Guild Wars 2

Just a flesh wound.3589:

OriOri.8724:

Wolfheart.7483:

Susy.7529:

I think there are more than enough bank tabs. Those who wish for more should learn to throw garbage items instead of amass them.

Your choice of what to save and not save is not everyone’s choice. What you might consider “garbage” items, someone else might find value in keeping.

More bank tabs are fine. There is no compelling reason for someone to be against it, makes absolutely no sense.

That’s a great sentiment and all, but doesn’t refute his point. The fact is, people who ran out of space just have trouble managing their inventory space. Adding more bank tabs will put that problem off for a few more weeks/months/years maybe, but eventually these same people will fill up those new tabs again, and request even more. And it comes down to not being able to manage inventory well.

Adding more bank tabs will not solve that problem, it just won’t. Eventually you’ll want even more, because you’ll fill up the new ones

Im sure hoarding is a valid point but other than that, what objections do you have to people giving money to ANet for more inventory space? What gameplay problems are caused by people having more bank tabs?

I’m not against more bank tabs, but adding more bank tabs won’t solve the problem, because the problem is poor inventory management. So its just putting the problem off. And I am against people just using bandaids instead of fixing actual problems in general. Which is exactly what this is. People don’t want to learn how to manage their inventories, so they just cry for more space. Except that won’t fix the problem, because they will eventually fill up that extra space with their poor inventory management.

I don’t really want to get into a huge argument, because it already happened a while ago when someone asked for more bag slots/bigger bags. It fundamentally does nothing to address the problem of poor inventory management, all it will do is make posts like this disappear for a while longer, but it solves nothing.

@Esplen – That’s the heart of the problem though…… To get even a semi decent DPS build we have to ignore our F skills. Why are so many people ok with that?

I agree with Menadena – do not start LWS4 in 2017 Anet. Please. Give us the rest of the year to enjoy the expansion content, especially considering it has 5 huge maps. Fill out the rest of the year with festivals and current events, but please don’t start LWS4 before Jan 2018

Wolfheart.7483:

Susy.7529:

I think there are more than enough bank tabs. Those who wish for more should learn to throw garbage items instead of amass them.

Your choice of what to save and not save is not everyone’s choice. What you might consider “garbage” items, someone else might find value in keeping.

More bank tabs are fine. There is no compelling reason for someone to be against it, makes absolutely no sense.

That’s a great sentiment and all, but doesn’t refute his point. The fact is, people who ran out of space just have trouble managing their inventory space. Adding more bank tabs will put that problem off for a few more weeks/months/years maybe, but eventually these same people will fill up those new tabs again, and request even more. And it comes down to not being able to manage inventory well.

Adding more bank tabs will not solve that problem, it just won’t. Eventually you’ll want even more, because you’ll fill up the new ones

Zenith.7301:

Thief would be fixed by giving steal a cast time. Probably won’t fix the abuse of stealth to use a steal to land a backstab, but untelegraphed skills should always be weak instead of playing this guessing game of where the thief is.

1- 1/4 cast time on steal.
2- Pulmonary Impact 10 second ICD.
3- Headshot initiative cost increased by 2 initiative.

A class with that damage and mobility should not be king of interrupts/cc as well.

Headshot is fine. Pulmonary impact is still very strong, but its the trait that needs an ICD. Put a 5-10 second CD on Impacting disruption and it would be fine.

Amaimon.7823:

Well, sure, they’re good, but everytime a class is good at something it needs to be nerfed?
If you repeat that cycle for every class and every function, soon everyone will play the grey blob.
Mesmers supply the alacrity that make raids a lot easier, lets nerf that. Oh, amd druids make the best healers, lets cut that in half.
You know what, lets just get rid of classes, everyone plays the “the person”
It has 1 attack skill, 1 selfheal, and it can stun an enemy for 2 seconds, once every minute. Oh, and lets remove stats, choosing between condi, power, expertise, its all a hassle anyway, everything’s now “hit that thing”-stat.

Sorry for the hyperbole, but once you start nerfing things you’re on a slippery slope to World of Warcraft

If anything, the warrior’s finally a bit playable since we only have to carry 1 banner now.

