Guild Wars 2

Zackie.8923:

Otokomae.9356:

Junkpile.7439:

5 bunker guardians is optimal roaming group

Lol, yes, by all means, let’s bring back the “Immortals” squads to WvW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a81I9BMQhRU

EDIT: In case anyone is pressed for time, that’s a video of 5 Guardians holding a single point against what appears to be JQ’s entire server for over half an hour…

nice, i was wondering when someone would do something like that.

This was part of the standard strategy for Sea of Sorrows when they were moving up from Tier 4 to Tier 1 last year, and part of how SoS managed to hold on Rank 1 in Tier 1 for two straight months. What you see in the video is a pretty maxed out “Immortal Squad” for that time, but the ideal build has had to be reworked since the nerf on Omnomberry Pies/Ghosts. The group you’re seeing in the video was able to get insane healing back when there was no cooldown on the Life-Steal from Omnomberry Ghosts.

There was a lot of QQ about this group back then… lol

It’s a funny coincidence that this thread was started by a Necro (Kelthos is a guildie of mine). Anyway, now that it’s back let’s keep this thread alive for as long as possible, simply for the nostalgia of a time 8 months ago, when this was the kind of thing people worried about in WvW…
(^_^)

People keep saying that guilds will “spread out” once this starts, and that we’ll see more parity as a result, but that’s really not going to happen without some sort of free or severely discounted transfers. Most of the time, when whole guilds are spending thousands of gold or real-life dollars to transfer, they are moving to a server where they feel relatively certain that they will end up in Tier 1. This happened when transfers were free, as well, but guilds were more open to moving down a tier and trying to work their way back up when the transfers were free.

Otokomae.9356:

How’d Maguuma make 2 people’s lists? Aren’t they losing some large guild called [PYRO] this very week?

JQ has been in Tier 1… forever, I guess? But they did get transfers into and out of the server pretty steadily. Still, if by “stability” you mean where they stand in the rankings, I would say JQ and SoR belong on the list, as Rank 4 is pretty much a worst case scenario for each of those servers. Same for BG, really. TC has also been in Tier 2 for a very, very long, so I suppose they belong on the list.

But yeah, it’s really hard to predict reliably how stable any server is after they’ve taken first place in Tier 1; I mean, if this survey had been done in December or January, SoS probably would’ve made a few people’s lists! A month earlier than that, and very few people could have predicted that SBI would implode the way they did. Now that free transfers are over there is a little more stability than before, but it’s really hard to predict what’s going to happen to each server.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Top-5-most-stable-servers/first

Wow… I just went back to that thread for the first time since posting that, and I can’t believe how EVERYONE in this thread latched on to that one, off-topic line about one guild from Maguuma possibly transferring (it’s even in the form of a question!) Anyway, I was just trying to make a point about how hard it is to predict where any NA server will be a few months from now, not about where any particular guilds are going.

Anyway, if that caused anybody in [PYRO] or anyone else on Maguuma any headaches, I apologize. I honestly didn’t see the complete derailment of that thread coming at all. From now on, I’ll be sure to use examples I can verify more easily.

Yeah, give us 2 weeks of the new matchup system, then open Free Transfers for a short time! It’s both a terrible idea and the right thing to do, at the same time…

Join a good WvW guild, and ask for some help. You can probably get most of your gear crafted, as a lot of guilds are prepared to help “gear-up” their new WvW players. Or you can keep grinding out Badges in WvW, and buy all your gear there. You already have all you need for a good mix of Rare and Exotic gear, which will be fine in WvW until you have enough to finish out your Exotic set.

Also, WvW is about to become more profitable, supposedly, as you will be getting a chest each time you rank up. So wait and see what next week brings before you start grinding dungeons for gear, if you hate that sort of thing.

Oh Erawen, like a lot of people here, I too miss your passion for the game and for your comrades. As someone who played on SoS back in Tier 4 and was there as they moved all the way to #1 in Tier, then back down to Tier 2, I can easily recommend this server to anyone looking for a great community (^_^)!

