Guild Wars 2

Unleashed.6195:

Puandro.3245:

I see no math on how you arrived to the base damage calculation, all i see is a made up number for base damage and then you added damage multipliers to it. Your rotation is also wrong for GS and Axe.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ZjcOtvZPKPMxBEzjhIIKC1D7YDbjUByA-jQyAYLBZiQgoCwJvioxW4KiGraBTVuoalLg3gRrGA-e

Base damage calculation is the base damage listed for each ability on gw2skills.net with the gear builds linked. I’m not near a game client to see what they are in game. Either way, they changed (when I compared to the two in game and on the site before) relative to one another. Whether the base is 100 or 641, the increases will be similar in terms of percentage. As Disc does not work off of bleeds, nor does it add any other flat damage amounts but always percentages, the base is meaningless. 100 going to 150 is no different from 641 going to 961.5.

What do you feel is the optimal rotation for either? It’s quite easy to edit. (Calling Axe a rotation is hilarious too, I know, it’s just auto-attack endlessly…).

I suggest you start here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1jau9a/an_explanation_of_basic_gw2_theorycraft/

No axe is not auto attack endlessly and GS is not HB + AA.

The proper rotation is

GS
1 Auto attack, not the full chain.
GB
WW
weapon swap so you end up behind the enemy, that will give you 4 hits doing it properly and not have to run back.

Axe is
Cyclone Axe
Fill in with Maxe #4/5
Axe #1
Cyclone Axe as it comes up

Doing this properly (which is super easy) will let you maximize both weapons strengths.

Unleashed.6195:

Puandro.3245:

Pure axe does not do more dps than Axe/GS and has never done so.

I welcome the math on that as well. Spreadsheets are up, tell me where I’ve blown it.

I see no math on how you arrived to the base damage calculation, all i see is a made up number for base damage and then you added damage multipliers to it. Your rotation is also wrong for GS and Axe.

Unleashed.6195:

Well, this is where I stumble on the obvious thing that had eluded me before. Looking at the spreadsheet as I put it up there I noticed that much of the issue with the hard logging came from my trying to use the 30/0/0/10/30 at an ability level above my own, timing swaps to 100b and back out perfectly, wasting 100b strikes.

What if I played 30/0/0/10/30 the same way I’d recommend playing 30/30/0/10/0?

Full Axe + 30/0/0/10/30 as it turns out is the absolute highest dps. If you’re a pro at timing swaps, it’s still better DPS than switching to 100b.

Even better, its worse case DPS #‘s are in line with Arms best case while it’s best case numbers are higher than anything else I’ve calculated. I’ve updated the google doc with a tab called “30 Disc Training Wheels”.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCHNWXHft5SdFR6WkR4R2JxSS1xcHlZc1FEa195R0E#gid=3

Conclusion: Get good at swapping as you can, carry axe/mace and axe/axe or axe/sword, leave GS for fights were the mobility is required.

Pure axe does not do more dps than Axe/GS and has never done so.

Xsorus.2507:

I love how look at all the conditions you’re dead is now the new meta, even though i’ve been doing it since last year hehehe

It’s more of, condi necros, now you are dead.

Another entertaining video.

If you guys arent tunning regen banners with apothecary gear you are missing out.

sinject.4607:

dooger.2640:

1 thief can kite evade an entire faction after him in wvw for hours.

No worries thief god mode is still unchecked.

this is just wrong.
thieves always will have one of the lowest health pools in the game, have no invulnerability/blocking nonsense, have medium armor, and are generally forced to spec for high damage lest you do far too little.

warriors literally have god mode with endure pain, a 3.75 stun on a 7 sec cooldown (the thief elite skill basilisk venom only stuns for 1.5 seconds and is on a 45 sec cooldown)

face it, warriors need to be nerfed badly. thieves can be countered easily. there is no counter for this bullkitten.

No counter? You mean D/P or S/D isn’t a counter?

I suggest a Geomancy Sigil on both weapons.

Excalibur.9748:

oZii.2864:

Excalibur.9748:

@oZii…there’s a huge difference between a thief in stealth and a warrior not in stealth.

The thief is in stealth..what is he doing? He’s regening health…or running away…he can’t do anything else.

