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well i was under the impression that RPers just pretended the canon story is kitten and/or done by someone else that totally isn’t their PC.
And by asking you what you meant by that, I was trying to figure out whether you thought it was a good or bad thing.
which means my first statement was right. you pretend personal/living story is someone else.
way to make a circular argument :/
This quote of yours wasn’t directed at me, that was to RyuDragnier.
Sometimes the best answers are short and to the point.
In hindsight, there should have been more build up or discovery before reaching that point. Lesson learned.
yes, you can be the anonymous soldier on the lion’s arch invasion, but unless you pretend the instanced story doesn’t exist/is someone else’s doing, then you start conflicting, because every player character is “the guy/girl that took scarlet down”. the RPing in GW2 can only be done player-to-player or player-to-game, never both at the same time.
If you’re going to RP based on your personal story, then yes you’re going to find very few to RP with.
…but unless you pretend the instanced story doesn’t exist/is someone else’s doing…
That is exactly how you handle it. You don’t dismiss lore, you put the burden of success unto some undetermined NPC. That’s how you RP within the same universe of the IP you’re taking part in. Someone (an NPC) is out there beating Zhaitan with Destiny’s Edge, someone out there (an NPC) beat Scarlet, and someone out there (an NPC) booted into Omadd’s machine and saw the visions.
I agree, I’d like to see trees come back at least to shroud some of the destruction left over.
“Remember Ascalon” rallied the defense of Ebonhawke. The cost and continued costs of the Charr Pyrrhic victory over Adelburn was, to me, a morale blow to them that probably stopped them from achieving victory at Ebonhawke.
Ebonhawke was an example of Adelberns spirit. Rurik would never have built the place. It was stupid to hold it. But they did. Ebonhawke taught the Charr that Ascalon was more than a place on a map.
Adelbern was old, stubborn, intractable, and filled with Hatred for an enemy. Conceding Ascalon was not an option for him. At the end he was a desperate man who performed an act of Madness upon an enemy that would have killed them all anyway.
Martyrs are often “madmen”. A Charr who had destroyed his enemies in the same manner as a last act of Defiance would be a legend told to Charr larvae. The “Eternal Legion” would have been revered.
Victors write their own histories. There were no human survivors of Ascalon city to write one.
And that’s what I liked about him. Despite how insane he was, what means he was willing to justify the ends with; he was a pretty cool character from a reader’s perspective.
He was broken by the Searing.
Bringing news of Rurik’s death certainly didn’t help either.
what i’m trying to say is that unless you don’t touch personal/living story, or treat it as a separate canon as your made-up story, then conflicts will arise.
No conflicts should arise if you actually pay attention to the lore. Nobody is dismissing it, or shouldn’t but rather their character isn’t being cast as the main character. Again, looking at Arah – there are dozens of airships out there all fighting their own supposed battles (you’re seeing Zhaitan’s Dragon Champions flying all around) and holding their own. All a creative RPer has to do is think about that unknown character, and imagine themselves in that role instead of their personal story.
GW2’s story isn’t written in an RP-friendly way, just like GW1 wasn’t.
That sounds more like an excuse for having a lack of creativity. GW1 RPing was fine, it’s just the whole instances out the wazzoo made it pretty difficult to interact with people at random. It wasn’t an open world after all.
Again, nobody is taking canon elements and pretending they don’t happen. It’s just any respectable RPer doesn’t go around Divinity’s Reach proclaiming, “Yeah, I killed Zhaitan with Destiny’s Edge.” That is when conflicts arise.
Yes because we’ve actually seen them in GW1 nightfall. We even killed one.
This is a misconception by the player. We, the player and the band of heroes we work with (Devona, Stephan, Koss, Dunkero, etc) maybe represent 0.9 of the worlds population. The world itself never got to see Abaddon like we did. So its all a myth in everyone else’s eyes, a legend to inspire the young and so that they can pass it down to their children.
half of elona got to deal with evil tendrils and nightfall beasts killing everyone, as well as the return of the margonites.
and palawa joko was brought back so he could help the heroes of legend defeat abaddon, and joko is, well…
And the Titans broke through the Door of Komalie, spreading out throughout Tyria. Catastrophes did happen. Just nobody saw a god walking among it all.
that’s not my point. my point is that it’s very clear to tyrian society that the gods exist, even if a good chunk of them hasn’t seen it.
i don’t have to personally see every little thing in the world to know it happens/exists.
That is my point, however. That through years as the events have passed down from father to child, the legitimacy of the claim would slowly fall out of favor. Truths would turn to mythos. Add 250+ years on top of that, and it boils down to a game of telephone.