Junkpile.7439:

5 bunker guardians is optimal roaming group

Lol, yes, by all means, let’s bring back the “Immortals” squads to WvW!

EDIT: In case anyone is pressed for time, that’s a video of 5 Guardians holding a single point against what appears to be JQ’s entire server for over half an hour…

How’d Maguuma make 2 people’s lists? Aren’t they losing some large guild called [PYRO] this very week?

JQ has been in Tier 1… forever, I guess? But they did get transfers into and out of the server pretty steadily. Still, if by “stability” you mean where they stand in the rankings, I would say JQ and SoR belong on the list, as Rank 4 is pretty much a worst case scenario for each of those servers. Same for BG, really. TC has also been in Tier 2 for a very, very long, so I suppose they belong on the list.

But yeah, it’s really hard to predict reliably how stable any server is after they’ve taken first place in Tier 1; I mean, if this survey had been done in December or January, SoS probably would’ve made a few people’s lists! A month earlier than that, and very few people could have predicted that SBI would implode the way they did. Now that free transfers are over there is a little more stability than before, but it’s really hard to predict what’s going to happen to each server.

Gab Superstar.4059:

The zergs are just as big in every tier.

There are just more of them the higher you go in tiers.

It’s not necessarily that there are more of them, since maps should hold the same number of people, but as you move up through the tiers zergs do seem to become more and more massive, and it gets harder and harder to find a timezone when you won’t be facing groups of 60-80 roaming every map. In lower tiers with less coverage, you’ll at least find times where there may only be 20 people on an entire map from each server, so even if they decide to “zerg” together it’s nothing like the standard, 24/7 zerging that you see in tier 1.

But yeah, I’ve played since beta, and been in tiers 4 through 1, and the scouting reports for each tier tend to sound like this:

Tier 4: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, camp-flipping group, 10+”

Tier 3: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, zerg of 30+”

Tier 2: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, huge zerg, 50+!”

Tier 1: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, SoR zerg”
“How many?”
“uuhhh… all of them”

That’s not a shot at SoR, btw, you could substitute any current Tier 1 server name there. And I know that there are sizable zergs in every tier now, but in Tier 1 it does seem much more common for groups to full-zerg everything , all the time…

Roll a Mesmer, run a Jumping Puzzle, then have a few guildies advertise on all the PvE maps that you’re giving free Mesmer rides to the top of the Jumping Puzzle, & only asking that they donate some of the siege they get from the chest. Guilds have been doing this since release, and it can often give you 200-300 siege blueprints a week.

A lot of people seem to agree that there’s one thing Anet could do in 10 minutes or less, with NO programming required, that would make a big improvement to WvW: just tell us what the rules are. That’s it, just reveal all the rules and mechanics involved in WvW, and tell us where all the non-PPT points are coming from and how many are actually available. It’s very simple, and one of the most basic things that EVERY competitive game that is played for points does; tell us where those points come from, how many we can get, and how they are calculated.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

We’re actually getting fewer stat combos at the moment, not more; the Ascended gear is currently being used to phase out the Valkyrie stat line, which was already available from only 1, single source in the entire game.

Alcyone.8695:

I’m not really sure why you’re all so excited about learning about the exact numbers for what is on a grand scale a paltry quantity of points.

Please explain how you’ve come to the conclusion that this is a paltry amount of points. In every matchup in every tier, anywhere from 150-200,000 points appear to come from these sources, as the scores are always far higher than the maximum 467,040 allowed from full PPT.

If, for instance, a Yak is worth up to 10 points, that would mean that maximizing the points from Dolyaks could give you as much as 1,440 PPT from Yaks alone. That’s more than double the 695 PPT you would get if your server owned EVERY Tower, Camp, Keep, and Castle in the game!

It looks like someone’s simply going to have to start a new thread asking what the rules are, and how scoring works in WvW, since there’s still FAR too much mystery to it.

Again, this is a competitive portion of the game, after all, and it is played for points, but we still don’t know where those points come from, how many points there are, or how the points are calculated! It’s makes even basic gameplay in WvW very difficult, when you have to “guess” how many points you’re getting for each objective, or you have to do months of research to figure it out instead of actually playing the game, and even then you still can’t be 100% sure.

