Guild Wars 2

Seriously?

I did the math AGES ago (to prove this point to someone else in my personal life), but essentially, since you make back the money you’d spend on crafting tools about 10 fold by both exploration (events and map opening, not to mention dungeons, etc) and through selling excess mats after a time, this whole using up thing is silly. Carry enough or just pop back to a merchant and buy more.

It really doesn’t take THAT much time or energy to do this in game and it gives you time to clear inventory as well. I just…what?

Why is this even a thing?

DanteZero.9736:

So GW1 armor is making a return in the form of outfits. Ok. I give this first attempt a 55/600. Nice work.

I see what you did there.

I’ve also played since beta and I actually like the new system overall. Not happy about maybe needing to regear about half my toons but overall happy with it. It gives me something to do.

Ricky.4706:

yep, gw2 has gotten very play by numbers.

now all we need is ai to run our characters so we can just watch gw2 unfold.

New Feature: just start the game and watch!

You joke, buuuut…..

Yeah. There is an old tabletop gaming saying: Don’t give the GM ideas.

Isn’t the large “Lion’s mane” Jellyfish the new “Lion” over the entire court? That’s what I assumed at least.

Egon Vidar.9125:

All people want is representation. I’m not saying rainbow dye is the absolute best way to do it, though it doesn’t hurt. But when almost all you see in media is one specific type of person, when there’s so much incredible diversity in the world, it becomes, well. A bit of a downer to be in one of those marginalized groups. You know what marginalization means, yes?

Yes, as a Puerto Rican male that has been slammed against a car by 5 white cops for having the “audacity” to walk through Spanish Harlem on a Saturday morning, I know full well what it is to be marginalized, tyvm.

As someone who’s had a gay friend jumped and beaten simply because they were gay, i know what its like to see people hurt due to another ignorance.

As someone who is frankly terrified for his 2 young daughters and the world that still insists on dictating to them what their gander can and can’t do, i get it. Really I do.

Here’s what you seem to be missing from my statement above, and that is, I don’t mind it when it is meaningful or helps in some way with the plot, etc. I genuinely liked the Marjory/Kas thing, not only because they are a couple, but because they actually touched upon the fact that not everyone in this world of Tyria is necessarily OK with it. THAT is a good way to put a social message in the game without beating people over the head with it.

In Last of Us, the info gleaned about Bill and his partner was very well done and was full of feels, and they way it was all delivered in game was done in such as way as to make it both meaningful without being preachy.

Simply adding X group into a game or X message into the game because they have some some kitten in their lives, and then doing so as a dye in support of, or some other we put this here cuz reasons, frankly cheapens the message and the issues they actually deal with day in and day out. it trivializes the whole thing and makes Anet look more like they are saying “look at us! we’re inclusive!” So what?

maybe they need to put in a mini pet llama with a “Save Tibet” banner over its back. Oh wait, no, they can’t do that if they want to still sell the game in China.

Not to mention the act of doing so means nothing outside of the game and ultimately amounts to naval gazing.

Anet has already shown their support loud and clear for the LGBTQ community time and time again, and its great, but everyone and everything doesn’t need to have their own personal soap box in the game. This isn’t the capitol square of Madison, WI on a Saturday morning where every group, big and small, needs to come out with their banners. Save it for the real world.

While i agree on some of that, I think they also just killed certain builds either through not realizing how those were played or literally not caring that they were putting some people behind the eight ball on certain builds.

I’m not liking the idea of having to rebuy different armor sets and having to re-earn and burn more laurels for trickets on toons that were/had solid builds just to make them viable with the new trait spreads.

Yeah, i can see it now. Thread after thread after thread of “oh can you guys also add in an area where we can show our support for the banning of obtaining a slow loris as a pet?”, or “Can we buy ‘X’ color dye in support of ‘X’ cause?”

Can we just stop.

I love that Anet is and has been as inclusive in their world’s lore for same sex couples, transgender, physically disabled, etc but seriously. Enough. They don’t have to add literally every marginalized group into their lore just because they exist in our world and are marginalized there. We get it. We do.

Should they model and add in someone with Downs Syndrome? Perhaps someone struggling with Schizophrenia?

I’m all for games trying to tackle hot button social issues when appropriate to the game and over all message therein, but when its just thrown in there like this, it not only feels forced, but out of place and unnecessary.

