Guild Wars 2

You guys need to chill obviously I read the criticisms and replied with more I didnt say anyone was wrong, your getting way to defensive.

Danikat.8537:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That sounds more like paying to avoid playing the game to me.

Even if you do all that what have you won? What advantage does it give you over other players in any game mode?

You might be able to fool someone into thinking you’ve been playing longer than you have by showing off the gear, skins, achievements etc. but that doesn’t get you anywhere.

In PvP everyone is on equal footing anyway, buying titles and ascended equipment won’t make any difference there. Even in WvW and PvE the difference from ascended equipment is minimal and the fact that you’re unlikely to have much experience actually playing your character will cancel it out. Especially in WvW: you can have a commander tag, full ascended equipment with infusions, thousands of achievement points and dozens of titles but if you don’t know how you actually play WvW and command a map no one is going to listen to you.

In actual pay-to-win games top tier equipment is the deciding factor in a fight. If you’ve got it then you can breeze through everything – you’ll have an easy time in any fight, be everyone’s number 1 choice for teams, jump to the top of leaderboards etc. so if you buy it you are pretty much buying the ability to ‘win’ the game (although winning in any MMO is debatable).

In some really extreme games they then add more toxic factors in. For example the best weapons (think legendary style skins but with double the stats) are exclusively available as rewards for the person who spent the most money on RNG boxes (like black lion chests/keys) that month. Or you can buy them directly, for about $50 each, but they expire after 30 days and then you have to buy another one.

They also do things like sell crafting upgrades in the cash shop which are the only way to make the higher tiers of equipment, but it’s random whether they work and the chance of failure is very high. Or flat out sell items which are the only way to level up after a certain point.

Thats one of the reasons I personally cannot stand micro transactions in games because they take away any sense of progression, its just instant gratification with money and guild wars 2 does not have it really.

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Which again doesnt make sense considering they did get something for it.

It makes sense if you can’t figure it out idk what to tell you. Read through the forums the same issue comes up over and over and over again. I will leave it at that i don’t feel like arguing over a simple concept you can’t seem to grasp.

It doesnt make sense because they did get something for it and considering its been 3 years and you get a huge amount of hours in this game compared to a brand new single player game around the same price your argument is just false man im sorry but it is.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

[…] Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). […]

It’s the other way around, totally. I’m not sure how could you have missed that, they hyped them as a form of horizontal progression for sooo long. If you’re not sure about what you write, please refrain from misinforming people at least.

Anyway about the OP, p2w is a pretty generic term, many would say that mmorpg are becoming more and more pay to “convenience” which is in my opinion just another way to spell p2w.
To me anything that falls under our 3rd party software definition of “advantage”, but it’s granted through an ingame store, classify a game as p2w one.

Is gw2 p2w? Probably just partially and for sure one of the few game around with a store with a relatively low impact on the gameplay.

I dont know about elite specs being superior eiether, maybe some of them for certain things like pvp but really all of them? That would mean zero build diversity and for people to stick around that wouldnt make sense.

Dante.1508:

Ryou.2398:

Dante.1508:

Ryou.2398:

Khristophoros.7194:

This is not one of those “I am quitting because xyz” posts. I actually haven’t played GW2 as a game in months. What this is about is other people quitting. Why do I care? Because I really enjoyed the roleplaying community. I still logged on to GW2 for my guild’s RP events up until today when the decision was made by the guild leader to suspend all official RP activity and stop having weekly guild meetings. The reason is that there aren’t enough people still active in the RP community. My guild hasn’t had any events in months since the HoT hype completely dried up, so none of us were surprised about the decision.

So this is about the RP community dying due to just people getting bored and leaving the game in general. Most RPers play the game, so when there isn’t enough content being released and/or current content doesn’t keep people playing, we see a decline in the RP community as people log on less and less.

I have some specific criticisms, mostly based on my personal experience and why I don’t actually play anymore. This is not a list of “conditions which must be met for me to play again”. It’s just things I think could be improved which could lead to people getting interested in the game again.

HoT lack of content – It just didn’t add much content… Honestly, the price isn’t the issue. The issue is it was hyped up but barely added anything. It added a few very cool things like guild halls and the raid, but very few areas and not even a new city. In terms of creative design, you have a lot from GW1 to work with, yet you didn’t. I honestly don’t understand given that GW2’s monetization model is sustainable and adding a large content update would stimulate more gem purchases.

HoT grind – Most of the new gear that HoT added requires a lot of grind to obtain. I don’t know if this was meant to extend the amount of time people spend playing to compensate for the lack of actual content, but either way there are a lot of people who just don’t aren’t going to do it. I wanted certain things like viper’s gear but I lost interest in HoT well before I finished a set of armor. Another grind issue that didn’t push me away, but probably pushed others away was the amount of hero points required for maxing out an elite spec.

The Raid – I really enjoyed it, but I only actually killed one of the bosses before I lost interest in HoT. They are quite difficult and the only way I killed one was when an acquaintance took me with his guild for a few runs. I also tried pugging VG to get some more of that currency for the ascended gear, and the pug couldn’t kill the boss. Not that I minded, but just pointing out that it was probably too difficult for most pugs. I dunno if the meta has advanced by now but I don’t see this as very accessible content. That is fine if you have other content, but this is the only raid. So I think it would have been better to add multiple raids and have some of them be easier.

Discouraging people from playing Dungeons – I mean sure, the dungeons are probably still worth doing, but it’s about the message. When you basically tell people “this content is now deprecated. No more updates, oh and we nerfed the rewards.” that is just bad for your game in the long run. Sure, you may have pushed more people to play HoT but you shot yourselves in the foot in the long run.

-
So that’s pretty much all I have to say. Again, this isn’t a quitting post. I just wanted to give some feedback due to the situation with my guild.

