Guild Wars 2

Well yea, but the same can be said about other sigils as well, especially nullification.

Plus, if you have only 1 source of stealth on your bar and you are upset that it gets countered, that doesn’t make the sigil OP. It just makes the sigil a viable way to counter stealth. If you want to get around it, add more stealth to your bar. Or don’t base your build around camping stealth.

5x spiritwood planks, 2x deldrimor steel ingots, and slightly over 20g worth of mats for the orb of natural essence. This brings the cost up to ~79 gold for each weapon from that current event chain after the first one.

I know that it seems cheap if you have the mats, but the 2nd-5th weapon you get from that chain is more expensive than just regularly crafting a weapon. Currently it costs only 68 gold to craft zojja’s claymore.

Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946:

The other side of this is the need for Potions of PvP Rewards for GH upgrades. Dailies are the only way to get them, so removing two potential options for me to get them is a bad thing. Upgrades to the GH are already enough of a grind, making it even more painful is suboptimal.

These dailies should be replaced with a “Win X games” daily, where it can be 2-3 games. Then the last daily could be “play a game on Y map” to encourage players to play different maps. End result, only 1 less PvP potion (since the game on a specific map should only grant 1 potion), but players are no longer given huge incentives to play classes that they aren’t as strong at.

omgdracula.6345:

Shaman.2034:

omgdracula.6345:

mrauls.6519:

omgdracula.6345:

Could we get some clarity on Revelation? It says the duration is 1/4 second long which is obviously way less than most stealth durations will last. It is a true reveal or just temporary?

Will it apply the same revealed debuff that breaking stealth with an attack does?

I’ve never seen a reveal put someone back in stealth once it ends

Well then it would have no point to have a duration on it would it?

A weapon swap should not be able to completely negate say an Engis Gyro Copter, or a full cooldown like thief’s Blinding Powder.

I imagine if it has a 1/4 duration that it acts like spies in tf2 where if they bump into your they are temp revealed.

I just want clarification if it also applies the Revealed debuff. Especially when it has no counter play.

It’s very straightforward. It applies Revealed for 0.25 seconds. When Revealed is applied, it removes all stacks of stealth and prevents gaining new stacks for its duration. After 0.25 seconds, stealth may be gained again.

Well that is why I want clarity. Revealed is by default 4 seconds. So is it the same type of revealed or not? It would make more sense to make it a debuff called detected.

Revealed that is caused by you landing an attack while in stealth is 4 seconds. But revealed itself is just an effect that is applied, the applied duration can be different.

The only point of sigil of revelation is to force players out of stealth.

And I don’t see why people are complaining so much about it. Its 1/4 sec reveal on an 18 sec CD. Its hardly broken

omgdracula.6345:

mrauls.6519:

omgdracula.6345:

Could we get some clarity on Revelation? It says the duration is 1/4 second long which is obviously way less than most stealth durations will last. It is a true reveal or just temporary?

Will it apply the same revealed debuff that breaking stealth with an attack does?

I’ve never seen a reveal put someone back in stealth once it ends

Well then it would have no point to have a duration on it would it?

A weapon swap should not be able to completely negate say an Engis Gyro Copter, or a full cooldown like thief’s Blinding Powder.

I imagine if it has a 1/4 duration that it acts like spies in tf2 where if they bump into your they are temp revealed.

I just want clarification if it also applies the Revealed debuff. Especially when it has no counter play.

Yes, it applies the revealed debuff for 1/4 seconds. What in the wording made it sound like it wouldn’t apply the debuff?

Much better list overall, I appreciate that you guys went and upped the ICD on a few that were too powerful instead of removing them or making the effects worthless.

That said, @Rising Dusk – Instead of just buffing everything, why not just decrease Sigil of Strength/Frailty to 8 second duration. That way they can maintain a permanent 4 stacks, but the burst ones still outclass them for a burst effect.

For sigil of nullification in particular though, I’m not happy with sup sigil of nullification. And I don’t agree with buffing it to remove 3 boons every 2 weapon swaps, as removing 3 boons at once is quite a powerful effect. I would rather it be changed back to how it was, but allow players to use 2 of them at once if they wanted to. This would allow someone to strip 2 boons every weapon swap if they wanted to, but at the expense of not taking a better sigil. But this is pretty minor, if it is left as it is now it will still be fine.

Chaba.5410:

OriOri.8724:

In fact, it would be identical except with the condition specific stats instead of power specific stats.

That’s terrible design.

You clearly didn’t read the rest of my comment. You asked how it could be incorporated, and I showed you how it could be incorporated into the formula. I never said it was balanced, I in fact stated that what I threw out was not balanced. It was just to be used as an example of how a mitigation stat could be incorporated.

babazhook.6805:

sephiroth.4217:

OriOri.8724:

Shatters need to be traited to apply torment and confusion, I thought this was basic knowledge? If you had paid any attention to my posts, I want applying damaging conditions to cause revealed. Which would make this a non issue in the first place.

