Guild Wars 2

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth

I’d still like to address the meta build, even though I am not focusing on it.

SA is nice, ill give you that. It could be better, but its good as is.

Vamp is an external factor that people are looking to have nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t say that makes thief viable in itself. If they nerf vamp, not even the burst playstyle thief has will be viable.

There’s a lot of little tweaks that could be made to help us just plain live.

SA cannot be better, the traitline is kittening strong man. If anything acro should be the “bruiser” traitline, since daredevil does the dodges.

Jurica.1742:

Please, fix this trait, put it back to 25% or something like that, it keeps randomly interrupting your casts and it can cost you duels, teamfights ect. I can’t count the number of times that it cancelled my heal and made me go into vamp form or just die when I could have been okay. Like for example now I was dueling this reaper and he was using the reaper shroud 5 on me in a place where I was gonna kite him, I wanted to use my knock to prevent this and not have to use distort ect (that stuff can crit for 8k, its insane, not in a bad way.) basically desp. decoy procced, interrupting my knock at the last second, it kills you more than saves you at the moment.The trigger % is too high.

Die passive defence! I am happy it doesn’t work haha (im sadistic)

JDribbz.6520:

Hey guys,
An issue I and others have experienced recently is occasionally not being able to see aoe skills on the ground such as Timewarp, shadow refuge and other ground-targeted skills. Although this only happens now and again you can imagine this can have a major impact on players reactions and needs a fix, cheers.

Check if you have “effect LOD” checked in options. If so, uncheck it.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth. I once had the idea to made traits in the same spot as mug (can only take one of them) that would buff steal in different ways, for example:

Mug> damage
Stolen heart> Health, protection (or something)
Somethingsomething> Something else

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

I like the shiro being good at chasing down people. Currently, that is a role almost exclusive to thief, which has been in the meta for partly that reason for years now. It would be awesome if teams could use rev shiro instead of thief for the chasedown role. Better at teamfights, worse at decapping than teef.

Arken.3725:

Quadox.7834:

nearlight.3064:

What? This is a post complaining about herald being strong, but almost all of the things you complain about are shiro stance skills. Nearly everything you complain about is about the evades. And hammer is a well balanced weapon with slow hardhitting skills. Things like drop the hammer are quite easy to dodge and the hammer leaves you mostly helpless in melee range.

How is phase traversal any different from judge’s intervention? The mobility is much much weaker compared to a thief that has steal, shadowstep, and infiltrator’s arrow, its not even comparable.

And I’m not sure why you’re complaining about the shield breakbar when soft Ckittenerally blows it up and stuns the revenant with 25 stacks of vuln. Thats so much counterplay its not even worth using.

Hammer is fine

That’s nothing.

Hey, the autos in mine did more!

sinject.4607:

happy to see TAUNT: THE PROFESSION is pretty much clipped of all it’s sleaze. same could be said about ele since it cant go cele (hopefully this’ll tell us just how badly celestial is carrying elementalist) but idk about mesmer. guess we’ll find out.

Fresh air ele is good 1v1er vs zerker specs. That’s about the only thing it’s good for, however.

Serious Thought.5394:

And you are the first. Congratulations. First part, I said I was summarizing. Second bit, it may not be literally free- but its pretty darn close. I one shot a Thief with a Haste Whirling Axe on my Warrior (quickness will forever be Haste to me, sorry, FFAT has ruined it forever). I single shatter bursted several more. One Rapid fire followed by knock back and stealth stomp. I can describe all of them, but thief only excels at mobility. In fact, if it weren’t for Shortbow 5 I’d say Guardian has more mobility. Crazy, right? Better part is, I made good on that by promising a friend I’d get him a 2400 range assassination spec >.> Can’t believe it worked. ahem Where was I?

SA incombination with vamp rune means thief is survivable like crazy, to the point where is doesn’t die if played carefully. However, this goes for many classes at the current moment, so it doesn’t mean anything in particular for thief (looking at you, PU mesmer!)

PS. pls remove vampirism rune

Edit: Is guardian that mobile? Shouldn’t ele be mentioned here instead?