Sorry to break your hyperbole, but its not at all relevant. Chronos have kitten DPS if they run an alacrity and quickness build. Druids giving out GotL don’t have great DPS. Warriors can still deal ridiculous DPS while still providing the strongest support, and they have so much of it. Banners + empower allies + fury + might, all while dealing really high DPS.

Now compare that to chrono who is “balanced” in that he has the lowest DPS in the game in order to bring less support than the warrior can bring.

Also, in case you forgot, alacrity was already nerfed in half. Its not like it hasn’t been touched. Its also not unique to chronos, yet banners are unique to warriors.

Truth is they give way too many raw stats. And people like you are too stubborn to admit that they are too good.

Carighan.6758:

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

So position of Chronomancer should be dedicated buffbot with zero personal damage?

…. I am sooo kittened right now

You know, if they leave that it’s fine. That’s what the spec was clearly aimed to be from day 1.

Problematic would be if they nerf that support.

How is that fine though? Its support can be matched more easily on other classes that can also pull in lots of personal damage (firebrand giving personal quickness on a dead simple rotation, alacrity. And it leaves mesmer with DPS builds that still rely on single target encounters where their phantasms don’t die, and the mesmers are not even allowed to use their kitten class mechanic in order to achieve these mediocre DPS benchmarks (shameless plug, my suggestion on PF goes some way in mitigating this problem, but only a bit).

How is that still deemed ok? Other classes and specs already in the game can bring more support than chrono can. New specs can more easily output perma quickness while dealing much higher damage than chrono can (on top of the easier quickness rotation). Renegade can output significant amounts of alacrity while still having really good DPS.

Chrono is no longer unique, in any regard. So why do people still claim that we have a support spec, so we don’t deserve a real DPS spec?

@Mikkel – That’s the thing though, this doesn’t ultimately buff power mesmer at all. It just lowers the re-ramp up time, it allows you to pop off a shatter and not lose all that buildup for PF. It doesn’t buff power mesmer at all, just allows it to use its class mechanic with a smaller penalty.

@Carrighan – Not gonna lie, I’d love to see mesmers personal damage get buffed by 25%, but I also am realistic and that’s a HUGE buff. I don’t think its reasonable to ask for that. I also think that shattering clones and phantasms should give the same # of stacks (5 each), after all we’d still have to shatter 5 illusions to hit 25 stacks even with 5 stacks granted per illusion unless we are getting pumped full of might.

This would lock them to LWS3.

Amaimon.7823:

Zenith.7301:

Banners and PS simply need nerfing. They’re way too good a boost for how little investment they require.

why do they need nerfing?
do you want to make warriors absolete?
are you trying to make enemies here?

I don’t necessarily agree with nerfing banners, but they are ridiculously strong.

Spotter “only” gives 150 precision, yet banner of discipline gives 170 precision AND 170 ferocity (more than 11% crit damage)

Pinpoint Distribution “only” gives 150 condition damage.

Empower Allies “only” gives 150 power

Strength in Numbers “only” gives 150 toughness

Assassins presence gives “all of” 225 ferocity

These effects all grant 150 stats with the sole exception of assassins presence which grants 225. Yet each banner gives 340 stats in total, on top of the empower allies that warrior can also bring if they wanted to. That’s a stupid amount of extra stats to give to your party from a single warrior when you compare it to what other classes can give out.

I mean hell, GoTL, despite the fact that the druid has to actually work towards keeping 5 stacks up, can only give 10% bonus damage to the group. Yet banner of discipline will give every player in the raid group more than 11% bonus damage if they are at 100% crit chance. And the warrior can also throw down banner of strength for an even larger damage boost.

People seem to underestimate just how much more powerful warrior banners are compared to other unique effects that you can share with your entire group. They give way more raw stats then they should tbh. And a warrior can also stack them with even more party support via PS and empower allies. Its just absurd.

The truth is that we need real splits between the game modes, not just skill splits. Torment and Confusion cannot work the same way in PvP and in PvE without being broken in at least one of those modes (either too kitten to be useful or very, very powerful for how much access some classes have).

