Guild Wars 2

Nhalx.9735:

Condi engis were a problem before the meta shifted to Hambows etc. But no one used them anymore because of the meta.
The problem was still there.

As most people have been mentioning Balthazar Rune needs a slight tone. Same for Burn as a whole. the damage is out of control for the ticks a burn does.

Just reducing the base condition tick on burn would be enough.
You already gave guardians a % tick increase on it. if it scales properly guardians will not notice a thing.
As for everything else. not much to say.

I don’t think that reducing the strength of burning as a whole would be the most beneficial fix to the current problem. The main issue is that condi engis have taken a whole new level of broken because of balthazar and the sigil changes. Any nerfs to anything but balthazar or sigils with regards to engis would probably harm other classes unintentionally

While it’s really difficult to fix sigils on engis, it’s not the serious issue. Balthazar runes giving a burn duration that was impossible to achieve pre-patch, even with major sacrifices in your build, is the main issue.

There needs to be a swift nerf on a-nets part to these runes. I would take care in calling for nerfs to engis before these are fixed. It simply has too much burn duration in addition to the condi damage. I would hope that they consider nerfing the burn duration to 15%. Even better would be converting balthazar to a power rune like it was previously to prevent the condi it supports from getting out of hand.

With even a 20% burn duration and condi damage balthazar would be overpowered because it would make IP tick for 6 seconds at a 50% total burn duration for explosives engis.

Until they do something, prepare your anus for engis everywhere…

This is getting old isn’kitten it’s been almost a year now and we still are suffering a-net. Why do you do this?

BlackBeard.2873:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Well it’s the hardest, most common skillshot in the game… It’s also punishing if you miss comparing to what it would do if it hit. Land more grenades, deal more damage. Land none and you may as well be afk.

I’ll agree that landing them does take some skill, but so many engies act like its something that is so hard to do. Its really the same as landing staff ele damage, in that it is telegraphed and has travel time, so you have to know and predict your opponent. That being said, landing grenades isn’t something that takes years of practice is my point. Skill required – yes. Incredible challenge that only master’s can comprehend – no.

The main reason why condi engis are MUCH more broke than before is because of balthazar runes. 45% burn duration = 7s IP. 7s IP wasn’t even possible to get prepatch. 6 second IP required major sacrifices.

Another thing to keep in mind is how the new sigils benefit engis quite possibly more than any other class. Engis have always been able to take the best advantage of on-swap sigils and adding another doesn’t help things.

Honestly at this point balthazar just needs to be converted to a power rune and things would settle down at least a bit.

I agree 100% with this. there is no sacrifice for getting such unreasonably long burns (and even just 4s every 10 was REALLY strong by the time you factored in +30% from Explosives). Combine balthazar with sigils and traits that instantly give tons of cover condis, and a profession that once required skill has just become faceroll due to its extreme power.

It’s faceroll at the moment for sure. But comparing staff ele damage to nades is a little overboard…

Dee Jay.2460:

But it’s a pretty broken class without any real counters. I’m not just talking about sPvP here which they have already turned into a mockery but WvW as well. I have mutiple classes and multiple builds and NONE of them can deal with an Engineer.

WvW is an entirely different beast and the fact that you derived your opinion of condi engis from WvW is crazy. Condi engis in WvW are just stupid, just like the game mode’s balance itself.

BlackBeard.2873:

Hitting grenades on a moving target isn’t really hard, especially fighting on-point. People who main engineer like to pretend there is some black magic behind it, when its really just learning how players move and projecting their location.

Well it’s the hardest, most common skillshot in the game… It’s also punishing if you miss comparing to what it would do if it hit. Land more grenades, deal more damage. Land none and you may as well be afk.

The main reason why condi engis are MUCH more broke than before is because of balthazar runes. 45% burn duration = 7s IP. 7s IP wasn’t even possible to get prepatch. 6 second IP required major sacrifices.

Another thing to keep in mind is how the new sigils benefit engis quite possibly more than any other class. Engis have always been able to take the best advantage of on-swap sigils and adding another doesn’t help things.

Honestly at this point balthazar just needs to be converted to a power rune and things would settle down at least a bit.

Chase.8415:

Keep in mind that if you do not have shoulders or a helm, the base stats are still applied. You only lose the looks.

Ostricheggs.3742:

I have two thousand kittening hours on my engineer that’s level two. Not only do I no longer have the outfit I wanted on all of my characters, I also can’t use a helmet or shoulders in pvp until I level.

You guys really screwed this one up.

Grats, I know you have more than 10 tomes of knowledge.

You’re right, I had 11. I’m lucky I had two experience scrolls as well to level my chars.

It took me a full hour to respec and regear and level all of my characters (4 of which were already 80). That was the point and I believe you missed it. It could have been worse.

I have two thousand kittening hours on my engineer that’s level two. Not only do I no longer have the outfit I wanted on all of my characters, I also can’t use a helmet or shoulders in pvp until I level.

You guys really screwed this one up.

SPESHAL.9106:

The better question is…“Will the game be more balanced as a whole than before?”

Seems to me like they only had to tweak warriors and a few overbudget builds/abilities for several professions to make things pretty balanced.

Instead, they basically did “expansion-level” changes and look to just be exchanging one problem for another. In some cases, they are fixing one thing, but breaking 2 more.

Thank goodness they listened about Perplexity runes in sPvP, but there are a ton of other things in this patch just as obvious.

The main issue is going to be runes and sigils. Since they’re doing a complete overhaul and buffing them to levels that we haven’t seen before it’ll be a major shock to balance.

As it stands we only have a select few runes and sigils that have been previewed, but all of them have had their stats increased by a ton. It’s going to be quite hellish until they do a balance patch, but I guess that’s not too bad considering it’s been hellish with all these kittenty low-skill tanky builds that have dominated for a good 8-months.

