Guild Wars 2

SlothBear.9846:

People went to SoR looking for mega blob easy mode. Can’t really fault the logic, in mid-2013 SoR was either the most organized or most blobby server depending on what spin you want to put on it. Anyways, they didn’t find the log-on-and-win success they were looking for because other servers had adapted to the PPT game and SoR didn’t (whether intentionally or because they’re terrible, or it was just lack of morale from selling out and trying to buddy up with BG during league and still not managing to place I’ll leave to the various trolls to debate). So all the transfers left and the ppt plummeted. Some were holding out expecting easy mode in t2. Turns out most tier 2 servers are overall better in open field fights with similar numbers than tier 1 servers, as anyone who played during league knows. SoR got crushed a lot. The people who thought tier 2 would bring easy mode left. Server continues to fall.

The glicko system made it look like a sudden thing, but really it wasn’t. It just took weeks and weeks for SoR to actually lose the points to drop to tier 2. Their decline was more gradual and has been going on awhile ppt wise at least. Once they actually got to t2 the glicko scores accelerated and now they are going to find their natural place a lot sooner.

I think the real SoR people never had much of a problem being lower tier and I don’t think this drop is going to bother them at all really, especially since from the sound of things that people that made that community toxic are all some other server’s problem now. The blobbers will continue to blob and whine elsewhere, the loyal SoR players will keep fighting for SoR no matter where it is. So WvW goes.

You’re from JQ, talking about people transfering to SoR for mega blob easy mode? JQ has been the longest standing “transfer to mega blob east mode”. Have you checked your server status lately? Your server is currently Full. SoR was never anywhere near that.

And what SoR players are keeping on fighting for SoR? Have you seen the PPT lately? If the best of the best are still there making the SoR server proud then they’re doing a kitten poor job of it. Fact is here’s no one left because any and all SoR WvW’rs have gone off to be competitive elsewhere (a few to go megablob on JQ with you).

The loyal SoR players are still in the game, but they’re not fighting on SoR anymore.

Hit the field with the right build.
Take the time to learn how to play it, and don’t be disheartened by failures.
Hit youtube to watch actual fights and learn how to survive, and beat thieves.

As a Mesmer you have everything you need to overcome a thief.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmfdj4KucfE

I recently pulled out a pistol for an encounter with a particular perplexity thief, which was the first time I’d used pistol since sometime after release. Over all this time I ran scepter/torch + staff initially, then changed to scepter/torch + sword/focus. So it was quite rare, and almost a little random. Right tool for the job is all I can say (thanks to iWarden being broken, cheers Anet).

calavel.6249:

Renny.6571:

Idk what you’re talking about greatsword being defensive and useless in melee. The only skill affected by range is the auto attack. Mirror Blade is BETTER in melee because it’ll bounce 2 more times, dealing unblockable damage and give you 6 might. Mind Stab is a targeted damage+boon strip. iZerker will more reliably hit a target if they’re staying in melee and iWave is a melee range knockback. Where’s the defense? It’s a kittening awesome weapon.

Okay you’re right, the GS does actually do a reasonable amount of damage in melee… did they buff its AA? I haven’t used it in ages. I’m having trouble with MS because the AoE is so small. Target tends to be out of range when the skill actually hits. Only time it seems reliable is if the enemy is rooted or engaging me in melee (but that was your point I suppose). How reliable is iZerker on a runner? Isn’t he rather easy to see coming and dodge? Unblockable is nice though… also, will closing with the enemy not be a problem for the iZerker depending on range?

Couple tricks for casting phantasms. Yes the iZerker cast is very easy to see coming. Since so many Mesmers run GS, and its AA is so obvious, everyone should be expecting the iZerker to come out, and before he does the Mesmer thrusts his GS straight into the air. Casting from stealth cloaks your actions, and there’s very little time to react if you cant see his casting.

Gap closing is the more interesting query. I remember someone once tried to argue that Blink should be replaced with rocket boots mechanics and functionality, and that it was far superior to blink as a utility. The thing about Blink though is that it can be cast while channeling. This includes the casting of phantasms, and while healing. This loads up a ton of possibilities for both chasing and opening.

calavel.6249:

I’ve been trying out the MoR/centaur thing and it works really well, especially combined with Mender’s Purity. I generally don’t need to worry about swiftness, and I can remove cripple/immob and replace it with swiftness almost whenever I want. Amazing tool for when someone tries to lock you down with condition CC.

The biggest problem so far is managing the charges in combat so I’m not stuck channeling when trying to chase. And of course I have rather low healing in general, but I really feel that MP makes a huge difference here.

Stealth is your best friend for mantra recharges.

