I’m not so worried about the expenses, I’m kind of annoyed that they force us to use three tradeskills to achieve it if you don’t want to spend the money. I barely have any interest in tradeskills as it is so I already have a low drive to utilize them.
Not too sure, I’d have figured Kudu and Teyo were both members of the Inquest’s council and that the Inquest doesn’t have one official calling the shots out above the others.
I’d be interested in seeing how a Soundless reacts to, say, being thrown into the Brand. The Pale Tree’s dialogue is somewhat open-ended; to me it sounds like the Dream’s protection applies to all dragon corruption, not just Mordremoth.
Likewise on the topic of Soundless, at least to see them more whether to prove or disprove the theory all together. However, on the topic of protection as stated by the Pale Tree – I didn’t read that at all. She used Zhaitan for a concept reference but not saying, “I protect them from all dragons.” Nah, she points out Mordremoth directly with the statement, “I protect you from him.” and not “them”.
I can’t recall the NPC’s name but there is a disembodied soul who mocks the fact that that his corporeal form is one of Zhaitan’s minions. So if a soul can be removed from the body, surely upon death the Sylvari’s body would be free game. There’s no enough context to explain this flaw in this particular argument that tries to denounce the theory all together.
The pale tree might or might be like Glint, not sure here. Important facts people are missing/overlooking:
I highly doubt that. The Pale Tree was seen growing at the conclusion of Guild Wars: Eye of The North, it was in formation long before Destiny’s Edge was formed.
1. we are shown via the cinematic that Glints child which we know the Zephyrites were involved with protecting is in the grasp of the Mordremoth( i don’t think those crystal pillars have anything to do the Musart)
I didn’t see Glint’s child. That was the Shadow of The Dragon which was the same beast that struck the Tree just before the cutscene.
2. the convenience of the attack on the leaders…. pay attention to the chat between Anise & Canach they had something to do with it, the whole attack might be a creation of theirs. (take into account Kasmer’s portal gets canceled out… what can do that but not a more powerful mesmer?)
I do think something is going on. However, I’m not sure yet whether it’s nefarious or there’s some positive motive behind it. Anise sends Canach to join Trahearne at Fort Trinity.
. Besides the experiments show that it is possible to corrupt the same body more than once….
Hasn’t happened as far as we know. Subject Alpha, as I said, it questionable because it was tampered with and then put to experimentation. As of right now it completely invalidates the probability.
Also I JUST noticed that at the very beginning the trees are set up in a way where you can see a female Sylvari face. lol
nice catch – extracted it from the HD version listed here
can’t believe you hadn’t noticed :P
before anyone stops speculating about it, no, it doesn’t mean we’re going to find a weird tree with a face. it’s just the pale tree.
Three-eyed Raven!
If you play a Sylvari and kill Zhaitan it says quite clearly in the personal story journal that your wild hunt is complete.
Lets be honest, the Wyld Hunt was a cop-out to get the player character’s sylvari involved in not only Zhaitan but all EDs. My thoughts are the Dream showed you, not your character’s Wyld Hunt, but the Tree or something else’s. Caithe just made the mistake in interpretation because, like the player character, knew nothing of Mordremoth. There’s zero confirmation, only speculation, that the dream makes plant-like representations in the Dream as even Ventari is seen as himself in ethereal form; nothing about him looked tree-like or root-ee.
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My thoughts were that the Pale Tree was, inadvertently, preventing Mordremoth from stirring. So his wake was delayed and it wasn’t until Scarlet became Scarlet that Mord awoke, angry, and aggressive.
Honestly, I hope Livia is rather still in the shadows and, if Anise was in some way her protege (which I’m holding to for the moment) she suspects it might be Livia hence her willingness to see how far the rabbit hole goes.
The problem is Anise isn’t… what’s a good way to describe her, diabolically calculating? She’s just calculating and she acts in Jennah’s interest for her safety. Livia was more, cynical and possessing ulterior motives that sometimes made you question her allegiance. I don’t think Anise right now is capable of betraying DR and what it represents to her, I however do think she’s using questionable methods to find out the answers herself. Double-double agent as it were.
I do think she’s up to something but I’m not so sure she’s Livia. Guess we’ll see if she ends up having the Staff in her possession. That being said, maybe she’s a relative or a protege looking for her/legacy?
I doubt that the Overgrown are a different army, the Overgrown not only share the same model a the Mordrem versions in Challenger Cliffs (while using Nightmare Court variant models in Brisban Wildlands and Cornered), but they fight side-by-side with a couple Mordrem.
Taking considering into account, I’m not going to argue the Sylvari are minions. However I can agree that the NC specimins might be treated to the same behavior that say Corpse Ships acted for Zhaitan. Mordremoth is collecting subjects so we might actually see eventually how you might go from a Fern Hound to Mordrem Wolves.
Something to watch carefully in the future for sure.
