Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

/fifteencharacters

holychampion.7386:

Torch analysis and skills modifications have been posted before on the forum (Torch post)
The comunity reached the conclusion that to improve 5 its concept had to change.

You would no longer clear condis on allies but instead you’d clear BOONS from enemies thus keeping the concept of cleansing flame and granting torch more grace.

If it’s just 1 or 2 boon removal that wouldn’t be much of a change. If it’s too much well, it’ll kinda go against Guardian concept and will start entering the Mesmer realm.

I’m curious if a healing aspect should occur because at the same time, I don’t want our Torch to compete against Warrior’s – only want it to be different. Maybe a self heal for every condi cleansed. This way the Torch can fit Bunker, Condi or Dps builds. Torch dmges still don’t scale too well on power so that’ll probably need a slight buff (imo).

Ragion.2831:

Josh Davis.6015:

You’ll still be able to get the wings, even with the considerable league changes coming with Season 5.

lol trust anet to devalue a legendary item. I was hoping this one would be an exclusive too.

Hopefully we’ll have a double exclusive backpiece/shoulder piece later lol.

Yup I have to agree.

If the Torch received double the hit rate on Torch#5 it would see some more usages in pvp. It’s not even a solid pick for pve burn builds and that’s saying something.

I never liked how the cleanse effect worked but considering the self cleanses most classes have now, improving it wouldn’t make a huge difference.

It’s B2P.

You buy the GW2 core game, you play it.
You buy the GW2 expansion, you play it.
End of story.

Why are trolls bumping this thread?

This has been discussed before.

They had a large advertisement budged for adds, commercials, etc. They just stopped their advertisement campaigns and gave that extra budget to Proleagues. It’s technically still “marketing” because like you said, Proleagues can hit a different crowd of people who don’t normally play GW2.

As to whether or not to give this 200k for more content, well, I rather invest it back to marketing. It’s hard to lure in new crowds if they don’t know about the game.

Final thought, GW2 actually makes a lot of revenue believe it or not. They have enough funding to implement additional resources for content, features, etc. They don’t necessarily need 200k for more content.

PierPiero.9142:

which should be modified to tune down a little bit the effect of 2 or more guardian on a point ? I think that this is the real problem of dh and , for now , the only way is out rotating them but it is something not always simple to do playing in solo

It’s not that Guardians stack better on a single point, they really don’t, it’s the fact that there’s 2 classes who hard counters us while maybe 1 other class that soft counters us. Players are not going to swap off their mains to counter comp four soloQ guardians by swapping to 2 Revs, 2 Rangers and 1 Engi. It’s just not realistic in your average soloQ game.

Anet said they were going to better the matchmaking quality. We’ll see what they come up with.

They are, and they aren’t.

Engi, Rev, Ele, Ranger used to pwn DH in S2 and S3.
Now it’s
Rev, Ranger

We really only needed the QoL changes Anet gave us but they proceeded to nerf the other classes as well. It’s not that we’re OP, the balance trinity is very off.

If they were to nerf DH then they’d also would have to nerf Rev, Rangers, and Wars as well because as it stands, Rev/Ranger obliterates us while Warriors is a fairer matchup favoring Guardians just a hair.

At this point they need to buff/nerf a single class per season instead of trying to do every single class at once… it’s clear they don’t know how strong/weak a single profession is. Probably because they don’t main these professions competitively.

I’m sorry but they were really bad players going against their counter class who happens to be a proleague player.

A single Mesmer or Necro can get DH to 20%. The fact that 3 couldn’t do it is just sad.

Kuya.6495:

Hmmm, pve down state penalty in pvp might screw the necros in this meta.

Necro’s need a buff/changes anyways. They shouldn’t depend on 1 class to rez them whole match.

What really bothers me is how slow – inaccurate – the turning on the treb acts but that may be a coding/mechanical issue not easily fixed.

Just a thought, how about a mini-map (fire ball icon? Arrow icon?) Treb icon to ping the map to notify people I really want a treb to hit there.

