Guild Wars 2

it’s not your fault – this is just the way the cards were dealt – so I’m not going against your preferred build – I’m just saying that they give one class a set of tools and the other class loses a set of tools- then when you finally figure out ways to adjust to your liking, they nerf it again. I personally haven’t even bothered with perplexity runes because I don’t depend on confusion in it’s wvw nerfed state – I usually go for raw damage with a touch of condition to cover people who run too fast for me to wabble over for a finishing move.

I can’t even consider spending a fortune on perplexity runes to test it because it will change and they will add some other rune in the future that will render any tests I did now moot.

It’s frustrating not to be able to formulate plans when you are either out numbered – got nerfed or simply don’t have the tools you need to run the build you want – it’s not like we have many skills and weapons to choose from to begin with. I’m facerolling the npc’s in pve though from so much damage output in my mesmer, but i don’t have to run as much and confusion actually works right there lol

unfortunately – they nerfed confusion itself as well. I think I do ( or did ) great in wvw despite all the weaknesses they gave to mesmers. but as is , before the torment runes – thieves just appear – spike – immobilize – hide – and I’m here trying to run away like a pregnant hobbit. – sure I can teleport – with a massive cooldown. sure I can invis – for 1 -2 seconds – light armor – enough said.

the cool downs and light armor are not in the mesmers favor – a thief can literally dodge conditions off with traits – it’s unbalanced. The mesmers chance is in being able to move fast to compensate this difference – and even then I’m forced to do a different build than my preferred greatsword build to afford that luxury of moving fast per clone in world.

damage and speed are my defense. nerfing that – you may as well strap me to a chair, slap me and say you won.

traveler runes cost over 50 gold …as a wvw’r I have to stop playing wvw to grind for them. so that’s another flaw. = thieves get a signet that’s insta speed. – then get to heal miles away while in stealth.

yeah, but unfortunately not everyone is as honorable as you. -nods with respect-

in the first pvp game ever – the teams had to agree not to use op spells – that’s what friends did to keep it fun and competitive for both teams. There was no game kept score, simply mutual respect.

so basically it’s ok to stay perma stealth, turn people to stone, so they can’t fight when you’re visible, go invisible, then stack torment which can cast 2 times per second if I move, go invis again, watch me die from trying to run – then spike me from the back……..but nerf me with light armor, slow mobility because i can actually end your character just as fast ?

more shiny stuff please!!

yeah, but if one server can have constant coverage – and the que’s are bugged where one server can only que 60 and another 150 – it’s not balanced – it’s an illusion of balance.

I don’t want to pick on your server – because you have done a wonderful job of showing there are reasonable people on your server – I’m changing my focus to ‘cold’ ‘hard’ facts which are the stat sheets they use to judge everyone. cold hard facts have nothing to do with sincere warm friendships. facts don’t cooperate, friends do.

I’d much rather lose a fight with a friend than win a fight with a shiny hunter.

it’s metrics for the win – highest score wins – metrics show vanity loves high scores – guess what happens next when it’s easy to stack a server to ensure a win ?

nerf the torment runes now – unless the whole purpose of it is to create yet another inbalance for elitist players. – they issued the new torment runes mirroring the same stats as perplexity – if they nerf the perplexity runes – while putting out torment runes unchanged – then they are doing it on purpose.

i was just looking up the rune of torment, which basically has the same thing but with torment which probably does even more damage – being that the confusion skill is nerfed in pvp – it does half the pve damage. but torment hasn’t gotten “fixed” yet. – so i suppose thieves have a month or 2 to enjoy that before torment gets halved and the runes get nerfed. I’m tempted to come up with a torment build for my mesmer, but i’d rather not even try – it’s obvious it will change.

my mesmer moves like a tank and dies like a fly. i’d have to make him weak and useless to balance out the damage he takes. can we at least have decent damage ? no…I’m going all pve – wvw is stressful, and this is a game – a pass time, not a job. there is no real pvp to get into.

hey, while you guys are making the mesmer even weaker, can you please slow him down some more and make any runes I could use to fix this more than I can ever afford so I have no hope of ever pvpn’g in wvw again ? thanks!!

this is probably the build I was talking about earlier that the t1’rs had no idea what I was about lol

So much to be done with variety in wvw – I have a few ideas I wanted to try myself – but not mentioning them on the board because I’d like to see my server do it first.