There have been at least 20 threads asking for this in the WvW sub-forums since release.

Of course, if they added this to a PvE part of the game like cities, there would be an EXPLOSION in the already large number of threads about how overpowered Thief is. Mesmer would probably start getting some new “QQ nerf this class now!” threads as well. But yeah, it could be fun to have some sort of dueling option somewhere.

It’s EXTREMELY easy to solve this problem. Just make Badges exchangeable for gold. We already have an exchange rate set up by the siege blueprint vendors, and this would certainly cut down on a lot of the “WvW doesn’t make enough gold!” QQ.

Oh Anet, just give everyone the classic D&D Ranger like they thought they were going to get back in beta anyway.

In beta, people had all kinds of ideas about how to use Ranger, especially in WvW. It was assumed that after release, they would be the best roaming/scouting class in the game; everyone was wrong about that of course.

The other assumption that many people made was to simply see the name of the class and go "Oh sweet, a Ranger! I can basically just roll one of these and be Aragorn for the rest of the game!?
Nope.

Although there are several good players who’ve made ranger work for them and have gotten very good at using the class, for most players they are still just a Pet with a Bow attached to it. Very good for gold farming (it seemed early in the game that 99% of gold-farming bots were Rangers), but in WvW they’re generally viewed as free bags, which is not always accurate, but there’s a reason for this stereotype. It’s really too bad the pets aren’t optional, or couldn’t have been designed as a “summons” like Necro minions or something, so the Ranger class could’ve been built and balanced without pets, and then simply call out their pets when they need them. As it is right now the pets are inconsequential in most PvP scenarios, but Rangers seem designed to be balanced based on the fact that they have these pets.

Also, I think we can all agree that the current naming system, as pointed out by the OP, makes no sense. This should obviously be changed.

Valkyrie stats are missing from everything, everywhere. They are basically ONLY craftable; according to Wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats) they can’t be acquired through any other source. There are currently no true Valkyrie stat ascended items, either, and Valkyrie stats, as we know them in PvE/WvW (Power/Vit/Crit Damage) don’t really exist in PvP either.

If I had to guess at why they decided to downplay the existence of Valkyrie and make it only available from 1 source, I would say that they probably didn’t realize before release how incredibly OP “Hidden Killer” thieves can be when using full or near full Valkyrie gear, and now they’re using the Ascended Tier of gear as a way to phase out Valkyrie stats. That’s just a guess, it could be just another one of those decisions that we’ll never understand, and which will never be explained, like the crazy Dolyak Rule in WvW.

TLDR: This isn’t a WvW issue, Valkyrie stats are missing from EVERY part of the game except crafting, they are even non-existent in the new Ascended gear.

zastari.1730:

Kai.9182:

zastari.1730:

Kai.9182:

Well that’s the unfriendly way to put it haha. But yes you’re going to have to deny them what they want for a fight.

Otherwise organise dueling sessions behind the Mill on a BL, or sPvP.

Yes you should kill yaks on a map until some commander notices and runs you over with a zergball. Alternatively you can cap supply camps then wait 5 minutes and get run over with a zergball.

And during that time solo players try to stop you killing the yaks? Then when a zerg shows up you run off? If you get hit by a zergball you need to not tunnel vision.

Okay so we agree that the job of a small man / solo roamer is to kill fluffy red meat piñatas over and over. That’s great and all but you’re doing your realm a disservice by killing them solo since the more people that hit the yak the more points you get (and don’t quote Devon’s post saying that’s not true because he’s wrong).

Devon edited his post the next day to say that yes, you DO get more points for each person who tags a Dolyak, though he still won’t tell us exactly how that mechanic works:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first#post1742511

Agreed Coral, it’s big improvement over many other games (^_^)

Making the colors random would make Eternal Battlegrounds a lot more fun, as certain sides of that map are more vulnerable than others.

Does anyone from Anet have a minute to address this over the weekend?

