Guild Wars 2

Geiir.7603:

Sagar: I also play d/d and yes, it need shadow arts. P/D and d/p are the two sets that are benefiting most from shadow arts. It is the only two sets using stealth that people complain about. I do not want to remove shadow arts, and I am not sure what can be done….

My only idea is to make #5 a smoke field where the projectile gives you stealth if it connects (much like Rangers longbow #3). It adds counter play and prevents the thief from chaining stealth to regen all its hp and remove all conditions.

I still think it is fine as is. It is only in combination with Shadow Arts that it is op. I don’t know what they can do, but destroying a good set is not the way to go imo.

The projectile would have to be a leap finisher which doesn’t make the point but I partially get the point but also it is still smoke combo field there is nothing stoping HS through it. I understant it might sound frustrating not having Backstab on D/P but look again at my propostions the damage loss is made up through improve Shadow Shot,new unload+ improve darkfield BP and maybe if Acro is reworked it might used instead of Trickery( I am still waiting for Pain Response to be change to remove 1 condition on succesful evade 8 sec CD) why does no one goes into Deadly Arts?

Stealth is a partial way of evading conditions but as a burst spec D/P takes longer to kill than a great D/D or decent S/D I’m proposing making the spec less stacking and more active defense(life siphon+blind) and offense. Btw have you tried using 6 6 2 0 0 with Shadow Embrace+Revealed Training?

Let’s all remember that the thief skill bar is not here yet.

Geiir.7603:

Sagat.3285:

Geiir.7603:

apocom.3172:

Geiir.7603:

First of all: Dagger/Pistol is perfectly fine as it is. The problem are Shadow Arts, and one trait particularly; Infusion of Shadows. It is the only trait that makes this set work, because it makes it possible to chain 4 Heartseekers in one field. Literally no other build use that trait.

Nope, did not work anymore. You have to trait in Trickery for that.

Exactly! If you put points into trickery to get extra initiative then you lose points in either critical strikes or shadow arts. Any thief that want to kill people with d/p need critical strikes, so it is either survivability through stealth or extra initiative with steal buffs.

My point is that Shadow Arts is the problem, not d/p. It may be one of the best balanced sets for dueling in the game – don’t ruin it by changing it when the problem isn’t with the set. Look at p/d condition. The only reason that set work as good as it does is because of the constant restealthing that heals, blinds and remove conditions. What needs to change is SA. What they have to do I do not know, but it is the only reason thief are such a strong roamer with stealth builds.

I am pretty no D/P uses both SA and Trickery but from your points of view both are the problem. All D/P users go x 6 6 x x or x 6 x x 6 so why say either of them you know what you are getting when investing in a defense or initiative improvement trait line.

A change in Infusion of Shadow is very unlikely to happen because it is a defensive trait line and the thief best defense is initiative stealth can be related to all builds it’s almost a signature of thief. The same for Trickery it’s made to strengthen initiative and steal and don’t forget it is a condition damage bar widely use by condi thieves who make a better use of it then burst.

So why is no one saying Critical Strikes or just admit that the D/P might be the problem? Is it so wrong for a thief to use it’s defensive trait lines Acro get a similar but less popular hate its like sustain shouldn’t be allowed on thief or like some say : Blind him man use your set no traits WTH is it with that? I’m sorry if you think that make better assasins(not thieves) but we are not forced to be class canon the same way guard are not forced to be healers and necros conditioners.

How many d/p trickery thieves do you encounter in WvW? I am one of them, and that build has very little sustain. The only thing that keeps it going are the blinds. I use stealth only for repositioning, escaping or a backstab. If pressured by conditions or heavy damage I will die pretty fast or I’ll have to gtfo.

What is the main thing people complain about when fighting a thief? Stealth. Argument’s they make? Stealth remove conditions, heal and blinds. Uhh, that isn’t stealth, it is the Shadow Arts trait line.

When I run trickery people does not get kittened and harass me in chat afterwards, because I doesn’t stealth and return at full hp and without conditions.

Are Dagger/Pistol op? Yes, against new players that doesn’t know how to fight that set. New players doesn’t know what to expect and therefore do not know what to interrupt. Seasoned players have no problem countering me on d/p. It is the SA trait line they complain about.

