Guild Wars 2

5 person limit + long casting time + upcomming damage nerf, PLEASE ANET don’t do it. You are killing the whole game.

Every nerf, deserves a boost in another way, or you’ll destroy many professions ‘usefullness’.

I can bring a thousand viable reason, why this could (if you boost in another way like remove 5 person limit, i’m ok with it) potentially destroy a lot of fun in the game.

I hate the loud footsteps of heavy armor profession. But I took peace that they never gonna bother, make a seperate sound volume bar for footsteps like in Skyrim, and i’m not gonne whine about it in the forums. (well ok kinda now, but i’m only givign it as an example, and I didnt make my own topic about it).

Shut down your dirty imaginations guys. Maybe you seen to much american ‘over the top’ comedies? Where all actor, fart every second? There’s a reason I don’t like that kind of movie (or find them not funny at all).

You guys have to much imagination. In real life you can’t see a the fart gas, so why should you in game? Secondly, ingame you can’t smell anything. So their is basically no reason to even think about farting while playing a SoR warrior. Still you guys think about it. Sorry but that makes me wonder what you guys been doing lately :o

If you really hate it, then put it on auto-cast. Or start imagining more about magic fantasy stuff rather then dirty real life stuff.

Magical rage fire covering a heroic character. I don’t see why you guys have so much trouble with it.

Dont forget the signet. That one can also boost condition damage by 10% (Think it’s called Signet of Midnight).

I must concur, i also upgraded Sigil of battle to a superior one, I tested it, and the 3 stacks might rarely activated, and seem to have a way to short duration. If i do a battle for 3 secs, i end up with 4 stacks might maximum, wich makes no sense, battle (with boon duration), should end up with at least 6 if not 9 stacks.

Happy new year all, from Desolation. May Anet bring more glory to guild wars 2 in 2013.

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

Best quote in this thread. Thiefs = kill people even if they are not skilled.

Other 7 profs = if you don’t play well, you’ll die fast.

That alone imo is unfair.

Half of my guild transfered to other server already, so guess i’m in the same boat (no it isnt a ‘go to winning server’ change, but for completely other reasons). They are fighting Elona Reach now.

I can tell you one thing vizunah square. Playtime is over. The German Copy of Vizunah hardcore madness is there. They fight like vizu, flee like vizu, zerg like vizu, hack gates like vizu, deploy zergs only on other zerg after they entered a building rather then doing it at first rate, they build tons of siege, they use trebs as easy ‘way in’, they have 3x 80 zergs in EB, they have strong nightcapping, …

Perfect copy of vizu, perfect enemy for vizu. No more easy wins, because of numbers I’m glad i’m out of this t1 ‘not fun’-gameplay. Lets hope Elona/Vizu battle forever, so all other servers can have ‘real fun’.

Well you can have the lower repair bills, but the Op-burst must be looked at, on the skill I mentioned. And sorry to hear you are hurt by what I say, fellow thief. But their must be a reason, you and many others keep choosing the thief over other professions. It won’t be for PVE reasons i’m sure of that. If they decide to keep Thief as it is, i’ll soon make mine lvl 80. Not because I like it, not becaus it’s my playstyle, but Because in pvp it’s the only viable profession against thief, (wich are their a lot now).

And yeah they nerfed my precious Guardian. I adapted and still played. Not to hard. Why are you so hurt by the fact op-skills got nerfed? Those skills give thiefs easy kills. Do you get satisfaction, by single button pressed, to get victory? I can tell you, on my other profs, i must press over 25 buttons to kill an enemy. At least. (1 vs 1).

I think thief is just a little to easy now, combined with cloacking (most popular effect in every game) and it’s obviously very popular in pvp. To popular imo.

Try to do 15k damage with a warrior in 4 secs. (Don’t mention Eviscarate/Kill shot, those are way to easy to dodge, thief skills are very hard to dodge, so it must be similar ‘hard to dodge combo’). Try to do same with ele. I tell you you will fail in both cases. So why should you be able to do what no other prof can do?

And stop whining about squishyness. You got MEDIUM armor, not light armor. That makes more of a difference then you realize now. And low hp, don’t make me laugh. you got 100% crit rate in stealth trait. That means you only need Valkyrie armor to complement. This gets you easely over 18k hp.

Cloacking = cowardness. Not wanting to pay repair bills. Cheating in a fight you actually almost lost.

Combine that with Heartseeker, Backstab and Cloack and dagger, and you got whining XD I think it’s definitely deserved on the mentioned skills (the complaints), otherwise thief seems ok-ish.

But i still don’t see why thief should pay less repair cost then other profesisons.

@ Karolis lol

Gimme a Necro/Ele build that can spam 2k+ damage non stop (at least, with heartseeker, CnD+BS = 7k at least). My ele has a few 2k skills and they all need skill to be landed on the enemy, just pressing the button, it will miss the enemy, unlike heartseeker who only misses if cripple or dodged.

So you thought of anything? Nope. Thought so. So anet, this is why thiefs need a nerf. They know they are more powerfull and are trying to use false facts to defend themself. I’m not asking for a major nerf. But Heartseeker and Cloack and dagger (perhaps Backstab too) are at the core of the Op-ness of Theif. You never gonna hear me complain about ppl who dont use offhand pistol. All those builds are ok.

