Guild Wars 2

Erukk.1408:

Instead of trying to shoehorn the Six and the Elder Dragons together, I would be more inclined to believe that the Six got their “godliness” by taking the powers of the Elder Dragon equivalents from their previous world.

Haha read my post above. Peeps on Guru thought exactly that when GW:EN first came out. That speculation has died down due to the loop hole of the Dragons being older than the god’s arrival to Tyria.

But I agree, at this point it’s grasping for answers in the wrong areas. I’ve yet to accept the relationship of the gods and EDs as a probable theory. Just as how Realm of Torment was practically shot down in this episode but people were really honing in for it. There’s a lot more left to uncover, that’s for certain.

Chrispy.5641:

Other things to note….if your so intent on comparing the gods to the dragons, then you should read this page from the GW1 wiki (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Path_to_Revelations) which basically equates certain aspects of the gods with dragons (you also face 6 of these in the Dragon’s Lair mission). It also suggests that Anet was planning something similar to these Ley Lines for years before the living story, and that intersections of the Ley lines could be areas where you can enter the Mists.

For a while it was widely speculated on GWGuru that the gods merely borrowed their power which originated from the dragons. However the Dragons, as far as we can tell, have been native to Tyria and are older than the Gods themselves. I believed at one point that same mission in GW1 was meant to “hint” at something (all of Eye of The North was claimed to reference what was to happen in GW2, give ideas) but I figure a lot of ideas were scrapped.

That usually happens too. Throughout the development process, things are switched around and changed as time goes on. IE: Arah EXP were might have seen Zhaitan’s spirit but that whole portion was removed – it was based on a conscious decision.

My guess is it’ll stay the same and interest will shift focus into other stuff for the next map.

Hard to consider it sloppy when during Gates of Meguuma folks could get into the Centaur camp. Low and behold it was in the next section of the map. I like knowing there’s more ahead. Hopefully the next section is bigger than Entangle was which itself was about two-times larger than GoM!

Rurik, RIP. 12345

Palador.2170:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Crixler.2857:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Mordrem_Wolf.jpg
That is a dead dog that has had plants attached to its nervous system. The dog itself is not corrupted, however, and is merely being used as a puppet by the plants on its back, so it’s kind of a gray area, really.

Pretty sure it’s still a fern hound, rather than a normal wolf. It fits in with the Husks, keeping Mordremoth’s minions as being similar-yet-different to Nightmare Court critters.

In the first part of the story, we briefly encounter some “Overgrown Wolf” creatures. What if that’s just the early stage of the corruption of a normal wolf. The vines grow INTO the creature, feeding from and eventually replacing the flesh. When it’s progressed far enough, the plants “bloom”, and you get the Mordrem Wolf. By this point it’s possible that the plants are acting as a life support system for what’s left of the wolf, which would be delightfully horrific.

Maybe it’s just the result of Mord, now actively awake, jump starting the corruption so you’re seeing the products of what is considered natural life evolving into something grotesque.

It’s like going back to Guild Wars 1 which was the thing I didn’t like about the personal story in GW2 – in that they did away with their method of story telling from GW1. Now it’s like they’ve gone back to the their roots so hopefully come any expansion, we wont see that clumsy stillframe in the background and only two characters on the screen at any given time :P

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

The central Orb represents Light……

The central orb represents Tyria, not light. It also bears resemblance to an Armillary Sphere

See Here

I’m thinking it’s a magical artifact, so we could end up seeing it later.

Zaxares.5419:

Ronin.7381:

narwhalsbend.7059:

BrunoBRS.5178:

narwhalsbend.7059:

BrunoBRS.5178:

we got through two continents before we saw the tarnished coast and far shiverpeaks in GW1. i’m willing to miss some tyrian regions for some more years in favor of cantha :P

I don’t need EotN parts, just all the Prophecies areas.
Don’t YOU want to know if the statue of the female warrior in the Crystal Desert is standing or not? Huh? Is it not killing you inside?

prophecies is the one campaign i never played well, i played the first couple missions on a trial, got past the searing, did like one or two missions (didn’t even realize henchies were a thing, so i was soloing the kitten out of those charrs), and ran out of time.

when i actually bought the game, i bought factions, then EotN, then nightfall. then GW2 came out.