You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.
That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.
you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).
and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. You can be very creative by seeking alternative stories without putting yourself at the center of it all in the personal story. I didn’t Scarlet, for example, my character was in Lion’s Arch trying to help strengthen the foot hold so the forces guarding the Breach Maker were smaller. Or hell, maybe even my character was in gandarren fields running orders back and forth or helping refugees establish themselves.
So busy that the whole Anet team is working on it and every other aspect of the game is left behind.
And it is comments like this that stops the devs from posting on the forums.
Good job.
It just goes to show that when people finally get an answer, they shift focus elsewhere to continue being upset.
In GW1, he was just an old, stubborn war veteran who had family issues.
Hence madman. He refused any and all help from outside sources and was trying to fight a battle Ascalon wouldn’t win. He practically renounces Rurik for running away and demanded that everyone in Ascalon fight on their last breath. Losing his son when he found out was like the last straw.
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Certainly their creation would signify something about their power and about the curse.
They were magical because Orr was the home of the gods in the physical realm. It’s a misconception to think they were created for the purpose of The Foefire specifically, more so it was by association with magical prowess.
Curse was cast by the sword and must be undone by the sword(s). That’s the only connection there is to Orr. That they were created there but for an entirely different purpose.
Also, you reeeeeeeeeally hate Adelbern.
Actually, quite the contrary. I liked Adelbern, he was a good villain. He portrayed the dark and vile aspects of humanity, the lengths humans could go to and in doing so being just as evil any creature or god – despite being physically and magically far less superior. He was a madman and all madmen deserve justice.
note: the twin swords were created pre-exodus(0 AE), but they weren’t given to Ascalon royalty until the end of the Guild Wars. No idea if that’s important, but they weren’t “created” as peace tokens, they were only given as such.
It’s important in that they were imbued with magic and made powerful. By that same token though so are Twilight, Sunrise, Sunset, Spark, etc
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The swords were made in Orr by humans for humans there is no reason why the curse would break for a Charr.
Again, their creation and original purpose has next to nothing to do with their application during Adelberns spell. Orr created the blades as a token of peace. Peace became meaningless when Orr was sunk into the murky depths of the Ocean.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. They were meant as tokens of peace because of the Guild Wars ending, they didn’t have anything to do with the Cataclysm.
I didn’t say they did had anything to do with the Cataclysm. After the Cataclysm peace between Ascalon and Orr was meaningless, their creation had nothing to do with the ritual Adelbern subjected his own people to. In this regard, the purpose of their creation is irrelevent to be mentioned in regards to the FoeFire – it does not care.
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This also isn’t a spit in humanity’s face as a whole, I disagree. This is a spit in Adelberns face and that guy deserved to be taken down a peg. He left his son to die when his son had the right idea. Kitten him! :P
A Charr lifting a human curse is anything but Charr “admitting defeat” but more the opposite. The Charr should not be the ones to lift the curse – it’s a human responsibility.
For me, that’s what I love about it. I think that’s exactly the point. It’s believed to be a “human responsibility”, a charr is practically spitting on that prophecy in attempting to do so.
And in the process it denounces 250 years of growing culture and society for the charr, and further dilutes the little lore humans have left from the original game. Why do that when both races can have their lore and stories in-tact?
Looking at it, I don’t think it “denounces” anything.
The Charr have been beating Ascalonians for decades and all Ascalon could do was repel the Charr efforts but never beat them back. Even with their civil war, the Flame Legion was able to crack that defense. Adelbern in his stubbornness knew that with his death, if something wasn’t done, his people would fail him and his legacy – he would be a smudge in the history books. So he came to the insane conclusion that not only robbed the Charr but also entailed that for an eternity Ascalonians would fight.
Within these 250 years, these ghosts have been beaten and then returned every other week to continue what they were doing before their initial defeat. A reset button on constant rotation. Even for a Charr that’s heavily taxing on their body, to fight an enemy that can’t relent – irony.
So for a Charr to undo this curse, is a bigger wad of spit in Adelberns face than any you could construe that the task would do unto the Charr. In this sense, victory is its own reward, it’s as if they’re beating Adelbern at his own game and not being a human while doing it. No, in representing the image that he and his people have grown to fear and hate – they would be released by their eternal enemies. That’s just poetic justice.
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A Charr lifting a human curse is anything but Charr “admitting defeat” but more the opposite. The Charr should not be the ones to lift the curse – it’s a human responsibility.