Speaking of which, I would REALLY want a voice over, ping over, or text over that signifies,
“I don’t need your help!”
or
“Please rotate away!”
and/or
“I will cap!”

Bonus points,
I can’t win this fight!

Couldn’t tell you how many times I want people to stop 1v3ing an Engi at home, or wondering if our 1v1 will be won at home/far. It’s virtually impossible to communicate efficiently without comms in SoloQ. Treb changes are nice but I feel we need these functions as well.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

Listed in order of “Yas!” to “Meh..”
1. Cap the range at which someone can rally
(Doesn’t make sense that a player can rally off of some one from across the map. That said, the range should be reduced by 20%.)

2. Bring back PvE-downstate.
(The average Necro can rez 3 to 4 times, it’s quite ridiculous :p)

3 and 4 are “Meh..”

Ragnarox.9601:

Test of faith. no. Srry only trap that is good.
F3 shield nerf? srry no, average player can easily come behind DH and do some dmg.

Actually, this new ToF idea can easily be a buff for good players. I can now pull off combos with F1, Shield, and/or LB#3 knockback a whole lot quicker rather than limiting myself because of the cooldown on ToF’s crossing damages. I feel these combos are imperative for DH to be successful in any given fight. At the same time, most casual players are successful by just spamming traps blindly in lower tiers.

Ragnarox.9601:

They need to nerf class stacking. Max of 2 per each class.

DH was out for 2 seasons (and maybe 1st too). One buff to sword and all crying NERF NERF. So traps were ok for 3 seasons?

I definitely agree with limiting class stacking but the OP has a strong point and his suggestions are in the right direction compared to others who have no idea why DH is stronger by 3 buffs, and think everything needs nerfing. What is true, trap’s positioning needs more thought behind them rather than casting them at random.

We’re nearing the point of the month where players grinded their 300+ games to reach Legendary so, ya.

Anet said they’ll try making Legendary Division tougher to reach, so the division position is more deserved. Glad they’ll make an effort to do so.

Fourth.1567:

it was overall a mistake to take this approach at least from the PvP side of things. The best approach would be for expansion content to be free in the Mists while the rest of the game is locked until you purchase the expansion.

That’s the best approach for players who want more content without spending money. The PvP game is already free, why should Anet deliver more free stuffs?

Players need to think of the HoT expansion as increasing their level to 90. Buy HoT and you’ll metaphorically be a level 90 compared to the rest. This is the same as every other mmorpg expansion and it’ll likely never change.

TheDevice.2751:

Saiyan.1704:

Aktium.9506:

TheDevice.2751:

They’ve actually completely denied then an entire damage path. if you play necro, you have to play conditions.

As someone who played power necro from launch to HoT launch I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and point out that power necro is a more viable build for necro than burn builds are for guardian.

I don’t think comparing a subpar build with another is a proper argument here.

Ele have been a support class for a very long time. Same for Hambow Warriors and Bunker Guards way back when. Pretty much every profession have been limited to 1 play style. Every profession has been treated the same. It’s just how the meta is at the moment.

Just straight up lies. Like blatant lies. Every other class has viable if not somewhat viable builds besides their most popular.

Burn guards are still a thing and people keep making this joke like they are not viable and its one of the most disingenuous thing ive ever heard. Its people who make excuses for anet who’ve made this game one of the least successful esports game in esports history.

You’re basing the viability of burn guard against the most broken meta builds gaurd has which is just a false representation of their viability. Nobody really plays burn guard because you dont need to anymore.

Not lies. “Viable” is subjective and base on who you’re playing with as well as against.

Can you play burn guard all the way to legendary? Ya probably, some guards have. In ESL? I wouldn’t call that a viable build.

Aktium.9506:

TheDevice.2751:

They’ve actually completely denied then an entire damage path. if you play necro, you have to play conditions.

As someone who played power necro from launch to HoT launch I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and point out that power necro is a more viable build for necro than burn builds are for guardian.