The trinity is not dead – it actually evolved if you look carefully! ( even that might be saying too much to those who get it )

i’d go with the que being broken myself – i noticed the same thing on my server.

#markedfordeath

no matter how you dress it, wvw is a pve zone with pvp in it, you have to grind for stats – the score is false.

wvw can either be a full story line that has pvp – or it can be a half baked competitive pvp arena.

i hardly experience skill lag on my server- but recently I started seeing it again as well.

the real problem again, is the score……. I see what anet is working at – making a 3rd pvp choice of pve mixed with pvp – the problem is the scoring tilted the scales to competition and totally killed the story / rpg value of wvw – so instead of it being a complete storyline with pvp involved – it’s a half finished competitive arena without a real story.

well that’s also the point and argument vs the overkill servers – lower tier servers enjoy more of the challenge because we don’t have as many people to go pure brute force – the “blob” is what brings the street brawl element to wvw that isn’t fun and considered mindless. there’s a lot of people fighting, just swing. While that’s fun in sudden bursts – it’s not fun as the whole game. when it’s blob vs blob, it’s fun, when it’s blob vs door – it’s not. Not all servers can field blobs – so it’s only fun for a few – thus flawed.

what i get is that the wvw’rs don’t like spvp because it’s not as intellectually stimulating as wvw.

I was watching some matches yesterday – ( wishing we had an spvp locker in wvw )

and realized the only thing intelligent about the spvp fights are the builds – otherwise it’s a hit and run with the best build, pure dodgeball, No siege, no organized teamwork, no work involved in capturing an area, just a street brawl.

and that “Did You see That ?” announcement was very….

i like them myself, if you look at the max levels of those skills – it’s as if they planned a whole new level of strategy – what i don’t like is feeling like i’m cheating my main character out of progression every time I play another character. It’s not like i’m going to play the same way on every character – my low armor characters will probably spend more time on ranged sieges , where as my high defense characters can do the flame rams and sieges on the field where it’s easier to attack me. I won’t be a geek gawd just because all my alts share my wxp – they would all have their weaknesses and unique purpose.

the problems with zergs is when they go above a certain threshold that lags the game, and overwhelms smaller servers that can’t field those number. zergs are a staple to wvw – and especially fun in face offs. The real problem is when its 5 to 1 ratios.

it’s like anything else, keep it balanced and it’s good – 100 man zergs are not good for anyone because of lag and because not all servers can pull in those numbers. And yes, a 100 man zerg vs a 40 man zerg is mindless – so i’m not retracting that.

swimming is fun, drowning is not.

players get an option to invite other players to form a team of 20 on the party panel – when the team hits 20 – the the team is replaced by a commander icon on the person that started it

this will help low population servers form zergs when commanders aren’t on.

even that’s hard because everyone beelines for the flameram – and most commanders insist on being the one that lays the rams – i’m level 3 now – can easily bump it to 5 – but holding off because i never get to go on lol – luckily i do a ton of damage to the door with weapons so I still get the credit for that -

i play wvw regularly, and for me it’s a bit grindy even in wvw achievements ….. they are not hard to do , but if I’m in a zerg that moves and kills lightning fast and my mesmer is moving like molasses sliding uphill on a cold icy mountain – i wont get that achievement ….my server kills that fast. when I go solo to cap camps the enemy zergs beam down and zap me that fast too lol – so i need traveler runes to make him run faster ….and thats about 55 gold – doylaks – forgetaboutit – they melt when my server just looks at them lol.

life is different down here – our zergs travel like they are having an everlasting sugar rush with intravenous red bulls. bang yer dead ..what just happened ? heh.

add to that ….fc started some new strategies that make them look like world war z rofl – really enjoying the leagues actually – everyone is pulling out their best stunts down here! heh.

with all respects …that just made no sense.