If we’re lucky it’ll shift the meta to where lower skill builds aren’t prevalent. If that’s the case, no matter what classes are OP, I’ll be happy. Also, I hope that more classes than a couple have a decent build in the new meta. It sucks when one class is incredibly dominant over the others.

aelfwe.4239:

Josh Davis.6015:

Pyriall.5027:

Josh Davis.6015:

Pyriall.5027:

Let’s see the balance team’s pie charts!!!! Grouch, you don’t count.

Had my image ready and everything.

I feel bad now…UPLOAD AWAY GROUCH!!

Yay!

Mesmer

So groucho you played 3596 tourney and you’ve been top stat 2860 times.

I played 1903 tourney and i’ve been top stat 2727 times.

And ofc you are in ladder i don’t xD

Pro question: how that’s possible?

Pro reply: i have an average of 40% of single arena in 4 men team, that’s what people call “black hole ladder”.

Thx for working on match up and ladders man…

About the top stat thing. They didn’t add that feature until a little while after the games release. It previously didn’t track it so any games he played beforehand aren’t accounted for.

And yea, the matchmaking is pretty crappy because the playerbase is small in pvp ;_;

Mistress Elemental.3750:

I have been playing since Beta. I really, Really, REALLY hate PvP. Clearly you can see that. I have never liked PvP in any game so its not specific to GW2.

Don’t worry, you’ll get dragon next patch. You’re right at the threshold for it!

My bet is condi engi! Take your bets ladies. After about 3 months we can look back and say “told ya so! this TOTALLY ruined the game”

Obsidia.5127:

I know you guys are joking about but there is so many situations where you can avoid getting knocked off etc. It’s the only reason why I support this map because I want people to improve on their awareness. Stealth pulls are quite broken though I admit.
- Collero (Best ‘Scorpion Wire’ World)

I have heard this so much in defense of skyhammer. It hardly reflects reality considering that 2/3 points are right next to a ledge and 3 panels of glass AND the hammer itself is undodgable, unblockable, does a kittenload of damage and is located on a peninsula of ledges with 2 giant glass panels.

There is no amount of awareness that can save you from inevitable insta-death unless you explicitly change classes or builds. THIS is the main problem of skyhammer. Want to play your favorite class and spec in the game mode you queue’d up for? NOPE! You got skyhammer!

The amount of frustration the playerbase experiences by queueing up for a tourney and then being forced to switch from the class or build that they expected to be able to play on a normal map is enough to warrant its removal. That’s not even considering the fact that the map itself is broken as kitten.

also: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/4029479

Leeto.1570:

It is good overall, cause it one of few skillshots this games PVP has.
You need too coordinate good immob chain from one team and coordinate helping the immobilized person from other team to survive.
Things like these make PVP better and differentiate average teams from good teams.
Ofcourse with lack of competition we dont see such things yet and mostly teams just coordinate which point to take and which player to DPS.

Now as Exedore said they should look at skills separately, because some of ways to apply immob are almost impossible to avoid.

This isn’t true at all… Before they introduced immob stacking it was possible to still stack immob, except you actually had to be careful about what immob you used and when since it would override it.

Now it’s all about throwing as much immobilize as humanly possible and kill the target.

It’s a horrendous change and has always been regarded as such. There is no point to it in PvP and there’s no legitimate reason for the change. It has been bad for the game since they added it and they should have removed it in PvP a LONG time ago…

Allie Murdock.8152:

I’m leaving ArenaNet, not quitting Guild Wars. Nice try though.

dat rule bending

Condis are simply insane in WvW small scale. As the number of people you’re fighting goes up condis lose effectiveness because the likelihood that you’ll find a proverbial lattice of AoE condi clear goes up. Once you get to zerg size you may as well just forget about it.

But again, condis are kitten broke small scale. Dat koi cake, toxic focusing crystal and unnerfed dhuumfire loool

manveruppd.7601:

Ostricheggs.3742:

There is nothing worse than being a player and realizing that you cannot do anything to another player simply because his spec is a hard counter. They’ve leaned in this direction for quite some time and it’s a kitten shame to see.

Exactly, and it was also THE ONE THING they said they wanted to change from GW1!

Of course “Build Wars” was never as huge a problem as people claimed in GW1, because it was a team game. If one enemy was a hard counter to your build one of your teammates would have something to take him down. But in GW2 the fighting is balanced around 1v1 and the conquest gamemode mandates splitting, so a hard counter means you just have to run away and get your team to send someone else to deal with that enemy!

This^. The main issue with hard counters is that the game requires some form of autonomy on the part of roamers. Furthermore, every individual fight has lasting effects on the outcome of the game whether or not it’s on point, off point, 1v1 or 5v5. Getting hard countered quite often means losing a game. If you don’t have a chance in hell the game isn’t fun.

Berengar.6951:

I like using koi cake + toxic focusing crystal so that my incendiary powder burn is up to 7 ticks

This. All other food buffs are inferior if you’re running condis, plain and simple.

Static.9841:

Phantom Master.9582:

Static.9841:

Conversely, your post shows just how blinkered you are by your own sense of self-entitlement. Nice job.

What else other than envy causes an individual’s hatred towards the people who earned a superior amount of what the individual wants?

You quite frankly are aware how badly treated these players who’ve dedicated so much of their time to such a flawed game, but you simply brush it off without even giving such as a kitten about it. How childish can you be?

Where did I show this unbound amount of hatred I’m supposed to have? Do you think writing lots of whiney posts about “Oh we’re all going to quit because of this” as if you’re speaking for everyone is going to get anything other than dismissed when it has absolutely nothing constructive added with it? It’s a childish ultimatum stemmed from elitism in a game where there’s a larger playerbase outside of yourself.

How are they treated badly exactly? Are they abused on a regular basis and not fed by Anet and forced to go to bed early? No they’re not getting some kind of reward that they feel they are entitled to and they have to deal with rank changes that will benefit more than them. Grow up, the game isn’t about the individual, if you don’t like it, find another game.