I thought it was pretty obvious the Mesmer is traited for conditions when we ARE talking about condition builds (any player with any shred of experience in this game would know these facts without it being spelled out for them, most people the context is enough)……. And if you read my posts, I was the one who suggested condi to reveal, kitten .

I really hate spelling it out but if you don’t understand then you don’t understand and I’m sorry I can’t help you with that.

Condition to reveal is a bad idea. It would break too many skills which would require revamp across the board and in particular for a thief.

It really immaterial to other classes which is why they so readily make the suggestion. They do not have the volume of stealth based skills the thief has nor are they as reliant on them.

Example. Black powder applies a pulsing blind. Why would a thief ever use it if it just reveals him from stealth? It supposed to be a smoke field so the thief can achieve stealth and it in fact defeats that purpose with the blind.

Remember last refuge and how it got so many thiefs killed? The same would happen with traps specifically if Deadly trapper specced. It why they never used traps before. They were a liabilty as Caltrops would become.

Deadly trapper. This skill is supposed to make one better with traps and improve on them . With forced reveal on a condition app it makes the traps a liability and the trait makes 3 of 4 traps worse. (See shadowtrap)

Blinding powder blinds and stealths. It used by many while in stealth to setup an attack. How does that now work with a forced reveal?

Cloaked in Shadow. This applies blind afer achieving stealth. It would seem pointless a trait if it just reveals again due to the blind.

Other examples abound.

It was suggested that in order to force reveals on application of conditions damage components be added to an application of the same on those where it does not exist. This whould make Ghost thief even deadlier as a single steal could be set up to load a whack of conditions wherein after applied the thief can just camp in stealth and wait for next steal cycle, This would allow the thief to apply as many if not more damaging conditions in one single attack than a Ghost theif using the multitude of attacks could do.

This would ultimately end with people drawing the conclsuion that steal and venoms are OP and call for those to be nerfed.

Damaging conditions. Damaging conditions should cause reveal. Blind doesn’t deal any damage so why on earth should it reveal you?

We obviously couldn’t use the entire Guild Wars as a fractal, but individual encounters/events in the Guild Wars could be used. A prominent fight between 2 or more of the more powerful guilds. Or when King Doric went and pleaded with the Gods to stop it, or even when Abaddon started the whole thing could all be good events from the Guild Wars to make a fractal out of

OneWordName.3761:

OriOri.8724:

And @Everyone crying about reduced diversity, not really. ANet has the numbers, most of the sigils aren’t being used currently. Just because there are more now than there will be doesn’t mean diversity will be reduced if currently players are only using a small portion of the available sigils

Shaogin.2679:

They have also stated they will be having a balance patch alongside the sigil updates. This is a huge move, but definitely a move in the right direction. You can’t even say they are simplifying things. Go take a look at something like metabattle and tell me all the sigil diversity you see there.

We all mostly use the same crap for everything because it is the best, plain and simple. This is a move to help cut out on the random proc damage and effects, get rid of the clutter of useless sigils, and start fresh with sigils that make sense.

Tell me, what sigils are you worried to see go that is making this such a big deal for you?

Why remove sigils if they aren’t being used and aren’t broken? If they aren’t used isn’t it wasted effort to remove them? Why even have this conversation? Removing options reduces player choice. You may not use many of these options but I would say I use a good 75% of sigils. And removing entire categories of sigils (kill stacking, condition duration, on crit) simplifies what a sigil is, and can do in PvP. For what purpose? I don’t think reducing power creep is a compelling reason to remove these sigils. If sustain needs to be nerfed, that can be done without trivializing sigils.

To make balancing easier. The fewer options you have, the fewer things you need to consider when making balancing changes. The plethora of sigils we currently have make balance changes much more difficult to predict the outcome of. Yes, a sigil that is trash might always be trash, but if you change 1 trait it could end up synergizing too well with that sigil and be more powerful than they intended.

Fewer options is always better for balancing. That is why ANet decided to heavily limit our skill options in GW2 compared to what players had in GW1. Personally I feel that after these changes go live they will look at runes next, and I hope they do. You say that it removes player choices, but if no one were using it then what choice was actually being removed? One that you never made? Why are you complaining about that?

Reckless? No. Aggressive? Yes, and they admitted that from the start.

Its also anything but unjustified.

The overall goal of such a change would be to also bring resistance in line with protection, and have it only reduce the damage that condis do by 33-40%.

And adding it to food is a bad way to go about this. Stats on armor are a 1 time cost, after you make it you can always use it. Food is always temporary, so putting something as important as condi mitigation (assuming ANet agrees that we need a stat for condi mitigation) into a costly, time limited consumable, would be a huge mistake.

@Greygus – I agree that toughness would be a good stat for condi mitigation. But I don’t want it to be overloaded, so I can see some merit to adding it to another stat.

Shatters need to be traited to apply torment and confusion, I thought this was basic knowledge? If you had paid any attention to my posts, I want applying damaging conditions to cause revealed. Which would make this a non issue in the first place.

OneWordName.3761:

apharma.3741:

The sad part about this is that we won’t see anything till 1st May now which is nearly 2 months away. No balance patch, no sigil changes, runes changes nothing.