As for the attack of one of mordy’s champions on the pale tree. They said it must have been lured there somehow. Is it possible that maybe one of the leaders could have something “magical” that would attract them?
I actually am beginning to think that the source was Canach but I have next to nothing to go off of from that. So I wonder if he himself has become Soundless to some degree and isn’t aware that Mordremoth is monitoring him. This could be supported by Anise sending him with Trahearne, something tells me Anise isn’t just going to let him go without watching him.
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I’ve wrote up my theory before on sylvari being minions (i can still be wrong), and one of the big reasons why people didn’t agree was how they couldn’t be corrupted. It’s already stated now, sylvari can be corrupted by mordemoth. So if one dragon can’t corrupt another dragon’s minions (zhaitan couldn’t corrupt sylvari), it could be even more viable (and could explain the blue orb at fort trinity)?
Except that dragon’s can corrupt each others minions, it just never happened in the wild, since they are too far apart. Inquest experiments (1, 2) show that it is possible. Atleast with a little tinkering.
Well if you pay attention to the dialog of the one Inquest Guard who tells you that Kudu has lost his mind, he goes on to say the reactor splits dragon energies. It’s not just a “little tinkering” worth. It’s completely changing the nature. What you could end up with, were a dragon to corrupt minions of another, is a minion taking orders from two different beings – the downside to having two-minds as it were; you don’t know which orders to take first.
This to me made Subject Alpha questionable therefore I believe, until I see it, that it doesn’t happen in the wilds. The reason why it happens in CoE is because there are unaffiliated forces intervening and transforming the product, creating something of their own so to speak.
No, I most certainly did not catch that. Seems pretty telling we’re getting close to exploring that new Tree sooner or later. Maybe this is a teaser. Perhaps we find this Other-Tree, encounter Malyck, and in some way acts as a quest to help restore the Pale Tree.
Perhaps that’s why she showed you that vision in the first place. She knows she’s dying, there’s only one way to save her, and in this vision she’s trying to show you that odds you might be facing.
I wish I could have killed or stopped phlunt from stealing the device
I’m still not sure why this bothers people. Yes, I do think he has ulterior motives and I’m not quite sure what they may be. But think of it as if he does do something diabolical…. we’re just going to go after him.
Thinking about it some, I wonder if Canach is being unintentionally monitored by Mordremoth. Perhaps Anise knows this and sends him to Fort Trinity with Trahearne maybe to watch Mordremoth’s movements. However, I’m shooting in the dark as I’m not completely behind the later of that speculation. I do want to believe that Canach was the “spy” but unknowingly to the point where even he had no awareness that Mordremoth was looking at him. A “dark heart” as Trahearne put it could just be a moniker to someone who is corrupted and was used as a spy.
Honest question. Did anyone at any points think the first mission was not the work of Caudecus? As soon as I heard plot against the queen I rolled my eyes. The whole thing felt like an excuse to demonstrate Kasmeer’s special powers.
It did sadly. Why they chose to put a supernatural spin on Kasmeer, maybe it’s just something that doesn’t fascinate me. You can generally tell when people are lying in the real world just by listening carefully and watching their behavior. We don’t need some mystical mojo-juju to argue why the character is significant, why couldn’t she just had been a scholar in psychological behavior; after all Mesmers are like entertainers. They should be wanting to study all things behaviror wise in order to ensure their clients are always satisfied.
Back in my old guild, we theorised the order the EDs would awaken, and that it would be in order that matched the ED’s strength. Thus Mordremoth, awake already is stronger than Zhaitan but not close to the others we’ve seen before.
That’s just too simplistic for my tastes in order to agree with it. Rather I rate them by aggression and opportunity. Mordremoth had the element of surprise, going from thorns attaching to WPs to giant roots that could shift landmasses. That’s not to say he was stronger than Zhaitan, he was just playing the game differently. Right now Jor, Prim, Kral, and even DSD are all relatively keeping to themselves; they may see an opportunity as well at a later date.
An avatar of The Shadow? So like a Shadow of a Shadow of a Dragon? Sounds pretty silly to me.
More likely there is more than one, like the Claw of Jormag.
And the shadow of the day…
Will embrace the world in gray.
Gah, that song came to mind reading that. Bad feel.
I’m not going to get my hopes up on anything Mursaat related, lest they get crushed, but the Bloodstone would be a safe bet since it’s nearby. It’s been awhile, but I don’t remember that Bloodstone having so many crystalline offshoots though. It was a bit jagged, but in the cinematic it was positively prickly. Maybe Glint and/or the Zephyrites have been redecorating it over the years? Time will only tell I guess.
I wonder if that’s where the giant beam erupts from though. The Bloodstone. Causing some kind of chain reaction through the Ley Lines. Cue: “Ley Lines.”
