Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

uberkingkong.8041:

Where are all the good players at yo?

Define good? Your rating is average, so you should be getting matched with the average player.

See if we had an MMR-based leaderboard, people wouldn’t be getting this misconceptions as to how good they are

Not sure if you’ve seen this poll or the post, but it’s obvious that an overwhelming majority of players want an MMR leaderboard (preferably as the only leaderboard, but I guess splitting is also viable):
http://strawpoll.me/3638200/r
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/POLL-Possible-leaderboard-changes/first

robertul.3679:

If they gonna add leaderboards for pve mobs based on how many players they kill then there would be no actual players in top 100.
Well, congrats for winning against rank farmers! Quite a feat! I guess I should have recorded my solo vs 5 premade win! More useless thread incoming!

You miss the point of this thread. This thread serves more as satire than anything else (I thought this was obvious from the music and the 3x speed where you can’t analyse anything I’m doing).

Point #1: People need to stop moaning about turret engis, any average player can deal with them easily.

Point #2: The leaderboard makes no sense at all.

Justin ODell.9517:

On Friday I lowered the inflated MMR parties receive from +5% per member to +2% per member. I believe the initial value of +5% was too high, and we were aiming to overshoot due to the bad perception of solo vs pre-made. The drop to 2% was based on data from the beta ladder.

Could that may be what you noticed this weekend?

I think the issue with inflated MMR is once you reach a certain tier of players, they will be experienced enough with team rotations that they can automatically respond to what their teammates are doing even without the use of voice communication.
Obviously there is still an advantage with being premade and having access to this, but the gap seems to become increasingly smaller at increasingly higher levels of play. At lower levels of play, premade teams have a larger advantage since pugs have a habit of over committing to certain points.

For example, I was soloq’ing on my mesmer the other day and I pushed far at the start with a pug thief. We both knew when to disengage and actually disengaged at practically the same time and moved into the mid point to burst down a target. Similar things happened throughout the match.

Perhaps with this taken into account, inflation should be something along the lines of a combination of both a percentage of MMR as well as a constant number?

robertul.3679:

Amazing. You beat both turret AND premade.
I once 1v5 some moas in queensdale. They were premade moas too! Maybe I go make video of that.

Only if those moas are rank #1 on the leaderboards.

Also, people haven’t been posting a thread every day for the past week moaning about moas being OP and needing a nerf.

When fighting a longbow ranger, you should always be in a position to LoS when needed anyway.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Which your team’s Thief has to counter normally aswel :p

And thus allowing the enemy ranger/mesmer to freecast :P

Terrorsquad.2349:

We could also take another class vs the ranger/mesmer, like Engi.

Engi can easily win, even with the signet of stone, it’s not immune to conditions, while a mesmer can outkite an engi and have F4

Funny you should say that. Last night I watched Drazhey dominating the 1v1 server on this engi until a power ranger came along and dethroned him.
LoS’ing a ranger means you’re also LoS’ing your own attacks as an engi, when not LoS’ing an engi has to get closer to be effective since its attacks are easily evaded at 500+ range, whereas a ranger can just stand around at 1000+ range and be fully effective.

Anyway this could go on forever and I don’t even know why I’m defending power rangers :x

Terrorsquad.2349:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Pew Pew Ranger is easier to play but also quite easier to kill, so there’s that.

I disagree. It takes me far longer to kill a power ranger on thief then a mesmer due to the 6 sec invuln, block, CCs and random evades.

Well yes, but outside the 6secs signet, ranger is very easy to take down (average, not only on thief)

While a mesmer can kite more than a ranger, so will take more time and effort

So I mean Ranger is easier to be killed than a mesmer, overall vs all classes

But in any team situation, you’ll be in a position where the less mobile classes can’t reach you easily or need to stay on point, your main threat is the enemy thief in the majority of scenarios with either class.

SYPHA.9283:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

For the attention of anyone whining about turret engis being OP:

Beat a team with 2 turret engis, team was either full premade or 3+2. One of the turret engis is #1 on EU leaderboard.
Whole thing is sped up 3x, but if you’re still too lazy, there’s a moment at 2:26- when we essentially win the 2v2 with our mesmer + ele vs their turret engi + thief until the guardian appears. Even then, we are both able to simply disengage and leave the turrets in the dust.