GrandMechantLoup.8201:

Centrix.4065:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Is this a Coincidance? Nope. AS transfered to Vizu. Stop hiding in lies.

Nice show, really funny ! But all french speaking community know two things :

- The most important thing for AS in the world is ……….. beat VS
- The most important thing for VS in the world is ………… beat AS

Some people in each side have hate from 10 years ago …

If one day AS and VS players merge in the same server, then war is over for you.

Well I would almost believe you, but AS and Vizu allied against BT, the last week AS was in tire 1. They did not so for the course of the week. But the last 3 hours Vizunah Square 100% dedicated themself to kill Blacktide, and they went side by side with AS zergs, not killing each other, to our keep to destroy it.

If you guys hate each other so much, this sort of alliance (temporary as it may have been) is not possible.

And to those that say, state only facts, this is one. VS, AS, BT know this happened the last 3 hours of the VS-BT-AS battle.

Koops.6097:

SilentKill.9586:

As a VS player since the very beginning end a member of Grand Cross i can assure you that there haven’t been any transfer in our favor (maybe some isolated players but not more). We face you with our regular forces as we do since few months now.

What a huge joke. Arborstone, was at some point, almost better then BT. Now they dropped T2, and this week they lost tremendous Tire points (almost 100), wich only happens if you play incredible bad. At the same time vizu has more players then ever. I’ve have an eye for zerg numbers, and they increased a lot. Is this a Coincidance? Nope. AS transfered to Vizu. Stop hiding in lies.

One thing is for sure, I play this game for fun. Vizu plays on a strain of madness, thinking the world will end if they don’t win, by whatever the means to an end.

Wilow.3061:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Zwipe.5419:

CHIPS.6018:

Zwipe.5419:

All I got have to say to the dev team is PLEASE do not give in to all the people crying for nerfs on thieves.

I played a thief and I want them to be nerfed. Thieves are killing this game.

do we hit hard?yes.

is it unavoidable?no.

no need to nerf.

Heartseeker is unavoidable. Once Dodge bar is empty. And since you can spam it 4-6 times depending on build, I say ‘it IS unavoidable’. Mesmer have daze and Knockback that can be time to interrupt.

The only way to beat thief is to interrupt him. Loosing endurance or hp = win for thief. Cause he gets so close to an ‘easy burst target’ down, that you can’t do a kitten against it. Interrupt works because it EATS the iniative, without the thief making progress (removing endurance/hp). Ele got one knockback every 40 secs. Apart from that you have full freedom to spam heartseeker down on our throat.

95% Unavoidable on non interrupt professions.

What kind of ele do you have? Most common PvP weapon for Ele is D/D, so you would have:

-1 knock back/down every 40 secs
-1 2 sec knockdown every 45 secs
-1 (buggy at times) 2 sec Immobilize every 12 secs
-3 sec cripple every 6 secs
-1 1200 range get out of jail free card every 15 sec
-4 sec aura that stuns for 1 sec every 25 secs
-3 sec chill every 15 secs
-7 sec aura that chills for 2 sec every 40 secs
…and those are just your weapon skills

Ele is probably one of the better professions that can get away from melee (if you don’t know what chill/cripple do to HS spamming morons, then this is 100% a L2P issue). I’m not going to get into the traits that give eles the best Endurance management in the game…

I wish it was as easy as this. Thiefs move so fast in their Heartseeker flow, that targetting them with either one of the skills often fails they kinda dodge it with heartseeker leap. If it hits, i’m close to the thief, wich means, cripple/chill, not gonna prevent the thief from Heartseekign me, as, this only works while being far. Maybe the chill will work, but regardless. The stun aura is weak. Yes it stuns you so what? The damage form heartseeker COMES TRU, and you are NOT INTERRUPTED. Basically it buys 1 sec time, wich is nothing to the crazy heartseeking damage speed.

Thirdly, You have to know if it’s berserker/bunker thief you are fighting, but to know that you must take damage, and waste skills meanwhile on the thief. When you finally know what kind of thief he is, he has you 30-50% down on hp, and an advantage. But that’s just my take on it. Show me vid how to counter one of those thiefs who daily play wvw (and have skill). Ele’s can be anoying, but are still squishy as hell. Our damage is nothing compared to thiefs, and with their medium armor, (even glass canon), they absort, the biggest spikes of ele. I hitted them often with Burning speed (flame blast, 3k damage tops), and Churning Earth (should be 7k total – with burning speed, 11k with all bleeds going off), somehow they got the bleeds off very fast, healed at the same time, leaving me with two of my best skills on cooldown, still spamming their ‘25% of ele bunker builded hp’ damaging skills – and they were still full hp. And when you finally get as close to the thief having 20% hp left. They always vanish even if they already consumed 3 cloacks. Shadow refuge must be standed in 4 secs, to not be revealed. I casted churning earth the second, it went off (3,25 cast), and I layed it that way it’s 360 radius was bigger everywhere then the Shadow refuge (so even if he ran out he will still probably be hit by it), he had 2k health tops before cloacking (SR). Did the die? Nope not at all. I pressed closest enemy button often enough, and he just disappeared. I tested this often enough to make sure it wasnt ‘a to late’ on my end. Somehow they slip tru aoe damage while SR’ing.

