Guild Wars 2

powercreep questionmark

Cynz.9437:

Mesmer burst is more than fine, they were already extremely strong pre HoT. Also, taking current meta into consideration is stupid because every class will change and bunker meta generally will be toned down by a lot due to amulet removal. I honestly wouldn#t be surprised if mesmer ends up stun lock nuking everyone left and right again, like pre HoT.

Also, why would mesmer need sustain? They have invuls/stealth/blocks/blurr/CC spam – plenty of tools to set up another burst.

DPS=/=Burst

Sigil of energy was changed to promote counting dodges etc.

Back when vigor was at 100% effectiveness there was a big problem in that everyone except necro was dodging 24/7.

Bunker mesmer had to be nerfed hard, now to buff shatter back up- hit illusions traitline or something.

This is just one of the things that should have been looked into a long time ago. Camera smoothing an an option to hide damage floaters are two others that are super frustrating for me.

Good changes, like it!

IchigoHatake.5098:

This is same for dh vs thief, dh counters thieves.

This game is about counters, thieves always countered mes from the very beginning of the game.

Maybe you didn’t play before June 23rd, but what you need to realize is that there is a difference between a dpsguard countering a thief and a theif countering a mesmer. Namely, the daredevil can very easily run from the dragonhunter, and if the dragonhunter chooses to chase the thief, the dragonhunter’s team will fall behind due to him being slower. Pre 23rd june mesmer was in such a position that is got opened on basically anywhere by thief with no chance to run away- except for using portal. Therfore, the thief forced portal or a dead mesmer very easily. So whilst a dpsguard might counter a daredevil in a 1v1 scenario, it works differently in practice.

spartan.9421:

Mesmer is still good, only a bad player who doesn’t understand them would think they are gonna be terrible once that patch hits. And what Lythoc says is spot on.

Pepsi.8907:

Quadox.7834:

alicatrawz.9567:

i highly doubt it.

I main a thief, but alt on a mesmer.

the thing i find most comforting is that the amount of bad thieves that will come out of this is going to be too darn high and will be a nice, easy… obvious kill.

in theory, we should have nothing to worry about. at all.

Good thieves however…

Even a Thief will have to worry about other thieves, mesmers can still deal mega damage and like i said on another post.

the mes+thief pain train is gonna be a thing again.

And that makes me happy.

A thief that loses to a shatter mesmer is terrible. Period. Sorry.

Thief’s defense is just capable of neutralizing half of our damage output simply because we either require a target or it makes our clones stand as still as frozen statue, while his stealth outlast ours.
I’m not saying we will be necessarily fodder, but claiming that thief dying to shatter is terrible while they are our natural counter… well I can’t agree.

pepsi… you do realize that a thief’s stealth is SUPPOSED TO OUTLAST A MESMERS STEALTH!! stealthing is a big part of thief you aren’t supposed to outstealth them! All this QQing coming for mesmers complaining about thief are people who obviously don’t understand mesmer and/or thief

Top mesmers are apparently “bad players who don’t understand them [Mesmers]”

alicatrawz.9567:

i highly doubt it.

I main a thief, but alt on a mesmer.

the thing i find most comforting is that the amount of bad thieves that will come out of this is going to be too darn high and will be a nice, easy… obvious kill.

in theory, we should have nothing to worry about. at all.

Good thieves however…

Even a Thief will have to worry about other thieves, mesmers can still deal mega damage and like i said on another post.

the mes+thief pain train is gonna be a thing again.

And that makes me happy.

A thief that loses to a shatter mesmer is terrible. Period. Sorry.

What i will do now do, is go back and play Domi/duel/illusions shatter. For fun.

Oops, nevermind, i haven’t played the game a single time during the last 2 months and won’t now either.

Curunen.8729:

Nice to see such feedback from other class players.

Extra Mirror Blade bounce would be a good start to have back.

Yeah, it took me about 0,5 seconds after the mirror blade nerf to predict how shatter mesmer would turn out to be. I told people all the time that it isn’t as good as they think- obviously people continued to QQ and not understanding the game. I haven’t played now for 2+ months, had a good run, but it eventually just got on my nerves too much. I duelled people in arenas without elite (because of moa), without 3rd utility (because of portal) and without continuum shift. Every. Single. Time. I won they still complained about mesmer being overpowered. This was shortly after HoT.

Flash forward 3 months. And well, yeah.

Ananeos.4587:

Novamatrix.2569:

You people obviously dont know how to play your class correctly

Do you know who you are talking to? THE Fay, literally the first person to introduce the Chronobunker meta to Guild Wars. He obviously knows how to play his class correctly.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

lol

lol

lol

foste.3098:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This puts Anet into a sticky wicket. Thief players want to be stronger, but thieves have to be the weakest.
.