Shadow.1345:

The ones in favor of this system mean the diversity of more viable builds instead of being locked into a stale meta where one or two builds worked and the rest were scrub builds.

Here’s the thing though, I felt there was TONS of diversity and room to experiment in the other system.

While some might consider certain builds non-viable, they still allowed people to play the game their way. Also, people geared up with respect to the stat points they gained through traits as well.

Now while I’m glad they removed that from being tied to trait lines, they also made certain other builds categorically impossible to make, and the closest ones to the those builds that you can make now also require reinvestment in new gear, which is ridiculous.

I feel really bad for my wife because she had a kind of hybrid damage/heal support build she did with her pet that actually worked really well for her and in group play, and now that build is gone and this toon was her main since the start.

So as to not clutter up anyone else’s post:

I’ve stated a few places already that some of my core toons’ builds are pooched. My support Guardian build is not the same, but i might be able to hobble a new one together and hope my armor stats hold for it. My DPS Guardian build seems hosed at the moment until I get new armor, which doesn’t make me very happy. Well, maybe not completely hosed, but I am now WAY WAY WAY more fragile and will melt to a stiff breeze if it blind sides me. My more power based Guardian is faring a little better, but i still need to do some more tweaks on her build as well.

I’m still really upset about my engie. She doesn’t feel right anymore for some reason. I’m going to have to come back to her later, but given how much time I’ve played her…yeah. Just feels like I’m driving someone else’s car with their seat and mirror settings for some reason.

My life siphon necro is actually MORE fun to play now, especially in PvE. Health for days and goofy amounts of “come at mew bro”.

My condi necro though…feels like slogging through mud for some reason.

My healing/support warrior: Not too sure about her. She seems like she is playing right, but I just…yeah. The build isn’t quiet the same anymore, but I just have to really put her through some other content to really see where she stands.

My DPS warrior(s) seem just fine. Not much changed for them and the things that did seem to benefit them, so yeah.

My power/crit thief doesn’t feel like she is hitting as hard for some reason, and my other thief which had 3 distinct builds…well:

Her power sword-pistol whip build i’ve not tested yet, her dual pistol build is wrecked, but her condi build is WOW, a bit OP at the moment. Fun, but yeah, a touch OP with the condi stacks. I was actually killing things faster on her than on my other thief.

I’ve yet to really get into my mesmer, but something tells me she will be like my siphon necro and be more fun now than before. Will have to test and see.

Ranger: My ranger hasn’t felt it too much (I don’t think), but i don’t play him that much either. I feel bad for my wife though as her ranger build was 86’d.

I was already planning on rebuilding my ele from the ground up with new gear before this patch dropped so she is waiting in the wings until I am ready to really test her out.

I think that’s all of them.

All in all, I’m not angry with the new set up, but more sad that only 1 or 2 of my builds really seemed to come out of this unscathed or better than they were while so many others are either broken or feel “off” and might only be fixed with new gear and time.

Teh only major misstep I see with this new trait system was Anet taking it upon themselves to assign any trait points to anyone, thereby forcing them to play builds and in ways they don’t want to without giving them any recourse to reassign the auto assigned hero points.

That was rude and basically was Anet telling players to literally play the way Anet thinks you should play.

They need to give sub 80 characters the ability (even if its a one time thing) to reassign the hero points on their trait lines. It literally ruined the game for many people, my wife included and I can understand her rage at the game and at Anet for this one.

We already knew some builds would be broken and boy howdy did they break them. I’m sure there are others that can be made, but right now I’m just seeing a lot of the same builds being used (same as before) only this time there is less diversity in those builds.

Maybe the meta will change some more in the coming weeks, but as of right now, meh. About half my toons are shelved because they aren’t viable and I might be forced to buy new armor and trinkets just to make them valid again and i don’t have the gold or the time to grind it out at the moment.

I believe Lanfear already said that they were willing to do the extra work, fight the harder fights, etc to get the same thing.

Its what many of us in small guilds with low recent rep have been saying a ll along. Only everyone else is trying to say we want the guild halls with no effort.

At one point my guild was about 28 strong with about 6-10 of us on at any one point.

Now there are 3 of us that get on randomly and usually its me thats on the most.