I’m still of the opinion that The Nightmare is the result of Mord’s influence at such a minute level that to the NC it felt nothing more than some urge they couldn’t put their finger on. Whether this ties the Sylvari as a whole with Mordremoth or not, I do admit remains unconfirmed. While I can see the implications someone else can look at those same values and see no connection. So fair enough.
To take a note from Mass Effect 2 though: “Even a dead god can still dream.”
I do wonder if Canach is responsible but I’m curious who the culprit will actually be. Hmm… Mr. E perhaps, maybe that’s what he/she wanted – to get us to gather everyone just to wipe us out. Wouldn’t be too surprising really but it’s going to take an episode or more to divulge into that.
man i felt sorry for taimi in this episode. her invention got confiscated and she almost got killed. d’aww.
I don’t. It just means if Phlunt messes up, I’m going for him. I can play the long-game.
The Shadow of the Dragon was originally just a representation of Zhaitan, it was meant to look like Zhaitan’s champions. Why they reused his model, I can only guess as yet another sad attempt to please the masses, done in the (imo) wrong way.
Not necessarily. It’s quite possible that Sylvari characters misunderstood their wyld hunt as “kill Zhaitan.” when in reality, it had to do with Mordremoth.
Understandable, since Mordremoth hadn’t awoken and no sylvari was aware of its existence yet.
Trahearne said in this episode that he knew no more about Mordremoth than the player. The Pale Tree mentioned something similar last episode. While the Pale Tree may have known a little bit more than Trahearne, I think it was more so she was learning as the events were unfolding and attributed this dark feeling to Mordremoth’s wake. Which would, as you say, mean that at during the player story for the Sylvari; no one knew a single thing until Scarlet arrived.
To use my common analogy, were Mordremoth responsible for The Nightmare – his influence would be so subtle that it was like he were grasping the pot but not putting his hands into it. The PT’s protection acts as a barrier, much like how our magnetosphere protects us from solar radiation. For a while, man never knew what caused the auroras.
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The Shadow of the Dragon was originally just a representation of Zhaitan, it was meant to look like Zhaitan’s champions. Why they reused his model, I can only guess as yet another sad attempt to please the masses, done in the (imo) wrong way.
To start, I’m not correcting you here. I’m simply speaking out of my experience in seeing this pattern across multiple IPs and genre of games. Borrowing models isn’t anything new, it saves time. Just copy and paste. That’s why the stairs for the Mursaat were the same, just different coloring, to those found in the Underworld despite there not being any obvious connection between the Mursaat and Grenth. It’s actually fairly common and while I agree that its lazy, Anet isn’t the first nor will they be the last.
However…
…yet another sad attempt to please the masses
Konig, are you seriously going to throw tantrums every time something doesn’t go according to what you thought? Blaming the devs because you over thought something or didn’t think enough on it, is disingenuous. I may disagree with you on a lot and critique you for your own opinions but behavior like this is flat out childish. There’s no excuse for it.
To start with:
The Shadow of the Dragon was originally just a representation of Zhaitan, it was meant to look like Zhaitan’s champions.
Ok, lets think about this. Since day one Crucible of Eternity had reference to Mordremoth (through the use of a jungle section and the name of the skill). That being said, nothing was brought to the player characters attention… they wouldn’t know what name a skill was. Lore in the game however speaks of the wild life in the Meguumas receding back as if something was stripping it and feeding, a jungle dragon.
This is where Mordremoth’s name becomes a controversial topic because the name was never mentioned yet suddenly out of nowhere our character knows. That’s fair, it was planted poorly and the devs of course recognized that.
But the problem is, many of those closest to the Pale Tree had no knowledge of Mordremoth (as seen in DR:EP1 where the Pale Tree asks to be alone with you the player). With that I do assume that Caithe had no knowledge during the prologue for the Sylvari. Making her interpretation questionable, all characters (as explained in another thread) are capable of error. Even Caithe. Now we don’t know what Scarlet was getting at (“Caithe, someday you will see that Tyria needs me.”) but Scarlet’s rise was after the fall of Zhaitan so it can be inferred that Caithe found out along the way or that Scarlet, through her discoveries, tried to approach Caithe specifically and Caithe dismissed her. The point is, the Wyld Hunt is subjective and I don’t think that was Zhaitan’s minion at all – Caithe made an error in attributing that dragon with Zhaitan because she had no knowledge of Mordremoth. Misinterpretation, through and through.
In closing, I’m all for calling out anybody who makes mistakes. Give credit when credit is due and all that jazz. During Episode 2, yes I was right there displeased with the name-drop and felt it was tacky and done poorly. I believe their excuse but that still doesn’t fix the problem that still, to my knowledge, exists and needs to be fixed. However, throwing in the towel as it were and crying a fit that they’re doing this for fan service… throwing a tantrum isn’t going to do you any favors. You took something directly which was highly subjective and then feel slighted because you were mislead even if their intention was never to mislead the players. It’s not right and it’s definitely not fair, be constructive with your criticism not destructive.
