http://qtfy.enjin.com/revenant
Their raid build is a power build.
And while metabattle does have a condi build for it, the power build is rated 20 points higher.
Just FYI.
qT benchmarks condi at 4k higher than power…
That 4k gap is a lot bigger in actual play too as torment deals additional damage to moving targets and anytime you have to do some boss mechanics your condi’s keep ticking, whereas power’s output drops to zero. (Also, if you’re keeping up Natural Resonance, you won’t be able to spin hammers for the entire Jalis part of the power rotation like they do in the benchmark either.)
But, qT aside…
From personal, I raid a lot experience, I can tell you that nobody is going to take you as power unless you are in a dedicated static group that is specifically building/gearing around you pulsing natural resonance. However, you CAN quite often get into a Wing 2 or 4 group as condi these days.Also, as for metabattle… They don’t clear their ratings every time there’s a patch and a ton of the “GREAT” votes for the Jalis/Glint power raid spec are most definitely from before the natural resonance nerf took them out of the meta.
Oddly enough, condi didn’t make the list here…
http://qtfy.enjin.com/dps#Ranking
Which is where I was looking. huh…
People do not share the best builds all the time, personally I think the some of the meta is flawed.
There are just to many crazy animations for this game to have first person.
Atm guardian rotation is very easy but we’ll see how firebrand will change it. It’s said that tomes will function like engineer kits so they might bring more complexity to the class.
I am going to have to chime in here and point out the expansion is a ways away so having to wait that long for a class to change is just not worth it, what is to stop anyone from moving on and playing another game at that point? If a class is that behind it is an issue and there should be no reason to have to wait forever for a change.
Long story short, loved my ele but decided to boost him considering I have a few 80s already, but before I decide to dedicate some real time into him right now what is the current viable builds/weapons for pve content in general?
Like hot, fracts, and raiding?
How are they doing in pvp or even wvw? I know these are allot of questions but I need something else to play, I am getting bored with my rev.
Thanks all!
I’m sorry, I may have missed something. By rotation you imply something that might have been thought out, perhaps even designed by someone. However you then mention “condi”, which I can only assume was an autocorrect mishap that meant to read “power”.
Condition being mace/axe with hammer or something.
How is it in your experience?
DPS meters have only confirmed what was already taking place in PvE meta play. Exclusion of non-meta builds has been a thing in this game since meta play first developed. The existence of meters has not in any way increased exclusion behavior. In fact, the existence of a meter gives someone the opportunity to prove their non-meta build is competitive, or perhaps even better.
In other words nothing to see here people do not think for yourselves, do not use rational thought like how dps meters literally show people how much dps meta does vs non meta it literally cannot have an effect on how people view on non meta. /Sarcasm.
Lol seriously think about it, all of a sudden people have something to compare it to and suddenly say well that’s ok I will not ignore the non meta and let them under perform in my raid group because they suddenly have a change of heart? Does that sound rational to you? It is baffling how many of you claim it has no effect in getting people kicked.
Nice straw man. If you’re going to quote my post and respond, how about sticking to what I said instead of misplaced sarcasm based on fabrication. There is overwhelming evidence that exclusion was been an issue long before meters. There is little to no evidence that exclusion has increased due to meters. There is every reason to believe that if meters had not been allowed, we would see similar volume of complaints about exclusion. The obvious conclusion is that exclusion occurs independent of meters.
Finally, of course someone could use a meter to prove that a non-meta build can do competitive dps. That’s how meta comps change. I never said that a player could drop in to any LFG group and be granted the opportunity to prove it. The players who set the meta do their experimenting with a guild or group of friends. They don’t drop into a PuG.
Ahhh yes the most over used assumption on the internet the pathetic strawman comment, if anyone did that it was you to begin with. No but you did imply it obviously.
It’s always the developer’s fault and I’m not being facetious.
It’s not their job to decide how people want to play the game. Other MMO developers seldom take action against farming spots, why the kitten does Anet intervene in matters that do not directly concern them?
/facepalm…
Anets developers made the game… it is their ONLY job to decide how people can play the game. No developers no game no game noone can even play it.
As much as I like things that anet does, I have to agree with you.
I met my wife on a pug Nightmare Court Dungeon run.
Yesterday at Ember Bay a random Mesmer helped me climb to the end, even coming back for me, without even asking him to do so.