Exactly how does the Dolyak point system work? Is there a limit to the number points your server can get added to the score (NOT WXP, but points) from a Dolyak, and if so, what is that limit? Are there any other “hidden points” we should be aware of in WvW?

Looking for official answers or answers backed up by some sort of real evidence please, no theories, guesses, or opinions.

DevonCarver.5370:

Speaking for myself, I think we need to change some of the mechanics of scoring to more accurately reflect what we want people doing in the game, which would hopefully get us tighter matches……

Rest assured we have top men working on it!

For the love of God, if you change the scoring system or anything that relates directly to the points that are going on the board for each server, PLEASE tell us what the rules are this time, and exactly where all the points are coming from, how many points we can actually get, and how those points are tallied. We STILL haven’t been told how the CURRENT system works!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/page/2#post1774757

Whatever happened to this thread? Still quite a few unanswered questions here…

bcd.4352:

I would agree that it would be nice to know what gives points. I knew about the Dolyaks, which are quite an effective way of boosting your score, besides hampering enemy supply. Dolyak farming works especially well against green in EB because of the water and proximity. I didn’t know at all about the other events giving points.

Well, if you want to get an idea of the effect these points are having on the end of the week score, here’s a little math: the maximum ppt is +695. That happens 4 times an hour (every 15 minutes). Considering that there are 24 hours in and we have 7 day matches:

695 * 4 * 24 * 7 = 467040
That’s maximum total points from a full week’s PPT in WvW, though it’s generally a little lower than that because there is at least a 15 minute gap between resets.

Now if we look at a matchup from last week, say the Tier 2 match here: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/27#EU

The total score from all 3 servers was over 615,000 points! That’s a lot more than 467,040.
Even more shocking, if you scroll down you’ll see that a bottom Tier server, Arborstone, scored more than 487,000 points all by themselves!!! So 1 server is scoring more points than all the points available from a full +695 ppt combined!

And this is happening without any official word on how many points we can gain from non-PPT sources, and as far as I know, there is no concerted effort by any full server out there to really maximize these points. So it’s making a very big difference already, and it’s something that really just needs to be out in the open.

Again, we really just need to know how the WvW scoring system works, and where exactly the points are coming from. How many points is each non-ppt objective worth, what are the point caps for these objectives, and so on. Very basic stuff that you would find in the manual for practically every other game.

Is anyone from ArenaNet available to address this?

RebelYell.7132:

There are plenty of people in dungeons… one dungeon in particular, the Castle of Fire or something, where they farm money, the only thing you’re allowed to farm.

CoF (Citadel of Fire) has been nerfed and changed several times, too; they’re constantly trying to find new ways to make it un-farmable. At one point, they actually went too far and made it nearly impossible to complete, so they had to scale it back to something like the version we have today. But yeah, farming CoF feels SUPER-grindy when that’s the only reliable way to make money, and it’s really no fun at all after a short time. It’s also spawned a no-fun, elitist community of people who will ask you to link all your gear before starting and things like that, as they try harder and harder to reach the elusive “9 minute run”, which if they can approach that, they will then repeat it until someone in the group finally passes out.

So… that’s where we are now.

P.S. – I do think that they way they fixed the loot from dragons and other big events is very good, btw, and I like the once a day timer on those. But there’s still no reason to take away every other farmable part of the game.

Let’s try to stay on topic here, please…

Well, the movement in WvW lately has been to play for fun and to ignore the score. This comes partly from the fact that “playing to win” generally requires that most of your players run around around in a massive czerg, and is compounded by the fact that 1/3 or more of each week’s score in every match is still coming from some mysterious, unexplained source (at least officially it has not been confirmed or explained). Until ArenaNet can officially explain in detail how the scoring actually works in WvW, I feel like adding greater rewards would only make the game more frustrating for many players.

Are you talking about using the “death nova” to try to wipe a zerg? If so, thank you for a hilarious post!