Prophecies was the best though.

Agreed. The amount of intrigue and not just your typical, “Nice guy turns out to betray you.” was very enjoyable and unique.

Are we forgetting about a certain Vizier? Or the White Mantle?

No, what I’m saying is it wasn’t that simple.

Iarkrad.8415:

Its been well implied that only Soundless Sylvari are exceptionally vulnerable to Mordrem corruption.

Here’s to hoping in Episode 3 The Avatar of The Pale Tree gives us more information onto how this all comes together.

narwhalsbend.7059:

BrunoBRS.5178:

narwhalsbend.7059:

BrunoBRS.5178:

we got through two continents before we saw the tarnished coast and far shiverpeaks in GW1. i’m willing to miss some tyrian regions for some more years in favor of cantha :P

I don’t need EotN parts, just all the Prophecies areas.
Don’t YOU want to know if the statue of the female warrior in the Crystal Desert is standing or not? Huh? Is it not killing you inside?

prophecies is the one campaign i never played well, i played the first couple missions on a trial, got past the searing, did like one or two missions (didn’t even realize henchies were a thing, so i was soloing the kitten out of those charrs), and ran out of time.

when i actually bought the game, i bought factions, then EotN, then nightfall. then GW2 came out.

Prophecies was the best though.

Agreed. The amount of intrigue and not just your typical, “Nice guy turns out to betray you.” was very enjoyable and unique.

The fact people keep slipping through the current map and finding new locals where there are clearly things present is amazing at how much they really have learned from Season 1. Granted hopefully in Season 3 we don’t open up maps in sections – rather get multiple maps every other episode or such. But it’s nice looking at how they’re working on expanding the Tyrian map rather than just revisiting old areas and creating temporary new ones.

Feels like another Mass Effect 1 reference. On Noveria suspicions arose when a Matriarch was roaming through carrying vast amount of supplies. Turned out those supplies were housing geth. While it’s not exactly the same we do see scattered parts, a Sylvari (Scarlet) was said to have been through there and mentions of mechanical beasts (Steam creatures) plus some of their remains.

I’m willing to let myself assume Scarlet moved the equipment there once she realized a Ley Line hub was somewhere deep within. Her visit to Prosperity could have likely been just after she killed Omadd and wanted to learn more, prior to amassing the forces necessary which would later be used to sack Lion’s Arch.

Anybody on the look out for the other areas where Vines were predicted to be via the use of render-times? New update today makes me suspicious… in a good way. Keep eyes open for Gandarran Fields if none have appeared thus far.

narwhalsbend.7059:

I found that too, but it’s currently empty. I am curious what the vine-chamber will be.

Meguuma Falls, here we come!

soakman.7539:

Can we never use the term “Mary Sue” again? There is nothing Mary Sue about the Pale Tree(s) being Mord’s minions… is it particularly creative? No. But it’s not “Mary Sue.”

What I said was that the Sylvari being “the center of it all as the embodiment of Tyria.” is “Mary Sue”. While being minions of Mord is cliche but still works comfortably. It’d be really stupid to see Sylvari helping Jormag, Primordus, Kral, and Bubb down the road – I’d rather investigate the cultures that these dragons are attacking.

Zhaitan was a unique experience because he was the only Elder Dragon we fought so of course the Sylvari needed some ploy to get them involved. But Prim is supposedly hitting Dominion of The Winds the hardest – you have a giant tooth in Hoelbrak which if broken means Jormag’s end is imminent by the one who broke it. Kral could see the Zephyrites recovering from the Meguumas and uniting to stop him, and there’s no telling where Bubbles is at right now.

This is why the Soundless and Scarlet (who turned her back on the Dream) have both fallen prey to Mord. Addtionally, it’s an awfully convenient way to explain why the PC sylvari won’t be corrupted.