So are you saying there should be no cleansing,healing.. on thief? Go play D/D and come back and tell me how you did without SA and I can assure people that everyone complain about SA+D/P combo even tough the best you could do is to run in the opposite direction until the stealth is over THAT WORKS better than staying there.

Who here doesn’t know how to counter a x/D SA thief that CnD is major weakness and strength at the same time : miss you are most likely half-dead hit still need positioning (D/D) some stacks for a while (P/D). And who here think thief should all play without sustain if you do then they just to make all guard healer,all ele celestial,all necro conditioners,all engi turrets if you follow this assasin mindset.

Personal question: If you could be remove stealth from thief what could possibly be a decent mechanism worth of investing since Acro is not the best for regen or cleansing? Keep in mind all classes should have access to sustain.

Geiir.7603:

apocom.3172:

Geiir.7603:

First of all: Dagger/Pistol is perfectly fine as it is. The problem are Shadow Arts, and one trait particularly; Infusion of Shadows. It is the only trait that makes this set work, because it makes it possible to chain 4 Heartseekers in one field. Literally no other build use that trait.

Nope, did not work anymore. You have to trait in Trickery for that.

Exactly! If you put points into trickery to get extra initiative then you lose points in either critical strikes or shadow arts. Any thief that want to kill people with d/p need critical strikes, so it is either survivability through stealth or extra initiative with steal buffs.

My point is that Shadow Arts is the problem, not d/p. It may be one of the best balanced sets for dueling in the game – don’t ruin it by changing it when the problem isn’t with the set. Look at p/d condition. The only reason that set work as good as it does is because of the constant restealthing that heals, blinds and remove conditions. What needs to change is SA. What they have to do I do not know, but it is the only reason thief are such a strong roamer with stealth builds.

I am pretty no D/P uses both SA and Trickery but from your points of view both are the problem. All D/P users go x 6 6 x x or x 6 x x 6 so why say either of them you know what you are getting when investing in a defense or initiative improvement trait line.

A change in Infusion of Shadow is very unlikely to happen because it is a defensive trait line and the thief best defense is initiative stealth can be related to all builds it’s almost a signature of thief. The same for Trickery it’s made to strengthen initiative and steal and don’t forget it is a condition damage bar widely use by condi thieves who make a better use of it then burst.

So why is no one saying Critical Strikes or just admit that the D/P might be the problem? Is it so wrong for a thief to use it’s defensive trait lines Acro get a similar but less popular hate its like sustain shouldn’t be allowed on thief or like some say : Blind him man use your set no traits WTH is it with that? I’m sorry if you think that make better assasins(not thieves) but we are not forced to be class canon the same way guard are not forced to be healers and necros conditioners.

EvilSardine.9635:

That apothecary build using the guard utility for perma regen is straight up broken in my opinion and needs to be nerfed. It’s completely unkillable in a duel and pretty much the only two outcomes are that you die or you keep stalemating the fight somehow but you’ll never win. Perma regen, a lot of evades, troll ungent, protection, with a stupid amount of condi damage.

It’s comedy running this build by the way. You can 1v3 so easily and if anything goes south you just casually retreat and they can’t stop you.

On p/d thief I usually kill the pet first then my conditions end up killing them since my condition damage and vitality are higher even with perm regen poison does it’s job and you can steal a good amount for yourself. The same is possible for other condition users especially necro and engi but for a non-condition user I got nothing toughness+healing is great counter to power but 1v3 I don’t believe it.

Edit: It is a very melee/mid-range build ranged dps should end up winning no matter how long it takes just don’t let him hit you.

Yeah PU kill so fast eh? What CLASS and BUILD are you playing eh? Did you build to counter PU or to play what you like or both eh?

Mayama.1854:

Maugetarr.6823:

Stealth attacks however are a class mechanic as no other class gets a rollover while in stealth. While Stealth itself isn’t a class mechanic, other class mechanics and traits are woven into it.

Yes its part of the class concept but it is not exclusive, on my mesmer 1v1 roaming spec Im usually in stealth half of the fight and can reset with it when I want, like a thief. You can also build evade/dodge centred thieves too. So its not the only approach you can take to the class.

But should that mean stealth should be inferior? I can’t see p/d,d/d and d/p really working with Acro if changes aren’t made s/d however can choose to go SA or Acro yes I fought SA S/D.