I hate PU Mesmers because I always hear people complaining about PU Mesmers, so naturally I hate on, and complain about them too. Any time I see a Mesmer use stealth I know he’s running PU, and since there are conditions on me he’s got to be some sort of bunker condition guy. What’s crazy is how his sword 2 hits for like 5k damage on top of that. It’s insane! I just dont get how they can have it all and get away with it! Unbeatable, and no one should have to put in that much effort to overcome something that’s so cheezy eazy.

Someone once posted this in regards to Warriors, but I think the devs have been buffing mesmers so much since launch that now the warrior blood has flowed right into Mesmers. Like a Dev blood transfusion or something.

Curtain interrupts are much harder than they used to be now you have the cd between placement and pull, but keep in mind that when chasing you’re going to see a few obvious actions. Warrior warhorn for swiftness, warrior elite, all classes tend to use heals while fleeing since they’re in trouble anyway, mesmers mass invis, just for a few examples. If you’re seeing them flee, and you’re reacting with a chase, the placing the curtain will already be on your list of things to counter with, so you’re likely to catch an interrupt when going for your pull.
Keep in mind that focus also brings an internal condi cleanse to your kitten nal (cast iWarden, drop curtain on top of him while spinning).

Where curtain really shines is that it’s an AoE pull, and in a XvX situation, you’re always very likely to just catch something at random. However, adding condition duration to CI makes it far more worth it as those cc condi’s really start to pressure your targets.

Mantra of distraction is by far the single best interupt we have, and yes it’s worth taking if you’re going the interrupt route. I don’t like interrupt builds, but when I have played with interupting I LOVED mantra of distraction (and I don’t like mantras, though this is manageable).

For Dom: If taking interrupts Mental Torment or Halting Strike. For bursting you’ll be using your mind wrack, otherwise if interupting Halting Strike will only add to your damage.

Shattered Concentration is a powerful trait but I personally feel its best place is in a structured tPvP arena. If you and your buddies are going to form some amazing group synergy, then by all means it might cover a base. Otherwise you might take something else. Having said that, I usually think of Domination in terms of using GS or Torch, and I take Torch cd for Master. Seeing as you don’t have those as an option, maybe you’re right on the money to take Shattered Concentration. OR, you could be freeing yourself up 10 points right there which could go into any of the other lines.

Taking a step back, perhaps you’re putting to much into boon stripping to counter runners. Most roamers, and those in a position to flee, aren’t going to be successful off swiftness. They’ll have runes, sigils, or traits that grant at least +25% movement speed, coupled with blinks, and mobility skills. So your enemy isnt swiftness. Stability, yes, protection maybe, but you can usually wait those two out (or you have arcane thievery). Boon stripping via shatters is going to pressure the sustain of people who want to hang around, more than counter those who’re looking to run away.

Here’s a warrior without swiftness-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8wtucvZJs
He’d need knockdown, interrupt, dazes, etc to counter

Here’s me using swiftness, but blinks, misdirection, and boon stealing/stripping (not boons generally speaking) that won the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZ6UgA_MUo

Renny.6571:

Yes, you said that. And I said it’s better than an invuln.

And completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. So saying its “better” is pointless here…

grave of hearts.7830:

Well there was that one hint that sor was bound to implode considering a large portion of it was bandwagoneers.
Sure the political attitude was a major factor but when you see things from my point of view where half the sor tags were ex sos guilds that transfered because they wanted to win then it comes to no surprise to see discord tearing things apart.
I do have a large popcorn bag for when it happens to bg,that one will be far more interesting to analyze considering the server is stuck on full status.

Only it didnt implode. The “server” SoR is a location that can be filled or emptied. The Rallian’s that resided there, most of the dedicated WvW’rs that is, have simply migrated and taken their game with them. The community is still alive and kicking.

You sound sore.

The other option is chaotic interuption since you have interupts on both weapon sets
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa8dlwzipXTzoGa9IipHEnvJckUUasWJF22FC-jkCBYLFRjmAJQEJhOBqIasVwht6KIlXRTXDTVSpW5KQCBIaCA-w

Here’s another approach. Boon duration runes will give you 18s swiftness from curtain on a traited 20s cooldown.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa8dlwzipXTzoGaNJipCE3JFQ3yRSRpxalUYbXIA-jkCBYLFRjmAJQEJhOBqIasVwht6KIlXRTXDTVSpW5KQCBIaCA-w

I also added hydro runes on weapon swap. In my build I emphasize condition duration for controll. So cripple is ok, but curtain pulls + iLeap + chill + long range blink on low cd + high swiftness is a killer combo. So you’re on the right track. Arcane thievery is also the perfect tool because it denies swiftness to the enemy and grants it to you. It also becomes a source of fury, and with warriors, rangers, and everybody else spamming it on demand, it’s as though you have it as such too.