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Personally, Primordos would get my vote because the thematic of fire fighting overgrowth (fauna exhales oxygen and oxygen powers fire) could make him grow larger and then become a voracious threat. To be Mord we’d turn to Prim whose thirst is only quenched by the one dragon that creates enough “fuel” to empower him. This wouldn’t mean Prim would be on our side but our role would be insignificant enough that we would go by without his notice as he withers Mord away to the point Mord hides off to “die” or hibernate. It’d be awesome to finally see how EDs react to one another as it was stated, they do not all get along – they just have the same motives.
However, at the same time I do think the Dragon child Glint protected has a role to play still. So I’m just as much skeptical over seeing Prim at that conclusion.
… free a champion of Dragon Corruption…
Glint was given free will. We don’t know that it had any other effects. Glint was after all, a dragon, so we don’t know what an uncorrupted dragon would be, if that even means anything. The forgotten ritual may not reverse any of the other (physical) changes to other minions.
I’m not so sure it gave her free will but I think it gave her empathy. She goes on to remark about how she could feel their pain after killing them and given that Champions do actually contain some degree of free will, the ability to sympathize with her victims could have persuaded her motives enough to get her to separate herself from Kral.
I’m just not seeing it. Honestly Canach struck me as a suspect since he’s been so close to Anise in this episode. But there’s not much to go off of.
With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.
I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.
~MRA
It wasn’t much of a surprise plot twist to Konig. If I remember right, he predicted the ritual would fail and Rytlock would be “put on a bus” the same day that trailer got released.
And low and behold…
It was fairly obvious that he would fail. I mean, that’s a lot of work and the game just wasn’t designed to be fully persistent. To that affect, the Dynamic Events actually proved to be holding a lot of potential back. Where that not the case (say look at City of Heroe’s Atlas Park PVP Zone) they could have altered the story. But it just seems like so much work it would require an expansion-worth of content a GW2 2.0 if you will. Would be awesome to see them pull it off, change the intro for the Charr so veteran players can have their “Well when I played…” Moments while maybe even allowing them to go into and take part in the new intro. New players would get a whole bunch of lore references to old content but also have a new experience.
Unfortunately the player story involving Zhaitan would act like a very big obstacle that I don’t really have confidence in Arenanet managing well enough.
I had cloverfield flashbacks. I wouldn’t mind running from a giant cloverfield monster. Although it would be more fun to do in DR.
Considering that, I actually like that. A dungeon gauntlet if you will, where all you’re doing is surviving by traversing obstacles to avoid being grasped by thorns and what not. Though that seems like a lot of work, so many details but then you also run the risk of mundane and repetitive mechanics being present. Telegraph here = dodge.
The dragon in the vision is the Shadow of the Dragon we fight. Notice the leaves and branches on it. It’s not Zhaitan. And woulnd’t make sense anyway, for all intends and purposes he’s dead and/or defeated.
Yeah. I think for the sake of the story Caithe made that interpretation only because the existence of Mordremoth wasn’t fully realized if at all known to anyone but the Pale Tree (even she doesn’t know the full extent of it, only that she feels its presence pushing back against the protections she puts on her children). And it can’t be argued that this was malleable lore since Mordremoth was eluded to at the start in launch.
I actually don’t think the Wyld Hunt the player witnesses is their own but a simple misinterpretation, where the Pale Tree’s life is at stake. The character and Caithe erroneously attribute the Shadow of The Dragon to be connected with Zhaitan. Very interesting none the less.
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Glint’s Baby is the chosen one.
Pretty much this.
Also, the golden city with the pillars and towers far out in the Maguuma?
Abandoned. Mursaat. City. #YouHeardItHereFirst
I’m praying that the very theory with which I first appeared on Guild Wars Guru in 2009 will finally be proven correct…
.
Yeah but I thought their invisible city was in the Isles of Janthir. Then again it was claimed to move, wasn’kitten Interesting premise. The Mursaat did pull back with a lot of knowledge so it does beg to differ what significance the rising city might pose.
I’m at a loss. It’s a lot to take in so it’s a matter of processing it all for me that’s going to take some time. “Speculators gunna speculate.” I do think when it comes to the player remarking, “We gotta group up and stand.” During the conversation following Rox’s remark is more so directed at the fact root-like thorns are growing in mass and spreading out of control (as though Iron Marches wasn’t enough).
Obviously those must be laylines triggering. From what, I don’t know – maybe some underlying connection with the Bloodstone in the Meguuma where we may find the Master of Peace. Could he be evil? “Peace can only be achieved when all is destroyed, the cycle must continue.” (This isn’t a quote from the game by any means but rather a common concept shared through many stories). I’m still not sold on the idea that MoP is evil but he is still somewhere out there, he has something in his possession and he was moving deeper into the Meguumas to where we can only assume is in the direction of the Meguuma Bloodstone.