The game modes need to be split once and for all. This includes conditions and boons, not just number tweaks on skills (that almost always get unsplit later anyway….). And in competitive game modes, fewer skills need to be shoving out boons and conditions period.

kellenburger.9245:

more bank tabs. I have 43 characters, I need at least five more bank tabs for all my junk. Or make it so I can sell all my account bound and soul bound stuff on the marketplace.

If you’re ok with selling your account/soul bound stuff then why are you not ok with throwing it out?

DeceiverX.8361:

There is far too much CC, but there is also far too much access to potent, permanent boons, and far too much access to invulns and blocks/negation as well.

The way things are right now, you can’t kill people without locking them out of playing their characters, because most professions are just immune to everything and super mobile/reset-capable for good portions of every fight.

If they nerf CC, they need to nerf everything else.

And I’m not at all opposed to that.

Well said.

It funny that you cite the two classes that don’t gain the full benefit of alacrity when saying that its much stronger on non chrono classes…….

But yes, being able to attack while dodging sounds OP as kitten if you were a class that could output real DPS like other classes. But mesmers’ damage is pathetic even with 4 illusion ambush attacks.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

AoE weakness is so pathetic though. It doesn’t affect conditions at all, mirage doesn’t buff weakness in any way (not even a "take % less damage from foes that have weakness trait), is trivialized by some classes having loads of resistance. Its not useful. And that doesn’t even begin to address the actual problems with the class.

And how tf is chrono in any way OP? It deals the lowest damage. Perma quickness is no longer unique to it once firebrand is released, and kittening CORE rev and a rev elite both have access to alacrity. There is nothing OP about chrono.

Curunen.8729:

Oh no… that’s… well I suppose that’s normal so I’m not surprised. :/

Maybe once we’ve been wiped all over the floor by holosmiths, scourges and so on then there’ll be some fixes/changes/buffs.

No, what will happen is something about mirage or even core mesmer will be nerfed for no reason because a bad deadeye or holosmith player died to a scourge and blamed the mirage for “confusing him”.

2-3 months is not a long time to wait if it means we are getting a new map and mastery with each release.

Overall I loved the release schedule of LWS3, it gave people plenty of time to enjoy each release at their leisure before the next one came out.

No more power creep. If you really believe that zerker gear is underperforming compared to other gear, then ask for the other stat sets that are overperforming to be nerfed instead.

Sifu.9745:

I really wanna know why people believe that Necros, Rangers and Warriors are more noob friendly professions for soloing open world?

Because they have much more passive defenses, while mesmer is full of active defenses. With necro you can pop shroud and enjoy 50% dmg reduction while having access to strong skills. Ranger’s pet can take the aggro and actually eat damage unlike our illusions. Warrior just has a stupid amount of passive defenses.

Mesmers defense is all active, so if you don’t work at it, you will die. You have to manually summon illusions to take aggro, and keep resummoning them. You have to use your teleports and BF to mitigate damage, stun the enemy to interrupt an attack etc… Its all active, and when played well it makes you unkillable. When played poorly, it makes you die a lot

I think the pace for new fractals is pretty good. Only thing that I would like to see come out faster is revamping older fractals. We still have plenty of them that need to be brought up to the level of the new/updated ones.

I think Refia got what I meant, read his edit. I made an edit on the original post to try to clear up confusion for others reading this thread.

As to your question Zealex, both shattering illusions and gaining might stacks will add more stacks of phantasmal force to you (5 per illusion shattered, and 1 per might stack gained). You have a few optionsto build it with that. You could be in an organized group who will hit 25 might stacks and have max phantasmal force .You could just summon a bunch of clones and shatter them quickly to build your own stacks, and then summon phantasms, or you could generate your own might if you don’t care about building PF all that quickly.

I’m not trying to trivialize the buildup, I still think you should work for it. I just want to see the buildup not be wasted because you had to shatter, or your phantasm was killed.

