Lore becomes useless when no effort is made to be consistent. What is the point in making the Sylvari dragon minons? Angst? We might as well make Guild Wars a Space adventure first person shooter. Those are popular, right?
Wake me up when they’ve moved on from the Sylvari to focus on other races.
i’m surprised there really are people that believe it was a recent decision.
While I find it silly myself, it’s not actually that surprising. People get skeptical when material posed as evidence isn’t conclusive and since many don’t like losing, it makes sense that denial is a key factor. Really though, a lot of those who were against the entire “thing” (since it’s not a theory anymore) were entering the discussion with all of these preconceived notions based on bias. For example, I myself didn’t like the Sylvari at the start so the idea that the Sylvari were Tyria’s immune system to combat the Dragons was absurd to me. :P
I heard the trailer might have briefly shown a thief with a rifle. All I could think was, “Wow… Are they actually adding the commando/sniper as a specialization?”.
Lols, that’d be awesome.
Warrior gets ? -> ?
A Warrior doesn’t have: Shortbow, Focus, Torch, Pistol, Dagger, Staff&, Scepter
I’d love to go around all Staff Fighting (City of Heroes-style) as a warrior using kungkittenvia staffs.
Elementalist gets ? -> ?
Elementalist does not have: Hammer, Sword, Rifle, Pistol, Warhorn, Greatsword, Mace, Shield, Axe, Longbow, Shortbow, Torch
Much like the warrior, I’d have loved to see us turn an Elementalist into a melee fighter using a different form of staff and have the: F1, F2, F3, F4 elements influence the properties of the skills used.
What is the point in making the Sylvari dragon minons?
You mean, besides origins? Why did the Asura take up Ratasum? You’d have rather them just pop into existence and pretend like they were never underground to begin with. Or why is Divinity’s Reach the heart of human civilization? Well because Ascalon got nuked, that’s why.
I believe the Heart of Thorns revelation of the Sylvari as minions was planned from the beginning and is actually the reason for the ‘lore inconsistencies’. The Sylvari story strikes me as being written backwards, with the HoT revelation being written first and their creation story designed to fuel speculation about their true nature.
IMO, “lore inconsistencies” is turning into a cop-out coming from people who just didn’t like misleading themselves into believing a false outcome. I mean, being a supporter of the theory since day 1, as rewarding as it is, I can look back at all the past topics and nod saying, “Yes, it was pretty obvious.”
A lot better than Sylvari being Tyria’s Immune System against all Elder Dragons, were you to ask me.
Still a better story than Twilight.
Is there even such thing as “dragon energy”? I was under the impression that the dragons simply absorbed and used the natural magic of the world. So other than maybe being a bit more concentrated, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
Crucible Of Eternity pretty much answers that.
That being said, the theory would make sense. Keep in mind, the Asura were responsible for “atrocities” against the Sylvari upon first contact. Perhaps Vropp was just some radical thinker who in researching his studies over again, realized something peculiar.
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another thing about mursaat is they’re completely evil.
This is where I disagree. They had a disagreement with the Seers and Forgotten (based on GW2 lore) on how to address the Elder Dragon threat and out of arrogance fled to save themselves.
In Guild Wars: Prophecies, you could easily twist in a way that is more chaotic-good than truly evil. Yes they killed people, they harvested their souls to power the Soul Batteries which in turn kept the Door of Komalie closed. That same door was the key to the Titan Invasion. Furthermore, The Flame Seeker Prophecies (according to Guild Wars: Nightfall) were a fabrication designed by Abaddon to put into motion a course of events that would have lead to his own freedom had Prophecies ended in Kilbron’s favor.
To add note, The Flameseeker Prophecies detailed the Mursaat’s demise. One could easily argue that, again, they fought out of self preservation. Now yes, the fact one Justicar sacrificed a whole lot of Chosen on a Blood Stone to power himself was a bad dude but if anything, that just means he wasn’t necessarily acting on the will of his masters. The Champions, the players, were seen as a threat because we (our player’s ancestors probably unless if you’re Sylvari, SORRRY NOT SORRY) were trying to fulfill the Flame Seeker Prophecies.