Why should I care about the same 2-3 people crying on a forum and threatening to quit? Go ahead and quit it makes no odds to me, I’ll still play the game and enjoy fighting other players regardless of what my rank or banner may be.

Pyriall.5027:

You’re sick of hearing about it? It must mean that the company is doing something to constantly warrant these posts. Get outraged at them. Stop vilifying the victims!

lol victims? really? My God some of you are petty and self-entitled.

Maybe some of these people would get more support if they weren’t simultaneously trashing anyone at R55 and below.

It’s because we are entitled to some kind of reward for playing this pile of crap for so kitten long. I don’t think you understand just how much true rank 70s have played this game without much of anything as a reward. To argue that we have been rewarded up until this point is quite hilarious.

Most rank 70s share your sentiment about PvP. I don’t think anyone who actually grinded out rank could have played as much as we have without going insane.

It’s hardly “a childish ultimatum stemmed from elitism”. I don’t believe rank is an indicator of skill at all. High rank is an indicator that we’ve stuck through this game without much attention or rewards since release. Then, after participating in the system that they created, not even because of rewards, we are being explicitly punished for it.

How you don’t understand that is beyond me. It’s just simply not fair. Call me entitled. I sure as hell feel entitled for something for my 4 million rank points and 10,000 tourneys when if I did ANYTHING else in this game with that time I would be ballin in legendarys.

Anyways, the rank changes are arguable in their benefit to even casual players. Handing out rank 80 like hotcakes isn’t good design when it’s been unattainable since release.

bring back grouch!

The Kurt.2518:

I guess that crowd control is not balanced between the classes, but skyhammer really isn’t that bad, it feels like people don’t want to stay away from edges but still complain when they fall off :P

I would ask that you take a look at the video at 1:00 in. I knock a guy off the map through the wall, without line of sight.

Also, take a look at the myriad of stealth pulls.

CC doesn’t care about positioning. If you’re CC’d, you can’t position yourself. Skyhammer is build so that there are ways to fall off EVERYWHERE. It’s why the map is terrible and playing builds like the one in my OP is possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/4029479

Nuff said

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

Phantom Master.9582:

Quite happy about the changes, now I just hope the epic rewards will come to the ladders, and no more mindless grinding.

Current Requirements
Rank 10 – 10500 RP
Rank 20 – 54000 RP
Rank 30 – 136500 RP
Rank 40 – 316500 RP
Rank 50 – 796500 RP
Rank 60 – 1621500 RP
Rank 70 – 3421500 RP
Rank 80 – 8221500 RP

Post-Patch (15th April) (Every rank above 38 is now 20k RP each)
Rank 10 – 10500 RP
Rank 20 – 54000 RP
Rank 30 – 136500 RP
Rank 40 – 291500 RP
Rank 50 – 491500 RP
Rank 60 – 691500 RP
Rank 70 – 891500 RP
Rank 80 – 1091500 RP (Equiv of Current R53 70k/75k)

How to make old players with 2kk+ rpnts and thousands of hours plain thrown into trash all quit. Nice move anet…as usual

You can make that 3 million for me. The best part is that they aren’t even going to respond to the issue and just implement it because they don’t give a kitten about it.

Dem ranger games

Zepidel.5349:

Why do I always read that conditions are amazing / borderline OP in PvP? Are these just scrubs spouting this?

My experience with condition specs has been god awful in PvP, let me explain.

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

Necro: their main heal removes every single condition on them and heals them for more depending on how many they had, most use this in conjunction with plague signet to pull all conditions from nearby allies to themselves. well of power turns conditions into boons (you are buffing the necro when you try to deal damage). And there’s some I’m missing I’m sure.

Gaurdian: Can turn all condition on himself into boons, can remove a boon every 10 seconds passively, 2 skills that remove conditions on self and allies on relatively low cds (15 and 20 seconds).

Ranger: With bear pet in my experience they are pretty much shake off most conditions ever 5-10.

Ele: Whenever they are in water form im pretty sure they are just immune to conditions completely.

Thief: Any sword speced thief has a 0 cd condition removal and return, out side of sword their removal isn’t to hard to deal with.

warrior: not much here

engineer: not much without the elixir gun… I think? I’m probably wrong.

All classes seem to have a trait to remove 2-3 conditions when they use their 6 heal.

With a good majority of classes having tons of utility to remove conditions, and with most of them specing for just that in PvP…. how do you deal with it? I tried playing a condition necro, and condition mes, and a condition engineer. But every time I faced those classes my conditions just melt off, or get turned into boons.

A power spec only has to really worry about protection, invuln skills, and blocks. Which are far and few between compared to the amount of condition removal mechanics in the game.

Do I just need 2 git gud? Or is this a real problem?

The only reason why I think you need to git gud is you don’t mention warriors having a kittenton of condi clear and you think mesmers do.

Condis have always been quite good at taking down bunkers with enough sustained pressure. Between that and they’ve always been scary to thieves and most other fast classes. It’s the DPS that you find within teamfights that is the main issue for most condi classes.

Sadly a LOT of classes in the current meta have an insane amount of condi clear. Maybe the lyssa nerf will help? So long as they don’t make melandru 45% we’ll be ok

Caedmon.6798:

Sensotix.4106:

With the upcoming ele buffs and nerfs of other classes diamond skin could actually play a big role in pvp vs condi classes like ranger or necro (especially necro)…

since a 100% condition immunity to a specific sort of damage is a very bad mechanic without counterplay for some classes it should not be in the game

having automated response changed that conditions can be applied but only last 50% as long is a very good idea and is really good for the game

Now let’s check some other traits or skills in the game which have that

Bersercer’s stance: imo it should be changed the same way decrease the cooldown but make it so conditions can be applied with only 50% the duration
Diamond Skin: same thing basically as ar: change it so that it lasts till 75% or 80% of the ele’s hp but only reduce the condi duration by 50%

With these changes and the rest of the upcoming changes i am quite optimistic when it comes to the next months of gw2

Berserker stance is on a 60 sec cd with a 8 sec uptime.Reducing it to only 50% condi duration would make this skill completely useless,espec if meeting a class that’s using +condi duration.Berserk stance is Needed for many warr builds in this over the top condi spamming game,start realizing this.