The Soundless are non-violent by nature. All that the disconnect of the Dream means is that they are susceptible to corruption. Until we see additional clans or groups of Soundless that are suddenly running around and creating havoc, we can’t say with certainty that the Soundless are agents. Aerin was an isolated case, we don’t know what happened on that ship.

PopeUrban.2578:

Think about it, why would an entity that can crush its enemies from the very earth bother with such a convoluted scheme? He’s obviously more than capable of conjuring all manner of perfectly good minions without a secondary 20-year gestation vector.

Maybe Mord had to resort to creating new forces because the Pale Tree(s) were not answering his call when they should have.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Ronin.7381:

narwhalsbend.7059:

So who is Saren then?

Scarlet was Saren :P

I’m thinking Master of Peace.

He’s too greatful for your assistance. I think people are wrongfully accusing him as being a villain personally. So far we don’t have his MO but he is still out there so we’re likely to bump into him again.

PopeUrban.2578:

There are no original ideas, just well concealed plagarism

If it fits the story, there’s nothing wrong with that. :P

PopeUrban.2578:

The tree (and those like it) came from a seed. A better question is where the seed came from.

Putting my bets on Mord.

His “Keepers” that simply didn’t answer the call which would mean that Mord woke up late rather than what was assumed to be 7 years early.

PopeUrban.2578:

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

It’s entirely possible that the tree didn’t actually KNOW this information, but rather that the dragons are a threat to her personally (being a thing full of magic)

Episode 3 should shine some light on the subject, assuming we get that audience and get to ask her about it.

Eh, I don’t like that. I’m much more confident and ok with the Pale Tree(s) being seeds of Mordremoth who simply didn’t answer the call than to find out that the Sylvari are center of Tyria as a whole. It sounds redundant and way more mary sue-ish than the cliche theory being that the Pale Tree(s) are champions and Mord’s children.

But we’re likely to gather quite a bit of information come Episode 3 surely. I just really hope that’s not the case. The Sylvari are the poster child for ANet, they wanted something different than the typical elves, trolls, and gnomes so they came up with the Asura, Charr, and Sylvari. I just don’t want to see the Sylvari constantly center stage at every single Season plot. Part of the reason why I’m rooting for the Champion theory is that hopefully when we go off to fight Prim, Jorm, Kral, and Bubb that we wont have to deal with Sylvari taking the ultimate hero.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I think that’s just a representation of a world seen by the eyes of someone who can see the Eternal Alchemy.

6 domains around a a central ‘core’ or ‘heart’.

That and we’ve only mapped out RoT in totality. It could just as easily be assumed that every single realm has the same structure thus, the Eternal Alchemy represents the design as being the mists in its infinite glory. Copying the same map scheme to represent all levels of realms. Onions have layers….

I don’t advocate to Realm of Torment playing much of a part in GW2 lore, at least not regarding Mord. This is just grasping at straws at this point.

narwhalsbend.7059:

So who is Saren then?

Scarlet was Saren :P

If I were Taimi, I’d be kittened.

RedStar.4218:

But we didn’t see the same thing as her. We didn’t see a thorny vine strangling the Pale Tree, nor did we see new Sylvari being born and others withering.

There’s probably more to that vision we will uncover later if we are to visit it again. Just like how when Shepard first interacted with the Prothean Beacon, he needed a cipher to decrypt the rest. The Pale Tree may even have a role to play in a part of it.

Jski.6180:

So maybe we are mixing things up if the rotating is them being awalk then why would smashing into the world be them awaking agen? I belive the full green is zhaitan and his smashing into the center orb is representative of his death the gray green must be morde becoming full active. I think what happning is zhaitan power is or has become one with the pail tree or terya (not sure how you spell it.)

Zhaitan isn’t falling into the center. Look at the scene. The dark green globe falls in, it spreads, we zoom in towards it like it’s the eye of Sauran spotting us, and then you hear the same rumble of a growl we heard during the conclusion of Season 1. The globe that fell in the center is Mord – Zhaitan’s globe remains “inactive” on the outside because we put him back to sleep while the others wait their turn.