-BP becomes dark field,increases in damage,lesser initiative cost
-Unload become off-hand pistol #4
-Unload is replace by a pistol version of Flanking Strike
-Shadow Shot increase in damage,lesser initiative cost,dagger hit dazes for 1/2 sec
-Last refuge is replaced by 1-sec revealed APPLIED TO YOU trait.

That should end whining from both sides and rumors about stealth being broken or not competitive. Choosing what trait line should be the best is a selfish and unhealthy mindset because no trait line should be a to go to I’m talking about PU and SA if you don’t like them doesn’t mean you have to flame and hate people using them it’s a waste of time it inspires them to use it more duh.

Duels and tpvp is place of refugees hiding from the freedom of builds in WWW and non-zerker builds.

What you enjoy playing may not be the best against other specs that is a known fact that most people refuse to admit ex: complaining about condition damage on engineer while they die from other conditioners and especially necros is laughable since the game is not supposed to be only about your build. Loving what you play doesn’t mean it’s supposed it will save you from everything if it did that would be broken.

Until pve allows freedom of build I’m fine with WWW but from my point of view the game might end up seperated glass zerker in pve and condi tank in www or maybe it was meant to be like that since the beginning. WWW means one : The harder you player the more rewarding get buffs,food,wide variety of gear,runes,sigils and if that’s too hard for you pvp should be your friend because many set,sigils and runes are not available there still complaining go to pve and blow some steam it might help since the engineer condition damage and stealth traits are top builds over there.

What’s strong in WWW is usually hated because it killed you? How effective is it in pvp or pve?

In a thread I created proposition of turning BP into dark field were made and to not mess up the sets those too as well:
-Unload replace Head Shot on #4 pistol off-hand with reduction on initiative cost
-Unload is replaced by a pistol version of flanking strike possibly applying cripple
-Shadow Shot and BP damage increase and reduction of initiative cost but maintain the blind effects

No need to change SA other than Last Refuge which I proposed to changed to -1 sec revealed APPLIED TO YOU.

Edit: that 1-sec is all that is needed to balance out the possible upcoming revealed skills on all classes no need to buff SA or anything.

I’m 98.7% sure spirit weapons will be improved all AI will end up being competitive from turret engineer to ranger’s pet at last.

Elitist.8701:

There is ZERO percent chance to beat a turret engi as a thief. NONE. Not with short bow, not with some playstyle change, you CANNOT win. It’s like Necro vs Engi, engi always loses. You can live for 8 seconds on point if you slot daggerstorm, but then you waste an elite just for a small poke. If a turret engi is on a point, dont even try to 1v1. Let him camp and 4v5 and snowball the other points. Turret engi rotates slowly so if he does move off point it’s an easy backcap.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

I just said I beat them with P/D and I see D/D doing a better job then other spec >.> sure it depends on what amulet but not zero chance lol those sets counter AI so good. That’s one of the situations where I am pround of seeing SA in pvp action.

And that’s a zerker S/D doesn’t counter eh?

Edit: Just because you can’t cap in stealth doesn’t mean 0 thieves will use SA in pvp lol I’m dying over this zero chance against turret engi on thief.

It depends on what engineer you are fighting some are soldier,rabid or zerk and still have turrets. There is no point of melee fighting turrets stick to SB in your case but to be honest the few pvp SA P/D and D/D thieves do well since AI helps with CnD and the stealth attack is burst and engi are low condition removers.

5 turret engineers? That’s the a fight I don’t want to be in it’s like having 5 consecration tank guard = you are not getting that cap.

Edit: Attack them out of point,force them to leave turrets behind or hope they are not coordinated engineers.

Delta Blues.8507:

DeceiverX.8361:

Anyone who insists that any other thief weaponset is better than D/P has clearly never played the other weaponsets.

D/P is the most frustrating, easiest, face-rolliest, and overall scrubby build in the entire game. Yep, I think hambow warrior takes more skill, has more counters, and is generally more difficult to play than D/P thief. D/P blind-stealth spam is a downright insult to a lot of this game’s mechanics and makes thieves appear way stronger than they appear to be when played with other sets.

Best thing you can do is challenge them to use D/D if they think they’re good at dagger mainhand and/or just ignore them.

Yep. I think that P/D is even cheesiest though. Seriously you can condi burst anyone in no time at all and you almost don’t even need to get in melee range

No melee means no Cnd+no Sneak attack +no SA traits usage= noob P/D please make sure you fight at least a decent one I hope that one didn’t kill you >.>

I rather have a secondary profession not from another trainer I really don’t like the idea of a kill shot war having access to stealth people would abuse of the mix way too much it would be a battle of the cheapest.