I can go to Lion’s Arch and start a random lore discussion or ask people for class suggestions.Yes, sometimes you find the usual kitten or toxic snowflake (specially inside Raids), but most of times, MOST of times, the community has been the best i’ve ever found on any MMO.
Yesterday I created a LFG for Fractals, kittened non meta builds only was the title, lots of fun.
I do agree usually the community is better then most.
If you are using the abyssal chill trait in corruption you can actually utilize sword/sword as a hybrid weaponset.-> very good for openworld as a backup set.
Staff gives more survivability and is better suited for harder content where long blocks and sustain is needed.
Is staff good for any dps builds? I really like using it so far.
So far in fracts and open world I find I have no need to switch to swords like at all should I try using staff instead with the condi build? Since all my dps is condi I just don’t see any use in using swords.
Versatility and DPS meters have nothing to do witch eachother.
If you want to allow versatility and non max DPS builds (also non-Meta build) you get an interestiung problem…
This said versatility and saying: “all welcome” seemingly invites the soldier builds, nomads, minstrels and all other builds imaginable with ranged weapons.
The problem is the “above average or near Meta builds” are not welcome in Meta and are squishy outside meta, mostly cause meta expects certain roles to control buffs and the endurance of the party, and non meta groups or builds sometimes lack these roles
this said…
The 1 Chrono, 1 ©PS, 1 druid and 2 ©DPS can easily be replaced by other succesfull, but non max dps compsNon Meta will often finish content fine, maybe a little slower… Getting a decent comp together however tends to be a horrid experience and it tends to be a shuffle of builds to reach a comp whcih is working in some cases, or at least an understanding of possible builds..
This said DPS meters will show ppl not providing as much DPS.
The use of DPS meters is a big discussion, provided there is not a call for meta comp.If someone joins your non meta comp on a build capable of sustain, with 150 AR doing continous dmg while facetanking is that a bad thing? He is putting in effort to finish the content, provides a meatshield and is obviously familiar with the content in t3/4… Albeit not in a Meta fashion.
“It will cost more time, so more food, boosters and will lower the income/time.”
- Maybe, but I’m here to relax, not to have a fulltime job again in my game.The obvious problem is ppl not running Meta, including but not limited to:
- minstrel(/and to a certain point commander’s) chrono’s,
- minstrel,magi, celestial ele’s,
- magi druids,
- celestial builds,
- PVT bunker builds and
- ranged semi bunkerworld bossers)
will as a group lose a lot of time when they join up.
This is also why the meta developed into zerker and viper, (and maybe commander, assassin, sinister, (and for me also zealot (heal for fractals), even if it’s debatable)
DPS meters should be a tool to improve your own DPS, not to harass player about their DPS… I still feel proud on some bosses when I draw aggro cause I know they seek out the highest DPS, even though I’m on CPS, which means some ppl are likely to fail achieving thier DPS in my group.
I am however very flexible with players using zerkers/assasin or vipers/sinister on non meta weapon and sigil and rune sets. They might have a litle lower DPS, but they often show a good understanding of their class outside or next to the meta, change utilities to suit bosses, swap weapons if needed and providing a more flexible run…
And they tend to stick with parties better. If your group does 25K dps less then a perfect group, who cares. in most cases i’d expect all ppl to carry builds delivering DPS
I do not care much for magi druid in fractals, I prefer zealot, or viper, I certainly do not care for minstrel builds.But if you look past this you’ll see you’ll do enough damage easily,
10-12 k for chrono,
8-10k for (zealot) druid,
20 k for condi PS,
25 for a guardian
25 for a cranger will finish you your content.I expect ~75k for a group thats roughly 15k /person whcih is really off compared to the meta perfection.
Druid 1-2k
Condi PS 25+k
Chrono 13.5k
Condi tempest 32k
Condi thief 34kFor about 105k with a full magi healer. giving an average group DPS of 20-25k p/person on the golem, and thus in Fractals and Raids (or will they?). yes that’s 1.4 times the dmg and seeing this will be finishing content in 71% of the time it would take me, this is relevant on DPS checks (I’d run meta on DPS checks) but in all other content it’s trivial.
If I kill a boss in dungeon in 5 seconds… you’ll kill it in 3.5
If I take 8 minutes you’ll take 5 minutes and 45 seconds.