Here’s my build
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Holy-Hell-Build-s-solo-zerg/first#post3589756

An example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tffTmVN-zG0
Weapon swap post blink for hydro chill would have added to the combo’s.

Blink to curtain, cripple, pull
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8td7XyA1JU&feature=player_detailpage#t=1120
Best part is this pulls them right into range of your allies so they can start chain cc’ing (unlike a magic bullet stun).

This is an oldie but a goody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N78IbC9uO1U
Back when I first started maximizing my mobility. Loads of mistakes made and things I could have done better, but still displays the effectiveness.

Curtain pulls are also important for thieves btw, counters shadow refuge. Also great for pulling over ledges.

Narsil.6579:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Chaos.3579:

there are alot of very egotistical elitist trolls in this forum. (you know who you are, or you will after this post.)
i have a education for you.

before we start let me educate you that this is a thread about “balance” (we will get back to this.)

you seem to all have a incorrect idea of balance due to your philosophy of “winning is all that matters”. you will call anyone that tries to educate you on balance or a philosophy on what is right and wrong in regards to winning or fair combat a scrub. how is this not elitist and egotistical?

here is the actual mindset you need to have when determining if something is balanced or not in this game.

1) the purpose of this game:
the purpose of this game is to have fun (duh!). but not as a individual. in actuality all are supposed to have fun on both sides of a confrontation.
the purpose of this game is not winning as you seem to think.

2) the purpose of balance:
the purpose of balance in this game is to keep the game fun for both sides. if there is a imbalance then it causes aggravation for one side or the other and destroys the point of the game.

3) there are still TONS of imbalances in this game ranging from many class’s, builds, skills, and stat types.
it is not perfect as you trolls seem to think. its funny how you hold yourself up in high esteem because you think this way, AND will troll other people who object this idea by calling them scrubs*. HA

the philosophy of “winning no matter what is used” is not a philosophy that belongs in the discussion of balance. its simply a way for egotistical trolls to alienate themselves and those around them in to winners and scrubs.
there is no point to it that will help this community or really anything really besides feeding their own ego.

you are a embarrassment to the Mesmer community and don’t belong here

You’re only showing your ignorance by talking about a concept you clearly do not properly understand. Inform yourself. Maybe then you’d use the proper terms to at least show you’ve read the thesis in which you’re trying to talk about.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

Playing to Win has everything to do with game balance. Just as Fun has everything to do with game balance. Fun has everything to do with playing to win.

Ross has a point Fun is subjective, people play sports, some for fun, some for competition, same with games, some people want to do everything to be on top, others reach the top enjoying what they do. Trying to force your viewpoint of what fun is on others will make you alienate others, finding people who share the same view as you , will make you grow more.

Or make you degenerate more, which I’d argue is the case coming from his point of view.

Morfedel.4165:

Revelations.3154:

Sigh… I knew this day would come eventually… where I would have to break my silence.

The Mesmer community has been in denial long enough! Prismatic Understanding IS A CRUTCH! Deceptive Evasion IS A CRUTCH!

Crutch : 1. a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support under the armpit by a lame person.

These 2 traits have been supporting our increasing reliance on Survivability

Patently ridiculous.

Is the heavy armor of a warrior a crutch? Is the thief’s stealth a crutch? Is the necromancer’s Deathly Shroud a crutch?

Every class has features, gear, skills, and traits that have their role; survivability being one of them. Why you think somehow it’s ok for other classes while making ours a crutch just boggles the mind.

Keep in mind calling something a crutch isnt necessarily a bad thing. Look at it this way. A crutch allows a lame man to walk, and you don’t laugh at a lame man for using one. In fact it’s smart that he does. You could argue that the mesmer class is severely disabled or lame in the current meta. PU is a crutch that allows the Mesmer to walk in the meta. That’s not a bad thing, it’s good. Things like DE, and Mesmer Staff have also been things that have held Mesmers up since the games release. The problem isnt that these crutches exist, rather that there aren’t enough.

If there is a build out there that is not working in the meta, it could very likely be made viable with the introduction of a new change to the class, i.e. the introduction of a “crutch”. It’ll hold the mesmer/build/player up, allowing it to stand where before it was already as good as laying down dead.

Chaos.3579:

there are alot of very egotistical elitist trolls in this forum. (you know who you are, or you will after this post.)
i have a education for you.

before we start let me educate you that this is a thread about “balance” (we will get back to this.)

you seem to all have a incorrect idea of balance due to your philosophy of “winning is all that matters”. you will call anyone that tries to educate you on balance or a philosophy on what is right and wrong in regards to winning or fair combat a scrub. how is this not elitist and egotistical?

here is the actual mindset you need to have when determining if something is balanced or not in this game.