You could also argue that their Jade Bows, Armors, etc were products of souls collected being given eternal life to protect the people of the White Mantle. Which, well I guess to relate – you couldn’t call all Germans who fought in World War 1 and 2 evil, they were simply on a side of opposition fighting for what they believed in.
See, this is why I felt the Mursaat were actually pretty awesome. They weren’t your regular black-villain vs white-hero.
Probably not as she likely holds the key to removing Mordremoth’s influence away from her people so the Sylvari can be a “failed” attempt. Those that survive the civil war-like scenario we might be getting in HoTs anyways.
Hm, even though they’re still using still-images to illustrate the story – I think him kind of vanishes is a clue here. While I do think with the Pale Tree still alive somewhat, I wonder if he’ll go evil and through him there’s some way to establish one’s connection back with the tree. Hard to say, it seemed pretty ominous that in a shot of the army approaching Eir, Zoijia, and Logan he was nowhere to be seen. Trahearn isn’t one to back down from a fight by what we know of him so far and would die where he stood.
The other possible outcome is he died but they would have made that a big deal. He’s not a rogue so sifting back into safety to strike from the rear is highly unlikely for his character. Despite being a tactition, espionage doesn’t seem to be his line of work – rather he directs people to do it but not he himself.
Yeah, by that same token I should go on ranting about GRR Martin should just quit writing because he kills off all of my favorite characters thus far (with a few exceptions) and I think that is bad form.
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This is important to echo. Yes I have disagreed with Konig plenty of times in the past, my opinion of him is that he often picks and takes dialog of his choosing to strengthen his argument. Using things literally when they suit him and using things figuratively when they do not. Fact of the matter is, the theory was right, it’s time people accept it and move on.
I have disagreed with him many times as well, but to be honest, many of us used such way to argue before.
Definitely. So it’s with our experience(s) to sit back and say, “Alright, settle down. They don’t need pitchforks turned on them.” Actually speaking of which, I was one of those who thought Eye of The North was going to tell the tale of Menzies usurping Balthazar and plunge Tyria into chaos – jeez that expansion disappointed me. xD
Honestly, I think Lazarus is going to succeed at reconnecting himself and open some kind of doorway that would lead into the Isles of Janthir (or whatever realm of existence they ran off to when the EDs were last up) and in doing so, (assuming he succeeds here) open the flood gates to a legion of Mursaat that were simply locked away. Watching your forward command post fall and everything else with it due to people rising up against you, sooner or later you should just cut your loses and retreat – that’s what I feel the rest of the Mursaat did while Lazarus was just one left behind who had no alternative.
More or less it would imply that Mordremoth was, in my opinion, the father of The Nightmare, and The Nightmare was his way of saying, “Knock-knock, anybody home?”
I can see what you’re saying but that would mean that the Pale Tree is basically an accident – a man stumbles into a cave, finds an interesting seed, then as a grieving father plants it over his family’s graves.
My opinion? I think that’s exactly what it was, an accident. See a bunch of monsters defending a clutch of seeds and are willing to die to protect them. Why not. They were just seeds to him but he had no telling what role the Sylvari would actually play nor where the seeds came from.
Basically to summarise this thread:
- Konig broke.
- His horde of sycophants begged him not to leave because he is the ‘loremaster’.And it’s hilarious.
I might not agree with everything Konig has said and done since the reveal (in fact, I disagree with pretty much all of it), but that’s just a cheap shot, both to Konig and the people that support him. Please have some respect for your fellow human beings.
This is important to echo. Yes I have disagreed with Konig plenty of times in the past, my opinion of him is that he often picks and takes dialog of his choosing to strengthen his argument. Using things literally when they suit him and using things figuratively when they do not. Fact of the matter is, the theory was right, it’s time people accept it and move on.
However, I do not think Konig is a bad man and in no way should badmouthing people that have taken is stance be encouraged or paraded around. Yes it was all well and good, people fought the fight and those that stuck around were rewarded (I wish The Indoctrination Theory ended like this myself, blast you Bioware). People have ideas and when those ideas don’t go according to plan, there’s going to be denial. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles. But attacking people for disagreeing even to this day, the simple fact that some were right should be vindication in of itself. No need to rub it in.
- How does the nightmare fit into the picture?
