Guild Wars 2

Clearly tons of people left because anet needed to appeal to esports which was understandable but they did not really divide the skills therefor alienating different kinds of players. Esports pvp killed build diversity period, now I know elite classes did help not but they could of easily been fixed.

Believe it or not most mmorpg players these days need and want build diversity.

And druid, also which cultural armors do you like for ranger? Also I will be male thank you.

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Sorry but that is not right anything does not go in fractals or raid wings from what I remember.

i didnt meant it that way. i meant pve outside of raids. i know raids can be strict and most often has to be.

Well I said endgame

maybe im just writing it in bad grammar, but im basically saying the same thing you’re saying when it comes to raid, i apologize English isn’t my main language.

also to me raids isn’t the only endgame. theres also speed runs and solo clears that involves builds.

No need to apologize I appreciate the help.

godspeed, i hope you give guards a good try, if you end up liking wvw, would love to see what build you end up with in a montage someday.

Hmmm to be honest I am not really sure how I feel about wvw I have tried it here before but I played quite a bit of it in eso and to be honest I do not care for it, its gimmicky at best for the amount of time I waste traveling, I think wvw type of pvp is a little overrated, if I want that kind of pvp I think I would play an mmorpg with real focus on pvp and territory.

I think I just prefer basic pvp modes in pve mmorpgs.

theres many angles to look into it, nowadays i treat it as how open pk server are in old mmos, the feeling of knowing you’ll get jumped or chased at any moment is fun when roaming.

also i like to try silly build too, and since wvw uses your pve gear, all gear stats are allowed unlike pvp. but thats about the only point of wvwing for me, for others im sure it’s very diff and that’s ok.

Yea I can see myself enjoying for being able to have a bit more freedom in builds myself good point.

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Sorry but that is not right anything does not go in fractals or raid wings from what I remember.

i didnt meant it that way. i meant pve outside of raids. i know raids can be strict and most often has to be.

Well I said endgame

maybe im just writing it in bad grammar, but im basically saying the same thing you’re saying when it comes to raid, i apologize English isn’t my main language.

also to me raids isn’t the only endgame. theres also speed runs and solo clears that involves builds.

No need to apologize I appreciate the help.

godspeed, i hope you give guards a good try, if you end up liking wvw, would love to see what build you end up with in a montage someday.

Hmmm to be honest I am not really sure how I feel about wvw I have tried it here before but I played quite a bit of it in eso and to be honest I do not care for it, its gimmicky at best for the amount of time I waste traveling, I think wvw type of pvp is a little overrated, if I want that kind of pvp I think I would play an mmorpg with real focus on pvp and territory.

I think I just prefer basic pvp modes in pve mmorpgs.

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Sorry but that is not right anything does not go in fractals or raid wings from what I remember.

i didnt meant it that way. i meant pve outside of raids. i know raids can be strict and most often has to be.

Well I said endgame

maybe im just writing it in bad grammar, but im basically saying the same thing you’re saying when it comes to raid, i apologize English isn’t my main language.

also to me raids isn’t the only endgame. theres also speed runs and solo clears that involves builds.

No need to apologize I appreciate the help.

Krino.4501:

Ryou.2398:

Sorry but that is not right anything does not go in fractals or raid wings from what I remember.

i didnt meant it that way. i meant pve outside of raids. i know raids can be strict and most often has to be.

Well I said endgame

For raiding and endgame stuff in general and hopefully pvp? Looking into playing this again druid seems kind of cool.

Looking to get back into the game and looking for the most build diversity for endgame stuff raids and etc, and hopefully pvp as well thanks all.

Sorry but that is not right anything does not go in fractals or raid wings from what I remember.

Thinking about coming back to this for a while and trying to find the class with the most build diversity for end game and pvp thank you.

Meaning non open world stuff pve and pvp for endgame stuff. Thanks all.