Yes, that’s why this is being posted now. It’s a tentative list. It’s here to be discussed because the devs obviously want feedback on it.

Honestly if these changes went through as is with basically no notice THIS patch I would stop playing PvP, at least for a while. It’s not that these changes would be game breaking, but they are unnecessarily harsh to large swaths of sigils and are basically a sign that the developers want this game to be more simple, rock-paper-scissors and that build diversity will probably continue to shrink.

Its the odd balance changes that they should be requesting feedback on, not sigil requests. Well I mean they should be requesting feedback on sigil changes ofc, and I appreciate it, but the just downright off changes to skills should take a much higher priority in discussing them with the community beforehand.

And @Everyone crying about reduced diversity, not really. ANet has the numbers, most of the sigils aren’t being used currently. Just because there are more now than there will be doesn’t mean diversity will be reduced if currently players are only using a small portion of the available sigils

According to the wiki, in GW2 Power Damage is calculated with the following formula

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Condition Damage is calculated with the following formula

Actual damage per second/attack per stack = Base Damage + (Factor * Condition Damage)

Why is it that some people find it so far out there that a simple division is placed on this formula just like there is one in the power damage formula? Change that addition to multiplication, and divide over target’s armor and its a very similar formula to power damage. In fact, it would be identical except with the condition specific stats instead of power specific stats. Another way it could be incorporated would be to multiply that entire formula by 2, and then divide by either vitality or healing power (or toughness, or precision or power or any other stat for that matter even though some make more sense than others). Or you could do something way more complicated than this if you wanted to. But its trivial to add a condi damage mitigation stat into the damage formula for conditions.

I’m not saying that would be balanced, its just a few ways that a condi damage mitigation stat could be introduced to the formula.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Swagger.1459:

You should try to comprehend what I’m asking for before you sling that silly “l2p”…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_

“Armor is a value that is listed on the hero panel. It is equal to Defense plus Toughness attribute, and will determine how much incoming damage will be reduced. Armor does not mitigate Condition Damage or falling damage.”

…Curently there is not a stat to mitigate condi damage… you understand?

power hits instantly for 5k say, and is mitigated to 2.5k say through toughess etc.

condition is 5k over 5 seconds, so it takes 5 seconds to ramp up to 5k a hit, at anytime in that 5 second window you can cleanse the remainder instantly. this is all the mitigation you need.

Cleanses are much fewer than the application of condis now, and with the simplistic LIFO cleansing nonsense, its trivial to add a cover condition and make it so that most cleanses can’t actually cleanse the damaging conditions that you pile up. So this is not a viable solution in the current game.

@Chaba – I never made the argument that because vitality works against both power and condis that it didn’t count as a mitigation stat. You are the one who spouted that off. I was pointing out how it isn’t mitigation versus any type of damage, because it doesn’t mitigate it. All it does is allow you to eat more damage, but it does absolutely nothing to mitigate the damage you do receive.

:O yes a fractal about the actual guild wars would be awesome from a lore perspective!

Specifically, lower the ascended shards of glory price, but leave the other prices alone so that it is more balanced with the price you pay to buy ascended armor from Bling 9000 in the fractal lobby. Numbers are taken from this post

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5y8j5y/comparing_ascended_shards_rewarded_in_season_6_to/

Not only can we not earn ascended shards of glory whenever we want, since they are tied to PvP leagues, but we also get very few now. To get 1,200 ascended shard of glory now, we need to complete they byzantium chest an additional 18 times after completing it the first time, for a total of 3910 pips needed. And this isn’t even enough for an entire set of ascended armor. Assuming that you win every game (100% win rate was never achieved in S5 to my knowledge) and always earn a top stat, it would take you 356 games in season 6 in order to earn enough ascended shards of glory to not even purchase a single set of ascended armor. Season 6 lasts from March 7th, to May 1st, which is 55 days. So, you need to play 6-7 games every day at a bare minimum (remember that I assumed 100% win rate for this) in order to only get 1,200 ascended shards of glory.

Assuming a more realistic win rate of 60%, and also assuming that you always get a top stat we get to 82 pips earned every 10 games, or an average of 8.2 pips per game. Under this assumption, it would take a player 477 games over the season to earn just 1,200 ascended shards of glory. Over the length of the season, this amounts to 8-9 games per day, every single day of the season. And again, this is to earn less than a single set of ascended armor’s worth of ascended shards of glory.

That is just beyond ridiculous Anet. I admit that it was far too easy to get the ascended armor last season, far far too easy. But that was balanced out by the new cost of making the marks. Players now have to spend hundreds of gold to buy their ascended armor on top of earning the ascended shards of glory. Its pure insanity to expect someone to play more than 9 games a day just to earn enough ascended shards of glory to buy a single set of ascended armor. That’s ridiculous.