Either thief cloacking has glitches, that some thiefs are abusing now, or they are overpowered. And either way they must be fixed. Burst professions always must have downsides, and now they can be cheated apon (those downsides), like iniative emptyness.

Fact remains if thief is weak, they why is it one of the most (if not most) chosen profession in wvw? If it’s barely manageble, and barely reliable enough, then why all those thiefs, not choose another profesison? Especially after 3 months, (and wvw is a non stop battle, that never ends, so plenty time), i think the most used profession, give a good representation of the strongest profession.

Follow up on post above:

Vampire is underwhelming. Make vampire builds, scale like healing with Malice signet (thief).

I can go on more and more, the it stands, Necro used to be the master of a lot of things in gw1, with the simple ‘less skills, more quality’ thing in gw2, they got ruined, because Anet focused more on other professions. I think nobody at the current Anet office plays necro. They only included it because they knew they had to with gw1 players in mind. But they failed. They have no connection with it, cause nobody is playing it. Warrior for instance is played by Jon Peters. I know thief is played as wel, seeing how a dev respods often enough in that forum.

Necro however? Zero Anet intrest. ‘make better use of DS’. Yeah yeah, but limit ourself at the same time? No thanks.

Mesmers get distortion? (unique buff, kinda boon), their profession only. Well why not give necro’s unique condition or something like it. They deserve it.

I have a 80 necro, but it’s eating dust sadly. I fully agree with OP. Necro aint fun. And only got a very few viable builds.

Marks are underwhelming, their physical damage (melee) should be upped by a lot, in the area of 500-1000. This counts for all skills, even condition spamming ones, cause conditions get cleared way to easy.

downed (wich can be re-triggered by certain professions) clears all conditions. Professions like guardians have 7+ means to remove conditions (rune of the soldier is one of the best).

Bleed cap, multiple bleeds counting as single condition (thus single remove, removes all), severely hurts condition spec. If every bleed would be a seperate packet, now Imagine that. I might be even to op. But as it stands Necro is to weak. They need at least a third evect (other then bleed/poison). One that reliable does 400 damage per tick, wich medicore condition damage (600/tick, with maximum, around 1700).

Pets are useless. Gw1 was so much better. OK you had zero control. But the minions did something. they meant something. They were means to other ends (sacrafice skills). In gw2 they are one-shottable pets, that rarely hit their target appropriate, and do to few damage to matter. Imo, necro should be able to sustain minions life, with certain skill spams. and by that forcing enemy into choosing between minion kill or player kill. In gw1 minion could be very anoying, and necro’s knew that. They made high survive builds around themselfs, cause they know enemies focus on them, but meanwhile the minions did a lot of damage, potentially killing enemies.

Traits lackluster compared to other profession. Just to weak. Like ‘remove 3 conditions when you kill a foe’. That is a joke in pvp and wvw. (not pve obviously). The trait should be made different so it activates in combat. Since Guardians have possibility to remove 3 conditions every 10 secs (with 10+30 trait combo, and heal signet), i think this should be exactly like it. I dunno why necro should have less control over conditions then other professions. They are the masters of conditions.

Fear sucks. Necromancer, as the master of fear, should have more fear sources, better trait improves, and the ultimate fear skill compared to other professions (now warriors lead). Also fear should make the target run in random direction. Now way to often the target you are trying to catch, runs STRAIGHT away from you while he’s feared. Without turning another side. In other games fear means ‘runs in random direction, unable to do anything about it or use skills’. Should be same here. So that necro’s get a lot more control.

Weapon synergy is bad. Dagger/focus (or warhorn) or best combo’s. Axe sucks. Really Anet, revive this weapon into something better. Only third skill is ok, but since first two are crap it’s unreliable. Sceptor is ok, but completely different from dagger. Then offhand for sceptor is almost always dagger since it synergizes best for condition damage (4 to send Blood is Power bleed to enemy, 5 for extra control (weakness) and bleeds.

Focus is nice, but the effects are slightly to unreliable (for number 4-5 skills compared to other profs), and cooldown (for their effects) to long, even though it’s 4-5 skills. They should add more effects to it.

Warhorn nice, but again to basic for 4-5 skills. Improve them a lot. 4 Cd should be shortened and add a self-boon, 5 should do either more damage, or do poison damage.

Death shroud is to ‘need traits in Soul Reapong’ to be good, wvw wise, limiting severely other builds. Almost all necro opponents I meet, are builded around, Life force gain (go in DS, until it runs out, they don’t go out at the recommended 50% life force, they keep going until it reaches zero, then they use certain skills (spectral armor), to regain quickly, i barely did some hits on them (mostly concentrated but powerfull attacks wich should only trigger 3% LF, still they somehow almost filled 60% life force. They immediately jumped in it again, and stayed in it for as long as they could, outlasting me almost. (Ele) Imo, in wvw, the DS is a little to demanding, and responses of Anet show they think DS compensates for every other weakness. I say they are wrong.

Life blast should do more then just damage (add bleed or poison, or a weakening condition like weakness). they are condition mancers after all, and 2-3 DS skills are to unreliable, and situational to count as ‘condition’ part of the DS mechanism.

I want to love necro in gw2. Sadly they are just so much, underwhelming.

In wvw for instance, Greater marks is almost a must (and staff CD reduce). But this again limits other build choices. I think marks should be automaticly 240 radius. the normal radius is very tiny for what it does. Also many other profession traits that reduce weapon recharge time (skills), also boost something about the weapon, i think this should be the case for every necro weapon, to motivate and improve certain weapon builds.