I wonder if Mordremoth is going to use the Ley Line’s magic as a catalyst to not only grow more powerful, but create an unstable chain reaction that will wreck Tyria’s foundation. Leveling the playing field and getting rid of any opposition in one single stroke. I also have a feeling we are going to learn more about the past ancient confrontation with the Elder Dragons.
And likely the very reason why the City rises up at all, the roots from bellow grow. We haven’t seen the last of that Shadow Dragon, who I might add, might be proof that the Dragon featured in the Wyld Hunt was more so the premonition of how important the Pale Tree was and why it had to be stopped – which would mean it was a misinterpretation that the characters attributed to Zhaitan.
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Although
Trahearn does make a comment that the Pact were gearing ready to take down Kralk.
Maybe that’s likely.
I would like to see Primordus get involved with putting Mord back to sleep (“Only he can start forest fires.”) and then, if we are to see Cantha expansion first it would be nice to help the Tengu go on a hunt for their homeland.
Someone during the gathering in DR does mention White Mantle (confirming to an extent their existence as a legitimate group) where as in the player story it’s not really common knowledge. But having just started the episode, I can’t say whether there’s any correlation with the possibility of Mursaat being involved anytime soon. For the moment I’m skeptical and think it’s pulling at hairs.
And she is saying that the immunity is caused by her.
An immunity that is feeble to Mordremoth, not the other dragons. That’s where you’re taking a HUGE leap of speculation.
How can it not be any more clear?
It actually is clear but not in the way you assume. Because she relates Mordremoth’s affect on her children by using the example of Zhaitan with the Risen, where no Risen Sylvari has ever existed.
This is the next best thing to saying “through me the Dream prevents corruption, but there are those who push me away, the Soundless, whom are vulnerable to dragon corruption, especially Mordremoth whom is capable to corrupting even sylvari protected by the Dream because his power is so strong.”
She DOESN’T say THAT. If she said “especially” then yes, you would be right. But she doesn’t. Instead, the Pale Tree points out Mordremoth specifically and correlates the relationship between her children to him by comparing it to how Zhaitan uses the dead – a reference but not an accurate comparison because Risen Sylvari do not exist.
Again, I propose what significance does a Sylvari dying before corruption takes hold have? The answer is simple, they can’t be corrupted by any other than Mordremoth which she so clearly illustrates.
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You don’t seem to understand I AM NOT USING THAT CONVERSATION FOR THE SOURCE THAT THE PALE TREE PROTECTS SYLVARI FROM THE OTHER ELDER DRAGONS. Bolded so that maybe you’ll read it this time?
I’m saying there’s significance to it, the reason why she defines it specifically. I know you’re not using it, if you were you wouldn’t be holding your position because as person who takes things at face value, this would counter your entire argument.
However, despite this, you seem to fail to realize is that the Pale Tree does begin talking in regards general dragon corruption
I was the one who posted this quotes, I read them and I broke them down. There’s no failure here, I pointed out the inconsistency in the idea from the start.
She doesn’t say at that she’s protecting sylvari from Mordremoth’s corruption, but dragon corruption. From a “darkness” that intends to consume all (exactly what all Elder Dragons do). And she is in fact saying that Mordremoths’ corruption is the one Elder Dragon corruption that she cannot fully protect against.
Wrong. The Darkness has to refer to the Nightmare.
I am not making assumptions out of anything, you’re just ignoring where I’m getting my support!
Assumptions are assumptions. Just because you don’t want to admit it, doesn’t mean you aren’t openly construing them. Fact of the matter is, you are.
She uses the concept of Zhaitan’s corruption on everyone else as an analogy towards how Mordremoth is a threat to the Sylvari. This I feel is a significant point being made in such a subtle way. You can’t pick and choose what commentary to take literally or figuratively based on your belief, or lack there of, a theory; logical fallacies get us nowhere.
Humorously, I could say the same about you since you’re picking and chosing commentary by taking only partial of the whole conversation.
There is no reason why a sylvari corpse cannot be reanimated, and you ignored the second source. Allow me to quote:
While the other races may be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, turned into undead minions or crystalline creatures of the Brand, the sylvari are never turned. Those born of the Pale Tree simply die before the corruption takes hold.
And to pull from the rest of the conversation with Tegwen:
Marshal Trahearne himself had the initial idea. Once he realized that Zhaitan can’t raise sylvari, he formed this squad to exploit that weakness.
->Why doesn’t Zhaitan’s magic work on sylvari?
Unknown at present, but the Pact’s top minds are working on it. If you ask me, we’re just too new to Tyria. The Elder Dragons haven’t figured us out yet.Specifically mentioning Zhaitan’s corruption not working on sylvari.