Exciton.8942:

The current meta SA DP thief has great mobility, utility and survivability. If such build can also contest side point 1v1, it becomes pretty OP. It’s almost like another DD ele.

Remember in an 1v1 against thief, if you lose, you will surely die. The thief has enough gap closer to ensure that happen. However, if the thief loses, he can always leave and find a chance somewhere else.

Thief has always been the No.1 WvW roaming class. This says a lot in its potential of 1v1ing. It’s just that in conquest mode. Thief excels in other areas that it’s worth giving up some personal fighting power for.

This is correct

Serious Thought.5394:

I know very few people read or acknowledge my posts (especially considering, the trait incident post aside..was cranky, I am very rarely wrong on anything) but I figure, might as well solve this awkward dispute right ^.^

Currently, Thief is a free kill. No party has denied this.
Thief has massive mobility from literally a SINGLE skill. Everything else is just class emphasizing. No one has denied this.
Many thieves (myself included) have stated that we would give up our shortbow 5 skill (that massive op mobility =P) for some actual balance, buffs, and versatility.

To the important and odd bits. The argument seems to be getting confused. No thief wants to play d/p anymore. Sick, tired, bored, verge of uninstalling. Reason? D/p<->SB DA/SA/TR Vamp/Pack runes. 95% of thieves are playing this build, 99% of thieves are playing D/P weapon set. .6% and .4% is S/D and P/D respectively. Now isn’t that interesting to you non-thief bashers? You are massively traumatized and terrified of thieves being able to contest you. What’s comical, especially to people like me, is that YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT WE THIEVES ARE SAYING. Has to stop.

Thief is the LEAST versatile class in the game, both by weapons and by traits. I hear people arguing Engi and Ele because they look at weapons and seem to forget conjured weapons and kits. Thief? We have a Dagger, Sword, Pistol, and Shortbow. We also used to passively gain damage for dodging or using stealth, now that is gone. We didn’t even get a trade-off like other professions, our SA and Acro were just nerfed. Hard. “But your vigor is better”. Feline Grace for this. Then Feline Grace resold to us for the xpac. If you think we aren’t salty on that, read the other posts. I want a new minor to be quite honest and feline grace returned to old. Alas, no one really plays Thief and no one really nurtures Thief. If you played Daredevil, you will have seen tons of re-used animations and tons of bugs. Far more than I observed on Tempest or Berserker, and those were the new ones as well.

Thief players, like myself, or asking not for buffs. For versatility. For being allowed to play the game differently. I feel like, at times, I am playing Pokemon. With a Magikarp. I can press Splash, Tackle, or Flail. Unfortunately, that’s all I have. I don’t have anything but 6 Magikarp, like some terrible dream. Meanwhile all other professions seem to have an entire team of Electric-Types. If you have no idea what I’m talking about (and I admit, this is kind of vague), look it up. Ask if you have to. Thief needs versatility. Unfortunately, this means changing weapon sets. Pistol pistol needs an almost entire rework, miscellaneous skills need to be made into other things (Death Blossom, seriously. Even condi players don’t use this skill for anything other than it’s multihit), and our trait lines need to just be fixed. Full discussions have been made else where, I am not sure why the argument is here in PvP. No half competent player even remotely argues what Thief’s role is anymore- to decap and provide a +1. But don’t you remember on release, we had some other role. Some other responsibility. Oh! That’s right. We were tasked with fighting other players on our own. Oh goodness me, I almost forgot. Now if we play on equal skill as other players, we get thrashed silly and mindlessly. I see so many mistakes, but the thing is I can no longer punish them. I rolled Thief because it had the capability I seek most in PvP games- to punish other players for bad plays. I was able to do that back in 2013, suddenly 2015 rolls around and if I engage anyone they can just turn and faceroll me dead? Yet, no one finds that odd. Oh well, have fun being in whatever frame of mind this is, hope my post helps you see the light of truth more. Perhaps it won’t, but I did just summarize roughly 140 posts.

Thief is anything but a “free kill”.

There, i denied it.

There should be more thief playstyles though

Amante.8109:

Dahkeus.8243:

Well, you could learn to rotate to +1 fights instead of trying to play PvP like it’s some wild west shootout. =P

I mean, learning how to rotate to give fights the +1 advantage at the right time is what give thieves the advantage. They can +1 fights at the right time more than any other class.