The t1 servers have only 2 opponents their size, everything under them is the t1 vs pv door roflstomp. so you are saying the bandwagoners got bored of being stomped and that’s why they left ? they needed to be player vs door vs everyone else except 2 servers ? and even then you guys claim you can stomp jq and upset that they have easy weeks ? I do read the forums you know.

i totally agree, which is why I’m just going to avoid building any other characters. I’ve come to the realization that I bought 1 character for gw2 – if i wvw with any other character I kill the progress on my main character in wxp – any gold i spend on other characters will strip my main character from being maxed out in stats – especially if they add ascended armor. I really feel very upset about this, but i’ve also come to appreciate that we are looked at as the vocal minority. The only way i can accept this without going ape kitten as accepting I bought one character under anet rules. I have no desire to roll a string of half built characters. Just to get the traveler runes or divinity runes I want – is going to cost over 50 gold….. I make less than 2 gold a night since I play casual – and I also have to grind to get my magic find up in hopes to find the matts faster to get any ascended armor on my mesmer – in addition to spending another undoubtedly insane fortune getting my tailor up to 500…… just thinking about the grind I have to go through to build 1 full spec pvp character stresses me out …forget about alts and forget about investing anything further into the game, forget about ever becoming a commander – that’s just another insane bill – I’m just going to play and when I get the stuff for my 1 character, – which will probably be never as I can’t see myself putting up with that forever – I’m just focusing in enjoying whatever financial and time investment for one character. I give up and from all that i’ve seen in this forum, it’s a waste of time to try to reason – I will still try because I do like the game art / community / and the basic mechanics – but i’m obviously being put in a choke hold …and that just doesn’t sit well with me so I can’t let myself get too attached. I’m doing my best to do good despite that nonsense, but anet put a yoke on my game mode that i really don’t appreciate at all.

for no other reason than wanting the best stats on a pvp character – wvw is pvp. I don’t care about skins…I usually dress all in black anyway.

that depends on your build, with a great sword …my mesmer can often cut about 5 people’s life in half and the zerg follows up with finishing them off…..with a 1200 reach …that can be pretty intense when people try to run away – unless they are very fast, hardly anyone gets away from me – i got the timing right lol…….- but you need to be very glassy to go there. I still roam solo though to take camps and face dive into zergs trying to take one out before i get dropped. I usually do that to buy time for the rest of the zerg to get away if we are outnumbered.

ascended gear is more fun in pve – so I wouldn’t throw them out of the game.

But denying a pvp’r the best stats available, is no real competitive pvp. sPvp has that and is correct, but those maps lack the strategy and excitement found in wvw, and wvw apparently was supposed to simply be a mix of pve and pvp for a 3rd choice….I get that but The players ultimately want it to be competitive pvp. – The minute they put a score on server matches – ascended items were blasphemy. No score, it wouldn’t have mattered.

@fluffy, I noticed the same thing on my server also – some of our best wvw players I’ve seen in game were in one guild I joined – they never transferred to another server – but out of a guild of over 300 – i only see like 3-5 people on at any given time – so while we also have very high population status – most people just hardly play anymore. I wouldn’t want those accounts kicked though – these guys are serious strategists and definitely want them on my team should they come back! – but all the same being considered high population isn’t exactly accurate. maybe during the holidays we’ll have plenty of overflow on lions arch – but it’s not long lasting.

again, i’m speaking in general, i’ve seen comments about not knowing what we are talking about simply because we use different techniques. So while you seem to be very reasonable, the turncoats you harbor think anyone who doesn’t run a cookie cutter build has no idea what they are talking about.

If all t1’rs thought like you, I wouldn’t have much to say, but unfortunately they don’t.

what’s done, is done, and history has been written – this could have been fixed long ago but that is no longer an option and we now have anet looking for ways to bring reconciliation to this issue.

@Obsidian – the point of our debate and my stance is you considering t1 the best pvp servers. When in reality it’s simply the server with the most wvw’rs. You guys are more of a Heavy weight division, but that doesn’t make you the best fighter in the feather weight division. we are out of each others league, but it does not give you the right to think we bronze servers don’t understand the logistics of war and don’t understand wvw. You may have a best in your league, but that doesn’t make you the best in the game. – ahem.

also, I’m not addressing “you” personally, you actually seem like a nice person and I would probably enjoy watching you work, I’m addressing the consensus view that I believe is flawed …..for arguments sake, we are representing our leagues view. Our league doesn’t like yours primarily because you left us empty and threw the game off balance for a win, you killed a potentially well balanced fun filled game for the rest for the needs of a few – there are more unbalanced matches than there are balanced because some people can’t take the heat.