Take a minute think about this for a second. Think about how a thief plays and what he uses stealth for. Then you will realize anybody that doesn’t have a thief will think it is hilarious that you ask this question and anyone who has a thief will also think it’s hilarious.

When a thief is in stealth he is doing what he normally does you just play normally while getting 470 hps.

so trying to get some damage off during stealth is not normal? As soon as you deal any damage at all you lose the 470 hps. whatever you do during stealth besides for running away or regening health will break the 470HPS.

While you’re running around not attacking, the warrior is attacking you AND regenning more HP than you with healing signet and adrenal health.

Except the thief still can use his #6 heal but the warrior cant.

Furajir.3815:

If you ever come Yak’s Bend way, gimme a shout.

No bads allowed.

Lightning get your kitten ready tuesday. I have Ele/Warrior/Ranger/Mesmer with multiple builds. Also have a Thief and Necro but i dont havr much experience on those.

I rolled a warrior in sPvP and tanked the whole team on graveyard with healing signet with m/s + gs usjng zerk amulet, killed them all too. This is OP.

LightningBlaze.4913:

It’s time Paundro! Welcome back to tier 1!

So it seems, i should be able to do it tuesday afternoon.

Still going to steal them from rangers.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Puandro.3245:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Puandro.3245:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Can anyone from BG or TC (that is not a necro) defeat Twin Scroll 1v1 against his warrior? I wreck my brain out trying to find an opening to get him down but it was completely impossible when his mace/shields cd is low while regenerating health per seconds, his main stun cd also low and duration is insanely high once caught while your stunbreakers are on cd. Being a bunker yet still have great amount power and critical dmg made him invincible for me. I have defeated many other warriors with this mace/shield, gs stun lock build with my s/d burst non-glass cannon ele but he was an exception during the many duels we fought.

The signet buffs makes warriors no longer weak to consistent damage like it was before when healing surge was the only thing viable. Basically if you cant burst a warrior you wont kill him (assuming he is tanky enough). Its kind if like your ele, consistent damage wont kill you but burst will.

I know this Paundro but there was not enough opening to burst him down and you know I can burst very bunker players (with 3000+ of armor). There were many ways for him to avoid my burst and still keep constant pressure on me. He was very bunker yet bursty as well. I completely doubt even a glass cannon thief would be able to output enough dmg to burst him down because Twin Scroll will avoid most of the damage with block, endure pain or stun to interrupt even if the thief ambushes him in mid fight plus a glass thief will get nuked fast and easy.

What server is this guy on? I still havent lost to a mace/gs warrior yet but i know you are good and know their counters before the signet buff patch so its interesting you are having issues.

He is from TC. really good warrior. Very challenging to defeat or even come close to haha. The closest I came to defeat him was the only time I brought his health down to 30% and that was only because he horribly lagged for like 2 secs xD. Definitely give him a try if Jq faces tc again. Still really missing all the great jq roamers!

Edit He is actually from SOR sry, confused him with another warrior from TC i was also dueling.

SoR huh, hopefully full T1 players will go again tomorrow.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Puandro.3245:

If JQ is back vs BG hit me up :P, although im not full bunker i am pretty tanky.

:O you play ranger too? you’re awesome and make jq come back to tier 1 tomorrow xD.

I play all classes in my signature.

Epic.3950:

so even with the rush fix (I use that term lightly) do you still suggest using the 1 auto attack over the rush when its up to get the tiny delay in?

Mmmh.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Puandro.3245:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Can anyone from BG or TC (that is not a necro) defeat Twin Scroll 1v1 against his warrior? I wreck my brain out trying to find an opening to get him down but it was completely impossible when his mace/shields cd is low while regenerating health per seconds, his main stun cd also low and duration is insanely high once caught while your stunbreakers are on cd. Being a bunker yet still have great amount power and critical dmg made him invincible for me. I have defeated many other warriors with this mace/shield, gs stun lock build with my s/d burst non-glass cannon ele but he was an exception during the many duels we fought.

The signet buffs makes warriors no longer weak to consistent damage like it was before when healing surge was the only thing viable. Basically if you cant burst a warrior you wont kill him (assuming he is tanky enough). Its kind if like your ele, consistent damage wont kill you but burst will.