We just need traits to sync in better with the spec and stats given.

I’m just going to say stealth is stronger in team killing than S/D in no conquest
-They are less likely to take damage
-BP counter melee burst
-If traited with SA it will survive longer
-Free backstab against mainly other zerkers is very strong
-Steath can be given to allies like mentioned

I never played S/D but the ones I see don’t last long when focused on in team fights they either use SR,CnD or flee using SB so to me S/D is inferior in those situations and most of the “zerg taker thieves” are using SA. Most people hate all thieves so hate comes with the class S/D or not so to me your team should have focused on bursting or cc the thief while revealed,interrupt the BP+HS combo.

Swagg.9236:

Thief is a brain-dead assassin-style class that serves to hard-counter the dedicated healer. Without the dedicated healer, the thief just moves about the field and murders people who are looking in the other direction or just murders people in general because that’s what they are designed to do and there isn’t a player on any team that is designed to prevent this. It doesn’t belong, but anet put it into GW2 anyway because edgy teens enjoy playing the ninja/rogue class in MMOs.

It has never been so much a matter of “Thief is overpowered” as it has been “Thief has no reason to be in GW2 at all by virtue of basic class-centric (hard-counter) balance logic.” Since GW2 is balanced around hard-counters (not that that’s a good thing; it’s actually a very lazy and uninspired balance philosophy), it makes no sense to let thief just dangle out there as a hard-counter class despite the fact that the mechanic which the thief is meant to hard-counter doesn’t actually exist in GW2 in any real way.

The thief can counter spamming,zerging,ranged glass canon AKA mainly pew pew ranger,can counter AI AKA MM,turrets,spirit weapons,ranger pet…..,can counter sneaky or mobile glass canon AKA GS war,Fresh Air ele,zerker engi using smoke field for stealth….,stolen skills can be used based on situation to reflect,block/stability(plasma)…counter healers thief has a very good poison application and so….

Saying that there is no mechanic that thief is meant to counter is a very bold and false statement the same for GW2 being balanced around hard counters. In a more common way you could say thief counter players of lower experience especially if they start panicking.

-Lich has counter play remove stability and cc,stealth even block,immunity,leap skills can allow you to retreat or fight depending on situation
-DS may be strong against other zerkers not the others specs wish also exist the game is not made of zerkers
-Mesmer GS AA the same as DS
-Diamond Skin is countered by carrion,dps or team fights
-Guard is supposed to provide the best sustain in game traited
-War have poor condition application with uncertain confusion and a evadable torment bleed and burn are weaker then other conditions specs.
-There is no better class to have better endurance regen then thief other than engi or necro if they change some stuff.
-Backstab can be countered by smart play D/D keep moving while AA D/P will most likely have longer fight and use more initiative.
-Mesmer burst is predictable especially with S/x

So again list of what you don’t like troll?

List of what you don’t like mmm troll?

loseridoit.2756:

Kitt.2567:

2, stack speed by its intensity up to 50%, not duration.

2 is impossible because the max speed buff is 33% for all classes and rune combinations

Just wanna say thief moves 50% faster while in stealth traited.

Edit: ele and engi can run at 100% or double speed traited

So you have a way to replace the whole SA trait line with a not “broken” defense and healing system? The game is not focused around pvp go www then stealth shows to be more efficient and other builds as well cough cough tank.. thus come the hatred from the glass canon community.

Stating that stealth is not fun is a biased opinion nothing forces me to have glass thief all specs should be encouraged.

XPGAMER.7324:

Sagat.3285:

XPGAMER.7324:

RyuDragnier.9476:

XPGAMER.7324:

Just remember friends, SA is terrible, anyone who uses SA is a baddie. Ever. Nope, no good players use SA, its a crutch trait line for unskillful play dont ya know >:

And it doesn’t matter if you spend most of your time with S/D evading attacks and just trolling enemies outside of stealth and rarely enter, you’re still a baddie if you use SA. Why? We don’t make the rules, we enforce them.

They should doccument a list of “rules” so I can play my game according to how others would like me to without being considered cheese.