the bad karma is the idea that you emptied our servers to fill yours. ( Again, not “you”, but the sum of everyones actions who had no loyalty to their servers, had no patience to train their brothers and would have rather trampled them…understand the RPG value of this too ? – those who left had no regard for loyalty….those in t1 that were loyal to their servers are tarnished by associating with them. )

those bandwagoners would have to be transferred to their own server then put in a 3 way so all those loyal to their servers can punish them – for not having loyalty and for tarnishing your name. But that won’t happen…so we are back to point 1. T1 is just heavyweight….but not the best.

my issue with the t1 servers is they threw the balance off from the whole game – then go on to compare that to being top notch pvp’rs. I’m not badmouthing another server….I’m jumping on your whole leagues case lol

You also said – "For one thing, zerging simply requires a high degree of teamwork. "

Following the bouncing blue ball and hitting the same target is a high degree of teamwork ?

I will be nice because you were polite in your discussion.

I wish you nothing but the best – but the wvw matches are lopsided because everyone ran to t1 – this isn’t “your” fault – but I’m not prepared to accept explanations about how that is sophisticated and makes t1 players the best pvp’rs. So politeness and all, I have to draw a line.

you could actually use spvp to test builds, the problem is they have different stats – and the strategy is completely different – but still can be used to tweak defense vs offense builds.

For example…as a mesmer, I’m backline – and spvp is very closed quarters – but all the same i can test different runes that would normally cost me 60 gold ( ie travelers ) to get a max balance of defense and offense – without leaving myself penniless to test a build. It’s still not the same as being on the top of a tower fighting at a distance though – but better than nothing.

I suppose it would be nice to know what the cap is at now and then compare the average attendance of the servers. Even if you did balance out the population, there is the issue of non stop coverage that a server recruited for, vs a server of exclusive na or eu players.

One possible solution would be to color code the matches as opposed to direct server vs server. Then rotate the servers assigned to the colors – this way eu servers and na servers can join 1 common match to have that round the clock coverage without the need to transfer.

The individual servers would then be ranked based on their participation of the match along with servers on the most winning colors. This would eliminate 1 server winning because it has all the people. so if x server capped the most points in their color – they get ranked based on that number. Then the top score would simply represent the most active wvw server – as opposed to “the best pvp’rs”

there could be 3 matches going on with 17 servers per color – which brings it to an average of 4.25 servers per color per match.

Each color would be a mix of bronze, platinum and gold servers. That can join any of 3 matches ( or 4 – which would probably compliment the overflow system you are working on now )

there would be no ques for any of the servers – because a new match would spring up as each map got full.

and if a guild wanted to join and play together – then they could have a choice to que up for the map the rest of their members are on …or just join a new map while they wait.

and yes, back to the original topic – the lower tier servers find new and innovative ways to cause lots of pain very fast because we need you out the way asap. we don’t have the luxury of having teams alll over the maps in excess.

yes, exactly another reason I don’t find t1 fun….It’s a game. our server is way more fun and still have their hardcore qualities – we promote thinkers.

You just confirmed the claim I made about t1 being mindless. – Do as you are told or you will be screamed at .

In our server – try it ..let’s see if it works … and if it does….it becomes part of a new strategy. You are free to be yourself and play as you want on lower tier servers so there is more teamwork with people who learned by getting facerolled lol – but didn’t quit.

actually, i took some time to think about this – there are 2 hooks to the game – one of the time you invest into your character ….will make it hard to leave the game ……the 2nd hook is to take a short cut and just buy everything – but then you would have invested into the game and wouldn’t want to leave. The only solution is to not care to break those chains and hooks.

It also seems that the wvw community is infact the bigger voice because they are the ones that have to invest the most time/ effort / money to have any diversity -

OMG – how can you leave gw2 after you invested allllll that time and money ?