I understand where you are coming from, to be honest many mmorpgs today dont as many rp tools as they use to, but its bound to get old after a while, and why not to fractuals though arent they suppose to be more rewarding?

I have to disagree with the grind aspects they give you more things to do, people will get bored with sooner without some kind of grind at endgame, no incentive to work towards.

Every mmorpg gets boring after a while because you gained all your new abilities, used all the strategies, and played all the content, not everyone likes to get gear at end game but its there for those who do.

Which is strange because i get bored over the grind and leave far earlier than if rewards were just handed too me, i’d go off and do something else with my new reward honestly not just tirelessly endure daily on some treadmill for a shiny object..

That to me is the opposite of virtual entertainment.. I understand others are different but for me grind kills a game far faster than rewards thrust at me..

this is quite a confusing thread, it talks about role play, but gear and grinding and raids and fractal rewards (eh?) has nothing to do with role play. what matters is immersion, graphics, music,idungeons with a story and a nice look and feel, social features, emotes etc.

Not that confusing it shows that the grind and lack of content is effecting multiple groups in the game, even the ones you wouldn’t think it would effect..

Right but you would more likely get bored faster if it was handed to you allot more quicker, you will only use those new things for so long before you get bored with it.

As opposed to not bothering at all with the grind and moving on disillusioned anyway?

Honestly if the item given to me enhanced my gameplay enough i’d use it for total of the game, legendaries do not appeal to me at all because they are all ugly (to me)..

I have no use for a years grind for something i don’t even like the look of.. But if i’m given weapon skins like the ones we were given with achievement points were handed to me, i’m still using those to this day and i haven’t stopped yet..

I didnt realize you where only talking about gear.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

If all elite specs are better then any regular specs then whats the point? That is zero build diversity, im iffy about people saying this people will get bored being shohorned into one spec for every class.

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

Dawdler.8521:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That does not make it pay to win at all.

The only thing one could argue is HoT, but that’s not really p2w in the microtransaction sense. If Anet had released a HoT style expansion every 3rd month that rendered previous specs obsolete I’d agree with you, but they dont. You cant go to the BL store and buy a pot that give you 100% HP and endurance on a 3s cooldown… and you can use it in sPvP. The game is is 4 years old and everyone that plays GW2 seriously will already have HoT.

But if you ignore HoT, does any of that give you an advantage in sPvP? Nope, not at all because none of that matter, sPvP stats are unique to sPvP.

Does any of that give you an advantage in WvW? Tiny and marginal at best, any real WvW player will completely own you without even breaking a sweat if you’ve bought your ~5% better stats by doing PvE.

I was told gold is farily easy to obtain anyways which kind of makes it void, taking a few looks at the shop you can see there are some nice convinient things you can get that might help make things a little easier but they arent expensive and account bound anyways.

Dante.1508:

Ryou.2398:

Khristophoros.7194:

This is not one of those “I am quitting because xyz” posts. I actually haven’t played GW2 as a game in months. What this is about is other people quitting. Why do I care? Because I really enjoyed the roleplaying community. I still logged on to GW2 for my guild’s RP events up until today when the decision was made by the guild leader to suspend all official RP activity and stop having weekly guild meetings. The reason is that there aren’t enough people still active in the RP community. My guild hasn’t had any events in months since the HoT hype completely dried up, so none of us were surprised about the decision.

So this is about the RP community dying due to just people getting bored and leaving the game in general. Most RPers play the game, so when there isn’t enough content being released and/or current content doesn’t keep people playing, we see a decline in the RP community as people log on less and less.

I have some specific criticisms, mostly based on my personal experience and why I don’t actually play anymore. This is not a list of “conditions which must be met for me to play again”. It’s just things I think could be improved which could lead to people getting interested in the game again.

HoT lack of content – It just didn’t add much content… Honestly, the price isn’t the issue. The issue is it was hyped up but barely added anything. It added a few very cool things like guild halls and the raid, but very few areas and not even a new city. In terms of creative design, you have a lot from GW1 to work with, yet you didn’t. I honestly don’t understand given that GW2’s monetization model is sustainable and adding a large content update would stimulate more gem purchases.

HoT grind – Most of the new gear that HoT added requires a lot of grind to obtain. I don’t know if this was meant to extend the amount of time people spend playing to compensate for the lack of actual content, but either way there are a lot of people who just don’t aren’t going to do it. I wanted certain things like viper’s gear but I lost interest in HoT well before I finished a set of armor. Another grind issue that didn’t push me away, but probably pushed others away was the amount of hero points required for maxing out an elite spec.

The Raid – I really enjoyed it, but I only actually killed one of the bosses before I lost interest in HoT. They are quite difficult and the only way I killed one was when an acquaintance took me with his guild for a few runs. I also tried pugging VG to get some more of that currency for the ascended gear, and the pug couldn’t kill the boss. Not that I minded, but just pointing out that it was probably too difficult for most pugs. I dunno if the meta has advanced by now but I don’t see this as very accessible content. That is fine if you have other content, but this is the only raid. So I think it would have been better to add multiple raids and have some of them be easier.

Discouraging people from playing Dungeons – I mean sure, the dungeons are probably still worth doing, but it’s about the message. When you basically tell people “this content is now deprecated. No more updates, oh and we nerfed the rewards.” that is just bad for your game in the long run. Sure, you may have pushed more people to play HoT but you shot yourselves in the foot in the long run.

-
So that’s pretty much all I have to say. Again, this isn’t a quitting post. I just wanted to give some feedback due to the situation with my guild.

I understand where you are coming from, to be honest many mmorpgs today dont as many rp tools as they use to, but its bound to get old after a while, and why not to fractuals though arent they suppose to be more rewarding?

I have to disagree with the grind aspects they give you more things to do, people will get bored with sooner without some kind of grind at endgame, no incentive to work towards.