Sartharina.3542:

Ryou.2398:

Your confusing bad mmorpg leveling design with old and outdated, see the thing is you need to make the grind fun enough, people are not tired of leveling systems in mmorpgs they are tried of shallow rpg leveling elements. Just because some kids with add complain about leveling does not mean it is outdated or that it is changing there are tons of mmorpgs coming out with very deep leveling systems like patheon or albion online for example your spreading some strange misinformation or your very mis inforfmed this is so far from being true.

The secret world for example had a very amazing leveling system and the fact the story was so well done and interesting for people most people loved it. The people who are complaining never experienced a good leveling system in an mmorpg, also your talking about guild wars 2 which yes I agree here its a little shallow but this could easily be fixed with an alternate advancement system but they would have to add new skills and they likely do not wish to do that.

No… leveling is pretty much a dying concept. It’s largely been replaced by Character Builds. GW2 would be a VERY boring game if everyone had every trait and skill added to your character’s power and ability as they were unlocked – instead, the game is focused on filling the limited skill slots and trait lines, with progression added in the form of acquiring gear that complements the builds.

Instead of focusing reaching the next level of power, RPGs have started focusing on creating a fun or effective character within a given level (In MMOs, it’s always max level – and it’s why low max levels compared to abilities have become so much of a thing). In tabletop campaigns, it’s the level of the adventure.

Just stop it is far from a dying concept, just because you do not like it does not mean it is dying lol and you cannot even prove it your literally full of it and for some reason you want to convince others it is true. You have zero clue what your talking about here. Your comparing one leveling system which is very shallow to literally every other rpg if people did not like them they would not be highly rated nor would anyone be developing nothing but older style school mmorpgs which is literally what is coming out soon and that is like 5 western mmorpgs like this, not to mention more recent ones that have come out. If anything it is shallow leveling systems that are dated and no one is designing anymore.

joneirikb.7506:

Ryou.2398:

SkyShroud.2865:

Leveling was never the main focus, it is not following the old school mmorpg ways. The game difficulty highly focus on couple of things – builds, compositions, teamwork and understanding what need to be done. Gear grind is not a big barrier like old school mmorpg, you get gears rather easily. In the entire pve, the only contents you can consider difficult will be raid and raid too will get easy once you know how to do it since it isn’t randomised, it is base on patterns. WvW is always evolving due to players against players but the slow developments have demoralized many.

Where the hek do you come up with this load of lies? Leveling in rpgs is not an old outdated system lol, lol, seriously I am laughing, leveling rpgs gets you new skills and new things to unlock that change the way you play, what your trying to describe is mobas and not everyone likes having all skills unlocked that is why some mobas do not do this.

GW2 is designed around trivializing leveling, you see it in how the game plays, you get xp for everything you do. Bunch of things that gives you a lot of XP all over, heck you get 8 levels just from map exploring the 6 cities. I’ve done a couple of 80’s just running through maps getting Waypoints, hero points, and random exploration and ignoring mobs.

You get most of your skill (slots) early, unlock most of the important features early. By level 21 you got first trait line, and 30 for elite. After that the only thing left is just a time-gate for unlocking more traitlines, hero points, and basically getting the level to 80 so you can equip exo80. The game lets you play the game at level 20-30, everything after that is just “time-gate”.

There are also several ways you can design levels to work. You could for example give ALL skills, slots, traitline slots, etc at start. So at level 1 you have everything open. But start with 0 hero points, and have to level to get more hero points to learn skills and trait lines to fill the open slots with etc.

The traditional MMORPG style of leveling is however becoming more and more outdated. People just don’t have the patience for that kind of long grinding mobs etc that MMO’s used to be about. Players have become more impatient, the older gamers no longer have time to waste killing 50 rats, and the kids with all their phones and tablets etc doesn’t have the attentionspan :p

Times are changing. Long drawn out leveling systems are most likely going to end up a relic only used in some hardcore singleplayer cRPG and jRPG games.

---

Miss GW1’s way to do this, I think it would have worked great in GW2. Levels 1-20 basically tutorial and unlock all the features. But give 0 hero points, and then you have to explore the world for heropoints in order to learn skills and trait lines. And perhaps get back the 1 skill point per “level” after 20.