Mesmers have a lot of mobility, but their personal mobility doesn’t match their team mobility (portal). So, they can give a port to win a clutch point very often, but they can’t rotate between points by themselves as much since their Z-axis ports are on cooldowns.

And honestly…people here love to talk up a lot of hypotheticals, but the proof is in the pudding. Ask Abjured what the state of thief is. They seem to be doing pretty well winning WTS with a thief, lol.

Yes, Thief is really effective in that one role (mobile decapper and opportunist +1’er). And yet, as always, the assumption is that if someone is complaining about Thief, they must be bad at that role, and/or want Thief to be overpowered in 1v1 combat.

It’s nice that Thieves have a near-guaranteed spot in high level SPvP teams, it really is, but it’s through one narrowly defined build/playstyle that a lot of people simply don’t find enjoyable. It’s also worth considering that not everyone is a high level Thief playing in premade tournaments. Some of us just want to be able to enjoy our profession in solo queue SPvP, which seems like a fair thing to ask.

Quadox.7834:

I agree, there is no tank/bruiser thief. Doesn’t mean thief is unviable in other roles, which people seem to believe. This is something to look at.

Actually, it kinda does, as that’s the entire point people like me are making. Thief doesn’t have the versatility to be viable in SPvP as anything but one VERY rigidly defined playstyle that a lot of people simply don’t find enjoyable (especially in solo queue).

Condi Thief? Not realistic atm, due both to issues with Thief applying damaging conditions, and the wonky state of condition cleanse in SPvP in general.

Bruiser Thief? Completely non-viable, because Thief lacks the durability that other low max HP professions like Ele and Guardian have (blocks, stability, percentage damage reduction, etc). As Thief, this means you can either run a glass cannon stat package and have a chance of doing something, or run something else and do no damage ON TOP of still getting blown up just as fast.

I just want some other options beyond glass cannon D/P + Shortbow decapper Thief. Just about EVERY other profession (save maybe Ranger) has this versatility… are people still so traumatized by 2013 Thief that they’d deny it to us too?

I agree, i meant “That doesnt medan thief is not viable in any role”. My wording got messed up. As always, i should make it clear that i believe a fighter more sustained thief would be awesome, but it should never have superior mobility and disengage at the same time (see ele). You probably know that.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

If you don’t like that, don’t play meta thief. Play some other builds. If there is no other build, this thread should be about buffing thief alternatives (pistol and whatnot). Not to be confused with buffing the current meta build.

I never said anything about a build.

I’ll say it again.

Thief as a class is lacking sustain. Please fix.

I agree, there is no tank/bruiser thief. Doesn’t mean thief is unviable in other roles, which people seem to believe. This is something to look at.

TheDarkSoul.1938:

Quadox.7834:

As long has thief has resbot powers, AOE stealth for the team, and amazing mobility, they should NOT be able to 1v1 many builds/classes at all. A thief running without SB and such, should (if the game were balanced) be able to 1v1. If this isn’t the case, other things needs buffing than the meta thief build.

Aw look, a Mesmer! I’m hardly surprised you guys are totally against actually having to THINK when you fight against a Thief. You poor, poor guys.
I seem to remember a very, very long period of time in which Mesmer was in a bad state and every single Mesmer and his/her mother was asking for buffs. This included being able to fulfill multiple roles and use a variety of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into Shatter.
Funny how when your profession gets the buff treatment you so rightly deserved and Thief gets what you guys used to get, you suddenly forget your past troubles and start bashing on any suggestion that Thief is UP (which is the COMMON concensus among players. Try asking in map chat in Hotm: “Anyone here know how to counter Thief? They keep killing me” and watch yourself get laughed out of the park. Now lets replace “Thief” with “Mesmer” in that sentence and watch as you start crying.)
Also funny how silly your comment is at all considering that Mesmer currently has access to 2 out of the 3 things you said we have (that being AOE stealth and good mobility. Though, your stealth means you can “resbot” too, to a certain extent. You go gurl.) Oh and guess what? Mesmer is currently amazing at 1v1. Did anyone say to you that you can’t have AoE stealth and a skill that ports your entire team cross-map? Pretty sure they didn’t, so quit being a hypocrite.