Every mmorpg gets boring after a while because you gained all your new abilities, used all the strategies, and played all the content, not everyone likes to get gear at end game but its there for those who do.

Which is strange because i get bored over the grind and leave far earlier than if rewards were just handed too me, i’d go off and do something else with my new reward honestly not just tirelessly endure daily on some treadmill for a shiny object..

That to me is the opposite of virtual entertainment.. I understand others are different but for me grind kills a game far faster than rewards thrust at me..

this is quite a confusing thread, it talks about role play, but gear and grinding and raids and fractal rewards (eh?) has nothing to do with role play. what matters is immersion, graphics, music,idungeons with a story and a nice look and feel, social features, emotes etc.

Not that confusing it shows that the grind and lack of content is effecting multiple groups in the game, even the ones you wouldn’t think it would effect..

Right but you would more likely get bored faster if it was handed to you allot more quicker, you will only use those new things for so long before you get bored with it.

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Which again doesnt make sense considering they did get something for it.

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

You’ve got some heavily rose-tinted glasses there regarding mesmer in the past. Mesmer has always been a pure utility pick in PvE for some niche things it could do, outclassed heavily in dps by everyone else. With HoT, those niche things can be done by half of the other classes in the game, and mesmer is simply not needed. Chrono now brings the heavy utility that everyone wants.

Mesmer has decent cc. Other classes have just as much, and often in more usable forms.

The idea that mesmer stealths better than a thief is both absurd and mostly beside the point, I’m not sure how that single fact would make the class worth playing.

Yeah, people complained about mesmer being op all the time, but that doesn’t mean it actually ever was op. Mesmer has always been a class that is very difficult for bad/stupid players to fight, so you see those players complaining about mesmers constantly.

Except im not wearing any rose tinted glasses here, the forums have been complaining about mesmers for a very long time and I know they where op before and needed some nerfs, I just checked back some pages and I can bump it back up I suppose but there are allot of good points why the changes where needed, I think people just want the op ness back. Mesmers where farily easy to play in an op way when I played before.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

Wait, I like to group while leveling so people arent doing that anymore because of the dungeon nerf?

Why are they not good in fractuals and open world? My ranger was doing great in open world when I played before?

How is mesmer doing currently? I was focusing on dueling spec for solo is it still good?

What specs are good for grouping? Im not sure if people are still doing dungeons but thats the kind of group content im thinking of at the moment.

It will be a little while before I can get the expansion does the new elite spec out perform the others?

Thank you.

Khristophoros.7194:

This is not one of those “I am quitting because xyz” posts. I actually haven’t played GW2 as a game in months. What this is about is other people quitting. Why do I care? Because I really enjoyed the roleplaying community. I still logged on to GW2 for my guild’s RP events up until today when the decision was made by the guild leader to suspend all official RP activity and stop having weekly guild meetings. The reason is that there aren’t enough people still active in the RP community. My guild hasn’t had any events in months since the HoT hype completely dried up, so none of us were surprised about the decision.

So this is about the RP community dying due to just people getting bored and leaving the game in general. Most RPers play the game, so when there isn’t enough content being released and/or current content doesn’t keep people playing, we see a decline in the RP community as people log on less and less.

I have some specific criticisms, mostly based on my personal experience and why I don’t actually play anymore. This is not a list of “conditions which must be met for me to play again”. It’s just things I think could be improved which could lead to people getting interested in the game again.

HoT lack of content – It just didn’t add much content… Honestly, the price isn’t the issue. The issue is it was hyped up but barely added anything. It added a few very cool things like guild halls and the raid, but very few areas and not even a new city. In terms of creative design, you have a lot from GW1 to work with, yet you didn’t. I honestly don’t understand given that GW2’s monetization model is sustainable and adding a large content update would stimulate more gem purchases.

HoT grind – Most of the new gear that HoT added requires a lot of grind to obtain. I don’t know if this was meant to extend the amount of time people spend playing to compensate for the lack of actual content, but either way there are a lot of people who just don’t aren’t going to do it. I wanted certain things like viper’s gear but I lost interest in HoT well before I finished a set of armor. Another grind issue that didn’t push me away, but probably pushed others away was the amount of hero points required for maxing out an elite spec.

The Raid – I really enjoyed it, but I only actually killed one of the bosses before I lost interest in HoT. They are quite difficult and the only way I killed one was when an acquaintance took me with his guild for a few runs. I also tried pugging VG to get some more of that currency for the ascended gear, and the pug couldn’t kill the boss. Not that I minded, but just pointing out that it was probably too difficult for most pugs. I dunno if the meta has advanced by now but I don’t see this as very accessible content. That is fine if you have other content, but this is the only raid. So I think it would have been better to add multiple raids and have some of them be easier.

Discouraging people from playing Dungeons – I mean sure, the dungeons are probably still worth doing, but it’s about the message. When you basically tell people “this content is now deprecated. No more updates, oh and we nerfed the rewards.” that is just bad for your game in the long run. Sure, you may have pushed more people to play HoT but you shot yourselves in the foot in the long run.

-
So that’s pretty much all I have to say. Again, this isn’t a quitting post. I just wanted to give some feedback due to the situation with my guild.

I understand where you are coming from, to be honest many mmorpgs today dont as many rp tools as they use to, but its bound to get old after a while, and why not to fractuals though arent they suppose to be more rewarding?

I have to disagree with the grind aspects they give you more things to do, people will get bored with sooner without some kind of grind at endgame, no incentive to work towards.

Every mmorpg gets boring after a while because you gained all your new abilities, used all the strategies, and played all the content, not everyone likes to get gear at end game but its there for those who do.

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

The simple fact is guild wars 2 is quality for an mmorpg and objectively worth money to buy it compared to all the other mmorpgs they call mmorpgs out there right now.

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

Rocknull.2986:

free 2 play gw2 is absolutely the best trial mode of any mmorpg. actually its currently the best mmorpg free or paid. avoid the kittenness i experienced by just waiting out till HOT goes down to normal 30 expansion price and you will love this game for years to come.