I know this Paundro but there was not enough opening to burst him down and you know I can burst very bunker players (with 3000+ of armor). There were many ways for him to avoid my burst and still keep constant pressure on me. He was very bunker yet bursty as well. I completely doubt even a glass cannon thief would be able to output enough dmg to burst him down because Twin Scroll will avoid most of the damage with block, endure pain or stun to interrupt even if the thief ambushes him in mid fight plus a glass thief will get nuked fast and easy.

What server is this guy on? I still havent lost to a mace/gs warrior yet but i know you are good and know their counters before the signet buff patch so its interesting you are having issues.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Can anyone from BG or TC (that is not a necro) defeat Twin Scroll 1v1 against his warrior? I wreck my brain out trying to find an opening to get him down but it was completely impossible when his mace/shields cd is low while regenerating health per seconds, his main stun cd also low and duration is insanely high once caught while your stunbreakers are on cd. Being a bunker yet still have great amount power and critical dmg made him invincible for me. I have defeated many other warriors with this mace/shield, gs stun lock build with my s/d burst non-glass cannon ele but he was an exception during the many duels we fought.

The signet buffs makes warriors no longer weak to consistent damage like it was before when healing surge was the only thing viable. Basically if you cant burst a warrior you wont kill him (assuming he is tanky enough). Its kind if like your ele, consistent damage wont kill you but burst will.

Andele.1306:

Puandro.3245:

A) You can’t use all of those at once.
B) I didn’t use any invuls/blocks/evade whirl/charges ect.
C) Stop blaming your failure on the profession and think outside the box.

To reply in no real order:
Hey i finished pretty much everything in the gauntlet except the no meat, 8 crystals and 5 gambit achivements on my necro via build changes, so no i didnt fail; yes you can use all of them and well then you fail at your own profession if you didnt use any of the tools it has, gratz on being a newbie.

*final little note for those that say my comments contradict eachother, no im just saying it takes less real skill to beat something with one set of tolls than with the other; also im not saying that thats fair, but its ok since you cannot perfect the toolset needed for content without making it trivial for someone else

Tools are mean’t to be used if you need them, i didn’t need them so i carried more dps to speed it up.

Andele.1306:

Puandro.3245:

Did it on a glass warrior with no endurance food or endurance signet on my 5th attempt, had to respec to new traits though. You guys kitten too much.

The profession with 2 invuls against minion explosions, 3 second block, leap, evade whirl and 2 charges clap clap clap true achivement.

A) You can’t use all of those at once.
B) I didn’t use any invuls/blocks/evade whirl/charges ect.
C) Stop blaming your failure on the profession and think outside the box.

If JQ is back vs BG hit me up :P, although im not full bunker i am pretty tanky.

Did it on a glass warrior with no endurance food or endurance signet on my 5th attempt, had to respec to new traits though. You guys kitten too much.

kitten is still going…..

Pretty bullkitten if it was intended.

Was a bug, bug is fixed.

Fenrir.5493:

Warriors are the worst pvp class at the moment, if you are new to this game you will need to learn a lot of things before you really know why is this, for now you should trust people, warrior for pvp right now is not a good option, you can be carried by another profession, and learn game mechanics.

But if you like so much the warriors then play it, but expect the worse when you enter pvp, first the class, and second your inexperience at playing and building.

Also one thing is pvp and another is WvW, in pvp everyone gets fair equips and lvl, no one has better anything than anyone, its like when you play a private server of WoW for example.

WvW is another area where gear matters and you should get better gear and foods etc to gain advantages, so this is not a balanced fair game, in this area warriors are a bit better because of the acces to a lot more equips, so they can stack more stats and compensate with that.

Listen to this guy.

Wow this kitten is still going?

galandor.1059:

JoakimFA.4713:

vove.2768:

For tpvp/spvp? Any condition build is bad.

This guy is pretty funny

He is considering conditions is the meta atm, which is why I was so curious about the builds potential.

My Apothecary s/s lb warrior is pretty lols in WvW, ask miiro/perrand/morte.

What shield is that.

Berengar.6951:

killahmayne.9518:

Daecollo.9578:

Skull Crack isn’t good enough….
Throw your mace at your foe, Stunning your foe with a skull crack. Effect increases with adrenaline level.
Damage: 999
Level 1 stun: 3 s
Level 2 stun: 6 s
Level 3 stun: 9 s
Range: 1500

you forgot the it has an AoE radius of 600 and is unblockable.

and is unaffected by blind

Pierces by default, grants 1 bar of adrenaline per target hit, adrenaline gain happens after adrenaline is used.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I never said anything about intensity. I said duration.