I don’t think comparing a subpar build with another is a proper argument here.

Ele have been a support class for a very long time. Same for Hambow Warriors and Bunker Guards way back when. Pretty much every profession have been limited to 1 play style. Every profession has been treated the same. It’s just how the meta is at the moment.

Though warrented considering the amount of unblockable skills now, first thing about DH that I didn’t like was F3. I didn’t say anything because these mechanics were already set in stone during beta and we really needed F3 to survive the HoT power creep.

I truly hope Devs realize how much we disklike passives because that’s what it all boils down to.

Every single class have 10 passive procs, either through traits, weapons or abilities. LB#3 is one of the only skillshot skills in the game and it’s sad there isn’t more.

R O C.6574:

Phil.8901:

R O C.6574:

R O C.6574:

When the other team’s lowest scoring player has more points then our top scoring player, and we still win the match XD

Here’s a match i had the other day. Perfect example:

Well, yes, it’s pretty evident they zerged the entire game creating too much overnumbered fights (like 3 vs 1) or zerging people far from nodes.

They rotated in a terrible way to lose a game like this.

It would be nice to see game stats for all players, it might tell more of the story. We definitely out-rotated them, but is there a way to score that?

Actually, governing how a team was out-rotated is possible by measuring respawn times, as well as, how many players are on the map alive.

• Say a player gets stomped out and will respawn in 15s.
• Game realizes blue team now has 4 men on the field.
• Player respawn – the game calculates approximately 12-15s until he engages a node or player.
• If another player in that time frame gets stomped out, the game realizes that team is out-rotated.

That’s a rough example of how the game, through the ussage of stomp times, (essentially determining where players are on map) could see how bad a team is out-rotated.

Even if Anet can determine which team was overall more out-rotated than another, how do we make use of the data?

What’s going to kill Revs then. A 1v2?

Weeabeast.3742:

I’m a new gen so I obv don’t know too much but in terms of PvP fundamentals from what I’ve seen in the past this game was alot more burst dmg with quicker kills.

Man, I really missed the burst, fast paced version of the game. To bad the majority “[didn’t] have the reaction time” so Devs removed it due to “unhealthy gameplay.”

I wish every skill in the game was like DH LB#3, a skill-shot. Moba MMORPG…that will be the day.

B2W or B2P, what ever the term you want to use, is what every MMORPG expansion game is. WoW, Aion, etc. GW2 is no different so why are players concerned?

Except you can technically still win games with certain core builds, it’s just not as efficient.
/thread

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

Finally fought a good Engi, Skittledness.5106 on Never Lucky.

A good (I emphasis the word) Engi can beat symbol DH but it’s a soft counter rather than hard counter. The two will sustain for days before Engi tops DH, unless he misses a footing and gets both pushed + pulled inside ToF.

I wouldn’t call it a bad scenario having the two fight on point, especially if the DH can bunk Engi off for a possible neutral node, but it’s not exactly favorable for DH if fight drags on which it will if the Engi is any good.

Thanks for the duels Skittled.

Can you post your build and his? If we’re talking about point contesting or holding, I don’t think the meta Scrapper has a chance versus a Symbolic Dragonhunter when we’re talking about a small point. I decapped then full-capped Chaith’s home point on Forest of Niflhel while in a 1v1 with him the entire time before he decided to leave when his Self-Regulating Defenses proc’d right before the match ended. I was running this build.

Same build exception i’m Pack and Mara. I don’t know what build he was running, assumed it was meta.

The duel was in foefire’s mid area so he had the kite advantage. Didn’t duel him on side node but DH will definitely neutral the point if the node is theirs. I’ll probably duel him again for science because tbh I just came home after a 12hr shift yesterday.

Finally fought a good Engi, Skittledness.5106 on Never Lucky.

A good (I emphasis the word) Engi can beat symbol DH but it’s a soft counter rather than hard counter. The two will sustain for days before Engi tops DH, unless he misses a footing and gets both pushed + pulled inside ToF.