---

Honestly leveling is a horrible “design”, and the older I get and more games I play, the more I absolutely hate leveling in any form in any games. Because it is basically a designed “time waste”, to artificially extend the duration of content behind “time-gates”.

Personally I’d love if I got the option to make a character, and choose to use the PVP system for the entire game. The level scaling system means I can still play the entire game somewhat.

Your confusing bad mmorpg leveling design with old and outdated, see the thing is you need to make the grind fun enough, people are not tired of leveling systems in mmorpgs they are tried of shallow rpg leveling elements. Just because some kids with add complain about leveling does not mean it is outdated or that it is changing there are tons of mmorpgs coming out with very deep leveling systems like patheon or albion online for example your spreading some strange misinformation or your very mis inforfmed this is so far from being true.

The secret world for example had a very amazing leveling system and the fact the story was so well done and interesting for people most people loved it. The people who are complaining never experienced a good leveling system in an mmorpg, also your talking about guild wars 2 which yes I agree here its a little shallow but this could easily be fixed with an alternate advancement system but they would have to add new skills and they likely do not wish to do that.

SkyShroud.2865:

Leveling was never the main focus, it is not following the old school mmorpg ways. The game difficulty highly focus on couple of things – builds, compositions, teamwork and understanding what need to be done. Gear grind is not a big barrier like old school mmorpg, you get gears rather easily. In the entire pve, the only contents you can consider difficult will be raid and raid too will get easy once you know how to do it since it isn’t randomised, it is base on patterns. WvW is always evolving due to players against players but the slow developments have demoralized many.

Where the hek do you come up with this load of lies? Leveling in rpgs is not an old outdated system lol, lol, seriously I am laughing, leveling rpgs gets you new skills and new things to unlock that change the way you play, what your trying to describe is mobas and not everyone likes having all skills unlocked that is why some mobas do not do this.

I loved things about guild wars 2 and debating to get back into it because I subbed for the long haul in eso, I enjoy eso but the class diversity and combat is lacking compared to guild wars 2, while eso has amazing question lands, crafting, and more guild wars 2 combat and classes are superior along with the actual raid content and dynamic events, and even the world bosses are way better in gw2. Maybe I can play both but I do not know eso takes allot of investment if your into crafting.

Crinn.7864:

Ryou.2398:

No offense but this is not helpful at all, I do not need max optimal so I do not trust metabattle and people hardly update it anymore from what I hear, anyways stop trying to blame me here I am asking because I invest my precious time into a game, I want build diversity that is fairly effective it is that simple. If anyone is adding to the problem here its your attitude and reply here, your the only one being negative if you do not like my question then why did you even answer?

You mistake my meaning. I am not attacking you.

Metabattle is useful in that it is the closest GW2 gets to having a standard. It’s not the bible but it is a good pocket guide to the accepted meta.

My apologies, it just seemed that way, thank you.

kdaddy.5431:

Honest answer,

In PvE you can run almost anything. Some builds are better for speed runs for dungeons or fractals. Some are better for support which makes it easier to carry. There is no real way to do Pve wrong other then throwing stuff on and traits and just expecting it to work. If you take time on what you want you can make any PvE build effective.

For raids, you need to run the meta unless you get your own static group or raid guild with many members capable of doing them. The last patch has killed some diversity and as someone who pugged all his raid kills ive been unable to find a good pug group of recent. Now i dont raid often so dont take my comment as something the community struggles with or you yourself will struggle with if you go into raiding.

Simply put if you go into raids who have to find something your class can be good at, get elite gear, learn the mechanics of the bosses and find a group of people willing to work with you. For instance in the raid/dungeons/forum a new guild training group started and they got over 30+ members very quickly. People want to raid but it can be very hard to get into.

As for PvP once again in unranked you might be able to get away with alot of things. With match making the way it is and the burst meta currently going on you can run alot of different things in solo unranked que.

If you want to play seriously/competitive you will need to play a certain build at a certain level to compete with the better players in the game. At high level PvP in structured teams classes only have 1 real option for play.

Wit that being said ranked que will be changing as well as the team format. PvP is at a odd cross road where no one is really sure the direction Anet will take it. Its not meant for teams anymore it would seem but the question will become whether or not its skill based or grind based.