Again, it seems that you’re picking and choosing your “commentary”.
What you have provided doesn’t prove anything however. We’ve seen a spirit exist while he mocked the fact his body was being used by Zhaitan’s will. If a Sylvari spirit is drawn back to the Dream (which would be the only explanation) under this particular example, it wouldn’t matter.
Another point is Traehern says it himself in the form of speculation. “If you ask me, we are too new.” He simply doesn’t know the answer himself. For majority of the time even those closest to the Pale Tree do not know everything that the Pale Tree does. What’s to say that he himself is certain there’s any link. The purpose of characters in a story is to give a perspective, these perspectives are not always right – they’re based on personal experiences which makes the encounter organic. There’s literally zero confirmation in anything you’ve just provided, hence you are assuming something is correct because you don’t want to believe the possibility that others argue is even probable. It would completely discredit your aim.
She is not saying that she protects the Sylvari from all corruptions, she says that she protects the Sylvari from Mordremoth’s corruption.
Exactly.
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Fun Fact: the mursaat enslaved the Asura who worked for them
Can you give a source for that? I never heard about that before.
yeah i cant find the source.. lol
Don’t know about enslaving them, but we know that the Inquest have a vested interest in Mursaat technologies and magic, as evidenced by Arah path 2. Also note that the Inquest have been every bit as much ‘the adversary’ as the Mordrem thus far. So it’s not that much a stretch to think there could be some Mursaat involvement going forward.
Not so much the Inquest but Asura in general. They breached the surface and encountered Ratasum Old (Ratasum is an anagram for Mursaat) so there was this proposed idea that the Asura discovered their technology and quickly assimilated it into their own culture. Especially in Guild Wars Beyond (a free content update that acts as a stepping stone in GW1 for preparation of GW2) where you, a Champion, help defeat the Mursaat hold in Meguuma. There’s one ( Lazarus The Dire ) still out there but we don’t know where he is.
Well, I figured Braham and Rox were an item. Maybe just mutual respect, like brother-sister (though I assumed Taimi was in the role of the sister).
Honestly I felt this was a dig at the player and not necessarily any NPC in particular. We are the motivator to get these people coming together in order to find a solution. The player is arguably the most sensible out of all even if our dialog options are horrid.
The Pale Tree confirmed being the reason why she’s protecting against Mordremoth’s corruption, and there’s protection against all Elder Dragons. Put two and two together and you get…
Wrong. Mordremoth’s corruption is specifically being pointed out just as how we learned that in Episode 1, she was corrupted by Mordremoth where as in the conclusion of Season 1 people were convinced this wasn’t the case. It’s right there, blatantly. You’re applying every Elder Dragon to him, I’m saying there would be no need to mention its name so directly if it was so simple, “I protect you from all Elder Dragons.” And then lead into a conversation about how Mordremoth is a threat based on its currently aggressive behavior. Again, this is a blind shot in the dark made by you with no evidence, just speculation. None of the sources provided Pre-Season 2 mentioned any specifics as to the why, you’re inferring erroneously that it’s because of the Pale Tree. When you meet her as a Sylvari, she practically spells it out for you in detail. She uses the concept of Zhaitan’s corruption on everyone else as an analogy towards how Mordremoth is a threat to the Sylvari. This I feel is a significant point being made in such a subtle way. You can’t pick and choose what commentary to take literally or figuratively based on your belief, or lack there of, a theory; logical fallacies get us nowhere.
Tegwen: Because sylvari are immune to the curse of undeath, we’ve been given this dangerous mission. If we fail, we won’t rise again.
Pretty much speaks for itself and doesn’t refer to any protection, just that a Sylvari cannot be resurrected after death. This may have nothing at all to do with protection from the Pale Tree, rather the literal sense that a Sylvari corpse cannot be reanimated.
The Wyld Hunt is a vision of destiny placed on the individual. Just as the player, who we know cannot be corrupted because that would defeat the whole purpose of playing the race. Why have we not seen Soundless Risen, Icebrood, or Branded if the Pale Tree’s protection was removed or subdued. Aerin didn’t use Omadd’s machine yet it’s implied he was as corrupted as Scarlet (the player remarks he sounds exactly like her) and we don’t know if the Zephyrites had a machine of equal capability, therefore it is safe to assume such a machine doesn’t exist. This would mean that all Soundless are victims and yet none of them have been made targets by other Elder Dragons for corruptions.
Keep in mind, Scarlet’s “destiny” was to learn prior to her losing her sanity. Not all Wyld Hunts involve fighting the Dragons, those select few Valiants who take it upon themselves, lead a charge with those who share and agree to the motives. But the Wyld Hunt is just that, a path one feels compelled to follow and see to its fruition.
Wyld Hunts are described by sylvari as being like an itching feeling at the back of the neck that you cannot scratch until fulfilling the Wyld Hunt.