1) the purpose of this game:
the purpose of this game is to have fun (duh!). but not as a individual. in actuality all are supposed to have fun on both sides of a confrontation.
the purpose of this game is not winning as you seem to think.

2) the purpose of balance:
the purpose of balance in this game is to keep the game fun for both sides. if there is a imbalance then it causes aggravation for one side or the other and destroys the point of the game.

3) there are still TONS of imbalances in this game ranging from many class’s, builds, skills, and stat types.
it is not perfect as you trolls seem to think. its funny how you hold yourself up in high esteem because you think this way, AND will troll other people who object this idea by calling them scrubs*. HA

the philosophy of “winning no matter what is used” is not a philosophy that belongs in the discussion of balance. its simply a way for egotistical trolls to alienate themselves and those around them in to winners and scrubs.
there is no point to it that will help this community or really anything really besides feeding their own ego.

you are a embarrassment to the Mesmer community and don’t belong here

You’re only showing your ignorance by talking about a concept you clearly do not properly understand. Inform yourself. Maybe then you’d use the proper terms to at least show you’ve read the thesis in which you’re trying to talk about.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

Playing to Win has everything to do with game balance. Just as Fun has everything to do with game balance. Fun has everything to do with playing to win.

Say one thing for Sanctum of Rall (and those Rallians that made a name out of it), say out of the three long standing tier 1 servers, BG with its ultra stacked mega blobs, JQ with its long standing tier 1 streak, It’s SoR that people have pointed at, talked about, worried about, named guilds regarding, and had questions about more than the other two combined.

Famous is famous.

Crossplay.2067:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’m sure. It never has, and it doesn’t now.

I can’t say anything about “never has” as that nerf is a very vivid memory. I know for sure as I went to the exact same Ascalon Fighter that I used it on before. I am relieved to see that all the phantasms I tested came out against opponents that were blocking. I’m glad to be wrong about this issue.

Is it invulnerable targets? Like in those seconds between loosing all hp’s and falling into downstate?

Saturn.6591:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Anet buffed curtain swiftness duration in the past. Why revert it? So stupid.

To make it stackable instead.

Let’s see… imagine you run over your curtain 4 times in a row:

4 × 6 seconds = 24 seconds
4 × 12 seconds = 48 seconds

48 seconds of swiftness with a single skill on such a short cooldown would have been way over the top. Thus, this change didn’t look THAT unlikely.

Edit: Btw, adding “no offense” to an insult doesn’t make it less of an insult. And before you ask… I did not “believe” them. But I considered them to actually be possible, even though I didn’t really like them myself.

Stackable swiftness in this fashion may look like a buff, but mechanically its a nerf, If you have to flee, or chase. stopping to run over a curtain is counter intuitive. Nerf.

Revelations.3154:

Sigh… I knew this day would come eventually… where I would have to break my silence.

The Mesmer community has been in denial long enough! Prismatic Understanding IS A CRUTCH! Deceptive Evasion IS A CRUTCH!

Crutch : 1. a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support under the armpit by a lame person.

These 2 traits have been supporting our increasing reliance on Survivability

With DE being the longest running of the crutches but I digress lets focus on PU.
In the context of WvW roaming, About 6 months ago I remember my first duels with the pioneers of the PU build. They knew back then it was stupid easy to troll 2-4 players trying to play whack-a-clone while the popping in and out of stealth executing and negating attacks at the same time. Whether you tried to get them with brute force or condi they could reset with the application of stealth.

Now here we are 6 months later and many Mesmers are still clinging desperately to this trait amongst others all for the sake of survivability. You think I’m wrong? How many Mesmers continue to wrack their minds over placing 20 in dueling just to gain access to DE? Why? Because it adds a modicum of survivability to the Mesmer by target breaking. Next, PU on top of utility of our stealth mechanic which are mostly defense based, we get defensive boons to further bolster survivability. Even excrement has a modicum of nutritional value but you won’t catch me eating it!

So what happened? As other classes where buffed/defined or just better at hard countering what we offer as a profession. We remained stagnant to the point that we have to rely on cheesey gimmicks to just survive long enough to execute abilities and remain competitive.

We are now in this place for the following reasons; the Mesmer community is stagnating, and now we are choosing to perpetuate ignorance and name calling over dynamic innovation. There are 2 spheres of thought in this thread that can be summed up in a statement: "Is survival and doing anything for the sake of survival skill? Or is executing a strategy based on a balanced set traits and utilities skill?