For me, that’s what I love about it. I think that’s exactly the point. It’s believed to be a “human responsibility”, a charr is practically spitting on that prophecy in attempting to do so in fulfilling it. Were I Adelbern just before that moment, where my soul is about to be forcefully ripped from my land and thrown into the mists and Grenth’s sphere of influence, I’d be kittened knowing my efforts were undone by an enemy that I absolutely hated.
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I don’t think ending the curse is admitting that magic is better than cold steel. The curse can only be ended by the shattering of Sohothin, a magic sword. It would seem more like he’s destroying the magic thkittening it, at least IMO.
It comes down to pride. The FoeFire robbed them of what they believe is their birthright. When pride is at the helm, you do anything to justify your “rightful claim”. Honestly it’s poetic justice, Adelbern wanted his people to fight the Charr forever and here comes a Charr beating him at even that. Removing the curse as a Charr is not just a staple but an insult to everything Adelbern fought for.
I just find Rytlock even -trying- to end the curse at this point to be incredibly detrimental to the Charr Race’s history and story. It’s practically admitting defeat. “We can’t do this our way. We’ll do it the Human and Flame Legion Way.”
I’d argue the treaty between humans and charr did the same thing. Removing this curse by any means necessary, be it through Charr or Human standards wouldn’t save their old traditions. But change does happen and it affects every one involved.
The Treaty with the humans is hardly admitting defeat. Indeed, since it was Jennah, I believe, who initiated the treaty in the first place, it’s more like the Charr achieved victory. Just seems to me that this is not the way for the Charr to end the Curse of Ascalon. It spits on 250 years.
The past 250 years hasn’t been “the way of the charr”. They watched champions defeat their false gods and in doing so turned to their shamans, those who were in charge of leading them to victory after victory following the Searing, and cast them out. The FoeFire itself spat at them because of the Flame Legions resilience and it got many of them killed in addition to it.
This is hardly a game-changer this late into said game.
I just find Rytlock even -trying- to end the curse at this point to be incredibly detrimental to the Charr Race’s history and story. It’s practically admitting defeat. “We can’t do this our way. We’ll do it the Human and Flame Legion Way.”
I’d argue the treaty between humans and charr did the same thing. Removing this curse by any means necessary, be it through Charr or Human standards wouldn’t save their old traditions. But change does happen and it affects every one involved.
Yes because we’ve actually seen them in GW1 nightfall. We even killed one.
This is a misconception by the player. We, the player and the band of heroes we work with (Devona, Stephan, Koss, Dunkero, etc) maybe represent 0.9 of the worlds population. The world itself never got to see Abaddon like we did. So its all a myth in everyone else’s eyes, a legend to inspire the young and so that they can pass it down to their children.
half of elona got to deal with evil tendrils and nightfall beasts killing everyone, as well as the return of the margonites.
and palawa joko was brought back so he could help the heroes of legend defeat abaddon, and joko is, well…
And the Titans broke through the Door of Komalie, spreading out throughout Tyria. Catastrophes did happen. Just nobody saw a god walking among it all.
In fact, it was always my personal headcanon that he refused to even -try- to end the curse with Sohothin for exactly that reason.
I agree, I thought the same. But desperate times can inspire desperate measures.
On the other hand, it could also be interpreted as showing the Charr’s practical nature. Since vines apparently appear somewhere in Ascalon, I can imagine that they would rather not fight three very major threats: the Ascalonian ghosts, the Branded and now also Mordremoth’s minions. Sometimes desperate situations require desperate measures, here represented by a magical sword used by a race that frowns upon it.
That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Having zero to do with Ley Lines but rather the prospect of re-allocating resources. If the roots are anything to go off of, it looks like they’re taking place in Iron Marches and not the Plains. The Roots could be the, “Straw that breaks the camels back.” and inspires Rytlock to act.
You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.
That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.
For a Charr to solve Charr problems with -magic- is just… I honestly can’t tell you how insulting it is. It’s practically going, “HEY, THOSE FLAME LEGION GUYS WERE RIGHT, MAGIC IS BETTER!”
Yeah but to that same token, magic isn’t a new a concept to the Charr. While you can say that they disassociated themselves from the Flame Legion, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve abadoned magic as a practice entirely – just the religion that the Flame Legion adhere to.
It happens off-camera.
Not really, it’s right there in front of the player. It’s just the magnitude needs to be down-scaled due to how much ends up going on at once. What happens after the Pact pushes into Orr and heads towards Arah, is pretty much behind the curtain.
The swords were made in Orr by humans for humans there is no reason why the curse would break for a Charr.
Again, their creation and original purpose has next to nothing to do with their application during Adelberns spell. Orr created the blades as a token of peace. Peace became meaningless when Orr was sunk into the murky depths of the Ocean.
