f you want to try something different i am having fun with this build . It is not strong as mender meta but it has good burst and a decent survivability . I agree that dps ele is not a thing in pvp. It is something you can play if you don’t care losing . It is fun , you can win 1vs 1 ( not easily ) but if you want to rank up mender meta is much better. If you want to go up with a dps class, i think dps ele is not the best one http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodnMIC9MgdOA+XCcYiFJAztxGZzsCLgAQFcIEMBugA-TJBFABtv/gAnAg+LDAwDAA
If its equal skill, my vanilla condi engi build has yet to lose to a scrapper (came close once in WvW…but not quite).
While I can agree with that in theory (I run wanderer p/p and doubt replacing scrapper would impact my 1v1 killing power vs another scrapper by much), the reason you run scrapper is to get the all-powerfull stomp gyro. That little beauty win fights. I just wish I could slap some lipstick on it, a wig and marry it.
LOL I too run wanderer p/p in PvP and vanilla at that. The build I’m using has won me some tight fights. I even went up vs another vanilla p/p engi (dont know who it was) and they played the build well, however I assume hey were either having a bad night or they were testing the build as they made a few mistakes playing the build.
Went vs a team with a condi scrapper and another condi vanilla and the vanilla put up a better fight (albeit they both lost, but the vanilla did better imo).
Granted the gyro stomp is a bonus, however the build I use, I would be giving up too much to just gain the gyro. (The toughness on condis trait is nice too, but not enough for me to give up one of my trait lines)
All on everyone’s personal taste I guess.
Sorry but people don’t play scrapper for function Gyro. The real difference between scrapper with hammer and other builds is the fact that you have :
– great sustain , you get a lot of regen , much more than without scrapper
- damage and defense on the same weapon so you can have much better condi cleans from utilities .
U have much more sustain with hammer scrapper and you can stay on point. You can not do the same easily with condi engi and it is a huge difference in a capture game
Function Gyro is the only reason about why Scrapper is meta (the only 100%)
With invis + double revive speed scrapper is the best rezzer in the game. Also U can stomp people while U keep fighting, applying poison and cleaving the body.
The sustain and damage is good, U can 1vs1, run between points or support sgainst condis in teamfight but not the best on any of them… so is not the reason why scrappers are meta, other proffesions can do it.
The only UNIQUE thing that scrapper bring to the table and anyone can do, is done by Function gyro…. thats the strongest point on scrapper on PVP and the reason about why is meta since HoT
Probably we are saying different things . There are no other builds as strong as scrapper for engineer . Obviously scrapper gives on the table only Function Gyro as unique feature to meta but people who plays and wants to play engineer and don’t want to change class plays usually scrapper for the balance between sustain and damage, not for function gyro. the mix of sustain and damage is unreachable with all other engineer builds .
I main mesmer and play it well – i can switch to ele and faceroll and do… not as bad …. but my ele play is defendly on a lower skill as my mesmer.
And last season i played a lot warrior at bottom ruby, it destroyed my mmr – now you suggest that people switch to something they can’t play at a competetive level? Great idea…
I suggest only if you play a class that it is hard to work when stacked. It is better to have a medium warrior and a thief than 2 good thieves usually . Mesmer is quite versatile. You can play dps, you can play condi ( it is great ) . In this moment i see the problem especially for thief and necromancer ( for different reasons )
Yep. Those 3 DH should definetly switch to 3 thieves or something. Its the players fault.
Matchmaking can be not perfect but if you remain in a situation in which the match is unfair it is also something you do. Balance is made through paper,scissor , rock rule and at start you have more than one minute to switch and adapt to the other team comp. One can not like paper scissor ,rock game … ok … but it is as is from start …
Balance should not be rock paper scissors.
If you play thief and you are a 10/10 on thief and i play DH and im a 6/10 on DH i should not beat you.
Balance comes from the give and take from a class, we dont have that because of necessary trait lines.
Besides that you cant blame a player base and say switch to druid if you see a DH but if you see a thief or mesmer switch to DH but switch to mesmer or thief when you see a druid.
It needs to be a skilled base game other wise everyone in here should just go play LOL/dota since there are fixed classes to give everyone there role before a match even starts.