I wouldn’t call it a bad scenario having the two fight on point, especially if the DH can bunk Engi off for a possible neutral node, but it’s not exactly favorable for DH if fight drags on which it will if the Engi is any good.

Thanks for the duels Skittled.

Tatsuya.9071:

I think you just salty cause you lost to a PP engi, kratoast who was using impact strike with fistfury and mango possibly the worst ranger NA.

I didn’t lose to a PP Engi. I almost won vs PP Engi and Thieve in a 1v2. Maybe better Guardians would have won the 1v2, maybe not. Who cares, stop derailing the thread.

tichorum.2415:

Saiyan.1704:

tichorum.2415:

Sure, it may not be the biggest counter, it was a bit of exaggeration I suppose.

That’s just it, I don’t think Engi beats DH at all in fact, I believe the exact opposite so I had to challenge your claim.

If best Engi NA said Engi > DH i’d take it with a grain of salt because like you said, 9/10 he’d win vs any DH player. But if players like booMs and/or Naru came on and said Engi most definitely beats DH then i’d be inclined to agree but still have to challenge said Engi to a duel, for science.

Either ways I sense dueling in my near future, if anyone here plays a good Engi and thinks the latter is true.

You challenged my claim. Now what. I don’t understand this post lol.

I’m not challenging your claim just to do it. It’s out of principle and learning purposes.

I’m not trying to blow this thread out of proportion, nor am I deliberately attacking commentators here. I just wanted to know if Scraps can pwn a DH because if that’s the case then I have a lot to learn in the pro leagues.

Skittledness.5106:

I’ll 1v1 you bois if you need scrapper duels,I beat kitten all the time on engi and he’s “best guard NA”

Yes would love to duel! I’ll add and message you in game.

tichorum.2415:

Sure, it may not be the biggest counter, it was a bit of exaggeration I suppose.

That’s just it, I don’t think Engi beats DH at all in fact, I believe the exact opposite so I had to challenge your claim.

If best Engi NA said Engi > DH i’d take it with a grain of salt because like you said, 9/10 he’d win vs any DH player. But if players like booMs and/or Naru came on and said Engi most definitely beats DH then i’d be inclined to agree but still have to challenge said Engi to a duel, for science.

Either ways I sense dueling in my near future, if anyone here plays a good Engi and thinks the latter is true.

Add channel to F3? Sure, just give us Warrior regen heals during it.

Actually, Warriors has everything to gain because being a Warrior means that everyone is against time as Wars keep getting stronger.

Lower the 2day long cd on F3 in addition to having Warrior like healing.

There we go.

A comment from Storms from the AG tournaments, he said the following,

“They have a Guardian in a 1v1 against an Engi right now. Possibly the worse match for the Guardian”.

Engi isn’t the worse match vs Guardian but that’s besides the point. I genuinely want further insight on DH vs Scrapper match up because.. in 300 Ranked games, I only met 1 Scrap who consistently beat me twice and that’s because I didn’t figure out he was Zerks until second duel when he bursted me at half health :p

I tried dueling a few Scrappers tonight but that didn’t exactly go well for them. Not to call anyone out but I really would like to duel more Scraps if anyone’s interested.

Can anyone else offer insight; does DH genuinely have an advantage or does Storms have a point here?

Darknicrofia.2604:

you don’t, the only build that can sustain or decap a scrapper is mender’s symbolic

Do you or anyone else run a good Scrap and like to duel? Only fought 1 good scrapper whole season so as much as I want to give input, i’d be bias.

GW2 is 4 years old. So just because there’s a game with better tech capable of showing off classes, looks, etc doesn’t mean Anet has to spend huge resources to implememt said tech in their games. In most cases it’s not even realistically feesable; it’s not the same game engine nor would it improve GW2 any.

It’ll be an obvious copy of another game and that always a negative connotation in video games.

Jourdelune.7456:

Great analysis.

Note: When the MM put 2 or more same class, the MMR of the team become higher.