I’m actually not sure. Thunderhead Keep just kind of fell off the radar when GW:EN came out. I’d assume it just became snowed over, that like one village in Skyrim where all the trolls are. Since the Dwarves set out to battle the Destroyers underground, their architecture was left behind. There’s actually remnants in places like Lornar’s Pass (I think), there small spot in Timberline Falls where you’re gathering magical artifacts, and South of the Crucible of Eternity is a ruined building sharing the same design – weathered a bit.
, true but it would also be quite amusing to discover a place like thunderhead keep intact yet abandoned
Agreed. There’s plenty they could open up. Blazeridge Mountains, Isles of Janthir; Deldrimor Front is definitely a possibility and a step in a positive direction.
Up to this point, the only explicit mention of Mordremoth in the core campaign was on the Teeth of Mordremoth skill in Crucible of Eternity.
The roleplayer in me wants to shake my head. I get what you’re saying but the player’s character wouldn’t know this. It’s not like the Inquest have playing cards of every single person or being on Tyria labeling their stats. Although in an alternate dimension (Bring us back the Super Adventure Toy Box! FTW!) this could be… entertaining.
I feel like the team during their down time could put some additional text in places and a little nudge in the direction of some to get people to look. The ability to replay Season 2 when we’re anticipating Episode 1 of Season 3 makes for a good opportunity to make up for the change that went down during the conclusion of Season 1 that was meant to address this very topic.
Speaking of: is there any particular reason that the Inquest seem intent on sabotaging it, what with constantly attacking the power grid and other such shenanigans? Do they have reasons for keeping the city from being completed, or do they just look over at Luminates and say to themselves ’let’s test out our new exploding golems!’
If they haven’t created it, they want to prevent others from doing it. Pretty much.
I’m actually not sure. Thunderhead Keep just kind of fell off the radar when GW:EN came out. I’d assume it just became snowed over, that like one village in Skyrim where all the trolls are. Since the Dwarves set out to battle the Destroyers underground, their architecture was left behind. There’s actually remnants in places like Lornar’s Pass (I think), there small spot in Timberline Falls where you’re gathering magical artifacts, and South of the Crucible of Eternity is a ruined building sharing the same design – weathered a bit.
It should be ignored, just as RPing as commander of the Pact or any other aspect of being the “chosen one” based on game stories. Too easy to GodMod. Too assuming that other players will simply accept and validate. They are right to wait and establish it as separate from the “personal aspect” of both LS and PS.
There was a saying in Guild Wars when it came to RPing as the Chosen. Went along the lines of, “Yeah, you and just about every single every person on this planet it would seem.”
Yeah, it’s taboo. I haven’t really seen or ventured close to it, simply stayed on Dry Top near the Centaur village.
Yes because we’ve actually seen them in GW1 nightfall. We even killed one.
This is a misconception by the player. We, the player and the band of heroes we work with (Devona, Stephan, Koss, Dunkero, etc) maybe represent 0.9 of the worlds population. The world itself never got to see Abaddon like we did. So its all a myth in everyone else’s eyes, a legend to inspire the young and so that they can pass it down to their children.
I do have a feeling it is not the actual foefire curse cause that would not only change 4 maps but the entire AC dungeon as well. Also since there is a ghost buster achievement the change may be too big for GW2.
AC wont change because chronologically, it takes place before the defeat of Zhaitan. The Living World takes place after.
It’s the Foefire curse. The only one that the Charr really care about because it’s the only thing keeping them from what the Charr themselves believe is their birth right.
“Sohothin as master key of all Ascalon curses” requires more presumptions than “Rytlock attempts to break the Forefire curse”!
And no, the Foefire curse does not require both swords, not according to the prophecy. The prophecy says either.
It may require both, as curses are tricky, but as of now that’s merely a guess.
I do get the feeling that Magdaer will come into play. Remember, it’s a “multi-parter” episode. Maybe Rytlock loses Sohothin and as a token of appreciation between Eir and Rytlock, she gives him Magdaer – that way the image of Rytlock with the FDS doesn’t have to change.
Although at the same time I doubt that. I’m expecting see Magdaer play into this somehow – sometime.
They just need to add some lines of text so when people go back and play Season 2 from start to finish, they wont even recognize it. No additional scenes, just a line of dialog in Episode 1 with Mord’s name getting dropped during your investigation of Scarlet’s place and then in Episode 2, the player brings the name up and the NPCs can be all “Wha?”
Personally, I’m not a fan of them. But more variety is always a plus even if I don’t like it or the Ley Line stuff.