It’s not like you’ll be standing there killing stuff and take 30 minutes…I also know viper comp will do (in fractals)
Reaper 20-25k
Reaper 20-25k
Reaper 20-25k
Condi PS 17-20k
Condi Druid 10-13kFor about 90-100k without a real healer, giving some utility not seen in the meta comp being very usefull vs more then 1 enemy, and it’s way less squishy… In this case times are comparable… and you’ll finsh in 6 minutes instead of the formentioned 8 or 5m45 with no real downtime… and if stuff dies it’s the PS and the druid….
I do not ask much and I prefer my slacker runs.
Cause I find:
- the frequent toxicity
- the stress over the last 5-8k/person
- the ppl not able to grasp you do not have 18 stat infusions
- the kicks resulting from resses, mechanics, and other non skill related issues
- the flaming and salt and fingerpointing
often found in the “DPS meter meta” less fun.
If only everyone using dps meters and who only trust the meta could see this post.
DPS meters have only confirmed what was already taking place in PvE meta play. Exclusion of non-meta builds has been a thing in this game since meta play first developed. The existence of meters has not in any way increased exclusion behavior. In fact, the existence of a meter gives someone the opportunity to prove their non-meta build is competitive, or perhaps even better.
In other words nothing to see here people do not think for yourselves, do not use rational thought like how dps meters literally show people how much dps meta does vs non meta it literally cannot have an effect on how people view on non meta. /Sarcasm.
Lol seriously think about it, all of a sudden people have something to compare it to and suddenly say well that’s ok I will not ignore the non meta and let them under perform in my raid group because they suddenly have a change of heart? Does that sound rational to you? It is baffling how many of you claim it has no effect in getting people kicked.
(edited by Ryou.2398)
The reason why SOME people are less “friendly” in HoT is because the content is harder and not everyone is good at typing and playing. It’s easy to type in core tyria, because you’re not as ;likely to die when you do. That has nothing to do with friendly. It has to do with the ability to communicate while in danger.
Plenty of friendly people in HOT who just don’t type well.
I did not say friendly I said toxic, perhaps you missed that part?
You often get treated as you teat others just saying mate.
Not sure how this applies to me, I am very aware of this and did not treat anyone toxic, you do not know me just saying.
Don’t know if anyone’s ever told you or not, but you come off as brash to those in here that are saying things you disagree with (be it for perceived misreading or whatever). Which can turn people off. Which could be leading to the responses that point to the maybe it’s you answer.
Now I’m not saying that you’re intentionally doing this.
Why? Because I am being honest? If that is considered brash then you really have to question if those people are taking things way out of context, there is nothing brash about what I stated, people tried to question my experiences and that’s what it came down to, I am not going to let anyone tell me different, I am sorry if that is to brash for someone but that is a personal issue with them not me.
I am not a people pleaser I am very friendly but I certainly do not believe in walking around egg shells or care about someones opinion of me personally.
The reason why SOME people are less “friendly” in HoT is because the content is harder and not everyone is good at typing and playing. It’s easy to type in core tyria, because you’re not as ;likely to die when you do. That has nothing to do with friendly. It has to do with the ability to communicate while in danger.
Plenty of friendly people in HOT who just don’t type well.
I did not say friendly I said toxic, perhaps you missed that part?
You often get treated as you teat others just saying mate.
Not sure how this applies to me, I am very aware of this and did not treat anyone toxic, you do not know me just saying.
I am finding I do better with a mix of dwarf and mall also theme wise glint with mall looks terrible in my opinion, I get bored playing glint in open world as well, I think it is probably way more fun in groups.
I simply cannot believe the complaints of the op, I love hot it is not perfect but seriously your complaining about an expansion cost when this Isn’t even a sub based mmorpg? Not to mention there is tons of content the problem is your not including elite specs, jump puzzles and etc it is not just about the story, what about meta events and rewards?" Not to mention masteries was a very good alternative then another gear treadmill, did you really think about this hard enough op?
Your only listing cons and ignoring the pros which is only validating your convicions instead of trying to be more subjective here. Also the game has tons of casualness just because it is more challenging does not make it less casual, it is still a choice not everyone wants the entire game to be easy, it is an rpg after all and it is supposed to get more challenging as you go. You still get to jump in and out and do not get left behind like in other mmorpgs.
it is hard to find a guild that will run through it with you.
If you’re on a US server, hit me up in game. I’ve helped many many people through HoT.
Here’s someone offering to help the OP out, no obligation to join a guild. That’s hardly toxic.
@OP: are you not on an NA world?