IM glad your enjoying your experience so far bud. Go tell your friends about it.. gogo!

no seriously i want a bigger community

stop reading go tweet

Thanks man I will!

Guys guild wars 2 is not pay to win period, devs have to make money somehow and guild wars has always been about buying expansions, atleast they are not releasing constant expansions every 2 months like some mmorpgs use to. You rather have a free to play game with a toxic community considering no one would have to spend money? Anet did a hek of a job with this, it should be buy to play.

I personally am use to old sub fees or buy to play games so the concept doesnt bother me but trust me f2p games will always cost more then buy to play mmorpgs like this, I dont see the big deal anyways if you already buy single player games why not buy this? You can drop this game and go play some indie games or something and come back.

And anyone who is complaining about the expansion price is just wrong, you get a new classes and new elite specs, a reason to play beyond level 80 that alone is worth it for an rpg. I dont understand how 50 is asking to much, I have seen many expansions with far less for around 60.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Do you know if they plan on releasing new elite specs? That would be really cool, I thought I read somewhere long ago they might.

Been a while since ive played, I dont own thorns yet but was curious how effective all the builds are in pve? I see there are allot of threads about them underperforming in pvp so I think ill skip out on the pvp part for now.

Thanks all.

Been a while since ive played, I dont own thorns yet so anything I should know?

Unlike most mmorpgs today including allot of newer ones I have tried, I was skeptical when I first got this game, ive been burned to many times so if anyone is wondering if gw2 is pay to win it really isnt. Not to mention this mmorpg does have allot of great features even if it doesnt have everything I prefer in mmorpgs its the best one to me so far, ive yet to try eso but since both are buy to play id probably play both lol.

Anyways my point is anet could of easily went this route if they wanted and they didnt which shows me they do care about the game, thank you anet, I think I will probably get the thrones expansion after all.

Ok I do not play thief but came here to get an update if thieves arent in a bad spot and lets see some real pvp and pve videos of the build diversity so many claim to have. Proof or it didnt happen, and im not saying either but really people where is the proof?

Devata.6589:

Wanze.8410:

Devata.6589:

Ryou.2398:

I think its funny people are claiming there has never been an mmorpg to reply on mats and trades, there are a few much older mmorpgs that did this and the most recent one is ryzom, I also think wurm does this as well and wurm is an mmorpg with nothing but crafting, and im not entirely sure but wasnt swg kind of like a hybrid of this?

In everquest 1 days before the bazaar you had to trade items or money, and it worked out.

On the notion of mats. What I see in GW2 is that many (while not all) T6 mats are pretty hard and grindy to get.

This might also be true in some other MMORPG but in my experience (the other MMORPS I players) they highest tier mats where not hard to get at all. The highest tier just did mean you had to be in the highest level maps to get them.

The items you crafted using those mats where hard not because the mats where hard to get but 1: Because they were the highest level items, so you first had to level your craft up and 2: It usually required one item, like a recipe or basically a precursor that was hard to get.

So the rarity came from this one item, not the mats, and that one item usually had a pretty direct approach of getting it (for example, it dropped from one specific boss).

That is imho also the best way to do it.. It reduces the grind for the mats, and every item you craft requires another recipe / precursor what sends you to another part of the world / other content to collect it.

Then on the notion of requiring trading. Here you have a similar problem. Why are you required to trade? Because apparently it’s close to impossible to really directly get the item you are really after. Maybe because you can only buy it with some currency (like gem-store items) or because it’s a very rare general drop (drops in many places but with a very low-drop-rate). So now you are again required to grind for something you do not want (something that is junk for you (or a currency itself, but that does that not involve trading)) to sell it to somebody who wants it, to then buy the item you want.

So the way it’s implemented also this creates the most boring type of grind there is.

So both examples help to create grind, and if there is anything we need less of, it’s this type of grind.

It might be great ways to control the economy, but it’s not great for the game-play.

Well, GW2 and the TP give the the opportunity to intead of grinding, play whatever content you like and use its rewards to get closer to the goal of acquiring whatever you want (as long as its tradeable).

On paper yeah. In reality it means doing anything other than whatever rewards you the best (optimal) basically means you are punishing yourself for doing that (you are getting punished for playing the way you want). And in practice that means (as GW2 proofs) a lot of grind… Not because people like it, but because it’s the most viable way to get to their goals.

To make it a bid worse, that grind also means the prices of items are going up, making the less profitable ways even worse, and with new items coming in all the time, you would only get further and further behind.

So it sounds great on paper, but it’s not how it works in reality.

Not to mention that directly working towards an item is also part of the fun, something many people enjoy.. and that’s something you don’t have with the general grind or “do whatever you want and then buy it”.

Site note: HoT does make some progress here (Precursor crafting, and the ability to more directly farm mats).

But where we not not talking about this existing without a trade post in the first place? If people want a mat bad enough they will trade something else someone else wants for it its that simple and worked just fine in other mmorpgs.

Devata.6589:

Ryou.2398:

I think its funny people are claiming there has never been an mmorpg to reply on mats and trades, there are a few much older mmorpgs that did this and the most recent one is ryzom, I also think wurm does this as well and wurm is an mmorpg with nothing but crafting, and im not entirely sure but wasnt swg kind of like a hybrid of this?

In everquest 1 days before the bazaar you had to trade items or money, and it worked out.

On the notion of mats. What I see in GW2 is that many (while not all) T6 mats are pretty hard and grindy to get.

This might also be true in some other MMORPG but in my experience (the other MMORPS I players) they highest tier mats where not hard to get at all. The highest tier just did mean you had to be in the highest level maps to get them.

The items you crafted using those mats where hard not because the mats where hard to get but 1: Because they were the highest level items, so you first had to level your craft up and 2: It usually required one item, like a recipe or basically a precursor that was hard to get.