Zwipe.5419:

CHIPS.6018:

Zwipe.5419:

All I got have to say to the dev team is PLEASE do not give in to all the people crying for nerfs on thieves.

I played a thief and I want them to be nerfed. Thieves are killing this game.

do we hit hard?yes.

is it unavoidable?no.

no need to nerf.

Heartseeker is unavoidable. Once Dodge bar is empty. And since you can spam it 4-6 times depending on build, I say ‘it IS unavoidable’. Mesmer have daze and Knockback that can be time to interrupt.

The only way to beat thief is to interrupt him. Loosing endurance or hp = win for thief. Cause he gets so close to an ‘easy burst target’ down, that you can’t do a kitten against it. Interrupt works because it EATS the iniative, without the thief making progress (removing endurance/hp). Ele got one knockback every 40 secs. Apart from that you have full freedom to spam heartseeker down on our throat.

95% Unavoidable on non interrupt professions.

Exactly. If ele mist form is nerfed we need trait that gives Defy pain (or mist form) at 25% health. Hell, defy pain is better then mist form, you can still damage ppl while it’s up, unlike vapor form, where you can only run. People who complain about this are silly. Every prof has certain advantages, that others will never have. Keep escaping, for ele’s is one of it. So what? Other profession have their own.

voidwater.2064:

If you down a thief outside of a tower, they’re dead unless their teammates save them.

I’m glad you agree that 100% chance to escape is bad.

I saw many thiefs get away in heavy arrow carted territory. Cloack = 90-95% escape. Secondly Vapor form has penalty, cloack doesnt. If you get downed, you start with lesser hp. Trust me third time you go downed you are dead. So basically you locked that player away from the combat zone. If he enters with red downed marker, he’s as good as dead. Cloack on the other hand… Thiefs can even regen while cloacked.

Secondly ele’s don’t have superior dagger storm. Dagger storm = free ride outside castle. They will hit you but to late to realize all projectiles don’t hit. And when they realize it, you can still fully move to escape.

Anet please nerf Dagger storm (sarcasm).

I hope they don’t nerf it. It’s not op in any way. And it makes Air more viable (trait/air skills synergie).

Groovy.6749:

I really hope ANet makes his own mind about the issue and ignores the forum whiners who just want to tear down any class that isn’t theirs.
I love my thief but he isn’t my only character so it’s not like I will care much either way.
as long as all the classes remain fun to play that is all that matters.

I have a thief and I love it pve. If they nerf to hard I won’t like it either anymore. All my of suggestion clearly pointed only in wvw direction, so this isnt ‘nerf thief to hell, QQ whining’ as you are afraid of. But we both know culling, is OP for thiefs in wvw. Add in higher then PVE stats, and the burst damage gets multiplied harder then low damage professions. Add on top of that thoughness barely making a diff, and thief is to OP. I admit just nerfing damage won’t work. Hell they should keep damage as it is. But cloacking is way out of line. Thief has the most dodges of all professions in the game. (Utilities – Roll for iniative -, skills like Death Blossom, trait, that makes endurance return on dodge, kinda making a thief dodge bar has 3 bars compared to other professions). why is this left out? Why does Anet lay the focus on the strongest ‘retreat’ ability? Normal combat (excluding cloacking thus), with the many dodges thief has, should be sufficient to make them ‘viable’. Spammable cloack makes them OP.

Guardian had a serious Greatsword nerf, and recently altruistic healing nerf. They still adapted, and keep playing. All these thiefs saying ‘but thief will be useless’ are lyers. They are just scared to be pushed to adapt to other (less cowardly) skills then cloack.

100% escape chance, voidwater hahahaha. Basically you are just saying now thiefs must be nerfed. And don’t turn into thief defence now. You don’t want a prof with 100% escape chance. So cloack must be nerfed. Haha. So funny all these op thiefs, trying to nerf ele while they are op themself.

Explain to me why someone who ALREADY spammed 4x heartseeker, used cloack heal (had to be, he used over 12 ini on Heartseeker), He used shadow refuge, and for a miracle i managed to force him to reveal himself out of it (aoeing heavely inside it). So he came out. This means heal cloack cooldown, shadow refuge cooldown.

At that point he could have used CnD. But i was away from him, cause i knew he would use it, and CnD only works if it hits. (PvE learned me that quite fast).

Out of nowhere he cloacks and is NEVER seen again. Combat logs, didn’t add any new cloack and dagger. He just was gone.

Really revealing does nothing.

Yes i pressed ‘select closest target’ all the time. But i select a stupid wall or monster instead of the thief with that. I must tab tab tab until the reveal is over and he cloacks all over again.

And lol at evading suggestion. You guys think it’s this easy? We have only 2 dodge bars. If we have to use them to avoid first combo’s, we have zero defence, zero retreat. The thiefs comes at us, BANG 4x teleported Heartseeker that overrules moving in any way by the opposite profession. You can only dodge heartseeker. Or interrupt it. But that is hard with my ground targeted spells since you jump safely into the air while using your HS.