I thank everyone who offered help the first person whispered me in game and we did some of it, as far as finding a guild goes I have been looking and have yet to find an active guild doing many guilds events or any for hot exploration but thanks for judging me and assuming.
[quote=6613193;Ryou.2398:]
Ive, on multiple occasions now, seen individuals and guilds doing guided tours, offering portals through jumping puzzles, etc.
Ive also seen players stop whatever they were doing to help someone who called out in map chat.
And, of course, I have seen players treat others poorly for not knowing how to run an event, meta, etc.
More good than bad in my perception.
Thank you for sharing I was just curious about other peoples experience, and was expressing mine so far if anyone have an issue with that well maybe they should not post here.
The reason why SOME people are less “friendly” in HoT is because the content is harder and not everyone is good at typing and playing. It’s easy to type in core tyria, because you’re not as ;likely to die when you do. That has nothing to do with friendly. It has to do with the ability to communicate while in danger.
Plenty of friendly people in HOT who just don’t type well.
I did not say friendly I said toxic, perhaps you missed that part?
Well, there are guilds and individuals I’m sure who will help but it wouldn’t hurt for you to remember that the expansion is a year and 7 months old at this point. How often in how many games will you find a lot of players who are eager to stop what they’re doing and go back and play year and a half old content instead of the new content, maps, farms and items to get?
May I suggest you look for other new players. Go to the maps and look for players who have low or no mastery points and offer to team up.
That would apply if people where not usually friendly in the base game as it is and helpful i dont expect people to help me but i expect groups to be friendly who are doing it everyone i found have been fairly toxic.
Ok people lets stop trying to be your so called realism into the game but he has a point the builds are extremely small or extremely large it is sensible to have a happy medium and anyone who argues that is being childish.
Exploring hot and helping with basic masteries? I have to be honest so far in my experience it has not been that freindly and it is hard to find a guild that will run through it with you.
Ever increasing stats results in less and less content being available since the old stuff becomes trivial and the gear useless.
It also results in lowering the amount of returning players. At least where myself and my friends are concerned, and I doubt we are so unique as to be the only people that feel this way.
Like many others I routinely take breaks from MMOs, especially when they have little content to provide.
While on such a break, Guild wars sends me an email that an expansion is starting, and I should check it out. What does it add? New story, new skins, and models and new areas to explore! I also find out the WvW has been updated, new maps, new rewards.
All we have to do is…
*Jump back into the game
And we can enjoy the new story and new PvP changes to their fullest extent.I share it with all my friends and we jump back into Tyria for the next 4-8 months tearing it up and having a blast the whole time. PvP, collecting, or PvE we are back the next day doing the content we love. Our classes are old friends we remember, with some new additions but 100% familiar. and while the meta has changed over time
WoW on the other hand sends me an email about the new story, in the new expansion telling me to check it out. Well what does it add? New story, new skins and models and new areas to explore. The PvP has been updated with new maps and rewards. It all sounds great!
All we have to do is…
*Jump back into the game
*Level our character 10 more levels
*Learn the entirely new/revamped mechanics for our classes, which sometimes change their roles completely.
*Farm the new currency to upgrade our gear to raid level
*Join a raiding guild or start our own
*Raid each wing, and gear up between raid tiers, while waiting for more story
*Gear up (or unlock talents) with the new PvP system
And we can enjoy the new story and new PvP changes to their fullest extent.This doesn’t even include the small breaks for a month or two where you miss a raid tier, or a PvP season. guess what? Time to play catch up grinding the “Old” content to get up to a level where you can play the new content.
I share this with my friends and we discuss at length on discord if we really want to go through another WoW expansion. If we do return, it is with much less excitement than a game like GW2, because we know we are in for 4 hours of work we don’t want to do, for ever 1 hour of fun that we do want.
GW1 and GW2 did a great job of keeping this in check. I always feel welcomed back if I leave, and eager to play again when I come back. Because I know when I return I can start doing whatever I want to do.
New legendary armor? I can start working on it day 1.
New jumping puzzles? I can head there immediately.
New story? Instantly be immersed in the lore of Tyria.
New _______? It’s all available to me because there is no power creep, or vertical progression ever.
Amazing post, end thread.
I still think class armor needs to be something added to the game.
I think one important difference is that both FF14 and WoW are subscription driven games.
I played 8 years of WoW initially, and recently tried a free month of FF14, and they both feel significantly more polished and actively developed. But, being subscription based, that is quite expected, as there is a lot of more dependable income to move around for development purposes.