Why would Orr make an item to restore the charr after sacrificing themselves to defeat the charr.
Orrians made Magdaer and Sohothin for Ascalonian royalty as a token of peace. Once Orr was sunk into the sea, peace became meaningless. The Foefire took place way after, it was purely Adelberns doing and Orr had nothing to do with it.
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Can I haz katana naow?
Me sarcastically: “Oh no, Belinda. What will you do Majory? That’s tragic, truly.”
Me: “Hey! I know… gimmy dat sword!”
/e grabby hands
Plot favoritism? While I identify with the humans most, and most of my alts are human or sylvari, I really like that ANet has spun things in Tyria so the humans are the dwindling race, nation after nation lost.
Right and I agree. ANet intended for GW:EN to portray humanity no longer bieng the first in everything. While I don’t necessarily see humans on their last leg as they said back during GW2’s development, I like how they aren’t center stage while at the same time… center stage. Divinity’s Reach is highly successful and thriving despite the sacking of Centaurs. It puts a certain spin so I do hope that the Charr do get what they want.
Has anybody spotted any Vines heading towards one of the Ascalonian Providences?
I think the Locket will be apart of Part 2. We might not see anything about yet.
I’m wagering that because of the name “The Dragon’s Reach” not only has this has nothing to do with the ascalonian Ghosts, Rytlock isn’t in the ascalonian catacombs or even in Ascalon. He’s in the catacombs below Divinity’s Reach in Kryta, the ones that were visible from the great collapse before the Queen’s Gauntlet was built over it.
Then why would Rytlock say, “Ascalon, I free you of this curse.” and he’s quite clearly inside of Barradin’s Crypt which can’t be found in Divinity’s Reach.
If you want to split hairs, the Charr and humans both inherited the land from the Forgotten. So, technically, if you want to argue the point of ownership, it belongs to neither race.
So there.
True but only the Charr have had any interest in always getting it back. Neither the Forgotten or the Grawl had tried to amount any sort of… pay back.
I don’t see the contradiction. A country is a culture that occupies an area. Humans “established Ascalon” the country, on the “large portion of the land” that they conquered. The name has now stuck, but it wasn’t Ascalon until the humans made it so.
Where does it say the Charr in GW1 called it anything else? Humans established Ascalon City but that doesn’t mean the land, territory, was never referred to as Ascalon. If we’re going to use real world comparisons, when Europeans settled into the Americas and America (the original 13 colonies) succeeded, our founders became Americans.
Ascalon is a former human nation, not an area of land.
Huh?
Humans conquered a large portion of the land and established Ascalon in 100 BE and holds King’s Watch, where King Doric was crowned.
I don’t understand how you can link to a source and have that same link contradict your statement.
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Ghosts will only go away within the living story if the speculation turns out to be true and happens. Everything else will remain the same. Zhaitan died, and the corruption lifted, but you still see risen all over the place.
That’s different. The risen weren’t being kept alive by a curse or anything. Once the curse is lifted, every ascalonian ghost goes poof.
The living world takes place after the personal story. So if you do Ascalon Catacombs, which is apart of the Personal Story in leading towards stopping Zhaitan, it’ll treat you as though you are playing past events; that the living world hasn’t started for you yet. Hence the whole level 80 requirement.
The reason I believe that Logan should do it is because of this family connection with his great-grand mother, Gwen Thackeray. That to me is a strong enough bond between the present and the historical Human Ascalon.
But Gwen was basically a normal person in Ascalon.
She had no power, nor did she have any real connection with the nobility. She was just an annoying kid that got caught by the Charr and then held a grudge for the rest of her life trying to kill all Charr she found.
While I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to pull some kind of nobility out of the corner for Gwen, it is t rue that Gwen was merely there to represent innocence in Pre-Searing. Losing her was supposed to be a blow to the “feels” but given that nobody spoke of Gwen directly while in Ascalon, Post-Searing, people suspected that she was out there somewhere. Sure enough she ended up surviving Charr warparties into adult hood.
yeah, if i recall the intent was keeping the ascalonians from fleeing, by binding the whole freaking nation to this world after death.
“retreat? retreat is not an option!”
he wasn’t trying to kill charr as much as he was forcing ascalonians to keep on fighting… forever.
It was also to rob the Charr of their would-be accomplishment. He was a big dunce and should have taken the advice of his son.
But what if they die somewhere distant in the mists? I think the example you’re referring to is Abaddon and I think he was already sort of in Tyria when he died.
He was in the Realm of Torment. When he struck back at the gods, they ganged up on him and defeated him (they did not kill him) and then bound him to the Realm of Torment as his prison.