Personally I have said in the past that it could be Mordremoth testing the boundaries of the dream. An unknown invading force spilling corruption would of course turn a happy go-lucky dream into a nightmare. But being how resourceful the Pale Tree was, the Nightmare really never had a face which is why I think Caithe erronously attributed the tutorial to imply Zhaitan – a simple flaw of misinterpretation done by a notable character. Which I actually really liked.
- Why do sylvari have free will? Is it nature (a replication of the forgotten spell) or nurture (the Pale Tree grew powerful away from Mordremoth’s will and is able to protect the minds of her children through a combination of her magic and the virtues from Ventari)?
This begs the question of whether Mordremoth was meant to awaken earlier. That could imply that the Nightmare was actually Mordremoth whispering, because he couldn’t shout, “Yo, were my plant people at? Lets get this party started, what gives!” If he were to be delayed, that Scarlet’s actions were the sole purpose of setting everything in motion, it would also suggest why the Forgotten had any role to play in that area – maybe they were testing whether they could subdue an Elder Dragon or not. If it were true that Mordremoth was “late” then it would suggest that the Forgotten had the right idea.
That being said, simply put – I think it’s a matter of parenting. The Pale Tree was just raised over ideals that were different from their original purpose. But then what of the other seeds, I ask?
- What does this mean for sylvari from other trees?
Precisely.
Honestly, I think a completely unexpected race is a possibility, since there’s sort of a hint of a race (Mursaat, maybe? Their home is supposed to be deep in the Maguuma…), but I doubt it’ll be Tengu just yet.
Soooo the mursaat came back in total secrecy over the last 250 years without anyone knowing of their existence?
I doubt.
Not to mention, as far as we know, there is only 1 left.
There’s one left that we know of. I don’t recall lore anywhere stating that the Golden City within the Isles of Janthir too fell apart after Guild Wars: Beyond – War in Kryta. But I’m bias, I loved the Mursaat so seeing them come back would be pretty kitten awesome.
Seemed pretty obvious from the start. This was just an answer given to the community regarding a question often debated about since beta. Now we get confirmation and people cry foul play. But that’s neither here nor there.
I’m curious as to what entails the rest of the seeds, where is Mallyck and whether or not we’ll see him. Will he even be good? The thing about the Pale Tree’s origin was direct intervention. Did Ronan go back to the cave to take another seed?
Clearly not all sylvari are affected, I believe the Dream isn’t just the Pale Tree but… inception. A thought planted by the Pale Tree and through the years of dreaming, the Sylvari born into it have given it life on their own. Hence we see the players as immune. I think that’s kind of neat. While The Dream doesn’t make one immune, it provides a substantial amount of resistance, thus giving an excuse as to why we wont suddenly go into a rage and lose control over our Sylvari characters.
Canach’s dialog in the trailer for HoT also implies skepticism. “What are you doing? We are not your enemy!” Fear and decent is gripping societies across Tyria after The Risen and Zhaitan’s near complete catastrophic decimation of The Pact. Naturally, minions of the EDs are to be considered with extreme prejudice. Then we have Scarlet who opens a large scale war on Lions Arch, Aerin and the suspicious assault on the Zephyrites. It all just adds up to influencing skepticism. That Sylvari merchant while humble could be tricking you and ready to stab you in the back, all in the name of Mordremoth.
To me, I’m just glad they did something cool with the Sylvari. They were always boring because they were such a pale-blank-slate and now there’s conflict – and not just between the Dreamers and the Nightmare’ers.
Still hopping Primordus enters the fight and somehow the fires of Sohothin stir him out of his hidey-hole. Primordus’ thirst for destruction is only quenched by the over abundance of corrupted life that is Mordremoth. The enemy of my enemy is not quite my friend but he works parallel.
Then of course Mord withers away and goes off to hibernate and now we have Destroyers all over the place which is a perfect segway into the Dominion Of The Winds.
We don’t really know what entailed getting Glint free, or if the tablets were solely responsible for freeing the tree.
Uhm… we know exactly what it entails, we replicated the Forgotten ritual on a smaller scale in Arah exp on lil’ Twitchy and freed it of Zhaitan’s control. :x
One of these days I will get to do Arah explorable and see this stuff.