This also shows how unjustified it is to have this guy at #1 on the EU leaderboards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7VE3SHuN64

So, what I’ve learned from this video is…..Mesmer is the easiest class to play. Watch the CDs. Most of the time just spamming 1, rarely using other skills when off of CD and rarely using Utilities.

So, to play Mesmer, spam 1 and f1-3…and run in circles.

First of all, I have less than 150 wins on my mesmer so using his video to judge the class is a bit pointless and isn’t what I’m getting at.

Second of all your argument makes no sense at all. You’re saying that spamming all your skills and utilities off cooldown requires more skill than actually waiting for the correct moment to use them?

Guardiagiurata.7403:

Good fake video, I’m the best turret engi, my girlfriend with my build killed everyone 1v1. Now we could have made around 10.000 videos where she killed all gw2 players 1v1 from gw2 beta LOL
So don’t create fakes like that! That means only you hate engi turret and you are excused for this cause is best class every created! Enjoy your 5v5 tournament won

Nice try, but you are not #1 on leaderboard like this turret engi was, so he must be better than you.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Pew Pew Ranger is easier to play but also quite easier to kill, so there’s that.

I disagree. It takes me far longer to kill a power ranger on thief then a mesmer due to the 6 sec invuln, block, CCs and random evades.

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

Random, you’re bully. You know you are.

Btw, randomly passing here EU PvPers, our team needs a mesmer. So this nub here to be able to go back to his favorite ele and stop torturing our eyes with this ugly asura.
Our new mesmer should be shatter, tall, slender, with lovely smile, and very active. If interested, pm OP or me or Impact.2780.

My ele is an asura too :|

And we also need an engi

If anyone wants a laugh, watch this montage from the same match of someone complaining about the CCs on ts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPiigP1epfw
Might make a remix of this some time when I’m bored… x)

Anton.1769:

OP you right 100%, but I will sugest you try fresh-air Ele! It’s even more faceroll then mes&rang! Semi afk while ownage all map!

Sounds more like you mean turret engi to me.

Kuroko.6239:

Eh… Any Theif can 2 hit kill a ranger and us rangers have no way to defend ourselfs…

A ranger has more thief defense than a mesmer does…

TheFamster.7806:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

They should have a system where if you don’t score a single point in the first 5 minutes, you get dishonor. Not scoring any points in 5 minutes means that person is either afk or constantly suiciding somewhere.

Or meeting the abjured/other ESL teams and getting owned so hard

In which case you 5-man rush home once you’ve wiped and get at least a neutralise if not a kill. This is the correct thing to be doing after a wipe anyway, so promoting that would be a good thing.

They should have a system where if you don’t score a single point in the first 5 minutes, you get dishonor. Not scoring any points in 5 minutes means that person is either afk or constantly suiciding somewhere.

Kuroko.6239:

the clones will do everything if you’re using an illusion greatsword build..

Except nobody uses illusion builds in pvp because they are simply not effective in anything except low-level play. First off, illusions are killed so easily in team fights. Second of all, you need to boon stripping of a shatter mesmer to win in any match-up (1v1 – 5v5) in the current boon-based meta. If you’re getting top scores with an illusion mesmer, then chances are you’re simply not playing against good players (no offence).

Now if we’re talking shatter mesmers, which is the most viable mesmer build in pvp currently, these are harder to learn than rangers because you have to prepare your burst as well as get it to hit. Any half-decent player knows how to dodge a shatter, so you have to either count dodges or shatter when they don’t expect it. If you miss a shatter, it’s a massive blow to your dps.

As for high level play, yes it’s harder to be effective on a ranger than it is on a mesmer, but I get the impression that we’re talking more about the time/effort required to learn the build in the first place.

Sube Dai.8496:

Celestial is not fine, its the best amulet for at least 4 classes. That’s boring.

And berserker amulet is currently the most used amulet for the remaining 4 classes, NERF PLS.

SobeSoul.6910:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

leman.7682:

4. Do you expect a medal?

Nah, the point is that turret engis shouldn’t be an issue for anyone who can work around it. I don’t consider myself anywhere near the top level of PvP players.

The other point is that the leaderboards need a serious change.