So I propose that the price of buying the skins remains the same, but the ascended shards of glory cost for buying actual ascended armor be cut in half. This would make it much more realistic for players to obtain enough shards to buy an entire set with a reasonable number of games played every day (closer to 4 a day assuming 60% win rate and always getting top stats) without making it too easy, since they would still need to acquire the marks. I really hope that you guys take this into serious consideration, because as it stands, the rate of acquisition for ascended shards of glory is nowhere near enough to justify the amount needed to buy an ascended set of armor. And just to make the slap in the face bigger, we can’t even earn them all the time, but are limited to only earning them during a PvP league season. So please lower the amount of ascended shards of glory needed to purchase ascended armor by 50%, at the very least please lower it by 25%.

Chaba.5410:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vitality

“More health allows a character to better withstand burst damage and degenerative damage.”

Vitality isn’t a mitigation stat for condis. Whether you have 0 vitality or 10,000, condis will tick for the same damage each tick. A mitigation stat would make them tick for less damage, just like armor makes power attacks hit you for less damage. That’s a mitigation stat.

OP is asking for a stat that reduces the per tick damage of condis. It can be a stat we already have that is updated with this functionality, or a new stat that is introduced, but that is what he is asking for.

Turk.5460:

OriOri.8724:

Distortion is a temporary ivuln, its not even offensive so again I fail to see how it matters. Diversion is a stun, which is offensive, but doesn’t deal damage. Stunning you is fair game, and I have no problem with a class being able to stun you without breaking stealth, because they can’t deal damage. As soon as they deal damage, whether its power damage or damaging condis though, it should reveal them.

Don’t all shatters cause confusion/torment on pretty much any competent condi build…?

They have to be traited to do so, and if the game were balanced this would cause reveal.

I’ve always been for applying damaging conditions to cause reveal. Its the only way to balance everything.

I don’t raid, so me forming my own group wouldn’t do anything. I complain about it because its useless. The people enforcing the meta are the ones who aren’t good enough mechanically to raid. They aren’t good enough to adapt to anything, if it wasn’t in the meta battle rotation they can’t comprehend how it works. These people are a major source of toxicity, and also push away potential raiders who might want to try.

So even though it doesn’t affect me personally, I still hate it because its the cause of toxicity.

NeXeD.3042:

so…. bunkers it is boys…. bunkers it is.

They did say in this thread that when this goes live they want to ship it with cuts to sustain as well. Which is awesome, both sustain and raw damage are currently too high, would be nice to cut down on both at the same time

Perma stealth is definitely a unique mechanic. But ghost thief needs to be nerfed yesterday as it breaks fundamental game mechanics. It should not be allowed to damage you without breaking stealth. Applying damaging conditions should cause revealed, plain and simple.

That aside, its also fairly broken for the class with the highest access to stealth to also have the highest access to mobility, and for it to be allowed to combine both into the same build. Thieves should have to choose between either extremely high stealth uptime, or extremely high mobility. But having unparalleled mobility while also being invisible most of the time is broken in WvW. Its just too easy for them to travel around a map compared to other professions. Again, they should keep both, but have to build for either or, so they can’t take both at the same time.

Similarly, high access to stealth is broken when a thief can deal 10k+ backstabs from stealth. If they want to have high access to stealth in a build, then their stealth attacks should be nerfed accordingly. If they want huge damage from stealth attacks, then they should have to limit their stealth access to do so.

Unfortunately all of that would require a complete rework of the thief class, so it will never happen.

While there are technical limitations that won’t allow us to dye legendary weapons unless the ability to dye weapons is implemented for all weapons, I do think a decent-ish workaround would be for ANet to offer various skins for each legendary where it makes sense, and each skin would just have a different color palette. I can’t imagine it would be that much work, since the models and animations are already created, all the artists would have to do is fine a new color palette that would look good.

Biggest drawbacks are it would still be incredibly limited compared to the traditional dye system. But even if we got say 3 different skins for legendaries where it made sense, that would still allow for some customization. I imagine that one would swap skins by a similar method as to how you swap stats right now.

One of their goals appeared to be to decrease our options for available sigils, so I dont’ think they would go this route as it would increase the available options.

babazhook.6805:

OriOri.8724:

babazhook.6805:

See sigil of Revelation. If implemented in WvW issue solved.

1/4 sec reveal on a 240 radius, that also depends on weapon swap while in combat will no absolutely nothing to even begin to address this issue in WvW and you know it.

You really have a L2p issue and have no idea how this thief works. I can kill stealth stacking with this sigil.

First clue. The length of time revealed is immaterial.

Second clue. In WvW more then one person can use this sigil.

Third clue. A thief has a limited supply of initiative.

Ah yes, let my 240 radius, 1/4 sec reveal that I have to be in combat to use be my saving grace. It must not be possible in WvW for a thief to stealth up out of sight then come out and gank me in the middle of nowhere with no forewarning for me. That reveal will do wonders to stop a 10k backstab from a zerk thief.

Except that it can’t, because I have to be in combat in order to proc the reveal. And with 9 sec CD you have plenty of time to gather the initiative to stealth up again.