I don’t have the time due to real life to try to bolster my numbers again especially since megaservers killed recruitment along with the billion other guilds vying for people. So basically because my guild lost active members I should be penalized and told I can’t get a core feature of the expansion unless I plead for help from others?

I earned everything that I had for my small guild in GW1. My wife and I almost single handledly unlocked every feature of that guild hall and we used it a place for solace and to jump to places we wanted to play in GW1. It was ours and we had pride in that. No, the place in LA is not the same thing.

Yup. Late.

Tomes were taken out and replaced with those 2 new skills.

It is going to take a good amount of gold grind for me to get my toons back to a fairly playable place.

Between runes, gear, and testing new builds that is a lot of time and in game money that has to be spent just to get to a place where I like playing my toons again.

Some of it might be fun, but for the most part it feels like a slog.

I had an awesome banner build on my warrior that I LOVED playing in PvE when helping new people with some larger events and that build is gone. Trying to come up with something similar ha been a pain and makes me not want to play that toon even though I’ve invest a ton into her since launch.

Catalyph: spec for condi damage, wait for another condi player to try to explode on you, auto pass condi back to them.

Profit.

Can we at least get the name of the trait line to show? Giving it new icons and pictures is great, but they mean nothing to me at the moment so I have to hover over it, see which one it is, then try to remember the 3 active ones before trying to select another one and AAAARRGGG…labels. I like them. Give them please.

You didn’t have to follow the meta before. In fact I’d say there is MORE of a meta now. My engie build? Well it WAS fun to play. Now I have to choose between damage and speed, or staying alive and being left in the dust by others if I miss their speed boosts. My grenade build is meh, and so I’m left with stacking condi to be viable.

My banner build was AWESOME for PvE support and even some WvW support (with a few tweaks), and now there is no more banner build for me unless I want to use a weapon set that I hate, and even then its a shadow of its former self.

While I agree its more of an adjustment issue than an OMG no more builds exist issue, the fact still remains that many builds that people did use and which were viable are now broken and new metas are in place which are also broken in a different way.

I used to delight in seeing how odd of a build I could make and now I feel like I am on rails with builds. This isn’t fun for me and for many others.

Yeah, while I was looking forward to getting a guild hall, I’m pretty sure that if I buy HoT, that such a thing will not be within my reach.

Trying to build up and maintain members without forcing them to rep and play on my schedule is just too much. I like the idea of giving players a safe/fun place to go to play with one another and do fun things without requiring them to play my way or what have you, but if I wanted a guild hall I’d have to pretty much dictate that they a) do what I put forward to them and b) make them buy an expansion just to help get the guild hall in the first place.

Simbosan.2863:

It’s a ridiculous idea to reduce the lines to 3. For example, to have the one and only warrior trait that applies to bows, you are stuck with the shout traits. So if you were a banner user, you pretty much have to give up bows and use rifle.

It’s not an improvement in choice, you are now forced into certain combinations

Engies have also gotten the raw end of the deal on this same kind of breakdown.

I’d be more OK with it, if other classes didn’t also seem to make out like bandits on this update.

Unfortunately they already said this was the lesser of evils they had in front of them, so don’t expect this to get any traction. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m with all of you 100% on this one.)

Maybe they will get to it after some skill balancing that is quite broken at the moment among some other things, but until then, just push through and try to get to 80 as fast as possible. I know that’s not ideal, but once level 80 you can make whatever build you most desire.

Hmmm, all this medi guard talk. I have to see this in action as I thought it was broken on first glance last night. Perhaps it was because I was trying to figure it all out at midnight after being exhausted.

OK, look, anyone who went into this patch thinking game balance wasn’t going to break horribly is just painfully new around these parts.

Things are going to be woefully broken for a while. Then they will start pulling things back, reworking damage formula and how certain skills pop off. Just let them know what you see as broken and hope they make your issue a priority. Just don’t hold your breath.

Frankly this has been way too comical.

I’m going to enjoy my broken builds same as I enjoyed using perplexity runes to kill kids in snowball fights back when that first came out.

(Talk about something I wasn’t eager for them to fix.)

Just roll with it if you plan on staying on the crazy train. I think it will work out/even out in the end. Let’s just hope it evens out before they drop HoT and have to deal with all of THOSE balance issues. Because yes, there WILL be balance issues.