It mentions nothing to seeing the destruction of the Elder Dragons. This is a player’s unique perspective and a ticket to get them into the game. Likewise, where I may support a particular proposition, so too might others. That doesn’t mean the destruction of EDs is universal to all Wyld Hunts. Hence my point, those very same situations you cite are unique and subjective, we don’t get a full on resume of each individual Sylvari within a group aiding us in destroying Zhaitan.
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As a bone dragon, Zhaitan would have been the logical choice. But Zhaitan is no more and we never did learn why Tequatl got a surge of power. I don’t think he really fits the profile for Mordremoth.
As silly as it was, it was because they wanted to improve the encounter and make it more difficult. That was the “why”. Throwing a lore spin on it, they explained that due to Zhaitan’s defeat the energies amplified Tequatl. My guess would be similar to how Kormir ascended at Abaddon’s defeat. As different as the gods are to the EDs, there may still be a certain unifying similarity, a law of sorts that must be abidded by.
I still like to think though Zhaitan’s death, while claimed, is more subject to ones perception. There’s so much going back and forth, I’d believe that during the next cycle millions of years from now that he’d rise back up.
To clear that misunderstanding: Defeating something means to destroy it, to negate it.
You’re misunderstanding. A player falls into a state of “DEFEAT” and by lore that doesn’t mean they’re killed nor destroyed. Stop forcing hidden meanings where they don’t need to be, at this point it’s just arguing to argue. By preventing corruption, you are defeating it and that’s exactly what the Pale Tree does for her children that are still connected to the Dream.
But as I said, we’re getting sidetracked. We were discussing the origins of the Pale Tree and how why or why not Ronan & Ventari had any influence on its growth; not how it combats corruption. You took this for a ride on your own accord.
So first of, the Pale Tree can only protect from the corruption, she can’t defeat the corruption. Otherwise she would’ve been able to save Ceara.
Protection generally, at this point that is, does defeat the corruption. Her influence just doesn’t reverse it. It prevents it from seeking root and spreading. Even as diabolical as the NC are, they themselves are still connected to the Dream and thus still under the PT’s influence. The NC is driven by an ideal, and despite the Nightmares origins or lack there of, they are still in some way kept shielded.
I disagree. I do think one practice can be used multiple times in various situations but I am far from agreeing that it is the only way.
…it’s a one-fits-all thingie. But ofcourse, we don’t know for sure before ANet allows us to capture a Son of Svanir, a Destroyer, a Sylvari fallen for Mordremoth and, just to be sure, a Branded.
Then stop treating it like absolutes.
It already cured 2 different kinds of corruption and there is no sign that it wouldn’t cure the other 4.
There’s still a lack of evidence to suggest that it couldn’t be accomplished with other means.
Noone is saying that the ritual is the only way to cure the corruption. But noone knows how it cures the corruption so noone can replicate the ritual in any way, so it’s currently the only way. And the Pale Tree is definitely not powerful enough to do so. At best, the Pale Tree can stop the corruption from spreading.
The mention of the Pale Tree has nothing to do with the topic at hand, we’re talking about origins and arguing why the PT was able to grow the way it did if it were true that the PT(s) are Mordremoth’s creations. This leads to the argument over what significance Ronan and Ventari had and whether or not they were able to influence the Tree’s growth.
I edited my post because I hit enter+tab too early. That being said wrong again, the Pale Tree did express she was able to stop the corruption of Mordremoth and through examples we see those that lose contact with the PT end up falling victim to his influence – just as she said Zhaitan can take the dead and resurrect them to do his bidding.
As stated numerous times before. Falling out of contact with the The Dream doesn’t make you corrupted by Mordremoth, so the Soundless themselves are not corrupted, but it does make them susceptible and thus far we have only seen Mordremoth accomplish this. Her influence is actually a crucial factor but if it were to address all the Dragons, why have we not seen Soundless fall victim before?
I disagree. I do think one practice can be used multiple times in various situations but I am far from agreeing that it is the only way.
…it’s a one-fits-all thingie. But ofcourse, we don’t know for sure before ANet allows us to capture a Son of Svanir, a Destroyer, a Sylvari fallen for Mordremoth and, just to be sure, a Branded.
Then stop treating it like absolutes.
It already cured 2 different kinds of corruption and there is no sign that it wouldn’t cure the other 4.
There’s still a lack of evidence to suggest that it couldn’t be accomplished with other means.
To the same affect we see Traehern use his sword which was not Forgotten origin and also managed to combat the corruption. Furthermore we’re told it was working and that Zhaitan’s influence of Orr was receding.
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I disagree. I do think one practice can be used multiple times in various situations but I am far from agreeing that it is the only way.
…it’s a one-fits-all thingie. But ofcourse, we don’t know for sure before ANet allows us to capture a Son of Svanir, a Destroyer, a Sylvari fallen for Mordremoth and, just to be sure, a Branded.