So, the 3 or 4 guard team, would mean they need a team with higher MMR but don’t have enough player to make it, so it artificially raise it by stacking the same FoTM classes.

Source:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Wow. I knew that matchmaking would increase the mmr of a duo+ comp teams but I didn’t know that matchmaking did the same for SoloQ players for the sake of following the mmr process. Matchmaking is deliberately stacking solo player classes together to increase overall team mmr. That’s not right.

Finally… sheesh. Tier 7 Diamond might as well have been Legendary division for me, considering the trouble I had just passing it. Took 3 days approx 4 hour each… ya i know.

-Statistics-
Highest win streak 11 (Streak started in Diamond Tier 2 and got me to Tier 6)
Highest lose streak 5 (tbh I have no idea but that sounds like a good number)
W/L ratio 60% before Diamond Tier6.
W/L ratio 54% past Tier 7 to Legendary (highly believe my win streak altered my mmr, making progression exceedingly difficult in T6 and T7.)

-Matchmaking-
They indeed have a 50% w/l system in place but this type of matchmaking algorithm took a step back compared to season 3. For the sake of removing outliers, lets disregard the surplus Guardian users & lack of Ele users and pretend that class stacking didn’t exist. Skip over the below spoiler.

What’s a step back from S3 is the MM pvp experience worsened by a lot as we progressed through the Divisions. I felt High mmr players were deliberately placed with Low mmr players in matchmaking’s 50% w/l algorithm attempt. This has been a bad soloQ player experience in general. Having similar mmr averages among teams, did not matter as much as how the class compositions were placed & how low mmr players reacted to said comp.
Example:
The numbers below represent a rough representation of player MMR.
Team1: Elementalist(10), Thief(8), Revenant(8), Ranger(7),Guard(5),*
Team 2: Engineer(10), Mesmer(8), War(8), Necro(7), Revenant(5),

What you will notice right away is,
lvl 5 Guard can get soft countered by lvl 5 rev.
lvl 8 Rev and lvl 7 Ranger can both get soft countered by lvl 8 Mes, War and Necro. This alone makes for huge disadvantage.
That lvl 5 Guard could also get countered if War is a rifle warrior that knows how to focus target.

Now, team 2 obviously have fewer weaknesses in comparison but matchmaking doesn’t notice any of these items. It just sees numbers on a person, disregarding their class type unless there’s multiple class types of the same mmr number for matchmaking to evenly place on a team. So these outlier errors in the algorithm are causing certain extremes in games and should be addressed.

mrauls.6519:

Use traveler runes!!!!

Lol Mes XD

Keksmuffin.1450:

TheNickPrice.8457:

Edit: I have every pvp title including champ brawler (exception of champ phantom, have always disliked necro play) Legend every season (doesn’t mean much) was r-70 before that silly April patch. Just some background, for future “you’re just noob” comment, judging by your previous posts.

Cool.

http://play.eslgaming.com/player/8036968/

This is pure soloQ bro. Not sure what point you’re attempting here. Every single person in that picture consistently played with amongst friends.

I’ll get there before the season’s up.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Pro league are fixed teams with scheduled matches. That’s nothing like ranked.

So what? Doesn’t change the fact that classes are not balanced around stacking on same team but it happens every match which leads to one of the teams having huge advantage because balancing team constantly makes poor design choices.

Hell ya, i would rather sit in longer queues (already sit in 1 hour so w/e) than end up with 3 thieves on team, get harassed for playing one and have teammates afk because “match is lost gg” before match even started. IT HAPPENS A LOT.

Then request that Anet add a toggle for those who prefer there to be no class stacking to get matches just like that. It’s unfair to force everyone to sit through longer queues just because some people have decided to take issue with class stacking as if that will magically fix the actual problem.

Assuming it’ll bring a negative effect like higher queue times, will just limit some one’s ability to get it done.