You just wrote your entire post and made all those conclusions from my signature.
Never go full-kitten mode. Never.

I am not even going to read the entire post, as i saw “quit being a hypocrite” somewhere in there, which is possibly one of the most ineffective and wrong thing you could possibly come up with. Personally, i currently run an illusions mesmer build with Time Warp, no blind trait, no confounding suggestions, no PU, no Inspiration. I advocate for mesmer nerfs regurarly. Yet you think that one’s class decides one alligence. The assumption that i am biased towards mesmer makes me suspicious of your intentions.

You literally wrote a post with 99% content about mesmer in a thread about the state of thief, simply because i play mesmer. Concerning thief, i want thief to be able to fight, 1v1, 2v2, all that, but NOT while doing the things thief currently does. It would be absolutely insane.

“Thief is UP (which is the COMMON concensus among players”. Source? Currently, pretty much every good player knows thief is not even close to a bad class for team pvp. Again, if you want to play a fighting role, then by all means, buff things that thief currently does not use- other roles.

PS. For the record, thief is currently played by pretty much every single team. Mesmer during the time you mention was played in about 3 teams- by only amazing players at the class.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes, it’s late and the guy im replying to made about 2000 accusations towards me so he’s not worth correcting grammar for.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

runeblade.7514:

I will never understand the thieves that keep asking for the ability to 1v1. PvP is a team game. If PvP is a collection of 1v1, then D/P would never win tournaments.

1v1 is an aspect of team play. A player that always needs a backup class to even down an opponent is a drain on the team. That’s why two-thief teams have a habit of failing.

Thieves have tons of sustain. It is called stealth, evasion, shadowstep. They have enough sustain to get the job done, just like every other meta burst build with a bonus of unparalleled mobility.

Stealth is not sustain as it stands now. It requires desisting from combat and stops players from contesting points, not to mention it can be broken by certain classes rather easily.

Other two are correct.

Its quite easy. Get another player to distract them, and then instagib them. PvP is a team game.

1v1 is a facet of team play.

I shouldn’t have to see a player on a point and have to go get someone to help me contest it.

“A player that always needs a backup class to even down an opponent is a drain on the team”
Incorrect. Mesmer doesn’t 1v1 in tourneys. Thief doesn’t 1v1 in tourneys. Both still amazing. In soloq, still not a burden if you +1 and rotate.

Stealth helps survival and is better than pure sustain for burst classes. See PU mes > insp.

“I shouldn’t have to see a player on a point and have to go get someone to help me contest it.”

If you don’t like that, don’t play meta thief. Play some other builds. If there is no other build, this thread should be about buffing thief alternatives (pistol and whatnot). Not to be confused with buffing the current meta build.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

As long has thief has resbot powers, AOE stealth for the team, and amazing mobility, they should NOT be able to 1v1 many builds/classes at all. A thief running without SB and such, should (if the game were balanced) be able to 1v1. If this isn’t the case, other things needs buffing than the meta thief build.

It isnt the case, since SB is used for running away at the moment (mostly, theres some good dps there on people not moving around.)

Don’t know how one would go about nerfing SB so that not taking it allows thieves to 1v1, but mesmer has two of the three you mentioned -and- currently has oneshot-worthy burst.

I wouldn’t call resbot a strength, either.

1. It’s one of the best classes for ressing, in level with bunkers.
2. Why nerf SB, I don’t want that.
3. A teef running things that aren’t good for mobility (pistol weapons for example) should be able to 1v1 much better than meta thief if the balance was right, since it would have low mobility.

As long has thief has resbot powers, AOE stealth for the team, and amazing mobility, they should NOT be able to 1v1 many builds/classes at all. A thief running without SB and such, should (if the game were balanced) be able to 1v1. If this isn’t the case, other things needs buffing than the meta thief build.

I disliked clone death traits alot, but funnily enough, they were not even close to as much Aids as half the game is now.

nearlight.3064:

What? This is a post complaining about herald being strong, but almost all of the things you complain about are shiro stance skills. Nearly everything you complain about is about the evades. And hammer is a well balanced weapon with slow hardhitting skills. Things like drop the hammer are quite easy to dodge and the hammer leaves you mostly helpless in melee range.