The same can be said for mesmers, they are stronger in a small fight/solo since their illusions do not get cleaved down. But do mesmers have a issue in team fights? Yes, unless they run a bunker spec, but are they otherwise totally useless? Not by a long shot, on any build. Thief is just a flawed class by design, nerf its mobility and buff something else (not damage).

Mesmer meta has been Shatter throughout the game, except for the very most recent month, Shatter does not excel in 1v1, despite how many times people on forums try to tell you, despite clones gettings cleaved in teamfights. It never has, never will. The new bunker mesmer can 1v1 on the other hand. It will usually not kill, but it can hold.

mass invis > stealth gyro

kappa

Misha/Oracle ran domi duelling chrono.

But yes, we have moved out of duelling meta. I wouldn’t say “finally”, considering the new bunker mesmer is super boring compared to the old meta.

Chromomancer is the worst 1v1er in the meta.

You could even keep it as one “ranked” button if you want, just force 5 parties ALWAYS go against 5, and solos+duos go against eachother.

If you try to queue with 3 or 4 players in party, send popup saying “You cannot queue in ranked with three or four players”.

alain.1659:

Warrior is the hardest class in the game. You have to use environment, your opponent, and weapon sheath perfectly well to function apart from your skills. And you have few skills so your timing must be good. When I am playing my engi I do not suffer from a single problem due to vast number of skills/solutions I have. I have a solution for everything, I can do everything.
But with warrior… I still can not perform well. How good ones do amazes me.

Worst class often turns into the hardest class unconsciously

Of Machines.6872:

Put a break bar on them so teams have to CC them to get the kill, like the new raid boss mechanic :P

would make interesting and engaging gameplay

Nice idea.

11 months and ticking, Mr. Personal Failure.

(sorry)

I imagine a kind of glowing ring around the phantasm Dot.

You want easier gameplay and you want to play a trickster class.

I would say play bunker chrono as a start.
You will win.

laquito.5269:

Quadox.7834:

I predict that mesmer will be unviable
I predict that thief will get into the meta
I predict that warrior will get into the meta.

Oh look, all of these will come true.

Hard

Whats your point….? If you got nothing to contribute please stay away from this topic and rather keep practicing Mesmer on the Duel Server, it’s not like you know anything about Thief balance anyway.

That was semi-serious, but nevermind that. You are the one that brought up that “The community forshadowed our own destiny without ANET doing anything about it”. I am very sorry, but ArenaNet can’t balance the game through divination. The same goes for “being vocal”. Just “being vocal” doesn’t help as Arenanet, as a professional company, can’t listen to random people crying. A good way to get the point across is for example a list of bullet points or simply a nicely formatted text of as-objective-as-possible information. This cuts down on the time it takes to read > devs can read it faster > easier to get the point of the post.

And as i have stated repeatedly before, i am not against thief buffs by any means. What i am against is false information spread such as saying thief has been weak for several months/even longer when thief was amazing in 5v5 before HoT and june patch, as evidenced by pretty much every single competitive team during all of 2015 and even longer than that. The reason i want people to stop shouting things like “X is anets golden child” or “Anet hates thief” is because i know that it will never ever help arenanet balance the game- which is, in the end, what we all want.

“Limit animation effects” and “Limit particle effects” sliders.

Hot Boy.7138:

Quadox.7834:

Hot Boy.7138:

xiao.2614:

Hot Boy.7138:

I really think they need to remove the part about mirror blade that is unblockable.

1. its so easy to dodge at long range; at short range is a little bit harded but mb has kitteng animation so if u are good its not problem for u and if u are bad… l2p
2. so, 0 ublockable skills for mesmer class is okay yea?

Yeah, that’s okay with me. Mesmer shouldn’t have any unblockable skills. Especially one on such a short cd that hits so hard. Unblockable skills should go to classes that have a hard time landing attacks. But mesmer is attacking from all directions at all times with clones, phantasms, shatters, and wells. Mirror Blade should be blockable.

Okay, warrior.

Oh wait, that’s it.

I’m a mesmer and has been since launch. If you don’t agree, then fine. I stand by what I say.

It’s too strong as it is. No one wants to see their precious class nerfed, so of course no one on this thread will agree.

If i were going to change Mirror Blade, I would make it blockable, OR make it so it’s unable to bounce at all.

Yes mesmer is too strong i don’t disagree with you (chrono)

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

Just a notification for you guys… but the 3 classes we have the most problems with are developped by the same dev lead. Coïncidence? i think not.

NB : I meant thieves – eles – guardian
NB2: i just said “problems” so it means “too good” and “too week” too.