True tho that we don’t know what’s more to the Pale tree. Though… I think I just said, it was the common theory with it being based on mostly friendship&love!! that’s bothered me and how close the current reveal we got is to it.
Though I’ll also say that it is fine by me if the full reveal is without all the things that made this theory unfounded (and cringeworthy) aka the tablet and its power of love being the bane of EDs.It’s probably not the tablet and power of love directly so much as it is . . . sort of like imprinting a spirit into it, perhaps? Repeated workings or readings almost ritualized having been binding the will of Ronan and Ventari into the tablet itself and thus seeping into the Pale Tree over time?
I mean, it could be written in a way so that it isn’t just out as “the nurturing power of love triumphs over evil nature” while retaining the same essence of the thoughts.
Besides, we know what the bane of Elder Dragons is.
Cannonfire.
While I don’t want to throw us off track here with further theories of non-related origin. Some people do believe that ghosts actually exist simply because enough aura of a person had imprinted onto any object of particular thus creating a copy-like ghostly image, which suggests why ghostly miners are seen repeating the same duty in some cases – reliving their moments be it famous entertainment or anger.
I do not think Ventari’s tablet is magical so to speak, at least not yet. However, I am inclined to believe that even in a fetal stage, The Pale Tree was listening. No different than the fetus in the womb kicking, it is conscious but it can’t quite understand what is going on outside of the mother. But this went on for years as well, decades even, inception.
That’s the problem with writers not paying attention to established lore.
Shouldn’t be so quick to jump to conclusions here. Yes there is reason to believe they changed some stories around to fit the Living World but certainly not all. While I understand it is nice to take things with a grain of salt, openly declaring their lack of intelligence on their own work is a tad bit… disingenuous and frankly, disrespectful.
I would like to think the story would be much different if their work was transparent and we could see the story boards in all their form, the scripts – speeches just before lunch being recorded and uploaded to Youtube. Frankly, that’s not how the business works, we have limited information and not near as much as we could have if we worked under ANet’s roof.
With the revelation that Sylvari are, in fact, dragon minions, I now believe the following:
1. The Dream is actually the “hive mind” of Mordremoth, the same way that other dragon minions share a hive mind with their Elder Dragon. The Pale Tree is protecting the Sylvari from Mordremoth’s corruption by essentially “filtering” it, somehow, allowing the Sylvari access to knowledge from the Dream, but without granting Mordremoth the ability to control the Sylvari through it.
Going to disagree here. I am of the belief that the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s attempts to get inside The Dream and corrupt it where as The Dream is the Pale Tree’s product of resistance.
The vital key to the Sylvari in our (the player-sylvari) case is that The Pale Tree has worked hard to resist that which sought to harm it even though The Pale Tree had no real clue as to what was behind it. This poses the question however on what will happen to poor Mallyk the Fauna-Snowflake and whether or not we’ll see him. There needs to be some special stipulation to address the fact that player character sylvari cannot be corrupted.
Sylvari of The Pale Tree are a unique form of Dragon Minion simply because they have been tampered with prior to Mordremoth’s awakening. This is what stirred Scarlet into action, whether she was in control of her own actions and wanted to awaken Mordremoth just to kill it or knowingly aiding Mordremoth to awaken it in order to allow the Sylvari to fall into their natural order.
While I’m not inclined to continue rehashing what is now an obsolete argument, I will correct misunderstandings:
we know (i think i’ve read this here in the forum) that corrupted creatures could not be corupted by other dragons.
We actually know the exact opposite – it is, in fact, possible for an entity to be corrupted by multiple dragons at once, as shown in CoE. In fact, the first time we saw the name Mordremoth came from one such creature.
In the case of Subject Alpha, I still find that bit of evidence to be questionable as the events that transpired were unique. They were not natural by any means. To further support my theory here, remember the worker who you speak to explains that the Crucible is used to split energies, refine and, what I believe, re-purpose them. As I had stated in the past, we have not heard nor seen the cross-corruption take place in the natural environment due to many reasons but the fact it has not been sighted remains until further evidence proves otherwise.