I don’t see the need for easy mode raids honestly. And if you want training, the new and revamped fractals are a great place to become a better player. Especially the nightmare fractal and shattered observatory. They won’t teach you raid mechanics, but if you can play your class well learning the mechanics of the raid bosses will be fairly easy to do.

Alwayshappy.2549:

Levetty.1279:

Once again somebody who doesn’t play Mesmer comes in and tells people with extensive knowledge of the class that they are wrong about everything.

It is getting tiring.

Gee, thanks for making me feel so welcome. All I said was that I enjoy the spec and don’t really agree with all the hate. That’s MY opinion. Don’t like it? That’s not my problem. If you can’t read, and prefer to read what you want to read in order to justify your post, that’s also your problem.

- Never said you guys are wrong about everything, just that I(!) find the spec enjoyable and that I (!) don’t agree with all the hate. If you read that as ‘’You guys don’t know what you’re doing/you are wrong about everything, then I don’t know what you’re doing on a public forum, where everyone should feel welcome/be appreciated.

- Never said I didn’t play mesmer. I said it’s not my main. Doesn’t mean I don’t have countless of hours spent on my mesmer. That’s what you want to read. So that you can cry about someone correcting you again. Grow up dude. Seriously. It’s a forum.

Levetty is pretty kitten salty over mirage, and he can be abrasive sometimes just in general. Don’t take it personally.

We don’t like mirage because it further highlights huge, glaring problems in core mesmer design, and then it builds on those flaws, making them more pronounced than ever without even trying to address them (at least chrono addressed the flaws, albeit in a very OP way at first). We have every reason not to like the spec, because it means, regardless of whether the devs fix the spec itself, that the devs have no interest in fixing those design flaws at the core mesmer level. None.

Can mirage be made to work? Yes. Can mirage be fun to play? Yes, I quite enjoy the playstyle of it even though I don’t like the spec itself. Can mirage be tuned by Anet to be significantly better than it was at the demo weekend? Hell yes, ANet can do it. But that won’t change that mesmer’s class mechanic is self defeating, and mirage highlights this and takes it to a whole nother level. Since this spec focuses so much on clones it should have an effect where all of our clones are buffed significantly, but it doesn’t. it doesn’t even make them hardier unless we take a GM trait for it, and then either use a dodge or put ourselves in danger to pick up a mirror. And even then all it does is give them a pathetic attack and a 3/4 sec blur. They’re still paper. They still suck kitten

Carighan.6758:

Yep, Mirage in PvE truly showed just how bad of a disaster this elite spec is.

• No cohesive design.
• No specific element it provides.
• Rubbish “unique mechanic” in the ambushes which make you wish it wouldn’t overwrite your AA button.
• Punishing weaker dodge, which could be balanced if those ambushes were strong but they’re not.
• Gimmicky mirror mechanic which again is so undertuned there’s just no point.
• Weak, weak, weak, weak. That’s the only cohesive thing about this spec. “Weak”.

Pretty good summary of the design of the spec.

Carighan.6758:

At the very least, I’d change this:

• Mirrors now last 12 seconds.
• All deception-skills cause a mirror, including Jaunt (leaves it where you left!).
• Jaunt has 600 range.
• All Ambush skills significantly improved, from ~x3 (Scepter) to x10 (Greatsword) the damage they do now.
• Infinite Horizon removed.
• Mirrors which are touched by opponents shatter, creating a clone and weakening foes (but not giving you cloak). They can cause the sand effect from the Grandmaster trait!

Completely agree on the mirrors lasting 12 seconds and giving jaunt 600 range.
All deception skills leaving a mirror, may be overtuned IF mirrors get all of the improvements that some of us have proposed. If they don’t then this would be balanced. Either way if its deemed too powerful to be baseline it could become a GM trait. Also completely agree with significantly buffing our personal ambush attacks. They need to be on the same level as thief stealth attacks at least, maybe more powerful even since we not only have to use a dodge (or a gimmicky mirror) to get access, but the tells are huge and we don’t innately have the advantage of stealth like a thief does.

Don’t agree on letting opponents shatter mirrors. That feels like too much counterplay to them.