Why do we have the most problems with ele and guard?

laquito.5269:

yolo swaggins.2570:

snippet

I mostly agree with what you said in this thread, but it’s pointless to argue with people that obviously have never played Thief in PvP and therefore resort themselves to arguments like “thief has always been meta or it’s ability to decap/+1ing” without realizing the actual problem.

The main difference between warrior’s and thief’s current state in PvP though is that warriors have fallen short rather unexpectedly, whilst thieves had been vocal about the increasing problems with thief balance and role in PvP since mid 2014. There were tons of posts that highlighted the problems of thief balance and the strong focus on mere +1ing and decapping. These topics were constantly flooded by whine and flame of other classes, because thief apparantly seemed “fine” or even “OP” to them.

The concerns got bigger with the June Patch this year and an increasing power creep as thieves were more and more pushed into defensive specs (D/P SA), which may have been strong, but even this spec couldn’t mask the increasing struggles of thieves. The class has been a +1 and decap bot pretty much since the introduction of Panic Strike D/P build by shad in early 2014, thats why they asked for buffs to survivability and/or 1v1 capability, as HoT already indicated a not so bright future for stealth, which had been the only defense mechanic for thieves at this point.

Fast forward to now, the thief class has finally reached the point that many of us had warned people of. The continuous forum whine denied necessary buffs to thief’s defensive mechanics and 1v1 capability and pretty much renders them useless for the current meta as they just straight out die to AOE and power creep.

As predicted thief has fallen out of the meta, which is quite ironical considering that we’ve foreshadowed our own destiny without ANet doing anything about it. Moreso even players that used to complain about thieves back then started to acknowledge the pityful state that thief is currently in. Personally I think thief is fine and probably the most balanced profession at the moment, it’s just not viable under these circumstances. ANet can either nerf 6 out of 8 professions, which would probably be better for the sake of this game or they just buff warrior and thief. The problem though is that thief only fits into 1 specific role, whereas warrior has always been a more versatile class.

Almost 2 years of thief history in a nutshell

I predict that mesmer will be unviable
I predict that thief will get into the meta
I predict that warrior will get into the meta.

Oh look, all of these will come true.

Hard

yolo swaggins.2570:

Quadox.7834:

How can this be true, when thief has been 95% mandatory Pre HoT, Pre June patch, all throughout 2015 and longer than that as well?

And here is where I lose my patience.

The meta is: have a thief for decap/backcapping and being a pet.

- Being someone’s pet, as in the inability to effectively 1v1 or more, is not a role.
- Doing nothing but backcapping and decapping is absolutely not a valid measure of the profession’s overall effectiveness. It is only a measure of effectiveness on mobility.

Stop using that excuse. It means nothing.

That is why i did indeed state that, If your concern is something else than the meta builds, please CLARIFY in your post. Buffs to alternative playstyles is important to separate from the meta playstyle. The game is ’balanced" around a 5v5 conquest meta. Decaps, stealth for resses and bursts, and chasing down people are all roles the thief has been used for.

Ability to effectively 1v1 is not even close to a prerequisite for being a good class to bring to conquest pvp. Chronomancer is the worst 1v1 meta class on shatter, but can still be very useful. They (thief and mesmer) have been used for +1s, not even fights (which bruisers often excel at.

Of course “measure of effectiveness on mobility” accounts to the overall effectiveness of the class. In fact, it is sa huge part of pvp and one that thief is meant to excel at. There is no excuse. What would i make an excuse for? I support thief buffs/nerfs to other classes. What i don’t support is people spewing lies that don’t contribute in any meaningful way.

Some of you need to pause, take a few steps back from the monitor, and wait for a few hours. Then come back and read through this thread in an objective manner.

- State of thief is not the best, but it is not worse than state of warrior.

- Anet doesn’t “hate thief”. Neither has warrior been their " golden child". But fine, keep saying it If it makes you feel better.

-Some people are saying that whilst warrior has been weak just for a few weeks, thief has been weak/below average for months/years/a long time. How can this be true, when thief has been 95% mandatory Pre HoT, Pre June patch, all throughout 2015 and longer than that as well?

You can keep shouting Opinions and even lies, just know that Anet will get no help balancing thief, warrior or any other profession from this thread.

Edit:
If you are talking about things other than meta builds, such as build diversity (which i don’t think you are), then clarify in your posts please, thanks.

People.
People.
People.
Anet doesn’t want any class be be bad. If they could choose through a simple button press, they would make the classes balanced and the people happy. Stop pretending like “Anet rally hates thief”, and anything of that sort. It reeeeaally does not help.

Hot Boy.7138:

xiao.2614:

Hot Boy.7138:

I really think they need to remove the part about mirror blade that is unblockable.