This does nothing to counter any thief in WvW much less a ghost thief, where combat doesn’t revolve around points and they can gank you from anywhere, without you ever having seen them. If you reveal ghost thief for 1/4 sec, all they have to do is go straight back to stealth. By the time they react, the revealed debuff will be over. The mere fact that you are trying to argue that this is somehow a counter is ludicrous.

But furthermore, you seem ok that this is the only build in the game that relies on a sigil to have even a chance at fighting the thief. And even then you only get to “fight” for 1/4 sec every 9 seconds before he stealths up again, and that’s only if the thief is stupid enough to be close enough to be revealed by you. This is not ok. Not in the slightest. But keep trying to defend something that is clearly broken, its quite amusing honestly. The “logic” you use is very entertaining.

sephiroth.4217:

OriOri.8724:

sephiroth.4217:

Offair.2563:

Ranger attacks from stealth > revealed.
Engi attacks from stealth > revealed.
Mesmer attacks from stealth > revealed.
Ghost teef attacks from stealth >

Stop coming with this nonsense when its completely irrelevant to the ghost build.

Mesmer has 2 Shatters that can stack quite a bit of condi from stealth while also summoning Illusions for extra condi/dps…
I believe there’s also runes like Balthazar and Perplexity that can stack conditions while in stealth…
Why not have conditions reveal similar to power? That would fix peoples issues no?

The shatters reveal the mesmer, so I don’t understand why this is relevant to the discussion. Regardless, the illusions themselves won’t be stealthed when the mesmer shatters, so you’d be able to see them coming at you for the shatter.

But yes, the best way to deal with this issue is to simple make it so that applying a damaging condition breaks stealth. Its all the change that is needed.

It’s relevant because Mesmer has 4 shatters, 2 of which can be used and not be revealed, Diversion and Distortion on top of that is Mass Invis to cover your shatters and Phantasmal Mage and maybe Illusionary Berserker for extra DPS if you ran Vipers…. Combine all that with your Continuum Split and you could probably be stealthed just as long as a thief + have Alacrity and be able to apply direct damage and still stay invisible…

Same mechanic people complain about but better!

Distortion is a temporary ivuln, its not even offensive so again I fail to see how it matters. Diversion is a stun, which is offensive, but doesn’t deal damage. Stunning you is fair game, and I have no problem with a class being able to stun you without breaking stealth, because they can’t deal damage. As soon as they deal damage, whether its power damage or damaging condis though, it should reveal them.

MI has an almost 2 second cast time for you to interrupt or to get ready because you know something is coming. That is L2P issue if you either don’t interrupt it or if you don’t prepare for a burst to come soon after they use it. The phantasms are not invisible when they are summoned, and even if they get stealth from MI, they reveal themselves when they deal damage, so again I fail to see how this is at all relevant to the discussion at hand. Every source of damage that comes from a mesmer or their illusions reveals the source of the damage. If it came from mesmers, it reveals the mesmer. If it came from phantasms, it reveals the phantasms. The issue at hand is that ghost thief bypasses this balancing mechanic and can deal damage without ever breaking stealth.

Protection should remain power protection only, otherwise it opens up the door for bugs with traits that just buff it versus power damage.

• Resistance should be decreased to 50% damage reduction from condi ticks. If it also allows you to ignore secondary effects from condis (healing reduction from poison, weakness, CD speed reduction from chill, attack speed reduction from slow) then the damage reduction should be lowered to 33-40%.

• Stacks of Stab should be needed to resist soft CC skills, but the stacks shouldn’t be consumed when you get hit with soft CC. So for example if you had 1 stack of stab and got hit with 10 second chill, your movement speed wouldn’t be affected, but you keep the stab. If you then get hit with a knockdown 5 seconds later, you lose the stack of stab, and for the 5 sec left of chill, your movement speed is reduced by 66%. Stab should only affect soft CC, the recharge reduction of chill should remain there.

• Immobilize should be turned into a control effect and countered by stab.

Yes, I am aware that a ton of stuff would need to be rebalanced for this to happen. But I do think this would be a better system overall. Resistance would have its place as the condi equivalent to protection, stab would be the boon you need to resist control effects. Resistance would no longer be total immunity to condis and would finally be balanced in concept. And this also allows for some classes that are supposed to specialize in resistance (read: Revs) to gain traits that improve the resistance they give just like Scrapper can improve the protection it gives out.

Commander tags are not only useful in WvW. Believe it or not, there are other game modes, 1 of which uses commander tags extensively.

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

I like the idea of AR a lot. Its a really awesome concept where you have to progress your character in order to survive jumping through the mists, but I agree that the implementation can sometimes be annoying.

That said I don’t know if I could agree with removing AR entirely, but it would be nice if it was somehow made easier to get AR on your toons once you have reached certain milestones on 1 character. Say once you have a character with +100 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 75% as many +1 infusions to purchase, and once you have a character that has +150 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 50% of the original +1 AR to purchase? That’s just off the top of my head, but something along those lines, where you build 1 character up to 150 AR and it makes it easier to build up others, would be much appreciated. It would make it easier for players to gear up more than 1 character to do fractals, especially if they are different weight classes (since that would make gear swapping impossible, and swapping your infusions every time you wanted to do fractals would get expensive quick).