So in a certain way it is disappointing to see GW2 be developed so slowly (lack of treadmill rewards wouldn’t be a big issue with faster development), but at the same time because it is also much better value than WoW or FF14 because I pay significantly less here.
I guess it depends on how you value content as a newer player I find there is tons to unlock with cosmetics.
(edited by Ryou.2398)
Hey everyone.
Have never played gw2 before. I bought the standard expansion pack to Heart of thrones.
My question, should I start with a level one character and play all the way through to get the full experience or should I start with the boosted level 80 character?
Thanks!
Honestly I leveled a few characters and do not regret it. Save the boost for a character that is squishy or someone who is a slow traveler and not as fun to play. However I had a blast leveling guardian even though it was slow.
Don’t torture yourself doing the personal story over and over either it’s not half as good as the rest of the games story. But there are rewards for finishing it.
I do not know about everyone else but I certainly have enjoyed this discussion it is the first one in a long time I have truly enjoyed, thanks for that.
I am not pro gear treadmill, but a lot of standard defenders of the no gear treadmill side are missing the real point of the gear treadmill, incentivizing game goals.
There are plenty of incentives for me.
Wrong game, wrong forum.
Try BDO, BnS, WoW, SWToR, FFXIV, Archage, insert any number of other mainstream MMOs currently on the market.
out of those games i have played, yeah i will agree that they overall do a way better job incentivizing their gameplay. Also note that bns, wow, and ffxiv are currently out performing gw2.
like i said, i dont think gear treadmill should be gw2 answer to this problem. But it is a problem that every game must deal with and solve.
See there’s a problem with pointing out games outperforming GW 2. SWTOR has gear grind and doesn’t out perform Guild Wars 2, same with BDO and ESO.
WoW outperforms everyone because it can advertise on a level no other game can. When Guild Wars 2 has William Shatner, and Mr T in their commericals, we can add it to the same conversation. No evidence at all that WoW is where it is because of a gear treadmill as opposed to spending millions on advertising. Last I saw there was no Guild Wars movie.
Final Fantasy also does some big advertising. They advertised at Wrestlemania for example. It’s a very old, very popular franchise. It is, after all, Final Fantasy XIV. There was also a Final Fantasy movie. And I’m not convinced it’s doing better in the west, which is key. Take a game like Lineage, which is doing better than Guild Wars 2, but they brought it out in the west and it died. It’s doing better than Guild Wars 2 because it’s more popular in the east. The west more likely has less players. Blade and Soul is doing well but again, it’s also more popular in the East, where it’s made it’s name.
The fact is, out of Western MMOs, or doing well in the West. I’m convinced it would be WoW, which is in a class by itself and always has been, followed by Guild Wars 2…which didn’t make it in the East, because a gear treadmill is expected there.
It’s hard to say that Guild Wars 2 isn’t doing better in those games in the West…which is where I live and the kind of game I want to play. And apparently it’s the main target market for the game.
The only reason wow appealed because it appealed to non gamers most people who started wow had no idea the depth of other mmorpgs out at the time and what they offered.
I don’t understand people who ask for stat progression. I used to play a mmo that had gear progression right when it released. I ran some dungeons and got pretty good gear. The difference between my gear and the theoretically best gear was about as big as the difference between exotic and ascended gear.
And then an update came with new areas, new level cap and new gear. At first I was like “yeah, new content”, but when I hit the new level cap and realized I would have to do all the grinding again to get good gear, I just “temporarily” quit. Currently I’m waiting until the devs have implemented their final level increase and final gear increase before going back. Until then the community probably left and I won’t be playing longer than a week.
Gear progression can work both ways. It can keep players occupied and it can drive players away. I believe the difference is in the player’s mentality. Players who seek gear progression see progression as their primary game content. Players who loathe gear progression on the other hand see it only as a means to access the content they really want to play. So grinding for gear does not count as playing and is not fun. The fun starts once max gear is acquired and it stops with the next level increase.
But in most rpgs your getting new abilities masteries are lore unique and not really about getting more powerful but instead adda other ways to play like in most rpgs there is no excuse for mmorpgs with nothing but gear grind at the end it’s just a cheap way to get people to come back.
My go-to melee weapon for a Ranger is the greatsword due to it’s universal usefulness (my main weapon is always either a long bow or short bow depending on the “lore” of my specific Rangers). However, I keep wanting to use the one hand sword because of its ability to poison and cripple, but I dislike all of the off-hand weapons. Every time I do two 1h weapons with a Ranger, I use the off hand very little. I also don’t like the axe’s ability to bounce between targets since that results in aggroing enemies I never intended to target if they were too close.