So as to not hijack another person’s thread (although if it must be merged later with another I get it):

OK, so I’ve had some time to think about things.

First I want to say that while I’ve not even gone through LA just yet, I’ve heard some great things and I’m honestly very excited to tour it. Good job on that front for sure.

Also, thank you for getting the PS straightened out with new voice acting no less. Also good job.

I also want to say that I get where you are going with the skill and trait unlocking system, and although I’m not 100% on board with the implementation its not something I can get all rawr about. I will address one major issue I have with it, but its still small compared to some of my other issues that are more class specific.

I know a lot of people will be complaining about their builds being destroyed, and to be honest some builds have been completely wrecked. Completely. Other builds though, have been subtly crippled in ways that I REALLY can’t sit by and not comment on.

On engies, for instance, we now have to decide if we want to have our almost perma swiftness or survivability. This is a big problem since mobility is key for (IMO) all game modes, but to have to lose out on things like backpack regenerator and other defensive/healing buffs makes an engie WAY more squishy than they should be. Especially when other classes seemed to retain a fair mix od damage, movement, survivabilty across their trait lines. I just feel that either or scenario for the engie is a bit harsh.

Of all the classes I think Mesmers made out the best as they only seemed to get even more powerful with this update. Mark my words: purple butterflies will be EVERYWHERE. So I guess if you’re a mesmer you will be insanely happy.

Support warrior? Meh, maybe in PvE where it doesn’t matter, but I know I liked playing support with banners and shouts, and I feel a lot less effective now in that roll with my warrior. As for my Guardian…in limbo at this point and time. Neither my support boon/heal set up or my Zerk-Medi build feel viable anymore, and what builds seem like they should work, feel WAY clunky to me.

And speaking of clunky: who’s idea was it to split the active effect of steal to f2? Who said to do that? I want them in here now. This one change to muscle memory made me miss combos that almost got me killed a few times in Orr last night. I can’t even imagine how badly I would have been rolled in PvP or WvW when testing the build. This was a seriously bad idea. PLEASE change this function back to being on the F1 key. Please. I really hate it and cannot see others liking it.

I’m still testing builds out and seeing what will and won’t work moving forward, but yeah..many builds are just garbage now.

As for skill/trait line unlocking: Its bad enough that we cannot unlock skills in the order we want anymore, but if I have a toon that maybe doesn’t have enough points to unlock everything, please don’t assume which trait lines I want/should have open first. Just leave them locked and let me decide uopn logging in which ones I want to go with.

More to come later tonight once I’ve had more time in the new system.

Wow, condi stacking fire burns melting people.

I get that you all couldn’t catch EVEYTHING, but someone HAD to stop and say “hey guys, think we should see what it would be like to make the most min-maxed version of this condi build, then have them and someone else explode on someone in a PvP match” just test if it was broken BEFORE release? I mean seriously, 5 minutes of testing this scenario. I can’t believe no one thought that this would happen right?

And yes, the passive, I’m just gonna send these condi stacks back into your face from necros.

I’m going to abuse the daylights out of that one.

Look, if any of you know my posting history as of late you know i’ve not been the biggest Anet cheerleader, BUT i think this new system is going to be more of “get used to it and maybe get some new armor” rather than some “OMG broken gamez!” thing.

I already know a good number of my builds are wrecked.

Just have to get back to the drawing board I guess and see if its worth my time to make new builds or not.

Well see, regarding consume condition:

Obviously necros are far too tanky and able to wreck people too easily with a heal that works best when you try to hold onto as many conditions as possible to maximize the heal you get. See this isn’t dangerous enough play for a necro so to make it more fair, they now get to clean the condi but ALSO have to deal with the additional condi after the fact in some other way while trying to also be viable in combat.

See, totes fair.

And TOTALLY sarcastic tone on my part in case you missed it.

This is a silly change Anet. Please don’t.

Yeah, gotta echo the fact that the dual pistol build i was rocking will be completely worthless.

Good job.

:/

Also, nice to know that the only damage dealing build that’s remotely viable for Guardians is spinning with his great sword in his own retaliation symbol.

PU Mesmers are going to be even more of a pain to deal with and I’m going to have to completely rework my engie.

Good times. :/

So, was the “running off the edge and making an idiot follow you while to teleported back up” THAT much of an issue that Spectral walk needed to change?

really.