So the rarity came from this one item, not the mats, and that one item usually had a pretty direct approach of getting it (for example, it dropped from one specific boss).

That is imho also the best way to do it.. It reduces the grind for the mats, and every item you craft requires another recipe / precursor what sends you to another part of the world / other content to collect it.

Then on the notion of requiring trading. Here you have a similar problem. Why are you required to trade? Because apparently it’s close to impossible to really directly get the item you are really after. Maybe because you can only buy it with some currency (like gem-store items) or because it’s a very rare general drop (drops in many places but with a very low-drop-rate). So now you are again required to grind for something you do not want (something that is junk for you (or a currency itself, but that does that not involve trading)) to sell it to somebody who wants it, to then buy the item you want.

So the way it’s implemented also this creates the most boring type of grind there is.

So both examples help to create grind, and if there is anything we need less of, it’s this type of grind.

It might be great ways to control the economy, but it’s not great for the game-play.

Well when you have nothing but mats to grind yea of course its boring but these kinds of mmorpgs is where you craft everything from the hilt to the metals for example, the crafting is allot more immersive in those kinds of mmorpgs, and have other elements to not notice the grind, the point is if they can do it with grind but not make it feel like one it can be a grand experience.

I think its funny people are claiming there has never been an mmorpg to repl on mats and trades, there are a few much older mmorpgs that did this and the most recent one is ryzom, I also think wurm does this as well and wurm is an mmorpg with nothing but crafting, and im not entirely sure but wasnt swg kind of like a hybrid of this?

In everquest 1 days before the bazaar you had to trade items or money, and it worked out.

Where do some of you think you have any credibility when you do not play thief? I am not saying that thieves are underpowered since I do not know and do not play one just because there are meta builds does not mean they are fine.

Justine.6351:

Yvilthi.5413:

I’ld realy like to see Wolves as they were in GW1..
They were pretty kitten there, in GW2 they look like tame puppy’s

In gw1 they looked like they descended from camels or something.

Lol I actually do remember the colors. But they where not all like that.

Where are the changes announced?

Well one thing at a time they said they will be looking into the pets standing in aoes and getting damaged first, id much rather have this issue looked at before larger pets.

Awesome you used the power rangers song.

Keldras.7091:

Firstly, I’m autistic. I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 since it’s release three years ago. I mostly run Ele’s. Why? Because, I can’t spam the one through ten keys like most other players can.

This is why I was mostly PvE. (I just recently started doing WvW) I can’t do PvP because I can’t spam the skills! I have to rely heavily on my mouse to activate skills because I can’t hit the one through ten keys with my fingers. (I have tried it’s just to awkward for me!)

In WvW I was able to solo a camp. (Even with my awful keyboard skills) I’d use Earth first switch to fire to AOE then conjure frost bow and freeze the Lord then hit him with 4th skill this doesn’t kill him but after a few more fire skills, the camp is capped. I can’t do this anymore.

I was useful in PvE because of my healing build but now with the Frost Bow Nerf no one wants me in their party. I was the designated healer and the only DPS I had at my disposal was the frost bow and now I’m being kicked from PUG dungeon runs because my character I’ve been running for three years has been made useless. it doesn’t help that my guild had all up and left after the first Scarlet invasion. So I am forced to solo most days.

I have put more money into this game than I’d like to think about. I built a new computer just to play Guild Wars 2, now I don’t know what to do…

I guess it’s time to sell my account, sell my PC and go back to console.

Guild War 2 – $50
upgraded to Heroic edition – $30
4600 gems bought from the gem store – $70
HoT Ultimate edition – $100
New PC just to play this game – $900

After 9/29 patch
Kicked from AC PUG 3 times
Kicked from SE PUG twice
Kicked from CoF PUG 4 times
Kicked from fractals PUG….more times than I’d like to admit.

Anet giving me the finger and telling me they really don’t care about the players….PRICELESS!

“Guild Wars 2 has the friendliest MMO community.”
I guess that’s if your not running an Ele.

Autism causes certain uncomfort zones but to be honest your going to learn to adjust if you want to play mmorpgs, as someone else said get a razor mouse for all the keys, I have family that works with autistic kids and truth be told, as hard and sad as it is they have to learn to adjust to society the best they can. And they can but this also greatly depends on the parents focus on trying to help them adjust to the world and get more comfortable with situations they do not find comfortable. I am not saying it is fully controllable for some because it simply is not but it can be managed. So in other words just keep trying man play more games where you have to use the keys.

Shalien.9018:

Watching them use katana’s as if they were broadswords was extremely cring worthy. I get that that’s kinda the point… but omg… OP you’re killing me!

You never heard of cheesy awesome 80s action movies? They are cringe worthy in a good way.

Firelysm.4967:

0 chance to test or give feedback on ranger pets…
Bravo.. What can I say, story from GW2 Core beta repeats, ranger will stay:
- untested
- unbalanced
- no feedback
- no communication as usual..

EDIT: There is no way to test it in PvP, and if i can’t test it in PvP, it’s no point testing it, it’s not like it maters how much you hit or CC the NPCS in pve.

Excuse me no communication? This is on the front page,
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Why-no-AOE-damage-reduction-for-pets/first#post5561165

Irenio CalmonHuang

Game Designer

The underlying system of combat is built around area attacks. This is why the majority of base weapon attacks strike multiple targets in the affected area, unlike other games which strike one target – the one you have selected. Our system makes things like positioning and facing far more important and engaging; this also means that the concept of ‘AoE’ is not as easy to distinguish and thus handle in different ways.

That said, we are currently looking at systemic ways to help with player pet and minion survivability.