Refia Montes.3205:

Never said that it didn’t affect Phantasms. It’s OP because a 25% overall damage buff is way too good.

What are you going on about? The effect is already in the game and we can already trait for it yet its clearly not OP or everyone would have been crying about it. I’m not trying to buff the trait, just make it more consistent and make shattering hurt your sustained dps less.

I think you’re confused. I am not proposing that the mesmer also get the 25% damage buff. I only want the effect on mesmer, to affect all illusions that you summon, so that when you shatter or when an illusion is killed and you have to resummon it, you can resummon them with full stacks right away instead of waiting for the stacks to build up on each phantasm individually.

No, the trait would affect phantasms. It would be on you though so that you don’t lose all those stacks when you shatter, allowing you to summon new phantasms who will have the +25% damage off the bat.

All deception skills really should be spawning a mirror, with sand through glass generating 2 (one where you start and 1 where you end). I agree with that.

The proposed change is interesting for sure, but its still a pain if we have to go pick them up still, at that point I’d rather just have the mirrors be given to us as a charge, with some indication ingame to other players (maybe a small mirror following us around?). So we get a mirror and its immediately granted as a charge that we can then use at our leisure.

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

My main concern is – if WP is spreading such a bullcrap about Mesmer – which I play and understand…. what quality of information I am getting from his videos about classes I do not play and therefore have very limited insight about?

I mean outside his elite spec videos he doesn’t talk that much about balance anyway, and when he does a lot of it is about ele and necro (which I think he plays often, isn’t ele his main?).

Just move Speed of Sand into Mirage Cloak (the trait), and then for the GM minor make axe skills grant 5-10 endurance when they hit.

I don’t think the GW2 engine can even handle convincing illusions. The other player would have to be on a different team for you to damage them, but if they areon a different team then they can also damage you.

I agree with Levetty and Durzlla. We as players deserve to know what some of the bigger changes were at the very least, especially if its a mechanics change instead of a numbers change.

@Esplen – Only apply it when the duration for clones is different then. And if its wasted who really cares? Worst that happens is we just don’t implement it.

@Lanhelin – You misunderstand the point of PF. Its not supposed to beef up a shatter build, but a phantasm one. A build focused on sustained damage. So it has a different role than MoF does. Right now, if you shatter you lose all that buildup, but moving it to the mesmer themselves and increasing the stacks when you shatter, you are allowed to shatter if you want to without losing that buildup. But shattering often would still be a detriment to your sustained DPS because you’d have to wait to get your phantasms back up 2 different roles for 2 different styles of play, so I don’t see a problem with PF being moved to the mesmer. It would still allow for PF and MoF to have their own uses.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Update on Elite Specializations:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stress-Test-and-Elite-Specializations

Content:

Stress Test and Elite Specializations

A message from the Skills and Balance Team:

We hope you’ll enjoy riding around in Elona with the new elite specializations today and look forward to hearing about your experience.

There have been a number of changes and bug fixes to some of the specializations since the first time you were able to play them during the WvW/PvP Preview Weekend. However, we still are vetting and testing many of the changes, and as a result the stress test today will have the same versions that were featured during the preview weekend. You’ll be able to see the updated elite specialization changes on September 22nd!

See you in Tyria!

Are we going to get a post by Anet detailing some of the more prominent changes like what happened with HoT (specifically the post on druids and how a lot of the spec was changed after the beta weekend).

I know where the branch is, I used it in about 5 attempts. In only 1 of those 5 attempts was I hit by a rock (even though he isn’t even supposed to be able to target you up there), in the other ones I was hit by nothing. But I never got the achievement either. I feel like that was patched.

And its such an annoying achievement to go after as well.

mortrialus.3062:

Cyninja.2954:

No one is saying mirage should never ever shatter.

… Almost everyone who commented on Infinite Horizon want it baseline because they’re convinced that it makes ambush attacks stronger

Oh jesus christ. It DOES make ambush attacks stronger. This is a fact. Clones add more physical damage, regardless of how little, and they deal more stacks of conditions. You cannot rationally say that IH does not make ambush attacks better if you have clones out. You literally cannot rationally argue that.