So you don’t use SA because others call it cheese #peerpressure

They don’t “call it cheese”, they explain with various facts and logics why it is indeed cheese, and their just informing others…

Logic is different for everyone and with the possibility of every class getting a revealed skill I sense a “noob” switch from SA to S/D leaving only the good ones behind using that spec let the others decide what they like.

Everything is cheese if it ANNOYS them condi tanks,turrets,celestial ele or warrior… basically if you are tankier than a zerker and do +50% of their damage and can create a long fight you are"cheese" it’s already enough pve meta is zerker leave the freedom of builds alone in www and partially pvp.

Edit: x 6 6 x x builds on thief don’t get love in pvp or pve should we “hate” them in www too? Do you have an idea to replace the whole SA trait line?

dylan.5409:

In my opinion, all of the traits that improve initiative regen should be removed and Chill in particular should reduce initiative regen by 66%. What you replace them with I have no idea. I’d start with something that removes chill on dodge though or reduces the effectiveness of chill by 50%.

Ele’s have a similar trait (that no one takes); but Its a good idea. Since chill affects attunements and gives ele’s an exceptionally hard time (arguably chill affects this proff the most , yet they are still in the meta), there’s no reason it shoudn’t affect initiative imo

[/quote]
All classes have traits to improve their mechanic so initiative regen traits will never be removed. If I follow your logic chill should affect adreline and lifeforce too but everyone should wait until thief update.

XPGAMER.7324:

RyuDragnier.9476:

XPGAMER.7324:

Just remember friends, SA is terrible, anyone who uses SA is a baddie. Ever. Nope, no good players use SA, its a crutch trait line for unskillful play dont ya know >:

And it doesn’t matter if you spend most of your time with S/D evading attacks and just trolling enemies outside of stealth and rarely enter, you’re still a baddie if you use SA. Why? We don’t make the rules, we enforce them.

They should doccument a list of “rules” so I can play my game according to how others would like me to without being considered cheese.

So you don’t use SA because others call it cheese #peerpressure

Prysin.8542:

the bunker meta is not directly because of thieves, it is because it takes EFFORT to play a glass build. you have to pay attention, not just afk on node. Thieves do push bad players into this sort of role, however the bad players then resist good players on other toons with ease, forcing good players to bunker down to kill the bunkers.

As to those claiming “thief is the only class able to zerk in PvP”. No they are not. Longbow rangers (you need skill to play glassbow, i know, it’s insane that you should need skill to play a GW2 build) will easily kill even a good thief, however like with every darn encounter there is between thief and ranger (regardless of builds) first to land a hit is 90% sure to be the victor.

All glass zerkers are sneaky I fought this zerker engi using smoke combo field to stealth and surprise me with burst. That was unexpected but all glass zerker should be creative even pew pew or disengage.

Other classes rarely use endurance regen builds but many thieves uses it so they got to go….

It wouldn’t make since if other classes have more endurance regen then thief
-War is heavy armor and has better sustain and actual damage on dodge
-Guard heal on dodge
-Ranger gains protection
-Engineer maybe (no one tried)
-Mesmer would have too many illusions popping up(possible with endurance regen on heal+mantra)
-Ele has too many skills on dodge and too many boons(no one tried going endurance regen with arcane skills)
-I got nothing for necro

Start with how much you want you are here to duel not please others.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Mayama, that is the offset for being glassy. if you are glassy, you literally always have to expect being nuked by other glassy builds. The problem in this game isnt the power creep, but the reason why it is needed. We have a Meta where even guardians (!) start to decide to go condition tank instead of bursty medi. Thus, power based specs need all the firepwower they can get, and ever since the change to %critdamage, exactly that was lacking. The change to air / fire sigils just brought back the firepower power specs had and should have maintained.

If anything, something must be done about the way conditions work. A condition tank will always do almost the same damage as a full berserker – while his damage has various effects instead of just taking life away, and completely ignores armor.

Only then nerfing the so called power creepwould be justified. But the amount of tanks and especially condition tanks is out of hand, thus power creep is nonexistant.

I would love playing condition freely in pve but personally power or zerker are the best for pve and zerging the amout of condition tank is reflective of them not having an equal role in pve. People complaining or not liking tanks in www or pvp should look at their numbers in pve.

On topic not all thieves are glassy or weak out of stealth and we have yet to see our changes.

Edit: You will most likely not see usage of celestial stats in pve so far from my point of view pve is glass zerker meta and www is condition tank meta.