My personal opinion on PU is that people are willing to defend a lackadaisical approach to Mesmer combat becoming no more than butterfly themed thieves. Having the audacity to laud PU as “strategy” and/or skill is laughable. Call it elitist but I dare you to post video of duel with a competent player without DE or PU let’s see how long you last.

Alas that is the current state of Mesmer call it what you will. I will still call them crutches, A-net gave us these “tools/traits” but they have to do better we have to continue to challenge them to do better even if we do not see immediate results… We need to be unified as a community, we need to be educated as a community and realize that Mesmer is not in a place where we want it.

You’re spot on about everything but the bolded bit. At that point someone might be right to call you “elitist”, which is simply a veiled, possibly more positive way to point out you’re being a scrub. Not saying that to be rude or mean, simply that any competent player, or master, is going to make wide decisions when it comes to dominating his adversaries. If/When Anet buffs other things to the point they become powerful and see frequent use in the Mesmer kitten nal, I can see you being “elitist” all over again and snubbing those for using it, laughing, and sarcastically brandying around the words “strategy and/or skill”.

calavel.6249:

Morfedel.4165:

When a thief can pop out of stealth, hit you for half your health and immediately restealth, heal up, come out and finish the job, yeah it is a problem.

And while in stealth they have time to identify which is the real one very easily.

When a thief stealths he is effectively giving you a couple of seconds to do whatever you want (run, heal, stealth, pop prot etc.), because he needs time to set up his hit. He is also making it abundantly clear what is going to happen next. He is going to backstab you, and it is going to happen within the next 3-6 seconds because he needs to do it before his stealth runs out.
A mesmer with a heavy stealth build is constantly pressuring and applying damage even when they play defensively.

This isnt quite as simple and straight forward as you make it sound. Couple problems. In stealth, or just vs certain classes, thieves are faster. So running isnt an option. In fact turning and heading in a straight line is opening your back to them in an obvious way. Healing might work after the first burst, but he can do more than one backstab in the time it takes for your heal to run through it’s 30s cooldown. Procing protection isnt available to all classes/builds, at least not on demand. We all known the problem with the likes of aegis vs stealth, but the real problem is targated skills. If you have a lot of them, if you rely on them you cant use them in your so called free period you’re talking about. So, in fact, that period isnt free at all. It’s pressure the thief is applying despite the fact he’s not hitting you for the second.

Chaos.3579:

WhiteRose.6934:

The problem isn’t that other builds aren’t more viable. It’s that other builds aren’t as easy as PU.

Shatter is perfectly viable. Condition builds without PU are viable. The “problem” is that it’s harder and more risky to roam with this way, and people don’t like that. Players want everything handed to them easy mode, and it seems the new mesmer community is quickly going down that same mindset route.

This is why PU is a crutch. Players do well with it, think it’s because they’re a good mesmer so they try something else and fail. “Well PU is our only viable option.”

No. It’s because while you’re using a build that allows you to ignore half of the classes mechanics, and ignore basic game mechanics (map awareness, smart dodging), you progressively become more and more dependent on the build that allows you to do all of this and can’t be bothered to learn anything else.

This is why I’ve said in every thread about this topic: The type of players that this build has spawned are embarrassing to me and if/when the nerf happens I’ll be more than happy to see them drop the class.

I can see the threads now: “PU build nerf! Mesmer destroyed can’t possibly play moving to warrior.”

could not have said it better myself. only truly skilled Mesmers with a good understanding of balance thinks this way.

On the contrary. That thinking is the definition of scrub. In fact, every point of argument in there is also rhetorical. I mean, I’d love to agree with WhiteRose, but objectively there are no “problems” that exist. The only problem is a prejudice and perception by the author that arbitrarily and subjectively sees the use of PU as “bad”.

Chaos, you’re also suffering from your own prejudices and perceptions. Nothing more.

Anyone had iRogue, down state 3, do the same spawn and not attack as the iWarden? Just saw it happen and thought it could easily be missed considering it rarely comes out.

Don’t forget, WvW is 50% of the damage of PvE. So, nearly useless for standard mesmer mechanics in both instances.

Only person more stupid than the one who’d believe those fake mesmer notes (no offense) is the idiot who attempted to pass them off as something legit.

Anet buffed curtain swiftness duration in the past. Why revert it? So stupid.

I smell roleplay.

Redscope.6215:

Viralseed.9362:

As a Mesmer, I use main-hand Sword exclusively (with various off-hands) since I cannot be bothered with the awkward Clone upkeep of the Scepter.

I would love to see the developers take a balance pass at the #1 abilities, at least for me to consider some of the lesser used weapons.