You can argue that it doesn’t make enough of a difference to be worth it, because that is certainly something most people agree with. But you can’t seriously be arguing that it doesn’t make ambush attacks with clones stronger.

This thread is over, you’re nothing more than a troll.

Edit – After some confusion I feel the need to point this out. I am not proposing that phantasmal force affect the mesmer’s personal damage. I only want the effect to be placed on the mesmer, and have it be changed to increasing the damage of all illusions by 1% per stack, with a maximum of 25 stacks. Placing it on the mesmer gives greater control over it, and allows you to resummon phantasms at full strength after you shatter or they are killed. This should not increase the mesmer’s personal damage.

I think that phantasmal force is a step in the right direction with phantasms, but it could definitely be improved a lot. I propose that phantasmal force be an effect on the mesmer themselves that affects their illusions damage (clones and phantasms). For each stack, it would increase the damage and condition duration of each illusion under your control by 1%.

Getting a stack of might should still increase it by 1 stack, and shattering should increase it by 5 stacks per illusion shattered, ignoring illusionary persona. Duration should be fairly long, 30-60 seconds per stack in my opinion.

It should affect the mesmer himself instead of illusions directly because as it currently works, the entire buildup is still lost when you shatter. So shattering is now an even bigger detriment to your sustained DPS if you are taking this trait. But if it affected the mesmer, we would be allowed to shatter without losing that buildup, and when phantasms are re-summoned they are re-summoned back at full strength.

It should also affect clones to synergize with ambush attacks. The extra power damage won’t make a difference, but the condition duration will help a little bit, especially since they already have lower condition duration on the ambush attacks than we do.

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

Ultimatepwr.9562:

I agree with TexZero. After the last agony rework, and the INFUZ golem, the agony system is actually really healthy for the first character

Yes. For the first character.

…and it only becomes easier for subsequent characters.

I have one of each profession fully geared out thanks to primarily fractals. I’ve personally only crafted 2 sets out of the 14 i have on those 9 and have an additional 37 boxes on a storage character.

Just to further this, the average gold gain per week of fractals just from opening the encryptions is 100G. If you’re really dead set in getting that sweet sweet Alt geared use that to your advantage as it should only take you ~ 4 weeks to fully gear using that assuming you get no drops whatsoever.

Yes, after you are clearing T4 fractals, which means you still need the up front gold to get a full set of ascended gear and 150 AR to be running those fractals daily.

I don’t have a problem with the AR system though

I just gotta say as a mesmer, that its downright infuriating that classes like war get 14% bonus damage for something as simple as the foe having no boons (especially with how much boon rip spellbreaker got), yet mesmers have to deal with kitten like 3% extra damage per easily destroyed illusion, not to mention losing that entire extra damage after shattering.

Anyway, I agree that spellbreakers dps won’t be as low as people claim it is, but it still won’t be the highest by any margin.

Honestly with so little time before the expansion I think we have a better chance of just asking for a single F5 instead of a rework of all 4 shatters.

I’d love to see a new shatter that either retargets illusions on a short CD (should be on base mesmer though if we’re being honest) or shatters mirrors for some awesome effect and battlefield control.

I don’t recall DE working with IH, but I could have been wrong on that.

And his arguments about mobility are just absurd. We have the highest mobility if we have access to tons of vigor, even though mesmer doesn’t have nearly any sources for it (2 traits related to shattering and a RNG buff from SoI) for endurance in order to use superspeed on executioners axe. In other words, our “highest mobility in the game” depends on a gem store item and other classes/food giving us endurance regen (though newsflash WP, if we are so much faster than them, how are they going to keep up with us and provide vigor…………?). Compare that to a DDs mobility which is entirely self contained, no food/other classes/gem store crap needed, and could still keep up with a mirage if the DD knew what they were doing (and provided they weren’t really fighting, just using initiative for movement). There isn’t a comparison. The quality of DDs mobility blows that of mirage out of the water since it is self contained.

30k dps is not bad DPS. And with a 2 or 3 button rotation its much easier to hit close to that than it is on some other classes, so your % DPS will be higher than it might be on another class, which means your actual DPS will probably be higher on power mesmer as well.