One of the few really fun things to do in EoTM without derailing the k-train there and you took it away? Why?

If HoT were a standalone game and Anet was “gifting” the core game to them I’d be less prickly about this, but Anet already admitted that you NEED the core game to play HoT.

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

No one has ever said they have not put in lots of work on the xpac. What we are saying is that the pricing and bundling are shady/dubious and a good many people won’t be buying into it.

I know I’m going to be “speaking with my wallet” this time around. I have other games coming out in the next year I know I will get far more enjoyment out of than GW2.

This was a bad move on their part. Full stop.

OK. Its honestly amazing to me the level of selective memory people seem to have here.

Here’s a car analogy in case you’re still confused for some reason:

Car company sells a bunch of people a car for 500 dollars. Some buy it with a few extra features for 600 dollars. Over 3 years those people get a few tweaks and upgrades to the car and even pay for a few upgrades themselves, sometimes spending way more than they did on the car in the first place.

Then one day the car company announces they are putting out a new engine for the car that will come with a nitro boost feature among other things and really try to sell the new engine to their existing customers and new ones. They also explicitly state that the engine won’t work without the car, and that you WILL need the car to even use the engine. The engine is literally worthless without the car.

They then help some people get the car for a kitteneaper than before. Great, fine.

They then set up the engine for sale, but wait:

The engine costs 500 dollars
If you don’t have the car, they are including it for free for you BUT…
If you already have the car, you only get the engine for the same price others get both
If you are a completely new buyer, you also happen to get the nitro boost option BUT
If you are already a car owner and want that option you can pay 600 dollars to get it

Remember, the engine is USELESS without the car.

This is categorically unfair to the ones that have already owned and dropped money on the car they have already. It is dubious and no amount of White knighting can erase this fact.

I see no reason to give Anet anymore money and am frankly | | this close to reporting Anet for dubious business practices.

Wow.

Someone hasn’t been playing since GW1 I see.

THOSE expansions were full on stand alone games in their own right with 2 new classes for each one AND if you already owned one of the prior games you got 2 free slots to allow you to experience the new classes after buying the expansions.

THIS expansion is not a standalone game (as per Anet), doesn’t have the same amount of content as the core game (as per Anet), is nowhere as expansive physically as the core game (as per Anet), and can ONLY be played if you have the core game already. Yet they are selling it to everyone at the same price as if it were a full game unto itself and brand new players are getting the game we’ve all paid for “for free” and us vets get the pleasure of paying the same amount for less content.

Its insulting.

100% unacceptable Anet.

You knew you were (self admittedly I might add) producing and going to deliver an expansion to your game that was not its own stand alone game. You KNEW that the only way you could play it was if you already owned the core game, so you knew that the only way to get new players in was to make a bundle that included the core game, that many of us paid 60+ for, and some of us have dropped hundreds to thousands of dollars in in the 3 years we’ve played it, and now you are trying to those vets on this expansion at the same price you are selling it to new players when it doesn’t have nearly the same content that the core game has AND charge the amount of a full game?! To add insult to injury, you are introducing a new class and not even offering a single free slot to people getting into the game for this??? WHAT?!

Not sure if you realize it, since you were busy doing your thing at E3, but a good many companies and studios introduced some INSANELY popular things to be coming in the next year. Games that will be earning my money. All you’ve done is find ways to not want anymore of mine.

If you think server pop is poor now, just wait.

Enjoy bleeding the new players until they feel burned. At the rate you are going you will disenfranchise them within 6 months if you’re not careful.

This seems very anti small guilds actually.

So yeah…good job on messing up even guild halls in this game.

Its not separate.

Its like you just bought a pretty nice car, and the dealer says they are offering some upgrades to your car. These upgrades mean nothing and do nothing without the car itself, but add functionality to the car itself. Problem is they will sell you and someone else the upgrades at the same full price of your current car and then some. They will get the car with the upgrades and you just get the upgrades because you already own the car (And already paid for the car previously).

Yet somehow Anet thinks this is a good business decision.

Batelle.1680:

The EP is $50, and people who pre-purchase it get the base game for free. It’s a marketing ploy to attract new players and it’s only a rip-off if you consider the three years of game time, temporary story and event content, and free living story content to be < the price you paid for the game originally.

Its not a marketing ploy. You can’t play the xpac without the core game.