As a side topic, Mesmer scepter is lackluster because of Deceptive Evasion. Since you make a clone on dodge rolls, the benefit of the Scepter’s ‘1’ chain is lost. You’d absolutely be in love with that skill if they’d balance that trait and give it a cooldown of approx 10 seconds.

No. All you’d acomplish is having people still hate the slow, mechanically problematic and clumsy generation of clones via scepter, AND a massive hate for the Anet devs for making the single most kittened nerf to Mesmers across the board to date. You’re talking near complete class redesign with a change like that. It’s problem enough that DE will have a sideways nerf with the impending vigor nerf.

Leave mesmers to actual Mesmers.

In an EOTM map blob, karma farming around, you’ll get great loot.

In the BL’s? Let’s just say you shouldn’t take out a loan for that air ship you always wanted.

Put rewards on the level of Escape from LA in WvW, and just see where the GW2 populations go.

Mesmer if you’re a mesmer, but everyone else hates you.

Warrior if you’re a warrior, but everyone else hates you.

Thief if you’re a thief, but everyone else hates you.

All other classes arent fun to play, and are fun to play against. :p

Prysin.8542:

You easily get lots of T6 mats from WvW

And yet after playing wvw every day from release, I still don’t have half of what I need to get a legendary. Playing a Mesmer, funnily enough, the entire time (tagging disparity between classes is a kitten). But I digress.

Check the mesmer forum for builds (stickied thread). Shouldn’t take you to long. Join a guild, run with other people, either small man or zergs. It’s a lot of fun. The gear will come if you just keep going, then you’ll have it for life.

Renny.6571:

Nope. Phantasm builds are already ridiculously powerful, I’d rather not have one of the more skillful counterplays removed.

Thief on demand blind spam is skillful counterplay? Makes me wonder what your definition of “skillful counterplay” is.

Blinds are absolutely a counter to phantasm summons. The only problem is that vs some class (ok, it’s thief, it’s always thief that everyone has to build and balance around) it can become a little ridiculous. OP has a point, but it’s not so much that phantasm casts go on CD after a blind. Rather that blind spam makes the balance of the entire thing a joke.

Nausicca.6038:

I have a hardest time beating a PU mesmer in wvw than in spvp. I think PU is quite balanced in this mode, but with the power creep in wvw, it becomes a real problem for me.
There’s also a lack of knowledge coming from other classes regarding PU. If I destroy anyone in spvp with my shatter build, people just throw at me the “cheesy PU” excuse for their lose.

I remember the time when mesmers where feared/respected for their skills and burst dmg. I remember being a big fangirl of Osicat, Seven Mirror and Flimp. Now, all I see is people dispising us because of PU.
No more “wow”, only “cheesy” and “broken”.

It’s disheartening.

The stupid thing is PU was always there. An extra second of stealth without a boon per second (1 random boon, yes). The same thing that is possible now was possible back then. So what’s the big deal? It’s not PU, nor the class, rather it’s the condition meta. You could shake a fist at the power approach too I suppose, but nothing’s changed in the area of being burst down either. At that point you might aswell point at all the high stealth, high burst thieves that’ve always been there, because it’s all the same thing.

Razor.6392:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I would agree with you about the Mesmer if you weren’t completely wrong (funny how that works). That you say they have stun breaks on their weapons tells me you haven’t played one and don’t know a thing about them. Your problem is obvious even if you can’t see it. You’re unable to identify any particular mesmer build, thus you have no idea what to do when you come up against it. No doubt just spamming attacks and rotations on your ele isn’t working for you.

Simple solution: You need more practice.

Do you know how staff 2 works?

Perhaps you are the one who needs more practice, you don’t even know how your basic skills work bro.

Staff 2 is a short range blink away from the target. Staff is also a passive aggressive, defensive weapon with unreliable condition application. It’s a weak offensive weapon and in terms of how afraid an opponent should be of a mesmer using it, it shouldn’t even register on the “thinking about possibly maybe wetting my pants” meter. The sole reason for taking staff is for increased survivability. Really strong choice in that regard, and a definite place to start for newbie mesmers in the harsh world of WvW.

Staff 2 is not a stun breaker, but can be used while impaired (not quite blink). However this does not mean stun-like effects are necessarily negated.

I would agree with you about the Mesmer if you weren’t completely wrong (funny how that works). That you say they have stun breaks on their weapons tells me you haven’t played one and don’t know a thing about them. Your problem is obvious even if you can’t see it. You’re unable to identify any particular mesmer build, thus you have no idea what to do when you come up against it. No doubt just spamming attacks and rotations on your ele isn’t working for you.

Simple solution: You need more practice.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all,

Just curious, with the recent change we made to Retaliation in WvW, could you guys hop into WvW and pay close attention to the numbers now? I’m wondering if the change is enough, or if it’s something we should balance further.