With 3-5 dodge bars I may be able to beat a thief. As it stands now, meh. All their skills overrule dodging to easely. Steal = teleport (dodge useless), Backstab, unseen, uncoutered, free 20-30% hitpoints of enemy down. What comes then you may dodge, but ONLY TWO. Vigor restores to slowly to have a third dodge ,when someone spams heartseeker.

I think you guys are to used to thief itself, wich has more dodge then any other profession while Ironically, need them the least of all with cloacking mechanism.

Iddiozzia.3489:

Imho the biggest mistake that all assassins/thiefs/rogues developers make about this type of class is that their biggest damage comes when they’re invisible, making it uncounterable and forcing them to play the way we all know.
This should be inverted, their biggest burst should be while they’re visible so that they expose themself into danger when they try to score a kill, and stealth should be used as a defensive skill, in order to recover and appear again to continue the fight.
In every single game i’ve ever played, assassin/thiefs/rogues and so on have always been the most frustrating class to face for that reason, please be the first to break this chain, because i love this game’s pvp, and i don’t want it to die for stupid reasons like this.

Best suggestion Ever. Use this Anet, and all the QQ will go away. They can still escape, still burst. But not anymore combine them into oblivion for the enemy. Now they actually have to be ‘skilled’ to kill en enemy. And not press e few rotations, without enemy resistance at all.

Backstab should do an effect only (like immobalize or stun) but NOT do great burst damage.

If they nerf Ele downed state, i want a thief nerf as wel (both skills cloack them as it causes culling). I’ve seen downed thiefs do their share of miraculous escapes.

This is a reward for playing the most squishy profession in the game. And one of the more complex to master. And our damage isn’t amazing either, compared to thief, ranger, warrior. Our third downed skill is also bad, long cooldown (rarely able to use it) and if i use it the bleeds go away after 2 secs). Basically we got only one good downed skill, and it’s a very good one.

If this gets nerf, thief must be nerfed also (cloacking is easiest way to escape into building). So thiefs, what you say? Nerf ele vapor form AND cloacking? Or suddenly change your mind and keep both ingame?

Maugetarr.6823:

With all the talk about how the thief can get away if things go awry for them, I would like to know when retreat became a form of victory in people’s minds. So you didn’t get the 10 points in PvP or the chance for badge drops in WvW, but if you force a thief to retreat, you have won.

Because no repair cost, no loot for enemy, and you don’t have to waypoint. 3 reasons.

I’ll repeat it again, a good builded thief, cannot die, and somehow always has hp/iniative left (even after consta-spamming them over 40 secs with maybe 4-5 secs pause max). This should not be possible.

Warrior is a joke compared to thiefs. CC the warrior and he’s dead, can’t do anything. CC a thief, he cloacks, gets away.

I saw 20 thiefs use Shadow Refuge today. Some with very low hp (almost dead). Having played thief myself in wvw (lvl 53) I know aoe’s inside Shadow refuge field can easely kill thief. I did all my aoe’s (over 8k damage, and many dots), thief had low hp when he used it. And he STILL ESCAPED. you read this? Still. I’m all out of creativity, on how to catch and kill a thief. They always escape, always, unless they are noobs, who rarely cloack.

PVE: Warrior
PVP: Thief, and a little behind but still OP, mesmer.

Warrior imo has the best allround of both (pve + pvp).

Agree Dev. Come out here. Talk. Proof Necro is viable. Every time I jump on my necro, i leave it again, as I feel so weak, both damage, and armor wise. The high hp pool barely helps, (same for DS). Survival tools work much better (dodge, vigor restoration – necro don’t have any – stun, etc.)

100% Agree. I have lvl 80 Necromancer, I love it in several ways, but in action they are weak. This ‘attrition’ anet wants makes us weak. End of story. The extra hp we have, (and death shourd) do not make up for lack of mobility. Mobility = incredible great survival potential. A few extra hit points aren’t. I don’t know what anet was thinking. And if we gotta win a fight slowly, why is Mesmer way better at shutting down an opponent then Necro? Necro barely can shutdown enemies. At least not in a continous way like confusion spam, of mesmer.

Condition damage is worse then the best ranged/melee auto attacks, in sustainable damage. If we boost it by trait, we run into the cap, wich FURTHER reduce damage, wich is already lower then other profs. Shame Anet. Please fix this. Conditions (especially bleed) is countered to easy.

Why not? If ppl wanna spend on gems, it’s good for Anet, they can hire more ppl for updates. I’ll slowly farm my own legendary, together.

Daphoenix, i’d like to know wich ‘backpack’ you are using (Ascended). If you dont have one yet, wich stats would you choose? The one with most ‘split’ stats, isn’t that good imo because it includes magic find. The others are stronger but focus more on one of the stats. 50 ecto + 250 t6 mat is expensive so I don’t wanna waste on the wrong one.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Condensed_Mists_Essence lists all, if they have same list of requirements, they have same stats, just other look, so don’t click twice on the one with Vial of Powerfull blood (both same stats).

@CreativeAnarchy: Surviving a thief, and killing a thief are two total different things. If i only focus on survival, then a thief prolly wont kill me. Just hit ride the lightning, POOF, thief is out of my way. However killing on is next to impossible without dying yourself.

Also explain this: if thief is no better then other professions, why is it so popular in wvw? Why are there 30 thiefs for every Engineer i see?

Genophix.3098:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Choko.6821:

It’s good to see who running the mouth here also ended up being last place. Must be funny.