Zerkers stance is hardly worthless with a 50% condi duration reduction given the fact that it also gives 4 to 5 bars of adrenaline which translates into more condi clear via cleansing ire. This has been an issue forever but seemingly ignored by a-net. I hope that the nerfs to warriors are sufficient next patch. I’d really hate to support a nerf to zerkers stance only to find out warriors suck, but right now you have to intrinsically outplay a warrior when fighting them while they require very little effort to be extremely effective.

On topic though, I agree 100% with the general immunity stuff. Active forms of condi clear are far better for the game than raw immunity at certain HP or “hit one button and be immune to condis loool”. Hard counters are very bad for this game. There is nothing worse than being a player and realizing that you cannot do anything to another player simply because his spec is a hard counter. They’ve leaned in this direction for quite some time and it’s a kitten shame to see.

Iason Evan.3806:

google.3709:

Iason Evan.3806:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

and 1 of the most vocal here is in fact and proven skyhammer farmer.

I hope you’re not referring to me…

Also, another thing I just heard is that people are getting reimbursed dyes for the duplicate dyes they have on other chars… Second rate citizenship at its finest

Second rate citizenship?! You?! Are you whining that you are a second rate citizen? That smacks of super entitlement man and I am a fan of yours. About the dye thing…you are like one of a handful of people that could actually win a Legendary, and you are whining about dye? Wow.

ummmmm put this it this way.

people who invested in dyes, are getting compesated for changes Anet made!

Anet: “I’m sorry you made you buy different dyes for every character”

people who invested in PvP, are Not getting compensated for the changes

Anet “I’m sorry you spent 3k hours in PvP, you’re NOT getting anything, infact! people who played a fraction of what you played, are getting compensated more than you”

That isn’t really a good comparison and totally misses my point. Both the PvE player and the person I was speaking to have access to dye. In fact, I would say that I have gotten more dye from PvP than I ever got in PvE and I have more hours played in PvE, but it’s not like I haven’t played my fair share of PvP(rank 49).

But back to my point that you derailed. My point was about the hypocrisy of calling someone else entitled about dye, when a highly ranked —and highly skilled-- pvp player has had more access to dye through PvP crafting mats than Johnny “PvE Hero” as you so kindly put it. ArenaNet is making PvP better and this thread is all about people arbitrarily picking a rank they think should be bumped up. Those ranks have been picked. If you got past a certain rank, you get bumped up to a different one. ArenaNet announced months ago that this change was coming. I have posted the link on previous pages. I agree that these new chests should be retro-active. I don’t agree however with the some of the hypocritical comments flying around in this thread though. It’s not cool.

The entire idea behind the comparison is the reimbursement of time (which gold essentially equates to gold). I’ll get plenty of dyes from the change, which I find ironic considering I would have even more had I PvE’d to any extent. They actually cared about the reaction of anyone who has an amount of dyes on multiple chars. That’s something I take offense to given that I’ve spent FAR more hours PvPing for the sake of PvPing than doing any game mode for the sake of dyes. If anyone has the ability to gain any amount of dyes then it’s pvers with their vast quantities of gold.

The issue that I was QQing about in my previous post that you railed on was that they are reimbursing anything that might be subject to being kittened over with the coming patch regarding PvE while the only form of reward that I have for my own time spent is getting destroyed.

They did NOT announce that any rank past rank 55 was going to be pointless ranks gained. They indicated otherwise by increasing ranks. They hinted previously at doing away with ranks in their entirety. Then they increased rank points gained which greatly sped up ranks which implied they were fine with the current system given they increased rewards to make them more attainable.

They left us totally in the dark over their final decision, which kittens rank 70+’s more than anyone else, until the last ready up. That is why you see these QQ threads pop up.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

and 1 of the most vocal here is in fact and proven skyhammer farmer.

I hope you’re not referring to me…

Also, another thing I just heard is that people are getting reimbursed dyes for the duplicate dyes they have on other chars… Second rate citizenship at its finest

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

funny how some rank 70+ players conflict each other what they want. those 2 to 4 rank 70+ players screaming that only them should reach rank 80 will get no support besides from them. and those who are thinking of other way they can be compensated have my support instead of this same people who are arguing and conflicting each other. i agree to what marvin, jose, and ostrich have said they need to be compesated more like extra chest and maybe unique titles or finisher. (seriously not all players cares bout how few other have extra cosmetic) but those who says rank 70+ players only one who will reach rank 80 should realize its for the good of many not just few. stop being selfish and greedy

Ironically enough it’s not the rank 70s screaming for dragon for the most part. I’m pretty sure at this point we all realize the goal is unattainable even for us.

Hitting rank 70 is about 30% of the total rank points needed to reach 80. That’s a problem and something that a-net obviously seeks to fix.

But no matter how you cut it, anyone who spent even a second in pvp above rank 55 is being punished for playing the game. It’s like arena-net saying “you guys were hella stupid for playing this pile of crap for so long!”.

At this point I don’t expect they’ll do anything about it or reward those who’ve played longer than the rest. I think that the fact they haven’t responded to the entire situation is a good indicator of that. I figure that they hope that once the patch hits everyone will forget about it and carry on with their fancy, nearly ubiquitous, dragon finishers.

sirflamesword.3896:

Ostricheggs.3742:

They have shown no inclination to reward skill. That’s especially the case when any mouthbreathing kitten can farm AC every day, run around completing the map and earn a legendary

It’s the simple truth that time spent in game is rewarded. I never said I liked it this way, but to ignore reality isn’t healthy. Skill is almost never rewarded in anything except high level tournaments (which is arguable in and of itself given the current meta)

So would you rather them continue to reward time over skill instead of working towards making an environment that would reward skill over time? Because ranks were never going to be a measure of skill, the only way to do that is reward tournaments, leaderboards, and “seasons” of some sort. That’s the foundation I see them heading towards. It doesn’t really seem like it because they aren’t adding anything with this feature patch that you “hardcore pvpers” enjoy. But that’s because it’s aimed at bringing people in from other game modes to actually have an active pvp population, so that they can implement everything else.