Maybe. I’m betting more towards a MF recipe or something that will be easy for them to implement as soon as the armor is finished. It was kept in the collection merely to stop progress until development was finished, so it would make sense that its quick-ish to complete once it is released.

I agree that the meta is boring. But you have to remember that in GW2 its self imposed meta. Groups have cleared raid bosses with 10 naked guardians (they weren’t wearing any armor, which severely reduced their health, defense, and damage. I can’t remember if they had accessories or not), groups have cleared the raid bosses with 10 healing tempests (while amazing support, it does have one of the lower DPS), and at least 2 people have soloed the first raid boss on W4, along with a chrono that has been working on soloing VG. Add onto that all of the low man clears where they have 4-5 people.

The meta is 100% player imposed, and frankly its annoying and disheartening. Too many players are inflexible, and don’t care if you pull more DPS on your power reaper than you would on your condi ranger because you know reaper better, they don’t see condi ranger and don’t want you.

Paul.2054:

OriOri.8724:

Why is it that these sigils should be allowed up to 8%, when the other ones are capped at 5%? That’s the opposite of balance. This is creating sigils that are unquestionably better than alternatives, which is something that the balance team should strive to avoid

Let me put it to you this way, because it is a lot more fair in PvP than a 5% damage modifier as your only option.

Lets say we take a semi-realistic scenario like you kill someone in 9 seconds using only a Force Sigil if we take a basic HP pool of something like 18-21k that means it took about 9 seconds to deal something around 23-26k damage if they used their heal and you are using a Force sigil. In that 9 seconds without any extra healing a Force sigil gave you a maximum of 1300 less damage you had to deal to the target not counting condis, buff damage or any damage which isn’t effected by Force if after 9 secconds you simply 1 shot their entire health bar. Right now a Sigil of Air provides anywhere from 800-1500~ damage depending on class, vuln and might stacks on a 3 second cooldown. If you want to remove free damage and you remove sigils like that it’s fine because a Sigil of Air can contribute upwards of 3 times the damage or more in a PvP scenario realistically.

But here’s the thing about Force sigil right. What if you can’t reliably do 26k damage every 9 seconds? What if you can’t even consistently HIT your target every 9 seconds because of reasons?(block, evade, invlun, line of sight, you or they have to run). You start losing a lot of damage in those scenarios because you aren’t even applying any damage to actually enhance. A realistic PvP scenario means you can only deal damage to your opponent occasionally, such as maybe every 3 seconds?, where a Sigil of Air can provide its maximum value without even requiring you to hit for 3 seconds and on top of that it doesn’t require you to actually do a certain amount of damage to get the same damage increase. This is why Sigil of Force is already not used because even in the absolute best case scenarios it’s not that much damage.

The proposed new sigils for most classes would not even be 5% damage at all times meaning they will be even less useful than a Force sigil is now. The sad thing is it’s not even that the Sigils don’t increase your damage enough. It’s that the condi sigils still increase your damage by a lot and the utility sigils don’t fit the playstyle of a lot of builds. If you just completely removed sigils or made them purely not increase your damage in any way outside of synergy then it would be fine. Instead we have kitten like a condi class being able to pump out a 560 dmg Bleed every 3 seconds not even counting condition duration or might stacks. Like why is this even fair when you gut all the other options we had.

I understand that the new sigils of compounding and punishment are not all that great, I wasn’t trying to argue that they were. I am well aware that most of the time the bonus will be less than 5%. But that dodges my question.

Why introduce 2 new sigils that are almost the same thing, but then introduce a guaranteed 3% bonus damage, on top of the 5% that can stack. No one would ever, ever use the sigil of compounding or of punishment, because they could pick another sigil and have guaranteed 3% bonus damage on whatever compounding/punishment would have given them.

Same thing with the one that gave 8% extra damage from attacking from sides/back. No one would ever take compounding or punishment over this one, because this one is guaranteed to give a substantially higher damage bonus as long as you can maneuver correctly. The sigils aren’t balanced against each other.

Should the damage bonus be raised to 8%? That’s a different issue about whether the proposed sigils are too strong. But simply putting in sigils that are clear upgrades over others is not how to achieve good balance, all that will do is guarantee that 1 of those 2 new sigils would be in play, and the ones they improve on would never be used.

babazhook.6805:

See sigil of Revelation. If implemented in WvW issue solved.

1/4 sec reveal on a 240 radius, that also depends on weapon swap while in combat will no absolutely nothing to even begin to address this issue in WvW and you know it.

morrolan.9608:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

Lol really?

Hope you’re joking.

There are 2 different DPS types in the game. Power and Conditions. Both are meant to kill at the same rate. Just different applications.

They aren’t meant to kill at the same rate. Condis are attritional, its why a lot of condi gear stacks defensive attributes, so they can survive long enough for the condis to work.

I don’t believe this is the case any longer. Conditions have been buffed to the point that a well used condition bomb can down a class or nearly so in a few seconds tops. This is especially true in WvW where confusion uses the PvE damage formula.