Balance should not … but balance is and has always been in this game rock scissor paper… if you want a different balance system you have to change game at the end . Balance is this and if you want to win you have to adapt to it . It is not great, i know … but it is like life goes on …. the less adaptable dies … it is darwinism
I don’t blame anyone . But if you don’t switch quite often you will lose and makes your teammates losing . it is a fact . And there are classes more versatile than others… if you play a class really specialized like thief you know you can have the need to switch more often than a scrapper
Yep. Those 3 DH should definetly switch to 3 thieves or something. Its the players fault.
Matchmaking can be not perfect but if you remain in a situation in which the match is unfair it is also something you do. Balance is made through paper,scissor , rock rule and at start you have more than one minute to switch and adapt to the other team comp. One can not like paper scissor ,rock game … ok … but it is as is from start …
I think that matchmaking is quite good now.
One big problem imho is that people don’t try to play at least 2 classes.
When i see a match with 3 dh against 3 necromancer or 3 thieves and none of them switchs .. .i think the problem is of the player. Class stacking is and can be a problem but for example, if i queue with auramancer and i fall in a party with one or 2 already ele, usually i do one of the 2 things :
– change my build to freshair marauder
– switch to something else ( i play ele, scrapper and chronomancer for most based on team composition ) .
I am in silver and switching i have to say that i am able to stay around 50% of win and not having great losing streak
I think that matchmaking is quite good now.
One big problem imho is that people don’t try to play at least 2 classes.
When i see a match with 3 dh against 3 necromancer or 3 thieves and none of them switchs .. .i think the problem is of the player. Class stacking is and can be a problem but for example, if i queue with auramancer and i fall in a party with one or 2 already ele, usually i do one of the 2 things :
– change my build to freshair marauder
– switch to something else ( i play ele, scrapper and chronomancer for most based on team composition ) .
I am in silver and switching i have to say that i am able to stay around 50% of win and not having great losing streak
Real problem of elementalist is that elementalist can swap traits and amulet realtime during matches but nobody told you that. It is elementalist mechanic : god mode
I am looking to get back into my tempest (currently main druid in WvW, looking to branch out a bit) and ive been looking into different builds that seems good in WvW. I love the damage that air OL provides but I also know that ele is squish so Ive been tinkering with build editors and came up with the following. It looks to combine good damage (tempests usually have natural good sustain), condi cleanse through shouts (as I know earth has a cleanse but I wont immediately remember about it and the condi spam In WvW today takes skill to fight against), earth to reduce DPS damage to me, auras that grant me regen and more damage reduction. Couple ways to get auras both passive and active, teleport for setting up OL from range and blinking on top of enemies. Fresh air cause air OL = OP. Only think is the lack of active safestomp (passive from earth)
Weps give invuln, projectile hate, CC, heals, might stacking and auras.
Let me know what you think, any good modifications that will increase the potential. Constructive criticism only please.
Problem is not that p/p engi is not strong. Problem is that that build is really related to team composition. With scrapper you can , only changing the amulet , play differents role : with mender you can give sustain to your party , with paladin you can do good damage and in any case you last on point. I am silver and i did not many matches but , from what i have seen , in this meta , with random player there are 2 things really important in party : healing your teamfight and bunkering. For this reason i began to play in a different way : if in team there is an ele, i play scrapper, otherwise i switch to mender tempest . How can you manage condi bombers with vanilla engi ? it is a question becouse i really love p/p gameplay but with it i feel often completely useless when fighting condi spammers (necro at first ) and condi warriors or strong mesmers .
What i see in S5, i am silver , is that matchmaking seems to me not so bad. The real problem is , quite often , auto team composition .
When you have a team at low level with 2 necro, 1 mesmer ,1 thief against 2 dh and 2 warriors + something else it is really hard to win .
Probably at higher level this has less impact becouse a strong mesmer for example, can be a problem for everyone and also a strong thief .