You sentence proofs SFR is the biggest mouth and not us. We are merely stating facts and opinions. Wich I haven’t seen yet from SFR.

Like the fact you have 2x as much ppl then BT. Try whatever escape sentence you want, but it’s a fact.

To be honest both vizu and SFR exploit to much cheats, (door bypassing, culling abuse, 3 thief parties for obvious reasons, etc). In my opinion those things are not honest and fair play wvw. Being tire 2 as BT, i woudl be very glad, then you SFR and vizu can use you cheats on each other, and we’ll have fun fights again. This is no excuse for losing. I’ll fully admit we are losing. And i’m glad we are loosing against such ‘how can we abuse ’this’ to win, kind of players’. Put all of you in pvp matches and i’m curious if you’d win there too, because pvp glitches are almost all fixed.

Wvw should be mass pvp, without the glitches there are at the moment.

Well your kinda contradicting yourself here aren’t you? Your accusing the two other servers involved of cheating (that would be an excuse) and then you say your not making excuses. In case you didn’t know the cries of ‘cheat’ are usually emanating from a bad loser.

As it happens I am involved with one of the biggest guilds on SFR and cheating isn’t even in their vocabulary. We are just honest gamers who like WvsW, it’s a real shame you can’t accept that as your making your server look bad and I’m sure most are the same as us. Just having a laugh and being good sports.

Fight us with equal numbers, and i’ll be more then happy to fight you guys without stress, frustration and feeling cheated. And maybe you are an honest gulid, (i can believe that). But I have seen people cheat in the SFR camp. Still vizu leads in this respect. Proved again today. Either way atm so many ppl bored of wvw in BT it is no fun. We must fight underarmed, and I’d think we should jump a tire down by now, (wich sadly won’t happen yet). Have 180 vs 175 vs 170k endscores is my dream match (making all opponents very equal). Also fight with normal professions. everyone knows thief is OP. I’m making one myself atm, to abuse their overpoweredness in wvw. Finally a escape rate of 90%. Wee, here I come, the undefeated. (you guys jumped me several times with party of multiple thief, Now not the most fun/challenging way to fight wvw).

I did again fights against thiefs. Use all my ‘CC’ available, survived about 1min, they still crushed me down.

My gripes:

Dagger auto attack way to much damage, slamming 1 = zero skill cap.

A thief should not be able to spam backstab. At most 1x per 30 secs, hell 1 min in my opinion. Make it like ranger opening strike. You get one ‘backstab’ bonus, then you are equal to all other profession without overpowered mechanisms.

Cloack should not be spammable. Heal + Shadow refuge are enough as they are. Either make CnD cost 12 initiative (i’m not joking, that would actually give it a 10 sec cooldown aprox, wich it really needs) or remove it.

Thirdly Thievery is not punished in any way. For such crazy strong combination (cloacking + burst damage), i’d say if you fail to burst enemy down, you should get a punishment for it. Like all stats halfed. (was that way in another game, half armor when cloacked, i loved it, they still kicked kitten but only when used by skilled players). If player comes out of cloack they get a 5 sec window, after that, they get a debuff of some kind. And in cloack they should take double damage, making it an actual risk and gample.

My Ele nor guardian can’t actually spit out 4k damage without berserker gear wich fails on them (lousy trait lines, no super trait likes +1 initiative chance when crit hit). A Thief can do loads of them non stop.

Initiative recovery while in stealth? what a joke. Remove all trait that boost cloack initiative, and stop initiative from regening when cloacking. Now they rush all iniative, you are almost dead. They cloack. You cannot do a kitten. They regain plenty iniative. They strike again. If you by miracle still survived that, they just rinse and repeat. This is no burst, they can sustain it way to good.

Very simple anet, nerf thief in wvw (look at your charts, wich prof kills most enemies, thief by far on top, we all know it), or force me to make one myself to abuse their overpoweredness. I don’t like thief playstyle. But i neither like to be underpowered, and killed over and over by same profession. It’s your choice Anet. If you ignore, i’ll make thief. If you actually do something, i’ll be happy to continu my other mage professions.

I’m using 0/10/10/30/20 atm since the EA nerf, And I feel pretty nice. When a zerg was on my tail, trying to snare me, the auto-armor of earth safed my life, with stability and the other 3 triggered boons (protection, vigor, regen).

Money sink. Sneaky way Anet. If you build defence, you earn the right to use it UNTILL the enemie kills it. Not anytime before. my 2 cents.

Thiefs have some overpowered skills. Death Blossom is by far not one of them. I like this skill (at my thief alt), and I think it represents the style of thiefs. Squishy but very good at evading attacks. This skill doesnt do crazy much damage itself, and the bleeds are removable. Secondly, you have dodges too, and probably access to shield/buff/block/vigor restoring skills etc. You should be more sturdy also, making it hard for a thief to kill you with death blossom alone.

At least like others mentioned the evade from it is very short. Short enough to not be overpowered. If you know the animation, then you’ll be able to hit us just before and after it, quite easely.

Key to Zerg removing, is removing downed state. Yes I like escaping with vapor form. But in the end, my enemy servers (who love 60+ zergs), have escaped way more then me. Why? they could always get a ress from someone else. And ressing downed = 1-2k hp heal per second. This brings monking al the way back. (Wich arenanet clearly stated they don’t want any of it ingame) If you are downed and have support, you cannot die. They just ress you back up. Imo ress downed, may exist in wvw, (to give escape chance to some extend when you deserve it), but make the heal much worse. Make the heal only to 200-500 heal per second.