In either situation if you can get good at the meta build of it you can do some real things but if you are looking to have fun, you can run any type of build in unranked and do well.

Alright thank you, I think I will probably just buy eso soon, and hopefully some day it will feel like they care about build diversity again.

Crinn.7864:

Are they listed on metabattle? If so they have viable builds.

If you’re in the “metabattle is overrated” camp, then answering your questions requires defining “viable” (which will raise controversy), defining “optimal” (which will raise controversy) and will also involve some complex theorycrafting and meta-theorying. (which will raise controversy)

Just consult metabattle.com. Asking the forums for a opinion about diversity is asking for trouble, especially since the forum has a really high concentration of bitter veteran players that will probably feed you a extremely dystopian view of diversity while also kicking up needless arguments.

No offense but this is not helpful at all, I do not need max optimal so I do not trust metabattle and people hardly update it anymore from what I hear, anyways stop trying to blame me here I am asking because I invest my precious time into a game, I want build diversity that is fairly effective it is that simple. If anyone is adding to the problem here its your attitude and reply here, your the only one being negative if you do not like my question then why did you even answer?

I may be giving this shot with the recent update, I am interested in my guardian, elementalist, necromancer, and mesmer how is the build diversity for raiding, pvp, and wvw after the changes? I looked into them but it did not tell me much, I know some classes seem to be still falling behind.

Thanks everyone.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Ryou.2398:

Why do people always make changes like this to be more important then things in the core game? It seems kind of like an entitled attitude and nitpicking at this point.

I’m pretty sure no one said this needs to be fixed right away, before any other issues are addressed. They’re just making a suggestion.

But the problem is people make these kinds of suggestions over everything else they hardly ever talk about the real issues.

Why do people always make changes like this to be more important then things in the core game? It seems kind of like an entitled attitude and nitpicking at this point.

So Fuzzy Pop.1384:

I don’t get it. This game has always catered to casuals. The hard core commutnity should thank their lucky stars that Anet finally decided to throw them a bone with raids. I mean, if your the type of person who likes difficult content, why did you ever start playing GW2? Has it ever pretended to be anything but casual (correct me if I’m wrong, I only started playing 2 years ago)? It’s like you decided to eat salad but keep expecting it to turn into a steak. I REALLY hate having to say this (and it’s been said a million times elsewhere) but, if you want more of a challenge, play something else. You got raids. Don’t ask Anet to turn open world PVE (they won’t) into what casuals will find to be a massive, unfun pain in the kitten .

Where was it stated this is for casuals only? Do you even know what casual means? It does not mean easy, and hardcore does not mean challenging you people need to grow thicker skin or something if you honestly think it is hardcore. Anyways guild wars 2 tries to appeal to a wide audience not just one and you need to get over that raids are challenging.

Yep it’s clear the route they are going now, I’m moving to eso, I may come back to do hot some day but I doubt I’ll ever get back info this one, when it seems like devs don’t care as much j about a game anymore then the players feel it to, we don’t feel like playing any more. Maybe I’ll move go guild wars 3 if they do better but they are getting a bad rap lately.

I know some still care about the game though so let’s hope the others can find some passion in their hearts for continuing a game legacy.

Ryou.2398:

Rodzynald.5897:

I do not mean to be rude but I don’t share it. Most of this builds power lies in its secrecy.
A bunch of my legendary guildmates (all seasons thus far they keep their divs) told me that it could went meta but I don’t want it to be like that. If someone would find out, I’d be forced to change the whole build or just reroll to some other class and that I won’t do because I am a righteousfag who always and only plays Guardians/Paladins/Crusaders etc…

I get what your saying and I agree but the customization of skills in this game aren’t deep enough for hidden builds, people test builds with 123, 123, and 123, passives easy I just don’t see how you can have a hidden build.