I think what people find frustrating is not the mmr difference at lower level but the team composition sometime you get and at lower levels people is reluctant to switch quite often so sometimes, when you start the match , you already know that if your opponents are at your level it will be really hard to win . Probably the system should try in any case to evaluate class stacking if possible
If its equal skill, my vanilla condi engi build has yet to lose to a scrapper (came close once in WvW…but not quite).
While I can agree with that in theory (I run wanderer p/p and doubt replacing scrapper would impact my 1v1 killing power vs another scrapper by much), the reason you run scrapper is to get the all-powerfull stomp gyro. That little beauty win fights. I just wish I could slap some lipstick on it, a wig and marry it.
LOL I too run wanderer p/p in PvP and vanilla at that. The build I’m using has won me some tight fights. I even went up vs another vanilla p/p engi (dont know who it was) and they played the build well, however I assume hey were either having a bad night or they were testing the build as they made a few mistakes playing the build.
Went vs a team with a condi scrapper and another condi vanilla and the vanilla put up a better fight (albeit they both lost, but the vanilla did better imo).
Granted the gyro stomp is a bonus, however the build I use, I would be giving up too much to just gain the gyro. (The toughness on condis trait is nice too, but not enough for me to give up one of my trait lines)
All on everyone’s personal taste I guess.
Sorry but people don’t play scrapper for function Gyro. The real difference between scrapper with hammer and other builds is the fact that you have :
– great sustain , you get a lot of regen , much more than without scrapper
- damage and defense on the same weapon so you can have much better condi cleans from utilities .
U have much more sustain with hammer scrapper and you can stay on point. You can not do the same easily with condi engi and it is a huge difference in a capture game
If its equal skill, my vanilla condi engi build has yet to lose to a scrapper (came close once in WvW…but not quite). Granted I’ve seen a few condi scrappers and vanilla engis and only 1 condi scrapper was pretty skilled and gave me grief. I can go toe to toe vs berserkers (both DPS and condi), condi chromos (better luck in PvP than WvW due to dire not avail) and some plague reapers (not all but have won a fair share of skirmishes). Mallayx rev’s are a big pain.
I’ve played both DPS scrapper and condi engi extensively, and I know my vanilla engi could beat my DPS scrapper (both non meta). If you are getting 1 shotted (which should not happen) then look at your traits. If you took the new ammy that gives vit, you should survive from being hit once (unless its a critted up kill shot). Maybe try Rabid ammy for that toughness. I also have VoD’s on twitch that show some good fights (both 1v1 and outnumbered)
TL;DR Vanilla engi is very strong if you build it properly, shouldn’t get 1 shotted so look at your traits, or maybe watch some vids on some good set up’s / combos / rotations as a condi engi.
it can be true but pvp is a conquest game. i find that with power engi it is much more easy to “stay” on a point and keep it and in a conquest game it is really important. Killing people is only one of the aspect of the game … but neither the most important …
I made few matches. What i found better for me is to play meta but switching amulet by need : i play marauder if team has 2 bunkers , otherwise i play mender. Probably it is a problem of mine but with paladin i feel myself “stacked” in the middle within marauder and mender . When i need to play as bunker i find mender better than paladin , when team need damage i find marauder better than paladin so i am using paladin rarely now , but for now i am stacked in silver … going up and down …
mender scrapper it is really strong too. It has good support and stacking mights it can hit quite hard . I tried both but i found mender scrapper more versatile . I do healer if there is none that can do it better or i can hit quite hard .
Hi, been really loving the changes so far. Here is a build that utilizes all of the buffs. Vamp runes is my personal preference (small dps boost and helps maintain health). Haven’t tested with diamond skin, but it might actually be the better option.
Try to switch arcane with tempest and take marauder, you have a great survivability and good aoe damage from overloads … it is quite strong . I find not having overload a loss
Problem is that it is impossible for Anet to know if your dcd is voluntary or if it is a connection problem. Sometime, for example, it happens to me that my adsl goes down . It is impossible for Anet to know this or if simply i do it by myself. I think that the biggest problems are for players who play with wimax conn or other not wired connections
Hi , how do you see engineer now in this meta ?
i find it really strong as bruiser/bunker ( paladin or mender , i prefer mender ) . Quite strong in 1 vs 1 but not as determinant as before.