Played very little of S1’s cancer bunker meta but S2 and S3, I hit Diamond with a 60% win rate which was respectable for pure SoloQ standards. I had little to no issues in the previous divisions. But that Diamond League… that last couple of tiers, brought tears, as it tares the bliss in my heart

I ended S2 & S3 with a 50% ratio, give or take but it wasn’t a spread of wins and losses between the Tiers… it was Tier 7. Every single season, I float in the last two tiers as if I hit a brick wall. Like I found my “division” and matchmaking was content with my position. Now in S4, between Tier6 and Tier 7 alone… I played 30 games and haven’t budged a bit. I’m still in Tier 7. Closes I’ve gotten was of course 1 game away from Legendary.

Wish I could say I was playing badly or that I was burnt out, but S2 & S3 were the exact same. Heck, I even got on an 11 win streak until Tier 6! I haven’t even done that in S2 and S3 in upper Diamond but Tier 7… that God forsaken tier, hast brought evil upon thy window.

Sincerely,

Two Rangers… my God they’re so OP.

Dream Team: 2 Rangers, Rev, DH, Thief

These classes together (notoriously rangers) will survive point so long, thief can basically act like a shot gun, waiting off point till some one’s half health or low cds for him to roam and 1shot. He doesn’t even need to stay on point.. just got to burst at the right time. Decaps are a huge bonus and a tide turner.

They have so much initial focus’d dps+cc that they’ll demolish Necros, Mesmers and Wars who supposedly counter Rev & Rangers. You would have to stack one or two of these three classes just to counter comp the above team. (I hear condi engi does ok).

Velimere.7685:

Supreme.3164:

Velimere.7685:

Saiyan.1704:

Velimere.7685:

Tissitra.4153:

I am not sure about the dps numbers as those are more difficult to count due to boons/crits, but I highly doubt that either thief or power ele do a lot more damage than meta DH.

Look, this is Symbolic Dragonhunter using Paladin’s Amulet. These numbers are fine.

390k damage taken? That tells me you either had minionmancers, Engi+Gyros and/or mesmers on the other team and neither of them knew how to focus target.

1 mil is not a realistic representation of DH. I’ve hit that prepatch with hammer. In an even skill floor match, we’d be lucky to break 450k.

I currently average over 700,000 total damage in Legendary matches playing that build.

That screenshot is from one of my matches in Diamond.

It seems pretty realistic enough for me.

You received over 300k dmg and done over 1m dmg…basically your match was nothing more than a hotjoin brawl which indicates the quality of the league system in this game

You have one gap closer and few other means to get close, the sword teleport is the only one that can reliably get close to a decent player

That much dmg tells me that you were playing against scrubs who were making a tea party inside the symbols

What can I say? The build excels on small point maps such as the one in my screenshot. It’s kind of hard not to get hit by said symbols when they cover over 90% of a point. Also, I’m using Rune of the Traveler, so while mobility may be the worst, it’s still not terrible.

You’ve never fought a good rev/thief/guard/ranger who knows to cc during your F3, or an unblockable rifle War who knows how to 6k unblockable cancer you in team fights, or that Thief who actually knows to +1 you on side nodes because he actually sees you across map and waits till you have half health, or Rangers who kitten s DH 1v1 like no body’s business.

Went on an 11 win streak and reached Tier7 Diamond the other day, and now I hit a brick wall thanks to MM who thinks 1 high mmr class can carry nubsticle players. I’m not saying you’re not any good. I’m saying you’re playing with players who simply aren’t giving you any comp.

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

We’ve had quite a few “skill based” systems but they all evolved around win percentages. The higher it was, the higher your mmr was. Same for the players you were with.
…

Sorry, it was much more complex than based on win ratio.

I was at 125 rank on the leaderboard and since I was into a casual pvp guild at first, my win ratio wasn’t higher than people rank at 500 or even 95% under.