Civilis.2547:

Bonus points for Zone Blue still being under construction. If that ever changes…

It wont because Crucible Of Eternity self destructs. But yes, they also spoke of having a specimen for Blue-Zone which was deemed very “large” and Inquest weren’t sure if they had enough space for it. Considering Kudu’s Monster and the Jotun in EXP, it would have to be fairly big if they weren’t confident in containing it for long.

That’s my guess. They’re doing really well which shows promise for future content. Rooting for the Fire Islands, Crystal Desert, Blood Legion, and Janthir Islands!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

What I want to know is why, as the ‘boss’, I’m reporting to a freaking child. Asura she may be, but child she remains. She should not be calling the shots.

Being an Asura is kind of a big deal. As soon as they can talk after birth, they’re practically smarter than the average human. :P

Vines are growing in mass, strangling innocent lives, and converging all around you. You’re worried about a race who practically opens its doors for you so that you may pass through and survive? I figure that would be the least of my concerns at that point….

That being said, you can actually ask them why they’re being kind and they’ll tell you.

ThiBash.5634:

Then again, Trahearne is a bigger threat and has a jummy magic sword to eat.

Well I am kind of putting my money on Trah in this regard because we are going over to the Grove in Episode 3 (if not maybe 4 depending on how fast Kas can get “permission”) so it might segway Trah in.

I’m interested in seeing how that will play out though. His Wyld Hunt ended in Orr, vanquishing the Risen and rebuilding it. However, being the lead of the Pact, the guild that defeated Zhaitan, still makes him a primary target. Honestly, I don’t think his sword will do jack against Mord – it’s a sword of life and nature-bound itself. That sword might just be a target but it’s way too early to tell for certain.

We still have the Master of Peace out there somewhere!

Four-wheel drive stumps two-wheel all the time.

BrunoBRS.5178:

that line up there is the only, the only, reference to a possible sixth dragon until living story.

That’s not necessarily true. As Crucible of Eternity implies that each section was designated for each specific Dragon. While inside you can even encounter excerpts of them talking about having a water-like specimen from an unnamed “Bubbles”.

However, with that said… nowhere but a skill name was Mordremoth’s name dropped. I was almost certain in Scarlet’s room that his name was mentioned but after completing the story you can’t go back into her room to re-read the NPC dialog.

Honestly, I consider this a huge leap of faithe. Me, I’m not on-board.

In completing the story, Taimi says that she has collaborated the tech behind the Asuran Waypoints so that Mord can’t use them anymore which would make them “unappealing”. So I think this is where the other lines depicted by observers last week come into play, the WPs currently occupied by Vines may vanish and then new vines appear in the other zones (Gandarren, Frostgorge, Fire Heart, Iron Marches, etc).

So in short WPs don’t seem to be going away anytime soon.

Vol.7601:

Well we never saw it’s corpse soooooo I eagerly await the next time Trahearne takes credit for everything.

Assuming he doesn’t get killed by Mord this season…

Well according to a lot of developer commentary in Q&As, Zhaitan’s story was complete. Though Arah EXP was supposed to see him in “some form or another” but over all this was scrapped because of… reasons. So they left the ending ambiguous and pretty much set that there is a body out there somewhere but we wont be visiting it.

That being said, I want to believe that yes, Zhaitan is alive at least in an ethereal form and likely back to hibernating. EDs were described as forces of nature so I do not think, falling to their doom is necessarily the end. Come next cycle he may rise again… theoretically speaking.

I think the cutscene was nothing more than a depiction of balance, that every Dragon has a role to play in renovating Tyria every cycle. And I do agree with WoodPotatoes where he thinks that they kind of compete although it didn’t really seem like Zhaitan was as connected to the Ley Lines like Mord.

Interesting note though that if the signals are meant to be interpreted as the pattern in which they awake, this also suggests that the Pale Tree was actively working to prevent Mord from awakening. This would mean he’s late and not 7 years early.