Can we seriously all wait after thief skill bar and leave the whining threads dead until then and I am pretty sure Dire thieves exist in well in WWW and SB is always equipped no matter what thief.

Let’s just say some zerkers might have a problem with the spec but the game is not only zerker at least pvp and www wise. Let’s leave this thread dead until the patch.

style.6173:

As I posted in another forum, you need to understand the way ANET thinks.

Community: We hate AI in PvP. Get rid of it.
ANET: Ok, let’s make AI even stronger.

With that mindset, I fully expect a buff to spirit weapons.

How funny would it be seeing it at the level of turrets or both on a team lol.

SunnyLane.9386:

Steal is op, sure it is.
But s/d thief is not just about steal, u have initiative all the time, teleports, ilfiltrator’s strike, infiltrator’s signet, cloak and dagger, flanking strike, shadow refuge, infiltrator’s arrow, withdraw, signet of agility, feline grace, vigorous recovery, fluid strikes, kleptomaniac, preparedness, spam evades (u dont even need to think when to evade, just hit evade button all the time and its ok), and hit like 5k all the time cause u have sigil air/fire, and im not even mention trickery line and the fact that when u switch to shortbow u have energy sigil.
Now, how can you say this is not op?

By “this” you mean the setup or thief?

Yeah other classes don’t have "OP " setup zerker or not.

That’s the role of the class to reset if anything goes wrong it was build for that because of the initiative system. Most of the thieves will have utilities for resetting the fight (SR,Shadowstep…) and the damage comes from set,gear and traits because usually you’re screwed if you don’t have a way to reset. What good thief doesn’t have something to reset?I can definitely see my self using SB more now since every class might get 6 sec revealed skill but no one better complain about the resetting in those future times.

It’s not a higher chance of winning it’s doing what your foe can’t let me explain : this whole zerker thing is to kill your foe first by building high damage output for so called high risk high reward but any thief with a brain know other zerkers will usually not have a way to regain the lost health or endurance that’s the window other zerkers forgot they have you dot have sustain for that if the thieves builds out full damage no resetting the same thing would happen vs reset thief.

If you are not constantly hitting them and not healing or buffing while not attacking you give them advantage that why war is good Healing Signet+Adrenal Health keeps working when then that thief is resetting or when the war is blocking or uses a stance. You created a window for them and they like it zerker or not.

Valtarius.8671:

Sagat.3285:

Valtarius.8671:

I dont get the issue. thieves are already good even with the many nerfs you had. suck it up and continue eating other zerkers for breakfast, lunch and dinner because why go any other class specced for zerker when a theif can just instagib the other zerkers no problem. Quit your qq’ing you theives. Its not like revealed has ever been a problem anyway when you can just run away and wait for it, and go back to hiding and backstabbing, flanking strike or pistol whip the enemy to death

Strong hate why don’t you play thief then?

I do play one FYI, do you?
I’m just saying how many the thieves QQ over the smallest thing that’s not even a major issue. A high skilled thief versus another equally skilled zerker class has a higher chance of winning. The class has so many ways to save themselves and reset fights. Plus a great damage output. You can’t deny how much utility this class has at their disposal.

That’s the role of the class to reset if anything goes wrong it was build for that because of the initiative system. Most of the thieves will have utilities for resetting the fight (SR,Shadowstep…) and the damage comes from set,gear and traits because usually you’re screwed if you don’t have a way to reset. What good thief doesn’t have something to reset?I can definitely see my self using SB more now since every class might get 6 sec revealed skill but no one better complain about the resetting in those future times.

It’s not a higher chance of winning it’s doing what your foe can’t let me explain : this whole zerker thing is to kill your foe first by building high damage output for so called high risk high reward but any thief with a brain know other zerkers will usually not have a way to regain the lost health or endurance that’s the window other zerkers forgot they have you dot have sustain for that if the thieves builds out full damage no resetting the same thing would happen vs reset thief.

If you are not constantly hitting them and not healing or buffing while not attacking you give them advantage that why war is good Healing Signet+Adrenal Health keeps working when then that thief is resetting or when the war is blocking or uses a stance. You created a window for them and they like it zerker or not.

unlucky.9285:

im fine with classes being able to evade for days but only if they cant do damage at the same time

after all its a “defensive” mechanism not a ha ha ha ha ha you cant do anything to me while I can hit you trololololololol mechanism right?