How is phase traversal any different from judge’s intervention? The mobility is much much weaker compared to a thief that has steal, shadowstep, and infiltrator’s arrow, its not even comparable.

And I’m not sure why you’re complaining about the shield breakbar when soft Ckittenerally blows it up and stuns the revenant with 25 stacks of vuln. Thats so much counterplay its not even worth using.

Hammer is fine

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Quadox.7834:

Because you can’t take away your weapon while in downstate, which makes sense. You CAN, however, cancel your own downstate casts by pressing escape.

Well you can’t take your weapon away in rampage, but I can still stow the skills. And I don’t understand why they don’t just give stow weapon the exact same functionality as esc with regards to cancelling things.

Because stow weapon means literally “stow the weapon”. It doesn’t say “cancel cast” or anything of the sort. Stowing in rampage could be considered a bug i guess, an anomaly at least

Because you can’t take away your weapon while in downstate, which makes sense. You CAN, however, cancel your own downstate casts by pressing escape.

Michal.4513:

OR lets just make Master of Fragmenation useful GM worthy of use…

Master of Fragmentation
Mind Wrack: Now figure as Blast Finisher per illusion (also Persona work as one)
Cry of Frustration: apply Cripple and Slow to enemy
Diversion: Aoe interrupt, apply Alcarity(3s) to nearby allies
Distortion: Apply to Nearby allies, reflect Projectales

This little changes (not even dmg wise) could make play of Mesmer interesting. Traited Blast finisher is great, if you want it, you take it, but you NEED sacriface other things. This could open new builds for Mesmer. Cripple and slow will be very usefull, as AoE interrupt and Alcarity to ally. And Distortion will bring cool utility that no1 else can do.

Sounds really fun but HOLY kitten that is op

Xyonon.3987:

They could be a bit tankier indeed, especially iDefender lacks of it’s capability.

Yeah our phantasm/clone utilities are not only the only uncategorized(?) utilities in the game (they are called both “clone” and “phantasm”) they are also competitors for the worst utilities in the game.

Three three three

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Levetty.1279:

Short Answer: Stealth

Long Answer: Stealth is broken in this game

Yup, also, it has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game going for it.

Not really. Most builds seen in PvP are power PU, which doesn’t take illusions. Only condie builds will be taking illusions, and those are far worse and far rarer in PvP.

It still has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game.

Only if you’re planning on running it with PU and camping stealth. Otherwise, it’s pretty bad. The pistol trait providing massive cdr through interrupts is very strong, bug notwithstanding. Additionally, the focus trait providing high uptime on reflects is incredibly strong.

Ye pistol trait could be interesting if they fixed the bug.
Idk anything about PVE, but for pvp, the focus trait is not very good, esp. not in comparision to torch. woop.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Quadox.7834:

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Levetty.1279:

Short Answer: Stealth

Long Answer: Stealth is broken in this game

Yup, also, it has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game going for it.

Not really. Most builds seen in PvP are power PU, which doesn’t take illusions. Only condie builds will be taking illusions, and those are far worse and far rarer in PvP.

It still has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game.

And yet can’t compete with MA, PB, CI, PU, BD, or DE, to name a few

Yep true, im not saying it’s too good, only that it’s the best offhand trait on mesmer :p I have actually said that i am against nerfing illusions traitline at the moment.

Boost base health like they boosted base damage, or make phantasms scale with vitality?

Cele mesmer is currently not “best for any situation”

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Levetty.1279:

Short Answer: Stealth

Long Answer: Stealth is broken in this game

Yup, also, it has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game going for it.

Not really. Most builds seen in PvP are power PU, which doesn’t take illusions. Only condie builds will be taking illusions, and those are far worse and far rarer in PvP.

It still has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game.

Pino.5209:

Necromonger.4970:

Gorisek.2678:

CMON GUYS YOU HAVE MOST BEAUTIFUL COMBAT SYSTEMS I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!

Sure, the visual cluster kitten of particle effects is glorious. Clones, phantasms, minions, pets and aoe spam… it’s… it’s… just beautiful.