How do the rest of you feel about the Ranger’s melee weapon choices?
You gotta remember while you may use a set for raid content open world on hot is another ballgame you will likely use different builds.
OP here,
I think my post needs a little more explanation. So here’s where I’m coming from. I geared my character up because I wanted to eventually do ambitious content, and be able to really contribute to the effort. I didn’t want to be “that person” who was playing a DPS class, and doing less damage than non-dps characters. So I spent a good bit of time addressing that first obstacle in my way.
But, of course, there’s SOOOO much more to it than just gearing up your character. After you have all your gear, then you need to jump into the content and actually learn the intricacies of each encounter (i.e. learn to play). That’s pretty much where I am right now. And I’m finding that, a lot of times, I’m very hesitant to really push out of my comfort-zone, because people are terribly impatient with group-members who do dumb things or don’t know all the things that they know.
And I just wish there was something left in the game to incentivize the process. But there isn’t. I don’t care about skins and auras because I’ve already (painstakingly) chosen a great look that I have no desire to change. I don’t care about miniatures, or guild-decorations, or achievement-points, because they’re utterly irrelevant to what I want to do in the game. I don’t care about mastery points because I already have all the ones that will ever matter. And I don’t care about legendaries because they’re functionally identical to their ascended counterparts.
So I’m just looking at this stomach-churning grind through the content, with temperamental people who are way more skilled/experienced than me and with no actual rewards coming my way. And there’s a part of me that just says, why bother? But then, there’s nothing else in the game. I can’t stand to do another Tequatl kill or Dragon’s stand meta. I’m bored to death of open-world content.
I’m not sure you even understand the illusion of s gear grind. What rewards are you looking for exactly then if not gear? What other options are there? There is nothing special about gear grind and in most mmorpgs they are cosmetic as well except you have the boring gear treadmill illusion.
Now if you suggested unique class gear that had unique procs, abilities, or improved certain abilities if that class only then you would be onto something.
I can get behind class unique sets just not gear treadmills.
It would be nice if the Engineers were improved. They aren’t very effective, and their game-play is a bit dull. The only time I had a use for mine was the engi-farm in Lake Doric. That was short-lived, not surprising, but at least I had a use for mine.
For long range, turrets were the only useful weapon, but they are short-lived. Rifle doesn’t do much. Grenades, etc and such only work for relatively stationary targets – they take too long to recharge, like the Ele scepter skill #2, Dragon’s Tooth. Only useful if you can anticipate where the target is moving. Very limited application.
Even the elite skills are: mortars (same issues as grenades). Elixir…funny but not overly useful. More turrets. Charzooka….only if knockback is “good idea” – fairly limited considering its an elite.
What I liked about the engi-farm? I had an application for my engineer. Well, in engineer parlance…back to the drawing board.
The most complaints I’ve heard is the engie doesn’t feel much like s power house or a awesome character that gunswings rifle or dw. I have tried one myself and to be honest it was unimpressive. I’ve also never seen snow engine using the hammer.
We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.
I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games.
Thank you. Independent of the thread, this summed up the issues of GW2 quite succinctly.
Show me another mmorpg with such unique things to do outside of crafting and combat? These things are not that bad, yes the jump puzzles sometimes are a bit much but beyond that it is not as flawed as people make it out to be, they have fixed it over time and made it better.
Guildwars 2 has great activities. The world is amazing, the puzzles, everything. The problem IMO is the reward for the activities. There is no thrill. Everything is linear. You know you can do X activity and get Y reward. There is (almost) no OMG I JUST GOT Z REWARD INSTEAD OF Y REWARD. Y reward most often is a currency you farm for 10 years so you can upgrade the color and shape of your shirt.
I am confused how is there no rewards? Jump puzzles have vistas and etc, then you have chests for special jump puzzles, when was the last time you played? And linear? Are you kidding me? What? This is the most free roamish mmorpg I have played that is not an actual sandbox.
And if you wanted a more of an rng factor into those chests then you wont likely like the rng range, careful what you wish for, and if they had to do it for some they would have to do it for all.
when people post a complaint, you have to look not just at the words they use, but towards the overall meaning of what they are saying.
He isnt saying that they dont give you enough items for doing things, he is saying that whatever the reward is, it rarely feels compelling.