Its a rude slap in he face/money grab for every single veteran player.

ham.8209:

Weylin.6478:

Don’t you dare do it, people falling for this gouging ripoff will only justify this kind of nonsense even more in the future.

Look,
The core game is $40
The core game + expansion is $50
If you already own the core game, you still have to pay $50

How is this OK in any way?!

you never played Guild Wars one did you ;/

You mean the game which had expansions that were, in their own rights, fully fleshed out and playable games in and of themselves that only expanded the universe they were in AND gave free character slot upgrades to existing owners so they could hit the ground running with the new classes introduced in their games with RACH expansion? THAT guild wars 1?

Yeah, back when Anet cared more about the game and players than by how much money they could try to trick them into paying them.

azizul.8469:

can we have xpac only edition ? we already have the core game.. what would the existing players do with the core game that come free with it ? we wouldn’t be able to separate it anyway….

Sure, one day. Until then you won’t get to be in any of the beta stuff and Anet doesn’t care that this might actually drive players away.

Deceiver….please…

Let’s not lie to ourselves here. This is the pricing for everyone. Period.

Let’s also not forget that while an extra character slot is 10 USD they are selling the version of this expansion for 75 USD, or basically 25 dollars more than the standard version without an additional character slot.

And no, that other nonsense in game cosmetic fluff is not worth the additional 15 dollars there. The slot should have been a part of the standard package, but hey greed wins out again I guess.

Andraus.3874:

It’s old Greg.

HA! Oh wow, I haven’t seen that referenced in ages.

So, wait…OP, you said you found someone in WvW to finally duel, but then lamented that you killed them as fast as you did so you somehow think that open world dueling in PvE will somehow be better?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

Oh man…thanks, I needed that laugh.

As someone else pointed out, and i was also mentioning to my wife just last week: sylvari bodies are far more “real human shaped” than the humans in the game AND they are animated waaaaaaay more realistically/better than the humans as well.

Both funny and sad really when you think about it.

Combination of life getting more hectic/needing my attention that I could no longer dedicate to WvW as often and then my server imploded a bit.

I’ll go in occasionally and roam more instead of focusing on home defense, but i might do that more after HoT comes out if (IF) I have the time freed up for it.

There is a reason opening a BLC is like playing a slot machine in both look and feel. That’s all it is. The key is just your coin for the machine.

If you don’t want to buy keys (like me) and don’t mind doing some mind-numbing work for it, you can still farm the keys on an open account slot and usually get a completed ticket once a month if you play as casually as i do these days, or even faster if you are tome-ing up to 10 then blazing through the human commoner line.

Either way, its just a gamble and its one that you can take risk free by doing some low level map opening and completing the first PS story step over and over again.

Not to mention the gold you can passively make by gathering mats in those areas and just selling them off while doing that opening and PS story step.

Music.

For me the music and the people behind it are awesome. Its one of those things that is rarely appreciated in games, but they are definitely keeping the bar high in GW2 on that front.

Always loved the art from them as well. Especially all the places they’ve snuck in new splash screen art at the start of the different PS instances.

Rhyse.8179:

Cuz he brown noses to the queen.

Literally.

Sorry, but you know its true.

1- Pulling aggro in GW2 is different because we don’t have “the trinity”.
2- KS, and open world PvP go counter to the core values Anet set forth when making this game in the first place. Also, a vast majority of people don’t want that in the game.
3- To that end, there is plenty of trash talking and harassment in the game already. Asking for it to be a thing that can happen on a grander scale is frankly obnoxious.

Guild Halls are in fact coming, but I promise you if they make it some limited resource only available to specific groups of players based on something like guild size or wealth they will see a very sudden drop in players and some less than cordial posts on this forum and other locations around the web. Basically a bad move if they were to follow your suggestion.

You want unbalanced fights, go into WvW as part of a server with a low WvW population. Enjoy getting zerg rolled. Really, its a blast.

In all seriousness, if these are the things you want most in your MMO experience then this is the last game you want to be playing. Not being glib, just being truthful.

Please lets not also forget the lore reason for the flame legion CASTER classes being the ones standing more upright. They are the ones that lorded over the other Charr and took that posture as a means of establishing dominance over the other Charr.

Since they don’t roll that way anymore, it makes sense that they stand in their more natural posture.