Many time i am stacked in really long 1 vs 1 fights. I can survive and the fight seems stale till a teammate arrive to +1 or an enemy arrive to +1 . This meta seems to me quite bunker again .
Now there is a great return : scepter elementalists hit really hard . I tryed marauder freshair with tempest ( scepter focus ) becouse in a match we were already 4 engineer ( 2 and 2 ) and it seemed to me an hard matchup for scrappers . I saw their heal going down quite fast under scepter so it seems to me that this season as scrapper will not be as easy as elder ones ( and i don’t play ele often ) .
I tried 2 matches with condi engi ( new amulet ) . it is stronger against condition but it dies with one hit. I think vanilla condi engi is yet less effective than scrapper .
Elixir Gun is taken because of the area retal, condi cleanse, and weakness it spreads. It’s the best all-around kit, and it also comes with a stun breaker.
As for those that kite you, it’s one of the reasons I just take the Mortar Kit. Endothermic Shell and a 1500 range AoE attack is super valuable in team fights, and you can leap through it for frost armor.
Against thief/guardian heavy teams I swap out Mender for Paladin.
I’ve use Paladin, Demolisher, and Berserker, never tried Mender
And okay, I just don’t know how to use the Elixir gun then
Eg is super strong especially in power ( but i use it quite often in condi setup instead of taking flamethrower ). Eg 4 is really really great for escape
Anyway, just wanted to share with other ppl on this ele forum. I play Fresh Air tempest in ranked queues and I’ve gotta be honest. The buffs to Arcane Shield and Arc Lightning are actually pretty darn good.
Arcane Shield is a lifesaver against thieves, and I use it a lot to make sure my Air Overload lands in the middle of the point for maximum aoe damage. Arc Lightning is buff is a lot more noticeable than I thought it would be, as I can damage fleeing enemies a lot better and it also does wonders against scrappers from afar. (3.5k arc lightning + lightning strikes makes some decent damage)
If either survivability on power tempest was increased or damage on core fresh air ele would be bumped a bit more, we’d be in the great section of the metabattle imo.
It was long time i did not playing freshair so i am not the best champion here. I tried freshair with marauder, air, earth , tempest and i was really impressed. Tempest and focus give you quite good survivability and the damage is really good . i did 3 matches and at first i was afraid to be destroyed and to make lose my team ( after 1 year or so i did not played fresh air) . Instead i found it really consistent , i could win 1 vs 1 ( not always , i am not a pro ) and i was usefull in teamfight . I think now it is really viable .
EG is meta and it is really really strong ( i really love it ) .
I don’t find a great problem the mobility in spvp becouse the fight is around the point. If i am trying to take a point and you run away in any case i don’t chase you to kill you, i prefer to cap the point . If the point is mine and i can not survive the fight usually i don’t try to escape but i try to survive on point as long as i can so that the point remains mine or uncapped as long as possible . It is a completely different story in wvw …
i tried it with classic condi build and new runes , just for trying and it seemed to me really to be really weak . I played a match in which i was killed in seconds by a druid ( bunker ) . At the end we won the match and i killed more than be killed but the team did not win for my new build
Anet, i think this time you do something great. I really like new pvp panel stats and imho there is something really important ( and easy to do ) , something you should have implemented 3 years ago : the death counter. it is really important becouse seeing how often someone dies people realize that there is something wrong with his build, gameplay or rotation . If i see that i die 14 times in a match i can not tell myself .. it is my team bad …
I played paladin for 4 seasons. Now it seems to me that mender is better. I have not real big problem against thieves . i find much easier with mender to fight condi spammer . The only dangerous things that i find now are power mesmer. A strong power mesmer can be really hard especially if it attacks you and you are not ready .