Win ratio did help tons with a small subset of games, like in 2013. But they fixed that in 2014 to make sure players that only play 20 games (20 win, 0 lost) don’t get rated in the top 100 rank. (even if those account did beat top 100 rank players, usually another account bought by a top 100 guy)

Oh right I forgotten about that system too. But that system emphasized grinding to the point where any consistent player can be top 15. Now, they indeed incorporated win-ratio towards the end but it still had huge flaws.

I’m curious how they’ll add a more Skill base approach to Leagues but that’s not the challenging part. The question is whether or not Anet can make – say Emerald – “rewarding” enough for players to keep playing through it.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

So SoloQ-people will be forever stuck in Amber or Emerald, except the few SoloQ gods? Even if you get more reward per match for getting stuck, i rather not play pvp at all, then get stuck in Emerald.

….
-SNIP-

Please, spare us your “I can’t handle competitive gameplay” concerns because you obviously never played SCII, LoL, CoD or any other competitive game with a League system.

Everything Grouch said sounds like a SC2 type system and if it’s anywhere near how I imagine it could be, it’ll be marvelous.

Velimere.7685:

Tissitra.4153:

I am not sure about the dps numbers as those are more difficult to count due to boons/crits, but I highly doubt that either thief or power ele do a lot more damage than meta DH.

Look, this is Symbolic Dragonhunter using Paladin’s Amulet. These numbers are fine.

390k damage taken? That tells me you either had minionmancers, Engi+Gyros and/or mesmers on the other team and neither of them knew how to focus target.

1 mil is not a realistic representation of DH. I’ve hit that prepatch with hammer. In an even skill floor match, we’d be lucky to break 450k.

Koru.8574:

so i just want to set the facts straight, you want to make matchmaking/matchups better even if it means increasing the que times seeing as it is already long as it is and you are blaming players for wanting to class stack as bad matchmaking/matchups…did i get everything?

You didn’t get a single item but i’ll help you out.

I never said I wanted to replace queue times for fairer matchmaking I simply said it needs to be smarter and it can be done without the increased queue times by-product of a system.

Also, I never blamed a single person for class stacking. This is completely directed towards MM. Hope that clears things up.

Koru.8574:

Saiyan.1704:

The best of Matchmaking S4.

Red Team
2duo, +1 +1 +1
Blue Team
2 duo, +1 +1 +1
Final Score: won by 300 pnts

No One swapped to DH.
No One swapped to Necros.
This is how matchmaking placed these teams because matchmaking didn’t know how to split these players efficiently.

There was indeed 1 very low mmr player on our team that could have skewed the results but when it comes to matchmaking like this (dh > necro so why place 2 on other team?) there’s just no excuses, matchmaking needs to get better.

Yes we know DH is flavor of the month especially after nerfs from other classes but matchmaking CAN be smarter allocating players between Red and Blue.

lol i was on your team saiyan…i was the guy that typed out “FULL FORCE” in map chat…i swapped to guardian cuz i thought it be funny stacking traps on traps..dont blame matchmakin for ridiculous matchups jus because u load in last or dont realize the switch,,smh @ ppl who always blame matchmaking first.

So that makes it ok? smh.

The best of Matchmaking S4.

Red Team
2duo, +1 +1 +1
Blue Team
2 duo, +1 +1 +1
Final Score: won by 300 pnts

No One swapped to DH.
No One swapped to Necros.
This is how matchmaking placed these teams because matchmaking didn’t know how to split these players efficiently.

There was indeed 1 very low mmr player on our team that could have skewed the results but when it comes to matchmaking like this (dh > necro so why place 2 on other team?) there’s just no excuses, matchmaking needs to get better.

Yes we know DH is flavor of the month especially after nerfs from other classes but matchmaking CAN be smarter allocating players between Red and Blue.

sinject.4607:

Comprehensively, all I’m asking for is:

• a 10% damage nerf to S/F + Sc/Sh symbols.
• a rework to DH traps to reduce the effectiveness of trap overlapping, in a way that doesn’t affect their 1v1 effectiveness.
• a decent shave to Purification to bring it in line with Shelter.