This will make people who are downed, actuallyh close to the reality, wich means they are almost certainly defeated, for making a mistake (if you go downed, you made mistake or sacraficed yourself for the better good). Now to much people escape from this faith by zerging.

Choko.6821:

It’s good to see who running the mouth here also ended up being last place. Must be funny.

You sentence proofs SFR is the biggest mouth and not us. We are merely stating facts and opinions. Wich I haven’t seen yet from SFR.

Like the fact you have 2x as much ppl then BT. Try whatever escape sentence you want, but it’s a fact.

To be honest both vizu and SFR exploit to much cheats, (door bypassing, culling abuse, 3 thief parties for obvious reasons, etc). In my opinion those things are not honest and fair play wvw. Being tire 2 as BT, i woudl be very glad, then you SFR and vizu can use you cheats on each other, and we’ll have fun fights again. This is no excuse for losing. I’ll fully admit we are losing. And i’m glad we are loosing against such ‘how can we abuse ’this’ to win, kind of players’. Put all of you in pvp matches and i’m curious if you’d win there too, because pvp glitches are almost all fixed.

Wvw should be mass pvp, without the glitches there are at the moment.

I’m getting better and better with D/D in Wvw. However today I ran in loads of thiefs. It seems SFR server focusses on thiefs. I tried surviving them, but I simply couldn’t. After lasting 20-50 secs, depending on the fight, they simply outlasted me, while spiking me down. Using stun aura (Dagger air 3), didnt seem to work at all, I didn’t see anything for a stun animation, and he kept attacking fast. Since thiefs are ‘a breeze’ for you Daphoenix, i’d like to know how you kill these thiefs.

Backstab is ‘unavoidable’ i think since you cant see it coming. That means 4-6k damage lost, 10-12k left, with that amount of hp you must win against thief, how you manage that?

Watching my traits, this doesn’t seem so hard… cloack, (non initiavie skill), enter battle with backstab, 13 ini (15 points in bottom trait), and ’on crit you gain 1 initiative. This means 14 (backstab autocrit with 30 in crit line, and most take this) initiative. Add 1 more crit, or the normal regen rate, of it, and you got it.

And even above 50% health they do at least 2k, if not 3k damage. My ele has only two, hard to set off, 3k+ attacks. What’s more, moving in combat (somethign that generally makes you harder to be hit in gw2), has no effect vs heartseeker. The leap, makes it hit, unless you dodge.

Laika.8795:

Your post was really intriguing, had me nearly convinced that Thieves really are this unstoppable 1-button killing machine. However…

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Even the stun aura (d/d ele), it didn’t work. He spammed 5x heartseeker…

Once I read this, I laughed so hard, I nearly had an aneurysm.

Laugh as hard as you want. In about 7-8 seconds he did 5 of them. I was as astounded as you, without the ‘laughing out’ part.

stof.9341:

In the time it takes a thief to do 11 heartseekers (including restoring the initiative needed), you should have been able to blast his full HP bar 5 times.

Spamming heartseeker does not work! Or at least I never managed to get it to work XD It only works against uber noobs.

Heartseeker does pitiful damage above 50%. Heartseeker doesn’t evade anything. Heartseeker loses all it’s range when slowed. Really, how could you die to this?

As an ele with full PVT gear 19k hp, he did 4k damage per heartseeker (well 3500 above 50% 4k below 50% 4500 below 25%. But what really scared me was he could combined this with stun/immobalize. Had to sacrafice two stun breakers for this (that i rather time at other moments. He was going for first heartseeker, so stunbreaker alone wasnt enough had to do dodge. The moment i dodge, he did hearseeker again so another dodge. He knew then i was out of Endurance and killed me. (i think with normal attacks, and later one Heartseeker again).

Tulisin.6945:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

And after 45 secs of struggling I hoped he would be out of initiative.

That isn’t how initiative works, it isn’t a once-per-fight thing. If he blew it all at the start of the fight and then chased you a while, he was back up near full for the second round.

WvW as a whole is going to have more balance issues though, just because it is built to be asymmetric. Gear, terrain, server buffs, etc ensure that it is never going to be an even playing field and should not be treated as such.

In the course of the fight, he used 11x (or more) hearseeker, and cloacked a few times. He also Immobalized me twice, and stunned me once. If i’d let him hit all the time, in the full course of battle, he would have done 50-60k damage. That means i must avoid over 75% of this strikes, to survive… Right. On other professions, you must avoid their ‘hard hits’. On thief you must avoid being hit non stop. I also hate heartseeker is a teleport. They should make if you get distance from thief (even small one), that hearseeker cannot hit anymore. They got enough teleports elsewhere. Semi-spammable teleport + high damage, is ovepowered. Nerf at least on of the aspects of this skill. Either remove teleport, nerf damage, make +50% enemy health spamming it, does zero damage (punished cheap thief playing more, and makes player skill more important).