Rodzynald.5897:

I do not mean to be rude but I don’t share it. Most of this builds power lies in its secrecy.
A bunch of my legendary guildmates (all seasons thus far they keep their divs) told me that it could went meta but I don’t want it to be like that. If someone would find out, I’d be forced to change the whole build or just reroll to some other class and that I won’t do because I am a righteousfag who always and only plays Guardians/Paladins/Crusaders etc…

I get what your saying and I agree but the customization of skills in this game isn’t deep enough for hidden builds, people test builds with 123, 123, and 123, passives easy I just don’t see how you can have a hidden build.

I was considering rolling thief, im mostly interested in dare devil, but d/d is such an important weapon set id rather not play a thief after all.

Rodzynald.5897:

Bwah!
Hammer in spvp is G-L-O-R-I-O-U-S
I play my very own hammer build even before HoT and I am using it all the time. It is fairly powerful and the fact that there are like no guardians with such build, it is something new and hard to counter in certain spots because of lack of knowledge on how to fight it.
What I run is kind of a glass cannon but due to sustain, condi cleanse and enhanced shield of courage, I can withstand quite a harsh punishement and still dish out a considerable ammount of power damage, along with heavy CC capabilities, which is nice.
Even my guildies who do PvP all day/night long say that what I have done with my guardian is working surprisingly well. I even managed to hit diamond on my own (solo que most of the time and a handful of premades), though I didn’t have enough time to get to legendary.

Nice do you have a build you can share? Any good in wvw?

Ubik.8315:

People heard DH is OP now, so they’re giving it a try. Most of them are pretty inexperienced and have no idea what their new fotm can actually do.

I beat 3 other guards at once using a hambow build just yesterday…I think one was running old meditrapper, one was the new meditrappers with sw/focus and one was symbolic. All were pretty clueless. I’m sure it’ll die back in a couple weeks as these players either move on or git gud.

I dont see how anyone can use weapons like hammer in pvp, they are just to slow for it from my understanding, I may be wrong.

Topic basically saids it all or maybe a mix of burn/symbols?

What happened to burn dragon hunter guard? Are people using flame legion runes for that or something else?

Drussthelegend.2630:

Spartacus.3192:

the reason is because they got buffs/changes on weapons like scepter and mace that generally were not used in pvp so people want to see how they are. Also Sword was improved (well the 4 year old bugs/annoying stuff was fixed) so its understandable that players want to see how they are now. Guardian is actually fun now since there seems to actually be a varierty of builds that are interesting/fun at the moment.

Those buffs were not enough to make the population boom by 2 to 3 times. Or shouldnt have been. Its stoopid that I am getting 2 other guardians on my team in spvp half the time. I know the buffs. They were nice but not enough to turn a class that was close to the worst pvp class to anything more then middle of the rung. All its going to cause is complaints that are not grounded in fact. Guardians went from a D- spvp class to a C+ or B but the numbers of people playing them you would think they were A+. I’d like to keep the modest improvments we got not lose them because of delusional band wagon rollers. I mean we are back to the pvp forum being littered with complaints about traps and they werent even buffed.

I play pvp quite often and dont see the numbers of guardians you claim, I see way more necros, rangers, and mesmer then anything.

And actually allot of those weapons are viable in pvp now as well as some of the core builds.

Its amazing how people are still trying to claim ele is op lol, dont say that unless you truly know the class.

dogkat.4972:

Played a guardian as my main mostly focuses on WvW. Burned out on the game and took a 2 year break. When I came back.. guardian just didn’t seem the same and I didn’t want to level up DH so I used the level up for a Scrapper for PvPing for the last few months.

But after this last patch, I am playing a vanilla guardian in pvp (sword/scepter/shield) exclusively and am really enjoying it. Decent damage, decent survivability, buffing and rezzing teamates during the chaos of battle, and the heavy armor looks kick kitten … this type of play is why I chose Guardian in the first place; Thanks for the changes Anet and I hope you other guardians are happy with the changes also!

(BTW: I am not saying I am a great PvPer on this character or any character…)

People say go focus vs shield but I dont know, without valor doesnt seem all that worth it vs the dps the shield ability from focus gets.