You’ve already agreed the first two nerfs are necessary. I’m just trying to prove that Purification needs a shave too, and I think I’ve done that.

Balance, as you stated, is about all professions; and yet you keep acting like having only Druid/Herald being able to beat DH is balanced. I just don’t get it.

I never said Druid/Herald was all that we needed but I agree with the rest to an extent.

I’m curious how the Devs will address overall class balances. A mechanical rework isn’t Anet’s typical go-to when addressing balances but they’ve surprised me before.

sinject.4607:

Saiyan.1704:

sinject.4607:

Saiyan.1704:

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.

There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.

sinject.4607:

you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.

still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.

I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.

Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?

i’m just gonna ignore the first part of your post because you’re essentially saying DH being balanced is dependent on Tempest/Scrapper being overpowered. i dunno how many times i have to repeat myself but this is the worst argument you can come up with. they literally brought one mechanic that countered one weaponset DHs don’t even use anymore, we are completely beyond this. the only other way this can be interpreted is you asking for only Tempest/Scrapper being able to beat DH which is probably even worse.

and for your second part…

there is literally no other HoT heal in the game that is that is 2x better than their core counterpart.

the majority of professions still use core heals.

anyways, I’m happy we’ve reached the point where you have to lie and recycle tired disproven arguments to defend your profession because this exemplifies just how intellectually bankrupt any defense of DH ends up being. You can keep saying “that’s besides the point” but that doesn’t actually make it true. Sorry.

I don’t play other classes so that was my mistake there.

As for everything else… I’m telling you facts while you’re just labeling random items on DH being OP because you seem to think so.. that’s your fallacy.

So these are facts.
1. Engi and Ele used to give Guardians a hard time in S2 and S3. Now they don’t.
2. We were only slightly buffed in dps while our heals & traps remained the same.

Comps such as Ranger, Rev, Ele, Engi obliterated us. Now it’s just Rev & Ranger. That means we have more freedom in SPvP. These are facts, not presumed opinions.

Balance is dependent on every single class not just 1. – my presumed opinion based on these facts.

It’s not hard to comprehend but you still seem mindset on removing our Heals, Aegis or Trap damages when these weren’t S2 and S3 issues…. it’s a class balancing issue and right now, things are not fine in the Rock, Paper Scissors spectrum.

We can argue about this all day because the only thing we agree on is Passive Wars 2 and PugStomper build types. They should be removed but that’s never going to happen.

P.S
Burn Burst Guardians can get away with Litany of Wrath while some downright prefer Shelter’s aoe block. Maybe everyone else’s build diversity is worse than DH but that’s their own class diversity issue.

Deagle.7531:

if anet thinking will not fix dh, my suggestion for them add a class stacking debuff. if a team play with 2 dh, dh’s needs to get a damage reduce debuff. (exept core specs.)

Absolutely terrible idea. If you’re going to that extreme Anet should simply prevent class stacking just like their Tournament rulings.

Besides, I’ve frequently won with two thieves on my team, beating two DH’s on the other team. Stacked DH are not as OP as people make them out to be… you just got to play smart while having the right comp but I guess that’s too mainstream.

We typically don’t have issues with condi clears. In fact, almost every other class will die first on point than DH.

Your suggestion would be a huge nerf.

Ohoni.6057:

I disagree. There should definitely be more PvP rewards specifically items like the backpiece. I really hope they start incorporating weapon sets, mini’s, and other armor pieces too.

So long as they are either exclusive to the Mists, or people can earn them through other modes. Peopel who don’t like PvP should not have to play PvP just because they want to have a certain weapon or armor skin. They should have options.

I legitimately don’t like PvE and wish there were other ways to obtain Legendary but that’s my own wishful thinking. Yet, players want their Legendary backpiece on a platter for some reason.

Edit
I read your posts from a previous thead. I’d be totally fine with every Legendary being obtainable in PvP amd vice versa, PvE receiving PvP items. That said, things will no longer be exclusive and I very much like to show off my PvP rewards too.