Solution – just laugh it off when you log out. you bought 1 character.

yep, I remember those days – it was horrible …..we’ve been getting it again recently though when all the servers meet up in one area – but still not as bad as when we were more populated. how can you even call that a game when you can’t cast ?

our new players learn quick or quit – so it’s pretty clean cut down here. You either have the courage to face the odds or you leave. so once again…..no. It’s good not to brag, especially when there’s nothing to brag about.

unfortunately, 95.353200% of statistics are made up on the spot. you could actually be great pvp’rs – but it’s been a while since you went head to head with hard core players – less the fluff. my condolences to your bragging rights.

and don’t get me wrong – I do have respect for the t1 core members they are great strategists and I give them that, I learned about wvw from them before bandwagoning became a big trend – I was lucky enough to see ‘them’ at work …but the fact that the guilds that abandoned their original servers to join the winners makes up most of your audiences – tarnishes your image.

yeah, lucky for you there’s no where else for your bandwagon guilds to go when you lose. This may sound sarcastic, but that hurts a server to a point that it’s boiled down to the hardest players. t1 has a lot of fluff. It’s one reason our server is friendly, the whiners, cheaters and complainers left.

it makes us better because it’s easy to rage quit and want to transfer to a t1 like most bandwagon guilds that can’t take the heat. It’s very discouraging to get overwhelmed to a point that you can’t raise up the numbers to fight back….it takes courage to fight back anyway ….and even win sometimes.

win or lose, Our glory is much sweeter and t1 losses are more bitter – because you had the numbers.

the difference is the lower tiers don’t have enough to do both offense and defense when they are attacking your keep and both your towers. Much more decision making and compromising. a group of 40 can defend a keep vs a 100 man zerg- but when your map has a population of 50 …..and they have to constantly travel back and forth to empty borders – it changes the strategy. There is a difference …a big one. Lower tier servers have to hit harder, move faster and make more compromises because we don’t have enough people to watch our backs. this is also with a pug style population too – so it’s not like we have 50 man guilds working tightly in unison – so on that aspect alone – we have more of a rule of thumb approach as a server

if you haven’t played for a while on lower tier servers, there is no possible way you can understand the difference. I’ve played on higher tier servers, I saw the difference clearly – and it’s simply a different style of play. You need more strategy in lower tier servers to compensate for the lack of manpower. You need more courage and character to be outmanned and still claim all your stuff back – and even though we are facing balanced fights ….we are constantly getting 2v1’d in our own leagues. why ? because when they don’t , we take their stuff. And I’m not even being specific about my server – when a 3rd server is losing because they haven’t enough players, they fight for 2nd leaving 1st and 3rd attacking the server in the middle. The first server is trying to keep 2nd place server from grabbing first, the 3rd server is working with first server to avoid getting smashed by 1 and 2 , and the 2nd server is fighting everyone trying to get points to take 1st.

there are 9,945 ranks in wvw – enough said. gw1 , you hit level 20 and had a variety of choices of what to pvp with without losing anything. Someone drank too much red bull at this gw2 meeting.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Ricky.4706:

pve builds more on balance and defense

I don’t think you’re doing it right.

while I can’t speak for all characters, I can speak with great confidence for a mesmer.
They have horrible speed buffs, and horrible armor – any defensive boons last 3.5 seconds or less and can’t be spammed – Someone tried to teach me speed running – and it hit me …..very very hard ….i kept dying repeatedly and realized I’d have to completely rebuild my zerg spike build, which i plan to make much more powerful.

this game is a trainwreck when it comes to balance in every sense of the word from pve to pvp to different classes. Someone who was part of gw1 wasn’t part of gw2 – it’s painfully obvious – literally.

the very idea that i should have a cookie cutter build that works in every part of the game doesn’t mean I’m not doing it right, it means anet isn’t doing it right – because I can’t play how I want – which is to have one specialilzed build for pvp /wvw and another for pve. There is no argument vs this.

yap, basically you only get 1 real character when you buy the game…any other character you build will only steal progress from your main… lol

trebs and cata’s shooting pies – with the boom / pow effects – honey pouring out of the fire pots on golems slowing them down to a sticky halt – instead of a flame ram, you need a special tootsie roll to take down the doors….arrow carts shooting twinkies…..the freeze from the cannons turn people into snowmen…. Those fights are just too fun to leave it at lions arch- need to expand on that in wvw and make one location a pure food fight. Also bring some quaggans to that fight. maybe for christmas you can turn the keep or sm into a gingerbread house ?

yeah, only real men play video games -rolls eyes- lol

the game is just too grindy to even consider alts. there’s really nothing to talk about – even if you gave my guardian/warrior/thief my 110 rank on my mesmer – i wouldn’t play it because as a PVP’r …i want the best stats…period. no negotiating on that point. I bought a mesmer – that’s all the time i can afford.