I really love core engi and p/p more than scrapper. i played a lot the classic ft rabid/wanderer P/P build . i was asking myself if with a different amulet, with much more vitality and healing power it could works better. the problem of the classic rabid /wanderer setup is to fight a condi spammer. This was only an idea. In this case it seemed to me invention better than tools for the healing of invention but i could not try it in spvp yet
For scrapper meta i played a lot with Paladin Amulet. Now after a while, going in solo it seemed to me that the same build ( the meta ) or really similar ( i take sigil of intelligence/force and 2 traits changed i think ) with Mender can be better in many situations. What do you think ? Even 1 vs 2 I die but the fight is quite long and if someone comes to help i usually am quite fast to regain health so i find mender engineer really effective in this moment
The only real need on this subject imho is a death counter. People who die 20 times in a match has to see it. I am tired to see people who run and die like a bot in fighting. People have to understand that if you go on a point and die 5 , 6 time in a row in 5 minutes, there is something you have to think about . If u are pure dps , don’t kill anyone and die in seconds there are 2 case : you are using a wrong build or you are playing in the wrong role for your build
the real problem of pvp is the completely lack of build diversity . Every build not meta ( or really similar ) is suboptimal and not viable … or at least viable ( you can win matches but only outplaying your opponents, at the same skill level, without meta you lose )
Tools without toolkit is not strong as invention ( for the condi cleans and for the blind on struck ). firearm is good with rifle becouse it increases your dps and you have lower cd on rifle . what makes this build unviable , imho, is that you have only projectils …. and with all the amount of reflection and projectils distruction it is not that effective . perhaps you could think to change one elixir for a kit ( in that casae you could take explosive instead of firearm and take short fuse and bombs (nades are projectils too ) )
There is no need for elaboration here. Condi mes is currently performing higher than it should given the amount of effort required. Currently condi in general is putting out to much pressure from most specs using this form of damage, however the mesmer is at the front of the condi parade leading strong.
It would be nice to get some adjustments to conditions before the next season, if not to all conditions at least mesmer because this class is where the condi type damage is currently being abused the most.
Engi is also dishing out too much condi pressure, but not many are using it so complaints are low therefore not problematic as mes. It also doesn’t have the sustainability of mes when using core condi engi spec.
Do you try core condi engi ? it is a great spec, with a great burst but it is not fully viable. The reason is not the lack of sustain. The real problem is the lack of condi remove imho . It is a little better for surviving if you take invention instead of tools but you lose a lot ( toolkit is not that good , no kinetick battery …) so you lose defense and dps for 3 more condition cleaned in a minute . It is viable only for fun but if you find a good condi necro , condi mesmer , condi warrior or condi ranger … as condi engi you become quite unusefull. Mesmer on the other hand is much stronger and better, but not stronger than a warrior ,a scrapper , druid … so you have to tune down all togegher, mesmer has already been nerfed a lot
lol you dont seem to get it, it not about who can one shot who. Neither is it about map awareness because that doesnt apply to what im talking about.
The question is what do you do as a mesmer if you get jumped and then one shotted by a thief you cannot see
the only thief that can one shot mesmer is kamikaze one with zerker amy and signets…. that thing has 11k HP and dies to literary anything; not to mention it is one trick pony on long CDs
99% of thieves you see in pvp cannot one shot mesmer…..
also, thank you OP for reminding me what kind of GW2 forums are
trade sword with scepter and say goodbye to thieves …
The problem that I see with Elixir S, Renewed Focus, Mist form and the like is that they do not make you truly invulnerable – you still take condition damage. Condition damage is already broken enough, it bypasses all defenses.
Having condition damage continue to tick when you are invulnerable and unable to do anything is taking something that is broken and letting it be even more broken.
Is there an immunity skill (not an elite ) that make you immune to condition damage and direct damage also ? warrior has 2 skills , one for condition and other for direct damage . I think it would be a little overpowered. In any case when you use elixir S you are “immune” to new conditions … as you don’t take new condition on you. You are hit by conditions you have taken “before” you proc elixir S .. but it is quite obvious imho becouse conditions hit by time. If you block conditions you already have, like resistance , you cancel a damage you get “before” you proc the elixir.
The listed skills prevent you from using other skills. You can die while invulnerable to condition damage, therefore you are not invulnerable and it is misleading. There is no way to break out of these skills once activated. Elixir S has an auto-proc at 25%. I have died many times to condition damage because of that trait locking me into a 3.75 second skill lockout. It would not broken if these invulnerable skills that prevent use of skills blocked condition damage as well, it would start to restore the power creep of conditions.