Just a suggestion and not a complaint here, maybe the masteries need mini masteries in between with something a little more interesting, the masteries are cool but in the end they do come off kind of bland, they certainly are useful, I just think maybe some fun stuff can be thrown in between the harder ones to make it more rewarding.

And regardless of how casual you play, why would you want to max everything in a month? They will not keep you coming back in the end, most people will get bored with no incentive to continue playing and thats the truth, if all you have left to do is get legendaries trust me its not enough because thats all you end up doing and its way to grindy to do one thing for that amount of time for many people.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Ryou.2398:

Ok people do not read

Ryou.2398:

Nothing on the dev tracker and I follow it to see the plans for future updates, where is it then if they said it so recently?

Obtena.7952:

The quote I provided IN THIS THREAD wasn’t from launch .. it was from last week.

Obtena.7952:

Also, from an AMA with Dulfy:

What do you think of the idea of having PvP only include “DPS” builds? Also, where do you see Guardian in the future of PvP?

There has been debate here on the subject but it’s more along the line of what are ways we can speed up the game.
As for guardian I’ve always liked the feel of less mobility but high effectiveness that scales more with more people making them strong group fighters but I think with a lot of the changes the guardian’s ability to sustain compared to other professions has been a major issue causing them to be less effective and something we need to work on but it can come into conflict with speeding the game up so it’s a bit tricky.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Link to quote if anyone wants.

Ryou.2398:

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

mrauls.6519:

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Dev Thoughts on Guardian [July 27, 2016]

Thank you for the link, no wonder I didnt see it, it wasnt on this site but he actually does not say the class was designed to be less mobile is a trade off for effectiveness. So again when was this said? It doesnt state anything like that, not even close.

Obtena.7952:

The quote I provided IN THIS THREAD wasn’t from launch .. it was from last week.

Nothing on the dev tracker and I follow it to see the plans for future updates, where is it then if they said it so recently?

TheShniper.1852:

Im not a fan if hammer buy im also not a fan of being selfish when playing in a group. In high lvl fractals the almost perna protection saves your kitten . Sword sybols fury is sort of pointless in a group since fury comes easy. And about the same damage as hammer just makes hammer the better option. (retal doesnt matter because if your doing t4 fractals with no boon rip your already messing up.) i want other weapons to be good in group content, i really do but its just a matterof not cripling your party. And on a side not. Scepter is good dps but is probably only useful asyour main weapon in very specific situations. No real reason to use bow in pve any.ore it seems though. So maybe not so specific lol.

That depends if you actually need the protection though, depending on the group set up you may need more dps instead, and symbols from scepter and 1hsword seem like they are good sustained so far.

Obtena.7952:

Palador.2170:

Seera.5916:

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

What I’m disagreeing with is Obtena’s automatic dismissal of the idea simply because it’s being made in an attempt to open things up to everyone.

Obtena.7952:

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s not a goal worth working towards within reason. Nobody will ever make the “perfect” game, but every game developer tries to get as close as they can. Suggestions shouldn’t be dismissed just because they won’t be perfect.

That’s not why I dismissed the idea. There is little value in it. The complaint is that you have to DO something to ‘unlock’ XP being useful … in otherwords, people don’t want to do something to get something specific. I find that line of thinking … deplorable for any game. This isn’t choose your own adventure. It’s not a negotiation where you decide what you’re willing to do to get the things you want. it’s not ‘locked’ by anything but a person’s willingness to get something done.

Atleast we agree on this, but yea everyone he has a good point, this is an rpg after all, progression is key in most rpgs.

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Now back to guardians they have plenty of mobility options, the ele only gets a few as well so are you going to say anet saids they where meant to be more mobile in combat when they nearly have the same amount of in combat mobile options?

‘Plenty" … no one could discuss that even if they wanted to; it’s so vague and meaningless. I have no idea where you are going with your comparisons to Ele and Mesmers or how you arrived at the conclusions you made … you just say it like it’s truth.

I will just stick to my previous three points.