Regarding the Pale Tree’s connection to Zhaitan: Remember that in the same instance, we’d just played through a vision of a potential future. The Pale Tree (also like Glint, funnily enough) has some degree of foresight. It wasn’t a sixth sense, it was a prophecy that unfolded just a few seconds later. But when Mordremoth awoke, her exact words were “I’ve known since the moment we’ve heard the roar”. Implying that before the roar, she didn’t know, ruling out prophecy.
Exactly. I proposed the same theory that it was an error in translation due to limited knowledge on the subject of their origin that lead to the miss-identification of Zhaitan being responsible; not Mordremoth. Simple. There was little more than data in CoE that suggested Mordremoth even existed to the player in-character-wise.
There is now a possibility of two distinctive races of Sylvari. The Sylvari of the Pale Tree who are anti-Mordremoth; and ‘pre-sylvari’ who are dragon minions. In the future with the Guildwars 2: Heart of Thorn ‘expansion’, we the player most likely will be fighting Mordremoth that would include these ‘pre-sylvari’ as dragon minions. The pale tree Sylvari would most likely fighting along side us against Mordremoth and the ‘pre-sylvari’ in general.
Edit: The parallelism would liken Glint, glint children, and agents fighting with us in GW1 against our enemy.
Not to mention you have a Sylvari with a sword and shield crying, “What are you doing, we are not your enemy.” The fact the Pale Tree was acting as a defense against Mordremoth puts the Sylvari in a entirely different state than say Zhaitan’s Risen. Although this also makes me worry that Mallyck could be… “troublesome”.
After all, not all Sylvari are likely to turn evil – that’s just the plot of fear mongering. “Any one of them could turn next.” Vibe. The player character will obviously be immune, I just hope they do get some unique dialog that Sylvari players can sift through that reflects the hostilities that may take place in Heart Of Thorns.
There’s also Caithe making the comment along the lines of, “Defying destiny.” So clearly she’s not evil, she’s still got a plan and likely leading to a way to undo Mordremoth.
Personally, I’d rather see the Tengu in an expansion pack that centers on Cantha and taking it back – thus giving the Tengu a story where they’re heading to take their homeland back from the evil-empire.
I think you’re desperately grasping at straws OP, for the moment it’s nothing more than location being the only supporting evidence. We had more interaction out of the Tengu during Scarlet’s assault which is to say, it was rather… violent – yet still we do not have a playable Tengu available yet.
Then we have that Faolain fell into Nightmare while she was with Caithe in Orr and that she was the first. Apparently that never happened now or what and she simply hung out with the NC?
Umm, wasn’t it always stated, that Cadeyrn founded NC, and Faolain just became the leader of it? Pretty sure it was, but I am far from being a salad expert…
Sounds accurate. To my knowledge that is exactly what happened, through some maneuver or another Faolain gained the support to take charge.
Personally I’d like to see going back to Cantha revolve around usurping the Emperor as outsiders inspiring rebellion and giving the Kurzicks and Luxon descendents their sovereignty back. Likewise for Elona, you have Palawa Joko happily leading an empire of his own over the sands of a continent long since forgotten the ways of the Sunspear. So I’d like to see expansions to be less emphasis on the dragons, maybe chit-chats here and there, but more primarily focused on unique threats.
So, in other words the most cited, fanfiction-ish and unfounded theory since beta was supposedly one of anet’s story’s greatest mysteries?
I hope that isn’t something the writers are proud of.
I don’t even really know what to say. Just wow. Lame.
Little condescending there. I mean hell, the direction that information pointed in was fairly obvious. Was it really that surprising, truly?
That’s pretty much a given, don’t you think? We know the Pale Tree was protecting her children from influence, there was just a matter of question as to whose influence she protecting her children from. Be it any ED or strictly Mordremoth. Being that I do believe us fighting the Shadow of The Dragon in the Sylvari tutorial was no coincidence, it would appear that a direct assault on her would weaken any defense she gave and providing ample opportunity for Mordremoth to spread his corruption among his “children”.
Dragon energy is highly volatile and probably possesses a lot of energy, as seen in Kudu within CoE. Considering the gears and coils, probably means to harness such energy.
Malyck might be a descendant of Ewan’s tribe of Humans turned Plants by Melandru for all we know….
This might explain certain Sylvari’s reactions to him.