Burl.9567:

DevonCarver.5370:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Fror.2163:

It’s a fact not really well known over here, but Glicko 2 works better when the same opponents don’t fight every week. It is sane to have the lower ranked guys sometimes play against middle-ranked guys as a kind of “poll”, just to check that the lower guy has not improved his skills.

While that makes sense in theory, it would result in matches that are total blowouts and where most of the player base drops out early in the match.

Which would not be fun and not really give you valid information. Also, every blown match results in a few players quitting WvW altogether.

That’s our current assessment as well, which is why it’s going to take more work to decide what we really want to do here. Speaking for myself, I think we need to change some of the mechanics of scoring to more accurately reflect what we want people doing in the game, which would hopefully get us tighter matches. There are any number of possible ways to deal with this however, which makes it a paradox of choice to a certain degree. Rest assured we have top men working on it! And me. :P

One thing I think that would be cool is to incorporate player kills/deaths into the scoring in some fashion. When a group of 20 wipes a 60 man zerg, they should get something for that. Perhaps for every 10 deaths your server receives in WvW, you lose 1 point from your score or something along those lines.

If it requires that an outmanned group wipes a larger force for points, that’s one thing, but otherwise this system HEAVILY favors that 60-man czerg you have listed above; for every time that group of 20 wipes a 60-man zerg, the 60-man czerg will likely wipe dozens of groups of 20 or so, giving them an even larger lead in the score. We have enough things built into the points system to give bonus points for zerging already:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

DevonCarver.5370:

Interestingly enough we just were discussing this with Habib, master of all things WvW and I think we will do this soon, if it is as easy to do as we hope. It will just make things a little more interesting.

Thank you!
(^_^)

Again, this thread is NOT about WXP. There are lots of other threads about that subject. This thread is about the actual points that contribute to the server’s end-of-the-week score.

Alright, this subject REALLY needs to be cleared up by someone official from Anet please. This thread is getting cluttered with misinformation and people simply reposting the same old theories again & again with NO real evidence to back up their theories, or off-topic things like WXP, and it’s just adding to the confusion.

Once and for all, can someone from Anet please tell us exactly how the Dolyak point system works? Is there a limit to the points you can get from a Dolyak, and if so, what is that limit?

This is a competitive portion of the game, after all, and it is played for points, but we still don’t know where those points come from, how many points there are, or how the points are calculated! It’s makes even basic gameplay in WvW very difficult, when you have to “guess” how many points you’re getting for each objective, or you have to do months of research to figure it out instead of actually playing the game, and even then you still can’t be 100% sure.

PLEASE address this issue when you have time, ArenaNet (^_^)

I dont’ see any 6k hits here. There’s a 5k hit, is that what you’re talking about? And there’s only 1 of those, not 2. Also, the Reveal cooldown prevents a Thief from landing Backstab more than once every 4-5 seconds max, so you certainly didn’t take 2 of those hits in 2 seconds.

Axes, Swords, Greatswords… they’ve all got Glowing purple version (of the Mists series), the Elemental Summons version (Titan’s Vengeance axe actually looks great in gameplay, even if the preview is less impressive), and all kinds of unique Mystic Forge recipes. Daggers have 2 known Mystic Forge recipes that look nearly identical; they’re both tiny icicles. That’s about it. Other than that, Daggers have the standards like Corrupted or Destroyer versions, but nothing unique except the icicle version, which are pretty expensive to make considering how silly they look to most people (if they can actually see them). Why can’t we at least get a “Dagger of the Mists” or a Whisperblade style Dagger? Don’t Mesmers use daggers? Or one of those glowing blue weapons that the ghosts of Ascalon use; do they use daggers ever? Dagger users will take just about anything at this point.