Yep have necro, engi, mesmer and ranger in a single confined space or capzone. 3/4 of the screen or area will be filled with turrets, minions, pets, clones. Throw in the particle effects … voila, clusterfk visual wise. That’s only the beginning of it, then you look at the amount of stuffs being thrown around skill wise where there are no distinction between profession on what they can dish out.
Camera isn’t even top priority of concern for GW2 eSport to be successful.

Yep, the capture points are a huge reason. It is very hard to see what’s happeneing compared to say lanes that separates the game very effectively.

Noss.4105:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Finer points aside, any class setup that allows you to FullHP -> Death a class without a telegraph is overpowered, plain and simple.

I don’t know why there are paragraphs being written elsewhere defending the above specifically.

,An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight unfair to the recipient and cannot be planned for. It’s just as passive as turret engie and, ironically, is an embellished version of what many mesmers blamed as being unpleasant and unfair to fight.

wins should be the reward of prediction, skillful play and strategy. A class that can simply erase HP bars without at least making its presence known long enough for its opponent to react needs fixing, period.

“An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight”

Mirror blade is pretty kitten telegraphed. The damage is fine, it was actually just as high before patch (traited bounce), when mesmers were considered one of the weakest classes. The things that can be considered broken are Daze>Stun and Stealth (PU). Also, blind shatter.

I think he meant it’s untelegraphed when the burst comes from stealth.

How would you possibly fix this. I guess is opinion is to nerf the damage? If Anet further nerfed Mesmer mind wrack + mirror blade damage, everything that was unique with mesmer is gone. As soon as you took off that torch/decoy skill, the mesmer would be useless. The only decent fix is to nerf stealth.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Finer points aside, any class setup that allows you to FullHP -> Death a class without a telegraph is overpowered, plain and simple.

I don’t know why there are paragraphs being written elsewhere defending the above specifically.

,An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight unfair to the recipient and cannot be planned for. It’s just as passive as turret engie and, ironically, is an embellished version of what many mesmers blamed as being unpleasant and unfair to fight.

wins should be the reward of prediction, skillful play and strategy. A class that can simply erase HP bars without at least making its presence known long enough for its opponent to react needs fixing, period.

“An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight”

Mirror blade is pretty kitten telegraphed. The damage is fine, it was actually just as high before patch (traited bounce), when mesmers were considered one of the weakest classes. The things that can be considered broken are Daze>Stun and Stealth (PU). Also, blind shatter.

Levetty.1279:

Short Answer: Stealth

Long Answer: Stealth is broken in this game

Yup, also, it has the best mesmer offhand trait in the game going for it.

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

A recurring problem is that, despite fairly strong skills, most off hands never see any high level play because they aren’t defensive enough to play on standard shatter marauder mesmer. Even staff had/has problem surviving vs multiple people compared to the stealth on torch. I think the correct way to handle the problem would be to nerf stealth somehow, rather than buffing other mesmer offhands. Not sure how.

So just to be clear here… You acknowledge that torch is used over all the others because non-torch offhands don’t have the defense to let mesmers survive in matches. Therefor, you conclude that torch should be nerfed.

The abuse of logic here makes my eyes water.

Try chopping the onions under a running tap next time- it’s a good tip to keep the tears away. That said, i never wanted to type a long respone on this thread, but here we go. I didn’t actually suggest that torch should be nerfed. I suggested stealth should be nerfed. Because stealth, in this game right now, is very very strong. This is evident by the fact that the torch weapon is weak in every other regard. In this thread, some people see torch as a weak offhand because of that reason i suppose- it doesn’t have CC or high damage, and it has a useless phantasm that might as well be used for removing blind. Despite this, torch is the most used mesmer offhand in t/sPvP at the moment.

Of course, i know the stealth mechanic won’t be changed, i am only summarising the mesmer Offhand situation and giving an opinion what should be done. I don’t want every other mesmer offhand to straight up be buffed, since at the moment, we are using a condition offhand because it is way too good. Focus, for example, is outlassed att the moment, but is by no means a bad offhand. The condition application of torch should be changed/buffed and the damage and stealth changed/nerfed.