Then stop treating it like absolutes.
Each Elder Dragon seems to corrupt – when doing so directly – differently.
This is where I kitten my head and raise a brow. You say that dragons corrupt differently and yet have gone on to assume that there is only way to free a champion of Dragon Corruption based on the lore over Glint. But if each corrupts differently, then there must be various means to tackle said obstacle.
I think you missed the point that corrupting differently is not equal to differnt types of corruption. Think of the corruption as a disease: You can get infected through the air, through skin contact or droplets. That however doesn’t mean that it’s a different disease all the time, thus the way to cure the disease could be the same.
The corruption is (magical) energy which gets injected into the body. The appearance of the body changes and the being loses the control over its body because of it. There are different ways to inject this energy into the body but the ritual could be a way to cure the body from any possessive energy.
To the same credit, you don’t cure influenza with vaccines of small pox. Better yet, you wouldn’t cure ebola with a flu-shot.
The corruption is (magical) energy which gets injected into the body. The appearance of the body changes and the being loses the control over its body because of it. There are different ways to inject this energy into the body but the ritual could be a way to cure the body from any possessive energy.
There isn’t a guide line, that’s my point. We’re assuming a law is fact simply because, not only do we not know the specifics of PT’s interaction during its “incubation period” but we’re using Glint which by all intense and purposes, dragon corruption works differently. Breaking Kral’s hold one way may not provide the same results if used on a subject of Jormag. It’s a logical fallacy.
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The flaw here is that they don’t wake up at the same time.
As for attacking each other, well we haven’t really seen it. In the past I have said beings can’t be corrupted by multiple dragons and just because we don’t see them fighting doesn’t mean they don’t. However at the same time, the only statement we have had was that Dragons don’t necessarily have an allegiance to one another. From what we can tell to what we can explore, is that they do respect each others territory. They are however working in tandem for a similar goal (reshaping Tyria).
Each Elder Dragon seems to corrupt – when doing so directly – differently.
This is where I kitten my head and raise a brow. You say that dragons corrupt differently and yet have gone on to assume that there is only way to free a champion of Dragon Corruption based on the lore over Glint. But if each corrupts differently, then there must be various means to tackle said obstacle. Glint was a unique situation because Kral’s corruption doesn’t necessarily work like Jor, Prim, Zhai, etc. We do not know whether this was the only way further making the idea that the PT imprinted upon Ventari’s tablet, quite plausible. Maybe that’s not what happened but we do know the PT had even respect on Ventari specifically that it either pulled his soul or created a mirror copy – I’m inclined to believe the later – into The Dream.
To me that’s very telling that corruption, not only does work in different ways as you say, but also can be conquered in different ways. Meaning that there isn’t just one solution.
And Glint was not fighting Kralkatorrik’s corruption but Kralkatorrik itself, whereas the Pale Tree is fighting all Elder Dragons and their corruption – Mordremoth is just the biggest threat to sylvari.
As far as what can be told, that is false. Look back at her conversation, she stated Mordremoth specifically and doesn’t speak about the other dragons. There is no measure of dialog referring to the other EDs. You are taking a large leap in trying to conjure that point of argument. Why would Anet, who you claim in another topic as implying certain circumstances, not just explain that “Hey, I protect sylvari from Dragon Corruption.”
No, she says, “I protect you from Mordremoth’s corruption.” You can make up whatever excuse but this one is a blind shot in the dark.
Well, my child, one thing you must never forget is that I stand between you and the greatest darkness you’ll ever know. A vast darkness intent on consuming all that we hold dear.
The bolded part I feel is significant. I think this is Anet telling the Sylvari player that this one such threat is not all EDs but later leads into:
When asked about Dragon Corruption:
Yes. In the past my children had been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created undead from so many creatures, so can Mordremoth’s corruption change you.
This is the only time she mentions another dragon, Zhaitan, in which she’s drawing a comparison. Keep in mind this is a conversation with a Sylvari player. This comparison is nothing more than relaying the experience the player had witnessed half way through the personal story and on to Orr. Sylvari Risen do not exist and she doesn’t say anything about how her protection wards off all dragon corruption – she states instead that Mordremoth has significant domain over her people and she is protecting them from it.
You told me once in an older topic that you take what NPCs say (Kudu for example) but then you quickly have dismissed many people coming to post this same realization. As if taking it figuratively. To me, I see she’s specifically orienting her dialog on Mordremoth and not the other Elder Dragons. Otherwise there would have been no need to mention Mordremoth in the way she had done. Yes Mordremoth is the current threat but you’ve said yourself that the seriousness of Mordremoth is highly subjective in that, which we both agreed, he’s only been more aggressive and not the stronger of the EDs. She’s regarding him as a serious threat to them, which a non-Sylvari player do not get out of her dialog with her.
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