Yeah, this game really is moving backwards in terms of how people make gold, etc. We have this lovely Manifesto with Colin Johansen saying “We don’t want players to grind in this game, no one enjoys that.” Then the game starts to require more and more grinding with each new patch, as every inflation runs rampant, new currencies are added (constantly!), new gold sinks enter the game (there was no shortage here to begin with), and every area where you COULD make money, be it gold or karma, gets nerf after nerf placed on it, so that prices constantly go up while our ability to make gold goes down. And no, prices going up does NOT mean that all of our incomes increase accordingly; this only works for a minority of people in the game who made tons of money early on or who spend 1/4 or more of their game time just playing the Trading Post. The non-stop inflation in the game means that gold I made yesterday is worth less today than when I made it (and new currencies make it worse), and constantly nerfing any mildly farmable area in the game means that it’s harder to make money now than it was yesterday (or whenever). I mean, we already know we have to grind like crazy just to get ascended gear, as simply getting the 2 accessories takes 80 days of grinding Dailies + 100 Ectoplasms, but do we have to make it harder and harder to to gain gold and karma as the game goes on, while Trading Post prices continue to rise?

Throw DR in the mix and Guild Wars 2 is quickly becoming one of the most GRIND intensive MMO’s to ever exist!

DR has often been touted as an anti-bot measure, btw, but it hurts a large majority of the active player base, as we need tons of gold to move forward in the game (have you seen the price of precursors lately?). It really should be fixed or removed.

Just tell us exactly how the point system works. Not the modified Glicko-2 system, we already know how that works, and not the standard PPT, but all those mysterious, hidden, “non-PPT” points that sneak into our end-of-week score. I mean Dolyaks (supply caravans), Sentries, PvE Champions like the Harpy or Veteran Worm, and anything else that adds points to the WvW score for a server. Just please tell us exactly where all the points are coming from and how they are calculated in this competitive portion of that game that we’ve playing FOR POINTS for 8 months already. Please!

This requires no programming, no changes to the game, we just need someone to look up the information and tell us this very basic part of how the game works in WvW. Thank you.

Devon Carter is already addressing some of these problems in another thread, though not the exact specifics of the math you have listed above:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Fixing-the-WvW-ranking-and-pairing-flaws/first#post1774081

At least they seem to understand that it’s a problem.

DevonCarver.5370:

That’s our current assessment as well, which is why it’s going to take more work to decide what we really want to do here. Speaking for myself, I think we need to change some of the mechanics of scoring to more accurately reflect what we want people doing in the game, which would hopefully get us tighter matches. There are any number of possible ways to deal with this however, which makes it a paradox of choice to a certain degree. Rest assured we have top men working on it! And me. :P

Any chance you could start by telling us where all the points are actually coming from? We’ve seen the math on how the modified Glicko-2 system works, but we still don’t know where all the points in our end-of-week score are coming from, or how they are calculated; not officially, anyway. It could greatly improve the game if we actually knew how all of the non-PPT points worked and where they come from exactly, and if there is a cap of any kind on non-ppt points and what that is.

To be honest, ANY change to the way Fractal Weapons drop would be welcome. The system is terrible right now, and appears to be nothing more than a way to force people to buy gems for more Bank Slots, as we wrack up stacks and stacks of useless rings and weapons skins we don’t want or can’t use.

Alright, this subject REALLY needs to be cleared up by someone official from Anet please. This thread is getting cluttered with misinformation and people simply reposting the same old theories again & again with NO real evidence to back up their theories, and it’s just adding to the confusion.

Once and for all, can someone from Anet please tell us exactly how the Dolyak point system works? Is there a limit to the points you can get from a Dolyak, and if so, what is that limit?

This is a competitive portion of the game, after all, and it is played for points, but we still don’t know where those points come from, how many points there are, or how the points are calculated! It’s makes even basic gameplay in WvW very difficult, when you have to “guess” how many points you’re getting for each objective, or you have to do months of research to figure it out instead of actually playing the game, and even then you still can’t be 100% sure.

PLEASE address this issue when you have time, ArenaNet (^_^)

Krakah.3582:

I’ll give everyone the best fix to zerg play, Friendly Fire. You’ll still get some dumb kitten trolls on a team, but zergs will be history.

Oh noes!!! But then the game would be… slightly more difficult to play!!!

Seriously though, as long as we have crazy lag going on, friendly-fire is going to be incredibly frustrating.