NeroBoron.7285:

To get back to the invisble problem:
First of all mesmer is one of my mains and I have to say pu was to strong early then they fixed boons so it was still strong but not as before. And now they give 100% invis duration? WTF?!
That is crazy. Without veil I can stay 45 sec in perma stealth. Yes infight usually you dont chain up that invisible that long. But for hiding in a wvw keep its ridiclous. And infight it’s way to strong as well. You are way to long invsible and also get so many more boons than before due to this change.

So my suggestion: PU should increase stealth by 33% instead of 100%. You can increase mass invsible to 6 sec by default and fail to 4sec.

So weapon and utility trait are are like before that last patch 4sec. And Veil is like currently 4 sec, while mass invisble gives 8 seconds. 2 less than now, 2 more than before the patch. So you can better stealth your team mates.
Compared to shadow refuge which isn’t an elite spell you make still 2 seconds less invsible. (Yeah okay you can make 5 more people invisble, but it’s an elite spell with even higher cd than SR)

Also I’m not sure with the torch trait, that is one of the main reasons why you could chain up invsible that long. But maybe the pu change will already normalize that. If that’s still not the case it should get nerfed as well.

“You can increase mass invsible to 6 sec by default and fail to 4sec.”’

That’s actually an accurate name for the skill

-Torch is very very strong.
-Temporal curtain is really good, phantasmal warden makes the weapon worse than it should be in pvp.
-Pistol #55 is strong, #4 is alright too. The reason it doesn’t see play in pvp is mainly because torch stealth is pretty op and is a low countplay way to deal with pressure.
-Sword is really lacking. The phantasm is strong, much much better than the torch phantasm. The #4, however, is really bad and would probably need to change to a duration block, a reflect, or something similar, to be viable.
I don’t know about shield yet.

A recurring problem is that, despite fairly strong skills, most off hands never see any high level play because they aren’t defensive enough to play on standard shatter marauder mesmer. Even staff had/has problem surviving vs multiple people compared to the stealth on torch. I think the correct way to handle the problem would be to nerf stealth somehow, rather than buffing other mesmer offhands. Not sure how.

Tao.1234:

Sekai.2987:

Tao.1234:

Metrics show clearly that majority enjoy merged soloq and teamq, because they’re playing it daily.

So, why would we change a system that majority likes?
Especially when a peasant asks for it? :v

what metrics are you talking about ? source pls?

and of course we play daily because we like pvp, but that doesnt mean we dont hate it that we have matches vs premades as soloqer

i see on daily basis that either my team or my enemy team writes things like “gg premade, afk premade waste of time” and i honestly doubt that any soloqer enjoy it when they lose another match with 500-200~ because they face a 3-5 premade party

ps: and in worst case , some players dont even start a match because they see they are playing vs full premade , its not so often like the rage quits mid-match but i seen it serval times

You can ask Justin for metrics~

Imo, since Anet hasn’t changed it for almost a year(few months left) then that means it’s a great success no?

Why would you change something that’s a great success?

It’s unreasonable.

Because it isn’t and it won’t be when leagues come.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Quadox.7834:

Dont fix the pledge. It is actually a good trait. No good mesmer currently takes the pledge or the illusions line. For gods sake dont nerf it.

Um, not to be a pedant, but…if no good mesmer currently takes The Pledge, what makes it a good trait?
Wouldn’t 20% cdr instead of 4.5% cdr per second of stealth be just fine, without the twisted stealth incentives it gives right now?

Agreed. Much better.

Robert Gee.9246:

From a design perspective, Mesmers are more about providing fields and less about activating them. It’s not just blast finishers, Mesmers lack reliable sources of many other finishers too. Necromancers fill a similar role. By contrast you might notice that Warriors have lots of finishers but not many fields.

We don’t always get this balance right (and I think there is a different discussion to be had about when we don’t) but I hope that clarifies what we were going for in the case of Mesmers.

A shame there is a massive benefit to having multiple of the same finisher (blast), whereas there is no or low benefit to having multiple of the same field (etheral yay).

Lyger.5429:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Lyger.5429:

keenlam.4753:

so The Pledge working as intended? /sarcasm

What is this bug?