Or put a ‘you cannot spam any skill more then 4x in 30 secs’ system. So they can regen initiative fast, and use it wisely, but cannot do cheap ‘spam this skill over and over, because it works and it’s easy’. Then they must vary between skills. And use skills like death blossom for instance. I never EVER saw a wvw thief use death blossom. The reason is simple. CnD + Heartseeker outmatch it by far. yet in pve i’m using death blossom all the time. Spike damage skills should do a maximum of 10-15% more damage then death blossom. More is ‘not justified’. That makes CnD/Heartseeker atm to powerfull. If they remove heartseeker teleport I can 100% live with it. Because then moving actually means something. If you move, ‘sorrie thief, you’ll have to be a little smarter and better to heartseek me’. Now they dont.

I repeat this is only for Wvw. There they are overpowered. They absolutely don’t need nerfs in pve or pvp.

Thief is overpowered. end of the story.

In pve and normal pvp? nope. There they are relative nicely balanced there.

In wvw? Crazy overpowered. Way to much damage, way to much cloacking + culling-extensions. Put 2 or more thiefs in a party and they are an immortal, crazy damage force, that cannot be beaten by conventional players skills. If arenanet doesn’t nerf thief in wvw, i’ll continu to lvl my my own thief. Cause thiefs are mandatory in T1 wvw. Yesterday i got sneak-killed 5x by a thief in 20 mins. I used all dodges (+ vigor) defensive skills i had. Even the stun aura (d/d ele), it didn’t work. He spammed 5x heartseeker, even my pve thief cannot do that. I ‘ride the lightning’ed away. He still jumped on me out of nowhere, while I kept running + swiftness. And after 45 secs of struggling I hoped he would be out of initiative. Wrong. He heartseeked me further to dead. Also why in god’s name did Anet give thiefs stuns? The biggest burst class in game (i don’t consider warrior burst, even though they spike higher), with the easiest escape skill in the game, and still give them a stun? Right… They are hard enough to escape. Backstab impossible, cause you can’t see it coming. HP down at least 5k. Then they only must to 10-15k damage. Hearseeking 4x or more and you are dead. Sure you can dodge two of them, and then what? I used the Dagger air skill 3 (stun aura, if they hit you, they get stunned). And somehow it didnt matter, he kept hitting, as thought he wasn’t stunned.

Nerf thief in wvw. Or force me to make one myself to be viable in wvw. You can call this ‘Qqing’ but it’s my honest opinion. I had 4x lvl 80 professions now, soon thief as well. And my opinion is already made. Thief (wvw only) is superior overpowered.

If they mention healing skill, it almost always means ‘the slot 6/hotkey 6’-skill of your skillbar. Basically where there’s always a healing skill. Other skills dont work with it for balance reasons.

Nice fights so far.

And why is SFR winning? Simple they got the biggest armies. And they all have hardcore wvw professions (thief, bunker warrior, bunker ele, bunker guard, pet tank ranger, all the usual ‘i wan’t the easiest profession to kill ppl in wvw’ choices). And SFR has the same playstyle as vizunah. “Always move in a zerg”.

In the 60+ zergs we couldnt beat you guys. (don’t care, we were only 40, and smashes 9 bodies on the ground), in small fight (the few that happen after zerg scatter), you guys lost most of the time.

Basically SFR is the most populated wvw server. Once boredom kicks in (Blacktide was leading, now they are down because lot of people bored).

And maybe SFR wins for the coming two months But after that everyone will hate t1, and even SFR will be bored (no enemies, no fight, and that’s what a 500 vs 300 man situation server causes).

Anyway for now (weekend) we are holding our own. In the week i’m sure we will be crushed, but I don’t care. Only EB matters to me, borderlands are boring (run run run, crap overzerged, run run run, crap overzerged, maybe a few supply caps but that’s it – taking keep after keep (or tower) is way more fun in EB). And if i only count EB score, SFR is loosing quite heavy. They manage to rush the battlefield, but after that they get crushed themself. Good to see ‘zerg only’-hardcore wvw servers, still make mistakes. And when you make your next SFR, i’ll be there to defeat you. (300 kills today, the more the better).

Edit: And to those that say, i’m ‘acting i’m the best’, i’m not. I died 15 times yesterday. The first time i met SFR I underestimated their teamwork. By changing my strategy, and being even more carefull, also changed my build, I did much better. Wasn’t defeated often, while getting loads of kills. But there is way better players then me out there. (Daphoenix for instance, best ele in the world).

Alex.9268:

It is pretty clear at this point that mesmers by design are the slowest out of combat profession in the game.

Focus + blink spam = faster or equal as fast (at least) as perma swiftness. I know this because I play a lot of wvw where everyone has permaswiftness, and my mesmer can keep up the pace with others (swiftness on them). So in fact necro’s are on same lvl, if not worse.

for WVW i strongly DISCOURAGe adding more swiftness to mesmer. They already have never ending clones, each time you think you kill the mesmer, it’s a phantasm. Secondly when they are almost dead, they just decoy, with means stealth + culling (wich is long in a lot of cases). I rarley have been able to catch and defeat a good mesmer in wvw. Now you giving then more escapabilty? No thanks. If mesmer gets this, then necro needs more spammable minions (like clones), and a blink skill. See no reason why mesmer can have reliable summon, blink, everlasting swiftness vs necro with only reliable swiftness (if you sac utility slot of it, and warhorn). We have no cloack either.

They took SM as first. Looks interesting. Lets hope for 3 vs 3 proper battle now. Welcome to seafarer.