There are many traits for on dodge providing damage or defense but in case those are irrelevant S/D ranger,upcoming GS ranger,mesmer Blurred Frenzy and Distortion…. allow attack while evading zerker or not. I’m pretty sure you don’t complain about vigor on crit or trait that give endurance regen like on toolbelt skills use,burst skills….

Having faster endurance regen doesn’t mean the whole build is about it they just get eough to apply more pressure and build their damage somewhere else zerker or not. What did you wasted your endurance on vs who mmm???

#thiefnerfthread

Valtarius.8671:

I dont get the issue. thieves are already good even with the many nerfs you had. suck it up and continue eating other zerkers for breakfast, lunch and dinner because why go any other class specced for zerker when a theif can just instagib the other zerkers no problem. Quit your qq’ing you theives. Its not like revealed has ever been a problem anyway when you can just run away and wait for it, and go back to hiding and backstabbing, flanking strike or pistol whip the enemy to death

Strong hate why don’t you play thief then?

T raw.4658:

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

If he decide to use it he’s weaker to other classes it’s a trade off. It’s not great news for you but other classes yes all builds sacrifice something for another.

LunarNacht.8913:

How often did you die in the last months because a ranger used Sic ’em?

I just want to know if I should stop going 2v1 in fear of possible 12 sec revealed I’m fine with 6.

Dagins.5163:

@Sagat
Fighting against an evade spammer is surely not fun, when your attacks totally randomly fail to connect because of a blind evade. These random things make people annoyed and create unwanted chaos.

Also, understand, that you can still invest into endurance regeneration and not be harshly penalized by this mechanic, since you are a skilled player who doesn’t spam… right?

Chaos is what is needed in a fight not burst you down first I admire S/D thieves,blind med guard,chill necro,fresh air ele,PU mesmers,the good p/d thieves and few others one because they can reach the player’s mind and make him panic. I only use to run evade regen when BA wasn’t available on thief the old 0 0 6 4 4 condi build.

Bunker and damage avoidance build are a challenge not that guy complaining because I’m not a normal and average zerker I wouldn’t have gain experience if all builds were damage in the face builds with no sustain. It feels good to win against one and not just farming noobs around.

Edit: Couldn’t forget the celestial ele (celestial war is a little awkward).

I do feel like this is directed to thieves…

However If I invest in endurance regen traits,food or gear I shouldn’t penalized for when I choose to use my dodge. If you can invest in full regen,dps,condition or whatever the same should go for endurance because I don’t tell when to use those and that it is not “fun”.

For everything you invest in you lose something else that you have to make up for somehow that is enough penalization…..

Bryzy.2719:

Auesis.7301:

Lifestealer.4910:

Good, thieves dominated the meta for too long. Hopefully anet makes them useless for the next two years to balance the time period all out.

That is not how game balance works. That’s just being a bitter little child.

You’re right, that is NOT how game balance works. So why have thieves been able to get away with such power for all this time?

Since beta, Rangers have had to sit back and swallow the dirt, dust and crap churned up by all the other professions while simultaneously being progessively trodden down bit by bit by Anet. So you know what? Maybe it is time for thieves to take a backseat for once. And mesmers. and warriors. and guardians. and every other kitten profession.

Wow and you are not worried that the future changes might make them so called"stronger" than the upcoming ranger again? Seriously you need to wait before making statement like that it’s only 2 classes what awaits next is unknow….

So I want to know if after upcoming changes will they still allow revealed to stack duration like 12 or + sec? I’m fine with the stealth counters but I need reliable answer this is very important to know in advance for thieves since most or all mesmer cloaking is not actual stealth.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Aza.2105:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Why would you want spirit weps to get buffed? Why would you WANT to play with ai? :/

Sadly its part of the game, you can’t change that. Because of that it would be bad design to leave a set up skills in disarray because the community doesn’t like AI.

They would either have to change the skills entirely which won’t happen or they can simply make them worth using with the mechanics they have now.

@Sagat

Ray of Judgment wouldn’t make much sense, unless they remove the casting time.

The shield is pretty good in some PvE situations, the hammer would already be pretty strong if it wouldn’t be for all the traits you would have to take to make it useful. The bow has the coolest animation guardian has (VALID POINT!).

Nobody likes mm necro, nobody likes turret engis, I don’t get why people want spirit wep guard to be a thing.