Yup i did understand what you said correctly. Once again Auras don’t stack intensity/duration whatever you want to call it. They are not like boons. Each fire Aura from a leap finisher will last 5 seconds and NOT stack with each other.

Go ahead and try it. You’re obviously stuck in your opinion and would rather argue when I could go ahead and record video proof of a mouseover of fire aura after two consecutive leap finishers.

You say that they don’t function as buffs, however the wiki states that Auras act as irremovable buffs, stacking duration and not intensity as other buffs do. Please, go onto some other thread if you’re so enclosed in your own opinion to neglect testing or research.

LOL This is kittening gold!

Please provide a video of you being able to stack fire auras. How is it my opinion when its a kittening fact.

You, sir, are the epitome of the greatsword warrior kittenbag intellect. Come back when you aren’t insulting me based off of one thing I said when the thread’s purpose was to critique my build (critique, not criticize mind you, kitten).

You were the firet one to insult me. You were the first to post false informatikn. All i did was post how it worked and you flipped and threw some ad hominen attacks instead of continuing the discussion civilized.

Then be the better man and walk away, knowing I’m wrong rather than insulting me by throwing the first kitten in my thread. Now, if you’d like to actually discuss my build in a civilized manner, I’d be more than happy.

I would rather correct you then let you spread false information. Also i already threw my 2 cents at the very start of the thread.

Again, that post is entirely your opinions. If much rather have a long fear, condition removal and might stacking/vulnerability (depending on preference) than banners which force me into a stationary position to be kited even more.

Banners work much better in actual use then on paper. Ive been running then solo and small groups and its easy to keep perma regen in myself and the group. Also 3 shouts provide less HPS than regen. Lastly you are stuck with 3 shouts for healing instead of 1 banner and 2 utility that can be changed. Stability is pretty much a must to be able to 1vX and stomp on the first down.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I never said anything about intensity. I said duration.

Yup i did understand what you said correctly. Once again Auras don’t stack intensity/duration whatever you want to call it. They are not like boons. Each fire Aura from a leap finisher will last 5 seconds and NOT stack with each other.

Go ahead and try it. You’re obviously stuck in your opinion and would rather argue when I could go ahead and record video proof of a mouseover of fire aura after two consecutive leap finishers.

You say that they don’t function as buffs, however the wiki states that Auras act as irremovable buffs, stacking duration and not intensity as other buffs do. Please, go onto some other thread if you’re so enclosed in your own opinion to neglect testing or research.

LOL This is kittening gold!

Please provide a video of you being able to stack fire auras. How is it my opinion when its a kittening fact.

You, sir, are the epitome of the greatsword warrior kittenbag intellect. Come back when you aren’t insulting me based off of one thing I said when the thread’s purpose was to critique my build (critique, not criticize mind you, kitten).

You were the firet one to insult me. You were the first to post false informatikn. All i did was post how it worked and you flipped and threw some ad hominen attacks instead of continuing the discussion civilized.

Then be the better man and walk away, knowing I’m wrong rather than insulting me by throwing the first kitten in my thread. Now, if you’d like to actually discuss my build in a civilized manner, I’d be more than happy.

I would rather correct you then let you spread false information. Also i already threw my 2 cents at the very start of the thread.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I never said anything about intensity. I said duration.

Yup i did understand what you said correctly. Once again Auras don’t stack intensity/duration whatever you want to call it. They are not like boons. Each fire Aura from a leap finisher will last 5 seconds and NOT stack with each other.

Go ahead and try it. You’re obviously stuck in your opinion and would rather argue when I could go ahead and record video proof of a mouseover of fire aura after two consecutive leap finishers.

You say that they don’t function as buffs, however the wiki states that Auras act as irremovable buffs, stacking duration and not intensity as other buffs do. Please, go onto some other thread if you’re so enclosed in your own opinion to neglect testing or research.

LOL This is kittening gold!

Please provide a video of you being able to stack fire auras. How is it my opinion when its a kittening fact.

You, sir, are the epitome of the greatsword warrior kittenbag intellect. Come back when you aren’t insulting me based off of one thing I said when the thread’s purpose was to critique my build (critique, not criticize mind you, kitten).