Plus, what’s the top class at? 35k dps now? That’s not going to make any difference. If you couldn’t clear the boss with a power mesmer as a dps slot then that extra 5k dps (less actually in reality due to people not having perfect rotations), was not going to make your group beat the boss.

Stop trying to push this fairytale that you have to have the highest possible DPS of any class in order to be useful to a raid group. Most people are not in coordinated groups that are at that skill level to where it matters.

I will not have time to participate in the stress test unfortunatley. But hopefully mirage is enabled, I really want to hear how it performs in open world PvE

Loony.3714:

I think the real problem is that Mirage isn’t an anything spec. It doesn’t do damage, it doesn’t do support, and it doesn’t give any utility. Its a slightly more gimmicky version of what mesmers already did. Thats why we cant decide on what kind of spec its supposed to be.

That might have something to do with how they designed it, or rather with how they designed towards a name instead of a playstyle/role. And how they just had to throw mirrors in there after seeing the art instead of throwing them in because they had a concrete plan for the spec. It needs a LOT of work.

Levetty.1279:

The problems with all these ideas for Mirage Mirror is it require more effort on Anets part then sticking this art asset in the game and then moving on to design 100 new skills for Weaver.

Honestly its a surprise that Mirrors do anything in the first place instead of the spec being designed to create diamonds for the other classes to look at as they actually get to play the game.

Yea….. You’re pretty salty but you have a great point. Weaver got a metric kittenton of new skills, it had to have eaten up a huge portion of time relevant to what other specs were getting, and that’s not even mentioning the new tech they had to work on to get dual attunements to work correctly. Meanwhile, mirage can’t even be bothered to get a new kittening shatter. Aren’t we the only second gen elite spec to not get either revamped or just more F skills other than weaver (but even then he can at least use 2 attunements at once now….)

Loony.3714:

mortrialus.3062:

Saying Chronomancer is THE shatter spec and nothing else is nonsense. I never said ambush skills aren’t supposed to be what Mirage bring to the table and be good at. I just said it’s supposed to shatter. Yeah, Mirage has clone generation in it’s traits as well. The problem is that Deception Skills are really bad so it’s clone generation pales in comparison to Chronomancer’s Chronophantasia.

Wait I’m confused if three traits make Mirage a shatter spec then what Chronomancer’s:

Continuum Split: A whole new shatter
Time Catches Up: Super speed on illusions
Illusionary Reversion: Shatter skills generate a clone if you have enough illusions present.
Chronophantasma: Phantasms are resummoned after a shatter
Seize the Moment: Shatter grants quickness

By my count thats 4 traits and one additional shatter. So by your logic that makes it more of a shatter spec than Mirage. And in your words: “Chronomancer is a defense and support specialization”

So can you clarify why three traits make Mirage a shatter spec while chrono’s 4 traits and new shatter make it defense and support?

Of course he can’t, because mirage is anything but a shatter spec. Of those 3 traits OP is using as his “argument”, one of them buffs our ambush attacks, another one is a mirage mirror generation trait (so its more related to ambush attacks than it is to shatters), and the other one doesn’t fit thematically with shatters and needs to be reworked.

Mirage centers around mirage cloak and ambush attacks, it has

6 traits related to mirage cloak
3 traits tied to ambush attacks, along with a fourth that helps us gain access to ambush attacks via granting vigor

The best argument OP can come up with involves a maximum of 3 traits, of which 2 of them buff the kittening ambush attacks instead of buffing shatters. Yet we solidly have 6 traits for mirage cloak, and 3 traits that are actually tied to buffing ambush attacks.

Its pretty kittening clear that this is not a shatter spec, but is indeed designed around mirage cloak and ambush attacks. I mean hell, you literally can’t have a GM trait that doesn’t improve your mirage cloak gained from dodging. Every single one, including the minor, buffs either mirage cloak itself (including that gained from mirrors), or buffs dodging, which grants mirage cloak).