Thanks for the feedback!

What is the change exactly? I’m looking through the linked post over and over and not seeing it.

nirvana.8245:

I’m personally loving the new addition of TC to T1. They seem to always come out and fight rain, hail or shine. Unlike SOR in so many ways.

That’s funny since “SoR” will be back kicking your kitten , and making you all angry again real soon

Aveneo.2068:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Josh Davis.6015:

Last Refuge is something we’ve been talking about quite a bit internally, and we certainly don’t like the way it can occasionally unintentionally punish players.

We’d like to keep the minor traits in Shadow Arts thematically the same (stealth based) rather than simply providing boons or something similar. Keep that in mind when you’re suggestions changes for Last Refuge.
RM
Thanks for the feedback!

And you are giving Desperate Decoy the same treatment, right?

Now that would be silly as ANet devs don’t play a Mesmer. All they do is call them names and swing the nerfbat.

(this was meant as sarcasm)

Humor and grains of truth my friend, grains of truth.

EnderzShadow.2506:

I enjoyed both builds and they are both solid.

Osicats Hiddencat is a Power/Crit based PU build with Great sword, Sword/Torch.

Natsu’s Blackwater is a Condition based PU build with Staff +Scepter/Torch.

Natsu’s is the more tankier of the two builds. Osicat’s does much more burst.

Osicat uses Might Runes on weapons= for fat stacks of might
Natsu’s uses Energy on Swap Runes =works well for clone on dodge for loads of clone generation.

My personal suggestion…

Don’t discriminate.
Try them both.

There’s always straight down the middle only with sword/torch, scepter/focus
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Holy-Hell-Build-s-solo-zerg/first

To the OP,

For your interrupt build here’s how to ice the cake. Take condition duration food, hydro sigils on each weapon, and possibly swap out your runes for Grenth. Then combine your interrupts with long duration chills.

WhiteRose.6934:

hihey.1075:

kaikalii.4198:

I sometimes feel like I may as well just play a D/P permastealth cheese thief.

I laugh at this.
A bad D/P “permastealth cheese” thief will only kill upleveleds and bad zerker rangers/warriors. It just takes one, decent thief (D/D or D/P) or one Hammer Warrior (or a necro, or a engi, or a mesmer… pretty much any class with either high burst or interrupts) to completely screw you in an outnumbered fight.
A bad PU condi Mesmer will kill pretty much everything else.

There is absolutely NO way to defend PU unless you just want to feel good because you are winning outnumbered against people that:
1) are not specced for fighting you (there are NO builds that counter PU)
2) don’t even know how to play.

I will still jump and throw ballistas on every PU mesmer I stomp (and they are many, especially from Gandara LOL), no matter the reason that made you choose such a build.

I like you.

The pu face-rolling is lame and is a disgrace to mesmers. As a mesmer main since release (you know cause that matters) I would gladly see the class nerfed if it would serve to get rid of all the bad players that have polluted my class’ reputation.

Removing PU will never remove mesmers using stealth, and in great amounts. It’s essential to Mesmer survival.

Osicat.4139:

@Tseikk, My opinion is that my build Hidden Cat, or a version of it is one fo the most effective PU builds for roaming.

Solo Burst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTc-GuHlfK

Group combat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze8UY1Azk6k

/Osicat

PS build can be found on my sticky Mesmer Guide in top of this forum. “Shatter Cat”

If you’re thinking of becoming a Mesmer and don’t run one of Osicat’s builds you’ll actually be banned from Mesmering for life.

True story.

Pyro said to GTFO, so you best GTFO.

/jks ;D

I imagine the response will be something about healing power scaling badly for mesmers, and it not being worth it.

In terms of managing health we already have some very reliable setups. Then again, maybe a better healing power system would mean we wouldnt have to rely on the current setups so much.

Of course with so much poison out there, and so little condi removal on the mesmer, I wouldnt be keen to invest heavily into healing power and rely on regen.

CC Danicia.1394:

Please keep this thread on-topic and avoid insults and name-calling against other players.

Way to stand up for pro warrior threads :p

Way back when Id do a map a day or something. But yes, PvE is kitten. Sadly You’ll need it for the gold/drops to get all your tier 6 matts.

LightningBlaze.4913:

I have never experienced this during all the time I spent on tier 1 bg server. When fighting 1v1 against a magguma opponent in the open field and two or more magguma roamers are approaching yet they don’t interfere. Instead they do /cheer emote or /no emote to their mate if he tries to run away to survive but still dies. As soon as one gets defeated another one joins in and the rest stays back, sort of like an elimination round. At the beginning I thought it was the moral of only the first 3 players but during this weekend I have already experienced this scenario more than 6 times across all the borderlands and with different players from various guilds. It was awesome and a unique experience that didn’t take place in a duel, mutual accordance setting.