He feels random drops usually feel compelling, in comparison with gw2 drops.
When he says they feel linear, he is saying it feels like walking 6 miles to get something you want, as opposed to finding it in a junkyard.
basically he is a lot of endgame activities dont “feel” rewarding, not that they have no rewards
Do not talk to me like a child, you have no idea what he meant by linear though he did not say loot was linear, so your just assuming at this point, and the loot is not linear, in fact it is far from it. I did take in his entire post and it is not correct.
That moment when t3 wvw armor looks better than legendary armor /faceplam.
When will people realize that certain legendaries fit in theme with certain classes better then others?
We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.
I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games.
Thank you. Independent of the thread, this summed up the issues of GW2 quite succinctly.
Show me another mmorpg with such unique things to do outside of crafting and combat? These things are not that bad, yes the jump puzzles sometimes are a bit much but beyond that it is not as flawed as people make it out to be, they have fixed it over time and made it better.
Guildwars 2 has great activities. The world is amazing, the puzzles, everything. The problem IMO is the reward for the activities. There is no thrill. Everything is linear. You know you can do X activity and get Y reward. There is (almost) no OMG I JUST GOT Z REWARD INSTEAD OF Y REWARD. Y reward most often is a currency you farm for 10 years so you can upgrade the color and shape of your shirt.
I am confused how is there no rewards? Jump puzzles have vistas and etc, then you have chests for special jump puzzles, when was the last time you played? And linear? Are you kidding me? What? This is the most free roamish mmorpg I have played that is not an actual sandbox.
And if you wanted a more of an rng factor into those chests then you wont likely like the rng range, careful what you wish for, and if they had to do it for some they would have to do it for all.
You get skins.
You don’t need gear treadmill for challenge. At a certain point the challenge is scaled for optimal stats anyways, it’s just a question of if you want to put people on a treadmill to get to that point every time there is new content, which is not nessicary other than for pointless padding and filler.
If you don’t like skins as a reward, then to bad. Marginalized numbers isn’t much of a reward to most of the playerbase either. Game isn’t going to change for you, you might prefer playing WoW.
We (try) to have a skill based game not one where your gear carries you.
If you find high end frac and raids to casual, then that is an instance balance issue, not a gear one. If the lack of challenge is the problem, then asking for objectively better stats only makes you more casual since the pros de-buff themselves so only the truely hard core can manage it.
One thing people are forgetting is they can also make gold and convert to gems to get things in the store as well.
It sounds like OP is playing the wrong game…
WoW is that way —-————>I really dislike your mentality. This is the main mentality of the Guildwars 2 fan boys. It is even worse on Reddit. You seem to think that if someone is attacking what YOU like they should just leave the game, instead of thinking and helping them to make the game also right for them. It isn’t just one person having this feelings, there are many. Hell, I even left the game for 2 years because of this. Those could have been 2 years where I spent money in the gem store and supported the game.
No we won’t leave. I will be vocal about what I dislike and I will stay until I can’t enjoy the game anymore.
I agree with you there are better ways to suggest a gear treadmill game, it is common for people to defend mmorpgs though I have seen this happen constantly in every mmorpg when someone points out a flaw, it is still just a game at the end of the days everyone:)
However he is right, if you want a gear treadmills you have some choices but I do not recommend wow unless you do not mind an older combat system. I really do not recommend eso though because I found the endgame content hardly varied if you wanted to raid.
We’re talking about a game with little to no difficulty in the open world. We’re talking about a game where most skills are useless, clumsy or balanced for pvp, which makes them feel underwhelming and unsatisfying to use in PvE. We’re talking about a game that still has repetitive grinds just as much as any other MMO, just with cosmetics instead of more powerful items. We’re talking about a game that forces you to go into jumping puzzles to complete map achievements, and then had a kitten bad game engine that puts invisible barriers and invisible ground everywhere you jump into.
I can go on, but GW2 isn’t exactly the champion of “fun” games.
Thank you. Independent of the thread, this summed up the issues of GW2 quite succinctly.
Show me another mmorpg with such unique things to do outside of crafting and combat? These things are not that bad, yes the jump puzzles sometimes are a bit much but beyond that it is not as flawed as people make it out to be, they have fixed it over time and made it better.
Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.
Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.
I agree i hate gear tread mills and would not play GW2 at all if they did that.
But im wondering why GW2 doesnt make unique rewards for X thing.