Few key things were outnumbering them, LoS’ing them or simply rotating out of a point that had turrets up.

Your point is really pointless considering whether or not you can handle a turret engie has nothing to do with a random pug on your team stubbornly bumrushing the turret engie by his lonesome and feeding it.

You could argue the same for any random pug stubbornly rushing into the same fight that they can’t take. E.g. a thief constantly suiciding at far vs a dps guardian.

leman.7682:

4. Do you expect a medal?

Nah, the point is that turret engis shouldn’t be an issue for anyone who can work around it. I don’t consider myself anywhere near the top level of PvP players.

The other point is that the leaderboards need a serious change.

Few key things were outnumbering them, LoS’ing them or simply rotating out of a point that had turrets up.

For the attention of anyone whining about turret engis being OP:

Beat a team with 2 turret engis, team was either full premade or 3+2. One of the turret engis is #1 on EU leaderboard.
Whole thing is sped up 3x, but if you’re still too lazy, there’s a moment at 2:26- when we essentially win the 2v2 with our mesmer + ele vs their turret engi + thief until the guardian appears. Even then, we are both able to simply disengage and leave the turrets in the dust.

This also shows how unjustified it is to have this guy at #1 on the EU leaderboards.

kitten.1685:

1. team thats literally undefeated runs necro so maybe l2p?

Also with the ESL weekly cup last thursday, the EU finals had a necro on both teams (these teams had beat TCG and oRNG that week).

Girth.5172:

The locations are random, but look in wooded areas, that’s you best chance, I go to low level areas and just run til I find what I am looking for,

One time I went to Queen’s Forest in queensdale to get the daily and couldn’t find a single tree there.

Where’s the best place to get these lumberer dailys? I can never seem to find trees close enough together.

Kryta:
Maguuma:
Shiverpeaks:
Ascalon:
Orr:

Seems like somewhat of a pointless poll to me, the only people who would vote against this would be people who are trolling.

Well then, I think it’s pretty clear from the poll that people want an MMR leaderboard.

The Wall of Champions in the Heart of the Mists hasn’t been updated since 2013…

I would much like a list of best locations to get the various location gather dailies.

LangerIsMyName.8063:

I had someone pose an interesting idea to me, figured I would share it here. What if ANet did their ladder where only “X” games you did in ranked counted towards leaderboard status. Then the person who won the most of “X” games would be at the top of the leaderboard. That way it takes away the grind away from the leaderboard, and shows the people who actually win all their games in rank are at the top of the leaderboard. Only problem with this is settling ties, which you are bound to have , and I’m not sure how that gets tackled. Thoughts?

That pretty much has the same result as the ’Only include last ### games in leaderboard" that I proposed.

Poll is up: http://strawpoll.me/3638200

JTGuevara.9018:

To me, leaderboards are fine. The only thing it needs is to award rank points for only saaaay…..3 or 4 matches a day, just to prevent farmers, but that’s it.

This requires you to play every single day in order to keep up, rather than playing 8 hours at the weekend. Not everyone has this freedom.

I had an even worse experience before.
I was trying to join a teq taxi, hit join but the listing disappeared before I got in. Did the same again with another listing. I then started getting to “You have joined too many parties” message even though I hadn’t actually joined any!

Edit: My post got ninja’d by another person saying the same thing.

Shiyo.3578:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If you hate turret engis so much, play a class that destroys turret engi like staff ele, power ranger, condi ranger or power necro.

I don’t even know how to respond to someone suggesting we should all play staff ele to counter a single build.

What? I didn’t say we ALL should. I also only named classes that absolutely destroy turret engis as a suggestion if they are such a massive issue for said player, plenty of classes can deal with them.

And I would say the exact same thing to people moaning about mesmers or thieves.

Bazooka.3590:

3 new thread of “nerf turret engi” each day means theres something wrong with that build…

Or we just have a really whiney playerbase.

Muusic.2967:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

you can’t expect to be able to do everything you want and get AP for it.

I know that’s obsurd to actually expect to have fun my way when I play this game. I should have consulted with you on how and where i am allowed to play.

Then do what you want. You don’t need AP to have fun.

“Fast paced” and “tank” generally do not belong in the same sentence.
Unless you class an s/d acrobatics thief as a tank.