1. Guardian are designed to be less mobile; Anet told us so,. more than once. (I have posted one of these quotes in this very thread … in a reply to one of YOUR posts already .. .seems like proof is irrelevant to you anyways, even if it does exist)
2. Even though Guardians have ‘plenty’ of mobility options (according to you, whatever that means), this does not contradict Anet’s intention that Guardian have low mobility
3. I don’t think it’s a stretch that the way they have accomplished this is to deny the class the 25% RS buff

I can’t see anything you have said in your post that disputes any of those points. I will leave it at that.

Your just jumping to assumptions you never provided proof to me in other threads, just your opinions which is fine, I do agree with you on certain things. And it still does not matter anyways considering classes have changed allot since launch, in any mmorpg classes can change, I accepted this why cant you?

Im not saying its a contradiction what im saying is nearly every class has better speed buffs therefor its not set in stone regardless just because you say they said this, doesnt mean they cannot have better outside of combat movement speed options, in fact ive never seen them claim they where never going to or it went against the design.

Obtena.7952:

There is nothing confusing: Playing a Guardian does not allow a person to determine how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian mobility, or any other class for that matter. Anet told us Guardians are intentionally designed to have lower mobility. Those are not disputable facts.

If you know what I am trying to say, then why are you telling me I don’t make sense? Either you get it … or you don’t. Let’s stick to the topic here.

Ryou.2398:

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

1. They are designed to be less mobile; Anet told us so. This is a relative comparison.
2. Even though Guardians HAVE some mobility options, this does not contradict Anet’s intention that Guardian have low mobility (You are taking an absolute observation and making a relative conclusion from it … bad bad)
3. I don’t think it’s a stretch that the way they have accomplished this is to deny the class the 25% RS buff.

I don’t know … maybe you don’t associate speed with mobility; I think it is because it’s related to how your character moves … mobility. I really don’t get what your intention is in this thread .. similar to other threads I’ve seen you post in. I guess you think Guardians are fine where they are at because they have plenty of mobility options?

We are sticking on topic just fine, your using your typical trying to make me look wrong tactics as ive seen you do with multiple others. This goes back to my point about you being more direct.

Again with your constant defending nonsense, anyways the majority agree guardians need an outside option for mobility besides what we have. And where is the proof that anet actually stated this and said it was official? And last I checked it doesnt matter what classes start in an mmorpg, ive seen class describtions change before and unless there is actually a class describtion that states guardians are less mobile then other classes then there is no real reason something like this cannot change.

Before I was talking about outside of movement speed until someone brought up how guardians are not mobile in combat as well. The reason you dont get my intention is because you only read this one post of mine in this thread.

I also made it clear several times of the original argument about guardians being less mobile in combat, and I wasnt even talking to you before, you replied to me yet again in another thread going off on the deep end yet again. If your going to continue to try to argue with me in every post I make then send me a private message instead of bothering everyone else with your issue with me.

Now back to guardians they have plenty of mobility options, the ele only gets a few as well so are you going to say anet saids they where meant to be more mobile in combat when they nearly have the same amount of in combat mobile options?

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

This logic fails you … (even if) Guardians are more mobile than Mesmer, they are indeed designed to be less mobile, generally, than other classes and I believe Anet has hit that target, based on playing and watching the QQ on the forums.

I’m also certain that someone playing Guardian or not has little to do with if they know how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian. I’ve thousands of hours on Guardian … I got no clue if Mesmer is more or less mobile than Guardian. Why would I or anyone know this based on how much they have played Guardian? There is no correlation there.

I actually do play a mesmer so nice try dude, also your not making any sense my point is guardian is clearly designed to be mobile in combat, just because other classes have disengage tools doesnt mean the guardian isnt mobile in combat.

I didn’t say you don’t play a mesmer, I said it was nonsense to accuse someone of not knowing what a mesmer’s mobility is compared to a Guardian based playing a Guardian. I also didn’t claim that Guardians aren’t designed for mobility because other classes have disengage tools. I said Anet has intentionally designed Guardians with less mobility than other classes. It would be appreciated that if you want to have a discussion with people, you don’t make up things they said or try to read between the lines. What I said still stands.