Eddbopkins.2630:

Fine don’t give full immunity to condis. But why should there be no stat to mitigate condi damage like how there’s stat to mitigate physical damage. Why does condi get a free pass to do 100%damage 100% of the time? When there’s so much out there for physical damage. Your complaints don’t stand up at all when the immunity is only TEMPORARY

Resistance is a boon not a stat. But I do 100% agree that we need a stat that reduces the damage that conditions do. It could be toughness, with different scaling than it uses for power damage reduction, or it could be another stat like HP or vitality like some people have suggested. I fully support improving 1 or more stats to reduce the damage that conditions do to players. And I fully support massively scaling back condition application, along with a proper cleansing hierarchy for conditions. But I cannot support resistance in its current form. If it isn’t nerfed, the game would be better off without the boon at all.

@Eddbopkins – You can invuln through condition ticks the same way you can invuln through power damage attacks. Again, the same negation technique works against both power and condi attacks.

And like Tricare pointed out, endure pain is an awful example since its part of a 2 stance combo Warriors have. 1 stance made them invulnerable to condition damage, the other to power damage. They are perfect complement stances.

Resistance is way too powerful to be kept in the game in its current state. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but its way too strong to be a boon.

Anonymouse.4760:

Most importantly, there needs to be sigils that work well for other classes.

For example

sigil of sleight “increases damage dealt from the side or behind by 8%”
which would work nicely for a thief.

sigil of judgement “increase your damage dealt by 3% +1% for every boon you have” ( maximum of 8% )
this would work nicely for revenants

In this way you have control over the damage modifiers you receive, and aren’t at the mercy of whether or not your necro condi bombs a target or if your target is a boon heavy class or not. This promotes more reliable and less RNG gameplay.

Why is it that these sigils should be allowed up to 8%, when the other ones are capped at 5%? That’s the opposite of balance. This is creating sigils that are unquestionably better than alternatives, which is something that the balance team should strive to avoid

Eddbopkins.2630:

Tricare.2946:

Eddbopkins.2630:

When u have 10 stack of confusion 8 stack of torment slow, bleed, and what ever condi already on you how is dodging going to mitigate the damage? How is a physical invuln like ele focus earth 5 supposed to be effective how? So evade block and blind does not mitigate the condis like how they mitigate physical damage

You evade the attack that would stack 10 confusion on you. Same way you would evade a physical attack. Not a hard concept to follow.

There are so many skills being thrown around in combat…To pick out the suttle nuance of that pacific skill/animation is a laughable matter to consider. Specially when most of necro utility condi menuveare is just a wave of the arm dodging such inconspicuous motion make your side of the argument sound like you have very little experience in a actual PvP or 2-10man combat

Also physical attacks don’t usually do 15k+ damage over time or instantly in the case of confusion since there’s no icd. It’s mostly in realm of 5-10k damage.

Using this argument, you can’t be expected to block/evade power attacks either. So either way, your argument above is moot. Either you can block/evade attacks (which does include both power attacks and attacks that apply conditions), or you can block/evade no attacks due to the chaos of a fight.

Either way, your mitigation skills versus conditions are still better than your mitigations versus power damage, and that is before we even talk about protection and resistance.

I highly doubt it will require doing more raids unless a new collection tier is unlocked. It seems silly to require only a single item from an unreleased raid when every raid previously has had several items that work towards the collections.

It really depends on how you play. With the collections, I can pay 5 gold up front to unlock it, and then forget about it. The collection fills up while I play the game normally, I never have to dedicate time towards hunting for gold or anything outside of the few items that require talking to NPCs (but I enjoy those personally). By the time I have the non crafting portions of a collection finished, I have gathered a substantial portion of the mats required to do the crafting.

As someone who hates gold farming, its a much more enjoyable process to gather a precursor, even if it is a bit more expensive.

The Game Slayer.7632:

zinkz.7045:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Nah, conditions were never meant to be a primary source of damage…

Nonsense.

Well if you bothered to read the entire comment, you’d understand the point. Allow me to re-iterate so you can understand.

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

You make this claim, and yet you ignore the fact that condition builds have been buffed to the point of competing with power builds. Like it or not, the devs do not agree with this statement anymore. Otherwise we wouldn’t be in a place where a condi bomb from a mesmer could down you in 1 sec.

Conditions are a valid way to deal high damage in this game. get used to it, because its how the game has evolved.

Eddbopkins.2630:

When u have 10 stack of confusion 8 stack of torment slow, bleed, and what ever condi already on you how is dodging going to mitigate the damage? How is a physical invuln like ele focus earth 5 supposed to be effective how? So evade block and blind does not mitigate the condis like how they mitigate physical damage

See Tricare’s response. Why is it that people think blocking/evading a power attack is a simple concept, but when it comes to conditions they forget that you can almost always block/evade the application of them as well? Its the same concept, doesn’t matter if its a power attack or condition attack.

Yes, in WvW conditions are overperforming. That’s a problem with conditions, it doesn’t mean that resistance is in any way balanced.