Power mesmer can now hit around 30k DPS with a free utility slot, so it viable for raiding without the gear requirements that chrono tank has.

mortrialus.3062:

…….
Mirage is clearly supposed to be a shatter spec. Let’s look at some more of the traits:

Riddle of Sand: When entering combat, your first Ambush attack applies confusion. This ability refreshes when you use a Shatter skill. (Major Adept)

Nomad’s Endurance: Shatter skills give vigor, which grants Condition damage. (Minor Master)

Shards of Glass: Shattered Illusions have a chance of becoming Mirage Mirrors. (Major Master)

…….

No, it isn’t. Stop trying to convince people this is true, because its as far from the truth as we can get. Chrono is the shatter elite spec we got, that’s why it had so much illusion generation tied to 2 traits, on top of alacrity to get our shatters (and illusions) up faster, on top of giving superspeed to shatters. Chrono is the shatter spec. Mirage is not.

There is nothing, literally nothing, in the trait line that says its a shatter spec. Nothing. Your “evidence” consists of 3 traits, all of which are meant to minimize the harm that shatters do to yourself (in terms of losing DPS and both losing the deception part of the spec).

Riddle of sand directly buffs your ambushes, not your shatters. The reason it refreshes when shattering is to help offset the cost of losing all of your clones when you shatter (hence, losing the extra stacks of conditions). Even then, its not even that strong. Its just 2 stacks of confusion, which a single clone performing a staff or scepter ambush will do more damage, much less having 3 of them.

Nomad’s endurance again doesn’t buff your shatters. Its just that ANet didn’t want a spec that had zero interaction with shatters. Vigor on shatter doesn’t even make sense, it should be vigor after a dodge to fit with the theme of the attack (or vigor after landing an ambush attack).

Shards of Glass, again doesn’t buff your shatters at all. It just gives us a chance at another mirage mirror. And since shattering destroys your clones, the “deception” this class has vanishes after a shatter, so giving us a mirror is a weak way to give us some sort of defense for losing the deception. This is even more evident since deception and confusing enemies seems to be the primary defense of this spec according to the theme (practically they don’t work that well).

Mirage is anything but a shatter spec. Sorry to be so blunt, but you really couldn’t be more wrong about it. The reason you keep grasping at straws here is because its so bad at what its supposed to do. Which is deceive enemies via clones, and performing ambush attacks. Honestly, if you think ambush attacks aren’t supposed to be a large part of this class then it wouldn’t have put in mirrors as an alternative mechanic to access them.

Mirage is NOT a shatter spec.

He’s complaining about our feedback, but he hasn’t actually read any real feedback from mesmer players. Its quite evident when he’s asking for clarification on things that we have discussed.

Considering that, I don’t think its rude to be very critical of him over this. I say this as someone that genuinely enjoys his content overall. Its just that he’s being super critical of and mostly dismissing the feedback from actual mesmers, yet he hasn’t even bothered to read through all of it objectively. Hell he hasn’t even bothered to read through it period.

He was still talking about potential synergies as if we hadn’t thought of them immediately. But we did, and tested them, and they don’t even work. Yet he’s still basing his opinion on mirage as if these synergies hold true. Its insulting that he hasn’t bothered to read our feedback, yet still feels the need to complain about it. he doesn’t even understand how the ambushes work with other traits (since they don’t) from core mesmer.

Dondagora.9645:

OriOri.8724:

Yea, its kind of insulting that he insinuated that mesmer mains weren’t seeing these synergies immediately. The reason we haven’t discussed them though is because they don’t cover up a flawed design.

The synergies he talked about, at least the DE and interruption ones, I tested myself. DE clones don’t get Mirage Cloak on-summon, and interruption traits don’t trigger on a sword clone’s ambush.

So… we’ve discussed them enough.

Yea, I know that. But he hasn’t bothered to even read the mesmer discussions about mirage because he was still asking for people to test these synergies and see if they even work.

Ester Sauter.7694:

MithranArkanere.8957:

Ok. Let’s all make minion masters, equip minis and concentrate in one point and use all of our skills at the same time.

That would be awesome, everyone do that

Wait really? Is this really what you want people to do?