This is awesome, as pets are kind of vital for ranger dps, the pets make as whole and when they die in boss fights from aoes its just not cool thank you arena net, thank you.

mrstealth.6701:

Ryou.2398:

Ok I am a little confused here, people are saying they are in the trade post but I do not see the search option and I tried the word finishers and nothing, is there a more specific name for these?

Thank you.

Searching for “finisher” (singular, no ‘s’) will show all of them.

Thank you!

Ok I am a little confused here, people are saying they are in the trade post but I do not see the search option and I tried the word finishers and nothing, is there a more specific name for these?

Thank you.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Ryou.2398:

Sina.9208:

Ryou.2398:

infantrydiv.1620:

Although I’m not entirely unhappy with today’s Ranger buffs (and the Taunt fix which was totally called for), changes like what happened to Heal as One tells me that Arenanet continues to not listen to actual Ranger feedback.

The kind of buffs we needed were the kind of buffs Necromancer got: good buffs to weak weapon sets and utilities.

We’ve seen Arenanet leave specific weaponsets at meta-breaking levels of imbalance for YEARS (take a look at Hambow or D/D ele) and this imo is the #1 cause of stale meta feeling. I hate to see this happening to the Ranger, which although weak during the Cele Ele/Engineer meta, was still well balanced internally.

We don’t need some weird insane might stack + perma quickness tied around a heal skill. It’s janky and random and in all honesty not fun.

Ranger is now pretty much a Longbow based class. It’s like Warrior was, but worse, because the Longbow is entirely dominant among all the weapon sets.

Greatsword attacks remain pitifully weak (when you exclude cheese might swapping or cheesy cooldown stacking like Signet of the Hunt +Signet of the Wild).

Mainhand Axe does pretty wretched power based damage, and Bleeding damage was just nerfed by 20% in the condi damage patch. Unlike necromancer scepter or Axe, we’ve received entirely no compensation for this.

Shortbow is now officially one of the worst weapons in the game. Seriously, try killing an Elementalist or Warrior or Thief or Mesmer or anything with Shortbow as a condi Ranger. It’s also incredibly poorly designed with the entire bulk of damage residing in #2 and the autoattack.

Today we got a buff to Warhorn 5, but not Warhorn 4 which is the skill everyone has been saying needs to be changed for YEARS.

And finally (I’m not gonna even discuss OH Axe at this point), we are still stuck with a dysfunctional sword autoattack that locks us in place. Imagine if Mesmer or Thief sword autos stuck them in place… I wonder how long ago it would have been changed.

Now what I’m worried about is that with this awful Heal as One change (which should be reverted, or have its functionality drastically reduced), Ranger balance has been thrown entirely out of whack and we’ll start seeing weird nerfs because of it.

I do appreciate that the devs are trying to bring Ranger back into the PvP meta, but buffs like this go about it the wrong way.

Also, what they did to Spirits is truly a shame, because the utility was entirely balanced in PvP and WvW roaming, seeing some use, but not over represented. They took that and destroyed it entirely.

Shortbow wasnt nerfed was it?

Yeah, it was one of the first nerfs rangers got.

But I liked shortbow, no more condition builds with shortbow now? Why on earth are they nerfing it?

he means the nerfs somewhere around 2y ago not now – you know it used to have 1200 range and a little bit faster attack before said patch 2 years ago….

Kicker.8203:

Crippling shot on SB: It uses pet’s condition damage (controversal with the tooltip which suggests it takes the ranger’s into consideration.) Also pets have way less condi dmg than the ranger even after the change

I never had 1300 condi damage myself :P
[and my devourer now has it muhahahahahahaha]

Ahh yea im not worried about it then.

Sina.9208:

Ryou.2398:

infantrydiv.1620:

Although I’m not entirely unhappy with today’s Ranger buffs (and the Taunt fix which was totally called for), changes like what happened to Heal as One tells me that Arenanet continues to not listen to actual Ranger feedback.

The kind of buffs we needed were the kind of buffs Necromancer got: good buffs to weak weapon sets and utilities.

We’ve seen Arenanet leave specific weaponsets at meta-breaking levels of imbalance for YEARS (take a look at Hambow or D/D ele) and this imo is the #1 cause of stale meta feeling. I hate to see this happening to the Ranger, which although weak during the Cele Ele/Engineer meta, was still well balanced internally.

We don’t need some weird insane might stack + perma quickness tied around a heal skill. It’s janky and random and in all honesty not fun.

Ranger is now pretty much a Longbow based class. It’s like Warrior was, but worse, because the Longbow is entirely dominant among all the weapon sets.

Greatsword attacks remain pitifully weak (when you exclude cheese might swapping or cheesy cooldown stacking like Signet of the Hunt +Signet of the Wild).

Mainhand Axe does pretty wretched power based damage, and Bleeding damage was just nerfed by 20% in the condi damage patch. Unlike necromancer scepter or Axe, we’ve received entirely no compensation for this.

Shortbow is now officially one of the worst weapons in the game. Seriously, try killing an Elementalist or Warrior or Thief or Mesmer or anything with Shortbow as a condi Ranger. It’s also incredibly poorly designed with the entire bulk of damage residing in #2 and the autoattack.

Today we got a buff to Warhorn 5, but not Warhorn 4 which is the skill everyone has been saying needs to be changed for YEARS.

And finally (I’m not gonna even discuss OH Axe at this point), we are still stuck with a dysfunctional sword autoattack that locks us in place. Imagine if Mesmer or Thief sword autos stuck them in place… I wonder how long ago it would have been changed.

Now what I’m worried about is that with this awful Heal as One change (which should be reverted, or have its functionality drastically reduced), Ranger balance has been thrown entirely out of whack and we’ll start seeing weird nerfs because of it.

I do appreciate that the devs are trying to bring Ranger back into the PvP meta, but buffs like this go about it the wrong way.

Also, what they did to Spirits is truly a shame, because the utility was entirely balanced in PvP and WvW roaming, seeing some use, but not over represented. They took that and destroyed it entirely.