You can not take auto-proc trait, it is not mandatory . Other 2 in the same place are also really good
2 Question of transmute
How transmute really works ? Every 15 seconds ,the first condition that arrived to me is converted in to a boons ? or all the conditions arriving within a seconds are converted into boons ? ( i think the first one ) .
Are you sure that a build with alchemy without elixirs is better as condition removal of a build with inventions ? It is just a question becouse when i play alchemy tools firearms i feel myself really weak to condition damage .
The first condition (single) is converted into a boon. Also, if I’m not mistaken, only 1 stack is converted. So if you get 10 stacks of bleed, you’ll end up with 9 stacks of bleed and whatever it is converted to.
I have to double check the last part tho..
it is quite weak ….. not that great respect to invention …
2 Question of transmute
How transmute really works ? Every 15 seconds ,the first condition that arrived to me is converted in to a boons ? or all the conditions arriving within a seconds are converted into boons ? ( i think the first one ) .
Are you sure that a build with alchemy without elixirs is better as condition removal of a build with inventions ? It is just a question becouse when i play alchemy tools firearms i feel myself really weak to condition damage .
I beg to differ on that point. Engis have access to many ways to remove conditions; terrible isn’t really a fair description.
The Alchemy line gives lots of condition mitigation, as well as Elixer skills and condition reducers from other sources.
without scrapper at least in spvp the only weakness i feel on engi is condition cleaning.
Alchemy (alone without invention ) is quite situational : every 15 secs you clean “incoming” conditions. If a necro has already resend you all conditions they don’t get clean . With invention you have a +1 condition removed when you use an heal skill . For healing turret you arrive at 9 condi cleans for a minute, not bad but not great . The great advantages of scrapper are that you have a block on weapon , so you can avoid to take toolkit for example take elixir C ( i prefer it to gyro ) or purge gyro and that you don’t need an offensive trait. If you play without scrapper you have to take firearms or explosive and 2 between alchemy invention ,tools. if you don’t take tools you have a great loss of dps , if you don’t take alchemy you lose elixirs utility (cd reduction and might) and if you don’t take invention you are weaker to condi damage . The ideal build is alchemy ,invention + something else, but with condi and ft losing tools is an heavy loss …
Uh no, they’re really not. Please provide examples.
Eg. Rifle is worse than HoT weapons because it is high risk, low reward and provides no defensive cooldowns. Plus, its attacks are projectiles which are countered and reflected by practically everything these days.
Flamethrower is awkward to use and is plagued by retaliation problems in WvW.
Rifle is great for pve content … it is much more fun to use it than hammer and for normal pve content (perhaps for raid is not ok ) rifle + explosive, bombs and mortar is enough as damage. I use also it quite often in fractal and it is not that bad . For standard pve the dps loss is not so meaningless but it is more fun
with condi engi if you use rabid you can manage them in 1 vs 1 . Usually i put down box of nails and then i dodge or use ft for blinding. the idea is to avoid first attack ( block on toolkit is good too ) and then condispam them . It is not an impossible matchup with condi engi ( condi necro , condi warriors and some rangers /mesmer are much harder to fight 1 vs1 imho ) . After you spam of condition a thief he will reset the fight, he will clean condi and he will come back immediatly. Usually so , for killing a staff thief, you need 2 fights , one is not enought with a condi build
The problem that I see with Elixir S, Renewed Focus, Mist form and the like is that they do not make you truly invulnerable – you still take condition damage. Condition damage is already broken enough, it bypasses all defenses.
Having condition damage continue to tick when you are invulnerable and unable to do anything is taking something that is broken and letting it be even more broken.
Is there an immunity skill (not an elite ) that make you immune to condition damage and direct damage also ? warrior has 2 skills , one for condition and other for direct damage . I think it would be a little overpowered. In any case when you use elixir S you are “immune” to new conditions … as you don’t take new condition on you. You are hit by conditions you have taken “before” you proc elixir S .. but it is quite obvious imho becouse conditions hit by time. If you block conditions you already have, like resistance , you cancel a damage you get “before” you proc the elixir.