If they skipped right to major tournaments, leaderboard rewards, and season without increasing the active pvp base it would be worthless. You would have the same stagnant pvp players fighting each other over and over, I can’t see that being fun for anyone. But what do I know, I’m not a “hardcore” pvper. Of course that might be because there has been nothing to get me to spend all my time in there.

I understand what you’re saying and I’m perfectly fine with it if it ends up making PvP better. That’s all I care about at the end of the day.

But if they disrespect the players that have been loyal to the game for the longest time, how can you expect them to make the game a decent place for you to spend your time?

Actually, instead of an apology, could I get a skyhammer pass for solo queues please?

Uhtameit.2413:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Uhtameit.2413:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Uhtameit.2413:

He makes a fair point with the glory though.

THe glory system that actually gave decent rewards was in for about four months, of which I was able to spend 300k glory on mainly skins for pvp which I will now be able to buy for 2 gold each (lol, quaggan weapons).

The chests you want so bad will mostly have Tomes of Knowledge in it, and you can buy those at the vendor with the mountains of glory you have. I’m not saying your claim is not legitimate since the old chests were very bad, but it’s a fair point nonetheless.

I didn’t have mountains of glory before the reward system came out and I don’t have mountains of glory right now, lols

I don’t know what you did with it, given the not-so-numerous possibilities you were offered, but alright \o/

I made dyes and gave them out to random people because I had them all on every character already ;_;

Uhtameit.2413:

He makes a fair point with the glory though.

THe glory system that actually gave decent rewards was in for about four months, of which I was able to spend 300k glory on mainly skins for pvp which I will now be able to buy for 2 gold each (lol, quaggan weapons).

sirflamesword.3896:

Ostricheggs.3742:

You’re playing the wrong style of game then bud. Time sinks always get rewarded in MMOs. Also your 1500+ hour assumption is off by about 8000+ hours or so. Just saying.

Maybe they don’t want GW2 to be your average “Play till you die of old age to get this shiny” type MMO. I guess the last 16 months or so have led you to believe that’s what they wanted, but I’d like to hope they finally see how wrong it is to reward time > skill. It’s kinda funny you and the ~10 others that I know mainly got to 70 or close to it in tourneys were the only reason I felt rank60-70 deserved more rewards when this went live. That feeling has gone away. Maybe you will all gain rewards based on your ranks, maybe not. At this point I don’t care, maybe this game needs a new set of “top players” , and hopefully the changes will bring them in.

Edit: Bad Engrish.

They have shown no inclination to reward skill. That’s especially the case when any mouthbreathing kitten can farm AC every day, run around completing the map and earn a legendary

It’s the simple truth that time spent in game is rewarded. I never said I liked it this way, but to ignore reality isn’t healthy. Skill is almost never rewarded in anything except high level tournaments (which is arguable in and of itself given the current meta)

Jaxom.7310:

If the person is, say r80 vs r55, they have earned 25 more chests already than the r55 person. On top of that, they earned glory (until recently) which they were able to spend and get more chests at the vendors. But these r55 people being pushed to r80 will only get those 25 chests, they won’t get all that glory to spend on chests or whatever else at a vendor.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rank

No they have not. You are obviously new to pvp if you think that. The chests were just recently added last month. In that month I’ve earned ONE rank and seen ONE chest. 70-71 is 450,000 rank points to rank up.

The cosmetic items and glory that I’ve previously gotten are literally a pittance for the time spent in pvp when you consider a vast majority of the skins can be bought for under 20 silver. Insinuating that people have been properly rewarded up until this point in pvp is just undeniably ignorant.

Jaxom.7310:

Right and those players at r70+ got glory, which these r55 people won’t, and that glory could have been spent at the vendor on items such as skill point scrolls and tomes of knowledge.

The vast majority of legitimate rank 70s have spent their time in pvp since day one. That reward system accounts for a small percentage of time played. Previously we were only rewarded with dyes that we may as well farmed in pve given the old salvaging system.

Iason Evan.3806:

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

Iason Evan.3806:

We knew this was coming and that coupled with ArenaNet’s propensity for iteration and the game always shifting, this can’t come as a surprise (or shouldn’t at least) to you.

It’s not that we didn’t know it was coming. It’s that the rescaling is too large. It erases too many distinctions that we’ve come to recognize, understand, and even respect. A lot of us above rank 50 were anticipating something far less drastic; e.g., making it easier to rank up between 60 > 80; or making rank 70+ the new rank 80.

Giving everyone in their mid 50’s dragon and removing any further progression is just not healthy for the game; it’s not healthy for dedicated players or casual players.

I know a lot of you want to argue we’ll get better progression from leaderboards and rank up chests, but think it through. The tpvp leaderboards aren’t the best indicator of skill or performance. A lot of our success is determined by an imperfect matchmaking system, the teams we group with, the hours we decide to play, whether we’re using ts or not, what build we feel like playing, and so on. And let’s not forget the fact the leaderboards will be reset by the leagues and ladders system, and every few months thereafter; erasing even more of our intangible “progress.” That leaves those of us who want to pvp with essentially pve rewards (rank up chests + achievement tracks).

I’ll admit the rank up system wasn’t perfect, but it was something unique to pvp that gave us a nice long-term goal to work towards. Now, we’ll have nothing really.

This is QQ worthy imo and not nearly enough people are kittened off about it.