Hopefully Malyck is what I and others suspect and aids us with the help of other members of Ewan’s tribe against Mordremoth in the final battle of Heart of Thorns.
That would actually be quite interesting. Although supposedly his tree is in the Meguumas which sends a huge alarm as to what Malyck’s possible allegiance could actually be. It was claimed by the Pale Tree that those under her care were protected so it is difficult to say what, if any, other Pale Trees out there were up to. Seeing as there were other seeds, there’s reason to believe Malyck’s home-tree might not be the only other one out there.
Hard to say really. I’m 50/50 as there are still questions regarding his… unique disposition.
Now I’d like to see your opinions on one subject: When Planty goes into nerdrage?
Is it just caused by getting too close to fungal lizard?
You know, that has me curious as well. Were I to hazard a guess, I’d say the conversion of regular Sylvari to minions would be subtle and slow. However, enough examples of those who follow Mord and start attacking innocent people would have the rest of non-sylvari frightened.
In the cutscene you do see the sylvari with sword and shield defending himself, outraged by the assault that is about to befall him. He sounds confused, concerned, and ready to defend himself – not slaughtering. Later we see actual battles which I’d say is just hostilities growing in mass, what we see of this battle is the climax with no supposed conclusion in sight.
We do have the Nightmare Court after all, a ripe source of infantry ready for the taking. So a couple platoons of Sylvari from The Pale Tree would be enough to stir fear in everyone else. Is that Sylvari tradesmen a insurgent or is he running? It’d be like Marvel’s Civil War or the Mutant Registration Act. These things happen in steps. First there’s question, next comes concern, then there’s paranoia/fear, and from there you have violence spreading like wild fire.
Note: Not all Sylvaris will probably join Mordremoth since we the players will likely be immune but that’s a lot of player-sylvari not joining their father’s cause. The player-Sylvari will likely not be the only exception.
Now if Anet wanted to try something really daring, playing a Sylvari character should entail a different form of story to reflect the growing tension. Our allies, the Destiny’s Edge 2.0, likely wouldn’t rush to chop the head off of a Sylvari-player but NPCs shouldn’t go, “Oh it’s you, we’re just going to kill your brothers and sisters – no big deal. But not you, ok? You’re cool.”
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and I’ll say it again. sylvari being dragon minions is incredibly stupid, and I’m kind of surprised mccoys work was taken seriously.
Your comment is going to get removed, but before that happens. I agree. As far as compelling plot ideas go, this is not one.
Piece of advice to the writers. Not everything needs to revolve around the dragons. Your world begins to look very two dimensional when almost every single piece of lore we have in game in some ways ties back to the elder dragons (The Mursaat, The Seers, The Dwarves, Scarlet, The Gods…). We get that they are the big bad and are super important, but too much of one thing gets very old. You’re also tampering with lore that a lot of people love and making it seem rather trivial because you know what ‘dragons did it’.
I’m not aware of any ties between the Mursaat, the Seers and the Elder Dragons…
The tie was only in that the Mursaat, Seers, and The Forgotten both roamed Tyria openly as the EDs awoke during their reign(s). The Mursaat chose to hide while the Seers managed the Bloodstones which acted as a magnet for magical energy, that which the dragons feed on thus limiting their food supply so they got tired and went back to sleep. On the other hand, The Forgotten of course perform some form of ritual that disrupts the link between Glint and Kralkatorric, which gave her the ability to slowly sympathize with the races of Tyria and go then ultimately turn against her master’s goals.
That being said, the lore was relatively new. This wasn’t covered in Guild Wars 1, there wasn’t too much information on the Bloodstones. When this notion was brought to light (via Arah Explorable) a lot of people frankly were upset, feeling like the original plot got hijacked for the sake of the primary threat in Guild Wars 2.
Now that the Sylvari is the dragon’s minion theory is true, I got a question.
Did the idea that the Sylvari being Modremoth’s minion came before the theory was created or after it?
Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if those who were most outspoken against the Sylvari-Minion theory happened to blame Anet for falling under the influence of those who supported the theory. There were plenty of questions since Day 1, hell even during beta as information was slowly unearthed. The similarities in the Sylvari anatomy and that of Mordremoth were too… seemingly… intertwined.