You were the firet one to insult me. You were the first to post false informatikn. All i did was post how it worked and you flipped and threw some ad hominen attacks instead of continuing the discussion civilized.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I never said anything about intensity. I said duration.

Yup i did understand what you said correctly. Once again Auras don’t stack intensity/duration whatever you want to call it. They are not like boons. Each fire Aura from a leap finisher will last 5 seconds and NOT stack with each other.

Go ahead and try it. You’re obviously stuck in your opinion and would rather argue when I could go ahead and record video proof of a mouseover of fire aura after two consecutive leap finishers.

You say that they don’t function as buffs, however the wiki states that Auras act as irremovable buffs, stacking duration and not intensity as other buffs do. Please, go onto some other thread if you’re so enclosed in your own opinion to neglect testing or research.

LOL This is kittening gold!

Please provide a video of you being able to stack fire auras. How is it my opinion when its a kittening fact.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

If you don’t want to take my warning seriously, that’s your problem.

That’s why necromancers managed to avoid it for the most part. Instead of screaming “but we are fine”, they had good discussions about the issues at hand.

Instead of even listening to the people here that play warriors that want to have a good discussion it’s become a series of personal attacks. Just look at the above. It went from me saying that healing signet got over buffed, and that something was off with the build to me apparently saying “warriors are OP”.

In the end I’m just going to drop it. If warriors get nerfed, that’s fine I will still play mine. If they don’t, that’s fine too. Every good player here knows you don’t always run with the same weapon for everything. You pick the right tool for what you need to do. I feel the same way about characters. It’s probably why all of mine look alike.

Ill agree condition reduction on a warrior is fine when people aren’t able to build for 100% condition duration to all conditions.

Passive regen on warriors is higher than rangers but they can’t activate their active. I already did the math and with the same heal power Rangers using Troll Unguent have higher burst healing but when its down its lower, overall at the end rangers edge out a bit more than warrior. Basically warriors with the signet are weak to burst and ranger have a 15 sec window where they can be weak to burst.

Every class can build for -65% reduction to all conditions.
Ele/Engi/War can build for 98% reduction to Chill/Imob/Cripple. Except Warrior pretty much needs it to be viable unlike the other 2.

I don’t feel the stun is too much, you NEED GS to do damage in the stun, Rangers are a whole different beast on their stun mechanic gaining a damage increase when they interrupt.

You could claim im biased but warrior isn’t the only class i roam in WvW in.

Lastly this build is good in small fights (5 or less) and i don’t ever see Anetnet nerfing for that very reason. Also Anet has yet to nerf something in WvW to a worse state than in sPvP and with Warriors only getting more buffs from here on i don’t see them doing it.

Can I just say that I think most of you are saying something similar. Instead of looking at something and going “well we need to be that strong”, why not say “why do we need to be that strong?”.

Right now I think the problem in GW2 is that warriors in melee suffer because crowd control has slowly grown in strength over time. This heavily punishes melee classes, and in order to compensate you have to give them additional power + ways to lessen that weakness.

It then becomes an arms race though. More CC to control the melee, means they need more compensation or else people just switch to all ranged (pretty much what has happened). It’s just a series of issues, because CC isn’t properly balanced.

Take the people complaining about the stun. What if instead of complaining about the warrior stun they just said that CC in general is too strong. You would probably agree.

Of course this would all be if we could actually have a real discussion instead of the current personal attacks.

Im all for removing Condition duration/reduction food in WvW. It’s too strong. Also condition duration weapons. After the patch that boosted conditions for many classes you either run condition reduction to avoid getting kitten d and then you have to run condition duration to be able to CC those running condition reduction. Its a horrible cycle.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I never said anything about intensity. I said duration.

Yup i did understand what you said correctly. Once again Auras don’t stack intensity/duration whatever you want to call it. They are not like boons. Each fire Aura from a leap finisher will last 5 seconds and NOT stack with each other.

They can stack but the 10 sec ICD still exists so its useless (except for the Frost one).
I don’t expect anything other than bug fixes august 6 due to the Pax tournament. The first patch the tournament, god save us all.

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.

This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.

Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.

I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.

I personally don’t think the build is OP in WvW but that doesn’t mean it won’t get nerfed. The problem is people said rangers were OP in sPvP and almost every team carried one so they got nerfed. Same with D/D ele. Warriors are still considered bad in sPvP so i would expect more buffs to warrior then nerfs TBH.