To think that ArenaNet are just going to stop any form of progression from here on out is frankly asinine. We all have our opinions on the way that we want to see things go, but I think someof the things I was responding to in particular were things I felt were a little on the dramatic side. To insinuate that PvPers are losing something by gaining ranks but losing out on a few chest of which aren’t that good anyways is not that big of a deal when compared to what it will do for the game going forward. I would much rather lose out on a few chests than have to spend another 1500+ hours climbing from rank 49 to 80. It’s a change for the better, and the rewards will get better over time. I for one want to be rewarded for my skill rather than a time sink.

You’re playing the wrong style of game then bud. Time sinks always get rewarded in MMOs. Also your 1500+ hour assumption is off by about 8000+ hours or so. Just saying.

I’m QQing that they’re rewarding those who DIDNT sink time into it and punishing those who DID. I promise you I’ve spent thousands of hours in pvp more than you. You’ll receive more chests than I will come next patch. Is that fair? Hell no it’s not fair. Is it fair I’m quintessentially flushing 3 million rank points? Hell no

Once more, I don’t think the chests are worth it. If you don’t understand why I feel symbolically slighted by them giving more chests to those who’ve played substantially less, when the entire grind is a timesink in and of itself, then I suggest you get some empathy

HPLT.7132:

Seriously what prestige. A r70 player is not generally better than a r60 or r55 player. Team Paradigm were not the highest ranked players and still destroyed every other team with almost twice as much time played. Car Crash is also just about r58 on average and still beat the NA Team 3:0 at PAX despite they were about 10 ranks higher.

And some of the players here gained r70 after the glory amount was increased. Sorry but that took away a lot of prestige that title originally had.

Actually r70 doesnt even show that you spent the most time in the game since these ridicoulus glory changes, skyhammer, bugs and so on.

Edit: But I agree that the rewards a r55 players and a r70 player should be at least the same when the patch goes live on april 15th.

Out of curiosity, how many rank points do you currently have on your character screen? Mine says 3,884,010. That’s almost 3rank points going down the drain next patch.

Yes, I earned my rank 70 after they upped the amount of glory for queues. But that was after playing this game every single day for 600 days straight.

If you say it doesn’t show anything except time spent, I agree. Just don’t try to derail the thread by saying it doesn’t mean squat when you’re not the one getting screwed next patch.

Teo.4239:

Here’s a different prospective….

I’m upset that now that the new changes are coming, I will never be able to get the rank 60 and 70 reward skins now that I’m being bumped to 80.

You did get more rewards for your time investment, Eggs…all that glory you could have spent on winter’s day boxes as well as unlocking rank 60 and 70 items. You already GOT your rewards, why do you want more?

You are recognized by the community for your skills and dedication. This whining about pixel rewards lowers you in my eyes. You were one of my heroes. I used to watch you stream for hours. Get over it, man.

dem wintersday chests that came out 4 months ago sure did make this entire situation seem alright.

And you will be able to get the 60 and 70 reward skins because they’re like 2g max each on the trading post (except for a select few).

It’s called symbolism friend. I never played to get rewarded, but if they decide to reward the players who played less more so than veterans then I have every kitten right to QQ.

Iason Evan.3806:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Solstice.1097:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Solstice.1097:

wait a minute….. if you’re rank 70 that means you already got rank chests for all of those ranks. and you’ll get 11 more on patch day….. so total still 80 rank up chests. A new player going to R80 will also get the same # of chests at the end of the day. Nobody is getting more total chests than you, it’s just that you got yours in the past and they get theirs on patch day.

All in all the amount of rank chests are the same. The real issue here is that for all your playing hours beyond the (new) R80, there will be no recognition or reward.

It has nothing to do with how many chests you receive on patch day and everything to do with there being no clear recognition or goal to work towards past the new R80.

Amirite?

No. I think you’re underestimating how long it took to reach rank 70. Since the patch that actually gave out chests hit, I have received ONE chest because it takes me 450,000 rank points to rank up.

Once more though, most people in this thread are continually mistaking what I’m trying to get across. While everyone knows and understands that high ranks are getting boned, the most symbolic of changes is the fact that rank 55s will receive more rank-up chests to rank 80 than rank 70s will. That is an undeniable fact and I cite a dev in my OP.

At the end of the day I don’t care too much about my lost finisher and 3 million rank points that will just go “poof”. I just want a little bit of respect from the devs. Rewarding rank 55s who get to 80 more than 70s who get to 80 is just the last straw.

what i’m saying is all in all total old system or new system you get a grand total of 80-81 rank chests no matter what system you played under. so nobody gets more chests. the issue is what do you get for your hundreds or thousands of hours playing beyond what the “new” R80 is? Nothing really. That’s the issue, not the rank chests.

Isn’t there still some ridiculous PvP title that nobody has achieved yet? like win 10,000 matches or something? is that the only thing you have left to eventually set yourself apart?

But that’s not true. The chest patch wasn’t retroactive for ranks received. By being rank 70 once that patch hit I’m limited to 10 chests for life until rank 80. That was fine since people actually had to grind their kitten off for em and the rewards are kitten anyways.

What bugs me is the symbolism of getting the D while those who are getting free dragon get more random bullkitten than I do.

I understand your discontent with the system to a degree, but you personally, aren’t losing anything. You are gaining Dragon Rank on the 15th. ArenaNet has a history of this as well. This isn’t a precedent. I remember when they rebalanced the Gladiator ranks in GW1. Before they did that, gaining a rank was akin to wading upstream in a river of molasses with snowshoes on. That update removed the snowshoes. Anyone who has played a Guild Wars game could have told you this. Look what they did to the Survivor Title Track. Remember what happened with the Kurzick/Luxon Tracks? Want me to go on? We knew this would happen in December. They told us it would happen.

TL;DR Rank Bar in PvP=XP Bar in PvE. They lowered the amount of XP we need to get to /rank cap. They deserve our thanks.

They didn’t warn this would happen, they told us they would remove ranks in december. Then they said they would leave the system in place because people QQed. Last ready up they came out and announced THIS system which spawned all the QQ threads that you’re seeing.