To be honest, it’s probably better to just change the timer on contested Waypoints, instead of making it always contested as long as the “Defend the Keep” event is up. If a single person had to smack the Waypoint every 15 seconds, for instance, to keep it contested, it completely takes that person out of the game, and would become so mind-numbingly boring that that hardly anyone would be willing to do it. Likewise, if a group sieging a Keep sends EVERYONE to a camp for supply, or completely stops attacking the gate/walls for more than 15 seconds for any reason, in my opinion that should open the Waypoint up anyway.

15 seconds is just a suggestion off the top of my head, it could be 30 seconds or whatever actually works best for the game. But putting the Waypoints on a short, independant timer could make contesting Waypoints possible, but not worth the trouble of doing it non-stop, unless you WERE actually attacking the Keep.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

These nerf zerg threads are touchy with me. I don’t like to see artificial mechanics in place just to change something that others find unappealing when I think that players should really be the ones to deal with that and if something truely is unballanced, then I can see a change in programming is called for.

The big problem is that you have artificial mechanics in place already that make it better to run in large groups and penalize anyone not doing so. And it’s not just about wxp or karma, there are “hidden mechanics” in the game that have only been confirmed in the past week or so by Anet to award more points to a server (points added to your score) simply for bringing far more people than you need to take an objective:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

These kind of rules mean that taking something as simple as a Dolyak with a smaller group or solo will effectively result in your server losing potential points. Rules like this make absolutely no sense in the game, but do heavily incentivize roaming in unnecessarily large groups even when there is no real danger on a particular map.

Reslinal.2359:

1. Tweak mechanisms to change the current meta of one whole map zerg ball; increase WXP for defense and other non-kill/capture activities.

1.) Please start by fixing the “Bonus Points for cZerging” rule: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

It makes absolutely no sense in its current form, and being a “hidden mechanic” honestly just makes it worse.

Avenge.1478:

3. Not once do we say “Hey we need more people over here at X supply camp to take out these Dolyaks, I really want more WXP!”

You COMPLETELY misunderstood this point; this is not about WXP, a Dolyak actually gives your server more points on the board simply by hitting a Dolyak with far more people than should be necessary. This is possibly worth twice as many points per tick as ALL of the stuctures in WvW COMBINED. That’s written right into the scoring system, and sounds like a pretty big incentive to roam in large groups: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

As for the karma/wpx trains, they’ve been running in Tier 1 since 24 hour resets. 24 hour resets are when these czergs got started, and you still see massive blobs rolling around the map tagging everything, flipping easy objectives for quick points and never defending or seeking out even fights (though they will usually roll over any group they find with 1/2 their numbers or less.) It’s not some kind of sociology project the way you tried to explain it in your first post there, and these massive czergs didn’t form over time organically in order to counter similar numbers in WvW. They started as early as headstart, when people were just trying to hit level 80 ASAP, and kept going as people leveled up their alts or needed karma for gear or legendaries, and of course they’ve come back in a BIG way since WXP was added to the game, even in Tier 1. It’s nice to know that at least your 1 guild on SoR is playing to win, though you guys are kind of “perma-third” in Tier 1 anyway, but that doesn’t account for every giant czerg you see in the game, nor in Tier 1. There is still a lot of WvW farming going on, and that will continue anytime something requiring a “grind” is added to that affects the WvW portion of the game, as people don’t want to wait to get their ranks up, or get the new gear stats, or whatever.

Well, in addition to it being painfully slow for matchups to change, this glicko 2 style rating system is based on the end of week score, and Anet STILL hasn’t told us where all of THOSE points are coming from, even!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

This whole time we’ve been playing a competitive game for points, without actually knowing where all of those points come from, how we get all of our points, or how the points are tallied.

Yep, nothing new here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/first#post1190009

Still no word on what the point cap actually is for killing a Supply Caravan. Has anyone out there been able to figure this out, with SOME kind of evidence to back up your theory?

Is there anyone from ArenaNet who’s willing to clearly explain just how the opint system works in WvW, particularly with all the “hidden” points that are added outside of standard PPT?

So… is it time to start letting Thief Venoms apply to siege attacks?