I don’t know why they don’t just scale turret stats with your own stats. One of the issues is they can afford to go full tank and still get maximum turret damage/

Muusic.2967:

Inb4 anyone who would argue that it is an arena pvp event I would point out that there’s no way to get the daily done OR earn AP without participating in a Dragonball..

It’s not even the main daily, the main daily is still there. This is bonus AP. And believe it or not, the whole point of “achievement points” is that you have to “achieve” them, you can’t expect to be able to do everything you want and get AP for it.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Either have a cap of 100 games a month (some one from other threads have suggested) or developed a system that reflects all casual players who play normal hours.

That would be me: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-Leaderboard-Suggestion-1/first#post4778543

I’m going to put all my suggestions together into a single thread with a detailed analysis of each one.

Thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Possible-leaderboard-changes-analysis/first#post4786788

Lordrosicky.5813:

They insta-made everyone rank 80 with one patch?

I knew so many dudes who were grinding a ton to get to rank 80. Those people all quit because there was no rank system anymore.

It was maybe the strangest decision ever made. It seemed like someone who thought they knew everything about the game got giving free reign to just let their ideas run rough-shot unchecked over the game.

In fact that is what development has felt like for pvp on this game for 18 months or so. There seems no checks and balances on ideas at anet with some terrible ideas just suddenly popping up on live servers when nobody ever asked for them.

I have little hope for the expansion. It is like if ONE person (any of us) was put in charge of an aspect of the game it would suck. It is hard to find our own mistakes. Seems like collabarative development truely was just a PR exercise.

People quit because they couldn’t grind in a game that was advertised as being non-grindy? Right.

In saying that though, LEADERBOARDS LOL.

When do the two super powerups in the centre of the map spawn?
They don’t spawn at the start of the game. Also, do they respawn at specific times or a certain length of time after they are picked up?

Cynz.9437:

turrets should be affected by condi dmg and crits

Crits sure, but condis just wouldn’t make sense so there’s no way they would implement that (bleeding turrets ftw?). I guess one might argue that the engi itself is already weak to condition damage.

glock.6590:

Turret engi is skillfull

Pfft you didn’t even post this on my thread. Amateur troll.

So rather than having leaderboard suggestions spread across various threads where neither players nor Justins (by which I mean devs that actively participate in forum discussion) can find them, I’ve decided to place them all in a single thread with an analysis of each suggestion.

Poll here: http://strawpoll.me/3638200

Suggestions are split into three categories:

1. WITH MMR

Suggestion 1a: Have a completely MMR-based leaderboard

Pros:
Leaderboard based purely on the MMR of players. Allows for the most accurate representation possible of a player’s skill level in comparison to other players.
MMR is used to create fair matches by comparing ratings, this rating system therefore reflects a player’s skill level as accurately as possible.

Cons:
Impossible for players not in the top-tier of PvP to attain certain rewards. You could however argue that these rewards should only be attainable by the very best of players and be otherwise impossible to attain.

Suggestion 1b: Use MMR as a point multiplier

Current point system is adapted, but the resulting points are multipled by some sort of MMR-derived multiplier. This could be split into tiers (<1000 MMR = x0.5 multipler, 1000-2000 = x1.0, etc.) or could be a more direct representation.

Pros and Cons (points are too subjective here to split them):
Player skill plays a much larger role in determining leaderboard ranking than the current point system.
It is still possible for players of reasonable skill level but not in the top-tier to climb to the top of the leaderboard by putting in the hours (could be good or bad).

2. WITHOUT MMR

Suggestion 2a: No change

Self-explanatory, I doubt this option will see many votes.

Pros:
Allows anyone to gain rewards at the top of the leaderboard (may also be a downside).

Cons:
Little reflection of actual skill level. Rewards grind.

Suggestion 2b: Most recent matches

Only include the past ### of matches in determining leaderboard ranking (e.g. last 100 games).

Pros:
To gain rewards, you still have to put in the required effort to reach the required number of games. Players in the top-tier cannot simply farm rewards by playing a few matches.
Grind is greatly reduced, leaderboard is not just a case of playing the most games.

Cons:
Not actually sure about the cons for this, will add them following discussion.

3. SPLIT THE LEADERBOARDS

Split them into MMR-based and point-based leaderboards.