As a person who liked the theory and supported it, though I still had questions myself, I would like to think this was planned since the beginning but details were so sparse that drawing connections then were like picking nails from a haystack.
Can’t win em all I suppose. It was an interesting debate these past couple of years, going back and forth and sometimes more passionate than others. I’d rather not resort to humoring criticizing the writers for giving into player-pressure, as it’s simply bad form to me. At times it’s just easier to throw all kinds of accusations and assertions without having all of the information, information that was kept behind closed doors of course (offices).
The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.
Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.
However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.
We know that is was Mordremoth. That’s the entire point behind her drill being used to wake him up. Anything else would make zero sense at all.
Since Scarlet we’ve even watched first hand the same thing that happened to her happen to another Sylvari. We know that it was him beyond any reasonable doubt.
While I was in support of the Sylvari-minion theory, I do think there was more to Scarlet’s awakening attempt. I think she did so out of fear and was determined to conquer the beast – much like how say Saren in the Mass Effect series was constantly studying Indoctrination for ways to counter it yet not realizing Sovereign was compelling him to cease on multiple occasions. Saren wanted to find a way to stop the Reapers but in doing so, he got too close and I think that’s what The Pale Tree was trying to prevent Scarlet from uncovering.
If anything I felt the Breach Maker was but one step of many that would have followed. Yet upon death she just gave up realizing her efforts were fruitless and that the world of Tyria really did need her… to some capacity or another.
Hm, been a while since I dabbled into the lore. Saw the spoilers and read up on past episodes even though I merely unlocked them and logged out.
It’s pretty obvious Caithe has still a role to play in this story, the line she mentions about “stopping destiny” is more or less her determination to break whatever link Mord has over the Sylvari. The classic double-agent arc where we all think she’s betrayed us and then sure enough, she helps save the day.
As for the Civil War, well come on. Who honestly, that hadn’t been debating this since launch, didn’t see there some kind of unique tie between the Sylvari and Mordremoth. I think it’s cool, it’s only natural that a species comprised of fauna and earth end up being deemed a threat in social structures. Especially with Scarlet’s attack on Lion’s Arch, the people of Tyria would be wary and now you have Caithe whose role to play may not be over but a famous member of Destiny’s Edge ends up going rogue.
Makes me chuckle though at all those who argued strongly against the theory. Looking forward to seeing where it goes form here though.
Caithe`s Secret is still a Mystery, though the “power to control sylvary” thingy, sounds intuiging. Could that be it?
I think what’s being eluded to at this point is that Caithe may have killed Wymm and denied her mercy or something, all to protect Faolain who of course orchestrated the whole thing just to start a battle. Faolain was manipulating Caithe by using their love for one another. Scarlet may have found out that Caithe, for whatever reason, killed Wymm who as far as we could tell was innocent and had every bit of good intention.
It’s establishing a narrative, I don’t understand how you can confuse that so much to find offense in it.
A presumably evil wizard lives there so Im not sure about that…
Doesn’t seem evil at all if he’s the reason that little city is still standing because the elementals, which the wizard is claimed to have created, are protecting the people. :P
EDIT: I always suspected there’s some connection to Lazarus The Dire… although at the same time that floating castle has been there since Guild Wars 1. It’s just a flirt with thoughts really though, the Mursaat were my favorite villains in GW.
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Loki was a trickster who was playing a bit of a balancing act between acting how he wanted (trickster, known to do dirty deeds) and trying to get in better view of his father and half-brother (Odin and Thorn respectively).
When he orchestrated Baldur’s murder (and then subsequently prevented his resurrection), then went on to a party where he bragged about it and subsequently insulted the entire pantheon… well I don’t think trickster is a good word to describe him, of course I also suspect that vikings might have had a slightly darker sense of humor.
Oh the irony. Hours ago friends and myself were talking about theologies and Norse was kind of the topic I touched up on. The problem is the translation becomes garbled due to how convoluted it became, we don’t really know for certain the exact details because most information recovered of Norse is incomplete due to the Christian occupation – which reverted the narrative of the tales. You have maybe three if not more different translations and nobody knows which is more correct.