And gaining dragon doesn’t mean kitten anymore. It honestly doesn’t. Dragon is practically free now (unless you’re starting PvP fresh, then it’s probably a massive grind to you). Again, that doesn’t matter to me.

And I AM losing something. I’m losing 3 million rank points that won’t be rewarded. Even still I’m fine with that because I think it’ll be better for the game as a whole.

ONCE MORE, I’m just pointing out the disparity in rewards vs time spent playing. You’re severely underestimating how much time a rank 70 spent in pvp vs a rank 55. The only reward difference between the two now is chests received. The rank 55s receive more because they didn’t play as much as the rank 70s despite the thousands of additional hours the 70s spent playing the game, unrewarded entirely for their efforts. It’s the simple combination of all the ways they’re shafting rank 70s that’s bugging me. Most of them aren’t explicit until you look at the chests, which is the straw that broke the camels back for me.

All I want is an apology, plz

Solstice.1097:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Solstice.1097:

wait a minute….. if you’re rank 70 that means you already got rank chests for all of those ranks. and you’ll get 11 more on patch day….. so total still 80 rank up chests. A new player going to R80 will also get the same # of chests at the end of the day. Nobody is getting more total chests than you, it’s just that you got yours in the past and they get theirs on patch day.

All in all the amount of rank chests are the same. The real issue here is that for all your playing hours beyond the (new) R80, there will be no recognition or reward.

It has nothing to do with how many chests you receive on patch day and everything to do with there being no clear recognition or goal to work towards past the new R80.

Amirite?

No. I think you’re underestimating how long it took to reach rank 70. Since the patch that actually gave out chests hit, I have received ONE chest because it takes me 450,000 rank points to rank up.

Once more though, most people in this thread are continually mistaking what I’m trying to get across. While everyone knows and understands that high ranks are getting boned, the most symbolic of changes is the fact that rank 55s will receive more rank-up chests to rank 80 than rank 70s will. That is an undeniable fact and I cite a dev in my OP.

At the end of the day I don’t care too much about my lost finisher and 3 million rank points that will just go “poof”. I just want a little bit of respect from the devs. Rewarding rank 55s who get to 80 more than 70s who get to 80 is just the last straw.

what i’m saying is all in all total old system or new system you get a grand total of 80-81 rank chests no matter what system you played under. so nobody gets more chests. the issue is what do you get for your hundreds or thousands of hours playing beyond what the “new” R80 is? Nothing really. That’s the issue, not the rank chests.

Isn’t there still some ridiculous PvP title that nobody has achieved yet? like win 10,000 matches or something? is that the only thing you have left to eventually set yourself apart?

But that’s not true. The chest patch wasn’t retroactive for ranks received. By being rank 70 once that patch hit I’m limited to 10 chests for life until rank 80. That was fine since people actually had to grind their kitten off for em and the rewards are kitten anyways.

What bugs me is the symbolism of getting the D while those who are getting free dragon get more random bullkitten than I do.

Solstice.1097:

wait a minute….. if you’re rank 70 that means you already got rank chests for all of those ranks. and you’ll get 11 more on patch day….. so total still 80 rank up chests. A new player going to R80 will also get the same # of chests at the end of the day. Nobody is getting more total chests than you, it’s just that you got yours in the past and they get theirs on patch day.

All in all the amount of rank chests are the same. The real issue here is that for all your playing hours beyond the (new) R80, there will be no recognition or reward.

It has nothing to do with how many chests you receive on patch day and everything to do with there being no clear recognition or goal to work towards past the new R80.

Amirite?

No. I think you’re underestimating how long it took to reach rank 70. Since the patch that actually gave out chests hit, I have received ONE chest because it takes me 450,000 rank points to rank up. Personally, I don’t mind that there’s no clear recognition or goal once you hit rank 80. I know a LOT of people will be turned off by that, but that deserves another thread

Once more though, most people in this thread are continually mistaking what I’m trying to get across. While everyone knows and understands that high ranks are getting boned, the most symbolic of changes is the fact that rank 55s will receive more rank-up chests to rank 80 than rank 70s will. That is an undeniable fact and I cite a dev in my OP.

At the end of the day I don’t care too much about my lost finisher and 3 million rank points that will just go “poof”. I just want a little bit of respect from the devs. Rewarding rank 55s who get to 80 more than 70s who get to 80 is just the last straw.

ellesee.8297:

uh at rank 80 it’s 20k rank points to rank up again. you’ll still be rank 80 after but you’ll get the reward boxes again. so actually you’re gonna log in with more reward boxes than any rank 55 will. at least that’s what i got from the ready up stream.

Daishi.6027:

But if your rank points are being scaled don’t you just keep getting more chests for every rank past 80? If it takes the same amount of exp from 31-32 as it is from 44-45 I’d suspect your going to blow out the numbers with it hitting 80 over and over… That’s a lot of stuff. Maybe I misunderstood the live stream but sounds like someone 70+ is going to go “$$ CHUUCHING $$” a lot more than going 55 – 80… I guess you lose out in the prestige but I think the point of it is to set rank 80 as a standard. Keep in mind they were going to scrap ranks all together, I think. This fits with their design choice…. And there is going to be more stuff coming in terms if prestige level beyond that of a tittle and a finisher.

Sure we lose out on the old system but the old system was kind of crappy to begin with, you get the short end of the stick for the sake of progress… But if I think the rewards are going to work the way I presume I don’t think that short end is as short as you think.

Once again, if you read my post you would see that it’s not retroactive past 80. Rank 70s are going to receive less chests for reaching 80 than rank 55s.

gesho.9468:

gosh, how greedy can one be? so you get goodies, but you are sore that someone else got it too.

I think you’re misinterpreting my post. Reread and try again.

Erwin.5603:

I am not sure, if the way you imply that it is gonna happen, is the way it is actually gonna happen. Maybe a Dev can clarify.

read the thread that I linked in my original post.