Give it time.

I actually added some more onto the post up above, but it didn’t go through, so i’ll just add it here

They honestly took the warrior changes to far, just like they did with the Necro Changes.

A. Conditions on Warriors, Before it was the biggest weakness of the Warrior class, and they honestly did need help, Factor in all the changes they did though, and they took it to far, Factor in things like the Food present and Warriors are basically immune to conditions… Meaning its no longer a weakness (when it should be one)

B. Healing, Again something they improved far to much, the healing signet needed to be improved, but it should of been on the active heal side, Giving it 400+ HPS without a drop of healing power? That’s just silly.. Throw in Adrenal Heal which also is higher then most passive heals (like the rangers for example) without a drop of healing power and you start to get in the silly sustain levels without any gearing for it. I mean without any Healing Power a Warrior is already got better passive healing then a Ranger with full Healing Gear.

C. Anyone who thinks a 3.5 Second stun on a 7 second cooldown is fine (not even counting the other stuns) is out of their mind….I run the technobabble build, that’s a 5 second daze on a 45 second cooldown, and its incredibly powerful…. Its bloody silly sometimes, So to even pretend that a 7 second cooldown one that last almost as much and is a stun isn’t powerful is just silly…. I don’t care how great you are at dodging, you will eventually get stunned, Its only a matter of time, and if you run anything but full toughness gear, You’re dead..

Ill agree condition reduction on a warrior is fine when people aren’t able to build for 100% condition duration to all conditions.

Passive regen on warriors is higher than rangers but they can’t activate their active. I already did the math and with the same heal power Rangers using Troll Unguent have higher burst healing but when its down its lower, overall at the end rangers edge out a bit more than warrior. Basically warriors with the signet are weak to burst and ranger have a 15 sec window where they can be weak to burst.

Every class can build for -65% reduction to all conditions.
Ele/Engi/War can build for 98% reduction to Chill/Imob/Cripple. Except Warrior pretty much needs it to be viable unlike the other 2.

I don’t feel the stun is too much, you NEED GS to do damage in the stun, Rangers are a whole different beast on their stun mechanic gaining a damage increase when they interrupt.

You could claim im biased but warrior isn’t the only class i roam in WvW in.

Lastly this build is good in small fights (5 or less) and i don’t ever see Anetnet nerfing for that very reason. Also Anet has yet to nerf something in WvW to a worse state than in sPvP and with Warriors only getting more buffs from here on i don’t see them doing it.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I run banners instead of shouts, perma regen > Shouts.

Xsorus.2507:

Going to chime in on this as well real quick, If your first answer to someone saying your build is overpowered is to point to another class that is considered vastly overpowered and say “Well they’re overpowered” then guess what, You’re overpowered.

This isn’t about Warriors no longer being free kills as you say, But maybe just maybe, Anet overbuffed certain aspects of your class recently in regards to how powerful it is, Just like the Necro..Which if you think about it, Is quite hilarious since they said themselves it wouldn’t take much to overpower both of those classes….Yet they still managed to do it.

Coming from someone primarily who plays a Ranger..Trust me when I say you mine as well just admit to being OPed and take the lumps, because the nerfs you’ll have coming to you will end up completely decimating your builds.

I’ve had my builds eat it constantly for the past few months…and i’m pretty much expecting to eat it some more next patch.

I personally don’t think the build is OP in WvW but that doesn’t mean it won’t get nerfed. The problem is people said rangers were OP in sPvP and almost every team carried one so they got nerfed. Same with D/D ele. Warriors are still considered bad in sPvP so i would expect more buffs to warrior then nerfs TBH.

Different server, still free solo kills.

I thought lower tiered servers had better soloers.

Can go apothecary condition build

Can go full soldiers and be a cc/rez bot fro your grp.

can go zerk/cavalier mix and be a tanky but still have good dps to kill people.

Shiren.9532:

Puandro.3245:

Spirits
Long Duration Water Field
Entangle

This is 3 of the best things a ranger can bring to a group. If you play a signet ranger you really don’t bring much to a group another class can’t already do better TBH. I don’t think rangers are bad, they just have their moments.