Jordo.5913:

On the other hand, the biggest reason I think Zhaitan is alive, is that if the orbs do represent the Elder Dragons, and if them lighting up show them awakening, shouldn’t they unlight if the dragon is killed? But, Zhaitan’s was lit, and still floating about as if he hasn’t been killed.

That’s my thought as well. Upon defeat, a dragon’s spirit goes back into its dormant state and then during the next cycle they are reincarnated in some form or another. It just doesn’t seem very plausible that the era in which we play some how manages to kill one despite races prior (Mursaat, Forgotten, Seers, etc) who were immensely powerful couldn’t have stopped them. So I think that corporeal-death is not the end of a dragon.

If they flesh out his character more, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing him back.

Thobek.1730:

I didn’t like the fact you’re character says “I saw everything, the dragons… etc” I don’t remember seeing any dragons. I guess those orbs maybe represented dragons but if that’s the case my character is jumping to conclusions.

Taimi – What did you see?
You – Dragons.. (ah no you didn’t you saw 6 globes rotating around a world you suspect is Tyria)

Its a very nice scene but I don’t buy my characters description of it.

I think your character arrives to that conclusion when one of the orbs ceases the center, looks at you, charges, and then you hear that low rumbling growl. With that it can be assumed the other orbs represented entities themselves – the other dragons. While it’s a wide guess on our characters part, it still is sound. We’re meant to be very intuitive – not intuitive enough to know Mordremoth’s name at the top of our head but… we’re not bricks.

See I thought based on the screen shot and video trailer that maybe this was Mord developing itself into a corporeal form. But I think that would be pushing it. The rock is some kind of rare material, it’s why we have weapons of it so it’s interesting enough. I just have since decided to stop hanging on that idea that it’s a body.

RedSpectrum.1975:

I can see it now, new shout for charr warriors: Aaaahhhhhhh,aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh,aaaaaaaAAAAAAAHHHHHH,AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

10 minutes of screaming before Zerg rushing Taquatl, make it happen.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

There is not a shred of evidence in GW that Centaur and Kournan were allies, in any form.

What she had written down was that the Centaurs had no idea they were enslaved until they were practically in chains. Promises of prosperity and a strong nation, Kourna was arguably the strongest force in Elona both military and agriculturally. Istan had the navy, Kourna had the army and much of the land – not to mention heritage (Turai Ossa). That being said, the journal implies the Centaurs were bated and she’s reflecting at how they followed when all that it lead to was their enslavement. They weren’t freed until the Champions arrived, with the help of Zhed, to free them – and of course Kourna toppled over itself.

We’re the player, if we were doomed to die in the conclusion of Season 2 as a result of our insanity – well there’d be no point after. That would have been interesting for the games finale if/when they shut it down though.

I think it’s a case of we are exceptional at what we do. Convicted and determined, unlike Scarlet who had little reason to caution herself, we knew the dangers. There’s also that Commander Shepard moment where we tried to save Taimi and in doing so threw ourselves in the way.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the order of their awakening honestly, more so it was random with Mord signifying as a serious threat for the present time.

Personally, I thought her death fell pretty flat. It was nothing like Prince Rurick who you spent the majority of your time at the beginning, a good ten percent of the game, aiding and joining – only to watch him sacrifice himself so that you and the other Champions could get his people to safety in Kryta. Belinda’s death just wasn’t that impacting, she was hardly an established character and I do kind of wish that we got more episodes with her before “offing” her.

Ronin.7381:

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Zhaitan’s Champion was getting stronger with Zhaitan’s death so his power is likely going to the strongest minion available…..

There’s that too, reincarnation. So a dragon’s influence cannot be completely destroyed but then again, if we take Tequatl’s death by a large group of players as canon, this poses the question: where does that energy go from there? Taking us right back to Square 1 – the Eternal Alchemy.