The Pledge says it reduces torch cooldowns by 1.5% per second of stealth.
It actually reduces torch cooldown by about 4.5% per second of stealth.

Wow I can see how combining this with PU could be a bit OP, wonder if they fix it or the tooltip was a typo.

That’s why Staff with Illusions traitline is about 50 times harder than sword torch.

Hahahha the teef in this thread is unreal.

Iavra.8510:

Clones aren’t waiting in stealth, they continue attacking.

I’m all for nerfing PU, but let’s fix The Pledge first and see how this turns out.

Dont fix the pledge. It is actually a good trait. No good mesmer currently takes the pledge or the illusions line. For gods sake dont nerf it.

For PvP:Team utility and quick burst. Not good at duelling though.

MrKahwk.9524:

Zodi.8932:

I play Gw2 for pvp. Been doing it along time and always will. My main is my Thief and I have had some fantastic times in pvp but these past few weeks I barely even play him anymore.

With all the condi flying around now its just impossible to survive long enough to have a real impact. Sure, we can still burst the lone straggler down but getting anywhere close to an actual fight and we are pretty much dead before we arrive. Just a couple of notable things: A guard burning me for 20% of my health per tick (Killed me when i was fighting him without even landing a hit on me). A Warrior killing me before i even get out of its CC. And also Necros… Just lol!

I have been playing my Ele and my Necro recently and man is it so much easier and fun running around burning everyone down with condis. I actually feel sick now when i log in on my Thief to pvp.

Of course I love my Thief as its my main so I wonder, is it even worth playing now in pvp? Yes you can tell me we are meant to pick of targets on low health and then get out but is it really fun doing that whilst other classes stomp the battlefield with all their condi?

No, thief has not been viable for a long time. Now especially not.

Dont listen to him

I don’t think people realise how bad it would be If thief killed meta specs 1v1. This is exaxtly what the problem is right now with cele ele and the same problem with certain specs in the past such as old pistol whip. If a class with amazing mobility can 1v1, they could literally push into any point and force a 2v1. As soon as the 2 people are there to defend, the thief can just escape and get back to another point (mid probably) faster than the 2 other players. Even with just a few favourable matchups, this problem would arise.

The solution would be to make thieves choose between mobility and fight capability. For example, a thief without shadowstep or shortbow should be able to 1v1 well. Until the day thief meta no longer uses high mobility (shortbow), thief can’t be good at 1v1s.

trytonianYeti.4389:

no joke there are ppl here that actually cry thief op nerf pls. thieves are nowhere near as annoying as rangers.

Ranger is nowhere near as strong as thief. Not even close.

TyPin.9860:

GrandHaven.1052:

Tao.1234:

Pretty much if a guy is doing dodge jump all the time which in combat is impossible to do it every single time.

So let’s say, you 1v1 someone and he’s using dodge jump often(have energy sigil+vigor) then he’s using a macro with 90% chance – there can be someone to do 5 in a row luckily, but doing 8~12 is pretty much impossible and repeating it in every combat.

Hence, anet should fix that dodge jump thing.

I have no idea what dodge jumping is?

A dodge jump is when your character jumps and dodges at the same time. There was some tiny benefit to it… but I forgot what it was.

However, simply observing someone dodge jumping all the time is no evidence at all. Even the mentioned percentages are simple assumptions. I dodge jump really often, cuz it looks cool on an Asura. And if I trained for it, I am sure I could dodge jump almost all the time, because it is not that hard. With how my keyboard works, I simply press dodge and jump at the same time and it results in a dodge jump. Doesn’t work on all keyboards though^^

The advantage is that you get a jump that isnt affected by incombat movement penatly so you can lite to more locations. It doesn’t enlongate the evade frames of the dodge however. The benefit is not tiny, actually can be really important.

By the way, i havn’t specifically checked, but i am fairly certain i can Dodge jump about 98-99% of the time.

Doesn’t make much difference tbh. Also, ele was much worse.

Generosity* /15chars

Didn’t the float actually make the opponent airborne, so you could actually immobilize them and they could effectively not do ANYTHING? Or did the float not count as “in the air”. (BTW anet pls fix immob air bug)