I’m genuinely curious. How are your spirits staying alive in a zerg? What are you doing in the zerg that is somehow keeping your spirits alive when the zergs run through each other spamming AoE? When the commander says stay on me and move as a group, how are your spirits living through the inevitable AoE?

Honestly, the way the current higher tier zerg meta is being played (very tanky builds, tonnes of party boons, balling and running through mobs) the only ranger build I can think of which comes close to the relevance of other classes would be the trapper.

As the OP said, when you play a guardian, mesmer or elementalist and you realise how powerful these classes are in WvW, it’s hard to play a ranger and think your best performance in the zerg is going to be must ordinary compared to what other classes can pull off. Guardians have insane boons including the incredibly important stability, a spammable blast finisher, reflection skills, exclusive access to wards as well as an easy access swiftness skill on the staff (less limited than warhorn 5). Mesmers have portal, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game, Veil, one of the most powerful WvW skills in the game and a core part of the zerg meta and Feedback. Elementalists have combo fields galore, including two very important water fields. Their AoE is easier to use and Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Frozen Ground are incredible control skills, all on the same weapon. They are more reliable than ranger for might stacking (Flame Trap requires an enemy to trigger it and the torch has a long cooldown).

If your WvW zerg guild is focusing on being completely optimised and trimming all the fat, I don’t think there is a single niche the ranger fills that isn’t done better by another class (the best I can think of is immobilise which bypasses stability but is easily removed). In less zergy tiers or against lower skilled opponents you can get away with more, but I don’t think the ranger has the tool box suited to zerging, at least not at the highest levels. Rangers tend to be at their best when they focus on solo survival, which is why so many players loved the beast master build. It wasn’t a zerg build, but it was great for roaming. Rangers aren’t bad, I just don’t see what they bring to the table at high tier zerg gameplay that isn’t done better by another class.

Well i said group not zerg, small skirmishes not lag fest which are common in T1. Im on JQ btw.

Legenfleet.4603:

@ Puandro
1) :O phoo! Didn’t know that! I guess I’ll go for bloodlust stacks then.
2) Good Point! I forgot that I don’t have as much healing power anymore, at 800 HP 10%’s only a 80 power boost.
3) Tweaked the build based on ascended trinkets and trait change as per suggestion – http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1k.h1h|c.1k.h4.g.1k.h1j|1k.71h.1k.71h.1k.71d.1k.71d.1k.71d.1k.71d|3s.0.2v.0.2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.3v.0|0.f6.k00.f3.k57|15.7|4i.4w.4o.4r.55|e

End result: 6% more critical damage , 10 more healing power, 50 more CondDmage(lol) , 30 more armor for a loss of 52 power, .24% critical chance. Not bad! It saves me from using my badge treasure hoard- now I can hoard them for my alts lol. On the bad side it’ll deplete my laurel reserve xd Wish I hadn’t gotten the bottom row cleric trinkets now heh

4) I dunno, is it? I’ve only come onto forums thus far to ask for build tweaking advice- The build itself is something me and a few buddies came up with – maybe some of them got it from you? I was running the standard 30/30/30 bunker before getting kitten ed off with my pet lol. I felt rather useless when my pet died. Switched to 15/15/15/30 , but still felt kinda lacking damage wise. Asked my mighty ranger squad for help- And thus that’s how i reached this point. Kudos to you if your build inspired my friends to help form this current version of my build though!

@Chopps stability and growing larger? Hmmm. I dunno man, it’d be great to use if I traited for it, but I don’t

Thanks for all the opinions! Once I gather enough feedback from this discussion- I’m probably gonna make this my permanent set for everything – unless areanet balance team decides to nerf pet damage again- I’ll just go knight’s gear/cavalier trinkets at that point

Past 2 ranger video i use a build which you are trying to make, not saying they copied it from me but at least you can see how it performs.

Ranger Video #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GMrfoo0ZZk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUusZTm3ghTzw5NlotflM2Ew

Ranger Video #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfEWpvAlu68&feature=c4-overview&list=UUusZTm3ghTzw5NlotflM2Ew

Substance E.4852:

Malpractice.7850:

Substance E.4852:

Atherakhia.4086:

Someone has to arm the arrow carts.

Seriously though… go ask on the WvW forums for anyone to list the classes in order from most to least useful. You will always find Rangers as #7 and Thieves as #8. This class is awful. It brings the greatest water field in the game and that’s apparently enough.