Which in turn is similar to the way God-ship works. In that with Abaddon’s destruction, Kormir ascended. Mallyx gained power but also soon fell so more energy went to her. Because energy can’t be destroyed, were Kormir to be destroyed by a lunatic we could in theory have a Abaddon 2.0.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Zhaitan’s Champion was getting stronger with Zhaitan’s death so his power is likely going to the strongest minion available…..

There’s that too, reincarnation. So a dragon’s influence cannot be completely destroyed but then again, if we take Tequatl’s death by a large group of players as canon, this poses the question: where does that energy go from there? Taking us right back to Square 1 – the Eternal Alchemy.

Ooo then this would mean Jennah could likely see her death. Although I think that’s a stretch so I’m not on board at this point.

That and I would like a lot of drama/intrigue when it comes to entering Cantha. I want us to be at the heart of an uprising and helping Kurzick and Luxon decedents regain their Sovereignty. Not Bubbles.

onemantankwall.3641:

Ok i got it for sure now,

i see something! I saw it!!! I see her mind!!! (Pale tree) do not question the dream, we must all play our parts. meaning we REALLY shouldnt be killing the eds off its like polluting nature in the end everything dies

See this also makes me want to believe Zhaitan isn’t dead. Now the Devs aren’t likely to revisit him but I do believe that the EDs are a fundamental force of change. Their mission in the Eternal Alchemy is to arise when the world of Tyria reaches an epoche and restart the world by inflicting chaos. Similar to say the events in past catastrophes such as Mt. Saint Helens, where decades later life has been returning to Crater Lake. In reservations there’s a practice called Controlled Burning, where people burn away grass and trees in order to get rid of certain species which allows new species to grow.

It caters to the belief that the Mists are matter and matter cannot be destroyed. If the EDs are manifestations of this energy (think Razah) then they cannot truly die spirit wise, they simply go back to the Eternal Alchemy and recover. Which would be an interesting premise, that’s just what I think.

Back in GW1 a lot of people used to call the Mists the Fires of Creation, a furnace where life starts in the ethereal form and gains awareness thus leading to growing into an entity. By this theory, the EDs wouldn’t be totally killed off through battle. They would be important in maintaining balance.

lakdav.3694:

Too bad the book has false information. Centaurs were not allied to Kourna. They were enslaved.

What she’s saying is in order to draw them in, you entice them with an idea. The end result was their freedom being stripped away likely before most of them had any idea and was too late. But then again it’s told through first hand knowledge, she wrote with hubris.

SSJ7 confirmed.

onemantankwall.3641:

Ronin.7381:

onemantankwall.3641:

onemantankwall.3641:

Can anyone fully make out ALL of the voices? Or did no one notice them? :P
I saw it, a single mind! (couldnt catch what was said after), do not question the dream we must all plan our paths. There was also talking in the very beginning but i cant make it out

I see sonething, i saw it!!! The one mind!!!! Don’t question the dream

I caught every bit of it this time

It could also be referencing that all Pale Trees themselves act as a hive mind and at the center of it is Mord trying ensnare his way back in control, seeing as the Pale Tree(s) fell out of his influence.

Noooo i was wrong it says, i see HER mind meaning either scarlet or the pale tree

Someone did suggest though too and I’m inclined to believe, that the machine was designed for Sylvari’s physiology, which would mean we are following in Scarlet’s foot steps and seeing what she was seeing. That could be a reference to the “one-mind” mantra.

That actually has a lot of merit to it though. Even in war sometimes we reference the past. The Germans for example in WWI made the same mistake Nipolean did via Russia’s “scorched earth” tactic. We often look back at past wars and try to draw inspiration for new tactics.

Not to mention, Varesh was an accomplished and talented Tactician. I actually liked this part where it kind of relayed her scheming potential. As far as players were concerned in Nightfall, she was just some woman being directed by Abaddon’s Lieutenant in Kourna who lead an army in order to defend itself against the Instani assault. She loved Kourna so much though and she died with it and years before Palawa would finish the job.

Qiraa.4130:

was so sorry for Marjory, here is me expressing my sorrow

“I’m so excited, I just can’t hide it. I’m about to lose control and I think I like it!”