Shortbow wasnt nerfed was it?

Yeah, it was one of the first nerfs rangers got.

But I liked shortbow, no more condition builds with shortbow now? Why on earth are they nerfing it?

infantrydiv.1620:

Although I’m not entirely unhappy with today’s Ranger buffs (and the Taunt fix which was totally called for), changes like what happened to Heal as One tells me that Arenanet continues to not listen to actual Ranger feedback.

The kind of buffs we needed were the kind of buffs Necromancer got: good buffs to weak weapon sets and utilities.

We’ve seen Arenanet leave specific weaponsets at meta-breaking levels of imbalance for YEARS (take a look at Hambow or D/D ele) and this imo is the #1 cause of stale meta feeling. I hate to see this happening to the Ranger, which although weak during the Cele Ele/Engineer meta, was still well balanced internally.

We don’t need some weird insane might stack + perma quickness tied around a heal skill. It’s janky and random and in all honesty not fun.

Ranger is now pretty much a Longbow based class. It’s like Warrior was, but worse, because the Longbow is entirely dominant among all the weapon sets.

Greatsword attacks remain pitifully weak (when you exclude cheese might swapping or cheesy cooldown stacking like Signet of the Hunt +Signet of the Wild).

Mainhand Axe does pretty wretched power based damage, and Bleeding damage was just nerfed by 20% in the condi damage patch. Unlike necromancer scepter or Axe, we’ve received entirely no compensation for this.

Shortbow is now officially one of the worst weapons in the game. Seriously, try killing an Elementalist or Warrior or Thief or Mesmer or anything with Shortbow as a condi Ranger. It’s also incredibly poorly designed with the entire bulk of damage residing in #2 and the autoattack.

Today we got a buff to Warhorn 5, but not Warhorn 4 which is the skill everyone has been saying needs to be changed for YEARS.

And finally (I’m not gonna even discuss OH Axe at this point), we are still stuck with a dysfunctional sword autoattack that locks us in place. Imagine if Mesmer or Thief sword autos stuck them in place… I wonder how long ago it would have been changed.

Now what I’m worried about is that with this awful Heal as One change (which should be reverted, or have its functionality drastically reduced), Ranger balance has been thrown entirely out of whack and we’ll start seeing weird nerfs because of it.

I do appreciate that the devs are trying to bring Ranger back into the PvP meta, but buffs like this go about it the wrong way.

Also, what they did to Spirits is truly a shame, because the utility was entirely balanced in PvP and WvW roaming, seeing some use, but not over represented. They took that and destroyed it entirely.

Shortbow wasnt nerfed was it?

Bran.7425:

Aomine.5012:

Zergs.9715:

.

OMG someone else can stack boons FOR THEMSELVES just like ele does for entire party…

This pretty much sums it up.

I saw an Ele main in PVP forum crying about ranger able to stack protections lol. (By wasting heal skill and bring kitteneless skill called Guard)

Ele is just salty, they generally think that if their profession isn’t godmode then it is garbage.

Correction ele and mesmers, and its funny because I play a mesmer and had no issues with this nerf at all in fact I more then agreed with it.

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

Oh please stop it with human nature stuff dont do that allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

anduriell.6280:

Kreed.2768:

Ashen.2907:

Is whining about whining really any better?

I’m just saying the excessive complaining isn’t going to change anything. We haven’t even had our hands on this elite spec yet and it’s already being condemned or outright rejected. If the Druid’s concept isn’t your thing, then fair enough, but you are not forced to use it, so I don’t see the point of repeatedly complaining about the fact that it might not fit your choice of playstyle. Those who complain about it being useless, weak, and whatnot should wait before making such statements, at least until after the Beta weekend, when they and everyone else have had the chance to test out the spec and gather information on it that can be used to back up those complaints. Or, better yet, use that data to give constructive feedback for the devs to use, so that they can adjust it and make it even better. Just look how much the other elite specs and even the Revenant as a whole has gained and are gaining from the propper feedback players have provided after last two Beta weekends.

We have too much experienced in being disappointed with the changes in ranger.
For what is shown in the twichtcon the Druid has all the votes to become another one and the lack of communication from Irenio does it not make us feel better.

The same as i foresaw the changes in the balance patch will make the ranger the pariah of GW2 and i was right then i foresee if the Druid stays with the exclusive healing path it will become the pariah child of the ranger pariah.
We will have the full set then.

Ok I get that but if that is the case then why continue focusing on a class that is constantly disappointing? If you are not happy with it then maybe you should consider switching to something else and letting it go until it is where you want it to be, we are responsible for our own feelings after all.

Because of the human nature itself deem us to hope things will change when there is still a possibility. And because i’ve invested too many hours in that class and is really depressing to think it is waste.
Also because i like to win and make the ranger and the druid fun and rewarding classes to play is the win for me and win for all in this case.

Oh come on, stop it with human nature stuff. I dont do that, allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

And if you really like the ranger you would stop being so negative about it, being aware of its flaws and constantly focusing on it are 2 very different things.

You might want to work on your forumizing as you are attributing statements to me that I did not make.

Except you did make them.

At first it could have been a simple mistake caused by inaccurate use of the quote function.

But when the mistake is pointed out and you still insist that a falsehood is true it becomes something else. It is a lie.

The statement you insist on ascribing to me was made by anduriell on this very page where it can be easily checked. Not just a lie but a bad lie.

anduriell.6280:

Because of the human nature itself deem us to hope things will change when there is still a possibility. And because i’ve invested too many hours in that class and is really depressing to think it is waste.
Also because i like to win and make the ranger and the druid fun and rewarding classes to play is the win for me and win for all in this case.

Its not a lie it was a mistake, my apologies, relax there kiddo.

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

Oh please stop it with human nature stuff dont do that allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

anduriell.6280:

Kreed.2768:

Ashen.2907:

Is whining about whining really any better?