Evan Lesh.3295:

You will only get a chest per rank to 81. You will not get more than (81 – current rank) chests.

Jaxom.7310:

Ostricheggs.3742:

As the forums are well aware, next patch is bringing free dragon to all! …

This is where I stopped reading and realized you were qq enough to create a new post. There are several threads already open and active for you to qq in. Please go there.

I dont think there’s any single thread made to point out that rank 70s are legitmately being punished because they aren’t being rewarded as much as a rank 55, regardless of how they’re already being screwed out of being ahead of the pack.

The differences in chests gained from 55-80 and 70-80 is an explicit mistake and something I think is thread worthy.

muscarine.5136:

If the rank revamp stays the same, a little something to show off for the people with your rank BEFORE the patch hits would indeed be a nice move.

Never underestimate the power and preciosity of vanity show offs in a pvp environment.

GW1 bronze/silver and gold capes were a perfect design choice before guilds started to sell them.

It’s not even they didn’t think about that. It’s probably too late for them to even make something to replace the cool and exlcusive finishers we’re going to lose.

But it’s the fact that we’re being explicitly punished for being higher rank that gets on my nerves…

As the forums are well aware, next patch is bringing free dragon to all! That’s all well and cool because the current rank/reward system is a pile of crap. As a player who’s rank 71 now, I’m alright with not being able to show off my finisher and all that jazz. I’m even alright with being rank 80 4x over.

The one thing that’s really been bugging me though is the fact that I am going to be punished for being higher ranked than 55 at this point. It simply boggles my mind.

I hate to be the one to play the victim card, but no matter how you cut it anyone who has spent a second in pvp over rank 55 before they added chests is getting screwed. Those who are super high rank, like myself, are just getting the D even harder.

I mean, I partook in the system you created more than most of your playerbase. In PvE and WvW that means something. But because I’ve PvPd I’m now going to receive less rewards than those who didn’t. Honestly it doesn’t matter too much. It’s more symbolic than anything…

Could I at least get an apology? “Sorry for kittening you for playing our game” would be fine :P

Source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/April-15th-Effort-Require-to-Rank-up-in-PvP/first#post3832959

Edit: What I mean is that chests are not going to be retroactive. A player who is currently rank 55 will receive chests all the way up to dragon rank, 35 or 36 according to Evan. Because I am rank 71 I will receive 9 or 10 chests…

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

Just noticed: everyone has as favorite map the FOREST OF NIFLHEL.
(Me too)

If you played before the changes to tourneys to any extent then it’s highly likely that your favorite map is forest. It used to be the first round in 3 round tourneys.

I’ll just leave this here….

zone.1073:

It’s like Neo in the Matrix. Every time the machines release a new version of the Matrix, a Neo-like anomaly is always there, ready to ruin everything. It’s inevitable.

I feel like the devs are taking the correct approach to balance now, though. Community forum feedback is actually being taken seriously, and digested by community devs like Allie and Grouch, and then given to the game devs for interpretation and execution of changes.

The only thing missing is a public test realm, instead of ArenaNet relying on just their handful of 10 internal testers (who are not competitive players…they are same group of people used to test everything: PvE, WvW, and PvP). A public test realm would be an amazing addition to the game, because it would allow devs to “see things out” first before releasing changes to live and affect leaderboards, rating, the competitive environment, etc.

The balance changes that are coming are good, but they’re 7 months too late.

Chilli.2976:

and what about the rank 70 skyhammer glory farmers?

They never dealt with them. Honestly it’s a bit more of a slap in the face to skyhammer farmers since the rank 70s that actually deserve it didn’t grind for it…

Also, sadly they’re never going to even reconsider their compensation. It’s the a-net way. When something gets announced it’s already set in stone. Not apologies, no saying “Woops, you’re right! we kittened up and these players should be rewarded!”. They’re just gonna go forward with what the said and hand out dragon finishers to everyone

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Lux.7169:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

ok guys how many rank 70+ do we have now in pvp? ill guestimate around 20 and that maybe exagerating by a lot. thats a minority even in a really small pvp community we have. your saying that when 15k players who play pvp, harcore or casual who likes the changes have to listen what the 20 rank70+ players want? gtfo

Let me try to put this in perspective for you. I’ve played this game, /age’d, for 5,000 hours. Minus afk and PvE/WvW time I’d guess that’s about 4,000 hours. Four thousand kittening hours in PvP. That’s almost six months IN GAME. I’d guess that I could have every class leveled to 80 with at least 10 legendarys in the amount of time I’ve played this game’s pvp.

If you want your free dragon emote then so be it, I sure as kitten can’t change it, nor do I even care. I find it shameful though that there will be no carrot on the end of the stick for those that do (or did) actually care. I feel even worse for those that spent even a second grinding rank after rank 55.

Just have a little respect for those like myself who are getting screwed. No retroactive rewards, no extra title for hitting rank 70 before it was free, no rewards after hitting rank 80. I have legit never even SEEN one of those new reward chests and I never will. I honestly don’t give a flying kitten that my time spent playing PvP won’t be rewarded at the end of the day. Phoenix was cool for the exclusivity, sure, and it was great for kittening too.

It’s ok, you’ll get 9 chests. I’d guesstimate the value in gold of those chests are… 3 gold.

All of these r50’s rejoicing makes me want to vomit. Like you said, they could at least have a bit of respect and not rub it in.

i dont really care if they make r55+ dragons or not… i enjoy all the game modes. i played 2.6k hours of both pve and pvp combined, did 5 map completion and 4 legendaries, full ascended gear. im not rank 55 i wont be a dragon and sure as hell i like shark finihser better than phoenix. but like i said your a minority of minorities in pvp community. maybe who knows you guys who are r70+ will get precursor in your bag of goodies when you reach r80.

I would like to point out that I am going to get less bags than anyone because I won’t be leveling up as much as others are. In otherwords I’m getting punished for being a higher rank…

A-net sure is listening to those 20 or so rank 70s eh?