For instance a unique armor set for 10k PvP games played then 20k and 30k.
Same thing for WvW players.
Then for PvE players unique items for X amount of characters with 100% completion of core tyria.
People have talked a long time about why there isnt mini drops/rewards unique to a boss/event/ or achievement. They did it for the dungeon but then made it a item for guild mission in HOT.
I really wished they cared about the long term life of the game but they killed PvP aspect of this when they made levels super easy to obtain.
I agree that would be cool and add allot of fun for doing them in my opinion.
gw2 is ment for bad players Anet needs to give those gimmicks so they think its them that are good.
conditions should have stayed like we had on gw1…..
Because GW2 is the only game that uses drain over time/condition damage right… conditions are fine learn to deal with it.
Sarcasm? I hope so considering nearly every mmorpg ive ever played has had condition classes.
power does damage. condis should affect status only. condis shouldn’t do any damage
No just no, in nearly every mmorpg I have played there are damage over time classes, like in everquest 1 necro, shaman, and many more, in eq2 you had warlocks, shadow knights and etc. In wow you had the warlocks.
yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.[/quote]
I think the Mastery system is ANet’s answer to the power creep/gear treadmill question. Maybe they made some mistakes, and who has not ever made mistakes, but those mistakes don’t mean that they aren’t working out a viable system to give players new ways to interact with the environment, ways to move around, and new skills that allow your characters to progress and become more than what they were. And all this without introducing power creep and the need to constantly regear to keep up. [/quote]
I could not agree more, while I do miss alternate advancement systems like in everquest 2 where you would get new combat abilities I can see why it can easily ruin a game, the masteries are awesome maybe they could find a way to add new combat abilities into those instead.
MMOs, powercreep and gear treadmills
For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it. We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.
Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:
1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.
2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.
3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.
4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.
5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.
6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.
It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on.
this editorial is fairly biased, it also ignores the main reason power creep exist in rpgs, which is that it is one of the prime focuses of the genre. An rpg allows your charachter to grow as you progress through the game. Whether it be a dungeon and dragons charachter sheet, a final fantasy 3 adventure, a never winter nights, etc.
so, now you take that paradigm, of customizing your charachter, getting more advanced by going on adventures, finding new power and abilities after conquering that enemy, and you put it a game that you want to theoretically never end.
the shifting goalpost then isnt some crazy thing, its the simplest answer to the question.
now, i will say, maybe its time for some new answers, or remixed designs, but lets not act like progression or the desire for it is some unnatural concept within the rpg game genre.
Accept that its natural for people to want growth and progress in an rpg, now think of ways to do it without the same pitfalls old designs fell into.
It’s natural for people to want growth and progress however it does not need to be through a traditional gear treadmill, such as the OP is asking for.
This game is attempting to give growth and progress through the Mastery system. Get enough mastery points and you can glide, auto loot, use oakhearts to leap tall buildings with a single bound. All of which is growth and progression and none of which is a gear treadmill.
yeah i think the mastery system is decent, but the mastery system is focused on expansions, and generally leads you through open world content, it doesnt translate that well as an incentive for instances. Also the mastery system we saw in HoT had a number of problematic implementations, that turned off many players.
Uhhhh no the masteries unlock allot of core things beyond special abilities to unlock hot content, not to mention a faster way to get legenderies.
Op I am telling you, I highly doubt you will find any gear treadmills fun in the current mmorpg market with a 75 80 hour work week, I played eso before gw2 and you have to invest quite a bit of time into the game because of the rng, even if you craft your own gear it takes a long time to get all your research done and use only crafted sets and trust me you will want to go beyond those.
Your telling me you unlocked all your masteries? The thing about guild wars 2 is your meant to play it moderately, you can play other games on the side, but again I do not recommend a gear treadmill the rng in most of them are pretty bad.
I kind of agree with the op, enemies slow us way to much in the game as it is, and in my opinion ruins the flow of the game when it is so over used. I think the mastery may be a nice idea, but to make it more balanced you have to have completed the entire map first as well and cannot attack any mobs within the node area on a cooldown of some kind.
This is a troll post right? Lol gear treadmill? I do not think so buddy this is a fashion treadmill. You cannot be serious about soloing raids, lol omg this guy cannot be serious this is still an mmorpg at the end of the day, if you could solo a raid it would not be called a raid nor would it be an mmorpg.
Hmmm impossible odds does need a cost reduction for sure, or they should change how it works and turn it into a group buff.