Thieves have 3 blast finishers and group stealth that can make portal bombing much much easier. Ranger is easily #8 by a margin.

Most forget rangers have a ton of fields they can lay down, and can maintain HP nearly as well as a guardian if traited right (melee, tank, and ignoring the pet for more survivability)

You have access to
Fire (2 ways)
Water (a great one)
Ice (only 2 other classes can do this, Engis is a elite)
And a lot of poisons.

Also, they have the ability to almost permanently give everyone swiftness, and regenerations. As well as providing Fury/Might about 50% uptime.

Furthermore, with proper pet usage, you can give perma fury or do many other things (utilizing the moa, various pets with aoe buffs)

Smoke/Water/Ethereal when under water

Theyre also excellent at stalling and slowing enemy movements with barrage, and on par for the best scouts in the game (imho)

Their “zerg” ability is either tanking or support. YOull never see the aoe numbers of a ele, but you can put up respectable numbers WHILE crippling. Youre more a support for the zerg, rather than the hammer.

You’ve listed nothing that other classes don’t also do while performing better overall in a zerg fight.

We only have 1 fire field usable for stacking might which can just as easily be done by an ele that I guarantee will be there to do it. Flame trap is a field, yes, but it hardly counts since you need a foe to trigger it and you don’t need more than one field to stack before a push anyway.

While our water field is spectacular, it has never once been enough for anyone to actually respect me being there on a ranger to use it, not when guardians heal better and eles can also put down a comparable field of their own. Maybe it’s just a Blackgate thing but I also rarely see Rangers on SoR or the other mystery server that aren’t solo roamers.

As far as conditions go a marks necro is just flat better at it and that won’t be changing anytime soon since they decided marks needed to be even larger.

The regen from natures is not terrible but suffers from an aoe cap like all skills and also suffers from the fact that regen is based on the targets healing power, not the casters. I could have 1000 healing but it won’t do much for the necro with 0 I put it on.

Pets also suffer from the aoe cap and thus are ineffective for stacking purposes never mind the fact that often I can’t get the pet to actually fire off its buff before the group has started to move because anet seems to think pet skills should take all day to activate.

I don’t think I have ever even seen two zergs meet in the borderlands lake and if they did they would probably just try to get out of the water before the other and kill the one who wasn’t fast enough.

Barrage is okay but doesn’t hold a flame to skills like the guardian wall, spectral wall, or static field when it comes to controlling enemy movement. Most of the time I feel like people only move out of it to avoid stacking too much cripple or because they reflexively think it’s an arrow cart, not because it poses any immanent threat.

Rangers can do a lot of things but we don’t do anything spectacularly and when a zerg gets to 50-60 strong the value of a jack-of-all-trades diminishes to the point of uselessness when the chances that a specialized person is there to do a particular job is almost a sure thing.

Regen is based off the caster not the recipient, don’t spread false information.

Spirits
Long Duration Water Field
Entangle

This is 3 of the best things a ranger can bring to a group. If you play a signet ranger you really don’t bring much to a group another class can’t already do better TBH. I don’t think rangers are bad, they just have their moments.

Legenfleet.4603:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1g.h1h|c.1g.h1h.g.1g.h1j|1g.71h.1k.71h.1g.71d.1k.71d.1g.71d.1k.71d|21l.0.31l.0.21l.0.2v.0.3v.0.3v.0|0.f6.f0.f3.p57|15.7|4i.4w.4o.4r.55|e

This is what I settled on in the end. What’d you guys think?
Bumpity bump :S

1) Only 1 sigil with a cooldown may be used at once per weapon set. This means no energy and battle combo, pick 1.
2) I suggest picking up sword cooldowns in wilderness and dropping 5 points in BM.
3) I suggest using Ascended trinkets for crit damage before you pick armor/weapons for them since they have a higher crit damage to stat ratio.
4) This is very similar to the build i use, is it based off my build?

If they nerf skull crack back to 3 seconds ill run hammer instead. Fact is they havent nerf any build because its OP solo in WvW. All we have seen is inderect nerfs to builds due to sPvP. I would like someone to post 1 ability or trait that is better in sPvP than in WvW, name 1.

Elementalist do actually not thieves :p. Anyways tag so i can watch it tonight.