One of my group mates, guardian build for large scale fights, was bouncing back and forward between scouting two towers. He had 3 Mag thieves having a go at him all at once. A little while later that turned into 6 Mag thieves.

So yeah, Maguma are amazing, or, rather, I should say, like everyone else.

Screen cap the damage and post it.

Were you hit by a player or an NPC? Legendary guards will insta down you.

Azathoth.2098:

• Upward-Spring:
  Virtuoso: The Spring
  The Mesmer springs all 52 cards upwards into the air where they fly in a high arc to rush down to the target, dealing damage to the target and nearby enemies.

• Back-Flip / Forward-Spring:
  Virtuoso: The Spring
  The Mesmer springs all 52 cards forward in a straight line onto his target which sufffers damage.
  While doing so, the Mesmer teleports / rushes backwards.

• Card-Trap:
  The Mesmer summons a card on the ground at the selected area.
  When enemies come close, the cards will straighten up and shoot Chaos-Beams (up to 10 times each) at the targets, dealing damage.
  There can be up to 3 Card-Traps active simultaneously.
  Lasts 15 seconds.

• Anaconda:
  Anaconda by Bone Ho
  bone-Anaconda
  The Mesmer summons a Card-Anaconda at the selected area that spits Chaos-Orbs, which explode on impact, causing damage to enemies near the explosion.
  Lasts 15 seconds.

• Waterfall:
  Waterfall Card Flourish Tutorial
  Angel Beneath the waterfall tutorial
  Call down Waterfalls onto the selected area.

• Cobra-Cut:
  De’vo’s cobra cut preview
  Cobra
  Bone Ho – King Cobra Cut
  The Mesmer summons a deck of cards, which is open on one of the long sides, just like an opened snake mouth, flying from enemy to enemy, dealing damage.
  Afterwards, the Cobra-Deck will fly back to the Mesmer, healing him for 50% of the total damage done.

• Tornado-Cut:
  52 Cards revolve around the Mesmer in a wide radius.
  Enemies within the the card-circle suffer damage each 0,5 seconds and are chilled for 3 seconds.
  Enemies directly hit by the cards suffer more damage each 0,5 seconds and are immobilized for 1 second.

• Thunderbird – 1, 2, 3, 4 Aces:
  Lee Asher- Thunderbird
  Virtuoso: Thunderbird Ace Production
  Thunderbird- Ace production
  The 4 Aces appear and rotate clockwise around the Mesmer for 6 seconds.
  In doing so, each Ace blocks one attack.
  After each block an Ace will be destroyed.
  As long as at least one Ace is active the Mesmer receives Retaliation.
• -> Flying-Aces:
  All remaining Aces will fly towards your enemy, dealing enormous damage. Each Ace will afflict one stack of Confusion to the target.

• Pickup 52
  Mesmer sprays cards all over the ground.
  Causes 50% of all enemy players drop to their knees and begin picking up the cards. The other 50% stand their indignantly, arms folded, telling you that’s a stupid game and that they’re not playing.

Diego Vargas.3058:

I PvE with my constant group of 5 people, this build is to support my party in dungeons/fractals etc.

Ok well here’s my take. You don’t need protection, regen, or aegis from PU. What you do want is a crap ton of might stacking. So drop your staff clones, chaos storm, do your battle weapon swaps, shatters for retal/might etc, and with as much boon duration as you care to take, share whatever boons you have on you at the time.

Diego Vargas.3058:

Osicat.4139:

Ppl can rum what build they want, but I ask this. IF you solo roaming and rum into a gank party of 2 bs thiefs and a warrior, can you survive and get away? IF you fight a guardian or 2 and a pair of necros jump in to gank you can you survive and get away?

Can your build win more than 50% or ressult in infenite draws vs a skilled thief in Wvwvw duels alternative let you escape and lose a thief who go for you 1 vs 1

IF no is the answer on any of these q its not a effective roaming build.

/Osicat

Sorry the context was not wvw/pvp but pve.

Unless you’re wanting the boons for boon sharing or some such, you shouldnt be running PU in PvE. You may or may not want the boon duration from 30 chaos though, that’s the only reason to go 30 deep.

I know what you’re getting at, and how you feel. It’s very hard (stupid really) to move away from at least 10, if not 20 in dueling.

Never the less before Blackwater, there was this that I put up
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Poisoned-Apples/first#post2484121

It’s 20, 0, 30, 20, 0 – I’ve not tweaked or updated it since its conception.