1. its so easy to dodge at long range; at short range is a little bit harded but mb has kitteng animation so if u are good its not problem for u and if u are bad… l2p
2. so, 0 ublockable skills for mesmer class is okay yea?

Yeah, that’s okay with me. Mesmer shouldn’t have any unblockable skills. Especially one on such a short cd that hits so hard. Unblockable skills should go to classes that have a hard time landing attacks. But mesmer is attacking from all directions at all times with clones, phantasms, shatters, and wells. Mirror Blade should be blockable.

Okay, warrior.

Oh wait, that’s it.

Dondagora.9645:

Quadox.7834:

I like OPs suggestion more, not sure If it is the one i would like most, however. Mistrust does need some change in my opinion.

What change would you prefer? Something simpler, or different mechanic, or…?

Hard to say, but i think your solution would be too complicated in my opinion, partly because it also adds screen clutter!

Perahaps something like this:

“When you daze a foe, their next channeled attack will be interrupted”

It could place a debuff similar to Pulmonary Impact, so there is counterplay (Autoattacking, not healing, for example).

It would also serve as an indirect sword buff, which is always good!

What do you people think about making knockback skills and pulls hit downed foes like launches do? Since many classes don’t have a launch.

Dagins.5163:

Downed state is not the reason you can’t win 2v1. You can pick some stability or skills like elixir s, and stomp without problems.

Problem is, skill floor in GW2 is very low, while skill ceiling is above human level. It’s just very hard to be very good at this game. Too hard. It takes cyborg skills to avoid all important attacks without cast bars, and to time all yours between plentiful evades/invulns/blinds/blocks – where 95% of these things are instant. Did I mention asura models?

Very good explanation. Personally i think you are correct but i also think that downstate plays an important role in this as well. Stomping doesn’t work vs many classes post-HoT, thanks to quick resses.

The chronomancer that was attacking you used continuum shift, but something went wrong and the mesmer phased out of time back to guild wars 1.

Confirmed.

I like OPs suggestion more, not sure If it is the one i would like most, however. Mistrust does need some change in my opinion.

Good question, would like to know as well.

It was a dumb nerf yes, there are things that i want much more than this though, but this one is easy to implement.

Tanky builds don’t have to be a problem at all. In duelling, dont allow amulets with 2 or more sustain stats. That is to say, for example vitality and toughness or healer power and concentration

I always wanted leaderboards for 1v1ss as well as a duel arena but sadly probably not going to happen.

NOOOO SHHH don’t spoil it please

Phaeton.9582:

Clearly this is a non issue, that’s cool. Everyone can be a pro with engi nades now – and that auto targeted DH trap is sure to brighten your day!

Altogether great stuff guys. Could I suggest we have an auto dodge mechanic too – just the option would be good as new players will otherwise need to learn this. Tks.

It is an issue, the problem is just that people don’t care about important gameplay elements. Displaying ICDs on the UI and request for a toggle for Damage Floaters both got ignored, too.

What about things like panic strike?

Bryzy.2719:

You have to hand it to Anet though OP, they’re consistent:

Give the most solid profession the best (possibly) elite spec,
Give the crappiest profession the worst elite spec – Ranger/Druid.

lolwhut

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Quadox.7834:

Most people already used it

Reference, please.

You got me, i don’t know this for sure, but read the later part of my sentence.

This is probably my biggest pet peeve with the mesmer class. Not Phantasmal mage specifically, but the fact that mesmer skills as a whole are incredibly unreliable. The class is build around a few skills, mainly shatters. Which gets boring after a while.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

All very nice buffs. Seize the moment is actually viable now :o

Most people already used it, including the tree “top mesmers” on eu afaik.

LOOLLLLL Seize the moment hhahah this is gonna be great my god.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

While I think DH, revenant, and scrapper are all stronger then us (They are all way overtuned imo), I think we are still very good. Chrono has a lot more depth to it so I dont think we have found the right build yet unlike the other classes that are a lot more simpler. Currently, I have been using a dom/illu/chrono build for the past 2 days that has been preforming very well in unranked. I honestly think with ireverb and chronophantsma the requirement of dueling can finally be over.

Def. not impossible. Especially now that clones die quicker than ever to scrapper aoe, reaper aoe, tempest aoe, dragonhunter aoe. We’ll see.

Mak.2657:

I saw very good dh beating every one at angz (1×1 server) till another good scrapper came and beat him. But it is not about 1×1. It’s more about impact on a team, reward/effort ratio, etc. Probably many (every?) of new elites have balance issues. Just makes me sarcastic when I see another “go range” or “l2dodge” post. Ok, let’s take more time to test/adapt.

Who was the guardian on angz?

In the 1v1 arenas, scrappers usually best just about everything currently