Pros:
Rewards are still attainable by players not in the top-tier, with a seperate MMR leaderboard for comparing skill levels.

Cons:
Clutter. May be confusing for players when looking at the leaderboards unless it is designed well.

Midma.6081:

It was just an unranked pvp match I joined through the pvp finder

By PvP finder, I assume you mean the Game Browser, which is the 3rd tab on the side of the PvP window.

This is not normal unranked arena, this is in fact a list of all custom game servers including private servers. The official custom servers are the ones named “Server _”.

I would however suggest that you try practice mode or unranked mode in the first tab on the left side of the PvP window. Practice mode allows you to join and leave whenever you want, unranked forces you to stay in the match for the full duration.

Saiyan.1704:

Either have a cap of 100 games a month (some one from other threads have suggested) or developed a system that reflects all casual players who play normal hours.

That would be me: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-Leaderboard-Suggestion-1/first#post4778543

I’m going to put all my suggestions together into a single thread with a detailed analysis of each one.

Midma.6081:

I was in my first Pvp match yesterday… We were winning by a large margin and all of a sudden. I go to click an orb to take the middle base. After I clicked the orb. It just kicks me from the match as if nothing happens. I didn’t recive credit for a win or loss.

What did I do wrong? I plan on trying again when I’m off work but. I’d really appreciate an answer if possible before I do. Thanks.

Was this in a custom server? You may have joined someone’s private server by accident and been kicked out by an admin.

timmyf.1490:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Turret engis when played by low MMR players will be matched against other low MMR players. As we have established, the low MMR players are the ones most likely to encounter severe issues with this build. This allows low MMR players to shoot up the leaderboard with this build.

So, I agree with you that leaderboards should be an indicator of skill, not grind, but I have to point out that this statement is silly.

Suppose a player has an MMR of 1200 and plays turret engy. If he starts winning, say, 80% of his games, his MMR will increase. Now he’s playing against MMR 1400 players, for example, and will find less success.

The build itself is unrelated to the player’s success on the leaderboards. As has been pointed out, a sub-50% win rate means that this player is either a) not particularly good or b) consistently matched against harder competition but manages to score a decent number of points.

The problem with the leaderboard is the non-zero-sum point system.

Think about gambling: every casino game has something in common. On average, the house wins. You might win a game or two here or there, but on average, every dollar that is spent produces something 98 cents of winnings. (Or substantially less, depending on games.)

This means that the more people play, the more they (slightly) lose money.

Leaderboards are the reverse: the average “winnings” is slightly positive, meaning that the more games which are played, the higher the scores of players on the leaderboards.

This could be solved entirely by ensuring that every score distribution is zero-sum, meaning the total of all points awarded is zero. Above average players would have positive points. Below average players would have negative points.

Your theory requires that rating be directly proportional to leaderboard points, which it certainly isn’t. Take this examples:

You play a match where you have a 10% chance of winning. You lose 500-300. Under the current ladder system, you will actually gain 1 point on the leaderboard. You will not however gain any MMR from this. I’m not 100% about GW2’s Glicko2 system, but you will either lose MMR or simply remain the same.

Now if you lose a match where you have 55% chance of winning and the outcome is 500-400, you do not gain/lose any leaderboard points. You will however lose MMR under any rating system.

If you take these examples into account, the turret engi in question is constantly having his MMR lowered back to the correct MMR, but these losses do not always result in a drop in leaderboard points.

Also everyone is missing a very obvious (but situational) counter. Get the turret engi before he reaches a point. If you just killed him (or her, but guys are generally lazier), then get someone to head to the enemy spawn point in time to take the engi down on respawn. Anything that isn’t a bunker class works for this job.

The engi will either die on the way to the point, or waste his turrets before he reaches the point, allowing you to fight him away from this turrets.

Shaogin.2679:

Having played a turret engi before, I take out the rocket turret then burst down the engi. They have horrible defense against conditions, and will not pose a threat at all against long range non-projectile damage.

Adding to this, if you are a condi spec then save your biggest condi spike for just after they use the healing turret combo as this is their only source of condition cleanse. Chill is particularly effect when used in this manner, since it slows down the cooldown of their next heal and is allowed to last the full duration.