On a sidenote something that could be interesting would be making them work similar to conjures (which are kinda gimmicky aswell but still really strong in PvE); stuff you could pick up that gives you a new skillbar. The skins for the spirit weapons already exist as weapon skins anways.

But since that would require them to come up with a bunch of reworked traits and a new skillbars for each weapon, something like this probably won’t happen.

Please don’t say nobody when I just posted I find it interesting even if I was truly the only one which obviously I’m not since you actually see those specs from often to rare.

Lifestealer.4910:

Sagat.3285:

Lifestealer.4910:

I am all for nerfing thieves into the ground by giving everyone stealth reveals. This class has dominated the meta for 2 years now, so its time for them to take a back seat for the next two years.

It seems all classes will 1 skill that reveals even thief but that doesn’t mean it’s nerfed to the ground it diversity for other classes unless you’re part of the community that panics when you see stealth. When you’re downed even with that skill the thief will get your tears.

All in all the thief changes might make you take back those words. It’s not like we are immobile when revealed and cannot evade or escape and come back eh?

To clarify, i did not say such changes will nerf thieves to the ground, but i hope that they do get nerfed into the ground as this class is completely toxic to the game and have been reducing the amount of viable dps spec in pvp for years now. I am sure many people would also agree that fighting a thief is just anti fun even if you do manage to beat one.

This discussion is not healthy for this thread but in case you didn’t know thief is the victim or the game’s toxic being shut down to certain build is pretty bad. Those changes might encourage most thieves to switch to a s/d domination not me but possibly +90% of the users having a single build and that doesn’t sound fishy to you.

D/P and D/D are meh the only thieves I consider a threat are P/D condi if good and S/D Acro I don’t know about you but the other specs don’t seem like much to me but maybe with change P/P might be viable.

At least war can go Hambow,celestial,glass runner,condi or shout condi but nah thief got to have 2 and half viable builds.

@ Kemsuffin.1450 Some people like me find AI attractive and spirit weapons are pretty unique which make it even more interesting

@Aza I’m just following the pattern of changes for ranger and engi so yeah guess untill proven also the guardian skill that might get revealed ability thinking Ray of Judgement

tom.7468:

Its already impossible to kill condi engineers. How about they make it so whenever a theif get hit from incendiary ammo they get enchanted from the shadows and get 5x stronger. I came across 1 ranger that were impossible to kill tho was using some kind of regen condi bunker build and it was just everlasting.
How can this skill even have 1200 range ?? Our ONLY 1200 range skill got nerfed down to 900 which is so slow you can just sidestep out of it.
Its like they want ppl quit theif altogether. Or just force everyone to use s/d the only viable pvp build that is barely competitive. 2-3 lichform attacks and you’re down.

Use the engineer weakness conditions you can’t expect your build to kill everyone there should always be something that’s harder to defeat but for regen rangers just keep removing or stealing regen I don’t how burst thief deal with the tankiness but I usually end up winning after quite a long time.

Let’s all wait for our turn.

Ghostwolf.9863:

It’s drawing near !

Stop panicking resist the dark side because it’s future is unknowned as well.

Lifestealer.4910:

I am all for nerfing thieves into the ground by giving everyone stealth reveals. This class has dominated the meta for 2 years now, so its time for them to take a back seat for the next two years.

It seems all classes will 1 skill that reveals even thief but that doesn’t mean it’s nerfed to the ground it diversity for other classes unless you’re part of the community that panics when you see stealth. When you’re downed even with that skill the thief will get your tears.

All in all the thief changes might make you take back those words. It’s not like we are immobile when revealed and cannot evade or escape and come back eh?

Something is going to happen about spirit weapons and shield. Not sure about med or condition guard.

vincecontix.1264:

Nope be alarmed now 4secs is enough to get a thief killed esp if you have bunch of condi dumped on you b4 hand. Its mean in a group setting rangers (I) win button against thief’s just got better. Also means a terrible player can simplely press 1 button and get a good thief killed.

If well used yes but the best that could happen is to have an anti-revealed ability for thief or improvements of SA traits but seriously if ranger and engi are so happy maybe we will be too and maybe just maybe my guardian.

Sic Em and Analyze are instant cast but not radius effect 6 sec might be too much but it’s just 1 skill you should really wait until we see what’s coming to thief before alarming ourselves.