I’ve always gotten a rather Prometheus vibe coming from Abbadon. It almost seemed like a “what if Prometheus was the strongest god?” scenario.
Prometheus from Greek mythology was Titan (gods from before the Greek pantheon of Zeus et al). Prometheus gifted Fire to humans (giving us our creativity/ingenuity/etc), and this mad Zeus very angry. Prometheus simply could not put up a fight against Zeus and the rest of the gods, and he was imprisoned in Tartarus (analog to GW’s Realm of Torment) where he was tortured for the rest of eternity.
Abbadon gave humans (and other races?) magic, which the other gods did not like. Whereas Prometheus was easily subdued and locked away to be tortured for eternity, Abbadon was able to put up a very good fight (didn’t he defeat two other gods?). Then even after being locked away in the Realm of Torment, Abbadon was able to gain much influence and make a worthy attempt at escaping (and seeking revenge).
Pretty much my thoughts right there, Prometheus and Abaddon sharing similar origins. Abaddon was the keeper of secrets (knowledge) and of course gave humanity the gift of magic which it then used to ravage the world of Tyria via the Guild Wars at which point the Gods became worried by request. Abaddon was offended because in his eyes, what man does with the gift of magic isn’t a concern but all should be allowed to pursue it.
There is also, as previously stated, the attempted genocide of the Margonites by the Forgotten and Abaddon could easily be argued for trying to save his people. An attack on them was likely seen as an attack directly on himself, they were his foundation for his path to his own personal glory.
Personally I saw him as exactly that, a tragic villain who had a mean streak. What followed lead him to be the monstrosity that lead to many catastrophes across Tyria (planet).
However there was also said that Chrystals seem to be very potent magic batteries and that Glint gathered a lot of magic over the years she was alive.
Yeah, it would make sense. Although circumstances aside, that’s exactly what the soul batteries were for that the Mursaat used to keep the Door of Komalie closed. But growing? That would be interesting. It wouldn’t be the first time for GW lore that an abundance of substance would ascertain a conscience.
Even then, it was like pulling hairs to get a connection. The dragon’s are, for all we can find, native to Tyria and the Gods are not as far as we’re aware. The book was likely a light jab at the discussions communities had following Eye of The North as people began to speculate and attempt at drawing connections. Honestly, I always catered to the coincidence-party in that… well something has to control the elements but that’s where Prim and Balth’s similarities kind of stop :P
Except that even the Pale Tree in Episode 3(?) goes on to say that her knowledge on Modremoth is no better than the players. Trahearne also mentions something to this affect in Ep4.
Right now I do not believe it is Anise but rather, unknowingly, it may have been Canach. In order to see whether this was true, I suspect Anise has him going to Fort Trinity in order to test her “theory” since I highly doubt she’d let Canach wander off on his own without some kind of oversight. Which could entail that she’s studying the interaction from afar.
Then again that’s just my guess at this point. I am fully capable of accepting that it may have to do with something else entirely.
Caithe and the PT assumes SoTD is a representation of Zhaitan because during the time in which the prologue takes place; nobody is aware of Mordremoth. Iconic characters are not 100% accurate and still fall victim to error, or can be modified once more lore is produced. It’s like writing a novel, as you go on you go back and update past chapters – adding new elements. This would also further argue Mordremoth’s connection to the Dream if he’s able to draw things from it via the Nightmare.
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This is true.
And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?
It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending
now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.That dragon seen is the Shadow of the Dragon. It has the trees on its back and everything.
sorry i was referring to the dragon in the vision ( was a little tired when i wrote that so yea sorry it wasnt really clear)
That dragon was Shadow Of The Dragon though and not Kralk nor Glint’s child….
With that said so far the only suggestive link I’ve seen so far is the comparison between Glint’s Lair and the scene from the cutscene where we see crystals aligning in a similar fashion. I’m still not sure exactly how Kralk would figure into it and at this point I’m not behind the theory just yet.
Always figured the best ED to put against Mord would be Primordus since fire > fauna.
People are trying through all means to figure out the order of the orbs. None seems to make full sense without stretching everything.
Yeah, it is a lot like trying to force interpretation where there was no real purpose in the order – just cosmetic artistic value. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mordremoth was supposed to be awoken earlier but was delayed instead.