I’m just saying the excessive complaining isn’t going to change anything. We haven’t even had our hands on this elite spec yet and it’s already being condemned or outright rejected. If the Druid’s concept isn’t your thing, then fair enough, but you are not forced to use it, so I don’t see the point of repeatedly complaining about the fact that it might not fit your choice of playstyle. Those who complain about it being useless, weak, and whatnot should wait before making such statements, at least until after the Beta weekend, when they and everyone else have had the chance to test out the spec and gather information on it that can be used to back up those complaints. Or, better yet, use that data to give constructive feedback for the devs to use, so that they can adjust it and make it even better. Just look how much the other elite specs and even the Revenant as a whole has gained and are gaining from the propper feedback players have provided after last two Beta weekends.

We have too much experienced in being disappointed with the changes in ranger.
For what is shown in the twichtcon the Druid has all the votes to become another one and the lack of communication from Irenio does it not make us feel better.

The same as i foresaw the changes in the balance patch will make the ranger the pariah of GW2 and i was right then i foresee if the Druid stays with the exclusive healing path it will become the pariah child of the ranger pariah.
We will have the full set then.

Ok I get that but if that is the case then why continue focusing on a class that is constantly disappointing? If you are not happy with it then maybe you should consider switching to something else and letting it go until it is where you want it to be, we are responsible for our own feelings after all.

Because of the human nature itself deem us to hope things will change when there is still a possibility. And because i’ve invested too many hours in that class and is really depressing to think it is waste.
Also because i like to win and make the ranger and the druid fun and rewarding classes to play is the win for me and win for all in this case.

Oh come on, stop it with human nature stuff. I dont do that, allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

And if you really like the ranger you would stop being so negative about it, being aware of its flaws and constantly focusing on it are 2 very different things.

You might want to work on your forumizing as you are attributing statements to me that I did not make.

Except you did make them.

Ugh first the druid complaining and now we heal as one is op, yea yea everything is op when the op classes get nerfed, omg I cannot handle stealth its op because I refuse to change tactics and learn how to play with my groups. Reality check everyone should have classes they are weak to, you cannot perfectly balance all classes against each other that is why you group pvp people.

Oh please stop it with human nature stuff dont do that allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

Ashen.2907:

Ryou.2398:

anduriell.6280:

Kreed.2768:

Ashen.2907:

Is whining about whining really any better?

I’m just saying the excessive complaining isn’t going to change anything. We haven’t even had our hands on this elite spec yet and it’s already being condemned or outright rejected. If the Druid’s concept isn’t your thing, then fair enough, but you are not forced to use it, so I don’t see the point of repeatedly complaining about the fact that it might not fit your choice of playstyle. Those who complain about it being useless, weak, and whatnot should wait before making such statements, at least until after the Beta weekend, when they and everyone else have had the chance to test out the spec and gather information on it that can be used to back up those complaints. Or, better yet, use that data to give constructive feedback for the devs to use, so that they can adjust it and make it even better. Just look how much the other elite specs and even the Revenant as a whole has gained and are gaining from the propper feedback players have provided after last two Beta weekends.

We have too much experienced in being disappointed with the changes in ranger.
For what is shown in the twichtcon the Druid has all the votes to become another one and the lack of communication from Irenio does it not make us feel better.

The same as i foresaw the changes in the balance patch will make the ranger the pariah of GW2 and i was right then i foresee if the Druid stays with the exclusive healing path it will become the pariah child of the ranger pariah.
We will have the full set then.

Ok I get that but if that is the case then why continue focusing on a class that is constantly disappointing? If you are not happy with it then maybe you should consider switching to something else and letting it go until it is where you want it to be, we are responsible for our own feelings after all.

Because of the human nature itself deem us to hope things will change when there is still a possibility. And because i’ve invested too many hours in that class and is really depressing to think it is waste.
Also because i like to win and make the ranger and the druid fun and rewarding classes to play is the win for me and win for all in this case.

Oh come on, stop it with human nature stuff. I dont do that, allot of other people do not, its a video game man not real life where it truly matters for something that we truly need hope for. And its kind of your own fault for investing more hours into your ranger knowing it was not getting the attention you want, but coming in complaining over and over like a broken record will not change it. You could of invested time that time in other classes or something else.

And if you really like the ranger you would stop being so negative about it, being aware of its flaws and constantly focusing on it are 2 very different things.

anduriell.6280:

Kreed.2768:

Ashen.2907:

Is whining about whining really any better?

I’m just saying the excessive complaining isn’t going to change anything. We haven’t even had our hands on this elite spec yet and it’s already being condemned or outright rejected. If the Druid’s concept isn’t your thing, then fair enough, but you are not forced to use it, so I don’t see the point of repeatedly complaining about the fact that it might not fit your choice of playstyle. Those who complain about it being useless, weak, and whatnot should wait before making such statements, at least until after the Beta weekend, when they and everyone else have had the chance to test out the spec and gather information on it that can be used to back up those complaints. Or, better yet, use that data to give constructive feedback for the devs to use, so that they can adjust it and make it even better. Just look how much the other elite specs and even the Revenant as a whole has gained and are gaining from the propper feedback players have provided after last two Beta weekends.

We have too much experienced in being disappointed with the changes in ranger.
For what is shown in the twichtcon the Druid has all the votes to become another one and the lack of communication from Irenio does it not make us feel better.

The same as i foresaw the changes in the balance patch will make the ranger the pariah of GW2 and i was right then i foresee if the Druid stays with the exclusive healing path it will become the pariah child of the ranger pariah.
We will have the full set then.

Ok I get that but if that is the case then why continue focusing on a class that is constantly disappointing? If you are not happy with it then maybe you should consider switching to something else and letting it go until it is where you want it to be, we are responsible for our own feelings after all.