is not the ideal position to be commanding from, regardless of what people’s successful practice is. As you said yourself, the opposing commander is the focus of the engagement. Therefore, placing yourself at the OPTIMAL position to be targeted by your enemy is not a good approach.
TBH, what you are saying is IN agreement with what we have been saying so …?
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Time gating was a mechanism in subscription based MMOs to keep your subscription active. If it takes longer to do something, chances are you’ll cough up your fees next month. (ANet even mentioned the “time wasters” you find in subscription MMOs and that they would “not do those things”)
Time gating can also be used as an effective throttle to minimize some impacts to the economy. Selling crafted high-end items for example.
With those two ideas in mind, it does NOT make any sense for GW2 to be time gated because it’s not subscription and the high-end crafted items are all account bound.
Maybe they want to keep their active player base numbers high (i.e. we have 100,000’s of players logging on daily!!!! — never mind it’s because they have to in order to finish their first ascended weapon).
Maybe there are more reasons for time gating than the two you have accounted for.
Well, I wouldn’t call it a feature unless we were talking about a feature of bad design. What we are talking about here is a failure to properly account for damage, by player, as every other mature game does.
I don’t really think we are. I don’t get how a non-crit mechanic is a failure to account for player damage. … players account for their own damage making appropriate builds for the content they want to do. The fact is that zerker isn’t an appropriate build for this content. In fact, many MMO’s have such a non-crit mechanic … the same mature games you are referring to that you claim DO account for player damage.
I’m just speculating here but if this isn’t a bug, then the introduction of a non-crit mechanic is a sign that GW2 is aware of the issue they have created by allowing players to all but ignore defensive stats in their gear for PVE content. Hopefully they continue with this direction so that build ideas flourish and players continue to find reasons to try new things.
There is no functional aspect of design that would dictate that crits be removed from direct damage when fighting a world boss.
Of course not, but the devs create this world. They dictate the physics as they see fit. Arguments that are based on what makes sense mean very little in a game with talking rats and dogs with horns.
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Being a commander is a matter of gold, not knowledge …
The most benefit a Commander gives is when they are not putting themselves in significant risk of death. From that it follows that they should not be in the front line for the same reason that people in this thread advocate that they stack PVT, use Signet of Judgement and Retreat … so they are last man standing, doing their job. Those things make you harder to kill, but they don’t make you immortal.
Please note: The historical evolution of military leaders and how they are involved in warfare follows this progression. It’s not just some nonsense we made up.
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