I know what your trying to say and as usual your trying to twist things as you usually do when someone disagrees with you, your trying to confuse things and make it look like you where saying something else. Maybe you shoukd be more direct instead of trying to play word games, I’m not here to read in between the lines with you.

Aeolus.3615:

Didnt try sword yet… sword blink counts as well as mobility, once i fought a DH with GS/and sword focus, we had arround 3 or 4 players running trying to catch it, altough we lacked hard CC at that momment, pretty cool build.

Care to share the burn build??

Sure, its actually an older core build but ive changed a few things, im currently trying other runes then the one suggested from the actual build, like flame legion or other burning one, I forget the name. Then using sigils of battle instead of the poison ones and one or two traits to my own style.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Burst_Burning

I have been testing it in pvp so far and not wvw yet and its been working out quite well actually, people have a hek of a time taking me down and im usually at the top. I did try switching out valor for zeal and it seemed decent but I did far better with valor. I also think a honor/zeal/radiance build might work as well but I havent tested it out yet.

The reason im considering honor is mostly because you can make the symbols larger, and zeal deals more damage to enemies in your symbols, my guess is using symbols from scepter and 1h sword that may be really good sustained as it is already decent without them.

Now I know dragonhunter usually is stronger but maybe the core builds are up there with it.

Facepalm its not dragon hunter that got buffed lol, not really. All I got to say is not one class is meant to be strong against all classes learn to cordinate teams, join a guild that pvps.

If anything dh is back in line after it got nerfed a bit to much before.

Aeolus.3615:

Ryou, besides DH/meditrapper, mobility on combat is really slowpoked, arround simbol range.
Mesmers are much more free to move while fighthing, guards have more pigeonholing builds as point/place holders, that cuts the movements.

Well dragonhunters dont need allot of mobility anyways, but my main point was guardians where designed with plenty of in combat mobility options. In case you didnt notice burn guards and 1h sword in general are much better since the patch we arent so pigeonheld anymore.

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

This logic fails you … (even if) Guardians are more mobile than Mesmer, they are indeed designed to be less mobile, generally, than other classes and I believe Anet has hit that target, based on playing and watching the QQ on the forums.

I’m also certain that someone playing Guardian or not has little to do with if they know how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian. I’ve thousands of hours on Guardian … I got no clue if Mesmer is more or less mobile than Guardian. Why would I or anyone know this based on how much they have played Guardian? There is no correlation there.

I actually do play a mesmer so nice try dude, also your not making any sense my point is guardian is clearly designed to be mobile in combat, just because other classes have disengage tools doesnt mean the guardian isnt mobile in combat.

cranos.5913:

Ryou.2398:

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

lolwat

Chrono has passive minor trait 25% movement speed, blink, sword 3, powerful group wide mobility in the form of portal which completely changes up pvp gameplay… Compared to a guardians sword blink and JI.

k then

Ok people do not read I said in combat im not talking about outside of movement speed, your talking about 2 abilities guard has 3 mobile abilities between weapons and utility.

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

Zelulose.8695:

Ya revamped DH is a bit too strong right now. But dont forget Revanent. They have blocks evades energy regen and perma protection/regeneration if they feel like it. They could use some toning down as they already have 2 healing skills to boot.

Dh didnt get revamped.

Arcaedus.7290:

I honestly don’t have mobility problems between GS 3 (or sword 2), f2, renewed focus for another f2, and JI. Ranged attacks on longbow or scepter + f1 pull (and now cripple) really help me to keep up with foes, so I don’t struggle in 1v1 or skirmish situations either.

Main reason I think guards should receive +25% movement speed is not to balance us in pvp. We’re fine there imo. But the +25% ms would be a huge qol for all guardians when not in combat! We could equip a trait for +25% ms, then when getting closer to our intended destination, switch out the trait. It could even be attached to unscathed contender (since the trait becomes nearly useless in combat)! Pretty please, ANet, consider giving guardians that +25% ms? It’s not so we can be spoiled and “keep up” with others, but rather so we can move around outside of combat and not feel so slow.

The biggest issue is wvw, the maps are huge and its a pain to get around without a staff build.

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.