Rev is the newest class and as such has the flashiest skills in the game. However I personally find it to be the most boring class to play in the game, regardless of game mode.

Aside from that though, I find the visual effects on skills in this game to be quite amazing. Each class has a specific palette that its skills use to give each class a distinct visual style. For instance: Mesmers are pink, Necros are Green, Guardians use a lot of blue etc…

I will also add that even though the visual affects are great regardless of class, some class do have fewer effects on their skills due to the nature. I feel that Warrior and Thief have fewer effects on their skills overall, but they are still visually awesome.

@Acandis – Evan said in this thread that the reveal would be around 1/4 sec long. And 240 radius is quite balanced considering the plethora of stealth access.

They also said Sigil of Lethargy wouldn’t be implemented, so no need to worry about that one

Anonymouse.4760:

OriOri.8724:

Anonymouse.4760:

Why are there only 3 on hit sigils? As a thief main I don’t understand why we get three options all three of which I would never take. Our only on hit options simply do not compete with the multitude of on swap sigils. If you’ve ever watched a single one of the tournaments you hosted that had a thief in it you’ll notice he stays in DP or staff for the entire duration of the fight. So what, we get to have 3 stacks of might and 3 stacks of vuln in a prolonged skirmish? No thanks, guess we have to run some on swap sigils that we will only get use out of once every fight if we are lucky.

You should consider yourself lucky, they initially weren’t going to keep any on hit sigils in the game. 3 is not a great variety, but it is better than none.

I think though that they are trying to gently nudge people away from camping the same weapon. Obviously a better way to go about that is redesigning skills such that it isn’t beneficial to stay in a single weapon set for the majority of the time, but that is significantly harder to do than just removing on hit sigils.

I don’t think you understand. Why would I consider myself lucky when I already said thieves arent going to use any of the three on hit sigils. Staying in the same weapon set
Is part of thiefs design, albeit the purpose of having initiative instead of weapon cooldowns. Thief has taken shortbow off hand because of its utility in conquest since the beginning of the game and that will never change.

You should consider yourself lucky that you have any on hit sigils left, considering they were almost removed entirely. And just because that is a part of thief’s design (hint, it actually isn’t. Otherwise they wouldn’t have a second weapon set) doesn’t mean its good design. I do think the team is trying to nudge people away from camping a single weapon set.

@Artaz – If you think no one has explained why resistance is broken then you haven’t been reading the same threads I have. Its obviously broken.

@Eddbopkins – You can also evade, block and blind the skills that apply condis. So this argument is always moot.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. On the other hand, they have been known to leave unchanged a lot of things noone was satisfied with, just because they didn’t want to admit to making a mistake

Can you name one thing no one was happy with that they did not change?

While you are being overly pedantic in that with such a large playerbase, there will never be a change that everyone likes, nor one that no one likes.

That said there are a few things that have had an outpouring of negative feedback that haven’t been changed.

Cal Cohen.3527:

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

Evan, these ideas are good and I like balancing sigils. However you have to realize how much this change impacts Balance. Removal of blood/air/fire may be a good idea in theory, but it will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce ALL damage in this game. That will inheritantly buff condi classes and sustain builds. These are the implications:
Druid and scrapper are stronger again due to direct damage basically not able to kill them any longer.
Guardians will be utterly unviable (rip me) since a significant amount of damage comes from crit sigils.
Necros, warriors, mesmers will be gods again.

Basically you might take thief since pulmonary is God mode, but besides that it’s all tank +condi builds.

I like the direction this ATTEMPTED to make but the effects on balance are far too significant for pvp to be healthy following a patch like this.

Oh well time to welcome the necro+warrior overlord meta.

We’re definitely aware of the impact of removing sigils that create free damage, and are looking at sustain nerfs that will ship at the same time as the sigil update.

Do you have a timeline of when this update will ship? Will we see it during S6? Before S7? End of 2017? When?

Anonymouse.4760:

Why are there only 3 on hit sigils? As a thief main I don’t understand why we get three options all three of which I would never take. Our only on hit options simply do not compete with the multitude of on swap sigils. If you’ve ever watched a single one of the tournaments you hosted that had a thief in it you’ll notice he stays in DP or staff for the entire duration of the fight. So what, we get to have 3 stacks of might and 3 stacks of vuln in a prolonged skirmish? No thanks, guess we have to run some on swap sigils that we will only get use out of once every fight if we are lucky.

You should consider yourself lucky, they initially weren’t going to keep any on hit sigils in the game. 3 is not a great variety, but it is better than none.

I think though that they are trying to gently nudge people away from camping the same weapon. Obviously a better way to go about that is redesigning skills such that it isn’t beneficial to stay in a single weapon set for the majority of the time, but that is significantly harder to do than just removing on hit sigils.

This is beyond ridiculous. Diamond Skin was not changed because of Resistance, otherwise Resistance would have been given to eles in some way shape or form, yet it wasn’t.

Resistance is extremely broken, always has been and always will be in its current state. Regardless, your insistance on defending such a broken boon is irrational, so I won’t be continuing this “discussion” any longer.